- 6 hours ago
Gary Williams joins the Junks live at Starboard to chat about the show turning 30 and Maryland basketball.
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00:00It's Gary Williams, National Championship at the University of Maryland.
00:04Come on, make some noise. Let's go.
00:05Coach Gary Williams.
00:06Coach Gary Williams.
00:08Legend.
00:09Absolute legend.
00:10Natty champ. Natty champ.
00:11So, Coach, E.B. and I, you know, we grew up across the street from each other,
00:15and then he started coaching basketball.
00:18It was during our college years, and I'd help him out,
00:21but he would go to your practices, and he used to come back and tell me all the time.
00:25He's like, man, you should have heard what Gary was saying to his players.
00:28He's a fill-in-the-blank player.
00:30I'm denying everything.
00:33Smart move, Coach.
00:34No, but it was a clinic.
00:35I mean, I don't even know if that stuff happens anymore, right?
00:38Do they have open practices for programs like that?
00:40Coaches are more careful because now you get people coming in
00:43and try to tamper almost with your players because of the NIL
00:46and the transfer portal and all those things.
00:48How thankful are you that you're not involved in that?
00:51Yeah, I was going to ask you that.
00:52Well, I think.
00:53I mean, you would adjust.
00:55Yeah, I'd be coaching today if, you know, given this time and everything,
01:00I wouldn't like it as much as when I was coaching
01:03because then you could get players,
01:05and you knew basically you had them for three or four years
01:08unless you've got a Steve Francis or somebody like that.
01:11But, you know, it's just a different time.
01:14It's good for the players because they're making money.
01:17I'm not sure they need to make as much money as some of them are making.
01:21But the NCAA, 30 years ago, I was on a committee with, like,
01:26John Thompson and Krzyzewski went to the NCAA and said,
01:29we have to do something for the players.
01:31And basically they patted us on the head and said, go back to your school.
01:35You know, so, but, you know, like if Steve Blake came from Florida,
01:39you couldn't buy him a winter coat.
01:41Right.
01:41Are you kidding me?
01:42Right.
01:42You know, I mean.
01:43And now you can fly him in and pay him $4 million.
01:45Probably just for the parents.
01:47Yeah, right.
01:48Well, yeah, but how would you, as a head coach,
01:51would you be okay with that?
01:53Knowing how it was there.
01:55Well, you know, that's what you can do now.
01:57What bothered me before was when guys cheated.
02:00Everybody knew three or four guys that really cheated.
02:03Yeah.
02:03And yet they were not reprimanded, not put any sanctions on, you know, whatever.
02:08And that, you just want to level play.
02:10And why?
02:11Is it just because they were massive programs?
02:13Yeah.
02:14Yeah.
02:14You know, you want to level play.
02:15And then you go coach, you go play, and best teams win.
02:19Do you think it's harder to coach the players that are making the money?
02:22Yeah, I think so.
02:23So a freshman comes in there, they're highly, you know, recruited.
02:26They're making $3 million, $4 million.
02:29I mean, they could be making more than a coach.
02:31They know they're going to the NBA.
02:32That's weird.
02:32Why are they going to listen to you?
02:34Yeah.
02:34There are guys making more than a coach.
02:36Right.
02:36That's crazy.
02:37Yeah.
02:38That's hard to believe.
02:39Like, who has more power there?
02:40Like, the guy who's probably making the most money.
02:42Yeah.
02:43I mean, it's the way it is.
02:45And, you know, you look at quarterbacks in football in college, and, you know, the money
02:49they're making is ridiculous.
02:51But that's where it is.
02:53And so you've got to figure out how to handle that, I guess.
02:56You know, I'm sure a current coach, that'd be really interesting to see how they feel about
03:01that situation.
03:02Because that's not how you grew up as a coach.
03:05I mean, I was a JV high school coach, and glad to have that job.
03:08And then you moved to a varsity head job, and, you know, that type of thing.
03:12And you were a soccer coach?
03:13Yeah.
03:13I had to coach soccer to get into college coaching.
03:15But that's, that was 1971.
03:19Yeah.
03:19A lot different.
03:20When you look back at your time at Maryland, was there a turning point for you with the
03:25fan base and then the team as the program got rolling?
