00:00And I trust our next guest here on the Wiseheart Ride.
00:02We make it right.
00:03Call Kyle Wright Hotline, NFL insider at Bleacher Report, James Palmer.
00:08Welcome to the show, James.
00:10Well, I want to hear about this Johnny Carson situation.
00:13I mean, I don't mind if it bites into my time, to be entirely honest.
00:16I want to hear about this.
00:17All right.
00:17There's some allegations.
00:19Again, I don't know if these are founded,
00:21but there's some allegations that Johnny had some problems with race.
00:25Okay.
00:26Interesting.
00:27Okay.
00:27Right?
00:28Didn't know.
00:28I had no idea what Johnny Carson, zero.
00:30Now you see why I didn't want to bring it up right now.
00:32I thought Johnny was like America's sweetheart for so long,
00:34and then Nick brought in the D-dub that he had,
00:36and I was like, well, that overtly makes you a bad decision maker.
00:41I don't know that overtly makes you the worst human to ever exist,
00:43but, hey, it is what it is.
00:45I thought you were going to say sauce, but then you went to race.
00:48Okay.
00:48Let's go.
00:49All right.
00:50So.
00:53All right.
00:54So I saw one of your things out there,
00:57your videos out there about the Miles Garrett trade,
00:59talking about how this could be a win-win.
01:01So just walk us through kind of your stance on the Brown side of the Miles
01:05Garrett trade.
01:07Yeah.
01:08I mean,
01:08when I started kind of asking around and,
01:10and,
01:11you know,
01:11talking to people in the building and seeing what was going on,
01:13it made actually more and more sense in all honesty,
01:16the more I broke it down.
01:18And the first one is really the timelines.
01:20The timelines don't add up.
01:21And I know you guys have probably heard that plenty,
01:23but it really hasn't.
01:24And it hasn't really since they decided,
01:26you know,
01:27that they're really looking for another quarterback.
01:28And I think they've shown that in this trade and some other moves that,
01:32that the quarterback of the future is not on the roster.
01:34And if that's the case,
01:36obviously it's going to be a young guy coming in your,
01:38your timeline with where Miles is at 30.
01:41And,
01:42and you're not going to be maybe very,
01:44very competitive.
01:44And a lot of people across the NFL that I've talked to his eyes until maybe
01:4728,
01:48like it just doesn't add up.
01:50And can you get enough back for him?
01:53I think they got more than what they would have gotten,
01:55honestly,
01:56a year ago,
01:56even though he's a year older,
01:58he ends up getting the sack record.
02:00They end up finding themselves in a different spot.
02:02Financially,
02:02they end up paying some of the,
02:04obviously the contract,
02:05the first portion of it.
02:06And I think this deal actually nets them probably more now than it would have
02:10maybe a season ago.
02:12The second part of it is that they wanted to make sure that they could take
02:15care of themselves in the short and longterm.
02:16And I know Andrew Barry said that,
02:17but I had heard that pretty early on that making sure that you could get a
02:21premier player back and picks are outstanding and first round picks are
02:25great,
02:25but they're also prospects.
02:27You haven't seen them play it down.
02:28You've seen what Jared Burst can do.
02:30We we've seen that he has a chance to be really,
02:32really good.
02:32I mean,
02:32the Rams think the world of him,
02:34the Rams think he could be Terrell Suggs in all honesty.
02:36So to help yourself in the,
02:39in the near future and in the extended future to help you get that
02:43quarterback with the other first round pick,
02:45I think those parts play the biggest aspect of it.
02:48And then financially,
02:48the third part is,
02:49you know,
02:50you do free yourself up financially in some capacity.
02:52You're going to hit this cap like real quick here in,
02:56in 2027,
02:57this dead money that's going to be,
02:59you know,
02:59with Sean and him,
03:00it's going to be huge,
03:00but I think it allows you to turn the page pretty quickly.
03:03And you look at the draft classes and get into it,
03:05what they could do at the quarterback spot.
03:07But to me,
03:08this was probably the most they could have gotten for him.
03:11Um,
03:12and you know,
03:13the pick's going to be low anyways,
03:15because whoever's going after miles Garrett is most likely going to be,
03:18I don't know,
03:19really,
03:19really good with miles Garrett.
03:21So it's not going to be at the top of the draft.
03:22Anyways,
03:23all these things were,
03:24were talked about and discussed and they understand them.
03:27Um,
03:28but I do think when you look at all of it,
03:30this probably puts you in the best position when you finally understood that
03:33you were going through a rebuild.
03:34And this is very similar to what the Raiders tried to do in admitting to
03:39themselves.
03:39They weren't a year away.
03:40They were a couple of years away when they wanted to do the Max Crosby trade.
03:43And this is really,
03:44in my opinion,
03:46the Browns doing exactly that.
03:47Well,
03:47I bet the problem is that not problem,
03:49but it just exists is that this is now year three,
03:52then that you're going to tell Browns fans,
03:54because you know,
03:54you're a three win team two years ago,
03:56you're a five win team last year,
03:57and you're going to be a five to seven win team this year.
