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Welcome to Plathville - Season 8 Episode 10 - Where the Rubber Meets the Road
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00:00It'd be nice to maybe go out and go on a date and meet somebody, someone who likes
00:05to stay active, grounded in her faith, single and ready to mingle, let's go find
00:12you a girl. So I just don't necessarily know Tegan too well. I've heard things
00:16just around, you know, a lot of money you've spent with her and you giving a
00:21lot and her not necessarily giving in return or something like that, so I don't
00:26know where Zach heard that from. That stuff's just pissing me off.
00:32Okay, you ready? I'm ready. I flew up to Wisconsin from Montana to see Ethan, spend
00:39time with mom and help her with the 18-hour drive home. Growing up, I didn't
00:46really learn to really talk about things in general. A large piece of that was not
00:52talking about Joshua. Joshua was one of our sons and he died at 17 months old in a
00:59really tragic accident. Publicly, Lydia gave lots of details of Joshua's death.
01:05Then she went on to speculate about how it affected me, how it affected Barry and I's
01:10marriage. Things that I feel she doesn't have the place to say.
01:33Today is my blind date day. I'm gonna make history in my own book. In the annals of Barry
01:41Plath, this will be historic. We're talking blind date. So what is the right
01:46shirt for a blind date? That's the question. It's been a long time since I've been on a
01:53date. I mean, since Kim and I were dating, that's been 27 years ago. Yeah, so I'm going
01:59down to a cafe in Tallahassee to meet this lady.
02:06So wait, how did this blind date come about? Yeah, the blind date has just come up because
02:12of a friend of a friend of an acquaintance. She's good looking and a Christian. I think
02:16that's about all I know. So it's pretty blind. I would love to find a partner that has similar
02:25interests. I love a good biblical mystery. It's like, how many women out there have read
02:31the book of Enoch? Probably close to zero. But I've recently done that. And it's kind
02:38of fascinating. I'm not going to get coffee, that's for sure. If they have kombucha there,
02:43you know, I'll be ordering it.
02:47Do you have any good pickup lines?
02:51Hey, baby, your hair sure does flow.
02:56Come flow my way, baby. I want to go with the flow. Maybe I should try this on somebody.
03:04Best look for a blind date. I'm going to go try this on. See if it's what I want. I'll
03:13spring
03:14the duck on them.
03:19Yeah, I think this is it. It's light to counter the dark, gloomy, rainy day. Wear something
03:30light. So this is going to work for me, I think. Yes, I consciously chose the shirt because
03:36I knew that it would show that I have put four years of investment into my upper body. If
03:44I can, why not? I mean, of course, I'm a little excited, nervous, excited. It just goes with
03:52the territory, right? Because you don't know how it's going to go. So back when Kim and I
03:59were dating, we did have that posture where we weren't going to kiss until we got to the
04:03altar. I've revised that. I'm very open to kissing. Probably not on the first date, but
04:11at some point along the line. Why not? That's kind of a change between version one versus version
04:20two. Do I wear khakis or do I wear jeans that are blue jeans? But my general posture right
04:28now still, I'm a traditionalist, right? I like to wait until marriage regarding sex. Those
04:35are the household rules in the kingdom. So we're going to abide by them. Did you tell
04:39the kids about this and what do they think? I think in the past, I've talked to Lydia and
04:44Zach about it and they're like, don't do blind dates. Well, guess what? I'm doing a blind date
04:50just because. With the butterflies in, right? As long as we're expressing feelings, I've
05:04heard, I don't know that this is true, but I've heard that you and Zach have sat down people
05:11and explained to them that you didn't like how they were living, that they weren't godly
05:16enough or whatever. Is that true? Or tell me your side of it because that's what I've
05:22heard. Apparently, Lydia and Zach have been sitting people down and telling them that they
05:29don't approve of how they're living their lives. And that's kind of hard. I just want to hear
05:38Lydia's perspective on it. What I heard is that you two said to Mariah that
05:47you didn't approve of her having alcohol in the house. No, that's all you're saying. You
05:52didn't approve of the games that she plays, like the raunchy card game and the movies or
06:00TV that she watches. We weren't saying that. That it doesn't honor God. That's what I was
06:06told. So this is your chance to correct me, make it like, help me understand. I've already
06:12corrected all of it with Mariah and Amber and everyone was there. I don't know. Yeah, I
06:19mean. If I'm not like calling up people asking for people's business, but people tell me. Yeah.
