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Joseph Hoyt joined the GBAG Nation to share his takeaways from the Dallas Cowboys’ rookie minicamp. Hoyt analyzed how Caleb Downs and Jaishawn Barham fit into Christian Parker’s defensive teaching, broke down which prospects could provide immediate depth, and more.
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00:00Dallas Morning News joins us now here in the nation, and a good afternoon, Joseph. How the heck are you?
00:06I'm doing well, fellas, but I wish you would have told me where you guys were at,
00:09because I would have loved to do a little Mexican food and some margaritas after work, of course.
00:13But it sounds like a great time.
00:15Yeah, well, we got four hours remaining in this show, Joe,
00:19so we would love to see you and talk even more Cowboys with you.
00:22Of course, the big news coming out of the weekend is the rookie minicamp.
00:26What was the biggest takeaway from that 48-hour experience for you?
00:32Yeah, I think the biggest thing was just kind of seeing a lot of these rookies, you know,
00:36in the Cowboys kind of ether.
00:37You know, I think one thing that people, you know, say across the NFL
00:40is you don't really know what you have until you have them in their building.
00:43And I think in terms of, like, Caleb Downs, for example,
00:45that's a guy that lived up to everything so far, obviously, as early on, as advertised, though.
00:50You know, I think, you know, we kind of wrote about it right after the draft,
00:52but this is a guy that prepared for college defenses when he was a high school recruit
00:57going to visit these different schools.
00:59He did the same thing in the transfer portal.
01:01Before the draft, he did it with five to six NFL teams, including the Eagles,
01:05you know, and the chance that he ended up with the Cowboys.
01:07Obviously, that worked out.
01:08And this is a guy that Devin Moore said that Caleb Downs has the playbook down already.
01:12And it was kind of implementing it and going through install with it.
01:15I think that might have been the most impressive thing,
01:17is that Caleb Downs, with high expectations
01:19and obviously without a lot of on-field work,
01:22the mental side kind of lived up to what we expected.
01:24It seems like Christian Parker, as a coach,
01:28really gets onto the field and is teaching individual techniques,
01:33you know, quite a bit more than I've been used to with defensive coordinators.
01:38What have you seen on that topic?
01:41Yeah, no doubt.
01:42I think one of the things that, you know,
01:44I talked to Zach Bond at the Pro Bowl about
01:46was how Christian Parker worked with him specifically, right?
01:50And yeah, we think of Christian Parker as this corner developer,
01:53the secondary guru,
01:54but he said he was doing so much with the linebackers as well.
01:57And you saw that in action.
01:58Yeah, he was working with Caleb Downs.
02:00Yeah, he was working with Devin Moore,
02:02but he was working with Jay Sean Barham too,
02:04really, you know, purposefully on little details.
02:08You know, and that's the guy that was compared to Zach Bond
02:10by the Cowboys front office
02:12in terms of how they might utilize him.
02:14And so I think that that was cool to see with Christian Parker
02:16was just how hands-on he was
02:18with not only the corners in Caleb Downs,
02:20but also some of those linebackers as well.
02:22All right, so you brought up Jay Sean Barham.
02:25How were you feeling during your interaction with him
02:28when you asked him,
02:28did you ever run an Oklahoma drill?
02:30And he looks you dead in the eyes and says,
02:32we can do one right now.
02:33And I know you have that warrior competitive spirit about you, Joe.
02:36Have you gotten back in the weight room?
02:38Were you preparing to make this happen in Oxmart?
02:41Oh, yeah, you know, I did some combine workouts.
02:43I'm ready to roll.
02:44No, it was funny because I said, yeah, let's do it.
02:48I'm ready to go.
02:49And I was kind of expecting like a ha-ha, you know, LOL.
02:52That's kind of funny, right?
02:53Jay Sean had this stone-cold face of like, no, I'm serious.
02:57Like, let's wrap up and go.
02:58And I think, honestly,
02:59it could have been anyone asking that question
03:01or anyone even kind of flirting with the idea
03:04of going up against him.
03:04This is a guy that's physical.
03:06He's serious.
03:07And I'll tell you what,
03:08he is everything of the 6'5", 6'4", 245 pounds that he's listed at.
