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00:00A chance to even up the series tonight, and then it could be a whole new ballgame.
00:04Anthony Lima, Daryl Ryder in for the final time before Ken returns from his big trip yesterday.
00:11Do we know officially if they're letting him off the boat?
00:14Yeah, I think he's off the boat. I think he's back in town.
00:17I believe. I believe he is.
00:19So, Ken told me, texted me yesterday, he'd be listening very intently,
00:23because you know how it is, this show.
00:25Looking for every edge, because, you know, Ken wants to prove himself.
00:30It's good that he'll have the opportunity to do that.
00:32Anyway, Daryl and I think Chris Fedor will join us at 9 o'clock.
00:36I had a lengthy conversation with Chris at the basketball game on Saturday,
00:40which was just pandemonium.
00:42The Cavs, they built up this lead.
00:45They look like a different team.
00:47People were starting to believe again,
00:49and then it came crashing down immediately as they blew a 17-point lead.
00:54And then it was the Max Struess and James Harden show.
00:59Of all people, in the fourth quarter, Donovan, the rest of his game was spectacular.
01:04He looked like he was rejuvenated.
01:06And then he handed it off to, you know, the other guys to bring it home, and they did.
01:12So, 116-109, the final score.
01:15James made three of his vintage signature moves.
01:19And my question is, was it a stay of execution, Daryl, when you were watching that?
01:25Do you think that was sustainable?
01:26Or do you think, ultimately, things are pointing in the opposite direction for a game like tonight?
01:32A late one tonight?
01:34Well, look, they got a stay of execution on Saturday, right?
01:38Had they lost that, we're doing a funeral this morning.
01:43So, if they can win tonight and tie this series, reset everything, they'll be fine.
01:50But, you know, James Harden still early in the game, sloppy handling the basketball.
01:56I don't know how much the hand is affecting some of these turnovers we're seeing.
01:59His handle looked fine in the fourth.
02:01Yes, it did.
02:02They could not take the ball from him later in that game.
02:04I don't know what's going on with that.
02:06Yeah, I mean, that's what we saw in the, I'd say, the final four minutes of that game, Anthony,
02:13is exactly why the Cavaliers made that trade.
02:16That, I think, was the first time this postseason where we really saw the dividends.
02:22Because Harden has struggled taking care of the basketball and struggled a little bit offensively.
02:29The Cavs as a team have struggled a little bit shooting the three-pointer, which is a little concerning to
02:37me.
02:37And Kenny Atkinson had said something before game three on Saturday that caught my attention about the physicality.
02:47And, hey, they're trying to wear us down.
02:48We're trying to wear them down.
02:49And when you're worn down, that typically leads to lower shooting percentage.
02:54You're not as effective shooting the three ball.
02:57So, and I don't want to put words in Kenny's mouth.
03:04But I read that as, we're getting worn down a little bit.
03:07And the three-point shooting is down as a result of it.
03:11And we have to find other areas to compensate for that.
03:15Because he also made it very clear, they can't win this series just jacking threes.
03:20That's just not going to happen.
03:21Also, by the way, Detroit is not going to win this series trying to outshoot the Cavaliers.
03:26Okay?
03:27So, I think there's a couple of different dynamics.
03:31But this is the ebbs and flows of a playoff series.
03:33We've seen this with Detroit before.
03:35With the Cavs fall down 0-2 in a seven-game series, they roar back and they either win in
03:40six or seven games.
03:42Hopefully, this is a repeat of that.
03:44I liked, for the most part, everything I saw Saturday from the Cavs.
03:48Donovan Mitchell, at times, tried to play some defense.
03:52James Harden, at times, tried to play some defense.
03:54So, I really liked, at times, when I saw from the Cavs, even that third quarter, where they blew the
03:59tire.
04:00Right?
04:00They blew the lead.
04:01All of a sudden, it's a new game and all that.
04:03The looks that they were getting and missing were good looks.
04:07They weren't forcing anything.
04:09And so, you have to...
04:10I thought the ball moved better than it had in a while.
04:13Like, you have to chalk that up to, that's basketball.
04:15I mean, in the fourth quarter, obviously, it's late in the fourth.
04:18Anybody that understands how the NBA works, it's not about...
04:22It's not really about ball movement late in the fourth.
04:24Right.
