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00:00Good evening, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savant.
00:04The story I'm about to tell you, the information that's just coming in.
00:07It's not only shocking, it's extremely scary and it's worrisome.
00:12Breaking news coming in, the pilot in command of the Air India Phuket Delhi flight
00:17that fell almost 300 feet midair, that pilot has tested positive for marijuana
00:25in the confirmatory drug test too.
00:28Now we're told close to 24 people were injured in the midair turbulence
00:33after the aircraft in Air India Airbus A320 operating on the Phuket Delhi flight.
00:40This was cruising at an altitude of about 36,000 feet flying over Urisa
00:46and suddenly it fell midair, almost 300 feet.
00:51Now apparently the pilot was high on marijuana.
00:57Is there a link between the midair turbulence and the pilot testing positive
01:02is a matter of investigation?
01:04A team of top Air India management led by the Air India CEO Campbell Wilson
01:09are believed to have met senior officials of the Ministry of Civil Aviation
01:13and apparently a lot of details have been shared about the August 4 incident,
01:19altitude loss incident.
01:21The information that sources are telling India today,
01:25so the aircraft in Airbus A320 was cruising at an altitude of about 36,000 feet.
01:31Suddenly, about two hours, two and a half hours into the flight between Phuket and Delhi,
01:36the plane just went down 300 feet.
01:40It was initially blamed that this was midair turbulence.
01:44It has been of course classified as a serious incident.
01:48This incident is currently under investigation by the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau or the AAIB.
01:56Both the Civil Aviation Ministry and Air India,
01:59they had initially spoken of severe midair turbulence.
02:03There had also been some reports that spoke of a technical snag
02:07and some issues with the hydraulic and control systems of the aircraft.
02:13So much so, that the aircraft manufacturer, Airbus was roped in.
02:19French Aviation Accident Investigation Authority, BEA,
02:23they were also roped in to assist in the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau or AAIB investigations.
02:31But this dope test and confirmation of the dope test.
02:35So there was the initial test and the confirmatory test.
02:39The confirmatory test information coming in has also confirmed the presence of marijuana
02:47or the consumption of marijuana.
02:50All aspects, we are told, from human error to technical issues,
02:54they are all a part of the AAIB or the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau work,
03:01their investigations.
03:03The pilot and that too, the commander of the flight testing positive for marijuana,
03:08that sent alarm bells ringing.
03:10The Air India aircraft, VT EXO,
03:14it landed, it had landed on the 4th of August
03:16at the Indira Gandhi International Airport in Delhi at 11.07 a.m.
03:20It had departed from Phuket at 8.41 a.m. local time.
03:25So it was about, according to information coming in,
03:28about two and a half hours into the flight,
03:31two and a half hours after departure,
03:33the aircraft is, according to initial reports,
03:36developed some snag, or at least some snag was experienced.
03:42Reports seem to indicate that there were multiple hydraulics-related issues.
03:47The aircraft, of course, landed safely.
03:50Of the 24 people, we are told, 20 passengers, 4 crew members,
03:54many had required hospitalization.
03:57The aircraft was carrying a total of 137 passengers,
04:01137 passengers and 8 crew members.
04:04The aircraft was flying over Odisha at the time of the incident,
04:07approximately at an altitude of some 36,000 feet.
04:10We are also now being told that the flight data recorder,
04:13the FDR, and the cockpit voice recorder, or the CVR,
04:17they've been taken.
04:18They're part of the investigations.
04:21What was strange, even when the flight recovered,
04:25there was the pilot's intervention required, we were told.
04:28When the flight recovered,
04:30the pilots are believed to have urged passengers not to make video.
04:34That image that you see on your television screen,
04:37that's the video that passengers on board made after the incident.
04:42And some passengers were injured,
04:43including a rib injury, a fracture.
04:47There were other injuries.
04:48But we're getting a reaction from the Civil Aviation Minister,
04:52Ram Mohan Naidu,
04:53on this extremely serious development
04:55of pilot testing positive for marijuana.
04:58All other aspects of investigations,
05:00listen in to Ram Mohan Naidu.
05:02That issue, we are continuously studying it.
05:06And DGCA also, we have asked updates on that.
05:08But I'm telling you that we are taking it very, very seriously.
05:11And if we feel that it is not up to the mark,
05:14the present regulation,
05:16then we will respond in it very seriously
05:18and, you know, improve whatever news.
05:23In aviation, there are very strict rules
05:27when it comes to alcohol consumption,
05:29and that is well known.
05:30But drugs, consumption of marijuana,
05:33takes it altogether to a new level.
05:36In fact, in aviation parlance,
05:38there is supposed to be a time lag
05:41between bottle to throttle.
05:43That if you've had a drink,
05:44for the next 8 hours or 12 hours,
05:46you cannot be at the throttle,
05:48or you cannot be in the cockpit,
05:49or you cannot even be part of air crew.
05:53But testing positive for marijuana,
05:55that to on board a passenger aircraft,
05:57this is extremely alarming.
05:58Let me quickly cut across to India today's Amit Bharadwaj,
06:02breaking this big story on India today.
06:05Amit, what more do we know?
06:07One, about the pilot and the confirmatory test,
06:11testing positive for marijuana.
06:12What more do we know?
06:15Gaurav, you know,
06:16when that accident happened,
06:19everybody was on their toes,
06:21and that is why when the AI-2379 landed at Delhi's IGI airport,
06:26both the pilots were taken for testing,
06:29and the samples were taken,
06:32which for common man's understanding can be called dope test.
06:36That sample was taken at IGI airport as per the SOP,
06:40and we were told through our sources
06:42that one of the pilots,
06:44you know,
06:45has confirmed positive in the first round of tests,
06:48and that particular sample has been sent
06:50for confirmatory tests.
06:52Later, the ministry confirmed,
06:54the DGCA confirmed,
06:56that it was pilot-in-command,
06:57which made this case even more,
06:59you know,
07:00very serious concern for everybody
07:03who was on board of that particular flight,
07:06as well as the regulators in India.
07:09So, pilot-in-command,
07:11it was his sample that needed further confirmation,
07:16and hence,
07:16the sample was sent for confirmatory tests,
07:19and today our sources confirmed
07:20that this particular test has come positive,
07:23which means that dope test
07:25for the pilot-in-command of AI-2379
07:28is positive,
07:29and this is a big, big concern, Gaurav,
07:32because you have at least two dozen people
07:35who got injured,
07:36including the passengers and the crew members,
07:38and a sudden dip of 300 feet
07:40is a major concern for the ministry,
07:42and that is why,
07:44today,
07:45the Air India CEO
07:47was also called in
07:48at the Ministry of Civil Aviation's headquarters
07:50in the National Capital, Gaurav.
07:52Stay with me.
07:53We'll talk about this in greater detail,
07:54because this is extremely alarming.
