Un caso giuridico che non ha precedenti in Italia: il Dottor Alessandro Bernaroli, emiliano, aitante giovanotto, funzionario di banca, dopo tre anni di matrimonio, si è sottoposto a intervento chirurgico e ha cambiato sesso. E' diventato la Signora Bernaroli e dal Tribunale di Bologna ha ottenuto la rettifica anagrafica del nome da Alessandro ad Alessandra. Rettifica che però ha comportato l'automatico scioglimento del vincolo matrimoniale.
#StorieMaledette #FrancaLeosini #Leosiners #Femminicidio #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime #Lucarelliracconta #BluNotte #CarloLucarelli #ColdCase #Crime #TrueCrime #Giallo #CronacaNera #CronacaItaliana #BluNotte #CarloLucarelli #MisteriItaliani #Lucarelliracconta #Blu #Notte #Carlo #Lucarelli #Racconto #Racconti #Giallo #Gialli #Noir #Thriller #Crime #TrueCrime #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Nera #CronacaItaliana #Crimini #Criminali #CasiIrrisolti #Misteri #Mistero #Documentari #DocITA #CrimeDoc #Indagine #Giallo #Omicidio #Delitto #Delitti #Assassino #Killer #SerialKiller #Noir #Racconto #Cattura #CSI #CriminalMinds #SubENG #Delitto #Delitti #Crimine #Criminale #DivinumCrime #Blu #Notte #Carlo #Lucarelli #Misteri #Italiani #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DocuITA #Netflix #Streaming #SerieTV #Serie #TV #Stagione #Completa #StagioneCompleta #Tutte #Puntate #Puntata #Episodi #Episodio #Mafia #CosaNostra #MafiaItaliana #Corleone #Corleonesi #Cupola #Boss #CriminalitàOrganizzata #Camorra #Gomorra #Casalesi #CasalDiPrincipe #Clan #Boss #Ndrangheta #SacraCoronaUnita #Antimafia #Falcone #Borsellino #Saviano #RobertoSaviano #Riina #Provenzano #Vallanzasca #PippoManiero #Turatello #Mesina
#StorieMaledette #FrancaLeosini #Leosiners #Femminicidio #Crime #TrueCrime #Delitti #Misteri #Killer #SerialKiller #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Mistero #Delitto #Documentari #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DivinumCrime #Lucarelliracconta #BluNotte #CarloLucarelli #ColdCase #Crime #TrueCrime #Giallo #CronacaNera #CronacaItaliana #BluNotte #CarloLucarelli #MisteriItaliani #Lucarelliracconta #Blu #Notte #Carlo #Lucarelli #Racconto #Racconti #Giallo #Gialli #Noir #Thriller #Crime #TrueCrime #ColdCase #Cronaca #CronacaNera #Nera #CronacaItaliana #Crimini #Criminali #CasiIrrisolti #Misteri #Mistero #Documentari #DocITA #CrimeDoc #Indagine #Giallo #Omicidio #Delitto #Delitti #Assassino #Killer #SerialKiller #Noir #Racconto #Cattura #CSI #CriminalMinds #SubENG #Delitto #Delitti #Crimine #Criminale #DivinumCrime #Blu #Notte #Carlo #Lucarelli #Misteri #Italiani #Documentario #Docu #Doc #DocuITA #Netflix #Streaming #SerieTV #Serie #TV #Stagione #Completa #StagioneCompleta #Tutte #Puntate #Puntata #Episodi #Episodio #Mafia #CosaNostra #MafiaItaliana #Corleone #Corleonesi #Cupola #Boss #CriminalitàOrganizzata #Camorra #Gomorra #Casalesi #CasalDiPrincipe #Clan #Boss #Ndrangheta #SacraCoronaUnita #Antimafia #Falcone #Borsellino #Saviano #RobertoSaviano #Riina #Provenzano #Vallanzasca #PippoManiero #Turatello #Mesina
Categoria
📺
TVTrascrizione
00:00:00See you soon
00:00:41See you soon
00:01:00Doctor Alessandro Bernaroli has delicate hands and slender ankles.
00:01:04Doctor Alessandro Bernaroli is six feet tall and has the movements of a gazelle.