04:24When you do win close games, to gut things out, you do have to just...
04:29There is a level of shot-making.
04:30Yes.
04:30Right?
04:31You saw Kate Cunningham do that.
04:32Kate had Max Drews on him and drove right by him for a dunk.
04:35And then, oh, Max Drews is going to take a step back, ready for me to drive.
04:37I'll just bury atop of the key three.
04:39Yeah.
04:40No problem.
04:41No questions asked.
04:42And so, late in the game, it is a bunch of standing around and watching the guys do
04:47it at the highest.
04:48I saw a lot of people asking the question afterwards, oh, do you trust James Harden now?
04:52And I'm like, man, I don't understand why we're in a position to have to trust him to
04:57this extent.
04:58Well, I...
04:58How is it with the most expensive roster in the NBA, does James, after those two games
05:04that he started the series, he played 40 minutes on Saturday?
05:09Yeah.
05:09He has more minutes in the playoffs than Donovan Mitchell right now.
05:12I never, in all my pleas to make that, after they made the trade, to tell people that this
05:18was a good trade, that this made sense, that he was a clear playoff upgrade over Darius Garland.
05:24Yes, because he'd actually be on the floor playing.
05:26Well, not only that, but he's actually had monster playoff games where Darius has had
05:31few and far between, and much more reliable in terms of rebounding, and actually does,
05:37believe it or not, not that he's a great defender, but, you know, he gets some steals, he gets
05:41blocks that Darius never gets.
05:42So, he's an upgrade on offense and defense, and obviously the experience, and he's available.
05:48What I wasn't arguing for was that he would replace Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley as
05:55the go-to guy on the team.
05:57And at times in the playoffs...
05:58You mean down the stretch.
05:59At times, he's played more minutes than Donovan Mitchell.
06:02They trust James Harden more than anybody else.
06:06And to that, I'm a little surprised.
06:08Well...
06:09I did not expect that.
06:10I do have a confession.
06:13As I was watching that final 90 seconds, the two dribble drives to the basket for Harden,
06:19I didn't trust him.
06:20When he took that three with 30...
06:22Oh, why would you?
06:22When he took that three-pointer with 30 seconds to go, I didn't trust him.
06:27I was there.
06:28I was there, Daryl.
06:28I was petrified.
06:29Until it went through the net, I didn't trust him.
06:32I didn't mind the shot.
06:34I was worried he was going to fall down.
06:35Yeah.
06:36On the dribbles, right?
06:37I mean, that's what we'd seen in game two.
06:40Have his crossover taken.
06:41Yeah.
06:41I just...
06:42I was real nervous.
06:44But, you know, I do get it.
06:48The hard...
06:48I talked about this yesterday on my show.
06:50The hardest thing in sports sometimes is to stick with it when it's not going well.
06:54It really...
06:56And Kenny Atkinson's sticking with it.
06:58Three-point shooting isn't falling.
06:59They're sticking with it.
07:00James Harden's turning the ball over, dribbling it off his feet, whatever.
07:04They're sticking with him.
07:05Like, the hardest thing to do is to stick with the plan when it's not going well.
07:10The easy thing to do is to pivot and make changes.
07:13Which, by the way, this time of year, understandable because there's a sense of urgency.
07:18And that game Saturday was really the first time I felt this team had a sense of urgency.
07:23Like, it took you to being down 0-2 in this series before the light bulb went off.
07:29You realized your season was flashing in front of your eyes.
07:32Kenny Atkinson finally got the memo that, hey, I can't play Donovan Mitchell 34 minutes like I do in the
07:39regular season in the playoffs.
07:41I can't play Evan Mobley regular season minutes in the playoffs.
07:45You have to extend the minutes of your star players.
07:49I kind of feel like just looking around the league, Anthony, the Cavs are the only team trying to play
07:53their starters regular season minutes in the playoffs.
07:57They're doing load management.
07:58And I'm like, and I had said this in the Toronto series.
08:03I criticized this.
08:04And they got away with it in that series.
08:06Not going to get away with this one.
08:08So, I do like the fact that Kenny got the memo, extended the minutes a little bit.
08:13Both Harden and Mitchell probably need to be in that 38, 39, 40-minute window.
08:19I would argue if he's out of foul trouble, same thing with Evan Mobley.
08:25He needs to be in that time frame as well.
