- 1 day ago
Tamil Nadu Chief Minister C Joseph Vijay on Thursday expanded his Cabinet, inducting twenty-one legislators alongside two representatives from the Congress party.
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00:02Hello and welcome. Good evening. You're watching Super 6 here on India Today.
00:05I'm Akshita Nanda Gopalo. The next one hour will get you all the big headlines coming in
00:10from the southern states. So what do we have for you on the broadcast this evening?
00:13We're going to be talking about the Tamil Nadu cabinet expansion, a number of headlines that
00:19have emerged from it. For starters, that the Congress, after over five decades, finds itself
00:24as a part of the government. We'll have Congress's Praveen Chakrabarty joining us
00:28on this edition of Super 6. But we'll also be talking about some of the controversies
00:32that have emerged over Chief Minister Vijay's cabinet over the minister. So we'll get you
00:37all of those details. But also on the show, the controversy over Vande Matram. You've got
00:43the DMK and several other parties questioning why the Vande Matram is playing first and the
00:48Tamil anthem is playing last. What really is the showdown about? We'll have a political
00:53panel with us on this. So as always, lots lined up for you. Let's begin with the headlines.
01:05One of the masterminds of the 2019 Pulwama attack killed by unknown gunman MPOK, Hamsa Burhan,
01:12known as Doctor, sustains multiple bullet injuries after he was attacked in Muzaffar Abel.
01:22Vijay's cabinet expands 21 TVK to Congress. MLA's stakeholders, ministers, Congress erupts, controversy erupts
01:30after swearing in ceremony begins with Vande Matram and not the Tamil anthem. DMK fumes as Vijay letting
01:36tamirins down. Manhunter on for Thwisha's absconding husband. Cops increased reward on husband to 30,000
01:47rupees. Mother-in-law faces action as she's said to be axed as the Consumer Forum judge.
01:59Kalkara High Court asked CBI to probe allegations of evidence tampering in RG call rape and murder case,
02:04direct CBI to form an SIT and submit report by June 25th.
02:14Bengal chief minister makes Vande Matram mein ehn madarsas mandatory before classes.
02:19Ex-TMC Neta, AJUP chief Humayun Kabir and Samajwadi party oppose MOVE,
02:24accused BJP of politicizing the national song.
02:32NEAT whistleblower alleges silence bid by Sikar's top cop assides police in action from May 3rd to May 7th
02:40in paper leak gate and deliberate bid to delay probe. NTADG Abhishek Singh appears before parliamentary panel.
03:05And let's begin with breaking news that's coming in on the cabinet reshuffled by chief minister Vijay.
03:10What's emerged as a big surprise is the fact that the finance portfolio which was handed over just last week
03:16to the veteran of the party, the political veteran in TVK, Sengotian, has now changed hands.
03:23The finance ministry has now gone over to Murray Wilson, who is the MD of the JPR group.
03:30If you're from Tamil Nadu, if you're not from Chennai, you know that the JPR group of institutions,
03:34the colleges are very, very famous, are very popular in Tamil Nadu.
03:39So he is the MD of that particular group. He's been handed the finance ministry.
03:43Sengotian has been shifted over to revenue ministry. Another key portfolio, yes.
03:47But there are questions being asked on exactly why this change happened.
03:51Let's get you a reaction now of the new finance minister, Murray Wilson.
03:58First of all, I'd like to thank the Honorable Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu for giving me this opportunity
04:04and the Arch and other constituency people for electing me in this government.
04:11So this is a historic moment, actually, since because after 60 years, the alliance partner,
04:16Congress, today alliance partner, and 60 years they have been inducted into the cabinet.
04:21So this is a historic moment. I'm feeling proud to be a part of this.
04:25So looking forward to the portfolio and working ahead with the government for the people.
04:35And on your screens is a video that's also been put out by the DMK.
04:41This is the video on the left of your screens, an old video that the DMK has posted
04:45to question Murray Wilson's credentials and the fact that he's got a criminal record against him.
04:50That is something the DMK has latched onto, including this video, which shows Murray Wilson
04:56with a bat seemingly in some sort of a fight.
05:00It's over this now that the DMK is questioning the TVK.
05:03Let's bring in Pramod Madhav, who's joining us live from Chennai with more details on this.
05:08Pramod, give us a sense of why we saw this shift, that in a matter of one week,
05:12Sengotian was moved from finance to revenue and Murray Wilson was brought in.
05:16And also, has the TVK responded to the questions being asked about Murray Wilson's criminal past?
05:22Well, Akshita, one thing is very certain, TVK sources very clearly say that now a DMK is the opposition,
05:27so opposition will have to raise these things, so that is what the DMK IT Wing is doing over here.
05:30The important aspect here is that revenue for the state is a very, very important position,
05:35and that also needs a minister with, you know, kind of like experience and such.
05:39And TVK claims that that is the reason Sengotian was moved to revenue, while finance is a state.
05:44One of Murray's, Murray Wilson is among one of the closest, close attaches to the chief minister, Vijay,
05:49and in the earlier cabinet, he did not get a seat, and that is why he's been moved to the
05:53finance over here.
05:54Vijay, chief minister, very clearly has said that he's going to monitor each and everything closely,
05:57which means he needs the people he trusts, and that's the reason Murray Wilson has been given
06:01the position of finance minister for the state, Akshita.
06:04Okay, so controversy are plenty over that video, and the DMK saying,
06:08why exactly has Murray Wilson been chosen, what are his credentials?
06:11He's an educationist, essentially, someone who's part of the JPR family, very influential family as well.
06:18Thanks very much, Pramod, for joining us with those details.
