- 3 hours ago
In an exclusive interview with India Today, Shiv Sena (UBT) leader Aaditya Thackeray addressed the ongoing political crisis in his party and recent defections by their leaders in Maharashtra.
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00:00And joining me now is the gen next of the Shiv Sena, the Shiv Sena UBT leader Aditya Thakre.
00:06I'm interviewing you at a time when there is a sense that is the Shiv Sena facing an existential crisis,
00:12a crisis of survival. Will the Shiv Sena survive?
00:15Even close aides of yours like Sachin Ahir have now left.
00:18Do you get a sense that your party is facing this massive existential crisis?
00:23Rajivji, I think it's not about survival. We will thrive.
00:27The question is, the people of this country are now wondering what they have voted the BJP for.
00:33If the BJP that for the last two decades has spoken about the Ram Temple, I've spoken about Hindutva,
00:37they've virtually campaigned on it, they've created riots everywhere,
00:41they've tried to polarize people across the country and parties like us supported the BJP only for Hindutva
00:46and for the Ram Temple. Now we are shocked.
00:48Because you are part of the Ram Temple movement.
00:50My grandfather, my grandfather showed...
00:51You openly said that I am proud of the Shiv Sena who went above and brought down the dome.
00:56No, no, Rajivji, not just that. My grandfather showed them what Hindutva is.
01:00In 2018, when the BJP had forgotten Ram Temple, we had gone there and said,
01:03pehle mandir, fir sarkar. That's when the BJP remembered.
01:06Then the Ram Temple was made thanks to the decision of the Supreme Court, not the BJP.
01:10Our party gave a donation to the Temple Trust back then and a silver brick too.
01:14We have been a stakeholder in this whole temple of faith and now our faith is shaken by the BJP
01:20because you start reading about the scams that the BJP-appointed people in that trust have started indulging in.
01:26On the other hand, if you look at one of the other holiest cities in India, Ujjain,
01:30the CM himself is looting those lands. They are plundering like the Mughals.
01:34So then what is the difference between the BJP and the Mughals?
01:38I mean, we've just recriced in them as Babar Janata Party. But the point is this.
01:42That is not about politics. This is about BJP's principled corrupt nature,
01:49which is about, you know, the principles are only about corruption and breaking parties, nothing else.
01:53No, you're targeting the BJP for what has happened at the Ram Mandir.
01:57The BJP will say, look, we are not responsible for the trust.
02:02The trust was being run autonomously.
02:05Aditya Thakre and the Thakre Parivar should be more worried about what is happening to the Shiv Sena.
02:10Why are loyalists of Aditya Thakre leaving the party instead of targeting us?
02:15Worry about your own house.
02:17Worrying about our own house or own stature is a very BJP perception or perspective.
02:21We are worried about the Ram Temple because it is the BJP that appointed the trustees.
02:25It is the BJP that celebrated the Ram Temple almost as if they gave the decision to make the Ram
02:29Temple
02:30whereas it was the Supreme Court.
02:31We are worried about our country, we are worried about our faith and we are worried about the faith of
02:35a billion Indians.
02:36It's not just about us.
02:37We are collateral damage in Operation Devendra Fadnavis.
02:40What is, no, no, one minute, one minute.
02:42You are collateral damage in Operation, collateral damage for Operation Devendra Fadnavis?
02:47Absolutely.
02:48How is Devendra Fadnavis responsible for what's happening in the Shiv Sena?
02:51Simple thing.
02:53There is an internal debate about who will be the next Prime Minister in the BJP.
02:56One of the faces is Mr. Devendra Fadnavis, which has been, you know, discussed about for almost five, six years
03:03now.
03:03I think what is very important to notice here is every person who has been a potential rival to the
03:09top post has been cut down by someone.
03:11Look at Nitin Gadkari.
03:13When he was about to be the President of the BJP for the third time, his things came out.
03:18Poorti and other things.
