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00:00This is a fair text. 408, see you. Thank you. Appreciate you.
00:05Devil's advocate.
00:07If he had stayed in and gave up a run and got pulled with runners on,
00:11would we be blaming Tony V that he should have pulled him earlier?
00:15How'd you respond to that?
00:17Depends on how it went.
00:19Like, if he goes in there and it's loud contact, put it out,
00:23and then a seven pitch at bat and he gives up a double,
00:26then, okay, it's time to go.
00:27But if it's just, you know, a fluke, a number, a blooper, a duck snort, you know.
00:33That's my favorite one.
00:35The old duck snort.
00:36Yeah, snort.
00:37You know, broken bat single or dribbler.
00:40You know, it just depends on how it looks.
00:42But that is a fair devil's advocate point.
00:44It's a fair point and a fair question.
00:46Here's how I'd answer it.
00:49A, no, I would not blame Tony V if Logan Webb had stayed in and it had not gone well.
00:56But, B, the scenario you throw out there I don't even think is possible.
01:00The scenario that's thrown out is Logan gives up a run and then gets pulled with runners on.
01:05That's already too many batters.
01:07In other words, I've said it a couple of times, in that scenario,
01:11you pretty much put Logan out there and if one base runner happens, that's it.
01:15You sort of give, this is for me at minimum,
01:19you give Logan Webb a shot for a 1-2-3 inning.
01:24He'd been doing a bunch of them.
01:26If he doesn't do it, you have bullpen guys ready.
01:29And to your point, maybe I give him one base runner if it's a duck snort.
01:34Right.
01:35You know what I mean?
01:35You bloop a Texas leaguer, whatever, I'm not going to pull you.
01:40But for the most part, what you usually do with a pitcher is you tell him like,
01:44dude, I'm not going to take your win from you.
01:46In other words, I'm not going to let you get two base runners on
01:50because if they come around to score, you've lost your win, we've lost our win.
01:56Or at minimum, you certainly don't let him face that next batter with two runners on,
02:02hit a home run, and you end up with the loss.
02:05So it's like you've pitched too well to get to that point.
02:07But to me, I really just, I don't, this is just my thought process.
02:13I don't see really any scenario in the way this played out last night
02:18where you don't at least let Logan start the night.
02:21Right.
02:22At least let him start, go get that first hitter and let's see what happens.
02:26And then we can go from there and all bets are off.
02:28That's just, that's the way I would have played it.
02:30Yeah, and it seems like the decision was made between the pitching coach message
02:35and Tony Vitello before Logan Webb even had a chance to weigh in.
02:40Not that, you know, he has the final say or anything like that,
02:43but normally you would talk to the player about it and you would, you know, get his thoughts.
02:48How does he feel?
02:49And then make a group decision.
02:51Sean asked us, we've mentioned this a couple of times.
02:53Sean asked us after the game on NBC Sports Bay Area.
02:56I thought, Sean, if you're listening, he did a brilliant job.
03:01Because you were passionate, it was clear what you were upset about,
03:06but you did it in a very measured, fair sort of a way.
03:09Take a listen to Estes after the game.
03:12Keaton Wynn's going to get a lot of blame for this game and he shouldn't.
03:15And I'll tell you why he shouldn't.
03:16Because he just got done pitching 24 hours ago in Chicago,
03:20getting in at 4 a.m., throwing 18 pitches.
03:22The day before that, he threw 22 pitches.
03:25He had four appearances on the road trip.
03:27Three of those four, he had to get five outs in those games.
03:30The guy's arm is tired.
03:32And you could tell in the ninth inning, based on the mistakes he was making with that split,
03:37that he just didn't have it.
03:38His arm was beat, right?
03:40My point is, is that he shouldn't even be in the game today, all right?
03:44And you know who should be in the game?
03:45The guy that started the game.
03:47Yep.
03:47And the reason why he should have been in the game, because he's the guy, he's your ace.
03:51He's the guy that can handle that.