03:13I don't think the Cowboys have had a linebacker on the inside this big
03:16in quite some time.
03:17You know, he –
03:18and to kind of get a little bit of insight into his psyche,
03:21he compared himself for –
03:22he said he wanted to be like three different linebackers,
03:25Ray Lewis, Aziz Alshair, and Fred Warner.
03:28Fred Warner is more of an admiration for him,
03:31but he wants to be.
03:32He says that he's a hard-hitter,
03:34take-your-head-off kind of guy like Aziz Alshair right now.
03:37So I don't know if I do want to be on the receiving end of that,
03:39if we're being completely honest.
03:40He's violent, man.
03:41He really, really is.
03:43Where everybody was kind of what you got to see lined up,
03:46what they were doing with some of these guys,
03:47did anything stand out to you
03:49of maybe where they were working position group-wise?
03:52I think one of the interesting things was Drew Sheldon working at guard.
03:55And obviously they're kind of in the distance,
03:57if you're familiar with the Cowboys practice,
03:59how the offensive line is the farthest away
04:01from Cowboys media.
04:02But the fact that they're kind of putting him there, too,
04:04to work a little bit, I thought was interesting.
04:07You know, the way that they talk about him
04:08from an athletic standpoint,
04:10this is someone that makes me think
04:11that could be a developmental Terrence Steele replacement
04:14at right tackle specifically down the line.
04:16But I think the fact that they use him at guard
04:18and they'll probably do the same at training camp
04:20is kind of interesting as well.
04:22And then Devin Moore's height is something
04:23that stuck out to me, too.
04:25I'm wondering how, you know, in a versatile secondary,
04:27what they really see from him.
04:29Is he only an outside boundary corner?
04:30Or can he do multiple things?
04:32I think that that's something that piqued my interest, too.
04:34Hey, Joe, I have a question.
04:36After watching these clips of things that happened
04:38in the war room,
04:40do you have a better feeling of, like,
04:43Steven Jones and how they operate?
04:45You know, like him basically telling everybody
04:47to shut the hell up, you know,
04:49and how calmly he handled that?
04:51Because I've been in that situation, too,
04:54where you're down on the clock.
04:55But it seemed like the trades he made,
04:58you know, just kind of,
04:59I think it painted Steven Jones
05:01in a little bit of a better light
05:02for Cowboy fans, you think?
05:05Yeah, no doubt.
05:05I agree with you, Brian.
05:06And I think it was interesting to just see
05:08kind of the handle that they had
05:10in moments of intense, you know,
05:13intensity, I guess you could say.
05:15Because, you know,
05:15they'd obviously done the groundwork
05:16and laid things with the Eagles
05:18in terms of potential trade partners.
05:20And I think the fact that they
05:22offered Miami first,
05:23a fifth rounder,
05:24kind of early on the clock,
05:25said, oh, you know,
05:25hey, it didn't go well.
05:27And then as the clock ticked
05:28and they had the idea
05:29that someone might jump ahead of them
05:30to take Caleb Downs
05:31and what heartbreak that could have,
05:33you know, Brian Schottenheimer
05:34had that list.
05:35I think just the ability
05:36to look at the board and say,
05:37hey, here's how many points
05:38it would take to get up.
05:39Let's offer another fifth.
05:40Let's go over the top and do this
05:41just to secure our guy,
05:42even if there's only 10 seconds remaining.
05:44Because I think you can look at that
05:45and also say, hey,
05:46you know, maybe they gave up too much
05:47just to move up one spot
05:48when they were 10 seconds away
05:49from getting Caleb Downs anyways.
05:51But if they're sitting there
05:52and Caleb Downs gets taken
05:53by someone else
05:54who made that trade
05:54within 10 seconds,
05:55I think we're talking
05:56a little bit different
05:57about that Dallas Cowboys
05:58first round.
06:00Might have had a Stephen Jones
06:01behind the scenes crash out there.
06:04Maybe a little bit.
06:05Yeah, you know,
06:05I mean, I thought it was fascinating.
06:07He looked like a, you know,
06:08a draft day movie
06:09kind of scene playing out.
