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00:00:00In his computer Alberto Stasi, he was acquitted for the murder of Chiara Poggi, but the judges wrote
00:00:08the reasons for the sentence and they said they re-examined the evidence.
00:00:12Something's not quite right; we'll talk about it soon on Linea Gialla. Stay tuned.
00:00:17The IT court establishes that the PC was turned on at 9.35 and the thesis file was
00:00:24saved continuously from 9.36am to 12.20pm.
00:00:36Welcome back to Linea Gialla, my fellow viewers! Alberto Stasi's computer is one of the keys to understanding the murder.
00:00:44by Chiara Poggi.
00:00:45The reasons for the sentence have arrived in recent days, which have effectively reopened the trial on Alberto Stasi, we must
00:00:53still investigating.
00:00:55The judges say they should reexamine the evidence. Why? We'll talk about it. But in the meantime, I'll tell you that Chiara Poggi's murder begins...
00:01:04with this phone call. Let's hear it.
00:01:07Yes, the ambulance was waiting for me on Via Giovanni Pascoli in Garlasco.
00:01:11In Garlasco?
00:01:12Yes.
00:01:14There at Giovanni Pascoli's number?
00:01:16It's the 29th, the dead-end street, I find it right away.
00:01:19As?
00:01:20It's a dead end street, I think it's 29, I'm not sure.
00:01:23But what's happening?
00:01:24I think they killed someone, I'm not sure, maybe he's alive.
00:01:28But what do you mean? I mean, what happened? What do you see?
00:01:31Now I'm through the police, there's blood everywhere and she's lying on the ground.
00:01:36On the street or at home?
00:01:37No, at home.
00:01:38Yes, but is she a relative of his?
00:01:40No, she's my girlfriend.
00:01:41How old is this person?
00:01:43You are six.
00:01:44But is she at home now?
00:01:45No, I'm in the caderno, I just arrived, now I'll tell you what happened.
00:01:51Professor Bruno, what can we deduce from this phone call?
00:01:55What state of mind was Alberto Stasi in at that moment?
00:01:58It's a difficult state of mind, he's a bit reticent, but he's also, he says later,
00:02:08when faced with the question who she is, well, she says who she is and what she is doing.
00:02:12But, look, he hides, it's as if he wanted to say that a person has died, come and see, look,
00:02:21but it seems he doesn't know more, well, whether he's hiding it or not is not given by the phone call,
00:02:27but of course the attitude is a bit cold, you know, not...
00:02:31Lawyer Tizioni, the lawyer of the Poggi family, good evening, lawyer, Stasi has always maintained
00:02:38of having started the phone call in front of the villa on Via Pascoli, according to the prosecution this is not the case,
00:02:44This is an important point for you. Why? I ask you to be brief.
00:02:49Absolutely, in reality even the sentences acknowledge this discrepancy, in the sense that reconstructed
00:02:53with the phone records and also for a fortuitous circumstance, because if you hear the voice of the policeman
00:02:59at the intercom of the Carabinieri barracks, it was possible to reconstruct that phone call
00:03:03It was not carried out from outside the Stasi's residence, but near the barracks.
00:03:09It is true that they are not far from each other, but it is a fact that among many others has in some way
00:03:14way
00:03:15aroused curiosity and then subsequently highlighted the many contradictions in this boy's story.
00:03:23Attorney Giarda is Alberto Stasi's lawyer. Do you dispute this thesis or not?
00:03:30Is there something strange about that phone call?
00:03:33No, they tried in every way to pass it off as a strange phone call to say
00:03:37that Alberto was cold at that moment. The witnesses who saw Alberto on that occasion
00:03:42they saw him shocked, so what is most important and relevant is what they saw
00:03:47the two witnesses who received Alberto at the barracks.
00:03:49It all happened in the early afternoon of August 13, 2007. What is the story we are telling you?
00:03:58Telling? What happened that day inside that little house? Francesco Cremonesi, let's hear it.
00:04:082007, a day in Fosa, it's August 13th. Everything flows slowly in Garlasco, less than 10,000
00:04:16residents in the heart of the Pavia province. Around 2 p.m., 118 received a call.
00:04:22which will forever change the history of this town, hidden among the rice fields.
00:04:48The caller was Alberto Stasi, a 24-year-old economics student at Bocconi University in Milan.
00:04:54This boy just found the body of his girlfriend, Chiara Poggi, 26 years old.
00:05:06Chiara lies face down in a pool of blood on the stairs leading from the living room of the villa
00:05:10of the Poggi family lead to the semi-basement. The young woman is still wearing her pajamas and has the
00:05:16skull smashed at the nape of the neck. Rescuers arriving on the scene cannot
00:05:20than confirm her death. Chiara probably knew her killer. She removed the alarm
00:05:28Then she opened the door and let him into the living room. A fight broke out there.
00:05:33Chiara is violently hit in the face and head and then falls to the ground. The killer
00:05:38drags by the feet to the stairs that lead to the basement and ends there with several
00:05:42blows to the back of the head, probably with a hammer that will never be found. He is immediately
00:05:51The possibility of a robbery gone wrong has been ruled out. Nothing is missing from the house, and there are no signs of theft.
00:05:55of the hamlet. Investigators are targeting Chiara's boyfriend, Alberto Stasi.
00:06:04The boy's cold tone of voice while calling 118 arouses suspicion and his alibi is not
00:06:10convincing. Alberto claims he stayed home to write his thesis while Chiara died.
00:06:16But above all, the doubts come from the soles of Alberto's shoes. Despite the scene
00:06:21of the crime is completely covered in blood, these are clean. And then there's a bicycle.
00:06:32It would be that of Alberto that a witness saw outside the Poggi house during
00:06:36the murder. Chiara's DNA was isolated from the pedal of this bicycle. On September 24th
00:06:43In 2007 Alberto was arrested but released four days later due to lack of evidence
00:06:49sufficient. Stasi remains the only suspect in Chiara Poggi's death. The dramatic turn of events
00:06:58arrives on December 20, 2007. In the computer of the good boy, the Bocconi graduate Alberto Stasi,
00:07:04Thousands of ARN videos, child pornography materials and films depicting children are found
00:07:10He and Chiara in intimate situations. On April 9, 2009, the trial began before the preliminary hearing judge.
00:07:16with an abbreviated trial. According to the prosecution, Chiara, the evening before the crime, had discovered
00:07:22child pornography material on Alberto's computer. A fight broke out. In the morning
00:07:27Alberto would have returned to Chiara and killed her. However, the preliminary hearing judge is asking for new
00:07:33expert reports, for example on Alberto's shoes, which were inexplicably clean.
00:07:42According to the defense experts, the blood stains on the floor of the Poggi house at the time of entry
00:07:47of Stasi were already solidified. And that's why the Stasi shoes don't remain
00:07:53smeared. Then the bicycle. According to the GUP experts, the one on the pedal might not even be
00:07:58be blood. Finally the PC. The expert report shows that between 9.35 and 12.20, Alberto remained
00:08:05in front of the computer working on his thesis and viewing pornographic material.
00:08:12On December 17, 2009, Stasi was acquitted due to insufficient evidence, but on November 8
00:08:192011, the appeal trial returns to court. The prosecution requests further investigations into a
00:08:24blond hair found in Chiara's hand and on another woman's bicycle present
00:08:29in Stasi's garage, different from the one analyzed. The prosecution claims that the murder could be
00:08:36was carried out between 9.12 and 9.35. Precisely the time frame in which Stasi could not
00:08:42to be
00:08:43on the computer. On December 6, 2011, Alberto Stasi was also acquitted by the Court of Assizes of Appeal.
00:08:51of Milan, but the Supreme Court overturned everything. On April 18, 2013, the sentence was overturned.
00:09:02Professor Bruno, you have always been convinced of Alberto Stasi's innocence, for what reason?