07:56We'd heard of pilots
07:58sometimes out of boredom,
08:00because there are long flights,
08:01though it's not permitted at all,
08:03you know,
08:03take a couple of drink or two
08:05before they're bored,
08:06and that's very strictly frowned upon.
08:09But here,
08:10a pilot being high on marijuana
08:12is deliberately,
08:14is he deliberately endangering
08:16the lives of passengers,
08:19or could it be something else?
08:21I want to bring in
08:22squadron leader Debolina Das,
08:24a pilot and an aviation specialist
08:27joining us on this broadcast.
08:29Squadron leader Das, welcome.
08:31Good evening, Gaurav.
08:32Hi,
08:33your reading of this situation,
08:34can there be a bigger crime,
08:37or is,
08:38you know,
08:38can pilots say,
08:40I didn't know I took a brownie,
08:42I didn't know it had a marijuana,
08:43it had marijuana in it.
08:44What is your reading of this situation?
08:48Firstly,
08:49I would like to say,
08:50it's a very unfortunate incident,
08:53for a pilot in command,
08:54with so much experience,
08:56to be tested positive,
08:58on the second time also,
08:59which is something which is done
09:02only when,
09:04like,
09:04as per my understanding,
09:06a drug test can remain,
09:08or a drug can remain in your blood
09:10up till 90 days,
09:12with the kind of fat metabolism,
09:16or liquid content of your body,
09:19the washing of any drug takes time.
09:22Sometimes,
09:22it can be washed off in four to five days,
09:25and sometimes it can go on
09:27for almost three months.
09:28So,
09:29in this case,
09:30we are not aware exactly,
09:33what was the condition,
09:34for this drug test,
09:35to come positive for him,
09:37when he has administered drug,
09:40or what is the reason,
09:42for this test,
09:43to go positive.
09:44But definitely,
09:45it is something,
09:46that is of huge safety,
09:49and concern.
09:50But we have to also consider,
09:51that maybe,
09:52he was not aware,
09:54that for some reason,
09:56it would remain in his blood,
09:58or maybe he would have taken it,
10:00or consumed it,
10:02as a medical requirement,
10:04a long time back,
10:05where he thought,
10:06that it might be,
10:07get flushed out of his system,
10:09but because he was unwell,
10:11or he was under some medical condition,
10:14which might have allowed him to fly,
10:16but the time taken for the drug to flush out,
10:19took too long,
10:20could be reasons,
10:22which we are not sure of.
10:23Stay with me for a moment,
10:24you know,
10:25stay with me for a moment,
10:26because I want to understand this,
10:27in greater detail.
10:28Amit,
10:28there are very strict,
10:29bottle to throttle rules.
10:31You know,
10:31you may have a drink,
10:32but if you are flying the next day,
10:35you cannot have a drink.
10:36But,
10:36as far as marijuana is concerned,
10:38as far as drugs are concerned,
10:40clearly,
10:41there can be no leeway.
10:42What are your sources telling you?
10:45Has the pilot given an explanation,
10:47or the pilot's body,
10:48do they have an explanation for this?
10:51Gaurav,
10:52today the Air India CEO was calling
10:54to the Ministry of Civil Aviation's
10:55headquarter in the National Capital.
10:57What we know,
10:58for a matter of fact,
10:59that Civil Aviation Secretary,
11:01he was present there.
11:02The AAID,
11:03which is proving the AI-2379
11:05serious incident,
11:07he was present there.
11:07The DGCA was present there,
11:10as well as the Minister for Civil Aviation,
11:12Ramohan Naidu,
11:13rushed from the Parliament
11:14to Rajiv Gandhi Bhavan
11:16for this particular meeting.
11:17So,
11:17we can understand the seriousness
11:19of the matter
11:20and the way it has been,
11:22the message must have been
11:23given out to Air India,
11:24because it was around this time only,
11:27I was indicated to my sources,
11:28that the test result
11:30for a confirmatory test
11:31has also come out.
11:33So,
11:33there could be
11:33very much in this meeting
11:35that the Air India's top official,
11:38who is also an outgoing CEO,
11:40by the way,
11:40Gaurav,
11:41must have been told about
11:42the confirmatory test results.
11:44And,
11:44right after this meeting,
11:46we also need to note that
11:47as to how Ramohan Naidu spoke
11:49about the entire incident
11:50and the seriousness
11:51that the Ministry is taking
11:53this particular matter into.
11:55But,
11:55yes,
11:56you know,
11:57marijuana,
11:58Thailand,
11:59there's a connection to it.
12:00We do not know
12:02when did the pilot
12:02consume marijuana
12:05and what was the timing of it,
12:07that we do not know.
12:09But,
12:09in Thailand,
12:09the consumption for marijuana,
12:11for medical purposes,
12:12we all know how it's widely used.
12:14So,
12:15was it around that time
12:17he took it,
12:17that is part of the investigation
12:20right now.
12:21And,
12:21because you cannot have a dope test
12:23for every international flight,
12:25even in India,
12:26let it,
12:27you know,
12:27let alone be Thailand,
12:29because it also,
12:30it has very limited resources
12:32in place in Thailand
12:34and Phuket Airport.
12:35So,
12:36we do not know
12:36whether this particular test
12:38would have been conducted.
12:39Normally,
12:40for pilots,
12:40you have a breath analyzer test,
12:42which is a test for the alcohol,
12:44is taken,
12:45essentially,
12:45for the international flights.
12:47But,
12:48dope test for every flight
12:49is not possible.
12:50And,
12:50this is something
12:50that's concerning
12:51the Ministry right now,
12:52as well as regulators right now,
12:54that what is the way ahead.
12:56Because,
12:56if this kind of incident
12:57has been reported
12:58and there have been injuries,
12:59serious injuries
13:00to the passengers as well,
13:02what's the way ahead
13:03is a big concern.
13:04Gaurav.
13:05You know,
13:05because the pilots
13:06and the air crew,
13:08from what passengers
13:09have said,
13:10Squad Leader Das,
13:10they said that
13:11they came out
13:12and said,
13:12please do not take videos,
13:14there could be big trouble.
13:16Initially,
13:17there were reports
13:17that Amit and I
13:19and several of our colleagues
13:20across the industry,
13:22they reported
13:24technical snag,
13:26hydraulic glitches,
13:27certain other glitches,
13:29and a mid-air turbulence.
13:30They said it happens,
13:31but doesn't aircraft
13:32actually fall 300 feet
13:34in mid-air turbulence
13:35in your reading?
13:37Does all of this
13:38add up, ma'am?