03:52The guy's thrown more than 100 pitches a few times in his career.
03:55He pitched his butt off all game.
03:58Yes, he did.
03:58Probably should have had 80-something pitches going into the ninth inning rather than 99
04:03because of a call that they probably should have challenged earlier in the game
04:07that would have saved him 12 pitches.
04:09And he doesn't get the ball in the ninth inning.
04:12He's the guy that was able to get his sleep last night.
04:14He wants the ball in that inning.
04:16In a game like that today, you want to save your bullpen.
04:18I guarantee you that Logan Webb wanted to go out and pitch that ninth inning.
04:22I give Keaton Wynn no blame in this game.
04:24You know something we haven't mentioned yet that I think Estes talked about there?
04:28We sort of mentioned it as Logan was the one who didn't pitch in the Chicago series.
04:32Did you hear Sean say Logan is the one who was able to get his sleep last night?
04:36I don't know this, but this is normal.
04:39I bet Logan wasn't even there for the Sunday night game.
04:42Flew him home.
04:43I would think, why on earth would you have him there for Sunday night baseball?
04:48Yeah, that seems pretty standard.
04:49So now I'm going to make an assumption here that Logan Webb was all tucked in with his teddy bear
04:58on Sunday by 1030 at night.
05:01Probably watched the game from bed.
05:02While the Giants hadn't even gotten to the airport in Chicago yet.
05:07And now you yank him out of the game for not just a guy who was there, but a guy
05:14who pitched
05:15high leveraged moments in an extra inning game for the second night in a row, halfway across
05:22the country.
05:22And he had to get five outs in Milwaukee, and I had forgotten that in the previous series.
05:28So Keaton Winsman out there a bunch on the trip.
05:31Sean has a great point.
05:33And look, managers know this.
05:34It's their job to get second guessed.
05:37Is it unfair sometimes?
05:38You betcha.
05:40But I always have a rule.
05:42This is the rule I live by with regard to criticizing, whether it's coaches, managers, or athletes
05:50the day after.
05:51The Monday morning quarterback, if you will.
05:53My thing is, was it your opinion before it went bad?
05:59I don't want to hear, yeah, I want to see Keaton win in there.
06:05And then it goes bad, and you're like, that dummy should have stuck with Logan.
06:08Right.
06:08That's not fair.
06:10But if you started the ninth inning last night, and I'll raise my hand as one of them, thinking
06:16before the inning started, boy, I think you might want to stick with Logan Webb right now.
06:23If you started the inning that way, then it is fair today to question the way that Logan
06:29Webb was taken out of the game, and the way that Tony Vitello managed this thing.
06:34And I count myself among those, and I know that's a lot of you.
06:37Yeah, it's a lot of people, and especially when you see that it's going to be Keaton Wynn
06:42and it's going to be the third straight day, it just gives you that feeling of dread, because
06:47it's something you don't often do.
06:49And if you do it, it's usually because he's your lights-out closer who is incredible.
06:53And if you have that guy, you go to him a third straight day, it's still a little risky,
06:57but you're going to your dude.
06:59Your dude who has all the saves, and he is constantly coming in and coming through in the
07:04clutch, and that's not what Keaton Wynn's been.
07:09It's tough, man.
07:14When do you think Keaton Wynn goes in tonight?
07:18Third inning.
07:18I mean, you've got to keep him.
07:20You've got to ride in the hot hand.
07:22Mean-spirited.
07:23That's a great question.
07:25Which beat writer gets to, actually, the dugout has probably already happened, right?
07:30Has the dugout already happened?
07:31I forget what time they do the dugout on the night games.
07:36Let's see.
07:37Where is the meet?
07:39It's happening right now, actually.
07:40Okay.
07:41So who's the beat writer that gets to go?
07:46Is Keaton down tonight?
07:49I assume.
07:50I mean, don't assume.
07:52Tony.
07:54Keaton's down tonight, right?
07:56Yeah.
07:57Yeah.
