00:00But on with us right now is somebody who did an excellent job.
00:04If you read the Boston Globe, he's got an article on there right now
00:07that is a very well-sourced, comprehensive article about Craig Breslow.
00:14The name of the article is, Are the Red Sox Better Off Now
00:16Than When They Hired Craig Breslow as a Chief Baseball Officer?
00:20And Tim Healy joins us right now.
00:23Tim, thanks for coming on the show with us.
00:24We really appreciate it.
00:26Thanks for having me.
00:27I'm happy to.
00:27So, Tim, real quick, before we get into your article,
00:31did you hear this Caleb Durbin news about how he on his own
00:34went to a batting coach up in Andover outside of the team?
00:40Yeah, I did.
00:41I saw it on Twitter the other day.
00:44I talked with Caleb Durbin about it.
00:47And then he had a few good hits.
00:49So it's not uncommon.
00:53It's, you know, the in-season aspect of it is a little unusual.
00:58My understanding is he went with a teammate that day to this independent facility,
01:03the name of which is escaping me.
01:05So apologies to the independent facility.
01:08He went with a teammate that day and wanted to hear them out and, you know,
01:13hung around for a little while.
01:15So, you know, I'm not sure Caleb Durbin is attributing his handful of hits to
01:19that facility.
01:20But nonetheless, what does that say, Tim, about the lack of resources within the Red Sox?
01:28Shouldn't they have hitting coaches and they good enough to where you don't have to go on
01:33your own outside of the organization?
01:38I don't think a lack of resources is the problem for the Red Sox.
01:41They have hitting coaches, honestly, a bunch of hitting coaches on the Major League staff.
01:46They got rid of some others earlier in the season, of course.
01:50I guess a lack of effective resources is the way I should have phrased it.
01:55Well, so here's more related thoughts from me on this.
01:59One, it is routine these days for a Major League hitter to have his own hitting coach.
02:07Usually that happens in the offseason.
02:10Oftentimes that independent hitting coach is in communication with the guy over the course
02:16of the season.
02:17So that part of it is not unusual.
02:20Two, Caleb Durbin was new to the team this year, got to know some hitting coaches,
02:26struggled the first few weeks as he continued to work with those hitting coaches,
02:30and then they got fired.
02:32And then new guys came in, and he got to know them.
02:35So it's been a lot of voices in a very short amount of time for Caleb Durbin.
02:40Obviously, not a whole lot has worked.
02:42So that he is not necessarily seeking, but at least hearing out these third parties
02:50is just part of it, I guess.
02:51It's been an eventful and largely unproductive year or a couple of months for Caleb Durbin, rather.
02:58Well, Tim, over to your article, which is very interesting.
03:00I mean, I thought to me the most fascinating is the Theo Epstein intel that you got
03:04from multiple Major League sources.
03:06Can you disseminate that, I guess, summarize what you're hearing about how Theo feels
03:12about Craig Breslow right now?
03:14Sure.
03:15Well, what we put in the article is that Theo Epstein is disappointed in the way Craig
03:22Breslow has basically built the front office, the hardcore analytical nature of it, as opposed
03:31to analytics balanced with more traditional pro scouting, et cetera, which was interesting
03:38to hear from, honestly, a variety of people from around baseball and around the Red Sox.
03:44And it lines up with a couple of things.
03:48One is Theo Epstein made a rare public speaking appearance last week on a podcast on the Foul
03:55Territory Network.
03:56And I didn't even see this clip until today after the story came out.
04:00But he was talking on that podcast about how to go all in on analytics leads you in the wrong
04:08direction.
04:09And baseball is swung too much, too, too wholeheartedly in that direction.
04:16And what you need is the human aspect as well.
04:19And that sort of some of those intangibles that come along with that.
04:22When Theo stepped away from the Cubs after the 2019 season, he said that he felt guilty, basically.
04:32And I'm paraphrasing here, I don't think he used the word guilty, but he basically felt
04:36guilty for the role he has played this century in baseball in ushering in this data-based
04:45analytical version of baseball.
04:48Because that is, of course, what he did when he was Red Sox GM.
04:52They lost out on Billy Bean, they hired Theo Epstein, and he was a moneyball-ish figure for
05:00sure in the mid to late 2000s, to great success with the Red Sox, of course.
05:06And next thing you know, virtually every franchise in baseball is operating with the numbers as
05:13number one.
05:14And he felt bad about the role he played in what baseball has become, which is aesthetically
05:20not pleasing, as he said.
05:23It just seems lazy, doesn't it?
05:25I mean, it almost seems like you have a...
05:27Because you can use analytics as a tool that helps you, but it's the getting to know the
05:32players, speaking with them, seeing them play, having scouts there.
05:36If you just do simply numbers, doesn't that just seem like a lazy way to manage?
05:43Yeah, I am in favor in journalism, this is true, and in baseball and sports, this is true.
05:50It's probably true for you guys as well.
05:53I'm in favor of doing the work and putting in the hours and drawing a conclusion and operating
06:01in that way.
06:03So in journalism, for example, I talked to a bunch of people for this article and learned
06:08some things that I didn't previously know and then wrote the article.
06:11And if I had just looked at statistical analysis of the Red Sox, for example, then I would not
06:17have had the same kind of story.