00:09:07reason?
00:09:08Because I find no motive capable of accounting for such a cruel, such a strong crime,
00:09:18There is no specific movement. People kill each other because there is hatred towards these people.
00:09:26people, a strong hatred, very strong, so much so that it pushes one to kill. In this case I
00:09:33I don't see this hatred and I don't even see the evidence that it should be remade, unless
00:09:38By evidence we don't mean what we've heard.
00:09:41Lawyer Rizzone, let's hear from the Poggi family's lawyer, why do you think instead
00:09:44Is Stasi guilty of Chiara's murder? Tell us in a few words.
00:09:50Clearly, first of all because as the Court of Cassation told us, a vision is necessary
00:09:55of the evidence that converges on Alberto Stasi, which are not at all few,
00:09:59which are serious, precise and consistent. And then because if this material is further
00:10:06integrated with those evidentiary requests on which we have insisted so much and which the Supreme Court
00:10:10Today he tells us that they will have to be done, we believe that we will really get to have full
00:10:15certainty of Stasi's responsibility. If I may, I will address the issue of
00:10:21motive. I believe that it is not always necessary, and the Court of Cassation also says so, to find
00:10:26a motive that in interpersonal relationships can be even the most varied. There is no
00:10:30never a logical reason to kill someone except in a strictly criminal context for a
00:10:35settling of scores and so on. All crimes that occur in personal spheres,
00:10:39If we then look at them from the outside, they seem illogical to us.
00:10:43Attorney Giarta, let's also hear your reply.
00:10:45Yes, let's say that this issue regarding the motive was also highlighted during
00:10:50the appeal process and the Attorney General even went so far as to say that according to
00:10:55she has no motive and there is no need for a motive, exactly as the lawyer said
00:10:59Tizioni. In our opinion there must at least be a reason why Alberto should have done
00:11:05this thing. No one has ever identified this reason. We will come back later, I think, to the
00:11:11reasons of the Cassation.
00:11:12Absolutely, because there are too many things to clarify in the murder of Chiara Poggi and
00:11:17This is probably the reason why the Court of Cassation asked to re-examine
00:11:23the evidence. What are the judges' doubts? Cremonesi, again.
00:11:30The second degree sentence which acquits Alberto Stasi has an approach which is not coherent with the principles
00:11:36of circumstantial evidence. The Court of Cassation states this in the reasons filed a few
00:11:42days ago. So, everything had to be redone. The Supreme Court therefore upheld the Prosecutor's objections.
00:11:49of Milan and Chiara's family, ordering new investigations into the evidence. The magistrates
00:11:55they will have to go back and examine some fundamental elements. The experts will have to reconstruct
00:12:04from the beginning and in great detail the position of the bloodstains on the scale
00:12:08where Chiara's body was found in the Poggi villa.
00:12:18The biological traces on Alberto Stasi's bicycle will have to be re-examined, but above all
00:12:23A black women's bicycle will have to be analyzed. This is the one that was initially rejected.
00:12:29because it did not match the witnesses' description.
00:12:36The brown-blond hair found during the autopsy in Chiara's hand will have to be
00:12:40subjected to further tests. In-depth genetic studies were also requested.
00:12:51According to the Court of Cassation, there were omissions in Stasi's account during the interrogations.
00:12:56narrative. Alberto in fact would have provided inconsistent timetables with respect to the dynamics
00:13:01of events and phone calls. But these are not the only points that have been harshly criticized.
00:13:06debated in the case. Since the first instance trial, the lawyers have clashed
00:13:11on other very important elements. Alberto's fingerprints, mixed with DNA
00:13:21of the victim, are found on the soap dispenser in the bathroom, where the killer had
00:13:26washed before fleeing. Evidence for the prosecution, but also for the defense. And the judge's consultants,
00:13:31the answer is that Alberto and Chiara both touched the object several times in the days
00:13:36previous. For the prosecution, the fact that Alberto's shoes were clean proves
00:13:46that Stasi wanted to erase the evidence. In this video, in the trial documents, it is
00:13:51Alberto himself retraced the crime scene, completely covered in blood.
00:13:56It's impossible not to step on it. According to the defense experts, however, the shoes are free of
00:14:01of traces because its water-repellent waft could have been cleaned by walking in the hours
00:14:06subsequent. Alberto has always claimed to be working on the PC for his thesis, while
00:14:16Chiara died. An initially unprovable alibi. However, the alibi was later confirmed.
00:14:23The IT expertise establishes that the PC was turned on at 9.35 and the thesis file
00:14:30was rescued continuously from 9.36am to 12.20pm.
00:14:39A mystery within a mystery. Despite expert reports from the prosecution, defense, and civil plaintiff, no one
00:14:45he managed to give a consistent time of Chiara's death.
00:14:52Joining us from Catanzaro is Paolo Reale, Chiara Poggi's cousin and a computer expert.
00:15:00Good evening, Paolo. What do these reasons mean to you?
00:15:08Good evening Salvo, good evening everyone. These motivations mean a lot. I'll make up for it.
00:15:15a little about what happened in the second degree trial. We practically
00:15:20we arrived at that procedure by asking for a whole series of in-depth analyses related to the
00:15:25things that have remained unfinished. For example, you mentioned the walking expertise that in
00:15:30first degree was somehow left incomplete. We asked for the hair to be verified which
00:15:35It hadn't been done. We also asked to look at the nails better, which wasn't the case.
00:15:40had been done. We asked above all to look at all the circumstantial evidence together
00:15:44which already existed in the accusatory framework, in short, an operation that was never carried out.
00:15:50Now, from our point of view, now that the Supreme Court will allow us to get to the bottom of the matter
00:15:54of all these elements, we believe that this is then consistent with what we have always
00:16:00asked, that is, to get to the bottom of a matter. We are talking about a serious homicide in which
00:16:05The victim was a young girl, killed in a cruel manner. It is the duty of the State.
00:16:10and even the Court of Cassation recognizes this, going all the way without leaving anything behind
00:16:14untried.
00:16:15We agree with Paolo Reale's words. Please, Attorney Giarda, for further information.
00:16:22on these details that we heard from Reale and Tizioni, must be done
00:16:28why are they worthy of a state that must seek the truth anyway?
00:16:33Look, the fact that they must be done is a deduction that can be drawn from the sentence
00:16:39of the Court of Cassation which the Poggi family has obtained, which in reality is not so,
00:16:45in the sense that the Supreme Court ruling does not say that they must be done, it says
00:16:49that the new process will have to re-evaluate these requests of the investigator, therefore not that they have to
00:16:53be done. We have nothing to fear, in the sense that all the investigations
00:16:58the new analysis had been requested, they were all tests that in our opinion had already been carried out
00:17:04facts and had already been done as unrepeatable investigations and therefore in a phase in which they have
00:17:10All the consultants participated. But if they need to be redone, we don't have any problem.
00:17:14in the sense that Alberto has a clear conscience, he did not commit what he is accused of, for
00:17:20all investigations are welcome in order to obtain a stronger acquittal sentence.
00:17:25Marzio Capra is a forensic geneticist, consultant for the Poggi family, for you instead
00:17:33Goat, you need to reread every source of evidence, from the bicycle pedals to the shoes worn
00:17:40by Alberto Stasi? Then we need to make some considerations, first of all all these
00:17:45sources of evidence must be reanalyzed within an organic whole, because
00:17:51each of these elements, anything that has emerged from these investigations cannot
00:17:58be disconnected from what has emerged in relation to other types of finds. There are
00:18:02of the finds that are particularly important, those that have already been highlighted, for example
00:18:07the soles of the shoes, that is, you have to do some sort of reasoning, it's not possible
00:18:11that a pair of shoes get stained with blood or otherwise collect a certain amount
00:18:16of blood and that this blood disappears after only 17 hours that a person has worn them
00:18:21in front of the judicial police during interrogation and at the same time of the
00:18:25traces of sweat, which he himself may have deposited at the time he delivered
00:18:30these findings remain after all the investigations that were carried out after two years,
00:18:35which is what these shoes have actually demonstrated. So there is some
00:18:39which perhaps needs to be reevaluated.
