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00:00Free win to give the Sabres a 3-1 series lead, heading home for Game 5 tomorrow night.
00:06I am the Bulldog.
00:07Glad to welcome back on the Western Hotline.
00:09Our buddy Joe Yurden covers the NHL and the Sabres for Bleacher Report.
00:15Joe, what's going on on this beautiful Monday?
00:18Oh, it's still recovering after driving back to Buffalo after yesterday's game.
00:25Quite a weekend in Boston, I've got to say.
00:28All right.
00:28Well, are there details I need to know about off the air, or is there more you can tell our
00:33audience now?
00:34Because you've whetted their appetite, I think.
00:37Well, no, it was just like, I don't know, it had been years since I'd been in Boston.
00:44And it was nice to be back there and seeing the Garden again and getting to watch a couple of
00:53playoff games,
00:53which have been quite a few years since I've done that in Boston, too.
00:56I covered a couple of Stanley Cup finals there.
01:00But, yeah, the first time doing this with covering the Sabres, and boy, oh, boy.
01:06I've got to tell you, it was something else, seeing the fans turning out, Sabres fans turning out.
01:11I know, in Boston, Joe.
01:14Like, I feel like, I mean, it's a long time since they've been in the playoffs, all right?
01:17So, I mean, I know.
01:19I just, I did not expect.
01:21I mean, you see shots, you know, any away game, usually, they're going to find on MSG,
01:26like this couple of Sabres fans or whatever.
01:29I was really surprised, pleasantly, by what seemed like a pretty right big turnout of Sabres fans in that building.
01:37Yeah.
01:39Well, it gets to 4-0 in game four, and we started hearing the Swayman chants coming from the upper
01:45reaches.
01:46You know, I'm down, like, our seat in the press hall, which is way upstairs, we were down in, like,
01:52the lower right corner, basically.
01:55But I could hear it coming from to the left of me, you know, in the upstairs levels that I'm
02:00looking at.
02:01It was one of those things where, like, the old college hockey instinct went off on me to look for
02:06a visitor's section,
02:07you know, just to see an entire section of people in blue and gold.
02:10And I didn't see it, and it was just scattering, you know, scattered blue and gold jerseys throughout there.
02:16And, you know, the Let's Go Buffalo chants started up real big in the third period after it gets to
02:226-0.
02:23And I'm just kind of like, I was like, did everybody just, like, move together because everybody else left and
02:27headed for the bars?
02:28You know, the game gets out of hand like that.
02:30I mean, it was an impressive turnout.
02:33It was really something.
02:34And then, you know, the players saluting the fans that were there after the game on road ices.
02:40It was something else.
02:41That is a move.
02:41Yeah, for sure.
02:43So, Joe, to my ears here, I mean, I know what Marco Sturm said before the series began.
02:48You know, we're the bigger, more physical team.
02:51And, you know, that's how we're going to play.
02:53And, like, it's all gamesmanship, I think, probably trying to keep the officials off them for, you know, touchy fouls,
03:00you know, interference-type fouls or whatever.
03:02But to my ears here, it feels like the Bruins are doing all of the complaining.
03:08Oh, you're too near my goalie.
03:11It's so weird to see these roles the way that they are with the Sabres.
03:16They're sort of just being capable of dominating the Bruins the way they did, certainly on the scoreboard, if not
03:22to some extent in this series, physically, too.
03:25I feel like maybe the Bruins thought they were going to be able to push the Sabres around, and they
03:29were wrong.
03:30Yeah, I think there was definitely part of the mindset for Boston was, you know, we're going to be able
03:36to intimidate these guys, and we're going to be able to push them around.
03:39Because, you know, you look at the Sabres lineup, and you don't see a guy that sticks out and says,
03:45like, keep your head on a swivel when this guy's on the ice, because he's got to, you know, he
03:49could really ruin your day.
03:51You know, you do that with Boston.
03:52You know, there's a few guys that could do that.