07:57Yeah, Keaton's down tonight.
07:59I'll be plotting my revenge.
08:01And you would figure Dylan Smith is down as well, but hey, three straight days, am I right?
08:06I mean, three straight days for a reliever is not out of the question, obviously.
08:11They threw Keaton Wynn last night, and Dylan has thrown very few pitches.
08:15So I wouldn't think that Dylan Smith is off the table.
08:18Sometimes there's three sort of designations, right?
08:21There's full go, there's full stop, and then there's we'd rather not use you,
08:26but if we end up in a situation, we will.
08:29That's probably where Dylan Smith is tonight.
08:31And he threw, what, about eight?
08:33He threw three pitches.
08:34Three pitches, and then what did he throw the night before in Chicago?
08:37Not many.
08:38Right.
08:39Dylan's fine.
08:40Okay.
08:41Dylan's fine.
08:43But, I mean, yeah, Dylan Smith is available.
08:48For those of you who know who that is.
08:50Right.
08:51I mean, the options.
08:56Like, I still will go to bed tonight, and I'll feel for Tony on that front.
09:01The options are not there.
09:04They're just not there.
09:06You know what I mean?
09:07I mean, would you have felt great?
09:08What if it was?
09:09So let's split the difference with what Estes is talking about.
09:13Let's say you really felt strongly it's time to take Logan out of the game.
09:19He's about to hit the top of the lineup for the fourth time through,
09:23and he's just three starts off the injured list.
09:26Tony Vitello, I feel strongly that we've got to take him out.
09:30Okay.
09:31But then Estes is here going, not win.
09:33Don't go to win.
09:34Right.
09:35Dog tired.
09:36Okay, then who would you have felt good about?
09:38How about Sam Hentges?
09:39Okay.
09:40Would you?
09:40He's pitched pretty well in a small sample,
09:43and I don't think he's pitched in, like, five days.
09:45Would you have felt good about Sam Hentges coming in to close the game?
09:48I would feel better.
09:49And, again, you just laid it out.
09:50Like, the whole idea of feeling good, if you run down the list,
09:54there's not many pitchers about whom I would feel, quote, good.
09:57I like Eric Miller, as long as he doesn't have to field,
10:01that can get a little bit sideways.
10:03He doesn't always throw strikes.
10:05Right.
10:05And Tony Vitello said last night, we were looking for strike throwers.
10:09You know, you thought that was a little bit of a shot.
10:12Absolutely.
10:13Was it Dylan Smith?
10:14Yep.
10:15I thought it was a shot at the whole pen.
10:17And, by the way, it's a fair shot.
10:20Yeah.
10:20You got a bunch of dudes that come out of the bullpen throwing bowls.
10:25Well, Keaton wins.
10:26He throws maybe the most strikes.
10:28He's only walked nine in, what, 30 innings?
10:32Yeah.
10:32Eric Miller came in the night before and almost blowtorched the whole game.
10:38Because he came in.
10:39The first thing he did was walk the first guy.
10:41Right.
10:41And then the next thing he did was, like,
10:43throw it over the first baseman's head.
10:44Backward through my legs, little hoopity-hoppity throw.
10:48I mean, what the hell was that?
10:50And he got lucky.
10:51So, okay, I understand that.
10:53But what are your other options?
10:55You got Carson Seymour.
10:56You got Tristan Beck.
10:58Right.
10:59Sam Hentges.
11:01Brubaker.
11:02Yeah.
11:03And Brubaker pitched the day before.
11:05That's okay.
11:07Killian was down.
11:08Those are your options.
11:10They're not great.
11:11They're not good options.
11:12They're not great, Bob.
11:12No.
11:12And, I mean, Tristan Beck is sitting with an ERA of 10.5.
11:16Tristan Beck.
11:17I mean.
11:17It's been a disaster.
11:19And, you know, Dylan Smith, he's played such a small, small role that, you know,
11:24you didn't want to throw him in there because he's too green.
11:26So you go to your experienced guy who's pitched a third straight day.