00:18:42Do you want to respond to a little touching?
00:18:44A premise is made which in my opinion is wrong, that is the fact that the shoes got dirty
00:18:49of blood. It is clear that if we make this premise which is wrong then the whole reasoning
00:18:54It goes without saying. There was an expert assessment, an expert report that demonstrated that there was the possibility
00:18:59to avoid getting your shoes dirty.
00:19:01In reality the expert report says exactly the opposite and the first and second instance judges give it
00:19:06act. According to these rulings it is absolutely impossible to avoid small stains of
00:19:11blood. So we start from the objective fact that the blood was crushed anyway.
00:19:16The problem arises because of the large bloodstains. If you wanted to have that piece reviewed,
00:19:19of film in which Stasi replicates his path, he will physically see how the experiment was
00:19:27maimed, because that door should be the one that leads to the stairs, which Stasi himself
00:19:32He said he came down to see the body. And as his spectators will see,
00:19:37There's a large bloodstain in front of that door. If the path had been taken
00:19:41completely, that bloodstain had to be intercepted on the way down, on the way back up.
00:19:47Let's take into account that Stasi would have said, and it is objective to have made this move,
00:19:51in the dark, with difficulty because he couldn't open the door and then ran away
00:19:56away without seeing where you were putting your feet. This fact is important because it is quite clear,
00:20:01I would almost say it is common knowledge that the small blood stains could also
00:20:06be slightly dried, but a large blood stain will always have that part,
00:20:11let's call it properly gelatinous, semi-liquid, which remains much more easily adhered to the shoes.
00:20:16So much so that the first instance judge says, if he had intercepted a large stain,
00:20:20then it would be impossible to argue that his shoes would have remained clean, even
00:20:25after some time. So we ask, let's complete this test, but let's do it as it is.
00:20:30the facts are gone.
00:20:30We are also seeing the images that lawyer Tizioni referred to earlier.
00:20:35We see the big bloodstain right in front of the door.
00:20:39Lawyer Giarci.
00:20:39Yes, these are the experimental tests that have been done. If we also show
00:20:45the actual crime scene photos, that's the only big blemish, because
00:20:51At first we were talking about a scene completely contaminated with blood. If we show the photos it is not
00:20:55so. So it's true that there was the possibility of avoiding those little stains, it's also true
00:21:01that experimental activity has shown that if traces of blood go on the shoes
00:21:06they can be dispersed after a very short time. We have carried out the experimental activities
00:21:12for these.
00:21:13It remains an objective fact, sorry, that the judge had requested to repeat exactly for
00:21:19as much as possible the movement made by Stasi. It is evident that if we suspend this test
00:21:24and we don't do it by lowering the two steps, as he must have peacefully done because
00:21:29otherwise he couldn't see the body, let's not make him repeat it in the dark and let's not do it
00:21:33make that move that he himself says he made, it will be just as easy to avoid
00:21:38that stain as, and I'm already posting the reply that I imagine will be made, the police did.
00:21:43The Carabinieri when they intervened in a climate scene found that door
00:21:46open, all lit up and they knew there was a body, so they could with the door
00:21:51open obviously jump, do not put your foot on that big stain. The same
00:21:55We are sure that if the movement is repeated as it was, it is not possible and the data
00:22:00objective is also given by the fact that on that stain there are the footprints of the shoe
00:22:04with dots. The killer, moving in that small space, had to put his weapons there.
00:22:08legs, his feet and we are sure that by repeating the experiment completely we will have proof of
00:22:13This.
00:22:14Let's talk about another element, Portera. Further studies have been requested in particular.
00:22:20on a brown-blond hair found in Chiara's hand, I believe during a forensic examination.
00:22:28In the left hand, precisely. This hair has actually already been analyzed.
00:22:34from the RIS as regards the bulb part, because a hair has the bulb part that
00:22:39it is attached to the skin and then there is the stem part, so this finding that was
00:22:45It had already been done on the bulb and apparently it had given a negative result because it was not enough
00:22:48the material. As regards classical DNA, it is possible to carry out a further investigation
00:22:54which will probably be requested at the appeal stage, or make an assessment of the
00:22:59Mitochondrial DNA which is another type of DNA that in these cases could give something in
00:23:07more and the trunk could also be subjected to investigation. However, we are talking about
00:23:12very difficult analyses of DNA extracts which have been in freezers since 2006.
00:23:18It is certainly useful to do so, but we should apply the most sophisticated techniques to obtain
00:23:24a result. There are limits, says the lawyer for you.
00:23:26Ricciò. First of all we must make this premise, in the other hand of Chiara Poggi are
00:23:30a lock of hair was found subjected to nuclear and mitochondrial DNA analysis, then
00:23:35we realize, I think evidently, the incongruity of not analyzing in the same
00:23:39way the single hat found in the other hand, moreover so different that at first sight
00:23:44the coroner had defined it as an animal skin, therefore a hair so
00:23:49different from the others that should have attracted more attention and not less attention.
00:23:54It was subsequently evaluated by the RIS and it was found that there is human DNA and therefore
00:23:59at this point we ask, I believe at a truly negligible cost, why these tests
00:24:03they will cost a few hundred euros and have already been done on the other lock of hair too
00:24:07hair, to do what we thought should have been done a long time ago.
00:24:11In your opinion, were there any mistakes made in the investigations and attention?
00:24:14I mainly evaluate the errors made in the procedural phase because in the investigation phase
00:24:19the injured party has little right to intervene, there have certainly been difficulties
00:24:24and probably also some errors, what we complained about were however
00:24:28the failure to comply with what we consider to be our rights in the procedural phase and are
00:24:33those who then led us to take the course for the Supreme Court.
00:24:35Let's hear Attorney Giastro's reply.
00:24:36Yes, look, the first element to evaluate is to establish whether it is actually a hair
00:24:43because as Lawyer Tizioni, the Public Prosecutor's Consultant, rightly said
00:24:47he had ruled it out because he thought it was a cat hair, so we're always talking about
00:24:52epiliferous formation, then the association is made that it is a hair.
00:24:55Second element, it is not a blond hair because the reference to the hair is clear
00:24:59blond, Alberto, you see him in all the photos, it's clear.
00:25:01The hair is brown and not blonde and the tests that are requested were
00:25:07of the investigations that had been excluded by all the consultants during the phase of the
00:25:11preliminary investigations, so everyone agreed not to do that test because
00:25:16the hair was too short, so now they come to say that they want to do
00:25:20Let's do this exam, but at the time of the preliminary investigations all the consultants
00:25:25they agreed not to do them.
00:25:26There are a number of points to clarify, goat quickly that I have to give the opportunity.
00:25:30Yes, that's not quite right, let's say that this hair was the most important hair of all,
00:25:35so that it was the only one that the RIS analyzed, or at least attempted to analyze, being a
00:25:40hair with a bulb did the only thing that the Parma RIS could do, that is
00:25:44nuclear DNA analysis.
00:25:46I'll stop you here, what attitude did Alberto Stasi have in front of the investigators?
00:25:51She's always been a cold, detached person, but what did she say about Chiara Poggi?
00:25:55Soon on the Yellow Line.
00:25:58We met Chiara Poggi about nine years ago, when we both attended the
00:26:02Garlasco parish summer camp.
00:26:14Welcome back live to Linea Gialla, fellow viewers, we're talking about the murder
00:26:18of Chiara Poggi in Garlasco and of Alberto Stasi's behavior during interrogations.