03:59And it's just the packaging of that is kind of the reality that Browns fans
04:03have existed with in dealing with this trade.
04:05When can Browns fans expect to be good again?
04:10That is hard.
04:10I mean,
04:11it's a hard sell.
04:11Nobody wants to be sold that.
04:12You know,
04:13who also never wants to be sold that is your veteran players in the locker
04:15room.
04:16And the word wasn't be sold that right.
04:18Veterans don't want to hear that we're three years away.
04:20This is my career.
04:21This is where I'm at right now in this spot.
04:22So it's a really difficult balancing act.
04:25The teams that are looking to reshape their franchise have to go through.
04:29It's,
04:30it's extremely difficult.
04:31And I think you could look at,
04:33you know,
04:34the dead money to me,
04:36if you want to eat all of it in 27,
04:39you have that opportunity.
04:41It could be like a hundred million dollars.
04:45But you put yourself in 28 in maybe as good of financial capacity.
04:51And most likely you're,
04:53you're,
04:54you're quarterbacks on a rookie contract and hopefully you pick the right
04:56one.
04:57And you're financially as flexible as anybody in the NFL and where you're at.
05:01And you still have the young core that you've developed.
05:04And I think obviously we all know how good the last draft class was.
05:07I think this was a really good one as well.
05:09And if all of that comes together,
05:11I I'm hoping it's,
05:12it's 28.
05:14That,
05:14that,
05:14that would be my thought if you,
05:16if you hit on the quarterback and that's the big,
05:18you know,
05:19that's the big one.
05:20I mean,
05:20this trade doesn't matter.
05:21I don't think honestly,
05:22if you don't hit on a quarterback,
05:24James looking to the LA side of things,
05:27because I don't,
05:28I don't think there's anyone who believes this isn't going to work out for
05:31miles Garrett in the Rams,
05:33at least in the short term here.
05:35So what is,
05:35what's the bare minimum that has to happen for the Rams and Garrett for this
05:40to,
05:40for this to really everybody to look and say,
05:43all right,
05:43no matter what happens on the Cleveland side,
05:45this is a successful trade.
05:47Yeah,
05:48I think they have to win a Superbowl.
05:49I really do.
05:50I mean,
05:51for miles individually,
05:52with,
05:53you look at the other guys that are on that offensive line with Colby
05:55Turner and you look at,
05:56you know,
05:57Fisk and you look at how,
05:58you know,
05:58the number of leads that they most likely to be playing with.
06:01I mean,
06:01he could shatter the 23 sacks that he had this past year.
06:04Now.
06:05So individually,
06:05could he,
06:06could he break his own record?
06:07That obviously propels him even further into being in the conversation as
06:12the greatest defensive player potentially ever.
06:14I mean,
06:15he could be in that conversation for sure.
06:17I think he's working his way into it.
06:18So individually,
06:19that's the case,
06:19but there could be a chance that they did this.
06:22And Matthew Stafford retires after the 2026 season,
06:26whether they win a Superbowl or not.
06:27And then to me,
06:28that actually does tie into the Browns because if Stafford ends up retiring
06:32and,
06:33and part of the reason I think that they were really able to be aggressive
06:35and give this first round pick in 27 to the Browns was that the pick of
06:40Ty Simpson,
06:40like they feel like they're not part of the teams looking with the Browns
06:44included and say the jets and then the Cardinals and some other teams,
06:47the dolphins are looking for quarterbacks in 27.
06:50They feel like they're not part of that because they picked Ty Simpson.
06:52So we can give up our first round pick.
06:54Well,
06:54if Ty Simpson doesn't pan out and Matthew Stafford,
06:57retires after the 26th season,
07:00like it happened once before the Rams ended up having given away a first
07:03round pick.
07:04That was,
07:04I think the sixth overall to the lions,
07:06right.
07:06When they did try for staff.
07:07So,
07:08I mean,
07:09they could be in,
07:11in a difficult spot.
07:11If this doesn't work out,
07:12I think it's almost a one possibly two year window.
07:16There's no guarantees Stafford place for them in 27,
07:19even with the contract deal that they did.
07:22Should the Browns trade Denzel Ward?
07:26You know,
07:26I was asked that on my,
07:27on my show on Bleacher Report.
07:28And,
07:28you know,
07:28I was,
07:28I was thinking about this,
07:29like there is a part of it that's going on right now in your building that you,
07:34you do have to,
07:34and I mentioned this earlier,
07:36sell to the rest of your organization that this is not a full on fire sale.
07:39Like,
07:39it's not like you still have to have guys play.
07:42You still have to have guys go out there and compete.
07:44And I think like the dolphins are kind of going through that.
07:46I mean,
07:46this,
07:47this rebuild in Miami is just,
07:48you know,
07:49it's massive,
07:50but you still have to sell a little bit like Devon H and staying right.
07:54You know what I mean?