13:40See, sir,
13:41I would like to tell you
13:42that if a pilot
13:43is under the influence
13:45of marijuana,
13:46where his,
13:47like,
13:48motor skills
13:49are reduced,
13:50which we are trying
13:51to hint,
13:52then is it possible
13:53for him
13:54to carry out
13:55a take-off,
13:55a landing,
13:56and a safe flight,
13:57except the part
13:58where the aircraft
14:00hit the turbulence
14:01and dropped 300?
14:02That's the biggest question
14:03I feel is required
14:05to be answered.
14:06So this particular
14:07cockpit crew
14:08had a safe take-off
14:10and also did
14:10a safe landing.
14:11So if under
14:12the influence
14:13of marijuana,
14:14which is so effective
14:16for that much period
14:17that he couldn't
14:18take a decision,
14:19we have to also think
14:20how could he carry out
14:21a proper landing?
14:22After that much
14:24of chaos
14:25which was happening
14:26in the cabin
14:27and he knew
14:28that his cabin crew
14:29were injured,
14:31his passengers
14:32were injured,
14:33he could keep
14:34his calm and cool
14:35and land the aircraft.
14:37Now we also have
14:38to study the whole
14:39situation that
14:40how does this
14:41marijuana drug test
14:42come positive?
14:43Is the cause,
14:46is the fact
14:48that it has come
14:49positive actually
14:50the cause for
14:51the turbulence incident
14:53or the aircraft
14:54dropping?
14:55We also are aware
14:56Go on ma'am.
14:58Yeah, complete your point.
14:59We also are aware
15:00of the fact
15:01that we have
15:01clear air turbulences
15:03which go undetected
15:04many a times.
15:05Especially when
15:06we are flying over
15:08oceanic areas
15:09where the change
15:11and because
15:12in the last
15:13pre-monsoonic
15:14and post-monsoon
15:15times,
15:16the kind of weather
15:17over the ocean
15:18is many a times
15:20unpredictable
15:20especially when
15:22there is clear air
15:23turbulence.
15:23So maybe
15:24it went unnoticed
15:26and…
15:27Ma'am, give me a moment.
15:28I have a passenger
15:29who was on board
15:30that flight
15:31who joins us
15:32on this broadcast.
15:33Sir, welcome.
15:35What details
15:36can you tell us?
15:37What happened?
15:38And your first reaction
15:40now that information
15:41is coming in.
15:42Amit Bharadwaj
15:43breaking that story
15:43that the pilot
15:44in command
15:45has tested positive
15:46for marijuana?
15:48So,
15:49Ma'am and my friend
15:50were travelling
15:50from Phuket to Delhi
15:51on the same flight
15:54and it was a very
15:55abnormal day for us.
15:56We were about
15:57to miss our flight.
15:58We reached the airport
16:00on the last minute
16:01and on that last minute
16:03the pilot
16:03was also with us.
16:05We were just right
16:06next to each other
16:07when we were trying
16:07to go to our
16:08boarding gates
16:09and I asked
16:11a very simple question
16:12to the pilot
16:13that is the flight
16:14on time or anything
16:15or are we getting late?
16:16But you know
16:18when is a person
16:19is high on weed or not.
16:21He was very slow.
16:22His eyes were red.
16:23His shirt was messy.
16:24We could evidently
16:25see that he was
16:27not in his right senses.
16:31Really?
16:32Yeah.
16:35And then what happened?
16:37Then we boarded
16:39the flight
16:39the flight was on time
16:40after two hours
16:42we were all sleeping
16:45because it was
16:45early in the morning
16:46and that too
16:47of a Phuket flight
16:48so you all can understand
16:49we enjoyed our vacation
16:50we were just
16:51heading back to our home
16:53and we were all
16:54sleeping in the flight
16:55the next thing we knew
16:57my friend
16:58was on the roof
16:59I opened my eyes
17:00and everything was flying
17:01everything was flying around
17:03people were hurt
17:04there was bleeding
17:05all around
17:05everything was
17:07very messy.
17:07I never have experienced
17:10this kind of situation
17:11even in a car accident
17:12a car accident
17:13is a very minor situation
17:14to the situation
17:15that we faced
17:16yes
17:17and
17:19and the pilots
17:20then they came out
17:21then the pilots
17:22came out
17:22of the cockpit
17:23what happened then?
17:24If something like
17:26see I have been
17:27travelling from the past
17:2820 years
17:28I am a Club Maharaja member
17:29I am an elite member
17:31with all of the airlines
17:32so I know
17:33what is turbulence
17:34and what is something
17:35abnormal
17:36when it happened
17:37the first thing
17:39the pilot should have done
17:40was make an emergency
17:41landing
17:41to get medical treatment
17:43to all the hurt people
17:45the first reaction
17:46was him coming out
17:47of the cockpit
17:48I have seen this
17:49for the first time
17:50any pilot coming out
17:51of the cockpit
17:51and he was coaching
17:52all of the passengers
17:54please do not
17:55make a video
17:56please do not do this
17:57as you can see
18:01in all of the videos
18:02around
18:04he was just trying
18:05to save himself
18:06and
18:06so all of the passengers
18:08were scared of their life
18:09why would they make a video
18:10he came outside
18:11and told them
18:11please do not make any video
18:13and that time
18:13we realized
18:14there is something wrong
18:15and we should make a video
18:16if someone is dying
18:17why would they care about
18:19and that's how we have
18:19those videos
18:19on TV
18:20stay with me
18:21squad leader Das
18:22your reading of the situation
18:25so this is very
18:26unfortunate
18:27definitely
18:27very unprofessional
18:29and unfortunate
18:30that
18:31the passenger
18:32due regards to him
18:34could observe
18:35before the flight
18:36as he made an observation
18:38that he felt
18:39that something was wrong
18:40with the operating
18:41cockpit crew
18:42I also feel
18:44that when
18:45you operate
18:46a flight like that
18:47and if a passenger
18:48can make
18:48a kind of
18:50understanding reading
18:51this same cockpit crew
18:53has gone to the dispatch
18:55and has done
18:56his briefing
18:57and has done
18:58his BA test
18:59and has done
19:00the BA test
19:00in front of
19:01medical officers
19:02and then walked
19:04to the airport
19:06and the air ground
19:06how was this
19:07not noticed
19:08by other
19:10competent
19:10very interesting point
19:11for the benefit
19:11of our viewers
19:12BA test
19:13the breathalyzer test
19:14is what you mean
19:15Amit
19:15the black box
19:17of AI 2379
19:19what happens
19:21to that now
19:22and you know
19:23when the passenger
19:24says that
19:25the pilot
19:26in his appreciation
19:27looked rather
19:28disheveled
19:28would all of that
19:30also be on camera
19:31at the airport
19:32in the aircraft
19:33in the cockpit
19:34so would there
19:35be evidence
19:36beyond the passengers
19:39you know
19:39sighting and
19:40perception
19:42Gaurav the good
19:43part in this
19:44particular investigation
19:44is that