06:21So, controversies also that you're seeing playing out right now over the names that have been brought in
06:27in Chief Minister Vijay's cabinet.
06:30With the cabinet expansion in Tamil Nadu, we now have a more or less complete team, Vijay.
06:36And there are so many faces that stand out in this cabinet.
06:39It's almost like a start-up, full of new, young profiles, with lots to prove, of course.
06:45The youngest minister now is S. Kamali, all of 28, and fiery.
06:50I'd met her in Avinashi.
06:51Remember, she defeated Union Minister L. Murugan and has been rewarded with a cabinet birth.
06:56And she's not the only young newbie or woman.
06:59So, 28-year-old Kamali, then you have 29-year-old Kirtana.
07:03MLA from Sivakasi was in the first list of TVK.
07:06MLA sworn in as a minister. She's got a crucial portfolio of industries.
07:11Then, there's 31-year-old Ramesh, a content writer turned politician.
07:17Interesting trajectory, yes, but clearly now the new normal in Tamil Nadu.
07:21He's now the HR and CE minister.
07:23Not easy, considering this is one of the most watched-out for portfolios.
07:27It's one that always lands up in controversy.
07:29He's an MLA, again, first-time politician, like I said.
07:31MLA from Srirangam.
07:33So, we have educationists.
07:35We have content writers in the cabinet.
07:38We also have actors.
07:39I'm not talking about Chief Minister Vijay.
07:41That's an obvious one.
07:42There are two other actors, too, which means that this is perhaps for the first time,
07:46we have three actors turned politicians in one government, in one cabinet.
07:52Raj Mohan, YouTuber, actor, is the education minister, known for his jokes previously,
07:57has now gotten down to business.
08:00And then you have Srirat.
08:02If you've seen Tamil movies, you know he's a familiar face.
08:05He's known to be Vijay's friend.
08:07And so now you have a third actor in the cabinet.
08:11Srirat was just brought in now in this expansion that happened.
08:15He is known to be a good friend of Chief Minister Vijay.
08:18So, Vijay's super kings and queens, if I can call them that, are an interesting mix.
08:22They come from different backgrounds, different profiles, most of them newbies.
08:27And there's no doubt that they have to hit the ground running because the whole state,
08:31the whole country actually, is watching this unique team to see if they can actually deliver.
08:40So, let's get you also a sense of what's played out in the last 24 hours.
08:44At 10 a.m. is when we saw the cabinet expansion take place.
08:47Chief Minister Vijay was there.
08:49In the presence of the governor, these new faces were all administered the oath.
08:52One of the big headlines is also that, yes, the Congress, after over five decades,
08:57is now part of a government in Tamil Nadu.
09:00So, this is truly a coalition government.
09:01For the first time in a long, long time, we're seeing power sharing.
09:14Tamil Nadu has entered a new chapter and it belongs to Thalapati Vijay.
09:19In the much-awaited cabinet expansion, the first phase saw 10 ministers take oath.
09:25The second wave brought in 23 more.
09:2921 from TVK and two from Alliance Partner Congress.
09:33With TVK opening its doors to coalition partners, the cabinet is shaping up to be a true Alliance support.
09:40IUML has put forward A.M. Shah Jahan as the ministerial nominee.
10:11VCK 2 is expected to name Vani Arasu for a campaign.
10:14Cabinet work.
10:21Are you going to become a member of the government?
10:23I'll see.
10:24Adding a personal touch to the political moment, a long-time friend of Chief Minister Vijay,
10:30Tamil Nadu Minister Srikan stepped forward to congratulate him for reshaping Tamil Nadu.
10:35A lot of responsibility.
10:37We have to work hard for that, for the well-being of the people.
10:41My leader, with the support of my leader and my party people,
10:45I will definitely do my hard work.
10:50But politics, as always, has its own script.
10:54BJP sharpened its attack on Congress and called them backstabbers,
10:58a charge Congress swiftly and firmly rejected.
11:03We entered the back door of the government
11:06and they have stabbed, backstabbed the DMK alliance
11:11who were supporting them for more than 20 years.
11:14See, our leaders had already spoken to them from Delhi.
11:17We did not betray anybody.
11:19If DMK was short of forming the government of five MLA's that we possess,
11:23then definitely we could have called as betrayal.
11:26Respecting the people's mandate is not a betrayal.
11:30And no historic ceremony is complete without a moment of drama.
11:34During the oath-taking, Governor Rajinder R. Lekar was forced to step in
11:39as TVK and Congress MLA's erupted into slogans,
11:42some hailing Vijay, others Rahul Gandhi.
11:45I am the leader of the President, and I am the leader of Rahul Gandhi.
11:53That is not a part of your oath.
11:56I am the leader of the Taliban.
11:58I am the leader of the Taliban.
11:59Just wait, just wait.
12:00I am the leader of the Taliban.
12:03This expansion carries weight beyond numbers.
12:06New faces, fresh mandates, and high expectations.
12:11For the man who traded cinema for politics,
12:14this is no longer just a debut.
12:16It is a declaration.
12:18EuroReport, India Today.
12:23So one of the Congress MLA's, they also tried to speak of Rahul Gandhi and the likes,
12:29and that's what's triggered the governor also stopping him mid-oath.
12:33So a bit of controversy that played out during the swearing-in as well that took place this morning.
12:37But let's focus really on the Congress and why this is a big deal for them.
12:41The fact is that for decades, the Congress has played second fiddle.
12:45Not like that's changed, but you've finally got a leg in as far as the government goes in Tamil Nadu.
12:50Remember that the Congress had a very rich political legacy in Tamil Nadu.
12:541937 to 1954, you had C. Rajagopalachari as the Chief Minister of Madras State.