03:28Well, I think my first couple years, we couldn't play in the NCAA.
03:32We couldn't be on live TV.
03:36And, you know, we had Walt Williams, which kept the fans involved.
03:40I thought Walt did as much as anybody ever did for Maryland in terms of being a great
03:45player, but also the way he was, the type of person he was.
03:49People felt a part of things with Walt there.
03:51Yeah.
03:52And once he left, we had that year, we won three games in the ACC the year Walt left.
03:58And then Joe Smith and Keith Booth came, and we got to the Sweet 16 the next year.
04:02I think E.B. and I, we went to that first practice.
04:04Yeah.
04:04Booth at the time, I think, got more hype than Joe Smith.
04:07No, Keith was an All-American, you know, in high school.
04:11And Joe was, you know, he started to get attention going into his senior year.
04:15Recruiting was different back then.
04:17Like, the junior year was really big in recruiting a guy.
04:20Right.
04:21And, you know, by the time he was a senior, he had kind of blown up that summer, but Joe
04:25had committed to us, and he kept his word, and he came, and, you know, National Freshman
04:30of the Year.
04:31And you knew right away, like, once you got on campus, like, wow, he's way better than
04:34people realize?
04:35Well, the first day of practice is when you sit, because you're on the floor with him,
04:38and Joe just had this timing that you can't teach.
04:41In other words, Joe could go across the lane and get a, most rebounders can rebound in
04:48their spot.
04:49They go straight up and down.
04:50Right.
04:50Joe could take that step and get it from the other side, which separated him from most of
04:55the ACC players, to tell you the truth.
04:57Yeah.
04:57So, I told you last night that every time we have you on, I get emotional, because you
05:01brought a national title to Maryland.
05:03It's just unbelievable.
05:04And you, fans have an emotional connection to you.
05:07I don't know if you feel that.
05:08Oh, I'm sure he does.
05:09Yeah.
05:10Why is that?
05:11Why did you, why do we feel like we all gravitated to you more?
05:14Is it because it was also your alma mater, and you had that same passion for the school?
05:18I left, I mean, I was so fortunate to get the Maryland job, but I left a very good situation
05:26at Ohio State to come to Maryland.
05:27Yeah.
05:28I wouldn't have left Ohio State for any other job.
05:30Who do you have then?
05:31Michael Tate or something?
05:32I can't remember who it is.
05:33We had just signed James Jackson in November.
05:35I left in May.
05:36That's how smart I was.
05:39Then I walk into Maryland, and they say, well, we're just going to do that.
05:41You're going to get a slap on the wrist from the NCAA.
05:43Nice slap.
05:44Right.
05:45Right.
05:45But, and then I talked to you last night, and I said, you brought a national championship.
05:49You were humble.
05:49Yeah, we got one.
05:50But I almost got a sense in your brain that there may be a couple others that you thought
05:55we should have got.
05:56I thought the Steve Francis team was good enough, but, you know, there's 10 teams every year
06:04good enough to win a national championship.
06:06Yeah.
06:06But Abinia Kese, he tore his Achilles a week before the ACC tournament, and we had to play
06:11against Ron Artest in St. John's in that second round, and we didn't have anybody.
06:16Lonnie Baxter still was not Lonnie Baxter yet as a freshman.
06:20And Artest just beat us up.
06:21You know, he really did a good job, and I felt that team, and then the...
06:26The year before.
06:27Yeah, the year before was a possibility, but the 2010 team, the Gravis Vasquez, we lost
06:33on the last second shot to Michigan State, which was really the most...
06:37I remember that game.
06:38...where the kid ducks.
06:40Yeah.
06:40Instead of, you know, most kids catch the ball.
06:42The kid who should have caught the ball couldn't shoot.
06:44You know, he's a terrible shooter, and the kid walks in behind and shoots it, and we choked
06:51a little bit.
06:51We didn't come out on him like we should have, and he made it three, but while we were playing
06:55that game, Northern Iowa beat Kansas.
06:58Right.
06:59We would have played Northern Iowa, and then we would have had to play Tennessee.
07:02We were as good as Tennessee by then.
07:04Yeah.
07:04To get to the Final Four.