19:45the agencies
19:46and the regulators
19:47have you know
19:48checked everything
19:49on the bucket list
19:50so the black box
19:51was secured
19:52right after the
19:53landing at Delhi's
19:54IGI airport
19:55which means that
19:56we have the data
19:57of the cockpit
19:58voice recorder
19:58we also have the
19:59data of the FDI
20:00which is flight
20:01data recorder
20:02for viewers
20:03understanding
20:03anything happening
20:04on the flight
20:05each of data metrics
20:06everything is recorded
20:07into data metrics
20:08so all of that
20:09is being downloaded
20:11decoded
20:11analyzed by the
20:12authorities
20:13and that is
20:14by the design
20:15and you know
20:16which means the
20:17Airbus and the
20:18French Civilian
20:19Aviation Authority
20:20has been grouped
20:21in for the investigation
20:22their technical
20:23assistance will be
20:24taken into account
20:25as well
20:25what our guest
20:27from the panel
20:28is also pointing out
20:29that this is a
20:30marijuana test
20:30which has come
20:31positive
20:31now what will
20:32happen is that
20:33the entire data
20:34of the CVR
20:35and FDR
20:35will be decoded
20:37analyzed
20:37and it will be
20:39matched with
20:39this particular
20:40you know
20:41medical test
20:42examination as well
20:43as to whether
20:44this was the
20:45reason for
20:46the sudden
20:47drop in the
20:48altitude
20:48or was there
20:49any other
20:50technical fault
20:50within the
20:51craft or air
20:52turbulence
20:52that we are
20:53speaking of
20:53or clear air
20:54turbulence
20:55that have been
20:55referred to as well
20:56so all of that
20:57data will be
20:58brought together
20:59examined
20:59analyzing
21:00that's how
21:01the AIB
21:02could come out
21:03with an
21:03interim report
21:04within a month
21:05Amit Bharadwaj
21:06will be tracking
21:06that story
21:07very closely
21:07I want to thank
21:08the Air India
21:08passenger
21:09for joining me
21:10here on
21:11this part
21:12of India
21:13first
21:13we will be
21:13tracking that
21:14story very
21:14closely
21:14I want to
21:15shift focus
21:15to the other
21:15big story
21:16the kiosk
21:17in parliament
21:18premises
21:19yet again
21:20today is
21:20day 17
21:21of the monsoon
21:22session
21:23it's virtually
21:24been a washout
21:25the NDA
21:27and the
21:28opposition
21:28MPs
21:29they actually
21:29squared off
21:30so they're
21:30sloganeering
21:31versus
21:32counter
21:32sloganeering
21:33outside the
21:34parliament
21:34placards
21:35versus
21:36counter
21:36placards
21:37so the
21:37government
21:38ruling party
21:39MPs
21:40they actually
21:40confronted
21:41opposition
21:42leaders
21:43including
21:43Priyanka Gandhi
21:44Vardra
21:44Rahul Gandhi
21:46had laid down
21:47three conditions
21:48he said
21:49these are
21:49non-negotiable
21:50for parliament
21:51to function
21:51including a
21:52statement of
21:52the home
21:53minister
21:53on the
21:54July 20
21:54crackdown
21:55and an
21:56apology from
21:57Prime Minister
21:57Narendra Modi
21:58over police
21:59action
22:00and the
22:01issue of
22:01Ram Mandir
22:02donation
22:03the government
22:04now says
22:04the home
22:04minister
22:05is ready
22:06to respond
22:06in parliament
22:06the government
22:08says Rahul
22:09Gandhi
22:09or the
22:09opposition
22:10is now
22:11running away
22:12from a debate
22:13in the house
22:23this is
22:25completely
22:26un-Indian
22:28Modiji
22:33has not
22:34even
22:34apologized
22:37for what
22:38has happened
22:39yesterday
22:39why is
22:41the prime
22:41minister
22:41silent
22:42what is
22:43the reason
22:44he should
22:45apologize
22:46to the
22:46students
22:47and he
22:48should
22:48stop
22:48this
22:48nonsense
22:49of
22:50police
22:50people
22:51thrashing
22:51students
22:52this
22:52completely
22:53wrong
22:55and he
22:56and he
23:03has to
23:05go
23:05to the
23:10students
23:11kia, maara unpar action, accountability, or third, that Prime Minister should apologize
23:20to the students. We are not going to have any conversation, any discussion before Mr.
23:29Pradhan is sacked.
23:33So it is our advice to the Prime Minister, sack Shah, and order a probe monitored by
23:43Independent High-Powered Committee of the Supreme Court. We are not asking for anything
23:50that is out of the ordinary. At least have the decency to take responsibility for what
23:58you have done.
24:01They have played with children, their ministry has played with them. Did Amit Shah
24:08have ordered or not? Without the Home Ministry order, neither the Delhi Police can play with
24:15the RAF or the RAF can play with them. Right? So our only question is, and we ask that
24:23before we ask that. Have you played with your played or not played? If you played with
24:29you, you are culpable. Agar aapne nahi chalwaadi or kisi honne chalwaadi, you are incompetent.
24:36Either way, you have to go. Now after the Lathi charge in Jharkhand, the BJP is responding
24:43and upping the ante. In Parliament, BJP MPs questioned Rahul Gandhi and the Congress for what they termed
24:49were Congress Party's double standards on Jhantar Mantar and on Jharkhand. They also say, now that Amit Shah is willing
24:57to respond in Parliament, he is joining the debate,
24:59why is the Congress running away from a debate in Parliament? Joining me on India first is Salman Sos, national
25:05spokesperson of the Congress.
25:06R.P. Singh is national spokesperson of the BJP. Smita Prakash is editor, Asian News International.
25:12And R.T. Jairat, a senior journalist, joins us on the show. Salman Sos, the Congress is being accused of
25:18changing the goalpost again and again by the BJP.
25:21From Dharmendra Pradhan's resignation to Home Minister's explanation to the Home Minister's resignation, you wanted an explanation from the Home
25:29Minister.
25:30Now that he is willing to make an explanation or speak in Parliament, the BJP says Congress is shying away
25:35from a debate.
25:38I think those watching us are less concerned about who is shying away from this debate and more concerned with
25:47what happened on July 20th.
25:49And since that time that the Prime Minister of this country and the Home Minister of this country did not
25:57find time to go to Parliament to say anything,
26:01to say anything about what happened.
26:05They did not stand before the People's House to say why people's daughters were poked in their private parts by
26:16our police,
26:17which reports to Mr. Amit Shah.
26:20They did not say why there were policemen and non-uniformed people with lattes which had nails on them,
26:30why they were being used against our young people.
26:34They did not say why pellet guns were used.
26:37And we know of one person at least who's been blinded in one eye, most likely.
26:44And they did not say anything about guns or an AK-47 in Bihar.