06:28And then I'm like, OK, what do I do with that? Yeah. I am a little taken back. I guess
06:38news
06:38travels fast. When we were in Montana last week, Zach and I just observed a lot. Mariah
06:46having the alcohol there. I just like just wanted to bring it up to Mariah, like just be aware,
06:54you know, like, you know, Amber's the minor still. And someone turned on a show that had
07:00more F bombs in one episode than I hear at work in a week. The card game. It was just
07:09another
07:09instance of like not feeling considered like, you know, I would never in a million years read
07:14out loud what it says on this card. But these things did bother us and we thought it'd be nice,
07:22you know, if there if there was less of it. We just wanted to, you know, bring that to
07:27Mariah's attention of like, you know, just be careful the example you're setting because Amber
07:31really looks up to you and not to say you need to change this or you need to change that
07:37or you're
07:37not doing, you know, something good enough or you're doing it wrong. And I know Amber's strong and
07:43she's not like just going to follow one person in their footsteps. Yeah. We brought it to Mariah
07:50because we want the best for Mariah. We want the best for Amber. And I want to say whatever needs
07:57to be said. I think for a long time, being angry was just uncomfortable for me. It was like, I
08:03can't
08:04be angry, but I've also come to terms with the fact that there is a righteous anger and that is
08:10necessary. And that is good. You know, we're 11 people in the family. There's going to be clashes.
08:18Yeah. You know, we just need to accept everybody as best we can. And it's not going to be. We're
08:27not
08:27all going to be the same. Yeah. So there's going to need to be, you know, some tolerance for maybe
08:34somebody drinks and watches weird stuff on TV, you know. Lydia doesn't see a problem with them
08:43sitting people down and correcting them. But when I talk to everybody else, yeah, it was. I feel like
08:51there needs to be a little more communication about it. I don't feel like that topic is done yet.
08:59Zach and I enjoyed our time in Montana, but at the same time, we just, once again, didn't
09:05feel considered in really anything. Another time being misunderstood and yeah.
09:30So here I am on an adventure to meet someone that I don't know who she is, but I'm soon
09:38going to find out. Hello. Hi. I'm Barry. I'm Jonah. Jonah. Nice to meet you. Oh, you're
10:00a hugger. Awesome. Well, it's a pleasure to meet you. Very nice to meet you. Have a seat. I turn
10:06around, stand up and see Jonah. She's very petite. I'm like, wow, that that's a nice
10:13little thing. So it's a very good start. I guess you can say is my first time at going
10:20into this realm of blind dates. I've never done one before. This is my first time. Me too.
10:29So. My name is Jonah. I've been divorced for about nine years. Dating here in Tallahassee
10:39after you've turned 40 and you have children is difficult because everybody knows everyone
10:46here. So did you, did you like go online and find anything out? Maybe a little. I would
10:56have. If I were, if I were. Did you know anything about me? All I knew was you were in
11:02your 40s,
11:03you were athletic, you were blonde and very good looking. Well, they described me perfectly. Yeah. I think,
11:11you know, Jonah's physically my type and I'm hoping I'm making a good first impression because I like
11:17what I see. I feel like there's some things to talk about. We kind of need to address how Lydia
11:27and Zach
11:27have sat people down in the family and told them they're not living right. You're not going to find
11:33any healing in that. You do lift. Not as much as you, obviously. Well, I like the jump. I'm feeling
11:40like she has an interest. I'm hoping that he wants to kiss me. I'm all about a kiss on the
11:47first date.
11:57So how old are you? I'm 57. Okay. And I take it you're in your 40. 46. 46. Yeah. Yeah.