12:59And then when it transitioned over to Tamil Nadu, Kamarajar, an idol who's revered even now in Tamil Nadu politics.
13:05From 1954 to 1963, it was Kamarajar who was the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu.
13:11The last Congress Chief Minister was, in fact, Bhaktavatsalam.
13:16This was right up to 1967, after which the DMK came to power,
13:20and then since then has been the rule of the Dravidian parties.
13:23After this era of 1967, this is the first time the Congress has found itself in the government.
13:30Sure, not as a Chief Minister or any of that,
13:33but you've got two MLAs who've now become Tamil Nadu ministers.
13:37So has the gamble of dumping the DMK and going with the TVK actually worked for the Congress?
13:43Yes and no.
13:44Let's decode for you what the Congress lost versus what it gained.
13:48Now as far as what it gained goes, obviously you're in the Tamil Nadu government, like I said.
13:53You've got two ministers despite having only five MLAs.
13:56And so that's a great win for the Congress.
13:58But what it lost in the process of dumping the DMK is that someone was a strong ally of the
14:04India bloc,
14:05no longer part of it.
14:06The Congress tried to suggest the DMK would still be a part of the India bloc.
14:09The DMK said that's not happening.
14:12Besides that, also considering the TVK tie-up for the Congress,
14:16it's back in government after 59 years.
14:19That's huge for the Congress.
14:20You know, they've been waiting for this.
14:21They've tried to push hard for power sharing with the DMK.
14:23It didn't happen.
14:24But the problem is that they still stuck to their alliance with the DMK right up until the mandate.
14:30And so you had the DMK, a strong endorser of Rahul Gandhi as the Prime Minister face of the India
14:36bloc,
14:37no longer part of the India bloc.
14:38There were many other regional parties who weren't so strongly endorsing Rahul Gandhi.
14:44MK Stalin was one of them.
14:45And yet now there's no ties left between the DMK and Congress.
14:49Vijay is now the face of the Tamil Nadu alliance.
14:52For the Congress, that means several gains, even in, let's say, a campaign in Kerala,
14:56where Vijay can be plugged in.
14:57That's a great plus for them because he's hugely popular.
15:00So in the South, they kind of have one more face who can represent them and who will campaign for
15:04them.
15:05But also at the same time, reputationally, they've been hit because of that image,
15:10that political greed has led them to leave their long-time ally like a DMK and move to the TVK.
15:15And that's something that other regional parties like the SP have also jibed the Congress over.
15:21They've got a strong South India influence now being in government in Tamil Nadu.
15:26So they add to that list of Karnataka, of Telangana, of Kerala and Tamil Nadu because you've got two ministers
15:31as well.
15:32But they're still very much playing the second fiddle as far as Tamil Nadu is concerned because now it's to
15:40the TVK.
15:40So several aspects to consider here, but ultimately, what did it come down to?
15:45There was no power sharing with the DMK.
15:47So once the mandate came in, the Congress switched over.
15:50Listen in to what MK Stalin had said months ago when he was the chief minister during the election season,
15:56when he spoke to India today, and that was the first time he said very clearly,
16:00there's no question of power sharing with the Congress.
16:24Okay, joining us here on this edition of Super 6, we've got Praveen Chakravarti of the Congress,
16:30someone who's played a very big role in, in fact, allowing and ensuring that the TVK and Congress come together.
16:37So, Mr. Chakravarti, thank you very much for your time.
16:40Congratulations, first of all, that the Congress has managed to finally be a part of the government in Tamil Nadu
16:45after five decades.
16:46But I'm going to straight up ask you, sir, why has it taken so long for the Congress to get
16:50here?
16:57First, thank you, but it's after nearly six decades, so it's even longer.
17:01Fifty-nine, yeah, you're right.
17:03Yes, you're right in asking why has it taken so long, because what does it tell you?
17:08For six decades, the party has not really been in power, but the party has continued to be a political
17:14force in a state like Tamil Nadu.
17:16So, that shows the amount of goodwill that the party and the party leadership have in Tamil Nadu.
17:21But for some reason, it has not been able to be translated into sharing power and governance and rights and
17:29respect for our party cadre.
17:31I think we have to really understand why, what has happened in the past, you know, there were opportunities earlier,
17:40like in 2006 for the Congress Party to be in government, but we don't know.
17:45I mean, really, whatever the decisions taken by the local leaders at that point in time, so it's for them
17:51to answer why this was not done earlier.
17:53But there was also this, I would say now, false kind of feeling created that Tamil Nadu will not accept
18:03a coalition government for some strange reason.
18:05And we clearly have shown that that is absolutely wrong, and we've shown that today.
18:11No, so, you know, a lot of people, and you've been instrumental, like I said in the beginning, Mr. Chakravarti,
18:16of ensuring that this TVK Congress alliance actually happened.
18:20But many would ask, what's really changed for the Congress?
18:23You were playing second fiddle to the DMK, you're now playing second fiddle to the TVK.
18:30Absolutely. I mean, I'm the first to admit that this is just a beginning.
18:35We are still a very small part of the overall government.
18:38We are only five MLAs. We will not forget that.
18:42But, but, it is a very important beginning for us to grow the party from here.
18:48So, the onus now is entirely on the leadership of the Tamil Nadu State Congress and its functionaries and office
18:57bearers and workers to build the party from there.
19:00Because the high command, the leadership now has opened up this window for the state unit.
19:06So, so, absolute. And that is what has changed.
19:09I'm not saying today we'll suddenly become a big force overnight.
19:12No, not at all.
19:14No, but, you know, keeping in mind, and I'm going to refer to the fact that in the last few
19:19days we saw a Congress show of strength in Tiruvannathapuram, if I can call it that,
19:23where you had the Congress show of the fact that they are in power in every single state in the
19:28South except for Andhra Pradesh.