00:01:11Doctor Alessandro Bernaroli did his military service in Turin in 1997.
00:01:17Dr. Alessandro Bernaroli lives in Bologna and is an employee of a credit institution in Modena.
00:01:24Doctor Alessandro Bernaroli has a wife of radiant beauty.
00:01:30After three years of marriage, Doctor Alessandro Bernaroli, who got married in Finale Emilia on May 21st,
00:01:382005,
00:01:39He underwent surgery and changed his gender.
00:01:43On June 29, 2009, Doctor Alessandro Bernaroli necessarily requested and obtained from the Court of Bologna
00:01:51the registry correction of the name from Alessandro to Alessandra.
00:01:58Doctor Alessandro Bernaroli is currently the wife of his wife and in the marriage bond,
00:02:06which was automatically cancelled when Nagafe registered her new gender identity,
00:02:14he doesn't intend to give up.
00:02:16You see, Mrs. Bernaroli, anticipating the terms of a problem often means trivializing its scope.
00:02:23In addition to creating undue confusion, it must be said immediately that if we, Mrs. Alessandra Bernaroli,
00:02:32We are here to talk about it, to talk to each other, because his story is unprecedented.
00:02:38It is unprecedented both in terms of legal status and, not least, on a personal human level.
00:02:46You, Mrs. Alessandra Emiliana, born in 1971, were registered in the registry office as Alessandro Bernaroli until 2008.
00:02:59He was indeed a young man of exciting virility, wasn't he?
00:03:05Yes, that's right.
00:03:07In 2008, on the threshold of his 38th birthday, his life took a somersault.
00:03:13She does it because she is the one who overturns it with a strong choice, to give life to her life,
00:03:20to conquer the gender identity in which she recognized and recognizes herself.
00:03:25She undergoes the surgery that Alessandro makes her the beautiful lady
00:03:33which is right here in front of me.
00:03:36Everything correct so far?
00:03:37I would say yes, right.
00:03:39But, up to this point, nothing that bears the mark of uniqueness, because it is so widespread now.
00:03:44in the world the case of people, whether man or woman, does not choose to change
00:03:49sex, when they feel deeply uncomfortable living in the wrong body.
00:03:54However, before being individuals to whom nature assigns at birth
00:03:59sex, we are people.
00:04:03And to understand who we are talking to, I ask you, Mrs. Alessandra, to help me.
00:04:09to outline, here, a broad portrait of him.
00:04:12Let's start by saying she is Emiliana, she was born in Mirandola in 71, from both parents
00:04:17and teachers, and then?
00:04:20And then I went to school, high school, I went to scientific high school, I continued
00:04:27I studied at university and graduated in business economics in Modena.
00:04:33Perfect.
00:04:34Mrs. Alessandra, to understand through your experience how the
00:04:40signals and also awareness related to one's gender identity, makes us
00:04:44understand her, since childhood she has had the sensation of living in a body
00:04:50wrong.
00:05:10Yes, let's say that from a very early age, when I imagined myself as a child, it could happen to me.
00:05:18sometimes to imagine myself as a woman, not as a child, already as a woman, a beautiful woman,
00:05:23I imagined it, but it was like a fairytale fantasy.
00:05:27Listen, Mrs. Alessandra, but as a teenager for example, in your gestures, in your movements,
00:05:33in his behavior, there was nothing that raised any doubts about his sexual identity.
00:05:40questions, I don't know, to his friends, to his classmates, but also to his parents.
00:05:45But I have to tell the truth, I don't think so, in fact my transformation was a surprise for everyone,
00:05:55I mean, the image that I gave to the outside world was definitely the image
00:06:01100% human, I can say.
00:06:05She paid a lot of attention to her physique, I ask this because I saw some of the
00:06:09photo, let's say, from the period, and the image is that of a young man with grass who clearly
00:06:14he was wearing himself out in the gym to sculpt his abdominal muscles, in short, just under pressure or was it
00:06:21so, her?
00:06:22But it was like that and there was a reason, the reason was that after puberty he perceived that my
00:06:28body was going in a direction that was not the one that was told to me most, so
00:06:34there, there it was justified, this is my commitment also on the physical.
00:06:37That vain care that she devoted to her muscles, to her physique, was aimed
00:06:44to being what she thought she should be, that is, a man.