03:19Today, if you see, he's been driven into this whole ethanol controversy.
03:22His Saiyan Agro, all of that is coming out.
03:25Mr. Shivrat Singh Chawan, a fantastic Chief Minister who was accepted and loved by the people of Madhya Pradesh,
03:29was unanimously elected as the Chief Minister by the people of Madhya Pradesh,
03:33taken away, put into the Union Cabinet.
03:34Now, here, it's Eknath Shinde who wants to remove Mr. Fadnavis from his post so that he's doing the job
03:40or the hit job for someone else in the BJP at the centre
03:43so that Mr. Fadnavis is no longer a contender for the top post.
03:46These are conspiracy theories now.
03:47You know, you're putting out conspiracy theory that Eknath Shinde on someone's instruction has taken a supari to break the
03:56Shiv Sena UBT
03:57so that Devendra Fadnavis is cut down to size in some way and Eknath Shinde can become the Chief Minister
04:03of Maharashtra once again
04:04and Mr. Fadnavis also loses out on the Prime Minister's stakes.
04:08Now, surely, you know, that's a conspiracy theory.
04:12The flip side is the Shiv Sena needs to introspect.
04:15You need to ensure that you have the kind of leadership that people will be attracted to, that they will
04:20stay with.
04:21Do you agree with that?
04:22Will there be no introspection?
04:23Will it always be BJP is responsible for whatever is happening in the Shiv Sena?
04:27It's not a conspiracy theory.
04:29It is a plain fact that this is Operation Devendra Fadnavis.
04:32You mark my words, this may be the last session of Mr. Devendra Fadnavis as the Chief Minister of Maharashtra.
04:39The present monsoon session.
04:40Yes. And he will be pulled into the Union Cabinet and given a ministry which looks plumb right now
04:45but later on he'll realise that his wings are chopped.
04:48And he knows this. He too knows this.
04:50Look at his body language, look at his aura, look at his demeanour right now.
04:53It's very different from what he was in 2024.
04:56You see, it's very interesting because when the Shiv Sena was broken, what, 2022?
05:012022 when Eknath Shinde left along with a number of MLAs, you called it Khoke Ki Rajneeti.
05:06That it was straight money power.
05:08That was at work.
05:09People were leaving the Shiv Sena because they had either ED cases or IT cases against them
05:14or because money was being offered to them.
05:16Now you're coming up with a new theory that it's Operation Devendra Fadnavis.
05:19It seems that the Shiv Sena both in 2022 and now in 2026 is not willing to look inwards.
05:25You believe all the problems of the Shiv Sena outward because when I speak to some of the MLAs who
05:29are leaving,
05:30they say we don't have access to Aditya Thakre or Uddav Thakre or we don't get development funds from the
05:36government.
05:36Therefore, we have to leave.
05:37They don't mention any of what you're saying.
05:39Of course, nobody's going to agree that they've taken money to switch sides.
05:43But they completely deny all of this.
05:46See, Rajivji, again, let me reiterate that this is Operation Devendra Fadnavis
05:50and all introspection and going deeper and deeper,
05:52you start realizing what the deeper conspiracy is or deeper mechanism is.
05:57About not meeting.
05:58Fine, okay, take it for a moment that I don't meet.
06:01Firstly, no MLAs have left.
06:02But chalo, take it for a minute that I haven't met any of our MPs.
06:06MPs.
06:06Right?
06:07Has Ms. Mamata Banerjee not met any of our MPs?
06:11Has Mr. Kejriwal not met his MPs?
06:14This is the same script given to everyone across the country in different ways and different formats
06:19that they are supposed to read, if not on a teleprompter, in their own chits and speak out.
06:25Is it believable even for a second that a mainstream politician who's been working in this field for the last
06:3015 years
06:30will not end up meeting his own MP or MLA?
06:34And like you said rightfully, how will you accept that you've taken money and you've gone for that?