19:30Then, you know, as someone who's covered Tamil Nadu, Rahul Gandhi, I know, is hugely popular in Tamil Nadu.
19:35And despite all of this, why is it that the Congress has simply been unable to make the most of
19:40the situation for the last so many years in the state?
19:44And does that change now? You know, are you looking at a 2031?
19:50You're right, and I certainly hope so, but I hope we don't have to wait till 2031 for a structural
19:54reform.
19:55I want the structural reform in the Tamil Nadu Congress Party to start tomorrow or like today evening.
20:00Yeah.
20:02So we need to move fast. We need to really use this opportunity to build the party.
20:09And I have no hesitation in admitting that, in saying that that is for us to do.
20:16And we can't continue to expect allies or play second fiddle, as you called it.
20:22So absolutely, I think I agree with you on that.
20:26Okay, so I'm going to raise a point made constantly, Mr. Chakravarti, by the DMK.
20:32And, you know, they've constantly been criticising the fact that the Congress has chosen to go with the TVK.
20:37They've called you backstabbers. They've called you, they've called this a betrayal.
20:41In hindsight, do you think that the Congress could have handled the situation better,
20:45as far as leaving and moving out from the DMK and joining the TVK is concerned?
20:52No, I don't think. I think that's perhaps a half-truth.
20:59The sequence of events were like this.
21:01On the day of the results, at about 5 p.m., Mr. Rahul Gandhi called Mr. Vijay to congratulate him
21:09after having spoken to the then Chief Minister, Mr. Stalin.
21:13He first spoke to Mr. Stalin about the results, and then he called Mr. Vijay to congratulate him on the
21:20victory.
21:21On that call, Mr. Vijay asked Mr. Rahul Gandhi for Congress's support, right on that day.
21:27And I know it because I was part of that conversation.
21:29And then, very quickly, we started to hear about efforts of backdoor machinations to prevent the TVK from coming to
21:42power
21:43and letting others, which perhaps did not get the mandate from the people in terms of political ideology,
21:51get in through the backdoor.
21:53And it is now well known, and many leaders have said it, that there were talks between the DMK and
21:58the AIA-DMK.
22:01So, there were a lot of these things that were happening, and hence the Congress Party decided that we have
22:08to respect the people's mandate first.
22:11And the people's mandate was for a secular, progressive government, and so we had to move fast.
22:16And we were very clear that that's what we're going to stand for, regardless of what the backdoor machinations were.
22:21Since you have mentioned the AIA-DMK, you know, there's been a huge churn in the party.
22:26Right now, in the floor test that happened, you had AIA-DMK rebels coming on board, supporting the TVK,
22:33extending the support to Chief Minister Vijay.
22:35What happens, sir, if the AIA-DMK comes on board?
22:38Is that something that will lead to the Congress saying that, no, we're, you know, pulling out, we will no
22:43longer support this alliance?
22:49See, I mean, this is a hypothetical question.
22:51As far as, I mean, you know, I know there's a lot of kind of what if happens, this happens,
22:56that happens.
22:56What are the facts as of now?
22:58The facts are, whatever is going on with the AIA-DMK is an inner party, internal party issue.
23:04There was a section that decided to support the government in the confidence motion on the floor of the House.
23:12The TVK or the Congress had nothing to do with that decision, right?
23:16So, it is really for the AIA-DMK to resolve this.
23:21Now, we can't answer hypothetical questions like, what if there is a breakaway?
23:25We don't know which one will be the real AIA-DMK.
23:28We know, we don't know what will happen in the courts.
23:31There are so many of these questions.
23:33So, I don't think it's fair for me to answer that.
23:36Okay, fair enough.
23:37But before I let you go, Mr. Chakravarti, you know, there is a video that's been going viral.
23:41Let me just put out that video.
23:43This was a video that you had posted, actually, of how you had returned back to your teaching gig.
23:49And you had all of these students then playing out a Vijay song.
23:53There were whistles in the air, all of this to welcome you.
23:56That's the video right there.
23:57And, you know, I see it in Delhi.
23:58There's a lot of curiosity about Vijay.
24:01Did you see that too?
24:03I'm sure you did, looking at what's played out.
24:08Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I was actually quite taken aback.
24:11I was surprised because I'm a visiting faculty at Ashoka University, which is in Sonipath Haryana,
24:15which is not exactly, which is quite almost a world away from Tamil Nadu, as you would know.
24:21So when I went back to resume my teaching after, you know, the whole, after the government was formed,
24:28as I walked into my class, the students just erupted with a, they're playing a Vijay song and they were
24:34whistling and clapping.
24:36I was quite, I mean, to be honest, I was quite embarrassed too.
24:39But I was also taken aback to see how a campus in Sonipath Haryana was following the rise of a
24:48new political party deep down south in Tamil Nadu,
24:51crossing the Godavari and divide.
24:55That was, that was quite interesting.
24:56So, so you're right.
24:57See, it is very clear that there is a huge kind of movement that we are seeing among young people.
25:04You can call it Gen Z, you can call it anything else, but generally people below the age of 40,
25:09I think there is this, they've suddenly become energized.
25:12They've suddenly become more political.
25:14They want change.
25:16They want, you know, freshness.
25:18They want new ideas.
25:19They're tired of old establishment politics.
25:22And, you know, I look at this, what, what happened in that little classroom of mine.
25:26And I also look at, you know, all the students are also telling me about the Cockroach Janata Party or
25:31whatever that has come up suddenly, you know.
25:33I don't think these are isolated incidents.
25:36It's fascinating, to say the least.