03:54You know, Janot is one of them.
03:55Zdorov's certainly another one.
03:57Kastelich is another one.
03:58Like, they've got some guys that are, you don't want to end up in the corner alone, you know, digging
04:04out a puck and then, you know, get caught with your head down, any of that kind of stuff.
04:08They certainly have that, but, you know, Buffalo doesn't.
04:11But Buffalo's got guys that will take a look at it and keep on ticking and find ways to get
04:17payback when it's time.
04:20And I think that's kind of where the frustration comes in for Boston is that, you know, they are laying
04:26hips.
04:26They are being physical.
04:27I mean, you know, McAvoy spent the first, what, two games of the series here in Buffalo hunting Peyton Krebs
04:34and trying to ruin his day.
04:35And, you know, it didn't really work.
04:37Krebs just rolls off of that.
04:38He's like, all right, man, cool.
04:39Like, that's how I want to play.
04:41Great.
04:43But Boston just, you know, they're kind of waiting.
04:46I don't know if they're waiting for Buffalo guys to wilt or to, you know, to kind of bail out
04:51on plays and give them puck, but that stuff isn't happening.
04:54And instead, Buffalo just keeps coming back over and over and over again.
04:58And Boston's kind of gotten into that spot now where they're like, geez, these guys don't stop.
05:03This is getting annoying.
05:05And it showed through.
05:07You know, the midway point of game three and then the entirety of game four was just like, oh, my
05:11God, these guys don't quit.
05:13And it's really throwing us off.
05:15Yeah, not only do they not stop, Joe, it seems like as the series has gone on, I mean, maybe
05:21this is just, you know, obvious and reactionary because of how yesterday went.
05:25But maybe, you know, the coaches and the game plans and the Sabres have gotten in and they found, like,
05:30this is the thing that's going to work for us.
05:33Let's concentrate on that.
05:35And maybe the Bruins just don't have a pivot now.
05:38Yeah.
05:38And I think there's part of that with the way the Bruins pressure up the ice because they – something
05:47they were able to really do in game one and more so in game – I mean, game two was
05:51a lot of, you know, home run flips out of the zone and, oops, we caught somebody napping.
05:55And, you know, they've got a guy in behind.
05:58Whereas game one, there was, you know, there were odd man chances and, you know, they had rushes like that.
06:04And I was just kind of, well, where is this coming from?
06:06And I think the Sabres have figured out, like, how to counter that or how to diffuse the way that
06:14they attack on the forecheck or how they're setting up in the neutral zone by doing something different.
06:20And I think that's kind of where, you know, the medicine has come in.
06:26And because they figured that out, Boston's kind of like, wait, we didn't have a plan B here.
06:30Uh-oh.
06:31And that's where you're seeing the waves coming.
06:34And they're pushing – you know, their own pressure is getting a little bit more up the ice and, like,
06:39kind of hemming them into their own end.
06:40You know, if they try to set up behind the net to get an escape, guys are right there.
06:45And in game four, we saw them kind of get frustrated and get – you know, lose their patience with
06:50trying to wait it out.
06:51And they were – I was comparing this to tank-era Sabres where, you know, they would win a faceoff
06:56in their own end.
06:57And they're like, okay, our answer is to hammer this off the glass and try to get it out.
07:01And Sabres guys were just picking it off the wall.
07:04And, oops, we're right back to it again.
07:06And, you know, the cycle starts, the shots start coming.
07:09And, you know, maybe you catch somebody out of position, which they did a couple of times.
07:13That kind of thing, I mean, you know, I don't know if that's just the case of the Bruins not,
07:17you know, not putting in the work or not wanting to do the work.
07:19But I think watching that back on tape is going to get Marco Sturm just, like, shaking his head because,
07:25you know, watching elite skilled defensemen just saying, like, well, forget it.
07:30Let me just bang it off the glass and out instead of trying to find another way to get out
07:35of your own zone is the kind of thing that is going to make every coach crazy.