06:38No, so what according to you is the main reason why they are leaving?
06:42There must be some reason why whether it's TMC, whether it's Aam Admi or whether it's Shiv Sena, MPs are
06:48leaving their parties.
06:49The main reason is this, that we were supposed to get justice in 2022 in an open and shut case
06:54about the 10th schedule of the constitution of India.
06:56Had we got that in time, this wouldn't be the case of India's democracy.
07:00Now wherever around the world you go, they mention India to be the largest former democracy in the world.
07:05That is the bigger problem.
07:06And we hope that this July, end of July that we have a hearing, we will get justice because like
07:11the current Chief Justice has said, you know, very openly that justice delayed is justice destroyed.
07:16That's what we're seeing in the case of our own case right now.
07:18So you want the anti-defection law to be completely changed?
07:21Do you believe for example...
07:22No, I want to implement it as it is.
07:24No, I'll tell you because Abhishek Manu Singhvi says that the law should add one line that the moment anyone,
07:29anyone leaves one party for another,
07:31he or she must step down and recontest an election.
07:34Do you agree with that?
07:35Do you believe that's the way forward that can have some kind of a deterrent effect on this constant defections
07:40going on?
07:41But that is the anti-defection law.
07:42That is exactly the anti-defection law that you've got to resign from your post, resign from the party, hop
07:46over and contest election.
07:48No, no, anti-defection law says that if two-thirds of the MPs or MLAs, if two-thirds of your
07:52legislature party leaves and if the political party endorses it,
07:55and if the political party endorses it, then that defection is legitimate.
07:59But then Rajivji, how is that defection?
08:01If the political party is going along with the two-thirds of your legislative majority, it's not defection.
08:07It's the whole party taking a decision.
08:09Defection is when you break away from the party and the party president and willfully go into another party.
08:14That is what I consider to be defection.
08:15If my political party is merging along with two-thirds of the legislative party, it is totally right on the
08:21party's actions.
08:24You know, as I said, you mentioned even in 2022, all of this is being done with money power.
08:31I mean, people are wondering, particularly in a state like Maharashtra, most of the MLAs are now in, or MPs
08:37are in Aya Ram, Gaya Ram.
08:39Whoever is in power, whoever is in power, it's not as if defection only started now.
08:43People have defected in the past also.
08:44Many of the MPs who have switched, also switched from other parties to the Shiv Sena, to your party.
08:49So, it's been going on for years.
08:51Aritya Thakre is only talking about it today.
08:53Aya Ram, Gaya Ram toh hai, but abhi Shri Ram ko bhi ye loot raha hai.
08:58Kisi Ram ko nahi chod raha hai, Ramlalla ko bhi loot raha hai, Bajappale.
09:01My point is this, that today, as a common citizen of this country, do you agree or accept the kind
09:06of dirty politics that is going on?
09:09Do you agree with or accept the kind of corruption that is going on?
09:12If you were an investor today, would you invest in Maharashtra with the kind of political instability and the one,
09:18you know, what do you call it, one upmanship that the DCM is trying over the Chief Minister?
09:23Would you be okay to survive as an investor or a common citizen in this state?
09:28You know, what many people say, particularly Mr. Fadnavis has said this also on record, that the real original sin,
09:37if I may call it the sin or defection, was when you, your party, your father broke away from the
09:42BJP in 2019 to join hands with the NCP and Congress.
09:45That was the original sin.
09:47Eknat Shinde also keeps saying that.
09:49And therefore, you don't have the moral right today to tell the BJP about sinful politics or about corrupt politics
09:55or about defection politics.
09:56Look, let me just remind you and remind Mr. Fadnavis that in 2014, it was the BJP that broke the
10:03alliance with us two days before the election of 2014.
10:07They broke away.
10:08We didn't break away.
10:09In 2019, it was the BJP that broke the promise and had the BJP followed the promise, it would have
10:14been that two and a half years at least, Mr. Fadnavis would have been CM and two and a half
10:17years, we would have been CM.