25:39And you're right.
25:39It kind of highlights also what's happening perhaps across the country.
25:42But it's wonderful to see, you know, all of this curiosity over the language, over Vijay's films, over songs, all
25:50of that, courtesy of what's happened in politics, believe it or not, in Tamil Nadu.
25:54But, Mr. Chakravarti, pleasure having you with us here on India today.
25:57Thank you very much for joining us and for the conversation on politics and so much more.
26:02All right, so you've heard from the Congress on what's taken them so long now to be a part of
26:08the government.
26:08But it's finally happened.
26:09Two out of five MLAs now are in the government for the Congress.
26:14Now, in the ceremony that took place today, there was a controversy that also played out.
26:19What was this about?
26:19When a governor attends a ceremony, there's usually the national song that's played, followed by the national anthem, followed by
26:26the tamar anthem.
26:28The likes of DMK have questioned this, saying, why has the tamar anthem been pushed to the very end, pushed
26:33to the last?
26:34Political controversy is playing out.
26:36Let's get you those reactions.
26:58One national song, one state anthem.
27:01But in Tamil Nadu, the order of songs has now turned into a full-blown political storm.
27:10Protocol versus pride.
27:12North versus Tamil identity.
27:14And once again, Chief Minister Vijay finds himself at the center of the controversy.
27:21Even as Vijay expanded his cabinet to 23 ministers, the spotlight quickly shifted from power politics to a battle over
27:28Tamil pride.
27:30When the national song played out before the Tamil anthem, the DMK launched a blistering attack on the state government.
27:38Questioning whether this was the change promised to the people, accusing the Vijay government of sidelining Tamil rights and identity.
27:45DMK further alleged that the TVK had ignored the long-standing priority for Tamil anthem protocol and had bowed before
27:52the governor instead of standing its ground.
27:55This government is going to function, this is going to be the style of functioning of this government.
28:01And now, Tamil Nadu and Varudha has gone to the third place.
28:05In the days to come, Tamil Nadu, which was standing first in so many aspects, I'm afraid, like Tamil Nadu
28:13and Varudha, these developments also may face the same consequences.
28:20But in a twist, TVK-Li's CPIM has backed Vijay.
28:24With the party's speech on Mungam defending the Chief Minister...
28:55Yet, the same CPIM, after Vijay's Oudha's Oudha's Oudha, is the same CPIM after Vijay's Oudha.
28:58Oudha's Oudha ceremony had questioned why the Tamil anthem was played third after one day matram and the national anthem.
29:04The Congress, too, citing protocol, defended its ally, the TVK.
29:09After nearly 60 years, the Congress party has a minister.
29:15Not only for the Congress party, this also marks a shift in the politics of Tamil Nadu.
29:20Tamil Nadu is ready for coalition government and it will continue to have coalition governments going forward.
29:28Tamil Nadu's political debate is now no longer just about a ceremony.
29:33It's about symbolism, identity and a question growing louder with every controversy.
29:39Who decides the order of pride in Tamil Nadu?
29:42We are a report, India Today.
29:54So, is this much ado about nothing, considering that this is the process, the protocol that's always followed when a
30:00governor attends an event?
30:02Or is there legitimate outrage over the national song being played before the Tamil anthem?
30:09Let me bring in on this broadcast Mr. S. Murali Darin, Harish Muhammad Ibrahim, as well as Mr. Narayanan Tirupati,
30:16spokesperson of the Tamil Nadu BJP.
30:18Good evening, thank you all very much for joining us.
30:21Harish, I'd like to begin with you.
30:22What do you make of this entire controversy?
30:24Ultimately, when a governor attends an event, this is the late protocol.
30:29The national song plays, the national anthem plays and then you have the Tamil anthem.
30:36I finally agree with your point.
30:38As there has been a guideline given by the Home Ministry, we accept that.
30:42But why is it being followed while during the West Bengal sparing-in ceremony?
30:48Even the BJP ruling state didn't follow the protocol by having the one-day matram sung.
30:55Even there, the Bengali's national anthem was sung first and then followed by the national anthem.
31:02So, why you have to take another yardstick to only Tamil Nadu?
31:06By making sure to put across the protocol which has been followed here for almost 100 years.
31:12In each and every government function, the Tamil anthem will be presiding its first portion,
31:18second followed by the national anthem.
31:20If you want to go ahead and add the one-day matram to your protocol list, then go ahead and
31:24do that.
31:24But having said that, the mother nature, the culture of the law of the land should prevail in its own
31:31prevalence.
31:32Whether it has been done in West Bengal, if in the same way, then okay, fine, fair enough.
31:37We would have welcomed the same move because it has a uniformity across the country.
31:41Valid question.
31:42Let me get in Narayan and Tirupati to answer that.
31:44Mr. Tirupati?
31:45Yeah.
31:46Even yesterday when we saw in Kerala also, the same, you know, one-day matram was sung in Kerala's worth
31:54-taking ceremony also.
31:55So, by the Congress people, everyone, including Mr. Rahul Gandhi, in fact, we saw Mr. Rahul Gandhi hurrying up the
32:03Chief Minister to stand up for the national song.
32:06So, see, these are all silly politics which the DMK and other people are trying to do.
32:10There is a protocol.
32:12There is a MHO order.
32:13The governor, the president or the governor...
32:15The president, sir, let me finish, sir.
32:18Let me finish, sir, please.
32:19So, when, you know, when the president or the governor participates in a function while coming or while going, it
32:27should be sung in the guideline.
32:29So, if he says that it is not followed in West Bengal, it will be followed.
32:33If they have not followed, they will follow.
32:36Very, very simple.
32:36That followed in Kerala.