26:51I saw it. I'm sure you saw it too.
26:53So they did not own their own.
26:55We had it on our show.
26:56We had it on our show.
26:57So you and I have had debates.
26:58And, you know, no, so all the points we've made right now have been said so many times in the
27:03past so many days since the 20th of July.
27:05Now that the Home Minister is willing to speak, why is the Congress not having a debate in the House
27:10was my question for you.
27:12But fair enough.
27:13Sir, I did not interrupt in your initial comment.
27:16Let me get R.P. Singh to respond.
27:17Rahul Gandhi says opposition is not interested in the Home Minister's point of view on education.
27:23They want a specific response on the use of pellet guns.
27:27Was he unaware or did he order it?
27:31But why is the Congress demand not being responded to, sir?
27:39Well, Gaurav, what you said and what Mr. Rahul Gandhi has said earlier, it's like a dynastic call.
27:46I mean, he says that, OK, this is what you need to say.
27:49Here's a bill, here's a transcript which you have to read in the parliament.
27:53He wants that way things to happen.
27:54He did that with Manmohan Singh, he passed the bill and he came and he outside, he tore the bill
27:59and said, nothing, I don't accept this bill which has been passed by the parliament.
28:02So that is his style.
28:04But fact is, parliament goes by the parliamentary norms.
28:07There are rules and regulations of the parliament.
28:09And when Amish Saji is categorically stating that he is prepared to discuss and debate on every and each and
28:14every subject, which is related to student education, whether here or in Dharkhand.
28:18But again, and this was said two days back, I mean, it was day before yesterday by the parliamentary affair,
28:24Mr. Kilijiju, that yes, Amish Saji is prepared to come in the parliament and deliberate on the subject.
28:30But they won't, they don't want, they're not interested in the parliamentary debates.
28:34They just want to create ruckus and they want to create noise only.
28:38And that's the reason that they don't, they're not coming out to discuss the subject in the parliament.
28:43They are running away from that and then they are scared to hear to what Mr. Amish Saji will speak
28:49in the parliament.
28:50Fair enough.
28:51Aarti Jairat, you've heard both the Congress and the BJP.
28:55Is the Congress running away from a debate?
28:57Is the Congress changing the goalposts repeatedly as the BJP says?
29:01Or is the BJP too late?
29:03I mean, 20th of July and now it's 11th of August.
29:07The Home Minister should have spoken much earlier.
29:10Gaurav, in all this, the thing that is being, nobody is talking about is the demands of the students, whether
29:19in Jharkhand or, you know, Ajantar Mantar.
29:22What is the demand of the students?
29:23They want accountability from the government, whether it's the Jharkhand government or the central government.
29:28They want some kind of assurance that the education, that the education system, the examination system, which has been broken
29:36for a long time, will be set right.
29:39That is not coming through.
29:41They just, you know, it's my protest versus your protest.
29:44It's my, you know, my issue versus your issue.
29:48You are running away.
29:49I mean, what happened in parliament today on the grounds is really unseemly.
29:54Gaurav, in the 35 years that I covered parliament, I've never seen anything like this.
30:00This is, it's a really sad day that parliament has come to this level now where they're, you know, almost
30:07coming to fisticuffs in the grounds of parliament.
30:10So, you know, I think we need to get back to the real issue, which is what the students are
30:15talking about.
30:16But which can only be discussed in parliament.
30:19Our lawmakers need to come and discuss it in parliament.
30:21So, that's my question today.
30:23Is Congress running away from the debate today?
30:26Is Congress changing the goalposts?
30:28No, the point is that, you know, Amit Shah could have also just called the opposition.
30:31That was my question to you, ma'am.
30:33But, Smita Prakash, you know, Smita Prakash.
30:35Let me answer that.
30:37Hello.
30:38One second.
30:38Let me answer that.
30:39Yes.
30:40Amit Shah should have called the opposition's bluff.
30:43He should have gone to parliament and started reading his statement.
30:47The opposition would have looked very stupid.
30:49Why didn't he do that?
30:50Why is he waiting for the opposition to first come, like good schoolboys, and sit there and wait for him?
30:56I think that's not the way.
30:57They should also, you know, call the opposition's bluff.
31:00Okay.
31:01So, Smita Prakash, who's changing the goalposts?
31:03Is the Congress changing the goalposts or is the BJP using this as, you know, just a convenient trick for
31:11the Home Minister not to speak on the floor of the House?
31:42Thank you, Gaurav.
31:43I think that's horrible because, you know, we've all learnt that the responsibility of running the parliament lies primarily with
31:50the government, but the responsibility of allowing the parliament to run is the responsibility of the entire House, the ruling
31:57party, opposition, and everybody else in the House, including the Speaker.
32:00Disruption is a legitimate form of parliamentary, is a legitimate parliamentary weapon.
32:07Yes, that is true, but the parliament repeatedly, every single day, prevented from debating, it ceases to perform its democratic
32:16function.
32:17And I think paralysing parliament should not become the default form of protest and some changes need to be brought.
32:25And who is doing this?
32:27You know, today, if it happened before, it doesn't mean that it should continue to happen now.
32:32Some changes need to be brought because now, you know, everybody is asking for accountability.
32:35Maybe earlier, people didn't.
32:37They were kind of lethargic about it or whatever.
32:39But now we are in an era where everybody wants and the youth are watching, the same youth, the same
32:45voters, the same professional, the women, the students, who you had to, the responsibility in this monsoon session to bring
32:52up their causes, as Aarti just mentioned.
32:54If you don't want to bring their causes today, there is little patience they will have when you go back
32:59to them, when you go back to similar protests which happened in Jandarmantar or is happening in Jharkand today.
33:07Or when you go back to your constituency, they will ask for accountability and the responsibility just cannot be placed
33:12entirely on the opposition.
33:14I need to say this because it's the duty even to allow for the ruling party to allow scrutiny of
33:21what is happening.
33:21The government has a duty to create a space for contentious issues to be debated.
33:27These are uncomfortable subjects.
33:29These are uncomfortable questions.
33:31And they need to be brought on the national agenda.
33:33The people want it to be brought on the national agenda.
33:37So allow that to happen.
33:39This is your constitutional obligation for both the ruling party as well as for the opposition.
33:45Absolutely, Aarti is saying, the government has to let the opposition speak on the floor of the house, listen to
33:52them and then respond.
33:57Well, that's what Mr. Jindju said.
33:59Come on the floor of the house, put your request to the chairman or the speaker of the house and
34:07let there be debate.
34:09And we are prepared to answer each and every question.
34:12But they don't want that.
34:13They just want to create a noise and they just want to create a ruckus and they want to do
34:18something outside the parliament, not inside the parliament.
34:21Because it has happened earlier also when Prime Minister answered on Manipur, they boycotted, they created a ruckus.