00:26:25Let's hear how he himself reconstructed that day in front of the investigators.
00:26:32Pay close attention to his words.
00:26:36Report of information gathering against Stasi Alberto.
00:26:41August 13, 2007, 4:00 PM.
00:26:44I met Chiara Poggi about nine years ago, when we both attended the parish summer camp
00:26:49from Garlasco.
00:26:50My family and I had just moved to Garlasco from Liscate.
00:26:55After the summer camp I met Chiara again about four years ago.
00:26:59The meeting was casual and on that occasion, she asked me for some volumes so she could
00:27:04prepare to support your university thesis.
00:27:08On that occasion I gave Chiara my mobile number.
00:27:13Today, around 1.30pm, I tried to call both with my cell phone and with my phone
00:27:18my house.
00:27:19The calls were directed both to Chiara's cell phone and to her home number.
00:27:24I never received a reply.
00:27:26After that, I left the house and went home with my Volkswagen Golf car
00:27:31by Chiara.
00:27:31I rang, but got no answer.
00:27:34I also saw the kitchen window open and the burglar alarm system on.
00:27:40The door opened and I saw no sign of forced entry.
00:27:43Entering near the kitchen, I saw blood and a utensil, perhaps a flowerpot, on the floor.
00:27:49I ran into the little room and didn't see Chiara.
00:27:52I looked in the bathroom and it was empty.
00:27:54Going back from the small room towards the entrance door, you pass near the door that
00:27:58leads to the cellar.
00:28:01August 13, 2007, 11:45 PM.
00:28:05I saw that the folding door leading to the cellar was closed.
00:28:10When I opened the door, I noticed blood in the lower right corner.
00:28:14I went down a step and bowing forward to the left, I saw Chiara's body,
00:28:19which was located approximately in the final part of the stairs, which is straight, with
00:28:24the front part lying on the steps, with the head downwards compared to the feet.
00:28:29He was wearing pink pajamas consisting of a short-sleeved shirt and very short shorts.
00:28:35short.
00:28:35August 17, 2007, 3:45 PM.
00:28:39I've seen Chiara's face quite a bit, I remember a white part.
00:28:43As soon as I saw her I ran away.
00:28:45I turned to go back up the steps and ran, without looking where I was putting it.
00:28:49feet, towards the front door.
00:28:52I got into my Volkswagen Golf, started the engine and redialed the number.
00:28:56118.
00:28:57While I was driving I spoke to the operator, I don't remember if it was a man or a woman.
00:29:01I remember arriving at the barracks while I was still talking to the 118 operator.
00:29:07August 22, 2007, 2:10 PM.
00:29:11Stasi appears to be a person informed of the facts, he investigated the murder of Chiara Poggi.
00:29:16Report of spontaneous presentation of a person under investigation.
00:29:20I stand by my previous statements and would like to make the following clarifications.
00:29:24As for the white part which I previously said I saw and which I recognized as
00:29:29the white part of the face, I want to clarify that this is what I thought or believed
00:29:33to have seen, because in fact it was just a moment and I felt something that I never
00:29:39I have never tried in my life.
00:29:41I want to clarify that by panic, fear, a feeling I can't describe.
00:29:46I didn't actually look and what I said is what I thought I saw.
00:29:52I didn't even see the pink of the pajamas.
00:29:54I thought it was the pink pajamas because I had seen them so many other times anyway.
00:29:58I don't remember if I saw bloodstains or if I stepped on bloodstains.
00:30:03on the path I took from the cellar door to the exit.
00:30:06Question from the PM.
00:30:08Did you kill Chiara?
00:30:10Answer.
00:30:11No, absolutely not.
00:30:12It wasn't me.
00:30:13I know I was home alone and I can't prove to you that I was home any more than my statements.
00:30:18and phone calls.
00:30:20I reiterate that Chiara and I have never argued and that even recently things have improved between us.
00:30:25we were fine.
00:30:26Chiara and I made some private videos, that is, it is precise that with the camera
00:30:32we filmed ourselves having sexual intercourse.
00:30:35Sometimes I had to insist on making her do them, but I didn't force her though.
00:30:43What doesn't add up, in your opinion, Attorney Tizioni, in the deposition we heard, in the
00:30:49various depositions?
00:30:50Let's say that the last one in particular must be acknowledged as being made when in some way
00:30:54so much news had, so to speak, migrated to the Stasi, they were even
00:30:59photos of the scene were shown.
00:31:01So it is evident that in some way, in some adjustment it may have also been
00:31:07done.
00:31:07Let's say that everything that happened that morning doesn't add up, it doesn't add up.
00:31:12the fact that a boyfriend leaves his girlfriend at one in the morning, around nine
00:31:17he starts sending her a first ring, he calls her all morning, and this is the Supreme Court
00:31:21somehow he highlights it to us, several times, even though we live at a laughable distance
00:31:27which can be done by bicycle in a few minutes, as we have demonstrated, even without having anything
00:31:31of particular to do if not his own thesis, while acknowledging that he has taken care of
00:31:36wait until 2pm, if we want to calculate from 1am, the last minute he had it
00:31:40seen, until 2pm, to go and see what had happened.
00:31:44This is a fact that certainly impresses us in some way.
00:31:49We are also struck by the fact that, once again, the Court of Cassation also recalls
00:31:53this passage, which also releases me to the problem of the motive, this speech of the
00:31:58films made, this issue of the videos found in Stasi's computer, and on this the Prosecutor's Office
00:32:05General did a great job, Dr. Barbaini was really very helpful.
00:32:09effective and once again the Court of Cassation also recalls these steps, this personal relationship
00:32:14there was certainly some kind of relationship between them, the Court of Cassation describes to us critical issues in the relationship
00:32:19sexual intercourse between them, tells us about pornographic and child pornographic deviations of the accused,
00:32:25judicially ascertained and documented to be recovered on a personal computer.
00:32:30It may not be the motive, but we know that the night before Chiara had only
00:32:36Alberto's computer is down for ten minutes, because Alberto is leaving to go and look after
00:32:40his dog, and in those ten minutes he pounces on that computer and starts looking at its contents,
00:32:44because it definitely opens at least 4 or 5 folders.
00:32:47It is possible, lawyer Giarda, that Chiara Poggi has taken possession, as the lawyer claims
00:32:54Tizioni, about Alberto's computer and this thing could somehow have generated a fight
00:33:01among them, I'm not talking about murder.
00:33:03But look, it's one of the first hypotheses that was made, because at least in the first instance
00:33:08an attempt had been made to identify a motive.
00:33:12Since we are talking about data that have been procedurally ascertained, it has been procedurally ascertained that the material
00:33:18felonious pornographic crime for which he was convicted, the last available date on the computer is April 2007,
00:33:26so in August that material wasn't there, so Chiara couldn't have seen that material.
00:33:31Whether he may have seen pornographic material we do not know, in the sense that it was done
00:33:36an investigation, also in this case for Italy, during the first degree phase, is
00:33:41It has been ruled out that Chiara saw the folder called military which contained this
00:33:48pornographic material.
00:33:49Added to this is the fact that Chiara was aware of this, so to speak, passion
00:33:54Alberto's for pornography and movies, obviously we can't show them, but they are...
00:34:02No, we've already had our problems.
00:34:04They are short films of personal relationships between boyfriend and girlfriend.
00:34:11What doesn't add up when making these assumptions is that there is no testimony
00:34:17who says that there were problems between Alberto and Chiara, there is no one who tells us that
00:34:23there were problems in the relationship between Alberto and Chiara, indeed all the witnesses
00:34:28They say they were fine and there was no reason for resentment between the two.
00:34:32But judges write critical issues, right?
00:34:35They write critical issues, reasoned opinion.
