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00:00He covers the NBA for ESPN.
00:03He's based in Chicago, covers a lot of the Midwest teams.
00:06That includes ours.
00:07He's in town for Game 2 tonight.
00:09He's Jamal Collier.
00:10Jamal, thank you very much for being with us.
00:12We appreciate your time.
00:13Thanks for having me, guys.
00:15So tonight, it's Game 2.
00:18Can the Raptors do anything significantly different?
00:21They shot the ball well.
00:22They did a lot of things well.
00:24That gives them a huge edge tonight.
00:26What do you think?
00:26Because somebody has to adjust, and you would think it has to be Toronto.
00:31Yeah, that kind of was my takeaway coming from Game 1 is, you know,
00:36providing the up-in-the-air status for Emmanuel quickly.
00:38And he did get on the floor to practice in between the games here on Sunday,
00:44but still questionable and unsure if he'll be on the floor.
00:48You know, the easiest thing is, you know, Brandon Ingram.
00:50Obviously, he had the nine shots, one shot in the second half.
00:53They're going to look for ways to get him more involved.
00:56But it's one of those where there's a fine line to balance there
00:59because Brandon Ingram shooting more mid-range jumpers,
01:03even though he's effective at it,
01:04isn't always going to just be a naked recipe for success.
01:08I think that that went about as well as it could for Cleveland.
01:11If they play at that level,
01:13I actually don't think that there's really much that Toronto can do to get up
01:16and match it,
01:17especially when they're missing a kind of a key guard
01:20and a key component of their offense like quickly.
01:23Yeah, Jamal, I thought the most damning thing about Saturday
01:27was just the fact that you got a pretty solid three-point shooting game
01:32from Toronto,
01:32who obviously as a group isn't the most three-point shooting effective team.
01:39And, you know, they shot over 50% for most of the game
01:41and then finished at like 48%,
01:43and they still lost by double digits.
01:46And so, I don't know,
01:47I felt like that sort of painted a pretty ominous picture
01:50on their side of things
01:51for the direction that the series is headed.
01:54And I think the one thing for them
01:56is obviously getting out in transition,
01:58a fast break, right?
01:59And the Cavs,
01:59it was a big emphasis for them coming into it
02:02to sort of slow down
02:04what Toronto could do in transition.
02:06You know, Kenny talked about how,
02:08even thinking about last year in the Indiana series,
02:09and how that was such a wake-up call,
02:12the way that they kind of overwhelmed the Cavs.
02:15And, you know,
02:16that's maybe the one thing
02:17that Toronto can also point to
02:19and say we really did not get out and run.
02:21And that starts with the fact
02:23that they were taking the ball out of the basket
02:24for the most part.
02:25Like Cleveland shot the ball pretty well
02:27and especially like, you know,
02:28had a lot of stuff in the paint
02:30and looked at the basket.
02:32So, you know,
02:34small things,
02:35I'm sure if Toronto can find a way
02:37to speed up the game,
02:38find a way to sort of get some more easy buckets
02:40in transition,
02:42they can make it a little bit more competitive.
02:44But, you know,
02:46I had picked a five-game series coming in
02:49and then, you know,
02:50kind of leading into it,
02:51it's funny to,
02:52there's so many scars
02:54around this Cavs team
02:55that you had just some people in the arena
02:56or like arena workers
02:57that are like,
02:58I don't know,
02:59we could be in for a long series.
03:01But I think that that was,
03:03this was the biggest blueprint
03:05to why I think the Cavs,
03:07just on talent alone,
03:10you know,
03:10it's such a,
03:11just an overwhelming matchup
03:12for the Raptors.
03:13Jamal Collier joining us from ESPN.
03:15With that said,
03:16Jamal,
03:16do you like the Cavs
03:17as a playoff team
03:19with a chance to go deep
03:20better with James Harden
03:21or better with Darius Garland?
03:24Look, you know,
03:25Harden has got his faults
03:26and has got his obviously
03:27playoff demons
03:28that, you know,
03:30he'll have to sort of exercise
03:31for this team
03:32to really make a deep run.
03:33But the,
03:34the way,
03:35you know,
03:36even talking to guys
03:37in the lead up to it,
03:38as far as Harden's,
03:39you know,
03:40the leadership that he's kind of
03:41started to show
03:42around these guys,
03:43like he's been,
03:44you know,
03:44players have spoke,
03:45talk about how in film sessions
03:47and practices and such,
03:48like Harden's been one
03:49of the more vocal guys,
03:50even after the game,
03:51you know,
03:52they win a game one
03:52pretty handily.
03:53And he was like,
03:54look,
03:54I don't think we played that well,
03:55you know,
03:56and still sort of pressing the guys
03:57to be better.