08:29I thought Evan was sensational on defense.
08:32I know so much of his offensive game is under the microscope.
08:35But he looked to me to be every part.
08:37And I know he only had the one rebound in game two.
08:39And I brought it up.
08:40Everybody brought it up.
08:41One rebound for a center.
08:43And people have gone back at the film.
08:44And they said, well, actually, he's creating rebounds for other people.
08:49Kenny and the teammates addressed that.
08:50They said, hey, yeah, he's not getting the rebounds.
08:53But, look, Donovan Mitchell got 10 rebounds on Saturday.
08:57The guards are picking it up because Evan is picking up the Pistons bigs and trying to get them away
09:05from the basket so that the guards can swoop in and grab the rebounds.
09:12And, okay, I'll hear that to a degree.
09:16But I also understand those are, like, looking at that box score and they see one rebound for a –
09:20you know, it was kind of fun.
09:22But he had eight of them on Saturday.
09:24And I either posted it on X or I made the crack when he got his first rebound.
09:30And then he got his second one.
09:32And I said, hey, look, Evan Mobley has doubled his rebounding total from game two in the first quarter.
09:38You know, being a little sarcastic and facetious about it.
09:42But I get the criticism.
09:44But also, I understand Kenny Atkinson's explanation.
09:48If the supporting cast is picking up the rebounding slack, it's okay.
09:54The problem is they're losing the possession game.
09:57The possession game.
09:58They got annihilated on the offensive glass.
10:00Right.
10:01Yeah.
10:02They're losing that possession game, which is a very important metric for Atkinson and the Cavaliers.
10:07That's not good.
10:08And, yeah, when you're getting beat on the glass, the one rebound thing for Evan isn't acceptable.
10:15But he was fantastic, I thought, Saturday afternoon.
10:18I love what I saw from him, especially, as you said, on the defensive end of the floor.
10:25We got to see a little of that defensive player of the year.
10:27Well, they'd love him to guard Cade Cunningham.
10:30The problem is they can't, because if he's on Cade Cunningham, then what does that mean, you know, underneath?
10:36Because he has done a terrific job, you know, underneath when it comes to that.
10:40But, you know, he's got to cover up for Donovan.
10:42He's got to cover up for James Harden.
10:44Max Struess's energy is incredible.
10:47We'll hear from Max next segment, because, I mean, do they win the game unless he just steals that inbounds
10:52pass?
10:52He forced another bad inbounds pass.
10:55He does all those little things.
10:56He's supercharged the little things, too.
10:58He's the supercharged version of Matthew Delevadova.
11:01Well, it's been awesome.
11:03To me, he's kind of like a mashup of Dele and Andy Veragiao.
11:09And I'm just trying to think of some of the other really good Cavalier energy guys,
11:16disruptor guys that get under the opponent's skin.
11:19Yeah, it feels like the other teams have so many more of those guys than we have.
11:23Yeah, you need that guy that just annoys the you-know-what out of your opponent.
11:27Like, when you're playing against him, you hate him, right?
11:30But when he's on your team, you love him.
11:32That's Max Struess for the Cavaliers.
11:34He's been awesome at doing all those little things.
11:37Like, on a possession-by-possession basis, you know, he can't really hang with a lot of the perimeter players
11:42in this league.
11:43But when it counted, holy cow.
11:46But that's all I'm saying is, Evan can't guard all these guys.
11:49And he can't always even be the last line of defense.
11:51Because it all depends on, you know, the actions that he's going up against.
11:56But re-watching a lot of that game and Evan's defensive prowess was on display.
12:01And he does not get even...
12:02I know he was Defensive Player of the Year coming into the year.
12:04All I've heard this year is, ah, that was such a one-off.
12:07The only reason he won it, it was a fluke, was because Wemby was injured.
12:11I've said that.
12:12But, fine, he's still a really good defensive player.
12:14I'm not taking that away from him.
12:16But I also feel like the only reason he won that award was because Wemby was hurt.
12:21Well, either way, I was...
12:24You know, in attendance for that game on Saturday, it finally felt...
12:30It felt like a sigh of relief.
12:31It also felt like, oh, we have a team that can't even build a 17-point lead.
12:36I hadn't seen it.