00:06:49Yes, of course, I've always played sports, but...
00:06:52Was it a thought she transferred to someone, confided in someone, or didn't talk about it with anyone?
00:06:57But I didn't talk about it with anyone because I didn't even really understand what it was, precisely because
00:07:03I had never heard of transsexualism.
00:07:24Without, Mrs. Benaroli, you underwent the surgery that led you to acquire
00:07:28female gender identity in 2008.
00:07:34He was 37 years old.
00:07:37Yes.
00:07:38But these are not choices that can be improvised, they are decisions that are reached after a long journey,
00:07:44tortuous, tormented.
00:07:46At what age did she become truly aware that living in the wrong body was
00:07:55his life that was wrong?
00:07:57But it's difficult to say an exact moment.
00:08:02Let's say that this path is painful because then you risk appearing even towards
00:08:07of others, people, so to speak, unbalanced in some way, I'll pardon the term.
00:08:12It goes without saying that before meeting her I had extensively researched her biography.
00:08:17and I saw that in her past, as a man, at least in appearance, she did not miss out
00:08:24nothing because in 97 she also did military service and she didn't do anything
00:08:28except in the Carabinieri, in the glorious corps of the Carabinieri.
00:08:32She has no problem with her soldiers, I mean, none of her companions have ever had any problems.
00:08:39perception, have you ever noticed that behind that handsome policeman of one meter and eighty
00:08:45there lived a person who had a female identity.
00:08:59I say no, I really enjoyed having this experience in the Carabinieri, in fact
00:09:04I also had the appreciation of the marshals I worked with in the stations, but then
00:09:09it was impossible to notice anything.
00:09:11Listen, Mrs. Alessandra, we have sports, gym, military service, studies, that's it, but let's get to the point.
00:09:17which in every sense, is the heart of the problem: women, sex, love.
00:09:24Before going to Alessandra, the girl who will later become his wife, she had
00:09:32other girls, flirtations, little flirtations, little stories?
00:09:36Well, let's say, let's say yes, I really liked the contact, the knowledge of the world
00:09:42female.
00:09:43I asked you a different question, I talked to her, if you had other affairs, I mean
00:09:49flirting, I mean stories with girls, stories...
00:09:53But yes, I had some girlfriends, of course, but that was my goal
00:10:00to get to know the female world.
00:10:02Excuse me if I interrupt, here, you have had affairs, here, but with these girls,
00:10:08here, she had sex with him, they say in my area, I mean, here, she had
00:10:14with their approaches, let's say, joyfully dirty, in short, he had sex with these girls,
00:10:19she?
00:10:20This question is not really relevant to defining...
00:10:23No, no, it's relevant.
00:10:23I acted like a male, then, clearly, I was more interested in delving into the
00:10:30psychological aspects, I was looking for, I was oriented more towards platonic love, let's say.
00:10:36But they were friends then, they weren't flirting.
00:10:38Listen, but these girls, maybe hopeful, well, weren't they surprised that they weren't
00:10:44a little bit of a hand-waving by her, you know, by this handsome young man who, you know...
00:10:48Sorry to ask them, let's say, I'm very rude, so, I don't know, here...
00:10:55In short, they were content with the small talk, let's talk about a boy.
00:10:58Listen, Mrs. Alessandra, let us understand, since you are, due to your stage of life, a woman
00:11:05in a man's body, well, was it men she was attracted to?
00:11:11But no, in fact, I also felt a physical attraction to women at the time.
00:11:16Then I don't know if it came from my nature, which in any case also, even from the point of view,
00:11:22in short, the functioning of the body, the hormonal nature, was still male, or
00:11:27if it was really my precise sexual orientation.
00:11:30But yes, I was attracted to girls and not boys.
00:11:34Yes, however, since the female gender identity is already deeply rooted in her,
00:11:40one would think that it would have been natural for her to feel attracted to men,
00:11:44not for women.
00:11:45A thought of banal logic.
00:11:46A heterosexual logic.
00:11:48But it's not a heterosexual logic, it's a two plus two equals four logic, in general.
00:11:51Anyway, going back to his path, we talked about his, let's say, relationships,
00:11:59very platonic flirting with these girls.