03:59I love
04:00the pure point guard
04:02version of James Harden
04:03that we've gotten to see
04:04this year
04:05in the last,
04:05you know,
04:06maybe,
04:06you know,
04:06year or two.
04:08That's just such a contrast
04:09to the guy we watched
04:10in Houston for so long
04:12that was,
04:12you know,
04:13filling up the score sheet
04:14it felt like first
04:15and thus passing
04:16was secondary.
04:17When he is sort of focused
04:19on this like old school
04:20traditional point guard role,
04:22you know,
04:22there's not really
04:23that many guys
04:24in the league
04:25that could really
04:26hold a candle to him,
04:27right?
04:27Like he's one of the best
04:28at that pure setup.
04:30You could just see it
04:31right away.
04:31I think those first
04:32three or four plays
04:33that it was like
04:34all Jared Allen
04:35getting involved
04:36and just like stuff
04:37like that where,
04:38you know,
04:39Donovan's got a lot
04:39of strength
04:40with that kind of
04:40playmaking ability.
04:42having that burden
04:44ease off of him
04:45and letting Harden
04:46take the ownership
04:47of that
04:47of getting the bigs
04:48involved,
04:49making sure three-point
04:49shooters are involved.
04:51Like I really think
04:52that the fit
04:53in that ideal version
04:54of Harden,
04:55if they can continue
04:56to get that
04:57round after round
04:58and night after night,
04:59I think it's like
05:00the best usage of him
05:01and the best fit
05:02for this team
05:03to sort of,
05:04you know,
05:04make a long,
05:05deep playoff stretch.
05:07So I'd have to go
05:08Harden right now.
05:08I think it's a risky
05:10move, obviously,
05:11trading 10 years
05:12of age
05:13from 26 to 36,
05:15but as far as
05:16this team
05:17and right now
05:18playoff run,
05:18I think that Harden
05:20is kind of just
05:20the perfect fit.
05:22Jamal,
05:22we know locally
05:23there's just kind of
05:25this dark cloud
05:27that hangs over the Cavs
05:28when it comes to
05:29how they're viewed
05:30and there's kind of
05:32this label of them
05:32being a soft team
05:34and I think a lot
05:35of this just extends
05:36from Jared Allen's
05:38comments from
05:39several years ago
05:40in that Knicks series
05:41where he talked about
05:41the lights being too bright
05:42and it's just kind of
05:44applied universally
05:45year over year.
05:47Nationally,
05:48does it still feel like
05:49that is how the Cavs
05:51are viewed
05:52across the NBA landscape
05:54that other teams
05:54don't necessarily
05:55look at the Cavs
05:56and think,
05:57oh,
05:57they're a real threat
05:58or do you think
05:59the addition of Harden
06:00and the moves
06:01they made at the deadline
06:01have changed that
06:03a little bit
06:03and then we saw that
06:04in game one?
06:05Yeah,
06:06I think that there's
06:07respect for the Cavs
06:08and the talent
06:08that they have.
06:09If people look up
06:10and down the roster
06:11with Donovan,
06:12Harden,
06:13the bigs,
06:13the coaching,
06:15the shooting,
06:15people know this is
06:16a super talented team
06:19and I think there's
06:21a high respect
06:22around the league
06:22for the fact that
06:24they just have
06:25kind of all the pieces
06:26that you see
06:27in a traditional contender.
06:30as far as
06:31the physicality
06:33and softness,
06:33I think the one
06:34even going back
06:35to the Indiana series,
06:36there is a sense
06:37of being able
06:38to punch first,
06:39of putting the Cavs
06:40on their heels
06:41and sort of
06:43dictating
06:44the pace
06:45or the physicality
06:46or whatever that,
06:46whatever your game is
06:48and sort of getting
06:49the Cavs
06:49off of their stance.
06:52I think that that's
06:53maybe the big narrative
06:54that the Cavs
06:55are looking to change
06:55this year
06:56and you've heard
06:56Kenny be really
06:57intentional about it
06:58in the lead-up
06:59to this series
07:00and even after game one.
07:01It's like we have
07:01to swing first.
07:03We have to sort of
07:04be intentional
07:05about setting the tone
07:06in a way that I really
07:07just think they were not
07:08last year.
07:09I mean,
07:09I was at that Cavs
07:10Pacers series last year
07:11and it was apparent
07:13from quarter one,
07:14minute one,
07:15that Indiana had a,
07:17you know,
07:18its pace
07:18and it dictated everything
07:20and the Cavs
07:21were put on their heels
07:22from minute one.
07:24You know,
07:25again,
07:25we saw this last year
07:26even in the Miami series
07:27for the Cavs.