10:18What happened in 2019 to 2024?
10:20It was two and a half years, Mr. Uddhubaraj Sahib Thakkar, and two and a half years, you had some
10:23person called Fekhnath Minde becoming Chief Minister.
10:25Mr. Fadnavis of the BJP did not get the seat at all.
10:28Now, after breaking and committing the sin of breaking our party, what is happening?
10:32The same Mr. Minde who tried to damage our party and damage our family is now trying to take away
10:36Mr. Fadnavis' seat.
10:38So, the original sin committed was by the BJP of breaking away from us.
10:43They were the ones in 2014 of October who said that, okay, we cannot ally with you because we are
10:47forming a government on our own.
10:49And if you remember, Mr. Kharsi had come out in the open and said about that, spoken about that.
10:53Two final questions.
10:55One is dynastical politics and the fact that because your party or the TMC are seen to be family-run
11:00parties,
11:01you all have become more vulnerable to defection.
11:03That you all don't have any internal democracy and therefore a number of MPs or disgruntled leaders feel,
11:09let's move out because at least we might have greater freedom outside than we will have in parties like the
11:15Shiv Sena or the TMC.
11:16Do you agree that family-based party, the Prime Minister keeps saying that Pariwar Waad is what is destroying a
11:22party like the Shiv Sena?
11:23You can't rely, your grandfather may have been Bara Sahib Thakret.
11:26That doesn't mean the next generation has to accept you as their leader.
11:30Yeah, now we're thinking of, Abhishek and I will speak now and we'll think of giving ICC and BCC a
11:33shot.
11:34Which means?
11:36I mean, in terms of nepotism as it is famously called or dynastic politics, I think very importantly if you
11:41see...
11:42That's in cricket, you can't compare that to political parties.
11:43No, no, no, let me come to this.
11:45At least in the political party, you have to be accepted by the people, you have to be elected by
11:48the people.
11:48In cricket, you've been foisted onto the other clubs.
11:51My point is this only, that very simply, I'm very proud of my heritage.
11:56My legacy, my heritage, my family, I'm very, very proud of that.
11:59If the people have to accept me, they will accept me and for the last two elections, they have accepted
12:03me.
12:04The guys who are running away are not because of family politics.
12:06The guys who are running away are not because of dynasty.
12:08The guys are running away because A, they may have cases on them, EDIT-CBI, which we saw in the
12:12case of Ikna Chindi.
12:13Or, they're being offered money.
12:16Two, what is also very important is, if you look at the BJP and the number of dynasts they have.
12:22There's a huge load of dynasts that they have, much more than any other party in India.
12:27That's the baggage they're carrying and that's where the hypocrisy speaks out very loud.
12:31You keep saying, you know, many have left for money.
12:34You have no evidence of that.
12:35You have no proof of that.
12:36Last time you said, pannaas khoke ek dam oke.
12:39Raji Ji, I have evidence of that.
12:40Didn't you see Rajesh Shirsagar's video right now asking a contractor for money?
12:43It was on Mumbai, it was on all channels.
12:45Didn't you see Sanjay Shirsath sitting with a bag of money and smoking up right next to that?
12:49You saw that.
12:51Everyone.
12:51And just see the economic upliftment.
12:54Some of them have bought flats on the 70th floor, 80th floor.
12:57Someone's got a fancy car.
12:58Within those two months, how come a huge band of MLAs have seen upliftment economically and socially right after hopping
13:05over?
13:06My final question, are we entering therefore an age of opposition Mukt Bharat?
13:11Is that a real fear?
13:12I mean, the India alliance looks compared to 2024 in complete disarray.
13:17Your party has broken apart.
13:19TMC has broken about.
13:20Aam Admi party has broken apart.
13:22Congress has lost a series of elections.
13:24There's a sense that the India alliance in particular seems to be disintegrating.