07:38Yeah, you know, Joe, I'm really glad we've – this conversation is wound to this juncture here.
07:45Joe Yurden, by the way, Bleacher Report covering this series in the NHL.
07:49On the Western Hotline.
07:51Because the first two games, I know before game three, we talked – I don't want to say a lot,
07:56but it certainly was something I wanted to mention more than once, was, like, a lot of Boston's offense was
08:03just – you're talking about off the glass, because we're going to trip the wire.
08:07It was just sort of, like, passes out of their zone that turned into odd man rushes and breakaways.
08:14And I wondered, like, tactically, what do the Sabres need to do to take that away?
08:18Hey, maybe they've found a way to take that away, and the Bruins just don't have another thing.
08:23And that's a pretty flimsy game plan to begin with.
08:26You know, like, I mean, if it works, great.
08:29And it did.
08:30It got them an inordinate number of breakaways in the first two games of the series played in Buffalo.
08:35I thought, breaks and odd man rushes.
08:37But those kind of dried up in games three and four.
08:40And I wonder what the Sabres did to their structure, maybe, to take that away.
08:45Yeah.
08:45Yeah, it's – I mean, it's something that I think people who are a little bit better with tape and
08:49a little bit wiser about the game are probably a lot better at figuring out than myself.
08:54I don't want to speak for you, but –
08:55No, no, I'm with you.
08:56I would need to talk to my kid, maybe.
08:58He could –
08:58Okay.
09:00I'll bend Owens' ear tomorrow then about it.
09:03But, I mean, I watch – you know, I think of the last regular season game against Boston,
09:09where it seemed like David Pasternak was just getting behind everybody constantly, and I think it was Pasternak reading how,
09:15you know,
09:16Buffalo would, you know, send a defenseman in on the attack, and then you got – you know, you've got
09:20one guy definitely minding the shop in the – you know, defensively,
09:24and then you were relying on a forward to kind of circle back to make sure you got two guys
09:28back.
09:29And Pasternak would have – would end up seeing that and be like, okay, let me just scoot out to
09:33the neutral zone if I see our guys near the puck,
09:35because if they bang it out and gone, I'm either – I've either got a breakaway or a one-on
09:40-one, and I, you know, Pasternak's, you know, got a really good chance of scoring that, you know, one way
09:45or the other,
09:46or getting help on the way down the ice, and, you know, you've got an odd man situation.
09:50Boston, I know – I mean, Grant, you're down 4-0, so you're trying everything you can.
09:55They were trying to do that with their other lines.
09:58It wasn't just Pasternak doing it.
09:59You know, you're seeing other guys – and, you know, Arvidsson goes out of the game, so that – you
10:03know, you lose another offensive, you know, minded forward there.
10:06But you're looking at them trying to see maybe – well, maybe some of these other lines aren't paying attention
10:13to this.
10:14And, no, that was not the case.
10:15The Sabres are like, no, they're going to try to do this stuff, and we're on top of it.
10:19Now, I don't know if that means, you know, staggering out how your defense minds things, you know, your forward
10:24coverage if the defense jumps into the play.
10:26Whatever. We're getting way into the weeds on the ultra, you know, scientific stuff of this for systems.
10:34But it is something where that stuff was there for Boston a lot in the first two games, and it
10:40has been not – it disappeared basically after Arvidsson's penalty shot in game three,
10:48where it just stopped happening completely.
10:50Either Boston stopped trying to do it, or Buffalo has completely cut that possibility out for them to attack that
10:57way.
10:57So, Joe, you were in the building for this game yesterday, obviously.
11:01Did you happen to notice – I had one Bruin – I couldn't – I wasn't sure, actually, and I
11:06don't remember, and I'm not being able to find it now.
11:08Whether it was a fan account or a media account that was asserting that Swayman pulled himself out of this
11:16game last – the afternoon.
11:18Because it wasn't right after the sixth goal.
11:21The times don't line up.