34:28When Prime Minister spoke about any other subject which they demanded for, they will walk out again.
34:33That's what the character of the opposition is today.
34:36We still appreciate, we still request the opposition.
34:38Please come to the parliament and Amishajji will answer each and every question.
34:42But Rahul Gandhi is running away from the debate.
34:46Salman Sos, you want to respond?
34:49The opposition has made a point.
34:51It's put the government on the mat.
34:53Now the government says, let's debate every issue in parliament.
34:57But the opposition cannot say, you will say A, B, C and D.
35:02Let the government say what they want to and haul them over calls if they are not saying the right
35:06thing.
35:08Gaurav, first I would tell my BJP friend and colleague that he should not bring up the issue of Manipur.
35:13That issue is a heart-wrenching issue and the BJP has totally failed on that.
35:18The Prime Minister has failed on that.
35:19Let's not talk about Manipur.
35:20As far as this issue is concerned, Gaurav, I just have a few, just two points.
35:25The Prime Minister, our demand has been that the Prime Minister should apologize, express regret.
35:31What did he do instead?
35:32He went and created a real, and basically forgave the misguided youth.
35:39That's what he did.
35:40That's the level of arrogance in this government.
35:42And the Home Minister, Mr. Rijiju, by the way, said that the Home Minister will come to parliament,
35:48but provided the opposition does not disrupt him, I think the Home Minister is under some misconception.
35:55And let me clarify it for him and Mr. Rijiju and the Prime Minister and the BJP.
36:01You are coming to the house of the people of India, the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha.
36:07That's where you are accountable.
36:09You cannot set any conditions.
36:11And you cannot come after two weeks and say,
36:13I will decide how I speak to you and you will not disrupt me.
36:18You have to have some degree of humility.
36:20You have caused so much pain and anguish for millions of families in this country.
36:25And you have the guts to say, I will come under certain conditions.
36:30You are no one to impose conditions on the people of India.
36:32You will come to the people's house and apologize.
36:35You come to the people, you come to the house of the people and say,
36:38how did the police and R.A.M. do what they did?
36:42Respond, let the Home Minister come to the house, let him speak.
36:45If the Congress listens or walks out or disrupts, that's the way Parliament functions.
36:51Let the people ultimately then decide who's right, who's wrong.
36:58Well, that's a very normal language of the Parliament.
37:02Let the Home Minister speak.
37:04Don't disturb in between.
37:05I mean, but they have right to disturb.
37:06They have done it earlier also.
37:08But why are they running away from the debate?
37:10I mean, they can come.
37:11I'm saying it again.
37:12Come tomorrow to the Parliament.
37:14Home Minister will answer each and every question of yours.
37:16Because you can run away from the Parliament as you are running even today.
37:21And still, the Home Minister will answer the question.
37:23But you at least be in the Parliament to start the debate.
37:26Five seconds.
37:27I mean, you raised questions outside the Parliament.
37:29You don't bring...
37:30Give me a second.
37:31Give me a second.
37:31Give me a second.
37:32So, you do what you do in Jantar Munthar.
37:34You do what you do outside the Prime Minister's house and call for people to come and do the
37:38Dharna and Ghera or the Prime Minister's house.
37:39But here in the Parliament, it has to be run by the Parliamentary norms and rules and regulations.
37:44It can't be that you get the government into the Parliament.
37:45Let me get Smita Prakash.
37:45It's both Smita Prakash and Aarti Jairath have covered Parliament for decades.
37:50Smita Prakash, Congress says discuss Ram Mandir donation.
37:55Government says it's ready to discuss other issues.
37:58But first, we'll discuss student protest or words to that effect.
38:01Tell me this.
38:03Is there shying away from discussing either the students' issue or Ram Mandir temple donation?
38:09Can they both be done one after the other?
38:12What is your reading of the government's stance versus the Congress's stance?
38:21Look, whenever there is this kind of a logjam, in the past, if a significant section of MPs
38:26demanded a discussion on a major controversy, the government and the chair used to find a
38:32mechanism for discussing that, rather than allowing the confrontation to continue indefinitely.
38:37In more often than not, this used to happen.
38:41Now, the opposition says that the BJP has normalized this disruption when they were in the opposition.
38:47Now, even if that argument was true, millions in this country, especially Gen Z, a section
38:52of which sees hope in the opposition today that you will raise the issues.
38:57If they don't, they don't, you know, the Gen Z doesn't even know a party other than the
39:03BJP in power.
39:04So, when the Congress says, hey, you did this when you were in the opposition, they were
39:09toddlers when the BJP was in the opposition.
39:11They don't even know that.
39:12They don't know parliamentary norms that the Congress did and the BJP did before the BJP came
39:18to power.
39:18So, you know, they only associate with what they are seeing today.
39:21And today, what they are seeing is normalizing of this hoo-hoo-ha-ha and things.
39:25Two bills were passed today, Gaurav, and I was in the press gallery watching.
39:30Two bills passed without a debate.
39:32And this was about Kerala becoming Keralam.
39:34And I saw even the Kerala members of parliament silently sitting, cracking jokes with each other,
39:41watching and things like that.
39:43I don't mean to demean the members of parliament.
39:45But I'm just saying that this whole system of WIP needs to go because their WIP tells
39:50them that you have to oppose it.
39:52So, even though it is Kerala becoming Keralam, they didn't raise their hands in support of
39:56this, even though they actually would want that.
39:59But they didn't.
39:59There needs to be some change in rules.
40:01Once you get elected, I don't think you should be governed by this WIP system.
40:06Some changes need to be done so that parliament starts functioning again.
40:10Okay.
40:11Aarti Jairat, if the opposition's objective is accountability.
40:15Shouldn't they permit Amit Shah to make a statement and then question him on specifics,
40:20put him on the mat if he's wrong?
40:22Because here, it's almost like a walkover to Amit Shah.
40:26But why isn't Amit Shah in the house to make the statement?
40:30What is he waiting for?
40:32I mean, he can walk in.
40:34He is the home minister.
40:36He can walk into the Lok Sabha.
40:38He can be put on the agenda and he can get up, rise and make his statement.
40:43If the opposition is not there, it's too bad for the opposition.
40:48They lose out on an opportunity to question him.
40:51The point is the government wants to get its point of view across.
40:54So get it across.
40:55What is the formality that they're waiting for?
40:58That everybody in the opposition should be waiting there for Mr. Amit Shah to come?
41:02That's not how parliament functions.
41:04Oh, absolutely.
41:06Let me now switch focus to, you know, in the limited time that I have, I want to raise the
41:10issue of Jharkhand.
41:12Because Salman shows the Congress is now being accused of blatant double standards.
41:17Vocal on Jantar Mantar, but not standing with the students of Jharkhand, except a perfunctory statement in passing, as the
41:24BJP puts it.