00:34:37Apart from the almost banal consideration that one thing is what a couple does in the
00:34:42one's own intimacy and sharing, one thing is what an individual can do alone.
00:34:46I imagine that each of us can have a complicity in a couple, but not necessarily
00:34:51can accept that Patena himself collects 10,000 pornographic images, not child pornographic,
00:34:57because the pornographic ones had been kept previously and let's open a parenthesis, Chiara
00:35:02he also had on his computer a search for an article published in a national newspaper
00:35:07which dealt with the problem of pedophilia, so the problem existed.
00:35:12I'll quickly conclude, it's clear that the fact that they shared these videos among themselves
00:35:20does not denote in itself that Chiara could accept ablivitum, to cure, what Stasi
00:35:26he was going to do it alone and I conclude, it is not even true that there is certain proof that Chiara
00:35:31had knowledge of the fact that Stasi watched these films except for a sparse testimony
00:35:36dating back to years before, to which Chiara however says I still don't agree and also
00:35:42If he had tolerated it, nothing prevents him from saying that evening, stop looking at these things.
00:35:46Could he have said that, professor? Just look at those things?
00:35:50No, because this means not having the slightest idea of what two engaged couples are like today,
00:35:55two boys of that age and in a situation like that of Garlasco, because if there were
00:36:00with this idea we would not have talked about everything that has been done before in this broadcast.
00:36:05So we are having a trial and therefore a judicial persecution that goes beyond
00:36:12all common sense towards a single character which character is above all
00:36:23suspected, first for being Chiara Poggi's boyfriend, second for having been the
00:36:28person who found it. So these are two key points and they didn't hurt.
00:36:35law enforcement to investigate him, but that's enough.
00:36:41Enough says Professor Bruno, I don't agree with Tizioni and our geneticist Capra, then I want
00:36:47We also heard Paolo Reale. We heard what Alberto Stasi said during the various interrogations,
00:36:53Let's see instead how things would have gone according to the prosecution that day, with Erika
00:36:59Grispo. Let's see.
00:37:01In the records of the trial for the murder of Chiara Poggi there is this video, a unique document
00:37:07made with two actors by the Poggi family experts, right in their home, in the
00:37:12exact locations where the murder took place. It is the reconstruction of the methods by which
00:37:17The murderer of the girl from Garlasco acted. The video of the experts also helps to establish the
00:37:23the timing of the events. That day Chiara was home alone, someone was ringing the bell
00:37:29at the intercom. Presumably a person Chiara knows very well, in fact he turns off
00:37:36the burglar alarm and opens the front door. Chiara lets her killer in and does so.
00:37:47They sit in the living room. There they argue and a fight begins. Chiara is violently beaten.
00:37:58to the face. Near the stairs, the killer hits Chiara with a blunt object.
00:38:10The killer apparently lingered in the house for almost a minute. This explains the size of the house.
00:38:16of the blood stain next to the stairs. Another 3D video,
00:38:27always experts, adds details to the reconstruction.
00:38:57The killer grabs the girl by the ankles and drags her towards the hallway, where the stairs are.
00:39:04which he takes to the cellar. There he finishes her off with the final blows to the back of the head. He lifts her up and takes her
00:39:12from her armpits and drops it on the internal stairs. From that moment she moves to the bathroom,
00:39:23where he washes himself of blood, traces of which can in fact be found in the sink drainpipe.
00:39:30He also takes care to clean the blood from the sink and soap dispenser.
00:39:37They also stop traces of blood on the mat, on the towel and on the towel rack.
00:39:43Finally, he is careful to take away the dirty towel.
00:39:48After leaving the bathroom, the killer continues to wander around the house, presumably to collect his things.
00:39:54Finally he leaves the house.
00:40:02I would like to go back to Paolo Reale, Chiara Poggi's cousin, an IT expert.
00:40:09Paolo, for you, expert witnesses, the completion of the appraisal is essential
00:40:14to understand Alberto Stasi's exact walk that day, is that it?
00:40:22Yes, exactly. You already talked about it in the studio, because actually, as you can see,
00:40:29probably from the pictures, I don't know if you have the opportunity to send them, there is a large blood stain
00:40:36still fresh that was in front of the door to the book that led to the stairs where it was later found
00:40:42Clear.
00:40:42So, what is the crucial element of this reconstruction?
00:40:47That, evidently, this was also a technical investigation carried out,
00:40:51if Stasi had entered the house and touched that fresh blood stain,
00:40:55well, those traces could never have disappeared even in the hours that followed
00:41:00before the shoes were confiscated.
00:41:02So, since in his own story, the judge had asked in the first instance to reconstruct the walk
00:41:10in a very precise manner, that is, following exactly what the Stasi himself had declared
00:41:15to have done inside the house.
00:41:17So, Stasi claims to have passed in front of the folding door to go to the TV room,
00:41:22then having returned, having stopped in front, having opened the accordion door,
00:41:27of having entered, gone down the steps and then returned to exit after discovering the body.
00:41:33So, all these operations done in a narrow environment, with little light,
00:41:37with a large stain of still fresh blood, in our opinion, completing that expertise
00:41:43which has never actually been carried out, allows us to understand whether it was actually possible
00:41:48or not to avoid that large stain of fresh blood, which in our opinion was evidently not possible.
00:41:53Thanks to Paolo Reale.
00:41:54Lawyer Giarta.
00:41:56Look, there was an expert assessment on this too and what doesn't add up in this whole reconstruction
00:42:03is that whoever entered shortly after Alberto Stasi did not leave any ready,
00:42:08They are the two carabinieri we were talking about before who entered without any protection,
00:42:13so without the shoes, so if that stain was, as the Royal engineer says, fresh and it wasn't,
00:42:19They too should have left traces, but there are none.
00:42:22There is a shoe trace and this shoe trace does not match any of the footwear
00:42:29which were seized from Alberto Stasi.
00:42:31It was also hypothesized that Alberto had thrown these shoes away,
00:42:35because he had one that he said he had thrown away when he went to London in July,
00:42:41a search was done on the internet and these shoes, these too,
00:42:44they do not match the trace that is in the pool of blood,
00:42:48which is the only sure trace of the murderer.
00:42:51So it's clear that this has nothing to do with reality.
00:42:54Goat, how can you remove blood stains from shoes?
00:42:59It's absolutely not possible.
00:43:01In my opinion, this is a possibility that should be excluded in the most categorical manner.
00:43:06In this case, the investigations for Italy have demonstrated that that pair of shoes
00:43:11that the material they were made of and the fact that they were particularly worn
00:43:16in fact, they made the same findings particularly favorable to retaining any particles
00:43:22with which they came into contact.
00:43:24So for me the possibility, in this specific case, of erasing traces of blood
00:43:28there is absolutely nothing on those shoes.
00:43:30Portera explains to us why Chiara Poggi's DNA on the bicycle pedals was not enough
00:43:38to condemn Alberto Stasi?
00:43:40Why only DNA was found on the bicycle pedals
00:43:44and it was not possible to understand whether that DNA could come from a trace of Chiara's blood.
00:43:50When an investigation is carried out on a biological trace
00:43:54sometimes the quantity is not so large to be able to do more tests on the DNA or on the nature
00:44:01because we still have to tell our public that doing a DNA test is one thing
00:44:05and another to do an assessment to understand what type of biological trace we have.
00:44:09In this case when you are in the laboratory you have to decide whether to go one way or the other.
00:44:15when there aren't too many traces to analyze.
00:44:19In this case the RIS probably carried out the DNA test
00:44:24which is certainly much more sensitive, we must also say this,
00:44:27DNA testing is much more sensitive than blood testing
00:44:31so the DNA was found to belong to the victim
00:44:34while blood, which has a more limited methodology,
00:44:38he could not allow it or because it was not blood
00:44:42or because it could actually have been too little and therefore gave a negative result.