07:27They had a very good
07:28first round
07:29and weren't able
07:29to sustain it
07:30so they've still
07:31got a long way to go
07:32but I do think
07:33that this game one
07:34and the way
07:34they've been talking
07:35about it
07:35is at least
07:36an indicator
07:36that they know,
07:38you know,
07:38even if Detroit
07:39is the next round
07:40or the Knicks
07:41and Boston,
07:41like those are teams
07:42that have an identity
07:44and a play style
07:45that they're going
07:46to try to impose
07:47on a series
07:47and on a game
07:48and for Cleveland,
07:50they've got to sort
07:50of figure out
07:51how to counter that,
07:52how to balance that
07:53and how to sort of
07:54just really set
07:55the terms of engagement
07:56in a way that I think
07:57that they haven't been good
07:58about the last few years
07:59even dating back
08:00to those Jared Allen comments.
08:02Jamal Collier
08:03joining us from ESPN.
08:05You can read his work
08:06at ESPN.com,
08:07follow him on Twitter
08:08at Jamal Collier
08:10and it's J-A-M-A-L-C-O-L-L-I-E-R.
08:14The Eastern Conference
08:15to me, Jamal,
08:16this year,
08:17the top four teams
08:18in the playoffs,
08:19the teams with the first
08:21on home court advantage
08:22seem to be the teams
08:23to beat,
08:24which makes you think,
08:25boy,
08:26those Orlando Magic
08:27did a nice job
08:27in Detroit yesterday.
08:29Are the Pistons,
08:30are they susceptible
08:31to a major upset
08:32there or down the road?
08:34Because I think
08:36there's not a whole lot
08:37of separation
08:37between the top four teams
08:38in the East.
08:40Yeah.
08:41Some alarm bells
08:42are ringing for me
08:44after that Pistons game one.
08:45And look,
08:46you know,
08:47overreacting to game one
08:48is probably my favorite thing
08:49about the NBA playoffs.
08:51You see one thing
08:52and we're just like,
08:53oh my God,
08:53this series is over
08:54and it's changed everything.
08:56So, you know,
08:57reserve judgment
08:57still on the Pistons
08:59in this series.
08:59I think Orlando
09:00played super,
09:01super well
09:02about as well as they
09:03played over these
09:03past two games,
09:04including that play
09:05in against Charlotte
09:06where Detroit's
09:07been sitting around
09:07waiting around
09:08for an opponent.
09:09Really hadn't had
09:09a meaningful game,
09:10you know,
09:11in the last like
09:11three weeks or so
09:12for that team.
09:15But I do think
09:15that it did show
09:16all the warts
09:17that you kind of
09:18expected for Detroit
09:20showed up right away.
09:21You know,
09:22offensively,
09:23how could they create
09:24consistent scoring
09:25outside of Cade?
09:27You know,
09:28they got a lot of guys
09:29sort of their,
09:30their end of their bench guys
09:31when you,
09:32you look at,
09:33you know,
09:34the,
09:35the,
09:35it didn't feel like
09:36they were searching
09:37for the combos
09:37of who to play
09:38and who to go to
09:39down the stretch.
09:40All of a sudden
09:40Tobias Harris
09:41was a little bit
09:42overextended
09:43as really their
09:43like second
09:44or third score.
09:46And I think that,
09:47you know,
09:47it really pays
09:48for Cleveland
09:49at least.
09:50They're going
09:50to be favored.
09:51You know,
09:51Detroit already was,
09:53you know,
09:53according to most
09:53of the fan duel
09:54you see in bet,
09:56Detroit was really
09:56the fourth favorite team
09:59to,
10:00of course,
10:00an odds
10:01to come out
10:01of the East.
10:02So I think that
10:03that has been
10:03an appropriate adjustment
10:04that the Cavs
10:05would be favored
10:06in that series
10:07despite what
10:07the seeding say.
10:10But I'm with you
10:11in that this,
10:12this was as far
10:14as the Cavs
10:14goes sliding
10:15to that fourth seed
10:15is about as kind
10:16of where you want
10:17to be because
10:18you're going
10:18to have a Detroit
10:18team.
10:19You're going
10:19to be more
10:19experienced than
10:20you've got
10:21probably more
10:22just like talent
10:23pound for pound.
10:25And the big thing
10:26I think in that series
10:27that both teams
10:27continue to advance
10:28is going to be
10:29just like we said
10:30before,
10:31who's able to
10:31sort of dictate
10:32the terms of
10:33engagement here.
10:33Is Detroit going
10:34to make it a very
10:35ugly,
10:35physical,
10:37muck it up offense
10:38kind of game?
10:39Or will the Cavs
10:40be able to sort
10:40of get into
10:41their flow?
10:41They're still
10:42going to play
10:42a little slower
10:42with James Harden
10:43at the helm,
10:45but be able
10:45to sort of
10:48really bend
10:48Detroit to their
10:49will I think
10:50will be the
10:50big difference
10:51if those two
10:52teams are able
10:52to advance.