07:06Yeah.
07:06Right.
07:06Well, how...
07:08What relationship did you have personally with Coach K, and then when you beat him, was it
07:14was it kind of mutual, or were you guys good with that?
07:17He was the ultimate competitor.
07:18Were you guys friends?
07:19Were you friends?
07:20Or just kind of colleagues?
07:22We were colleagues.
07:23Respect.
07:23Yeah, yeah.
07:23You know, I respect.
07:24I played against him in college.
07:26I was in Maryland.
07:27He was at West Point playing for a 25-year-old Bobby Knight.
07:30Right.
07:31Yeah.
07:31And we played in the Charlotte Invitational.
07:33We kicked their butt.
07:3454-53.
07:35Oh.
07:36I still remember it.
07:37He had five.
07:38I had four.
07:39But you guys were good.
07:41As coaches, you respected each other, obviously.
07:43Were you friends?
07:45I wouldn't call...
07:46I'd say we respected each other.
07:48We weren't mad at each other all the time.
07:50I mean, when the game started, that's a different world.
07:52Yeah, yeah.
07:52You want to beat him.
07:52You know, those two hours, you do whatever it takes to win the game.
07:55And I think he respected that because he was so dominant.
07:59When I got the job in Maryland in 89, Duke won those next two years.
08:04They had Grant Hill, Laettner, Carly, all those guys.
08:07Then the next year, Carolina won.
08:10So, my first three years, we had the national championship in the league.
08:13And I'm going like, you know...
08:15Well, I get myself out there.
08:16And we have our scholarships reduced by three also during that period.
08:21But you know what?
08:21Oh, wow.
08:21When you were in the Big East, you were going up against heavy units all the time.
08:24That was great.
08:25I mean, the Big East, who were you coaching against?
08:27So, get this.
08:28I was in the Big East four years.
08:30Georgetown and Villanova won the national championship.
08:32I go to Ohio State, Indiana, and Michigan win it in the three years I was there.
08:37I come to Maryland in three straight years, ACC wins it.
08:41Your time is impeccable.
08:42Yeah.
08:43Great move.
08:44But you got it done.
08:45All right.
08:45Here's a big question.
08:46And Sansie said that we got to bring it up.
08:48Yeah.
08:49Why isn't your menu item at the Starbird selling like others?
08:52Yeah.
08:53What's going on there?
08:53I don't know where it is.
08:54Hold on.
08:55Where is it?
08:55Oh, these are top.
08:56We heard it's a sore spot.
08:57What is Gary's?
08:58What is Gary's?
08:59It's the skill.
09:02Everybody's trying to be healthy.
09:03And that's the most food you could ever eat for breakfast.
09:07On the menu.
09:08Right.
09:08Number one.
09:09It's good.
09:10I've had it.
09:11I recommend it.
09:12But like.
09:13What's it called?
09:14It's some skillet.
09:15So it's called Gary's skillet?
09:17Coach William's skillet.
09:17Coach William's skillet.
09:19You need to get that branding out there, coach.
09:21All right.
09:21I'll tell you what.
09:22I'm still looking for that check, you know, every time he sells one, too.
09:25I haven't seen it.
09:27When did you first meet Monty?
09:29Like, you clearly have a great relationship with Monty.
09:32Yeah.
09:32I guess I started coming down here in 93, 94 and there.
09:37Yeah.
09:37And I got to know Monty.
09:38Then he bought, you know, right around there.
09:40He bought the starboard and, you know, just got to know him.
09:43And the job he's done, you know, for Dewey.
09:46I mean, Dewey's become.
09:48I mean, the houses in Dewey now are very, you know, the new ones they build are as good as
09:53anywhere.
09:54They're way out of our price range.
09:55I know that.
09:56The big ones.
09:57Hey, can you imagine what would you.
09:59Well, I don't know.
10:00I don't want to get into your pockets when you were coaching.
10:02But if you were coaching now, what would your salary be?
10:06Well, that's the other thing.
10:08You know, they say, well, could you coach now?
10:11I don't like the portal.
10:12I don't like the.
10:14But you'd like.
10:15But I really like the money.
10:16No, I read a thing there.
10:18It's since 2015.