06:11I thought it was pretty impressive
06:12and some good
06:13behind the scenes stuff for sure.
06:14He was smooth.
06:15He was in control
06:16and he was nice.
06:17He was nice to people.
06:18So it was a good look
06:19for Stephen Jones.
06:20Do you think if he did have,
06:22if there was a dramatic moment
06:24or a bad moment,
06:26the NFL would show that?
06:28Or do you think that
06:29the teams sort of have
06:30some editorial authority
06:33when it comes to that stuff, Brian?
06:35Joe?
06:36I would guess.
06:37Yeah.
06:38Yeah, it was to me.
06:40Yeah, when, you know,
06:41when you've got the New York,
06:43the trade table saying,
06:45they got to make a pick.
06:47You know, I mean,
06:47that's what they were.
06:48They were going to let them
06:50screw up.
06:52You know, I mean,
06:53Dallas had to follow through
06:54and they were able
06:54to get it through.
06:55So, yeah,
06:56I think that part of it is,
06:58you know,
06:59the parts that you don't see.
07:00But, yeah,
07:01Dallas was able to kind of rally
07:02after all that
07:03and just get the pick in
07:05when they needed to.
07:06You think they got so excited
07:07and locked in on the trade
07:09that they almost forgot
07:10to turn that pick in?
07:11I don't.
07:11I think Steven immediately,
07:13he learned from the
07:14Roy Williams trade
07:15that we did in 03
07:16or that draft.
07:17I think it was in 03
07:19where it, like,
07:20we were on the clock
07:21and Chris Hall goes,
07:23did someone turn the trade in?
07:25Yeah.
07:25And Steven Jones went,
07:26oh, my God.
07:27And so I think he learned from that.
07:28But, Joe,
07:29I'm sorry to interrupt you there, sir.
07:31Yeah, no doubt.
07:32I think that it was a pretty
07:34calculated,
07:34calculated,
07:35just well-done effort
07:36by Steven Jones
07:37and the Cowboys
07:37to get that pick in,
07:39to know the trade,
07:40to know the circumstances,
07:41and to kind of operate.
07:42He was quarterbacking, honestly.
07:43I think that that's probably
07:44the best way to say
07:45what Steven Jones
07:46was doing almost,
07:46you know,
07:47doing audibles
07:47at the line of scrimmage.
07:48But to your point,
07:49yeah,
07:50if things didn't go as well,
07:52I don't know,
07:53maybe if you have
07:54the type of intense
07:55behind-the-scenes information
07:56that we got from that.
07:57Interesting.
07:58It's Joseph Hoyt,
07:59Dallas Morning News here.
08:00You guys have been asking
08:01some great questions
08:02of the leadership
08:04about linebacker,
08:05and I just wonder
08:07if at this point
08:08it's sort of starting
08:09to look like
08:09they're going to play
08:10the summer out
08:11and see what they have
08:11in camp and preseason
08:13and then maybe make a decision
08:14because it just doesn't seem
08:15like there's much urgency
08:16to do something else.
08:19No,
08:19not at all,
08:20and I think that
08:21those are the type
08:22of questions that come
08:23when you're talking
08:23about projection
08:24versus placement,
08:25right?
08:25You know,
08:26you're not just placing
08:26a typical green dot linebacker
08:29in and saying,
08:30okay,
08:30this is a guy
08:30that's done it before,
08:31let's do it.
08:31But ironically,
08:32a guy that's done it before,
08:33they did add,
08:34in Curtis Robinson,
08:35who did it next to
08:36Dee Winters last year
08:37in San Francisco,
08:38one of three guys
08:39that did it.
08:39So I do think
08:40if you're looking
08:41at who might do it,
08:42part of me thinks
08:43Dee Winters will get
08:44the first crack,
08:45you know,
08:45being next to Fred Warner,
08:47having Curtis Robinson
08:48to guide him,
08:49you know,
08:49as a potential
08:50veteran asset there
08:51now in the Cowboys
08:52locker room.
08:53But, you know,
08:54Shotties also brought up
08:55Jalen Thompson
08:55as someone who could do it.