12:05Well,
12:05you look wonderful for 46. Thank you. You look very young. Oh, keep on coming. Keep the compliments coming.
12:12Yeah. Yes. Okay. But yeah. Yeah. So and that's a great shade of blue. Thank you. I like it. I
12:23like it.
12:25And blue is one of my favorite colors. There's always the butterflies like the, you just never know what
12:34could happen here. You know, will it flow? Will it be like silence? Will there be awkward silence?
12:41So how many, how many children do you have? Four. You have four? And, uh, have you heard anything
12:47about how many children they might have? How many do you have? I have more than four. Okay. So.
12:56Wow. And it's, uh, it's not double digits, but it's maxing out at the single digit level.
13:05Oh, yeah. Well, for me, four was enough. Once we quickly got in the conversation,
13:10some of my fears were put aside because she was really responding in a good way. And so, you know,
13:15one thing just led to another and we just kept talking. We took the, the be fruitful and multiply
13:21seriously. Well, apparently. Are you Catholic? No. No, I'm just, I'm just a regular, uh, Christian.
13:28Not any flavor. I'm not either. So do you go to a, a church here locally?
13:33I don't. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm religious. I grew up as a Southern Baptist.
13:38Mm-hmm. Organized religion is really not my thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
13:42I believe in God. Yeah. I pray, but I don't. You don't go to church right now?
13:47No. Yeah. No denomination or anything, so. Yeah. Gotcha.
13:52I'm getting good feedback, uh, from Jonah about her faith, right? And she may not attend a, a church right
13:58now,
13:59but she, she has a, a strong faith in God. So we're connecting at that level.
14:04No? Ah, awesome. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. Let me know if you guys need anything else.
14:08We're striking a, a good chord there, I think, together.
14:12How do your children feel about you doing something like this?
14:17Well, the younger girls, they're kind of curious about that.
14:21And then there is an aspect where they want to see me happy and thriving in a new relationship.
14:29But they want it to be the right one.
14:32Yeah.
14:33I'm feeling like she has an interest. There's this, uh, look that she has.
14:40This has been 27 years since, uh, I've had this type of, uh, experience.
14:45I'm like, in my mind, I'm going, this is turning out better than I had imagined.
14:50Okay, you look great, by the way.
14:52Thank you. Thank you.
14:54I hope I got the longevity gene happening.
14:57I was kind of nervous going into this, but he immediately made me feel very comfortable, and he's making eye
15:06contact with me, which is something I really like.
15:10Do you, uh, do you like to do things that are, like, athletic and sports-oriented?
15:15Oh, yeah. I go to the gym five days a week.
15:18Oh, you're a gym type.
15:19Yeah, very much so.
15:22Really?
15:22Yeah.
15:23Wow.
15:24And I lift.
15:25You do lift.
15:26Yeah, I do.
15:27Not as much as you, obviously.
15:28Well, I like the gym.
15:30You might be able to tell that I do like to hang out at the gym.
15:35He's certainly, uh, got the guns going on.
15:39I love it.
15:42So, it looks like in the gym, we could be a great complimentary...
15:46I think so.
15:48I'm gonna push you.
15:50I'm ready to be pushed.
15:52Little bitty me.
15:53I'm like, yes.
15:58I think I'm gonna whip his butt in the gym.
16:02Good stuff.
16:04So, let's break the ice.
16:07Yeah.
16:09What are you looking for in a relationship after being married for so long?
16:14With nine kids?
16:19Well, I'm looking for someone who likes adventure, wants to travel.
16:24Personality-wise, you know, outgoing, um, fun-loving.
16:30Likes to laugh.
16:31Not too serious, right?
16:33Are you trying to describe me?
16:37If you ask around Tallahassee, a lot of people know me because I'm in real estate.
16:43So, they'll tell you that what you see is what you get.
16:46Mm-hmm.
16:47That's great.
16:48That's great.
16:49So, I find out she's a realtor out there in the world making a living.
16:54Right.