10:20Was that 10 years?
10:22It's going up 60 percent.
10:24Isn't that crazy?
10:25But everything is going up.
10:26I mean, the money.
10:26Everything.
10:27You're right.
10:27You're right.
10:27The money that Maryland makes in the Big Ten now doubles what you make in the ACC now.
10:33Yeah.
10:33For example.
10:34Yeah.
10:35Was it?
10:35Were you ever offered a job, a head coaching job in the NBA?
10:40No.
10:40No, I was never offered.
10:42But were teams interested?
10:44Was any team ever interested?
10:45Not really.
10:46I don't think so.
10:47Oh, okay.
10:47All right.
10:47I didn't call.
10:48So your agent never contacted you?
10:50No, no.
10:50You were a college guy.
10:51Okay.
10:51I enjoyed coaching in college.
10:53I really did.
10:54Because back then, you could develop your team.
10:58Yes.
10:58In other words, you did a good job recruiting.
10:59You had a good staff.
11:01You had guys that were willing to play.
11:03Like the, you know, I look at that, the championship team in 2002.
11:08Steve Blake was a part-time starter at Oak Hill Academy.
11:12Yeah.
11:12Chris Wilcox was not thought to be good enough by the four Carolina schools in the ACC.
11:18Right.
11:19You know, Lonnie Baxter wasn't big enough, even though he was 260.
11:22He was 6'6".
11:23Yeah.
11:23You know, he wasn't good.
11:24So all those guys came in with a little bit of chip on their shoulder about wanting to prove something.
11:30Yeah.
11:30But at the same time, they came in with the idea that they were going to see how good they
11:35could be.
11:35And they were willing, like a Juan Dixon was willing to sacrifice some things if it meant we could win
11:42a championship.
11:43And I think that really came into play in 2001.
11:48And that was probably as hard a thing as we ever did was to get to a Final Four because
11:53it had never been done before.
11:54Anytime you have a glass ceiling like that in coaching, it's really hard to bust through that.
11:59And, you know, that game against Stanford, they were the number one seed on the West Coast playing in Los
12:04Angeles.
12:05And, you know, to win that game, I think we won by 13, which is a big margin in that
12:10type of game.
12:11Yeah, huge.
12:11You know, that was big.
12:12And then the next year, we were just good, you know.
12:15And I thought we were good enough from the start.
12:18At midnight, I've never done this before.
12:19At midnight, Madness, they had to close the doors.
12:22You know, it was crazy because we had been in the Final Four the year before.
12:25And I got in the microphone and I said, we're going to win a national championship this year.
12:28Nice.
12:28Do you remember that?
12:29You guys there?
12:30I was.
12:31We went to all of them.
12:32We went to all of them.
12:33Yeah, and, you know, I wanted to make sure the players understood that, you know,
12:37since we were in the Final Four last year, we had most of those guys back.
12:41Yeah.
12:41This is our goal this year.
12:43We weren't going to settle for anything else.
12:46Did you know what it would do sort of for your legacy?
12:49Like, looking back on it now, like, can you imagine having not won it?
12:53Would you be torn up inside?
12:55Yeah, I think there would be a sense of frustration there because I coached against so many teams
13:02that won national championships in the leagues I coached in that if we didn't do it, you know,
13:08I'd just start looking in the mirror, you know, like, what's wrong with you?
13:11Right, right.
13:12You know, how come you couldn't do it?
13:13And really, we could have had two, and then you pick up another one along the way, I think, you
13:22know,
13:22I look at Roy Williams.
13:23We played them when he was at Kansas in the semifinal game out there, and he goes to Carolina.
13:28I guess he wins three at Carolina or two at Carolina.
13:31Right.
13:31And I always thought that that was the goal, to be as good as Carolina and Duke.
13:36You know, that would make you at least competitive with all the other teams in the ACC
13:41if you could get as good as Duke and Carolina.
13:44All Maryland fans wish was still the old traditional ACC, et cetera.
13:49All Maryland fans, I think.
13:50There's no doubt about it.
13:51Yeah.
13:51But we understand the financial implications or whatever.
13:54Move into the Big Ten.
13:54The Big Ten.