06:20For in baseball, yes, the analytics are super important.
06:25Nobody really is doubting that.
06:27But you need to balance it with, as you said, having people watch these players in person
06:32and learning about who they are as people and what makes them tick.
06:35And if this guy will fit into this group of players in a chemistry personality way.
06:41So it requires more work, a different kind of work, and a different kind of caring.
06:49Were you surprised, Tim, that basically Breslow said to you that he kind of maybe underestimated
06:56the importance of that dynamic of an interpersonal relationship with the general manager and players?
07:02Even though he played for as long as he did, he thought it was kind of understood that he
07:09didn't have to have that relationship.
07:11But now he's learning that he does.
07:13Did that come as a surprise to you?
07:16That did come as a surprise to me because, as you noted, Craig Breslow was not only a big
07:22leaguer, but he was a big leaguer for a long time, parts of 12 seasons, I believe.
07:26So he's a guy who has been traded, he's been cut, DFA'd, claimed on waivers, signed new
07:34major league contracts.
07:36Like, on the transaction log, Craig Breslow did it all.
07:39And he won a World Series with the Red Sox in 2013.
07:42He had a string of very solid seasons as a left-handed release pitcher.
07:47So I don't know what happened along the way or since then that he would discount or take
07:58for granted the value of conversations and relationships.
08:03It was also striking because around this time last year, really after the Rafael Devers trade,
08:10Craig Breslow was doing the, you know, talking to players on the ground level, building relationships,
08:18making himself available sort of thing.
08:21And it just seemed like, in the last month or so, another round of that.
08:26So I'm not, it's, yes, to answer your question, yes, it did surprise me.
08:30So Tim, after talking to all of these people, does it feel like anything's going to change?
08:34I mean, at least it sounds like Breslow was somewhat self-reflective with that comment.
08:39And, you know, when you have someone like Theo saying what he said, it almost sounds like
08:45he's trying to send a message.
08:46But does that mean anything?
08:48Like, do you believe that any of this will cause some sort of change in the direction that
08:53they're going?
08:56Well, people can change for sure.
08:58You know, to win back Theo, for example, if he indeed has lost Theo, if Theo's disappointed
09:07right now, then Craig Breslow at any time can toggle back a little bit toward the human element.
09:16He is free to do that.
09:17If he will, I don't know.
09:20I don't know.
09:21So, Tim, obviously Theo's an owner.
09:23He's a minority owner, but he is an owner.
09:24I mean, your piece reads like they're trying to light a fire under Breslow.
09:29Should I read it that way?
09:30Is that accurate?
09:30Are they trying to shake him up a little bit?
09:34I would not read it that way because it's not like Theo Epstein came to me and planted
09:40the story.
09:43If, you know, so the, yes, this information is now out there via my story, but it's not
09:51like the Red Sox planted this or the, you know, the Red Sox are going public so that,
09:58you know, maybe Craig Breslow finally changes his tune.
10:03That's, that's not, you know, what's going on.
10:06You know what?
10:06At least on my end, maybe that's happening without my knowledge.
10:10Who's to say?
10:11So, Tim, and I know this is going to be a weird way to ask this, but how does it
10:15feel
10:15as far as like the chemistry between management players?
10:20I mean, there's been movement, obviously, with a new manager, you know, these people
10:24going outside the organization to get batting help.
10:28Like, does it seem chaotic or does it seem at all, or does it seem like they just don't
10:34care or is everybody upset that they're not winning?
10:37What's the vibe like?
10:38Because that says a lot about where this team's head is at.
10:43It all comes down to winning and success on the field.
10:47And all of everything we've talked about comes back to that.
10:52If Caleb Durbin had been hitting well, he would not have gone to that other hitting facility.
10:58If the Red Sox were winning, then there might not even be a bigger, deeper, big picture look
11:06at the Craig Breslow era to date.
11:09So, it's all about that.
11:12If the Red Sox were winning, then who knows?
11:14Maybe Theo Epstein would like the way Craig Breslow is going about business.
11:18So, every effort that is being made by all involved parties, including firing the manager
11:26and a bunch of coaches, all of that is in an effort to win.
11:29Because the Red Sox are out to win.
11:32They aren't just moseying along, going through the motions.
11:37And that's true at the front office level.
11:38It's true of the players.
11:39It's true of the new manager and coaching staff.
11:42So, if they did win a few games or if they went on a hot streak and got back to
11:48or over
11:49500, then, yeah, the vibes would be a lot better and a lot less desperate.
11:53But, right now, things like firing the manager, going to another hitting coach, etc., it's
12:01just, you know, merging on desperation.
12:03Well, Tim Healy, the article is fantastic.
12:06As I said, it was very well sourced.
12:08And I'm not surprised by a lot of it because I kind of figured that's what was going on.
12:13But to hear, actually, people on record saying it, you know, I would like to think that,
12:18as Ken said, it's a fire under their butt.
12:19But who the hell knows, now that it's out there, you know, hopefully someone's tacking
12:23it around, you know, the offices over there at Fenway and maybe, just maybe, we'll have
12:28some sort of change.
12:29But, Tim, great stuff.
12:29We appreciate you coming on with us to talk about it.
12:31Thanks, Tim.
12:33Thank you very much.
12:34Hope the show's going well.
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