16:54So, it's all there in a package and it's feeling great.
16:58And, you know, I just want, I want to develop a relationship where you can just be yourself.
17:04You grow together.
17:05And we grow together.
17:06I agree.
17:07Right.
17:08I need time to just let things develop.
17:14That's kind of where I'm at.
17:16Well, that's me too.
17:17I've been divorced for eight or nine years now.
17:21Mm-hmm.
17:21So, I've dated, I've had long-term relationships, but not something that really plays.
17:31You haven't found the one.
17:32I haven't found the one, so.
17:37Well, I get a very good vibe.
17:40You're giving me some.
17:40I do too.
17:41I've really enjoyed this.
17:43Shall we, like, set up a time for, like, another date?
17:47I would love that.
17:57You guys, why don't you, why don't you just wrap things up?
17:59I need to go and get a bite to eat with her.
18:04I'm hoping that he, uh, wants to kiss me.
18:10I am totally open to it.
18:12I'm all about a kiss on the first date.
18:16Let's make this an adventure.
18:17Well, let's do it.
18:21So, this is me.
18:23Yeah, nice.
18:24Convertible.
18:26It was a pleasure.
18:27I did not kiss her.
18:29I have a standing rule, I just don't kiss on first blind dates.
18:33But, I could tell, she was willing to receive.
18:37Are you looking forward to getting familiar better?
18:40Yes.
18:40I am looking forward to it.
18:42Yeah, I can feel it.
18:44I couldn't ask for it to turn out any better, actually.
18:54He's never told me I shouldn't drink.
18:56I would love for him to.
18:58They were brought into your house.
19:00She lent you her car for the weekend.
19:02Now you want to sit her down, tell her what she's doing wrong,
19:04because you think what she's doing doesn't honor God.
19:07A normal person would know their place and be like,
19:10okay, I personally disagree with that.
19:12But it's not my place to go and tell them what they can and cannot do
19:15when I'm being welcomed into their home.
19:29I'm back home from the road trip with me and Lydia.
19:32And Barry is coming over today.
19:35I just wanted to talk to him about my trip to see Ethan.
19:39Even though Barry and I are divorced, we're both parents of some wonderful kids.
19:45And occasionally it's good to communicate about some of those things, so we're on the same page.
19:51Hello.
19:52Hey.
19:52How you doing?
19:53Yay, my juicer.
19:55Yeah.
19:55Well, it's my juiceless juicer.
19:57I've been...
19:57No, it's my juicer.
19:58I know.
19:59I bought it.
20:00Set it on the dining room table.
20:01I'll set it on the dining room table.
20:02I didn't get to use it, but it's back with you.
20:06Again.
20:07Okay.
20:07Well, great.
20:08You want to sit some...
20:10And I can update you on my trip with Ethan.
20:13Yes.
20:13I would like to kind of find out what's going on up there.
20:15I haven't talked with him recently, so...
20:17I really didn't know what he and Tegan's relationship was like.
20:21I didn't know if they're back together, if they're not back together.
20:25I was assuming it was on the way out and it wasn't going to work.
20:28Well, I have a better understanding now of it from talking to Ethan and from talking to Tegan.
20:34Do you know why they broke up?
20:37It was Ethan's birthday, and Tegan drove from Wisconsin to Minnesota to surprise him.
20:45Then they got into a little bit of an argument, but something that Tegan did or said, Ethan said he
20:52looked at her and he saw Olivia.
20:55Like, he freaked out and he just got in his vehicle and drove off and he turned off his phone
21:01and he didn't come back for like 12 hours.
21:03Okay.
21:04So he's got a lot of stuff to work through still.
21:07Yeah.
21:07Because see, then Tegan just left.
21:09She looked for him, drove around looking for him for a couple hours, and then she just left and went
21:13back to Wisconsin.
21:14Poor girl.
21:15And then called and broke up with him the next day.
21:19She was left hanging.
21:21Yeah.
21:21She was really left hanging.
21:23She does love Ethan.
21:24I just feel like she just doesn't even know if it's possible to move forward.