08:57DeMarvion Overshawn
08:58has obviously been working
08:58with Scott Simons
08:59longer than anyone now
09:00on this Cowboys roster.
09:02And then,
09:03you know,
09:03I know they ruled it out
09:04initially,
09:05but if Caleb Downs
09:06is this savant IQ,
09:07and I know he's going
09:08to have shifts
09:08and motion checks
09:10to kind of handle
09:10on his own
09:11in the secondary,
09:12but if he's this savant
09:13and can do what he's doing,
09:14I wouldn't rule it out,
09:15honestly.
09:16Joseph,
09:17one thing that kind of
09:18stood out to me
09:18was the Cowboys
09:19did come away
09:20with this draft
09:20without taking
09:21a running back.
09:22Now,
09:22they did sign
09:23a free agent,
09:24and then they brought in
09:25Barry Switzer's
09:26grandson as well,
09:27but what do you think
09:28about the depth
09:30behind Javante Williams,
09:31and was that kind
09:31of a sign that maybe
09:32they are really high
09:33on Jaden Blue
09:34and Phil Moffa?
09:37Yeah,
09:37I think Phil Moffa
09:38specifically.
09:38I think that they
09:39almost look at Phil Moffa
09:40as a 2026 draft pick,
09:42right?
09:42And obviously,
09:42he got in at the end
09:43of last season,
09:44but this is someone
09:45that they loved,
09:46and you know,
09:46when you kind of get
09:47the IR designation
09:49right before the 53-man cut,
09:51they,
09:51I think it's kind of telling
09:52about what they think
09:53about you and how
09:54they don't want you
09:54to end up in the
09:55free agent market,
09:56right?
09:57And I think there
09:57might have been
09:58some suitors out there,
09:59so I think it's not
09:59only a compliment
10:00specifically to Phil Moffa,
10:02I think it's also a testament
10:03to what they think
10:03about Malik Davis.
10:05What Malik Davis did
10:06last year was not easy,
10:08right?
10:08To be,
10:08to go from being cut,
10:10you know,
10:10and then coming late
10:12into training camp,
10:13and then,
10:13you know,
10:13being a practice squad guy,
10:15settling in as the
10:16backup personal protector,
10:17and then popping off
10:18some big runs
10:19when you're called upon,
10:20I think that impressed
10:21a lot of people
10:21in the building.
10:23Joseph Hoyt,
10:23Morning News here.
10:24How much Navajo
10:25Nation history
10:26are we making here
10:27with Mr. Pete?
10:30Yeah,
10:30I mean,
10:30he's the first one
10:31to have a crack
10:32at the NFL,
10:32and,
10:32you know,
10:33I had to do some
10:34research just to make
10:35sure,
10:35because there's been
10:35plenty of Native
10:36American athletes,
10:38you know,
10:38in professional football,
10:40but in terms of the
10:41Navajo Nation specifically,
10:42this is something big,
10:43and I'll tell you what,
10:45I don't know if you guys
10:45watched the interview,
10:46and fans,
10:46I don't know.
10:47Yeah,
10:47it was awesome.
10:48Go back and watch it,
10:49man.
10:49He is incredible.
10:52Wise.
10:53Light,
10:53nice,
10:53and very wise.
10:55And I'll tell you what,
10:56I mean,
10:56this is a guy that was
10:57a preferred walk-on
10:58at 6'8",
10:59you know,
11:00coming out of a small
11:01school in New Mexico,
11:02went to New Mexico State,
11:03earned his stripes,
11:03and then became a really
11:05sought-after guy in the
11:05portal who started 11 games,
11:07or 12 games of left tackle
11:08in the SEC.
11:09Like,
11:09I don't know if this is
11:10someone just to write off
11:11for being nice and a good
11:12story.
11:13I'm very,
11:14very curious to see what he
11:15does when training
11:16camp does roll around.
11:17Does it seem like they're
11:19prospecting or churning
11:20tackles and trying to find
11:22the next class of guys
11:24more so than usual?
11:27I think so,
11:28and without,
11:28you know,
11:29devoting the resources
11:30they usually do,
11:31right?