32:38But who opposed in Kerala?
32:40No, but then, Mr. Tirupati, if not followed in Bengal, that's selective.
32:44You know, if there is an order, then in every state it must be followed.
32:48In every state, everyone raise their hand and say, do what you want.
32:51Ankita, if that's what I said, I don't know.
32:53He says that it was not followed in West Bengal.
32:56I have not seen.
32:57Suppose if it has not been followed, it will be followed from future.
33:01They have to tell them and they will correct it.
33:03Very simple.
33:03You touch your heart and say you didn't follow that.
33:05You tell me, you tell me, you have to be happy that it is followed here.
33:11If it is not followed there, you tell that.
33:15Anish should say that West Bengal should follow if it has not followed.
33:18I accept it fully.
33:20But he can't say, they are not doing so, you don't do.
33:23That is not right.
33:24No, but that gives a freedom.
33:25That gives a freedom, sir, for them to go ahead and say it didn't happen.
33:28Yeah, we can go ahead and do it.
33:29No, no, no.
33:30Don't do politics in this.
33:31That's what I'm saying.
33:32No, because that is a linguistic pride state like Tamil Nadu.
33:35That is a linguistic pride holding state like Tamil Nadu.
33:39Tamil Nadu is part of India and Tamil Nadu is part of you.
33:42You are talking about 100 years.
33:44You are talking about 100 years.
33:45100 years the Vandaya Madaram was not sung well.
33:49Sir, 100 years the Vandaya Madaram was not sung properly.
33:54That is why 3 minutes, 10 seconds we have made it mandatory.
33:58So the government has made it mandatory.
33:59You have to accept the facts.
34:01You have to first be a citizen of India, sir.
34:04Definitely, I am a proud Tamil person.
34:04It is okay, what makes singing Tamil, sir, I am a proud Tamil person.
34:10Why do you unnecessarily make politics here?
34:13I understand one thing, I understand one thing.
34:16Okay, one at a time, please.
34:18I understand one thing.
34:19The BJP always wanted to change the principles which have been existing for almost several decades.
34:23Let me finish.
34:25Let me finish.
34:26As far as this argument is concerned, I told you,
34:29If I don't know whether it was not sung in West Bengal, the order was issued in February.
34:35If they have not done it, you have to follow it.
34:37Simple, very simple.
34:39Don't say they have not done so, I will not do.
34:41It is not correct.
34:42If it is not done in West Bengal, they should do it.
34:45They will do it.
34:46Simple.
34:47Mr. Murali Dharan, do you want to come in on this?
34:49For the TVK, you know, is this a catch-22 situation that they are in?
34:53There is, of course, a protocol that is to be followed.
34:55But constantly, the DMK says that you are not standing up for Tamil rights as a result of not opposing
35:01the fact that the national song goes over the Tamil anthem.
35:06See, with due respect to the Tamil anthem, Akshita, what we need to understand, there are great things happening in
35:13Tamil Nadu.
35:14Today, some seven to eight Dalit ministers are sworn in for the first time in the history of Tamil Nadu.
35:20Two, there is a Brahmin minister who is going to head the HRNC ministry.
35:25These are fantastic things.
35:27And already, there is a crackdown happening on corruption and things like overcharging and looting in TASMAC, which we saw
35:35extremely rampant in DMK's regime.
35:38And DMK has nothing to talk about today, unfortunately.
35:41And they are rattling.
35:43You know, they know all these Nepo kids who are actually, you know, doing all kind of, you know, I
35:49mean, tantrums, throwing tantrums in the ministries when they were ruling.
35:52They are scared.
35:54If Vijay goes ahead and, you know, eradicates corruption, they don't know what they will do.
35:59But you're painting, Mr. Murali, they're in a very rosy picture.
36:02I'll remind you that there is a controversy over the new finance minister as well, over Murray Wilson.
36:08No, I mean, forget the, see, earlier Mr. Cenkotten was there.
36:12He was given that portfolio as a stopgap arrangement till they find the right candidate.
36:17Now they brought in Murray Wilson.
36:18Okay, there are controversy.
36:20Where are where?
36:20See, everywhere there are controversy.
36:22But the head has to be clean.
36:23Vijay says, I will give you a please.
36:25No, you can't compromise and then say that, you know, we stand for having leaders with no criminal record who
36:30have no criminal past when there is particularly a case in point here.
36:35I don't think he ever says that.
36:37Even if there are corrupt ministers, like you would say, Cenkotten is not clean.
36:40We all know that.
36:41But if he's going to be in Vijay's cabinet, he better will, you know, be clean.
36:44Otherwise, he's going to be thrown out.
36:46So that's very clear.
36:47Vijay is walking the talk.
36:49See, he's got everything under control.
36:50And these people have nothing to talk about.
36:53So they're just complaining on this trivial issue.
36:55Harish, is this an endless controversy that you have stirred up, that the DMK stirred up by questioning, you know,
37:01why is the national song played first?
37:03And what is the problem?
37:04Harish, the question that the BGP also asks is, what is the problem with having the national song first?
37:08Because Tamil Nadu is a part of the country, celebrated.
37:11Now, leave aside that.
37:13He is speaking about the Nephokit.
37:15I want to remind him, Mr. Vijay himself is a Nephokit.
37:18He's a father's Chaturishekar who was then-age director.
37:21So don't speak all these rubbish things on the national media stating that you are bringing out something to claim
37:26politics.
37:27No, who is Mr. Naduwarjana?
37:29Their entire family is in politics.
37:31Without his father, nobody.
37:31And who will bring back Madam Lima rules to defend the ADNK?
37:37Okay, one at a time, please.
37:38I'll give you a chance, Mr. Munit, they're in to respond.