12:37Like, honestly, outside of that run in Game 7, you know, right before the first half and into the second
12:41half,
12:42when have we seen the Cavs play really good basketball in these playoffs?
12:45Well, we've been spoiled, too.
12:47Like, I really feel like that LeBron 2.0 from 14 to 18,
12:52and just the ease with which he just mopped the floor with the Eastern Conference and the playoffs,
12:59the four-game sweeps, the gentleman sweeps, right?
13:03Very rarely did they get to a sixth or a seventh game.
13:05I know the Pacers, they had a seventh game against them and knocked out Indiana.
13:09But, like, LeBron and that group made the playoffs look so easy.
13:15I almost feel like that's why Cavs fan is struggling right now with this team.
13:19Because none of it's going to be easy.
13:21Right.
13:21This is how the playoffs go.
13:24It's tough to win on the road.
13:26Like, you're going to have the ebbs and flows.
13:27You're going to be really good at home.
13:28You're not going to be so good on the road.
13:30You're going to have the role players step up, and it's not going to be the same guy every game.
13:34Like, this is how she goes.
13:35So, I think we got a little spoiled.
13:37Got to get readjusted how the NBA playoffs really get.
13:40Extraordinary turn of events.
13:42The improbability of Struis, A, being able to time that, B, grab it,
13:49and then C, take it all the way in and D, finish.
13:54For all of that to happen and at that time, how much time was left in a game?
13:59It was bonkers.
14:01It was absolutely bonkers.
14:03I just sat there in disbelief, and it was, maybe you'd call that the biggest reason they won the game.
14:10You could also, obviously, you know, reference the Harden scoring as well,
14:14but did they even get to that spot?
14:17And how different are the dimensions of the game if that doesn't happen?
14:21Because it's a big difference from playing with a four-point lead, a two-point lead,
14:25or when you're even or down.
14:28Well, we're used to watching that happen to the Cavs on inbounds plays.
14:33So, it was a nice...
14:35We've turned the ball over a ton.
14:38176 times, if my math is correct.
14:40Excuse me?
14:41Yeah.
14:42176 times.
14:43In what?
14:44This series?
14:45Post-season.
14:47It's...
14:47That's...
14:48I just...
14:48I sat there, and I could not believe at that moment,
14:51especially considering who was inbounding the ball.
14:53Yes, I'm checking...
14:54Because I wrote it on the box score.
14:57Yeah.
14:58100...
14:58They entered with 161 turnovers in the playoffs Saturday, plus 15.
15:03Owen, check my math here.
15:05That does equal 176, does it not?
15:07I just got a new calculator, but yeah.
15:09Okay.
15:09That's it.
15:10Me and math do not go well together.
15:12Yeah, I mean, they've evened up...
15:13The last two games, they've evened up the turnovers.
15:14And Kate Cunningham, and who I did say at the start of the series,
15:18is very susceptible to coughing it up.
15:22He had eight turnovers in that game.
15:24Now, obviously, Cade's able to make up for it a lot
15:26with just how easy he can score and create for the other guys.
15:31But, you know, there is a chance.
15:33Part of the math of this series...
15:35Like, we just assumed, all right,
15:36Harden's already worn down after two games when I said,
15:38it's over.
15:39They're not going to win...
15:40Right.
15:40You know, four or five games.
15:41We've been prisoner of the moment coming off the road.
15:44I mean, I...
15:45Okay, it's a moment two days later.
15:46I'm still not...
15:47I'm still not necessarily saying the Cavs are going to come back
15:49and win the series.
15:51But, at least it gave them a shot.
15:53But, part of the math of them being able to come back in this series
15:57is for guys like Cade Cunningham and his usage.
16:01Tobias Harris at his age with his usage.
16:03For them also to wear down.
16:05Because we've talked so much about Harden and Mitchell wearing down.
16:08Cade, I'll tell you.
16:10Like, Cade...
16:10Cade is...
16:11I know he made it look easy in the last two minutes.
16:13But, he is also going to be potentially worn down.
16:17Because he's had to put the whole team on his back.
16:19And, Tobias Harris is just...
16:20He's having an unbelievable playoffs.
16:22But, he added another 38 minutes.
16:23When is his regression to the mean going to happen?
16:26So, all I'm trying to do is conjure up a way that the Cavs can do it.
16:31But, of course, none of it matters unless they win tonight.
16:34No.
