00:00It's Dave Hellman here with you on The Fan, and a good afternoon, sir.
00:03How the heck are you?
00:06I'm wonderful, guys. Good to be on. What's up?
00:08Well, you know, I think the question here going into the rest of this summer
00:13is how much better have the Cowboys made themselves?
00:15Some of your peers, you know, in the national football scene
00:21are going kind of all in and saying they could see the Cowboys
00:25playing on conference championship Sunday.
00:27Could you go that far right now?
00:30I don't think I could go that far.
00:32Actually, it's funny timing.
00:33We just had a conversation about this on our podcast,
00:36which will be out tomorrow, where we were just assessing each team's offseason.
00:40And, look, there's no denying that the Cowboys have made themselves
00:44a hell of a lot better.
00:46Like, in totality, understanding that they traded away
00:49one of the best players in the NFL,
00:51you've got to be happy with where they are coming out of the draft,
00:55having completely overhauled their defense,
00:58completely overhauled their secondary,
01:00you feel good about the picks they made,
01:02you feel really good about Caleb Downs.
01:04The free agency additions maybe aren't game-changing players,
01:08but guys that should give you a much higher floor on defense.
01:12And, obviously, Dallas doesn't need a great defense for that offense
01:16to take it in some really fun directions.
01:19I just said this on our podcast, though.
01:21I think upon closer examination,
01:25there are still some things that give you pause,
01:28like the linebacker room, the edge situation,
01:31how good is the pass rush going to be coming off the edge,
01:35the depth at cornerback probably isn't as great as you want it to be.
01:38So, I still think this is a fairly flawed team,
01:42but absolutely a team that should have playoff aspirations,
01:46which, you know, for where this team has been the last year or so,
01:50I think that's fine.
01:52I don't know if I could get all the way to conference championship weekend,
01:56though.
01:56That feels like a hell of a dramatic jump for one year.
01:59The very measured Dave Hellman with us here in the G-Bag Nation.
02:03You mentioned the edge rushing group.
02:05You mentioned the linebackers.
02:06If I told you you could have Bobby Wagner today or Vaughn Miller today
02:09to soup up the Cowboys' defense a little bit, who are you going with?
02:14I mean, if those are my options, I think I would take Vaughn Miller.
02:20And, to be honest, I'd have to go back and watch what Vaughn did for Washington.
02:24I'm not intimately familiar right now, but I just think of it in terms of, like,
02:30see ball, get ball.
02:31And, like, if you're signing Vaughn Miller in 2026,
02:34you're probably doing it to play situational, like, obvious passing down,
02:38go get the quarterback type of stuff.
02:40And I think Vaughn Miller can still do that in a limited role.
02:44I think Bobby Wagner could still be a useful NFL player,
02:47but he's just a far cry from what you think of when you think of Bobby Wagner
02:53at this point.
02:54And I don't know if you're getting the same amount of bang for Buck.
02:59A, because he's going to play way more snaps,
03:01and there's way more potential for him to be put in disadvantageous situations
03:05where I think you could probably still find a way to maximize
03:10what Vaughn Miller has left in the tank.
03:13So, if those were my choices, I would go with the edge rusher.
03:17I was blown away to see that Vaughn Miller still had nine sacks last year.
03:20I was like, what?
03:21He had nine sacks?
03:22I mean, I felt like he was kind of not discussed much.
03:26Well, I mean, that Washington defense got beat to hell.
03:29They had several guys go down for the year,
03:32and obviously Dan Quinn took over play-calling duties.
03:36I mean, they were just kind of a mess.
03:37Not to take credit away from Vaughn Miller,
03:39but I don't think their blueprint for the season went according to the plan,
03:45and I would guess Vaughn Miller played an even larger role
03:49than they were already expecting him to.
03:50But that's kind of my point.
03:51I mean, the Commanders were a bad team and a bad defense,
03:54but Vaughn Miller can still give you that kind of juice where,
03:57especially on a good team where he can rotate with other qualified guys,
04:03yeah, I think Vaughn Miller could still give you plenty in that sort of role,
04:07and you would be able to take him on and off the field situationally.
04:11So, David, you guys kind of kick around the off-seasons for every team.
04:16I asked this to the fellas yesterday.
04:17When you look at the NFC East,
04:20is this the division that maybe improved the most talent-wise among the four teams
04:25with the Giants, what they did in the draft,
04:27also adding Isaiah Likely,
04:29the Commanders they attack with Owe and Chase on,
04:33Chennault at linebacker,
04:35the Eagles trade for Grenard.
04:36I mean, it does seem like this division you can maybe make the case
04:41has improved the most in the entire league.
04:45That's a really good question.
04:46I'd have to really go through and think about it.
04:50I mean, just sort of off the top of my head,
04:55I mean, you think about the Bengals trading for Dexter Lawrence,
04:59the Ravens added Trey Hendrickson,
05:02the Browns made 1,800 draft picks this year.
05:06The AFC North comes to my mind for sure.
05:11Probably the NFC South as well,
05:14just because Carolina and New Orleans in particular
05:16really kind of seem like they geared up.
05:18But I don't think you're wrong, though.
05:20I think the NFC East is a really good answer.
05:23Obviously, we know what Dallas did.
05:26The Eagles are always going to be aggressive
05:28in pushing for competitiveness.
05:32And then, I mean, the Giants, just by virtue of the fact that,
05:36A, they spent a ton of money for John Harbaugh in his first year,
05:39and they wound up with two top 10 picks.
05:42Obviously, they're going to wind up adding a boatload of talent.
05:44And my gosh, yeah, I mean, I think the Commanders gave out
05:47like $175 million in guarantees this year.