21:32I feel awful for Tegan.
21:34I can't imagine driving five or six hours to go see your boyfriend and then you get there and something
21:40happens and then he just leaves and you've got to drive all the way back home and still not know
21:45what's going on.
21:47That would be heartbreaking.
21:49I think he needs more time to heal before he gets into a serious relationship because he's been through so
21:55much and he's got to.
21:56He does need to give it time, but I feel like he also needs to learn some basic communication skills.
22:02He has to tell somebody, look, I can't handle this right now.
22:06I'll be back.
22:07I need some space.
22:08And I think he knows it's going to be a long haul.
22:11It's not going to be a quick fix.
22:12But she may realize, you know, he just needs more time and it may not be the right fit.
22:19Yeah.
22:20Ethan really needs to work on Ethan.
22:23He gets triggered by some things and I don't know what the solution to that is.
22:28I don't know if it's healthy for him to try to make a relationship work when he's in the state
22:33of the psychological mindset that he's in.
22:36You know, neither one of us are the world's best communicators.
22:40I mean, I had to talk to Ethan before he got married about sex because you never talk to him,
22:47right?
22:49She's like, so I got some advice for you and you're about to get married.
22:54She says, there's two holes.
23:01Make sure you get the right one.
23:07I usually get blamed for not being a good communicator more than you do.
23:13Right.
23:13Right.
23:15Anyway.
23:16And then Lydia flew in and rode back with me.
23:20So did you hash out all the issues of life?
23:23You know, there was one thing that she posted online recently.
23:29She was talking about Joshua and it was hard for me because, I mean, she was blaming.
23:37I feel like it was us, but it was more me, not for Joshua's death, but for for her not
23:44being able to handle it afterwards.
23:49Most of that blame fell on me and you had a whole package to deal with.
23:54Oh, yeah.
23:55I mean, I had we both did.
23:56I don't know that anybody can be equipped for dealing with the loss of their brother, you know, or their
24:03child, you know.
24:05In the beginning, Kim couldn't talk about the accident.
24:08Right.
24:09Right.
24:09Because it was it was just rough.
24:13Kim was in a storm of her own that she didn't know how to get out of because Kim just
24:20couldn't.
24:21When that happened, Lydia was like four.
24:25You can talk about it with a four year old.
24:27But what did they take away from that?
24:30So I don't know if it's fair for Lydia to say that.
24:34It can still sting.
24:36We all had to deal with that.
24:37Because, I mean, I still have the play by play of everything that I saw that day.
24:43And sometimes it goes through my head.
24:46And I but I can't I'm not going to verbalize it, you know, like I can't.
24:53I feel like Lydia is struggling with Joshua's death and I I hate that for her, especially
25:03because, you know, I was an integral part of the accident.
25:07Clearly, we I mean, we both have scars or trauma from that event.
25:12I hate hearing how, you know, that she went through all of that and that she's still going
25:18through that.
25:18But I also keep hearing about things that Lydia and Zach have been saying and doing with,
25:25you know, to other people.
25:26I mean, I feel like at this point, the air needs to be cleared with everyone.
25:31There is one thing I need to talk about.
25:34I also need child support.
25:37I'm giving you.
25:38You're giving me half.
25:39That's all I can afford.
25:41I cannot indefinitely get half child support.
25:49He's not paying me the full amount of child support until his house sells.
25:54It's been on the market for a year.
25:55It's not selling.
25:57We're five years into being separated and I'm still waiting for child support.
26:06All right.
26:07I think it's raining now, but I'll make a quick run.
26:11Bye.
26:39So today I'm working on building some benches.
26:42I've started just doing that kind of on the side.
26:43I enjoy it.
26:44And I'm making a bench for my mom because she had mentioned that she wanted one.
26:49This morning, I think she's going to come by and check it out.
26:53Hey, what's up, Ethan?
26:54Good morning.
26:55How was your flight last night?
26:57No, it was fine.
26:59I'm back in Georgia.
27:00See everybody.