16:34Well, and Saturday was also the first time in the series where they won the points-off turnover battle as
16:42well.
16:42Because it's not just the turnovers that have been a problem for the Cavaliers.
16:46And, this goes back to the Toronto series as well.
16:48It's the fact that they're giving up tremendous scoring off those turnovers as well.
16:54So, they finally flipped that script.
16:58And, they won that battle.
16:59They got 27 points off piston turnovers, 15 of them, while limiting Detroit to 19 points off your 15 turnovers.
17:09So, the turnovers finally were a wash.
17:11No advantage for anybody.
17:12But, the Cavaliers actually had the scoring advantage off of them.
17:17The rebounding is a problem still.
17:19It's...
17:20You can't keep getting out-rebounded, especially on, you know, the defensive end of things.
17:28You can't allow the Pistons to keep getting the second and third offensive opportunities.
17:3417-5 was the offensive rebounding edge that Detroit had.
17:38And, it felt like 100-5.
17:40Yeah.
17:41And, it just...
17:41It felt like every time the ball came off the rim, Detroit was resetting their offense all over again.
17:47And, the Cavaliers also, too...
17:51I think they need to lower the empty possessions.
17:56There are too many empty possessions for the Cavs in these first three games.
18:02Where, you know, they've got scoring opportunities and they're blowing it.
18:07Either with a, you know, quick shot, even if it's open.
18:10Or, you know, going to the basket and not finishing at the rim.
18:14But, like, just too many empty possessions.
18:17So, they need to cut that down, too.
18:20I'm...
18:20After seeing Saturday's game, I'm more optimistic than I was.
18:24About what?
18:25Optimistic?
18:25Of their ability to come back and win this series.
18:28The whole series?
18:29Okay.
18:29Yeah.
18:30Now, going into Saturday's game, no.
18:32I was not optimistic at all.
18:34I was extremely cynical.
18:35I was...
18:36I was writing the eulogy.
18:37Like, when they blew the 17-point lead, I started doing, okay, how many let-em-knows?
18:41Let-em-knows, let-em-know, our season is over.
18:43Let-em-knows, we blew it again in the second round of the playoffs.
18:46Let-em-knows, we, you know, like, we're going to have to blow the team up.
18:50Let-em-knows, Kenny Atkinson's getting fired.
18:51Like, I was just going through and just, you know, writing the eulogy of them being down 0-3.
18:57They're going to have to win.
18:58They lost the possession battle in this game.
18:59That's part of the reason that the rebounding disparity, right?
19:02I mean, they're getting to take way more shots than the Cavs are.
19:05Kenny brought it up in the postgame on the possession battles.
19:08Here's Kenny after the game.
19:09That's a little lucky on our part.
19:11We can't have, and rebounding's a big part of the possession game.
19:14So our big guys are down there wrestling with their big guys.
19:17Donovan had 10 rebounds, right?
19:19Like, that's what we need.
19:20He did it last year in the Indiana series.
19:22He's got to do it all.
19:23He's got to, guard's got to, James has got to rebound.
19:25Max has got to rebound.
19:27Those guys, they have such great big guys that offensive rebound.
19:30It's going to be a guard rebounding emphasis because that's,
19:33we can't have another game where we're losing a possession game by 14.
19:37Just not, it's not sustainable.
19:39You know, a big, a big part of that, a big part of the way,
19:42that's like, I think the third time this postseason,
19:44I've heard him say something like that, which,
19:46which is about the possession game and losing it.
19:49And they can't, it's not sustainable and they can't keep doing this.
19:52They expect that they're going to win games.
19:54Yeah.
19:54Game two comes to mind because it felt like we were in the wrong positions
19:58every single time.
19:59Sometimes on the offensive glass, it's going to be just luck, right?
20:01Like, Oh, of course on the air ball three, it goes right to their guy.
20:06Like that's just, that's stuff you can't plan for.
20:07Or you can't lose a rebound off a missed free throw though.
20:10Right.
20:11Right.
20:11And there's that, that, that's an effort.
20:13That's a boxing out.
20:14That's fundamentals.
20:15And how many times have we seen that in the postseason?
20:18Yeah.
20:18Evan's been victimized by those, you know, here and there.
20:21Those drive me nuts.