11:31Like,
11:31they usually,
11:32if you look at recent
11:33passes,
11:34first-round pick here,
11:35first-round pick,
11:35first-round pick,
11:36and yet they still are
11:37entering the season with
11:38a major,
11:39major question mark at
11:39left tackle specifically.
11:41You know,
11:42I don't think that we're
11:42going to be talking about
11:43Drew Shelton or
11:44Shiaz Pete as potential
11:46left tackle replacements,
11:47right?
11:47But I think that they
11:48want some competition
11:49there.
11:50It kind of comes with
11:51the territory when
11:51Tyler Guyton hasn't been
11:53consistently on the field
11:54or hasn't been consistent
11:55when he's been on the
11:55field as well.
11:57I think that this year
11:58when they weren't going
11:59to devote resources to it,
12:00you might as well get
12:01some intriguing guys,
12:02and I think with Drew
12:03Sheldon and his
12:03athleticism specifically,
12:05maybe working with
12:06Clayton Adams and what
12:07they could do,
12:08I think that that's
12:08something to keep an
12:09eye on down the road
12:10when that need becomes
12:11a little bit more
12:12pressing.
12:13How is the George
12:14Pickens story evolving
12:16as it was reported
12:17over the weekend
12:18that his agency
12:19was attempting
12:20to find a trade
12:22partner and somebody
12:23willing to give him
12:23a bigger contract?
12:26Yeah,
12:26I think that that was
12:27just natural,
12:28especially when the
12:28non-exclusive tag was
12:29applied to him.
12:30I mean,
12:31when it comes to
12:32Pickens,
12:32I think it's pretty
12:33clear, right?
12:34Like,
12:34there's a floor now
12:36with what he's going
12:36to get,
12:37you know,
12:37by signing the
12:38franchise tag,
12:39but there was
12:40admiration by his
12:41side to get a lot
12:43more than that.
12:44The gap between
12:44what he wanted
12:45and what he's going
12:46to get on his
12:47tender is vast.
12:49So,
12:49I do think that
12:50whenever that happens,
12:51you have inherent
12:52questions about just
12:54what his future is
12:55going to be here.
12:56I've been kind of
12:57saying it,
12:57you know,
12:57from the beginning,
12:58I think the logical
12:59route is he plays
13:00his tender out,
13:00and then that might
13:02be the last year
13:02with George Pickens
13:03based on the cost
13:04that could go up
13:04if he does really,
13:05really well next year.
13:07So,
13:07I think we're going
13:08to kind of see
13:08what happens.
13:10The next turning
13:11point date is going
13:12to be June 16th
13:14when mandatory camp
13:15starts,
13:15and we'll see
13:16what happens.
13:17Gut feel,
13:17Joe.
13:18Caleb Downs,
13:19will he be repping
13:19the number two?
13:22I think so.
13:24On a gut feel
13:25basis,
13:25they've been too
13:26coy about it.
13:28You know,
13:29I think Kobe
13:30Durant,
13:31you know,
13:31I think there might
13:32be some negotiations
13:32probably going back
13:33there.
13:34I mean,
13:34obviously Brian
13:34Schottenheimer
13:35said as much,
13:36I'll tell you
13:37what,
13:37he looks good
13:37in two.
13:38It's a good
13:39number for him.
13:40We know what
13:40it looks like.
13:41It hasn't stopped
13:42jersey sales,
13:43though,
13:43knowing that he's
13:45potentially 18
13:45or number one
13:46or number two.
13:47Like,
13:48that has not
13:48changed a thing.
13:49Obviously,
13:50he's the number
13:50one jersey seller
13:51among rookies
13:51right now,
13:52and if that two
13:53were to be the case,
13:54I think that those
13:54numbers would only
13:55skyrocket.
13:57Well,
13:57you're the man,
13:57Joe.
13:58We'd love to see
13:58you over here
13:59at Mexican Bar
13:59Company,
14:00but if not,
14:01we'll see you
14:01soon.
14:03Yeah,
14:03I might have
14:04to bring the
14:04corgi over
14:05and get it.
14:07Please do.
14:08That would be
14:09amazing.
14:09I'll pet that up.
14:10Would love to meet
14:11the corgi.
14:12There he is,
14:12Joseph Hoyt.
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