13:30And ahead of 2029, could we be heading for an opposition Mukt Bharat?
13:34Rajivji, for more than us, it is for you as the voter and a citizen of this country to think
13:39about.
13:40When we look at the justice system and the speed that we are expecting justice in our country,
13:45especially with our case, with all due respect to the Supreme Court,
13:48or the political system and the kind of unprincipled, crazy politics and dirty politics you're seeing right now,
13:54is this healthy for a former democracy like ours?
13:58Is this worth investing in a country like ours?
14:02Is this worth the political instability that we're seeing?
14:05And as for disarray, don't worry, there is always a Thakre, we'll fight it out.
14:08You'll fight it out.
14:11You're very clear that this is not the end game for the Thakres.
14:16Never give up.
14:17Always fight because you're fighting a fight that is principled,
14:20you're fighting a fight that is truthful,
14:22and you're fighting a fight for the country, not for yourself.
14:24I want to ask you, you tweeted today about a tree that fell,
14:27in conclusion, tree that fell on a school bus,
14:30that resulted in the death of a young boy,
14:33and you mentioned that Mumbai itself is collapsing.
14:36Because there are two views.
14:37One is that Mumbai has built this infrastructure,
14:40coastal roads, metro trains,
14:42that's what Devendra Fatnavas is bringing to the table.
14:44You're bringing the other vision that Mumbai is collapsing,
14:47there are road scams.
14:48Is the truth somewhere in between?
14:50Between what you say and what the government of the day says?
14:54I think the truth is for all of you to see.
14:56Try going on the missing link of Mumbai-Poona right now.
14:58It's all bumpy and bousy.
15:00You feel like you're sitting in a boat, speedboat.
15:02Try going on Hinduru Samarit Barasav Thakre Samruddhi Mahamar,
15:04which is made by Feknad Minde.
15:06It's almost like you're riding the waves.
15:09There is no flat road, proper road.
15:11Look at the flyover that was recently inaugurated by the mayor.
15:17One person piked his bike and the bike stand went into the road.
15:21Even the tree that has fallen yesterday,
15:22we have been shouting ourselves hoarse for the last two or three months,
15:25saying pre-monsoon works haven't happened in Mumbai properly.
15:28This tree was a part of common sense when you concretize a road.
15:31You leave open space for the roots to hold ground.
15:33You can't concretize and choke a tree.
15:35This is what is going to happen.
15:36And not just one tree.
15:38Over the night, over the last night,
15:40you've had three or four incidents of tree fall.
15:42When will I see these issues that you just spoke about
15:46being discussed vigorously in the Maharashtra Assembly
15:48or Aditya Thakre, Devendra Fadnavi's Ekna Chinde
15:52coming on one platform to ensure, for example,
15:55that these are the real issues which require a concentrated debate.
16:01When will I ever see that?
16:02I've been tracking Maharashtra politics for 38 years.
16:05Now I see this kind of enmity between you and the other side
16:08where you will even not shake hands with each other.
16:11Is this the future of politics in general
16:13and Maharashtra in particular?
16:15No, no, I'll tell you what.
16:18Shaking hands with Mr. Fadnavis,
16:20of course, as Chief Minister and leader of the BJP,
16:23and maybe in his last monsoon session as the Chief Minister,
16:25all worthy of it.
16:26You call us for a debate here on policy.
16:27We're happy to do that.
16:28In the Assembly, we try.
16:30The BJP shouts us down.
16:31We shout at them back.
16:32All of that happens.
16:33Shaking hands with Pakitmarlek, Mindey is not possible
16:36because kya nikal jayega haat se ring kabhi...
16:39It's very, very personal.
16:40You and Eknar Chinde has become very, very personal
16:42because of the way he broke away.
16:44The man wants my face.
16:45The man wants my surname.
16:46The man wants my grandfather's name.
16:48He wants everything that we have.
16:50He doesn't have the courage to do politics on his own name
16:53or his father's name.