41:27I think people may call it perfunctory, but let me just say, put it on record, that Rahul Gandhi is
41:33the only leader in the country who's basically stood with everybody, all young people, regardless of whether they're from Jharkhand
41:40or UP, Bihar or Jantar Mantar.
41:43By the way, I was on a TV India Today debate yesterday when a BJP spokesperson asked me, Rahul Gandhi
41:49went to Prayag Raj for Chhatru Ki Gunj.
41:52Why couldn't he travel 400 kilometers to Ranchi to stand with the students there?
41:59I ask, could the prime minister or the home minister not travel five kilometers from their home in Delhi to
42:06meet the students?
42:07And by the way, let me just ask one question to our prime minister.
42:12You said, beti bachao, beti padhaao.
42:15Okay.
42:15Modi ji, I ask you one question.
42:18When you must have heard that the private parts of our daughters were poked by police officers, you could have
42:25come up on the house of the floor, on the floor of the house and said, I heard this.
42:30I will not allow it.
42:31I will punish the guilty.
42:33I don't need any debate on this.
42:34I will punish the guilty, but Mr. Prime Minister, you did not do that.
42:37Should Rahul Gandhi not have said the same about students being lathi charged after sundown in Jharkhand yesterday?
42:45Because for Congress, it's Jantar Mantar, for BJP, it's Jharkhand.
42:49And what about the students?
42:51What about, sir?
42:52Sir, again, my point is, look at those images.
42:56Just condemnation from afar.
42:58Is that okay?
42:59Fair enough.
42:59It may well be.
43:00But the limited time that I have, R.P. Singh, Hemant Sorain has already ordered an ED probe.
43:07The ED is looking at financial irregularities.
43:09Multiple arrests have happened, including Jharkhand Public Services Commission, former chairman, Khyang Teh.
43:15Why is it that the BJP is not satisfied with the action taken so far?
43:20Let the probe go on.
43:25Well, Gaurav, before I answer your question, just I have to name him, a person named Irfan Ansari.
43:30He's a Congress minister in the Jharkhand government.
43:33He said,
43:36We never did any lathi charge on the children.
43:38Neither when they were walking toward the assembly.
43:40Neither at 7 p.m. after cutting out the lights.
43:43So, this is the mindset of the Congress.
43:46I mean, when Mr. Rahul Gandhi seeks resignation, no, he won't do that because he is a congressman.
43:53But, again, the person who misbehaved with the daughter, give me a second.
43:58The person who misbehaved with the daughter is under suspension already.
44:01And an action is being taken against the person concerned police officer also.
44:04But, I again reiterate, when will Mr. Rahul Gandhi go to Jharkhand or at least seek the resignation of Mr.
44:11Hemant Sorain?
44:12He's the home minister, he's the education minister, he's the chief minister also.
44:16The way the children were treated after they came back, I mean, I'm telling you, there's a great difference.
44:20You have covered the both.
44:21It was a Gandhian style and this was a Naksal style here.
44:24Both were different styles.
44:27Sir, that's a grave charge you're calling Delhi Naksal style and Jharkhand Gandhian style.
44:33Yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:35Smita Prakash, double standards, Jantar Mantar and Jharkhand, are students in Jharkhand being discriminated against?
44:42I have only 30 seconds, sir, because I have to go to the other big story and I want to
44:46quickly bring in Smita Prakash on this.
44:52Smita Prakash, you know, it's really become pathetic, like tumhari kameez, meri kameez se safir kaisi, that kind of a
44:58thing.
44:58Tumhara debate, mera debate, tumhara protest, mera protest.
45:02I'm sorry, but it is time to bring out the debate, legislation, expose weaknesses and bring alternate arguments before the
45:10country.
45:10Instead, pardon me, but it's become a circus everywhere with dramatist personage from fashion statements to placards, which are supposedly
45:18witty slogans.
45:19Nothing is witty, nothing is funny and who's being laughed at?
45:23The legislators are being laughed at, the members of parliament are being laughed at and only sycophants are praising and
45:29saying,
45:30Wa bai wa, kya badi a slogan kia aapne.
45:32Sorry, nobody's laughing at you.
45:34Oh, absolutely.
45:35I mean, people are laughing at you, not at your slogans.
45:37As I said, Gaurav, in all this, the only thing that people are not talking is what the students are
45:43concerned about.
45:44Absolutely.
45:45Let all our lawmakers come together.
45:48Exam paper leaks are sin.
45:50Nobody's talking about that.
45:51Absolutely.
45:52Whether you're the Congress or the BJP, ruling party or opposition, state or centre, just come together and ensure there
45:59are no more paper leaks in this country.
46:01Just jail the people who indulge in the sin of paper leaks and steal the future of our children.
46:05I want to thank all our guests for joining me on this part of the show.
46:09And trouble mounts for a state sponsor of Radical Islamist Tera, Pakistan.
46:14Balochistan is witnessing fresh and increasing vocal push for independence from Pakistan.
46:20Baloch nationalists, they said 11th of August is Balochistan Independence Day.
46:26This is three days before Pakistan celebrates its independence day.
46:30Baloch separatist leader Miryar Baloch issued a fresh message calling for the world to recognize Balochistan as an independent country,
46:38saying it should no longer be referred to as a province of Pakistan that's trying to eat Balochistan like cancer
46:46from within.
46:47He said preparations are underway for a separate passport, separate currency, separate diplomatic missions of Balochistan across the world.
46:55I quickly want to bring in our guest, Sushant Sareen, senior fellow of the Observer Research Foundation and Sandeep Unnithan
47:01on this story.
47:02Sushant, trouble for Pakistan on multiple fronts.
47:06But your reading of this impetus from within Balochistan for independence from Pakistan.
47:13So, Barak, this impetus has come, it's been there for decades.
47:18But I think what has happened is that over the last couple of years, psychologically, I think there is hardly
47:25any Baloch who identifies himself as a Pakistani.
47:27Unless, of course, there are queaselings like this fellow, the chief minister who's head of a death squad and, you
47:35know, some of his cronies,
47:37people who are in government, again, most of them non-elected, unelectable.
47:41But they are there because the army has put them in that position.
47:45But I think if you go at the mass level, they've psychologically seceded.
47:50Now, this particular declaration, while you can go back in history, but I think its revival right now,
47:56is a bit like what happened in 1930 when the Congress declared Poon Swaraj.
48:02But it took 17 years for independence to come.
48:05Now, this struggle is going on.
48:06The problem, however, for the Baloch freedom fighters is that they haven't been able to plug into the international system,
48:15whereby they can get the kind of support they need internationally to, you know, push ahead with their cause and
48:23create pressures for Pakistan.
48:25They haven't been able to do that.
48:27On the contrary, what has happened is that people like Trump and, you know, the Americans,
48:32the Americans have always played a nasty role in these kind of national liberation movements.