00:44:46For this reason, the suspect also remained in pre-trial detention for only four days.
00:44:53and then the investigating judge on the fourth day in the absence of such strong evidence
00:44:58It was precisely the lack of blood that led to the decision to release him.
00:45:01There is certainly enough material to discuss endlessly about this case.
00:45:06Like all people, Chiara Poggi had a life and a future.
00:45:12everything that was shattered that morning by a brutal murder.
00:45:19A 26-year-old woman, a simple life in a small house in Garlasco, in the province of Pavia.
00:45:26where he lived with his family.
00:45:28A few trusted friends and the boyfriend.
00:45:32Chiara Poggi was a calm and happy girl.
00:45:35However, his life was brutally cut short on August 13, 2007.
00:45:41Chiara's mother, father and brother, when they said goodbye to her before leaving for the holidays
00:45:46They never thought that that would be the last time they would see her alive.
00:45:53Chiara was happy to have the opportunity to spend a little more time with her boyfriend Alberto
00:45:59Stasis
00:46:00a good boy, a Bocconi student.
00:46:03She had met him as a girl at the oratory and then lost sight of him.
00:46:08A few years later she met him in the library and started hanging out with him.
00:46:14Chiara had fallen in love with Alberto with the enthusiasm of all girls her age.
00:46:19a relationship that had now lasted for four years.
00:46:22Her days were divided between university, work and her nanny, as she called him.
00:46:29Chiara left everyone with the memory of a sunny and positive girl.
00:46:34Chiara was kind, sweet, sensitive and reserved.
00:46:38Always available to help others, jealous of her intimacy even with her closest friends.
00:46:44When she talked about Alberto she simply said how much she was in love with him.
00:46:49but he never went into the details of their relationship.
00:46:52She was so clear, reserved and even a little shy.
00:46:58Chiara, the pride of her mother and father, intelligent, serious, studious, always studying, until she graduated in economics at the University
00:47:08of Pavia, 110 cum laude.
00:47:10The result of a well-built life, with a bright future full of expectations.
00:47:18But now Chiara is no longer here.
00:47:20He will never have a future.
00:47:22Someone snatched it away from him.
00:47:25Someone has erased the serenity and happiness that Chiara had built with her family.
00:47:32And now mum Rita and dad Giuseppe are left with nothing but memories, photographs, and their daughter's smile imprinted on their face.
00:47:40in the mind.
00:47:41But Giuseppe and Rita continue to hope.
00:47:44Let justice be done.
00:47:46May whoever killed Chiara finally pay for what he did.
00:47:50They are convinced that the truth will come out in the end.
00:47:53May their little Chiara finally have justice and rest in peace.
00:48:03Rita Poggi, Chiara's mother, is connected with us and I thank her for accepting our invitation.
00:48:10Good evening madam, can you hear me?
00:48:11Good evening, yes, I hear you.
00:48:13Good evening, madam.
00:48:15Chiara is a victim waiting for justice.
00:48:20You, I know because I have known you for a long time, I am close to her, she knows, and also to Paolo Reale,
00:48:27Have you never lost hope of giving Chiara justice?
00:48:34You haven't lost faith in justice, I suppose?
00:48:36No, never, never, look, not even when the sentences were unfavorable.
00:48:45We have never lost hope.
00:48:48Look, it seemed impossible to me that no one understood that for Chiara it was necessary to seek the truth at all costs.
00:49:00Yes, we had to look for it, we had to look for truth and justice.
00:49:09And finally someone listened to us, the Supreme Court listened to us and understood.
00:49:18So, do the reasons behind this ruling give you another hope, madam?
00:49:22Of course, of course, yes, they give me another hope, they also give us a lot of strength to face the new process, because facing
00:49:35a trial is not a nice thing, let's say.
00:49:40It's easy. May I ask you, madam, what has given you strength all these years, you and
00:49:46to her husband?
00:49:49But the desire to find the truth for my daughter and justice for her.
00:49:59A mother or father cannot want anything else.
00:50:04And it is their duty to look for it, to keep looking until they find it.
00:50:11What do you miss most about Chiara, ma'am?
00:50:14Who knows how many times they asked him, but tonight seeing the photos of his daughter, seeing her smile again, her
00:50:22blue eyes, I want to ask him again.
00:50:24What do you miss most about her?
00:50:26Well, let's just say I miss everything.
00:50:30Of course I miss his smile, that cheerfulness he always had, that determination that despite being very simple,
00:50:46Chiara was a very simple girl, who if you saw her did not give the impression of being,
00:50:56that is, she gave the impression of being a perhaps weak girl, but in reality she was very strong, very determined.
00:51:03And her determination grew as the years passed, then she had demonstrated it during her years of study.
00:51:16Then when she was looking for a job, well, she must think that I never had to help Chiara for,
00:51:26first to study, then to look for work, but also when he wanted to go somewhere, in short,
00:51:34She was also very independent, so I miss all that.
00:51:40Madam, I send you a big hug and on behalf of all of us I want to show you with the applause of the audience,
00:51:50Linea Gialla's closeness to his family and of course to Chiara Poggi.
00:51:58I send a hug to her, to her husband and of course to Paolo Reale.
00:52:03After six years in Garlasco we returned, we returned to the Poggis,
00:52:09but we came back above all from Stasi.
00:52:12Those were the days when the reasons for the sentence were released.
00:52:18We'll show you all this soon on Linea Gialla. Stay tuned.
00:52:24You're on the hug at 7 years old. Try it and then see if it rings God's bell, you and
00:52:29him.
00:52:38Welcome back live to Linea Gialla, fellow viewers.
00:52:40Six years after Chiara Poggi's death we returned to Garlasco in the days when the reasons were released
00:52:49of the sentence.
00:52:50We tried to speak with both the Poggi family and the Stasi family.
00:52:57Here's our correspondent Martino Villozio's story. Let's hear it.
00:53:11Don't you have any relatives in this cemetery?
00:53:14No one. And I'm not going to say I went to Chiara Poggi. No.
00:53:20It's something inside us that we felt like coming.
00:53:23But why? Just to understand.
00:53:25Because you are a parent.
00:53:27On November 1st, the day of visiting the deceased, this also happens.
00:53:32More than six years after the murder of Chiara Poggi, Garlasco remains incredulous.
00:53:36No truth. A single accused.
00:53:38And the two parents, Chiara's, who protect their pain.
00:53:43Today is not the day. Today is the day to remember.
00:53:47Not to be talked about.
00:53:48We went to the cemetery, tidy up, bring the heart.
00:53:51We just got back, so I can't tell you anything.
00:53:56It hurts Giuseppe Poggi, Chiara's father, to offer himself to the cameras during the days dedicated to the remembrance of the dead.
00:54:02But fate wanted that right at the end of last week
00:54:06the reasons for the ruling with which the Court of Cassation were released
00:54:09overturned Alberto Stasi's acquittal in the second degree.
00:54:13The judges wrote: "Too many inconsistencies, omissions, underestimations."
00:54:23To condemn, one must have certainty.
00:54:26They don't have any from the beginning.
00:54:28And the investigations have been done.
00:54:32Reread all the evidence against Alberto Stasi.
00:54:35This is what the judges of the Supreme Court wrote.
00:54:40I arrived here and found that the benign one was coming out of there, what happened?
00:54:45And they told me they killed a girl.
00:54:48Because, among other things, one of the two cats had remained locked in the house.
00:54:51She's the only one who knows.
00:54:53Unfortunately, animals don't talk.
00:55:00Alberto Stasi cannot be acquitted or convicted, writes the Court of Cassation.
00:55:05The family of Alberto, acquitted in the first and second degree,
00:55:08she fell back into the nightmare just when she could see the end.
00:55:12He drinks it, he has to go.
00:55:15Mr. Stasi.