11:30Or the other thought would be, I don't know, let your ace who's making $23 million a year
11:35who, I guess, got a good night's sleep if he did, in fact, fly home early.
11:40I got to imagine.
11:42If they didn't fly him early, that is.
11:45Malpractice.
11:45Completely.
11:46Yep.
11:46You're stealing my word, but you're absolutely right.
11:48You beat me to it.
11:49I knew where you were going.
11:49It's malpractice because what's he going to do in Chicago other than spit seeds and watch
11:55a little bit of ball in the rain?
11:56Yep.
11:58That would be malpractice.
12:00So.
12:01Mm-hmm.
12:03Thanks, Stiney.
12:06You texting you?
12:07No.
12:08Oh.
12:08No, you just did a little stuff.
12:10Mm-hmm.
12:10Oh.
12:11Give you a guru, too.
12:12Thank you, guru.
12:13Go back in.
12:13All right.
12:14You'll listen.
12:14Hey.
12:1595.7 The Game, KGMZ FM, and HC1 San Francisco.
12:18Odyssey Sports Station in the home of the Golden State Warriors and Valkyries, always live
12:23on the free Odyssey app, and coming to you live from the Laughing Monk studios.
12:28This is another classic moment.
12:31We've debated this on this show and many others many times.
12:36Do you want to hear what Tony Vitello said as far as his explanation to how this all came
12:44together?
12:44I do, but I think we should always, I guess it's less happening now than earlier when you
12:50could like play, guess the rapper that he references.
12:53I think he's kind of backed away from some of his material.
12:56Did you hear about his meeting with Pat Murphy, Milwaukee Brewers manager?
13:01They're good friends.
13:02I think I heard about this.
13:03Did you hear what Murphy told him?
13:05I didn't hear that part of it, no.
13:07Pat Murphy, they visited.
13:09I guess they know each other.
13:10And they hung out a little bit, and Murphy said, hey, I got some advice for you.
13:18What do you think he said?
13:20Two words.
13:21I was going to go with knock it off, but that's three.
13:27Lay off.
13:28Kind of.
13:29Chill out.
13:30Say less.
13:31Aha.
13:32Now, here's the irony in all of this.
13:37We found out what Pat Murphy told him.
13:40That would be saying more.
13:41Which means he didn't say less.
13:44He said more.
13:44Pat Murphy said, say less, and the first thing Tony did was go tell John Shea what Pat Murphy told
13:49him.
13:51Man, that's true irony.
13:53That is the most beautiful irony.
13:55I'm like, how did we get to know that?
14:00I got to think.
14:01Oh, no.
14:02I hope Pat Murphy's got a subscription to the SF Standard, and he read it the next day and just
14:06went, oh, for crying.
14:07For crying.
14:08Shut up.
14:08Right?
14:09Just like, why did I, I just said, say less.
14:12Shut up.
14:14Rats.
14:15I don't want to get mad at that, though, because to me, that's what I.
14:18I was talking to Susan.
14:21Sorry.
14:22I talked to Susan.
14:23Susan doesn't exist.
14:26Maybe that's guru saying that Tony Vitello talked to Susan Slusser.
14:30You can't do that.
14:31Tony, who did you tell that you talked to Pat Murphy?
14:34I talked to Susan.
14:35I heard it was John Shea.
14:37Who the hell is John?
14:39If you have that one still.
14:41It's a Tuesday.
14:42We've lost Willard.
14:43I talked to Susan.
14:44Right.
14:45That's gold.
14:46Oh, boy.
14:47By the way, just one piece of information.
14:50It's a confirmation sensation that Logan did fly home.
14:54Of course.
14:55My sources told me.
14:56That would have been bananas if they didn't do that.
14:59Apparently, Tony Vitello told somebody that Logan was going to fly home early.
15:04I bet he told Pat Murphy and Pat called Susan.
15:06He talked to Susan.
15:09As luck would have it.
15:10I talked to Susan.