37:40Harish, go ahead.
37:41I haven't respond.
37:42I haven't interrupted you.
37:43Yeah, yeah, Harish, go ahead.
37:44So having said that, you don't say that the DBK government of the 10 days doesn't have any prominent things.
37:50There are several things.
37:51Almost 67 murders have been happening on a daily basis.
37:54It is rampant across everywhere.
37:56And the usage of weed across the school children are there.
38:00FOXO acts have been implemented on 13 of them across the state for the last 14 days.
38:06So don't say that, and the electricity, the night across the state, the electricity has been prevalent and it has
38:13been there across Chennai cities for almost three to four hours during the late night.
38:18So don't say that you don't have any issues to speak up in the DBK government.
38:23That is totally a rubbish fault.
38:25So don't back up your DBK ally.
38:28Ankita, I heard from one of my friends that, you know, for each and every one megawatt, the previous government
38:35was taking around 25 lakhs as bright.
38:38Now they have stopped.
38:40Why not, Harish, tell them?
38:42The earlier government plucked everything and went, huh?
38:46Why is the shortage now?
38:47Sir, please understand.
38:49I believe a big, huge corruption scandal which was happening has been stopped.
38:55You were there in DJP, ruled for 12 years, ED, IT, everything was there with you.
39:00Please understand this.
39:00Why didn't you snap all those things?
39:02So you accept that it was happening, right?
39:05So you accept that it was happening, right?
39:06You were there in government for 12 years.
39:08You were accepting that it was happening.
39:09Why couldn't your agencies, only for doing the wind data politics, use the ED and IT?
39:14Yeah, everything will come into light.
39:16Please, sir, please wait.
39:17You were there in 12 years for the government.
39:19Why couldn't you do that?
39:20I am, then are you accepting it?
39:23That your government was a corrupt government.
39:26If you are claimed to be true, why are you accepting it?
39:27Okay, one at a time.
39:28I'm telling you, it is a corrupt government.
39:30You accept it.
39:31That's what I am.
39:31Thank you for accepting it.
39:33Sir, I am going to do something.
39:34So, Harish, quickly.
39:35Come on, don't twist the fact.
39:35Sir, he is twisting the facts.
39:37I want to categorically drag whatever the allegations.
39:40I am saying that they have been there in the government for 12 years.
39:43If the DMK 5 years government is there with all kind of corruption charges
39:46which they are leveling against for the last 5 years,
39:49I want to put them on straight to the point.
39:51Why didn't they unearth each and every account?
39:55Because they want to use the IT, ED, CBI only for doing the political and data politics.
40:00What is this?
40:01The DVSE is with you.
40:03When we write a letter, ED writes a letter to government of Tamil Nadu.
40:07He says, no, no, why should you come with a true governor?
40:10So, you are rejecting the ED's request to prosecute Mr. Sendhil Balaji.
40:14And now you are saying that what you are doing, you don't allow the central government to come in there.
40:20That is the problem.
40:21You allow these agencies to come in.
40:24You accept.
40:25Sir, the ambiguity.
40:25But Sendhil Balaji himself accepted that he has taken a bribe in the open court.
40:30You know that?
40:31Will you not agree?
40:34Sir, you have been given a clean change by the vulnerable ICOs and the Supreme Court.
40:39In the transport scam…
40:42One at a time.
40:42One at a time.
40:43This has gone much beyond the natural song debate, but I don't mind.
40:48In transport scam, Mr. Sendhil Balaji went to the court and accepted, yes, we took bribe, but we gave it
40:55back.
40:56And the court said, see, it is not the question of how much money you take.
41:00You have accepted.
41:02So, you have to be punished.
41:03In that case only, the ED has written to the government that because he was an ex-minister,
41:11the ED requested the government to prosecute him, which they refused.
41:14Now, the ball is in Vijay's court.
41:17Mr. Vijay's court.
41:18Because the new government has received a letter…
41:22You're right.
41:22…for which Mr. Vijay has to answer.
41:25So, Mr. Murali Darin, will the TVK walk the talk?
41:28You know, I raised several issues already about the new cabinet, including allegations of corruption,
41:33including allegations of criminal record against ministers.
41:37You know, all of that you say Vijay didn't promise on and now they'll have a clean slate.
41:41But there are also questions about whether Chief Minister Vijay will take a similar stand
41:45as the DMK on Central Agency's investigations.
41:48That's what's going to happen, Archita.
41:51See, that's why these people are rattle.
41:53Because today, in fact, the key man who was part of Sindhil Palaji in a 350 crore transformer
42:03scan has been unseated.
42:04He's been suspended by the electricity minister, Mr. Dermal Kumar.
42:08So, that shows, you know, where it's leading and already the ED has…
42:15No, but, and Mr. Murali Darin, we're just going to fix your audio before we come back to you.
42:19I'll bring in Harish once again on this.
42:22Harish, you know, what happens and the reason it moved into corruption, etc.,
42:25which is not what we started off with, is because inevitably there are questions being asked
42:29about whether really this should be the priority.
42:31If the opposition DMK is going to be raising issues like, you know, protocol being followed,
42:37is that to go ahead and question the TVK for the sake of questioning them?
42:42It is not for the sake of questioning.
42:44The state autonomy and the statehood is the primary, fundamental core principles of the DMK,
42:50where it is founded for, for what it is founded for.
42:53So, we're elevating from asking these kind of trivial questions,
42:57which is, relevance to the Tamil statehoods, Tamil identity matters a lot for the DMK,
43:03and it is their core ideology.
43:05So, how come you can say that each and every thing which is coming up,
43:09stating that, if that is the matter, I'm asking the simple question again,
43:13because the PM presided functions in West Bengal didn't have the Vande Matram as the first point.