11:22The sixth goal happens, and then there's another, like, 30 seconds of game, I think, and then a TV timeout.
11:28And we come back from the TV timeout.
11:30There is Corpus Allo in the net.
11:33And this account was saying that Swayman just skated over the bench during the TV timeout and talked to Corpus
11:39Allo,
11:39who then started putting his gear on.
11:41So, like, I don't know if that is – I don't know if Sturm has been asked about that.
11:45I've not seen that he was.
11:47And maybe this is just some whack job fan account, and I'm getting had.
11:50I don't know.
11:51But either way, we all saw him drawing at his bench on his way out, which, you know, justified, sure.
11:57But to hear him then this morning talking about we win and lose as a team is pretty rich.
12:02He's yelling at them on the way out.
12:04Again, justified, but still have a hard time listening to we win and lose as a team after you're yelling
12:10at everybody as you're leaving the game.
12:12Maybe by your own choice.
12:13Did you witness any of that?
12:16I was – well, after they didn't pull him after 4-0.
12:21And after Byram scores that goal – now, granted, Swayman completely lost track of where the puck was on that
12:27goal.
12:28You know, because the puck got – you know, the Sabres won the faceoff.
12:31They swing it around on the outside.
12:33And I don't know how Swayman didn't see it get over to Byram as, you know, I don't think they
12:39did it at light speed.
12:41But by the time it was over on Byram and on his stick, Swayman looked over and was like, uh
12:46-oh.
12:46And then, you know, he tries to do a Superman dive to try to stop it.
12:49He got his left pad caught on his defenseman's skate is what happened there.
12:54I think he was – but it was a bad read.
12:56He was down in a butterfly waiting for a shot as that pass was going.
13:01I don't know that he didn't see it, but when he tried to slide over, his left pad got caught
13:06and he got sort of stuck there.
13:08And that's how he ended up diving for it because that – yeah, that net was open for Byram for
13:12– it felt like an hour.
13:14Yeah, it really was because, you know, because I watch it on Byram's stick.
13:18I'm like, all right, man, shoot it.
13:20Because I'm looking at open net from my seat.
13:23I'm like, okay, any time now.
13:26But maybe he saw it on power stick and thought like, okay, he's probably just going to throw it in
13:33here because this guy's, you know, parked in front of the net with a tip, whatever.
13:37But after that goal, he kind of like stood there and was looking towards the Bruins bench.
13:45And I don't know if he was maybe barking at his defenseman in that case or to his – you
13:50know, just barking at them like, hey, let's pick it up here.
13:53Like, I'm getting embarrassed out here.
13:56Right, right.
13:58But he was looking to them like to say like, well, any time you want to get the hook out,
14:02I'm good with that because this is stupid.
14:05And, you know, they played a really good second period.
14:07So you're thinking like, all right.
14:09And that second period, I'm thinking Boston gets the next goal.
14:12This game gets really tight really quick.
14:14Even at 4-1, you know, 4-0, you're saying, oh, next goal wins.
14:18But, yeah, it was like – and then, yeah, but I did not see him signal towards the bench to
14:24say like, all right, that's enough.
14:26All I know is that I looked up at one moment.
14:29He was in the net.
14:29I looked over when play restarted from the timeout, and I see 70 in the net.
14:33I'm like, oh, well, all right, that's that.
14:35Yeah.
14:36So, and, you know, like I said, I'm, you know, 500 feet away.
14:39So anything that was going on at that end of the ice, I – kind of out of my eyes.
14:45Well, I wonder what happened there if he did.
14:47I have a feeling if he actually had just decided he was taking himself out, we'd have heard and read
14:52more about it by now.
14:53So I might have gotten – I might have got by some, you know, Bruin whack job account.
14:58Joe Yurden, Bleacher Report, covering the Sabres and Bruin series in the NHL with us here on the West Her
15:04Hotline.
15:05So from here, I mean, do you think the Bruins have, like, the desperation, you know, nothing to lose effort
15:16in them?