00:12:02Then Alessandra arrived, behold, the woman of his life.
00:12:07With Cerenza Griusa she is called Alessandra like her.
00:12:09Yes, incredible.
00:12:11So, how old were you when you met?
00:12:14Well, it was 1995, so I was 24 and she was 22.
00:12:21And so 19 years have already passed, that's a long time.
00:12:38How long were you and Alessandra together? Were you engaged before getting married?
00:12:44Well, ten years, because the wedding was celebrated in 2005, so ten years.
00:12:50We thought about it very carefully.
00:12:53Did she fall in love with Alessandra?
00:12:54Yes, it was truly a love that sparked immediately and was reciprocated and so it was a full love, let's say.
00:13:06What made you fall in love with this girl?
00:13:09But it's hard to say, certainly the beauty, but then knowing her it was the character,
00:13:17his character, his ability to understand me.
00:13:21We were in tune with each other on the most important things, let's say, in life, we were in tune.
00:13:27And so I really felt completely at ease there, that's all I can say.
00:13:34But was it the love of a man for a woman, what she felt for Alessandra?
00:13:38Well, it was definitely the love of one person for another person.
00:13:42Did you and Alessandra have sex?
00:13:44Yes, yes, we had sex.
00:13:46Was this her first time having sex?
00:13:47With pleasure, it was the first time, it was my first relationship.
00:13:50As a man, logically, that is.
00:13:55Listen, madam, on the other hand, 10 years of engagement, in short, even for people of precious chastity,
00:14:02I mean, I don't think you can spend time without having sex.
00:14:05The young lady was happy, in short.
00:14:06I was good at it, she, I would say, I didn't hear any, then again I think that otherwise I wouldn't
00:14:13would have married.
00:14:14So you and Alessandra were engaged for 10 years, and 10 years of engagement is a really long time.
00:14:21But, Mrs. Alessandra, if deep down you already knew that you were imprisoned in a body that did not belong to you,
00:14:29Why did he keep this girl tied to him? Why did he end up marrying her?
00:14:34Don't you think you were a little dishonest with her? Well, don't you think you deceived her in some way?
00:14:40This is a fair question, a pertinent question.
00:14:45But then I thought, I still thought I could remain a man and I really wanted to be with this person
00:14:56that I absolutely swore to myself that I would do everything to chase away this thought that I still believed to be a manageable one.
00:15:06from me.
00:15:07And so for this region, for this region, I got married.
00:15:16Listen, Mrs. Alessandra, you, we said, you and Alessandra got married in 2005,
00:15:22She told me about a church wedding, a religious wedding.
00:15:25A concordat marriage, of course, celebrated in church.
00:15:28She is a believer, in short, she got married in church, or getting married in church was one of those celebrations
00:15:35which are often dedicated mainly to the gratification of the parents.
00:15:39We come from two very Catholic, very religious families.
00:15:43But my wife had been educated by nuns, so I, too, had to go to the seminary,
00:15:50then after that I didn't go.
00:15:52I went to Mass, I don't know, I went even more every Sunday, I also read the psalms.
00:16:10It's called turning point, turning point and acting, turning point in some cases can be above all talking, that's it.
00:16:17How long after the wedding did you speak to your wife?
00:16:24So, let's say, did he confess this torment to his wife?
00:16:28Well, let's say this torment came out after a few years, let's say, let's call it,
00:16:40I don't know, we can say, in the third year.
00:16:42There, I felt so good, so comfortable, so safe with my wife.
00:16:47and I saw that it was increasingly difficult for me to push back this feminine part,
00:16:58this feminine being of mine that tended to emerge at every moment.
00:17:03It was getting harder and harder, it was an increasingly tougher fight.
00:17:07So I confided in her about this problem of mine.
00:17:11How did he react to his wife? How did she take it?
00:17:14Well, let's say that she wasn't convinced at first, let's say, she took it a bit badly,
00:17:20he broke a plate on my head, so to speak.
00:17:22Did you break the plate on your head?
00:17:24In the lead.
00:17:24In beef.
00:17:25And then, I mean, he wanted to understand better,
00:17:32and this was perhaps the point of my salvation.