07:54Like you can't ship off waddle and everybody.
07:57And so,
07:57I mean,
07:58I think,
07:58I think it's TBD in a sense,
08:00because you also have to see how the year goes.
08:02You also have to see what the market is,
08:03but you know,
08:05I think these are,
08:06these are the difficult spots that they're in when,
08:07when you've now finally fully admitted that the,
08:11that the rebuild is,
08:12is,
08:13is exactly what exactly what it is.
08:15James,
08:15it's,
08:16it's weird to say the other June 1st trade involved AJ Brown,
08:21who's quite good at football himself a year from now,
08:24who are we saying won the AJ Brown trade?
08:27I'll say this before.
08:28Before I get to that,
08:29I know Browns fans are upset and I know I talked to people at the golf
08:32tournament that was going on and it was a difficult day for a lot of
08:36people.
08:36I think it was harder to be in Philadelphia than it was in Cleveland.
08:40You give up a top five receiver to honestly,
08:43there is a,
08:44I'm from Philly.
08:44There is a massive rivalry between Boston and Philadelphia.
08:47It is a rival for you.
08:49And the Rams got better.
08:51Like one of your biggest competitions in the NFC gets miles Garrett.
08:54It was a bad day in Philadelphia.
08:57I do think this is a huge,
09:00huge year,
09:01honestly,
09:02in Philadelphia for Jalen hurts and Nick Sirianni.
09:04Like it's really a big year.
09:06And I do think AJ Brown's going to play.
09:08Well,
09:08I think there's a lot to like about him playing with Josh McDaniels.
09:11And this though,
09:13to me is a,
09:14is a two year,
09:15maybe three year situation with AJ Brown.
09:18I know enough people around the league have told me that it does look like
09:21he's lost a step in essence,
09:22obviously as he approaches 30 with the knee issues that he's had.
09:26I think Philly is,
09:28is always playing the long game.
09:30And if you look at the two teams and where they're at in terms of roster building and team building,
09:36I would probably give the edge to how he Roseman in terms of how he's built his team for sustained
09:41success compared to what we've seen in this short regime in New England.
09:46And I think New England takes honestly,
09:48even with AJ,
09:49a pretty good step back this year.
09:51Todd Munkin today said every day he leans one way or another with the quarterbacks.
09:55Today was a good day for Shador.
09:57I had a lot of nice passes in there.
09:58Not as good of a day for Deshaun Watson,
10:00according to the people that were out there.
10:01What are you hearing about the quarterback race with the Browns?
10:05The buzz around the league.
10:06And obviously I'm not there in Cleveland,
10:07but when I talk to executives and GMs and assistant GMs and coaches and stuff around the league,
10:12it's like the feeling is that Deshaun's going to win the job.
10:16And that's for a few reasons,
10:18obviously.
10:19I think the main one is like you spent all this money,
10:22all these draft picks,
10:23you might as well,
10:24you know,
10:24see if the guy can,
10:25can really have sustained play,
10:27even though the injuries and everything,
10:28I mean,
10:28it's been,
10:29you know,
10:29obviously has not gone anywhere near what anybody thought it was going to go,
10:32but that's the buzz around the league is that like Deshaun's most likely going to win the job.
10:37And I do understand that because there is a greater chance.
10:40And we've seen this in the NFL.
10:42If we want to look at the sample sizes of first round,
10:46picks,
10:46which Deshaun was like hitting the skids and playing poorly,
10:50and then coming back around a second time around,
10:54you've seen it with a lot of the guys that are starters.
10:56Now there's a greater chance of that because you were a top of the draft talent and coming back in
11:00some capacity,
11:02whether it's with a different team,
11:03which would really stink for Browns fans.
11:05If he all of a sudden plays great somewhere else,
11:06I don't know if I see that.
11:08I'm just playing the percentages of that being more likely than a guy picked towards the bottom of the draft
11:13in the fifth round.
11:14It's just,
11:15if you look at it,
11:16that's a more likely scenario to have to play out in the league because we've seen it before.
11:23James,
11:23great stuff,
11:24man.
11:24Always appreciate your time there.
11:26Enjoyed talking Johnny Carson,
11:27this big trade,
11:29all the great stuff.
11:30I hope you enjoyed the content like we did this week.
11:33Oh,
11:33it was great.
11:34It's been,
11:34it's been wild.
11:35I mean,
11:35it's the beginning of June and the NFL still reigns supreme.
11:38It's,
11:38it's awesome.
11:39I'd love to talk quarterbacks with you guys.
11:41Have me back soon.
11:41I got it.
11:42I got a sleeper that the Browns can go with and I'll save it for next time.
11:46Oh,
11:46that's not going to hear it.
11:47Can you just give it to us now?
11:49Cause I might not remember next time I'm in my forties there,
11:52James.
11:53I'll text your producer.
11:54I'll say,
11:54listen,
11:54let's not wait too long before we do this.
11:56Perfect.
11:57But we got to have a tease.
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