43:19Let me flip this around.
43:20Because that is also…
43:21Let me flip this around.
43:22Months ago, when you had the new governor, Arlika, taking over,
43:25and at that point, Stalin was still the chief minister,
43:28the songs played in exactly the same order, Harish.
43:31You had the national song, you had the national anthem, and then you had the tamar anthem.
43:36No, no, no, no.
43:37You should correct your thing.
43:38You put your record straight.
43:40But at that point of time, nothing has been taken care of.
43:43Because that is not in our parliament.
43:45Because the government, which has been an incumbent government,
43:48which has been taken care of by the election commission of India at that point of time.
43:51No, sir, what would you like the TVK to do here?
43:55Do you want them to change the protocol?
43:58No, no, we are not saying that.
43:59At least you should have the protest which is in your blood.
44:02The Tamil blood has to be there.
44:04Tamil identity pride has to be there.
44:06So, the song played?
44:07For which…
44:07No, no, that is not the order.
44:09That is not the order, Achita.
44:11If that is the place, why it didn't be sung in West Bengal?
44:15Because the same linguistic pride and linguistic culture have been there prevailing…
44:19No, but there is also pride of being part of India.
44:22No, there is also that pride of being a part of India.
44:23We are not denying that.
44:24We are not denying that.
44:26So, as a nationalist…
44:27As a nationalist…
44:28No, no, no, I am more patriotic than you.
44:31So, don't…
44:32How do you know that?
44:32No, no, no, less.
44:34I don't know who is going to give you a certificate versus me.
44:37No, don't…
44:38You don't certificate to all the Tamilians over here.
44:41I am not giving any certificate.
44:42Let's not come on.
44:43No, no, let's not go into that, please.
44:45I am not giving you any certificate or anyone else.
44:47I am only asking you a question.
44:48If asking you a question is questioning someone's faith, I don't…
44:51We have a Tamil culture, Tamil identity presider, number one.
44:56Number two, we will be prevailing as a statehood rather than we are a proud Indian.
45:01There is no second thought about it.
45:03So, don't bring all these kind of divisiveness.
45:06Even…
45:06It is a simple thing…
45:07I will ask the question, I will ask the question.
45:09I am sorry, Harish.
45:10It is a simple question to ask.
45:12What is wrong with the natural song playing first?
45:14There is nothing wrong with that question.
45:16It is a valid question.
45:17I am still repeating.
45:19What is wrong in the rule of a land which the Tamil community…
45:23So, the Tamil anthem is playing, yes.
45:25Tamil anthem on the first part.
45:27What is wrong with you?
45:29What is wrong with that?
45:30Sorry.
45:30What is wrong with that?
45:31First we are Indians, then Tamilians.
45:34So, in that order we are very simple.
45:36Sir, come on.
45:37And, and, and Harish…
45:39Harish, then do you buy what Mr. Tirupati says?
45:42We are first Indians, then we are Kamrans.
45:44And Harish, I will give him a straightaway quick.
45:47Let me finish.
45:47Let me finish.
45:48Let me finish.
45:49Let me finish.
45:49Okay, let Mr. Tirupati finish.
45:51Harish, I will come back to you.
45:52Let Mr. Tirupati finish.
45:53Okay, please.
45:53He spoke in a very detailed manner.
45:55I just spoke two few words.
45:57Sure, sir.
45:57See, he is talking about West Bengal.
46:00In West Bengal, this time, taking the central government's queue,
46:04the West Bengal government has made it compulsory, mandatory in all schools and even in Madrasas.
46:12So, it is happening in West Bengal.
46:14Will Harish request the same in Tamil Nadu also?
46:18You are comparing with West Bengal.
46:19Harish.
46:20No, you DMK, let DMK come with the resolution.
46:23I am running out of time.
46:24I am running out of time.
46:25Harish, quickly, your response.
46:26We will do that, sir.
46:27Sir, whatever, whatever is progressive to the state, we will do that.
46:34No matter what religion, I am an atheist, you can't go ahead and paint me as a Muslim and you
46:40can ask me that kind of thing.
46:41No, no, no, none of that is happening, Harish.
46:43Harish, this is bad, this is bad.
46:45I am still strict to the point.
46:47Why are you bringing Madrasa as if I will have a different opinion?
46:50No, no, no.
46:51No, he said schools also.
46:52No, I said schools also.
46:53He said schools also, Harish.
46:54Harish, I am still strict to the point.
46:56I know, I don't want to make this communal.
46:59Gentlemen, hold on.
47:00I don't want to allow this to become communal at all.
47:02That's not something we will allow here.
47:04So, I don't want to get into religion.
47:06Simple, Harish.
47:07Simple, Harish, my final question to you.
47:09Will you accept if protocol suggests that the national song should play first?
47:15If states like Bengal, you are right.
47:17If states like Bengal also follow it, then yes in Tamil Nadu.
47:22If you have a complete entire India follows it, then there should be a consensus whether we have a precedent
47:29should be given to the state anthem or not.
47:31That should be debatable.
47:32Bring the consensus and do that.
47:34No one is going to question about that.
47:36Okay, okay.
47:37All right.
47:38Thank you very much, gentlemen.
47:39I have run out of time completely.
47:40Thank you very much for joining me.
47:42So, huge controversy that played out over Vande Matram.
47:45Ultimately, you will see essentially that while all of this continues, what we will focus on is really how the
47:53TVK performs as a government.
47:54That should be the core issue.
47:55That should be the number one political talking point even from the opposition.
47:59That's all we have time for in this edition of Super 6.
48:02Thanks very much for tuning in.
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