00:17:36He hoped, he hoped that somehow it could be done, as I had tried for so many years,
00:17:44he hoped that he could somehow prevent this feminine evolution.
00:17:50He tried to reason, to try to find alternative solutions.
00:17:56There are always those who propose strange therapies, etc., but it has been seen that they don't work.
00:18:01So, his wife tried to dissuade her.
00:18:03I want to say one thing, that when we met previously, we talked to each other,
00:18:08she was talking about her wife and said, I have a love next to me, and she cried when she said it.
00:18:13Look, would she have made it without Alessandra, without her wife?
00:18:16But, frankly, I mean, now to say whether I would have made it or not, I don't know, maybe I wouldn't have made it.
00:18:25So, certainly, but I have no problem confessing that much of the credit for this transformation goes to him.
00:18:37All the credit goes to my wife, it must be said.
00:18:41In fact, she said next to an angel, let's say that his wife is the hidden protagonist of his story.
00:18:47Well, yes.
00:18:48Listen, Mrs. Alessandra, after your wife took the blow, well, let's say, and what a blow, there you go.
00:18:54Did you then decide together that she would undergo sex reassignment surgery?
00:19:00Yes, after that we tried, well, to find the best solutions.
00:19:04In essence, his wife took an active part in the decision that, in effect, would have taken away the man who was hers.
00:19:12Husband.
00:19:13Physically, yes.
00:19:14Which is no small feat, especially for a wife.
00:19:16But that's why it's called gender identity.
00:19:19Because sex, of course, is modified from an external point of view.
00:19:25But the biological sex of the person, that is not changed.
00:19:31It is an intervention, we can call it in some way aesthetic and functional.
00:19:36But it doesn't come, it doesn't go inside the genes, inside the chromosomes, to modify.
00:19:42DNA remains what it is.
00:19:43DNA, I mean, in reality, this person's nature has always remained the same.
00:19:49And what was it without? It was the essence of a person split in two, between mind and body.
00:19:54Of a person, therefore, we can define, intersexual.
00:19:57Anyway, his wife, here, this angel, who, as we will see, she is lucky enough to always have by her side,
00:20:04he understood, he accepted.
00:20:06So, but your families, your parents, how did they take it then?
00:20:10Well, let's start, Mrs. Alessandra, with your parents.
00:20:13When their handsome, tall, grenadier-clad son, sculpted in muscles like a bronze of viace,
00:20:20notifies her father and mother that they are about to become parents of a dazzling daughter, behold,
00:20:28What was his parents' reaction?
00:20:31Yes, that was a difficult time, that was a difficult time, and it was so difficult
00:20:37I said it with my wife by my side, because I just couldn't have done it alone.
00:20:44And there was the reaction, but at first it was just one of disbelief, like, what are you saying?
00:20:52Are you kidding us?
00:20:54No, I mean, it was such an absurd, unexpected thing, because as I was saying,
00:21:00I have never given any indication, I have never suggested that I could have effeminate behavior or anything else,
00:21:09so it was a classic bolt from the blue.
00:21:13And then, slowly, slowly, understanding the meaning of these words, seeing that part of the journey had already been completed.
00:21:21Well, how did you get along in your parents' jacket and tie?
00:21:23Yes, yes, in a suit and tie.
00:21:24That is, dressed as a man?
00:21:25Well, it was my birthday I kept that man's suit.
00:21:27Yes, it was a nice party for them too, after all.
00:21:30Here, we talked about the reaction of his parents, the Bernaroli parents.
00:21:35Here, but how did his wife's parents react and when did they understand that instead of a son-in-law
00:21:41were they about to find themselves a daughter-in-law?
00:21:43Well, let's say that I have a great relationship with my mother-in-law, but with my mother-in-law it was a bit maybe because
00:21:48he is a man,
00:21:50I mean, there's more difficulty, let's put it this way, he still has to digest it well, understand this well.
00:21:58But as far as you know, your wife's parents didn't tell you, but my daughter, but find a nice
00:22:04young brass, but who makes you do it, divorce, free yourself.
00:22:09She doesn't know if they told her or not.
00:22:10But if they told him, I don't know, but evidently they weren't convincing.
00:22:17Anyway, there's the wife, there's the family, there are the relatives, but outside there's life, that's it.