15:17Or, I don't know, man, they looked pretty cooked to me by the time this game was over.
15:23You know, it's easy to get fooled by a blowout, I think.
15:27But I think of the way multiple times this season where the Bruins would lose a handful of games in
15:34a row
15:35and look like one of the worst teams in hockey doing it, and you're like, well, that's it for these
15:40guys.
15:40We'll see you later.
15:41Only to watch them rattle off, you know, five, six, seven wins in a row, and you're like, oh, right,
15:46these guys can be nasty.
15:47Got it.
15:50I listened to what Lindy Ruff says today about, you know, teams being in that spot and being desperate.
15:57And he mentioned, you know, it's a team that's, you know, they get down during the year,
16:01and then they just come right back at you.
16:03And they can be, you know, they can be a very difficult team to get a grip on.
16:10And I look at how nasty and mean they can play, and I think of them as like a cornered
16:17animal that's injured.
16:19And that's the most dangerous, you know, you're trying to get a handle on them, and it's like, all right,
16:24buddy, let's go home now.
16:26And they're not going to go home without, you know, taking a chunk out of you before they do it.
16:31I look at the Bruins as being like that style of team where they've had the kind of hardships the
16:40Sabres have had.
16:41Granted, you know, not with the kind of history, but they've faced up to that sort of thing throughout the
16:48season
16:48and have found ways to bounce back from it.
16:50So I've said it about them when people are ready to say, like, the Bruins, you know,
16:55run of being a continual playoff team is dead and everybody's ready to celebrate only to see them come right
17:01back
17:01and then they're in the playoff.
17:03They're not dead until you double tap them.
17:06You've got to double tap them.
17:08Make sure they're out cold and gone before you start celebrating their departure
17:13because they will come back and get you every single time.
17:16Okay, noted.
17:17So we learned today that a couple of players who left the game early,
17:23and I think Lindy said after the game yesterday that Zucker and Kozak both could have returned.
17:29So I guess we expect they're probable, I guess, is how Lindy said it.
17:33And he also said that Norris is possible tomorrow, that he's feeling much better.
17:38What do I want to do there?
17:40Because I might have to fight somebody if they want to take Oslin off that line with Donan Benson.
17:47So, um, I, it, trying to parse playoff injury speak from a coach is, uh, is, is, is fun.
17:57The fun's a word.
17:58Sure.
17:59Yes.
18:00Um, I mean, he says that about Kozak and Zucker yesterday and I, I missed what happened with Zucker,
18:06but Kozak, I watched what happened with him.
18:08Yeah.
18:08That looked nasty.
18:10Yeah.
18:10He got wiped out after taking a shot and then went, you know, when sliding, you know,
18:15back first into the boards and I watched them kind of skate gimpy to the bench and you looked
18:20at by the trainers and he was kind of eyeing his side and his back, you know, on the bench
18:25before he went to the room.
18:26But, um, that's uncomfortable, no doubt.
18:28But, um, I trying to parse between that and figure out, like, I hear probable for both
18:35guys.
18:35And then it's like, well, maybe Morris will play too.
18:37And it's like, wait a second.
18:38Okay.
18:39I'm thinking one of the, one of the two guys that left game four early might not be able
18:46to go.
18:46And then maybe Norris slides in, in that spot.
18:49And then you kind of juggle the lineup somehow that way.
18:54And, you know, you know, can I kind of finagle things around?
18:58There's, there's a few different combinations I've got in my head of how that might work.
19:02I don't know that we're going to get it solved with a morning skate.
19:05Probably not.
19:06Yeah.
19:06Probably not, but it would be kind of cool if we did.
19:10But, um, but yeah, playoffs.
19:12Yeah.
19:12Insert new mystery of, uh, with the lineup.
19:15Yeah.
19:15It'd be really great.
19:15It's like, they just put Norris in between Malenstine and Greenway at the morning.