27:02It's Lydia and Zach's anniversary of their wedding.
27:05So that'll be going on next week.
27:08You miss it down here or are you glad you're up in Wisconsin?
27:12No, I'm glad I'm up there.
27:15Well, that's good.
27:17Miss you down here though, for sure.
27:24Hey.
27:25What's up?
27:25Hey.
27:26How are you guys doing?
27:27Good, how about you?
27:29Good.
27:30I hadn't seen you in a while.
27:31Yeah, I hadn't seen you in a while.
27:32I hadn't seen you.
27:33How are you doing?
27:34Good.
27:34How about you?
27:35I saw you last night.
27:36Yeah.
27:38Good to see you.
27:39Wow, this is looking good.
27:41Yeah, thanks.
27:43How's it going with Tegan?
27:45Oh, it's going good.
27:46Good.
27:47I'm talking and spending some time together here and there.
27:50Yeah.
27:51So are you guys dating now or not yet?
27:54No, not officially.
27:54Just friends still?
27:55Yeah.
27:56Okay.
27:57Oh yeah, Tegan's coming down next weekend.
28:00Oh, good.
28:00So should I see all you guys again?
28:02Yeah, good.
28:03That'll be fun.
28:05Yep.
28:07Things are going okay in Wisconsin.
28:09Me and Tegan have seen each other like once or twice.
28:11I found a therapist that I think I like.
28:16But sometimes it's good to have like just a neutral party.
28:21And, you know, that can help you, maybe give you some pointers on how to deal with stuff
28:24instead of it all not being up in your head.
28:28How did your road trip back from Wisconsin go?
28:32Oh, it was good.
28:33We had some interesting conversations on the drive back.
28:37We talked about what happened with her and Zach in Montana, stuff like that.
28:41And was there anything particular?
28:42He said, I know he was telling Mariah she shouldn't be drinking.
28:46Well, I drink around him all the time.
28:49He's never told me I shouldn't drink.
28:51I would love for him to.
28:52Yeah, he was like, he was like, you have alcohol in your house.
28:54You got card games that don't honor God.
28:57The TV shows you watch don't honor God.
28:58And was like, you literally were brought into her house.
29:03She lent you her car for the weekend.
29:05Now you want to sit her down, tell her what she's doing wrong because you think what she's
29:08doing doesn't honor God.
29:09Out in Montana, he would only talk to the girls when I was awake.
29:16I went out to Montana on the second trip with Kaelin, Amber, Zach, and Lydia.
29:22When I was not around, he was pulling the girls out the side and talking, telling them
29:27that Mariah shouldn't have this in her house.
29:29She shouldn't have this playing.
29:30They shouldn't listen to this kind of music.
29:32All this stuff that is just a normal person would know their place and be like, okay,
29:37I personally disagree with that, but it's not my place to go and tell them what they can
29:41and cannot do when I'm being welcomed into their home.
29:45It makes me so mad.
29:52In terms of Lydia and Zach, I don't know.
29:55I just feel like if we're supposed to live our lives so that everything we do honors God,
30:01that's got to come from within.
30:03In some ways, you know, I can see myself, a younger me in Lydia and Zach.
30:08They're full of zeal and passionate about their faith.
30:12I'm still like that, but it's just definitely aged and mellowed and it's a calmer, more adult
30:20version, just kind of talking to God like a friend, you know.
30:26That's between you and God.
30:27It's not for other people to look at your life and all your details and pick out what
30:31you're doing wrong, because the Bible says focus on the log in your eye before you go
30:34pointing out the speck in somebody else's.
30:37The self-righteous, I am better than you.
30:41What you're doing is immorally wrong.
30:42You need to do what I'm doing and I'm here to guide you.
30:45And unfortunately, you see a lot of that in Christianity.
30:46A lot of people who.
30:48Yeah, is using God.
30:50That makes me sick.
30:50To control other people.
30:51That makes me sick.
30:52Yeah, really pissing me off.
30:53But I mean, they'll have to answer to him one day about that.