13:55No one loves it, but I guess they had to do it, but we're still at the bottom of everything.
14:01Like, when you look at the financial numbers.
14:03We win all the other sports.
14:05Well, you're right.
14:06Besides football and basketball.
14:07But football and basketball.
14:08Yeah, right.
14:08Because of money.
14:09So does it work out?
14:11Was it the right move?
14:13Well, we were $20 million in debt, and we had added, like, competitive cheerleading,
14:19water polo, all the, you know, fun and games, and somebody had to pay for it.
14:25And, you know, football wasn't in a position where they could, like in Ohio State,
14:29just, okay, how much money do you need?
14:31You know, Ohio State just throws money at you.
14:33Yeah.
14:33You know, when you're coaching some other sport.
14:36And so, what the Big Ten did, it allowed us to get our heads above water.
14:43But, you know, really, when you look at it, you step back and you look at it,
14:50Duke and Carolina basketball, we miss.
14:52We all miss.
14:53Yeah.
14:53And not just because I coached.
14:55Whatever.
14:55We all miss.
14:56But, really, there wasn't a rival in football.
14:58Give me a football line.
14:59Yeah, you're right.
15:02You're right.
15:02And, like, you know, certainly Indiana coming in is as good as Clemson coming into play.
15:08Yeah.
15:08Yeah, yeah.
15:08You know, I mean, but it's Carolina and Duke.
15:10See, that's been the two that have, everybody talks about that.
15:14Well, what do you really, I ask people, what do you really miss?
15:16Oh, the Carolina-Duke games.
15:18Yeah, so do I.
15:19But that's it, really.
15:21But it is funny.
15:22I do kind of hate Michigan State now.
15:23You know what I mean?
15:24Yeah, that's what I mean.
15:25It takes time.
15:26Yeah, yeah.
15:26I mean, the ACC started in the 50s.
15:29Coach, how well do you know Buzz?
15:31I know Buzz pretty well.
15:32I knew him better than Marquette.
15:34And then, you know, he went to Virginia Tech and A&M.
15:38He only stays at school for about five years.
15:41That's been his track record.
15:43Yeah.
15:43You know, that's what he's done.
15:45And now, who knows what really goes on?
15:48You know, you don't know administratively and all those things that can take place.
15:53But Buzz has won in each of those lids.
15:56No, he can win, no doubt.
15:57He can win.
15:58And so, it's really interesting now how quick you can change a team.
16:03Yeah.
16:03You know, you couldn't change a team that quick before.
16:07So, they did not, you know, everybody were all disappointed in the year that they had.
16:12But I think the one thing that was consistent, they did play hard.
16:16So, now, if you get better players and they play at that level, I think we can get right in
16:21the mix in the Big Ten.
16:23And that's the key.
16:23And, you know, you look at Michigan.
16:26You know, Dusty May gets the job.
16:27He gets five transfers.
16:29I know.
16:29This academic citadel.
16:31Yeah, yeah.
16:32Five transfers.
16:32Those guys will never graduate from Michigan.
16:34Never.
16:35None of those guys.
16:36Right.
16:36And yet, you know, here we are at Maryland.
16:40Now, we've had our chance.
16:42Buzz got the job way late in the whole NIL time period now.
16:48He didn't have an AD when he got the job.
16:50Right.
16:51And so, there's stuff that he had to go through that he never went through before, I'm sure.
16:57Yeah.
16:57So, now, everything's here.
16:59Okay, let's go.
17:00Maryland, we've convinced some people about how important it is that we're competitive NIL-wise,
17:07which probably the first time we are.
17:10And we'll see what happens.
17:12Coach, you're the man.
17:13Thank you so much, man.
17:14Good to see you guys.
17:15Awesome.
17:16Thank you very much.
17:16Thanks for having me on.
17:18Thanks for coming down.
17:19I can't believe we've been here 30 years, and we obviously started when he was coming.
17:23This is awesome to be able to have.
17:25I know.
17:26I really recommend my breakfast item.
17:28Breakfast item.
17:29Get it.
17:30Get it.
17:30Look at all this.
17:31This is awesome.
17:32If you're really hungry.
17:33Thank you, Coach.
17:34Thank you so much.
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