19:20Say like, oh, I guess that's where Norris is going in, which gets an odd fit.
19:23Um, but I think it's, I think it's called for, like, I, I don't, do you agree?
19:28I don't want to move Oslin out of that line.
19:30I think Norris probably played the second two periods of game two with this injury that I
19:38suspect is a head injury.
19:39Um, so I mean, it, that mitigates his lack of production and his performance being down
19:46to some extent, but Oslin with Benson and Doan has been electric city, man.
19:52Um, yeah, it's, I mean, when those three were together earlier this season, it was a lot
19:57of fun and seeing them back together in the post season has been, again, super fun because
20:03Oslin is just, there's a different kind of offensive creativity that he's got where it's
20:09a little bit more unpredictable.
20:11I think not to say that Norris's game is predictable.
20:14It's not, but I think Oslin likes to do kind of funkier stuff with the puck and the way he
20:19thinks the game and like, he'll see a pass that he's just kind of like, let's see if
20:23this works.
20:23And then it's on the tape and it's a great day.
20:26And, you know, whereas, you know, Norris, Norris can really shoot it and really hammer
20:30it, which works with, you know, if, if, you know, with Benson and Doan, if you're throwing
20:34it at the net, those guys can clean up the mess.
20:36Um, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it, it's a nice problem to have.
20:42It's a total first world problem for, for Lindy to deal with.
20:45It's, you know, if these guys are all good to go, but, uh, but it's, man, it's really
20:50hard, really hard to break that lineup considering how they've played with them together.
20:55Yeah.
20:56Um, you know, and I think Lindy's enough of, I don't think it's superstition, but it's
21:00like, okay, this is working.
21:02We're going to stick with this.
21:03And I, I think that's, that's probably where, where the strategy might come in there.
21:09If, if everybody's good to go, I think he might stick with that.
21:11And then, yeah, maybe, maybe you got Norris between Greenway and Malenstein.
21:14That's a, that's a nice problem to have because Norris is pretty good defensively.
21:19I mean, he's not, you know, he doesn't get a lot of the credit, but he's really good at
21:22it.
21:23And if he can kind of give Greenway and Malenstein a little bit of a spark while helping out
21:28defensively, that's not bad.
21:32I, I agree.
21:33And, and like lions net until further notice, right?
21:37That's, that's where we're at.
21:38Yeah.
21:39I think it's the, uh, ride until he bucks you or maybe shows some cracks and you say, all
21:45right, we'll go get back in there and we'll, we'll do it.
21:47I, people get very, this is such a different goalie set up than like any other team does
21:52it where you switch a goalie in the playoffs.
21:55It's like, oh boy, they're, they're toast.
21:57They're scrambling that's that these guys have done it all season long and it's not
22:01a, it's not a pressure point.
22:02It's not a, it's not a controversy point.
22:05It's just kind of like, oh, well, it's his turn now.
22:06Okay.
22:06Off we go.
22:07It just works.
22:08And yeah, I, I'm sure it's, it's a big adjustment for, for all of us that are used to, okay,
22:14one goalie gets you here.
22:15One goalie is going to take you.
22:17And if you change, if you change horses midstream, you're toast.
22:20Like it's not how this works for this team.
22:22It has an all season, Joe, thank you so much for your time.
22:27I'm glad you made it back from Boston and look forward to visiting with you.
22:31I don't know, maybe in a few weeks when the Sabres are in the conference finals.
22:36Wouldn't that be something?
22:37How's that?
22:37How's that?
22:38How's that settle on everybody?
22:40All right.
22:40Seriously, Joe, thanks, man.
22:42Really appreciate the time.
22:43Yeah, you got it, Bulldog.
22:44Thanks.
22:44That is Joe Yurden, Bleacher Report, covering the Sabres and Bruins series and the NHL at
22:50large for many years now and a nice touch base with Joe.
22:55What do you think, man?
22:56Is this team done?
22:57The Bruins toast?
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