30:57Lydia and I also talked about how she thinks that I've been coping with Joshua.
31:04That's like the most intimate, personal stuff about me that she could say.
31:11Lydia went through that trauma along with the rest of the family.
31:15She was there and she has scars from it, just like all of the rest of us.
31:21It's almost too overwhelming to think about the pain that I've caused everyone else.
31:26So I really haven't wanted to look directly at that because it's too painful.
31:33She was blaming me for not equipping her to deal with it.
31:37But I can't.
31:39I couldn't then.
31:40I still can't.
31:41Yeah, I know.
31:41You know?
31:42Lydia and Zach don't just talk about it to their friends or something.
31:45They go on a public platform and talk about the most intimate, hurtful, dark time of my mom's life.
31:53In extreme detail.
31:55They've gone deep into it more than I think should have been.
32:00I can understand where my mom's coming from,
32:03especially after what they had said that they're not going to tolerate talking about people like that.
32:08Any concerns you have, please come to us.
32:12Because if I find out that they're still gossiping about Zach and I,
32:17I will not tolerate it.
32:20I don't get it.
32:21Am I missing something?
32:22Or was there like a fine print when they said that?
32:26Well, regardless of what anybody else has to say about that whole event and stuff,
32:30you've done good going through that and then still raising nine kids.
32:35You did good.
32:37Yeah.
32:40That's the first time that Isaac has said that to me about admiring me for being strong enough to get
32:47through that and still raise a family.
32:50And that means a lot.
32:52If you, like, if you never want to talk about it with me, I'd be perfectly fine with it.
32:56Yeah.
32:57Because I can't imagine going through that.
33:02It is really hard for me to talk about Joshua, but I know that Lydia wants to talk about it.
33:09So I have an appointment with a counselor to talk through some of these things, and maybe she could help
33:16me with my grieving.
33:28But I really feel like, um, I kind of feel like that's a scab I don't really want to pick
33:36open.
33:38And so I'm hoping that she'll give me some insight into, I don't know, just how to have this family
33:48conversation that's very painful.
33:53She wasn't the one that accidentally, you know, was responsible for what happened.
33:58Yeah.
33:59And then you've had to live with that and deal with that ever since.
34:03When I first heard Lydia talking about Joshua online, my heart broke for her, just knowing, knowing that she's still
34:11hurting.
34:12But it also has this feeling of all of that guilt all over again.
34:17I've had a lot of guilt that I've had to deal with, and it just was like ripping that open
34:22for me all over again.
34:24Lydia was speculating on why Barry and I divorced, um, and saying that it had to do with Joshua, which
34:33it actually had nothing to do with that at all.
34:36That's why, I mean, I've been trying everything I can to be on good terms with them.
34:40And I have, too, tried really hard to be on good terms with them.
34:43If she's doing that to process it or heal, you're not going to find any healing in that.
34:50Yeah.
34:51It would make things worse.
34:52I feel like the solution is we just all get together and talk to Lydia and Zach about all of
35:00that.
35:01Yeah.
35:02Yeah.
35:03Before we can really have this healing conversation about around Joshua, um, we kind of need to address how Lydia
35:14and Zach have sat people down in the family and told them they're not living right.
35:19These things need to be discussed.
35:22You can't burn a bridge with the family they're just married into and then expect it to go well.
35:27Yeah, there's some things to talk about.
35:32As much as it hurts me, the pain, like, I've never felt pain like that before.
35:37Yeah.
35:38To know that I inflicted that same pain on all of my children.
35:46It's more than I can bear.
35:48I can't.
36:03Today I'm meeting with Dr. Ty.
36:05She was Micah's therapist and I was really impressed with her.
36:09I have some issues I wanted to talk with her about Joshua and his death and some issues that Lydia
36:16brought up and looking forward to it, not looking forward to it.
36:22Hi.
36:23Hello.
36:24How are you?
36:24Good.
36:25How are you doing?
36:26I'm doing well.
36:26I'm Dr. Ty.
36:27Hi.
36:28Good to meet you.