48:37They have accepted al-Qaeda terrorists as bona fide presidents.
48:42But people who are secular, who are fighting for progressive values, who are fighting for secular values,
48:49who are fighting for their independence, they are terrorists in the American eye
48:53because they're not going to count out to anybody.
48:55So, they're terrorists.
48:56So, Sandeep, that's the American way.
48:59But, Sandeep, psychologically, as Sushant was saying, the people of Balochistan,
49:04they've seen it from Pakistan.
49:06Women are leading, you know, the revolution with men either jailed or killed to a large extent.
49:12What is extremely interesting to watch at this point of time, Sandeep,
49:15is that there is no fear of the Pakistan army.
49:17The Pakistan army is in fear and in cantonments.
49:20Yes, absolutely, Gaurav.
49:21And not only are they in cantonments, they have apparently dug ditches
49:26and they are trying to protect themselves where they are.
49:29They don't have, you know, they're not free to move the way the Baloch are, clearly.
49:34And the attacks of the Baloch Liberation Army over the last couple of months are witness to that.
49:40And, you know, I completely agree with the fact that, yes, Balochistan has literally seceded from Pakistan.
49:45It may not have happened in a way that we've seen in Bangladesh, for instance.
49:50But this is probably the most serious liberation movement of Balochistan that we've seen in the last 79 years.
49:58The writ of the Pakistan state doesn't run through Balochistan, Gaurav.
50:02And as you pointed out, men and women are fighting the Pakistan state.
50:06And so while Field Marshal Asi Munir can go and, you know, make a Makkah joint defense agreement,
50:13his house is on fire and the largest province, which is Balochistan, is in danger of slipping away.
50:19Today, the 11th of August, which is what the Baloch traditionally celebrate as their Independence Day,
50:26three days before Pakistan's Independence Day, we've seen unprecedented scenes of lockdowns.
50:31The Jafar Express was suspended.
50:34There's curfew.
50:35There's a complete blackout across Balochistan, where the state is trying to build up the 14th of August,
50:42which is Pakistan's Independence Day.
50:44Some kind of a, you know, a pop patriotism moment for the people of Balochistan.
50:48You're going to see stage-managed scenes of that very soon in the next couple of days.
50:51We're, in fact, already watching some and we're putting it out on a television screen.
50:55But Sushant, Mawlana Fazlur Rehman sometime back said that the writ of the Pakistan army
51:00does not prevail in most of the, you know, districts across Balochistan during day
51:06and not at all across Balochistan except inside contornments after sundown.
51:12Yeah, but that's not just true about Balochistan.
51:15I think that's equally true about Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
51:18The writ of the state does not run in large swaths of territory, even in KP.
51:23But in Balochistan, I think the Maulana is, you know, basically stating a fact on the ground.
51:31And his own people have been targeted, although by the ISIS characters.
51:37But they are supposed to be hand in glove with the Pakistan army, which is bringing in, you know,
51:42they're bringing in the Afghan, former Afghan army.
51:45They are bringing in terrorist groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba and ISIS to fight against the Baloch freedom fighters.
51:53So they're doing that kind of thing.
51:55And we've seen clashes in places like Mastung and others between the ISIS characters and the Baloch fighters.
52:02So we've seen that kind of, you know, those sneaky tricks that the Pakistanis are quite used to.
52:08They are deploying those tricks.
52:09But look, here is the situation.
52:11No minister can go to his constituency without an armed escort.
52:15And even then, there is no certainty he will not be targeted.
52:19The Baloch freedom fighters decided that they're going to internet, you know, road transport.
52:24So the Pakistan army decided that we will form armed convoys.
52:28Those convoys were attacked.
52:30So virtually all road transportation has stopped.
52:33So all their wet dreams about linking up with Iran, tying up with, you know, everywhere else in the world,
52:40that's all come crashing down.
52:42The companies, the mining companies like Barrick Gold and others are wanting to get out of Balochistan.
52:48They're trying to sell it, pawn it off to the Saudis.
52:50And they think that maybe the Saudis are foolish enough to buy, you know, those mining rights in that territory.
52:57The Americans want to jump in.
52:59But Americans are either ignorant or completely foolish or maybe both.
53:03And they might be inclined to doing something stupid, which is quite as per their want.
53:08But we don't know how they are going to play this one out.
53:11Because greed rules the current administration.
53:14So we don't know how that plays out.
53:16Sandeep, the manner in which, you know, Sushant points out that Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists, TTP terrorists, you know, ISIS
53:25terrorists, Al-Qaeda terrorists, they are being sent to fight Baloch fighters.
53:29Do the Baloch fighters have the depth to continue fighting on multiple fronts, Pakistani security forces and their terrorist organizations?
53:39Absolutely, Gaurav.
53:40You know, there's no doubt about it.
53:42The way the Baloch have been fighting in the last couple of months, we've seen that.
53:45They're fighting on their home ground.
53:47So these guys who these rotten apples at the Pakistan state is shipping into Balochistan, they're external to Balochistan.
53:54They're not natives to the soil.
53:55They're actually foreign fighters.
53:57The way we fought foreign terrorists in Jammu and Kashmir for several years, that's how the Baloch are going to
54:03fight these rotten apples that the Pakistan military is trying to deploy.
54:07Because the PAK army, Gaurav, contrary to general opinion, is stretched on multiple fronts.
54:14They're fighting in Khyber Paktoonkwa.
54:15They're fighting in Balochistan.
54:17They're deployed against India along the line of control and the international border.
54:21So there's only so much that they can deploy.
54:22And this is why they're resorting to sending all these so-called non-state actors and they're recruiting them.
54:28And they have to fight proxy wars in Afghanistan as well.
54:32And, you know, and plus 13,000 soldiers have been sent by Pakistan to Saudi Arabia.
54:36So isn't Pakistan army very hollow now?
54:41So, Gaurav, yes, they are hollow.
54:43But let me flip this entire thing.
54:46If you look at it from the Pakistani army, which is the Punjabi army, Balochistan has a peripheral area, right?
54:52In the sense that as long as the troubles don't hit Punjab and don't hit Sin and don't affect the
54:58lifestyles of the rich and famous in Punjab and Sin,
55:01OK, the Baloch are dying, maybe, you know, a bit of the riffraff, expendable commodity, you know, cannon fodder in
55:09the army is probably dying.
55:11Yeah, a couple of soldiers die, a couple of soldiers die.
55:14It's not a big deal.
55:15They think that they can sustain this.
55:17And maybe one fine day, a tons of money will come in and they will be able to buy their
55:22way out of the problem.
55:24So they are on a wing and a prayer.
55:25But remember one thing, everywhere which freedom fighters go, they are treated as liberators.
55:31They're not treated as terrorists.
55:32That's a story we'll be tracking very closely.
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