15:11He probably should have sent Adrian Hauser home, too.
15:14Go get two nights of sleep.
15:16Maybe they should send him home now.
15:18That would be the other angle.
15:20Ask Tyler Malley, not Adrian Hauser.
15:22549 ERA.
15:24Oh, yeah.
15:24No, not great.
15:26But better.
15:27Right.
15:28Is that better?
15:29Oh, yeah.
15:29Better than Malley?
15:30Yeah.
15:30I'll take your word for it.
15:31It is.
15:32You got some fresh Vitello?
15:34I do.
15:35I mean, at this point, I don't know how fresh it is.
15:37But this is why he pulled Webb.
15:39You know, obviously, an outstanding outing by Webby.
15:44Made the decision to let him go back out in the eighth.
15:46Looked really good.
15:48Obviously, you know, you get back to the top of the order one more time through.
15:53And where he's been at with pitch count and a little bit of time off, long delay in the
15:58inning, decided to go to the guy who's been late in the game for us.
16:02And obviously, with Keaton, he's got, you know, experience of it going his way and not
16:08going his way.
16:09So goes out there.
16:10And then as we navigate through the inning, there's obviously some situations in there.
16:16You don't want strikes, but we provided strikes.
16:19So to me, that was kind of the difference maker.
16:22OK.
16:22There's situations where you don't want strikes, but we provided some strikes.
16:28And that situation is second and third in a 2-0 count.
16:32So I don't know, Tony, you can make it so strikes aren't provided.
16:36You can make it so balls are only provided.
16:40Automatic balls that aren't thrown, they're just automatically issued as balls.
16:45And then that guy doesn't get to feast on a meatball from your pitcher, who admittedly
16:51has the best walk per nine innings rate.
16:54He throws the most strikes.
16:55So he's behind the count 2-0.
16:57And the hitter's thinking, this guy throws a lot of strikes.
16:59I bet you there's going to be a strike coming.
17:02Whack!
17:03This game is tied!
17:04Yeah, it's just not...
17:05Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da!
17:07No, no, because unfortunately the inning wasn't over.
17:10The inning wasn't over.
17:12We've got to go get Washington.
17:15Let them get one more.
17:19Clearly, the assembled media was not done after that answer.
17:23Okay, fine.
17:24You're going to take Webb out.
17:26Why Keaton?
17:30He's been a guy we trust at the end.
17:32Killian's not available.
17:34Obviously, Smitty's kind of putting his name in the hat there for end of the game.
17:38But we needed strikes.
17:40And in my opinion, needed experience.
17:42And we needed a guy who has gotten it done for us in the past.
17:45So, I went with him.
17:47I know that this is just a figure of speech.
17:50Did anybody else get uncomfortable when he referred to Dylan Smith throwing his hat in the ring?
17:56Okay.
17:57We're not volunteering.
17:59Right.
18:00Dylan Smith.
18:00He's been here three days and he's already got a nickname.
18:03And his hat, he's throwing his hat in the ring.
18:05Like.
18:06This feels like a Superstation broadcast from the 80s.
18:09Look, Webby, Smitty, we got Raffy, we got Arizy, we got Chappie.
18:15But also, we're not volunteering for weekend work on the highway here.
18:20Hey, does anybody want to be the closer?
18:22Hey, I'll do it.
18:24I'd like to throw my hat in the ring.
18:25Throw your hat in the ring.
18:26All right.
18:26We're going to be drawing straws later.
18:30Oh, that's just so uncomfortable for everybody, including Tony.
18:36That's so, like, throw his hat in.
18:39And I know it was just a figure of speech.
18:41Right.
18:42But he's also not lying.
18:45You go out there for the Giants and have one good outing, everyone's like.
18:50Closer?
18:50You might be our closer.
18:52Do you know that kid's book?
18:53Are you my mother?
18:54Oh, yeah.
18:55We read it all the time.
18:56That's what went through my head.
18:58Are you my closer?
18:59Like, somebody will go out there and throw one strike.