36:28You as well.
36:29You as well.
36:30You as well.
36:31Right.
36:32So, let's just jump into it.
36:34Okay.
36:34Tell me a little bit about what brings you in today.
36:36Well, we lost a son in 2008 and he was 17 months old and it was one of those things
36:48where I was moving a vehicle on the property and ran over him.
36:53Okay.
36:55And we now have nine children.
36:58The older ones were all there when it happened.
37:01Mm-hmm.
37:02Initially, I wasn't able to talk about it or, like, anything.
37:06Mm-hmm.
37:06Like, I was, for several months, I just was totally shut down.
37:11I'm fine now, but trying to navigate, like, recently, one of my daughters went online and was blaming me for
37:24not giving her what she needed to be able to grieve or heal.
37:31Or move forward or whatever.
37:33And next week, we're having a family meeting.
37:35We're all coming together and we're gonna talk.
37:37Mm-hmm.
37:37And I don't feel like I have anything to offer them.
37:42The daughter.
37:43Has she communicated to you directly what she wants from you or what she's hoping to get from you?
37:49No.
37:50Have you asked her?
37:51No.
37:52Okay.
37:53She did a play-by-play of exactly where she was every moment that it happened.
38:00Mm-hmm.
38:01And I can't listen to that.
38:03Okay.
38:03Like, I have my own play-by-play of what happened that day.
38:07Mm-hmm.
38:07And sometimes it runs through my head, but I'll never verbalize that.
38:13It's too painful.
38:15Yeah.
38:16I don't wanna relive that day.
38:17Yeah.
38:17You know?
38:18Yeah.
38:18Yeah.
38:19She's wanting something from you that she maybe feels like maybe she never got before.
38:24Because you said there was a period of time for months where...
38:27Sobbing constantly and, oh, God help me, were like the only things I could say during that time.
38:33Kim is definitely dealing with some guilt and some shame.
38:36Her daughter put her on blast.
38:38And whatever she might be saying, Kim may be seeing herself in that way anyway.
38:42So that means that what I see, what I think about myself, may actually be true.
38:47And so she's struggling.
38:51She's struggling.
38:52I was also pregnant at the time with my next child, Amber.
38:57I thought that when she was born, then it would get better.
39:04But it didn't, it got worse.
39:07I guess because it didn't get better, it was kind of like the realization that nothing is gonna fix this.
39:15Nothing is gonna help.
39:17How did it get worse?
39:18I just, I just, I felt worse.
39:21I didn't, I couldn't look at her.
39:22I couldn't look her in the eye.
39:25I couldn't sing to her.
39:27Yeah.
39:28Um, I would hold her and I would nurse her, but I just, um, what makes it so hard for
39:38me to hear from the children, as much as it hurts me, the pain, like I've never felt pain like
39:47that before.
39:47Yeah.
39:53To know that I inflicted that same pain on all of my children, and they have to feel that pain
40:02too.
40:05It's more than I can bear.
40:07I can't, I can't, I can't bear thinking about how much I hurt everybody.
40:23I know you said that you wanted us to all talk about Joshua.
40:27So, uh, I'm ready to do that now.
40:30Okay.
40:31I'm a little nervous about sitting down and talking with everybody.
40:35But if Lydia needs me, I want to be here for Lydia.
40:39I hope I can keep myself composed.
40:42Just some stuff that's been getting under my skin.
40:45Ethan's a wild card, so he might confront Zach.
40:50I know he's very protective of me.
40:52I feel like there's some things that we might want to talk about.
40:57I'll be in the kitchen.
40:58Okay.
40:59I'm aware that everybody's gonna have a chat about stuff, and I didn't feel like I needed to be a
41:06part of it.
41:07Zach, all the critiques that you give to the younger kids, Mariah, you know, talk to me about her, and
41:14I feel like it's an overstep.
41:18Man, so I'm a problem for the whole family.
41:20God, cool.
41:21I'm a good sister.
41:22Let's go, to the room and see you next time.
41:28Yeah.
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