10:53But if you're
10:54Cleveland right now
10:55you've got to be
10:55thinking you're
10:56sitting pretty pretty
10:57because you have
10:58got a pretty
10:58favorable first round
10:59matchup with
11:00Toronto and Detroit
11:01is a pretty
11:01vulnerable one seed
11:02and all of a sudden
11:03your pass to the
11:04conference finals
11:05looks pretty clean.
11:06This might be a
11:07hard question to
11:08answer Jamal
11:09because we can't
11:11get answers to
11:13these types of
11:14things in a
11:15short period of
11:16time.
11:16It's kind of
11:16something you have
11:17to reevaluate
11:17years later.
11:18We were talking
11:19earlier in the
11:19show about just
11:20how James Harden
11:22played on Saturday
11:23was kind of the
11:24reasoning.
11:25It gave you
11:26proof of concept
11:28as to why the
11:29Cavs made the
11:30trade that they
11:30made,
11:31especially on the
11:32heels of the
11:34Darius Garland
11:34comments last
11:35week where he
11:36was talking
11:36about still
11:36not really
11:37being healthy
11:37and how the
11:38offseason helped
11:39kind of get
11:39back to figuring
11:41out what's going
11:41on with his
11:42toe.
11:43What is the
11:44outcome that
11:46maybe validates
11:47the Cavs
11:48swinging the
11:49trade that they
11:49made?
11:49Because as you
11:50mentioned,
11:50the 10-year
11:51difference is a
11:52legitimate thing.
11:55I've been thinking
11:55about this even
11:56before with the
11:57Cavs and it's
11:58like,
11:58is there a
11:59world where
12:00this team does
12:01not make the
12:01finals that this
12:02could be a
12:02successful season?
12:05I don't know
12:05the answer to
12:06that.
12:06I don't know
12:07of a competitive
12:08conference finals
12:10seven-game loss
12:11will leave a
12:12bitter,
12:12you know,
12:12still lose a
12:13bitter taste.
12:13Real quick,
12:14Jamal,
12:14I'll say this,
12:15Jamal,
12:15sorry to cut you
12:15off.
12:16I was just
12:16going to add,
12:16like,
12:17I think locally,
12:19I think people
12:21see the trade and
12:22say,
12:22yeah,
12:22you pushed all
12:23the chips in the
12:23center of the
12:23table,
12:24so finals should
12:24be in the
12:25picture.
12:26But I think
12:26what you just
12:27said,
12:27like,
12:28a competitive
12:29seven-game series
12:30with the Celtics
12:31or something in the
12:32Eastern Conference
12:32Finals,
12:33I think there's
12:34a lot of Cavs
12:34fans at least
12:35that will walk
12:36away feeling good
12:37about that,
12:37but I'm with you
12:38where,
12:38like,
12:39the goal is,
12:40when you make
12:41that trade,
12:42the goal is finals.
12:43Yeah.
12:43And it's finals
12:44now,
12:45right?
12:45Like,
12:45it's not,
12:46it's,
12:47you know,
12:47again,
12:47you just gotta
12:48shorten your
12:48window,
12:49you know,
12:50that even if you
12:50had Garland and
12:51you got that far,
12:52you can at least
12:53say,
12:53okay,
12:53we still have a
12:54couple more cracks
12:55at it or such,
12:56we're hardened,
12:57you know,
12:57just again,
12:58my guy was 36
12:59and the window is
13:00so much shorter
13:01and the sense
13:02of urgency is so
13:03much higher.
13:04And I think,
13:04you know,
13:05it's a difficult
13:06question,
13:06like you said,
13:07to know exactly
13:08what it looks like
13:09until you see
13:09the end of it,
13:10but it does feel
13:12like that trade
13:13does have to result
13:14in a finals
13:16appearance for
13:17ultimately to be
13:18worth it,
13:18to have just
13:19traded away
13:20four or five
13:21or six years
13:22off your
13:22contention window,
13:24you know,
13:25for Harden.
13:26But I don't know.
13:27I think you have
13:28to just,
13:28I have to see it
13:29at the end of it
13:29to really evaluate it,
13:31but right now
13:32it feels like
13:32if it's not
13:33the finals,
13:33there will still
13:34be some second
13:34guessers of
13:35was this the
13:36right move?
13:37Jamal,
13:38great to have
13:38you with us
13:38today.
13:39Enjoy your time
13:40here in town
13:41and we look
13:41forward to your
13:42coverage of game
13:42two tonight.
13:43It's going to be
13:44a fun playoff
13:44running,
13:45guys.
13:45Thanks a lot.
13:45Hope so.
13:46Jamal Collier
13:47from ESPN
13:48joining us on
13:48the Make It Right
13:49Call Kyle
13:50Right hotline.
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