05:50So, yeah, without like diving deep into it,
05:54I think that is probably the right answer.
05:56Is Dave Hellman with you here on the fan from The Athletic?
06:00Are we anticipating A.J. Brown for sure leaving post-June 1?
06:05And what do we make of the Eagles here?
06:08I don't know if they're going to hang on and, you know,
06:10be just as good, or if this last year was the beginning of the end.
06:17I mean, that's such a weird situation with A.J.,
06:20and we brought that up on our show, too,
06:22where I was like, you know,
06:25there's nothing forcing the Eagles to do this
06:27other than just obviously the fact that they want to
06:30and the fact that they've made all these moves to insure themselves.
06:33It just seems to indicate that the relationship with A.J. Brown
06:36is at a point where everybody thinks they're best served by moving on.
06:40I just, I don't think you're a better team without A.J. Brown on your roster.
06:45Like, I think even if Mekhi Lemon is a really good player
06:48and even if you get something out of Don Tavion Wicks and Hollywood Brown,
06:53I'd be shocked if the Eagles are as good of a team
06:56without A.J. Brown as they were with them.
06:59That said, I still think they're a plenty good team.
07:01I think they are the most complete roster in the NFC East.
07:06It's probably not, probably not the juggernaut that they have,
07:11certainly that they were in 2024, but even last year,
07:14I don't know if they're overall as deep of a roster,
07:18but the trade for Jonathan Grenard is just, I mean,
07:21that's how good teams stay good,
07:23using your comp picks to trade for a guy with 25 sacks
07:25when he's been healthy over the last couple of years.
07:28Rick Wollin was a really nice signing when three agencies were done.
07:32So I still think really highly of the Eagles.
07:36I think the gap between them and the Cowboys is closer than it was,
07:40but I think the Eagles are absolutely still a team
07:44that's going to be in the mix to win the division
07:47and hopefully for them do more than they did last year.
07:49What do you think about what Shottie has cooking?
07:52Last week, I guess it was, or was that early this week,
07:54Steve Sarkeesian says Shottie's one of the top three coaches he talks to.
08:00Does Shottie have something cooking here, you think?
08:03I said this on our show too, and you guys know this as well as I do.
08:08I think when ownership is as intermingled in the day-to-day decision-making process
08:14as the Cowboys are, I don't think you're completely in charge of the culture
08:19in the building as a head coach.
08:21Like the culture to some degree is always going to stem from the Jones family,
08:26but I think Shottie is doing his damnedest to make his mark on the culture
08:32in the Cowboys building, and that's my own observation from the outside,
08:37but that's also what I've heard from people that I still talk to inside the building.
08:42I really, the highest phrase I can give Shottie is his hiring process
08:47has just sort of made you sit up and take notice.
08:50I mean, I love the Clayton Adams hire last year, and I love the Christian Parker hire this year.
08:56And these are not things that I think in hindsight.
09:00Like I was, you know, my coworker was in on Christian Parker
09:04and gave me the rundown on Christian Parker and what he's about as a coach
09:08and a scheme guy well, well before the Cowboys were ever talking to him.
09:12And what Clayton Adams did in Arizona was on the league-wide radar
09:16well before he ever landed in Dallas.
09:18So the fact that Shottie is able to identify and bring those sorts of guys into the building,
09:24I think is an incredibly good sign.
09:27And I think if you look around like the national landscape,
09:31you know, it was easy to think of Shottie as a bit of a punchline,
09:36the way he got hired and his track record and his resume.
09:39But I think over the last year plus,
09:42you're starting to see people come around on what he's doing there.
09:45And I think he overall has a pretty good reputation for, you know,
09:52considering how he got here and everything like that.
09:54I think people are taking notice of what he's doing there.
09:57And, yeah, I do think he's got something cooking in Dallas.
10:00I've been pretty impressed so far.
10:02Do you get excited about the schedule release?
10:04What do you look for when this thing drops?
10:07I think the schedule release is the stupidest thing in the NFL.
10:11I just, I can't believe we have to turn it into a week-long event
10:16to announce games that we already know.
10:19I mean, it's very useful for me as somebody who works in the industry.
10:23It's just, it's easier to plan your life when you know which games are when.
10:28And you're like, okay, this game is on Thursday night.
10:31That means that I might have a longer weekend and maybe I can get away
10:34and go have a little bit of a vacation and see my wife for a change.
10:39Like, that type of stuff.
10:40But that's not interesting to fans.
10:42I don't expect anybody to care about that.
10:44And so, no, I think it's absolutely ridiculous.
10:48Like, the NFL is so unsatisfied by having everyone's attention
10:5311 months out of the year that we've got to turn the schedule release into.
10:56I feel like if you want to do a one-day show, that's fine.
11:00But we're at the point now where we announce one game on Monday
11:04and we announce another game on Tuesday
11:06and we announce the international games on Wednesday.
11:08I think it's the stupidest thing in the world.
11:10But I am very excited to know when the games are happening.
11:14I just, I don't get why it couldn't be an email, to be honest with you.
11:18I'm 100% with you, but there's something in me
11:20that still appreciates the free content.
11:22You know, the NFL knows how to do it.
11:25I mean, they are clearly skilled at it.
11:28I don't want to take that credit away from them.
11:31They are very good at turning stupid things into content.
11:36But sometimes I just want to say, like, hey, when is enough enough?
11:40Like, surely the content machine doesn't need to be fed 365 days a year.
11:46But I know the NFL would turn right back around and say, you're wrong.
11:49It does.
11:50So, here we are.
11:51Dave Hellman, The Athletic Football Show.
11:53So, hell of a job as always, man.
11:54Thank you so much, and have a great week.
11:58Anytime, y'all.
11:59Talk to you next time.
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