00:55:17No, don't worry, please.
00:55:18We'll see each other in ten years, but you'll pay for it.
00:55:20But Mr. Stasi, it's not by chance that...
00:55:24You choose me, come on.
00:55:26Two hands, two hands, but...
00:55:28Two hands, two hands, two hands, two hands.
00:55:29Why yes, no?
00:55:30Mr. Stasi.
00:55:31Mr. Stasi.
00:55:32He's not too ready when it comes to others.
00:55:34Try to bear what we are bearing.
00:55:37Stay on the arms for seven years.
00:55:39Try it and then see if the bell rings around you and him.
00:55:42So we are fed up, really fed up,
00:55:44that even someone as good as me can't take it anymore.
00:55:47I know that, well, because I've been here in the village a bit,
00:55:50I turned around, that you knew, you know, Chiara, etc.
00:55:54No, I'm not interested, thanks.
00:55:56The voice we heard is that of a friend of Alberto and Chiara.
00:55:59The center of gravity of Stasi's life has moved to Milan.
00:56:02Unable to contact his friends in Garlasco.
00:56:05Including Marco Panzarasa,
00:56:07Alberto's best friend at the time of the crime.
00:56:09Marco's father is the former mayor of Garlasco.
00:56:13He too is silent.
00:56:16Silence also from Maristella, Chiara's best friend,
00:56:19who lived opposite her and did not forget her,
00:56:22as his mother explains to us.
00:56:24She cries like a friend,
00:56:25a model person, an exceptional person,
00:56:28a truly golden girl,
00:56:30a fair person,
00:56:32an exceptional person,
00:56:34such a good girl.
00:56:39After the media bath six years ago,
00:56:42even the K twins are silent,
00:56:43that after the death of her cousin Chiara,
00:56:46they had exhibited in front of the villa attacked by the cameras,
00:56:49this photo, faked with her.
00:56:52Nothing to say.
00:56:53Nothing to say.
00:56:54Not even talking for a moment with Stefania Paola.
00:56:58I like it, sorry, then we'll have dinner.
00:57:00In Garlasco, despite everything,
00:57:02many still believe that for Chiara's parents and brother
00:57:05the day of truth will come,
00:57:08whatever it is.
00:57:09I owe it to them, right?
00:57:10I haven't lost a daughter, in my opinion.
00:57:12How did these motivations leave you?
00:57:14If they give you a little confidence, is that all?
00:57:17A death like this leaves a truly great mark.
00:57:22I think Garlasco is marked,
00:57:26I say no, it's marked forever.
00:57:29I think that, despite this great suffering,
00:57:34Rita and Giuseppe have truly given
00:57:37a testimony of living a pain
00:57:41with great dignity.
00:57:49So, it was Martino Villosio's service
00:57:51who is here in the studio.
00:57:52What kind of environment did you find?
00:57:54Few people willing to talk,
00:57:55Do you want to forget this story?
00:57:57Yes, let's say that the first thing that struck me was
00:58:00at the time of the crime this was normal
00:58:03of a province that had been torn apart
00:58:05from something that could not be understood,
00:58:07how it could have happened right there.
00:58:10This normality, now Garlasco is trying
00:58:12to win her back.
00:58:13The Poggi family has returned to live in the villa
00:58:16where the crime unfortunately took place.
00:58:19The Stasi family still lives, though.
00:58:22he works in Garlasco, the reaction is understandable
00:58:24Stasi's father towards me, I mean.
00:58:27So these two families are integrated into the community.
00:58:30Alberto, like many local boys there,
00:58:32lives and works in Milan.
00:58:34But on this whole community
00:58:36this lack of truth alleviates.
00:58:38it's as if every inhabitant of Garlasco
00:58:42continued to live, to play cards at the bar,
00:58:45to meet the Poggis, to meet the Stasis,
00:58:46but deep down the question was asked
00:58:49but how can a 26 year old girl die?
00:58:51this way and there still isn't a culprit.
00:58:54Let's go live to Garlasco then
00:58:57from our correspondent Viviana Guglielmi.
00:59:00Viviana, where are you?
00:59:06Yes, I'm in Garlasco, right in front of the villa
00:59:10of the Poggi family.
00:59:12She should have spoken to our microphones
00:59:15Mrs. Franca Bermani,
00:59:18Chiara Poggi's neighbor's mother,
00:59:22in short, at the last moment he didn't feel like it.
00:59:24A key witness: Mrs. Bermani
00:59:27precisely because he is present here on the morning of August 13, 2007
00:59:34and Mrs. Bermani declared that she had seen
00:59:37a black women's bicycle just parked
00:59:40here in front at 9.10 in the morning.
00:59:44We remember that Chiara Poggi turned off the house alarm
00:59:49at 9.12, perhaps to let the alleged murderer in
00:59:54which Mrs. Bermani unfortunately did not see.
00:59:59We also remember that the bicycle in question
01:00:02but it does not correspond to the two seized bicycles
01:00:05to the Stasi family.
01:00:07Now the Court of Cassation wants to return to analyze
01:00:11a third bicycle owned by the Stasi family
01:00:15and it has never been seized because it doesn't match at all
01:00:18to the description provided by the lady
01:00:22according to Marshal Marchetto.
01:00:26In short, the question remains as to where it is
01:00:29that black bicycle.
01:00:32Thanks to Viviana Guglielmi.
01:00:34So, Professor Bruno, six years later
01:00:36are we actually back to square one?
01:00:38I would say yes, in the sense that apart from the fact
01:00:42that we are trying to do, let's say as we saw before
01:00:47to ensure that all the clues that had emerged
01:00:52I'm coming a little bit, I'm horrified by the idea
01:00:57that the lack of blood is a clue
01:01:00because if anything, it should be the opposite.
01:01:03But in any case all these clues
01:01:05they will surely be clarified in the negative
01:01:08as regards the figure of Stasi.
01:01:11So the fact remains that the city is witness to
01:01:15because the city is witnessing a great fear.
01:01:18People are afraid.
01:01:19And he's scared because there's a killer like this around.
01:01:23which has not been recognized.
01:01:25So, we always use the masculine form of a murderer.
01:01:29but we are sure that if it is a male
01:01:33the bicycle was seen in a women's bicycle
01:01:36it could also be a woman.
01:01:39So the problem is
01:01:42let's investigate someone else too
01:01:44maybe after the next trial
01:01:46but let's investigate someone else
01:01:48because I'm sure
01:01:50that as far as the Stasi is concerned
01:01:53too much has been done
01:01:55and more than this cannot be done
01:01:57based on clues that are negative clues
01:02:00and if he had shoes full of blood
01:02:03I would have understood
01:02:04but since he doesn't have it
01:02:06well, it's hard to say the killer doesn't have it
01:02:09because who knows when he washed them.
01:02:11Lawyer Dizioni
01:02:12I would like to go back on the black bike
01:02:14that on this problem of clean shoes
01:02:15on clean shoes
01:02:17the mechanism is actually very simple
01:02:19Stasi told
01:02:21of having walked through that crime scene
01:02:23also the first instance sentence
01:02:25since it is impossible to cross that scene
01:02:27without getting your shoes dirty
01:02:29his shoes are clean
01:02:31evidently it's not true that he entered the house
01:02:35but he described the body
01:02:37so he obviously saw it in an earlier phase
01:02:40that is at 9, 9.30
01:02:41when the girl was killed
01:02:43on the black bicycle
01:02:45if you allow me
01:02:45in reality the Court of Cassation says something different
01:02:48we have always highlighted an objective fact
01:02:51Stasi questioned on the afternoon of August 14
01:02:55he says
01:02:56I have three bicycles at my disposal
01:02:58accidentally forgets that he has a black women's bicycle
01:03:01and it reminds me of a red folding one
01:03:03the Court of Cassation tells us
01:03:05the negative fact endowed with positive potential
01:03:09potential positivity
01:03:11as evidence of Stasi's failure to mention the bicycle
01:03:14I'll explain the concept better
01:03:16a person is asked
01:03:18how many bicycles do you have
01:03:19he says he has three
01:03:20and accidentally forgets that he has a black women's bicycle
01:03:24why does he say casually?