00:22:22There's the neighbor, there's the doorman, there's the newsagent who maybe opens his eyes wide and
00:22:27maybe a certain doctor says, well, I didn't know how to end, in short.
00:22:32And then, above all, there is work.
00:22:34But you, Dr. Alessandra Bernaroli, who as you said has a degree in business economics and is an official of an important
00:22:40credit institution in Emilia-Romagna,
00:22:44he just kept doing his job, that's it.
00:22:46How did you address the problem with your colleagues?
00:22:49I must also say that he has a delightful sense of noise, he also described it to me with amused irony.
00:22:55what happened when suddenly, one day she, even before having the operation, showed up at the office dressed as a woman,
00:23:05I remember if with a very comfortable trousers.
00:23:08Would you like to tell us what happened with your colleagues?
00:23:11Well, yes, let's say that little by little I started to dress in a more unisex way,
00:23:17so much so that everyone thought I was gay, that I was homosexual.
00:23:22Then came the moment when, lo and behold, they went into completely feminine clothes.
00:23:27Did they faint? What happened?
00:23:29No fainting, but some colleagues, maybe at the coffee machine, would immediately go away,
00:23:35but without making any comments, without telling me, so everyone except one, the office manager.
00:23:40The office manager.
00:23:40In the meantime, we are telling this story because I was also a union representative at the time,
00:23:45I had to go to a staff meeting, so I thought, I'll dress up,
00:23:50I wore a suit with a skirt, so an elegant jacket, a very chaste, modest skirt,
00:23:57but when I entered, already when I had a foot pulled out of the car,
00:24:02I was thinking that I had been wearing women's clothes for a few months now,
00:24:06I thought it had been digested by everyone, instead there I understood how much the skirt really was that symbol,
00:24:13not an item of clothing, but a symbol, what it means to be female, to be a woman,
00:24:21and so there everyone was with their eyes almost bulging out of their heads looking, like, oh my god, what's going on?
00:24:27Then when I entered the office, there was this office manager, he suddenly hit us,
00:24:32no, you must never allow yourself to come in women's clothes like that again, with a skirt,
00:24:38you must never wear the skirt again, you must never wear it again in this office as long as I am here
00:24:43I.
00:24:43By then I was so convinced that I almost started laughing, but thinking about it again, it's not funny,
00:24:50It's not funny because maybe a person still has a lot of uncertainties,
00:24:55so these behaviors are devastating.
00:24:59It must be said, Mrs. Alessandra, that with regards to the discrimination that transsexuals suffer,
00:25:06According to recent statistics, 45% of transgender people have been denied a job interview.
00:25:12due to sexual orientation.
00:25:14Well, in this regard, I wanted to say, in your opinion, to damage the image of transsexuals
00:25:22and therefore sometimes determine discriminatory behaviors towards them,
00:25:27Don't you also think that there is a lot of prostitution in the transsexual sphere?
00:25:35Discrimination must not be justified, but it is also true, as she said,
00:25:41It is also true that for too long a monotonous discussion on transsexualism has been carried on,
00:25:50let's call it that, with a single thought.
00:25:53Dominated a lot, dominated, yes, even by that, by an image a little.
00:25:56From that image which is certainly the image that catches the eye the most, because it is a visible image.
00:26:02Of course, it's enough to cross some of the avenues in our cities.
00:26:05Even some avenues.
00:26:06Mrs. Alessandra, I know that I can deal with clarity and simplicity,
00:26:10also the chapter relating to the surgical interventions you have chosen to undergo
00:26:17to acquire the gender identity with which he recognized himself.
00:26:21But we will do a lot together so that through his experience we can also understand
00:26:26how arduous, how much obstacles he was faced with, even physical and psychological suffering,
00:26:32both the path that the transsexual must go through to acquire gender identity
00:26:39in which he recognizes himself.
00:26:40We want to say what was the first intervention you underwent to start
00:26:44the great passage, shall we call it that?
00:26:46Yes, the first surgery I decided to undergo was voice surgery.
00:26:54Why?
00:26:56To the vocal cords to be precise.
00:26:58Yes, actually in my case it's better to say by voice.
00:27:01Let's say that the voice was a big problem for me because he had a very
00:27:05low, baritone and so it was a really big problem.