16:53He's trying to take everything of ours.
16:55Stand up as yourself.
16:56Have the courage.
16:57Grow up.
16:58No, no.
16:58Thakre belongs to all Shiv Senics,
17:00not just to the Thakre family.
17:01100%, but you can't just loot him
17:02and use him as a gullam of the BJP.
17:04You're being a slave of the BJP.
17:05But that aside, about policy,
17:07I'm very happy and I've always said that
17:09politics is all about policy.
17:11The assembly is all about policy making, law making,
17:14you know, and it is what we call the legislature.
17:17We legislate laws there.
17:19You call us for a debate on policy and keep aside,
17:21politics aside, we're happy.
17:23Let's do that.
17:24And I'm happy to wait right now if he's coming for policy.
17:26So, is Aditya Thakre therefore a bit of a misfit
17:29in this politics which has become about,
17:32you know, breaking and making parties?
17:34You want to talk about policy?
17:36You want to talk about climate change?
17:37Are you a bit of a misfit in today's politics?
17:40Have you thought that maybe I need to do something else?
17:42Or as you said in this interview,
17:44you're never going to give up?
17:45Never going to give up because misfits win eventually.
17:48And two, I think there's a lot of misfits like me
17:50across the country who are called cockroaches.
17:53But these are the same guys who do not like
17:55the dirty politics of now
17:56and they will vote for better politics.
17:58Interesting you use the word cockroach.
17:59Are you going to support what the cockroach
18:01Janata party is doing by raising issues
18:03like paper leaks?
18:04What they've raised is nothing wrong.
18:06They're asking for the resignation of Dharmedra Pradhan.
18:08I don't see anything wrong in that.
18:10Will you support them?
18:11I mean, if I don't see something wrong in that,
18:13on this issue,
18:14a lot of us are supporting what they're doing
18:17and a lot of us like the NSUI,
18:18the U.S.A.N.A.
18:19A lot of us are protesting on the same issue.
18:21Because it's very interesting,
18:21your father at the India Alliance meeting
18:25apparently said that the cockroach Janata party
18:27is doing what mainstream political parties need to do.
18:30You all need to question the government.
18:32You all need to hit the road.
18:33You all need to do what the cockroach Janata party
18:36is doing at the moment.
18:37You may attack the BJP on various issues,
18:40but the BJP,
18:41but the fact is,
18:42is the opposition good enough
18:43or credible enough to challenge the BJP?
18:46What he said very clearly was,
18:47there is a lot of discontent in the people.
18:49There's a lot of anger in the people
18:50and it's very important for someone
18:53to keep voicing it.
18:54And I think that is what is happening at Jantar Mantar
18:55and across the country,
18:56wherever there are protests by U.S.A.N.A.,
18:58NSUI or any other party which is in the opposition.
19:00Sadly, the BJP guys cannot protest against their own government
19:03even though they want to.
19:04So, 2029,
19:05done deal as the BJP seems to believe
19:07that Mr. Modi will become Prime Minister
19:12for a fourth time.
19:13What happens to Mr. Fadnavis then?
19:15On that note.
19:16Okay, on that note.
19:18Okay, that's your conspiracy theory.
19:20It's your conspiracy,
19:22it's your prediction that all of this
19:25is being done in Maharashtra
19:26in a way as...
19:27Sideline Mr. Fadnavis
19:28and take him to the union cabinet
19:30so that you have a different face here
19:31and Mr. Fadnavis cannot prove his worth
19:33to be the Prime Minister
19:35as the BJP candidate.
19:36You will support Devinder Fadnavis for PM
19:38as someone who comes from Maharashtra?
19:40Let him say that he is the PM candidate
19:42then we will speak about our own take on that.
19:45Okay.
19:46Aritya Thakre there,
19:47raising a variety of issues
19:49and throwing a few googlies as well there.
19:52Rajdeep Sardesai in Mumbai.
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