01:03:25well obviously it's by chance
01:03:28then the appeal ruling tells us
01:03:30he may have forgotten
01:03:31parents are heard immediately
01:03:34both remember having a black women's bicycle
01:03:36the mother remembers having it at home
01:03:39and the father at the company
01:03:41when I point out this inconsistency
01:03:43the court of assizes of appeal tells me
01:03:45Mom may have been wrong
01:03:47or they may have mis-verbalized what you said
01:03:50understands that when faced with an argument of this type
01:03:53the Court of Cassation can only reject a reasoning
01:03:56which is in itself illogical
01:03:58the objective fact remains
01:04:00that the two witnesses saw a black women's bicycle
01:04:03Stasi is a black women's bicycle
01:04:05questioned
01:04:05he didn't say he had it by chance
01:04:07I say at this point in an ironic way
01:04:09the bicycle itself is at the centre of this story
01:04:12why didn't lawyer Gerta say that?
01:04:14look, the question is not as it was formulated by lawyer Tizioni
01:04:18how many bicycles do you have
01:04:19the question was precise
01:04:21What bicycles do you have at your disposal?
01:04:23if someone asks me a question like that
01:04:25I'm talking about the bikes I normally use
01:04:27that bike was not used by Alberto Stasi
01:04:31on the bicycle element
01:04:33there is a problem with the ruling of the Court of Cassation
01:04:37which makes us understand how superficially it has been analysed
01:04:41It is said that the bicycle that was described by the neighbor
01:04:46from Bermani
01:04:48it corresponded exactly to the one that had been seen by Marshal Marchetto
01:04:52and it is said that there is indeed an unequivocal judgment on the correspondence of this bicycle
01:04:57here is the report of Marshal Marchetto
01:05:00in which he says that the bicycle did not correspond to Bermani's bicycle
01:05:05I'm truly a wedding guest on this one.
01:05:10Marshal Marchetto would have declared
01:05:13having heard from Bermani herself
01:05:16the description of the bicycle
01:05:17and he would have gone to the Stasi company
01:05:20we later discover in the Stasi defense brief
01:05:24that in reality it was Stasi's father who called him to the company
01:05:27on the morning of August 14th at 8:00
01:05:29to show him that bike
01:05:31we then discover that in the minutes
01:05:33Marshal Marchetto was not present when Bermani was telling the story
01:05:37because Bermani herself says
01:05:39there was no marshal of my country when I was heard
01:05:42so what happened?
01:05:43Marshal Marchetto
01:05:44perhaps because he will have heard this description from some comrade in arms
01:05:48he goes to the company or rather he is called to the company
01:05:51excludes the bicycle
01:05:52just because there is a detail that doesn't go back to the bin
01:05:55and then surprisingly they are seized
01:05:57a Bordeaux bicycle and a grey bicycle
01:06:00and not the black bicycle just for a small detail that doesn't add up
01:06:03doesn't lawyer Giardi agree?
01:06:05this is absolutely not the description
01:06:07the request for the acquisition of the bicycle had already been made by the lawyer Tizzoni
01:06:11there was a relationship that excluded correspondence
01:06:15Dr. Vitelli said one more thing
01:06:18since there is this relationship, let's hear from Marshal Marchetto
01:06:21we heard it
01:06:22we heard it during the adversarial trial
01:06:25this circumstance that he was not present at the deposition was clarified
01:06:29he was present but did not sign the minutes
01:06:32this is clear, it was said in the process
01:06:35it remains an objective fact
01:06:36we asked the judge
01:06:38we show this bicycle to the witnesses
01:06:40this was not even done
01:06:42we had asked to seize the VAT of Taranto
01:06:44allow me, go understand
01:06:45it was simply allowed to go and retrieve the Stasi's bicycle
01:06:49show it to the two witnesses
01:06:51to see if it matches the one they said they saw
01:06:55so this is a very easy analysis
01:06:58I also add that it is not true that Stasi did not use that bicycle
01:07:02because he himself says when asked specifically
01:07:04I often went by bike to Chiara's
01:07:06I've used that Bordeaux at least once
01:07:08evidently last time he was using the other bicycles that were at his disposal
01:07:12as is also known by other witnesses
01:07:14not the black one for women
01:07:16he never used it and never said he had it
01:07:18it has always been in the father's warehouse
01:07:20and this element is an element that creates even more problems
01:07:24as part of the reconstruction of the murder
01:07:27and in compatibility with those famous 23 minutes
01:07:30there is matter to debate
01:07:32I wanted to get tied up and I ask you for a short answer
01:07:35to what Professor Bruno said
01:07:37in conclusion
01:07:38have you ever considered the possibility that it is not stasis?
01:07:41but could it also be a woman?
01:07:45he understands the moment we ask him to analyze a hair
01:07:48we can't know what this hair is made of
01:07:50It is evident that the civil party has always sought the truth everywhere
01:07:54but when they preclude you from 360-degree investigations
01:07:59such as those of determining who has a hair
01:08:01It is clear that at this point we focus on the subject
01:08:04for which there are serious and concrete indications
01:08:08as recognized by the Court of Cassation
01:08:10it's not a question of being prejudiced against someone
01:08:12or to carry out a judicial investigation
01:08:14the speech is completely different
01:08:16the speech that we have been asking for years
01:08:18tests that were denied to us
01:08:20and that go in that direction
01:08:21and that they could go if they were allowed in other directions as well
01:08:24thanks to lawyer Rizzoni
01:08:25thanks to lawyer Giando
01:08:27he wanted to add
01:08:28if we have to go on these hypotheses of alternative paths
01:08:32then we have to and I hope that on this there is the possibility of following us
01:08:37since the time of death has been moved
01:08:39all alibis were checked on that wrong time of death
01:08:43that is, 10.30
01:08:43that the alibis of all witnesses be rechecked
01:08:47within the new time of death indicated
01:08:50which is what we have always indicated as correct
01:08:53that is, between 9 and 10
01:08:54there will certainly be something to discuss
01:08:57Sara Viola I wanted to finish with you
01:08:59a girl loved by everyone
01:09:01the fear component
01:09:04as Professor Bruno told us before
01:09:06probably
01:09:08it is possible
01:09:09it's a hypothesis
01:09:10there may still be
01:09:11a freedom killer
01:09:12but the fact remains that this girl
01:09:15this family
01:09:16the mother
01:09:16by Chiara Poggi
01:09:17we heard it
01:09:18he is waiting for justice
01:09:20I believe that
01:09:22Chiara Poggi's mother
01:09:23I don't want to
01:09:23Alberto Stasi's head
01:09:25he wants to know
01:09:26who killed his daughter
01:09:27it's another dead woman
01:09:29a woman
01:09:30of which
01:09:32we still don't know the killer
01:09:33if there is any doubt
01:09:34if Alberto Stasi
01:09:36whether guilty or not
01:09:37there is no doubt
01:09:38on the fact that
01:09:38Chiara Poggi
01:09:39instead she died
01:09:40our attention
01:09:41I think that from Alberto Stasi
01:09:43must return to the victim
01:09:44why this victim
01:09:45must have justice
01:09:46we'll talk about it
01:09:47and with these words
01:09:48by Sara Viola
01:09:49we conclude here
01:09:50we will see each other
01:09:51next Tuesday
01:09:5221 and 10
01:09:53on the 7th
01:09:54thanks to the team
01:09:55on the yellow line
01:09:55and thanks to you
01:09:56Good night
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