19:03Who are you?
19:03Are you my closer?
19:05This is really good.
19:06Wait a minute.
19:07Oh, wait.
19:08You got a strikeout.
19:09Are you my closer?
19:12Oh, my God.
19:14Oh, God.
19:15Yeah.
19:16Well, that's been, it's only been, like, the whole season of that.
19:20Like, and then you get to Ryan Walker.
19:22You can't be my closer.
19:24And it's just like the book, by the way.
19:26No, the answer's no.
19:27None of those people are your closer.
19:29Well, and finally, in the end of the book, spoiler alert, in case you're hoping to see the movie someday,
19:33he actually does see his mother.
19:35Yeah, and I do think the Giants someday will find their closer.
19:39And they'll be, I got the Giants at 50 and 78.
19:43Oh, we got a closer, though.
19:45That's good.
19:45That guy you keep, Foley, some made-up Axel Foley.
19:49Axel Foley.
19:50I got the Giants going.
19:5282 and 75.
19:53I'm not going to fall for the banana in the tailpipe this time.
19:56Yeah.
19:56All right, we even asked, so, well, when Smitty threw his hat in the ring, did you consider going to
20:03him?
20:03You talk about Smith kind of getting in that mix a little bit.
20:06Was that a conversation as well in the dugout, or was this Keaton's inning once he got past Logan?
20:11Yeah, it was pretty much Keaton's inning, and it, you know, at the time, it's looking like, you know,
20:15you don't know if the game's going to be another extra inning affair or not.
20:19And once we got that deep into the game, it was basically those were our two guys.
20:23Okay, so it was Webb or it was Keaton?
20:26So it's a 3-1 game, and you're a little concerned about extra innings because you only have the two
20:31guys, it sounds like.
20:32I don't know.
20:34Make it three guys and let Logan keep pitching?
20:36Keep one?
20:37Keep two.
20:38So then, so Vitello has already gone through the decision, and then you can tell, this is when you can
20:44tell the media's like,
20:45I don't think I like your answer, so I'll ask it again.
20:49So did you consider just staying with Webb?
20:53And some of the reasons for not sending Logan out for the ninth, but was there any sort of consideration
20:57to sending him out there?
20:59Yeah, it was a conversation for sure.
21:01Sitting right at 100 pitches, and, you know, obviously he took ownership of that game.
21:08He took ownership until you evicted him.
21:11You foreclosed on his ownership of the game.
21:15He had one more mortgage payment to make, the ninth inning.
21:19Nah, we're going to go ahead and foreclose on you.
21:21We're going to let Keaton Wynn move in and take ownership of the game.
21:27Burning down the house.
21:29It's rough, Mark.
21:30That was a bad ninth inning.
21:32Yeah.
21:33Like, in a lot of different ways.
21:36That was not good.
21:37No Logan, tired Keaton, the pass ball, or as I called it on the show thread.
21:43No one was in the mood for my humor.
21:45It was a pass ball.
21:47That's a one.
21:48His name is Haas.
21:49Actually, it's at least a three if you just waited until, like, this morning.
21:55Yeah, you guys were not in the mood to chuckle.
21:57What did you call Keaton Wynn last night?
22:00Either Keaton loss or Keaton blown save.
22:02I gave you guys options.
22:04See, they are funny.
22:06And actually, you said, knock him off.
22:07We really got snippy.
22:08Don't take Spadoni.
22:11Because I guess Spadoni's a guy who's known for puns.
22:13He likes the puns.
22:15But actually, you said no one was in the mood for that.
22:18We do not have any evidence that Grandy and Pasta were not in the mood for it.
22:22I disallowed it.
22:23I was not in the mood for it.
22:25And I was like, the Giants are in the midst of losing.
22:28I don't want your stupid jokes right now.
22:30I don't want your dad humor.
22:32The Giants are stupid and this is stupid and just save it.
22:35Just wait.
22:37I'll be fine if you just give me 12 minutes.
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