20:22Um, I'll just, I'll just say this in two, one, six, four, seven, four,
20:25double 092.
20:26And you know, coming up next segment, we actually have a baseball trade.
20:29We'll talk about how significant it was because on paper,
20:32we traded for that guy and that bat gave up that to do it.
20:36But yeah, well, I'll explain, uh, when we come back after the break,
20:38but just focusing on, you know, what I was feeling like,
20:43because a lot of this is emotions, right?
20:46I'm sure you probably thought, Oh, Lima was at the game.
20:49He's been saying so much about James Harden.
20:51James Harden makes those shots.
20:53Lima is going to come back and flip flop on the series.
20:55Okay.
20:56I honestly, I didn't, I didn't, I, I thought to myself, man, that was awesome.
21:00It was, it was great to see him wake up vintage.
21:04Do you come tonight?
21:05Uh, I'm not going tonight.
21:06No, no, I will not be there tonight.
21:08It's kind of, I'm kind of hoping that, you know,
21:10the part of it is how late it's going to start more,
21:12more of the James Harden.
21:13I'm going to show Lima.
21:14Well, Hey, I'm going to show that Lima guy.
21:16I was ecstatic to see it, but I also gave it like a day slept on it.
21:21And I'm like, James Harden played 40 minutes and the ball was in his hands
21:25the entire crunch time.
21:27Do we think that's a recipe for success?
21:30Well, how about this?
21:30Donovan is anybody?
21:31Am I, am I crazy?
21:32No, I'm worried about that.
21:34I mean, but it seems that it's the ball's going to be in his hands and crunch
21:36time until this season is over.
21:39They're not going to move away from Daryl.
21:41I'm coming back to this.
21:42How in the world do you come into a season with the most expensive roster?
21:47You trade for 37 year old James Harden and the whole team,
21:51the ball has been handed to him with the season on the line.
21:54Well, how did that happen?
21:56Lost in this is Donovan scored 35.
21:59Well, he looked more like superstar, right?
22:01Donovan.
22:02Yeah.
22:02He was 13 to 24 from the field.
22:04Now three point shot wasn't as clean as we're used to seeing from him,
22:07but like he scored 35, but deferred to James Harden in the final two minutes.
22:15That's not the first time Donovan Mitchell's deferred late in a basketball
22:19game this post season.
22:20Well, so, so I want to listen, I would love to do, Hey,
22:23I told you said and point to the afternoon show and yell at Nick and say,
22:27Hey, did you watch that?
22:28That's not how I feel today.
22:29I just, I gotta be honest.
22:31I, I, I still need to see, you know, uh, more of a complete,
22:36Hey, they need to see 11 more of these things.
22:39They built up a 17 point lead.
22:41That was awesome.
22:42And I was like, all right, this is a little more like it.
22:44Finally, I get to see my team look like, like a more polished, urgent,
22:49talented team.
22:50But then how quickly that got wiped off the board.
22:53I'm like, has anything changed at all?
22:55They, they need to play tonight with a sense of urgency from the opening tip.
23:00The slow starts.
23:02That's another thing that's killing them.
23:04You know, can you sit Dean Wade and put Struis back into the starting lineup now?
23:10Now, granted Dean played less than 17 minutes on Saturday.
23:13Okay.
23:13And I always, I always argue, it's not about who starts, even though that's a great conversation
23:20to have.
23:20And we always talk about who's starting, who should start, but the, the Cavs, they, they've
23:27been starting slow.
23:28They need to bring the energy tonight.
23:30They need to jump out in front from the opening tip and they need to have their foot on the,
23:36uh, piston's throat the whole night.
23:39Not a breath of fresh air, not an, not a scintilla.
23:43Of hope for the Pistons tonight.
23:45The Cavs just need to absolutely bludgeon them tonight.
23:49That's what has to happen.
23:50Granted.
23:51Okay.
23:51Just score one more point than them.
23:53We're all good.
23:53But you understand what I'm saying?
23:55Like they got to come out from the opening tip, jump on them, uh, give yourself an early
24:00cushion, maintain that cushion, make life easier on yourself, make life easier on all
24:05of us.
24:06That'd be nice.
24:07Wouldn't it?
24:07I don't think Cleveland fan can take these, uh, you know, heart pounding nail biting
24:14playoff games with, as you put it, the most expensive roster in the NBA.
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