00:27:10So before the surgery that made her a woman in all respects,
00:27:15did she want to have a woman's voice?
00:27:17A woman's voice, certainly.
00:27:19In the United States of America I found a surgeon who performed and still performs these
00:27:26interventions which at the time were experimental interventions, therefore there was no guarantee of results.
00:27:31I had to sign, I paid and then there were no guarantees.
00:27:36But my need was so great, I could have lost my voice forever.
00:27:41In short, she risked having no voice in order to have a woman's voice.
00:27:45Yes.
00:27:45She went to Portland in America.
00:27:47In Portland, Oregon, yes, accompanied by my wife and this is important to say.
00:27:53The guardian angel.
00:27:54Because it was fundamental and this intervention is done both on the vocal cords but also has
00:28:01modified the entire internal part of the larynx, therefore the parts of the body where the sound waves
00:28:07they bounce, where the voice is formed with the harmonics.
00:28:11So his wife accompanied her, so he didn't try to dissuade her, he didn't tell her
00:28:15but it's a sexy voice, but you don't hear Amanda Lear who built a career on that voice.
00:28:21his wife did not try to dissuade her.
00:28:24My wife was probably even more worried than me.
00:28:28But I don't think so.
00:28:28Because I was very convinced.
00:28:30My wife had this worry about how I would end up with a mute person.
00:28:36Listen, Mrs. Alessandra, beyond the very high risk margin, it caused you suffering.
00:28:43are there any special features of this type of intervention?
00:28:45Do I mean physical suffering?
00:28:46Incredibly not much physical suffering, apart from having to be careful for
00:28:51a month of not making a sound.
00:28:55When I started speaking again then I really had some difficulties because
00:29:00a voice came out that I didn't feel was mine.
00:29:04That is, when I spoke I thought I was speaking and to me it seemed like someone else was speaking.
00:29:10So maybe here I had the greatest psychological difficulty and I found it in this
00:29:17intervention.
00:29:18I wanted to ask one thing, Mrs. Alessandra.
00:29:20Before facing the massive intervention that those who decide to change undergo
00:29:26sex, to acquire gender identity, whether man or woman, in short, which is
00:29:32recognizes, it appears that a long path is necessary, even long and complex,
00:29:40with psychologists, with specialists in the sector who must not only evaluate whether the person
00:29:46is prepared to face the intervention but if she is able to sustain that transition,
00:29:51it is a passage of shocking proportions.
00:29:53However, did she undergo analytical therapy, did she go to analysis?
00:29:59But I actually didn't, I didn't, I didn't follow this path.
00:30:04This path comes from a sort of guidelines, they are called international standards of care
00:30:11and they are very flexible guidelines, which yes, imply the intervention of specialists, including
00:30:18psychologists or psychiatrists or endocrinologists or others, or surgeons of course.
00:30:24While in Italy...
00:30:26It takes at least six months of...
00:30:27While in Italy it was established, I don't know for what reasons...
00:30:30Six months of psychotherapy...
00:30:32Which I also criticized...
00:30:33It's mandatory in Italy, but she didn't do anything...
00:30:35I consider this an unfair imposition on a person's freedom of self-determination.
00:30:43Listen, Mrs. Alessandra, you went to America precisely to change your voice. Where did you go to change your sex?
00:30:49I did my research there too and found the place in Thailand where I could undergo this surgery.
00:30:59with...
00:31:00Why the Therama?
00:31:01Because there, at least the research I had done then, then also for the different culture that exists in that
00:31:08village,
00:31:09many clinics had developed, with many professionals performing hundreds of operations a year.
00:31:16But now, first of all, in Italy too, it is also recognized, it is also supported by the public health service now.
00:31:26And there are, it must be said, for us Italians, there are also excellent surgeons who perform excellent operations.
00:31:30But of course.
00:31:31This, considering that his path was different...
00:31:34It is not mandatory to go abroad.
00:31:35Let's talk about mood during this period.
00:31:36But the mood was lighter because I knew that my wife was with me, she was coming with
00:31:44me, he followed me.
00:31:45Without, Mrs. Alessandra, to the extent possible, of course, to the extent that it cannot, indeed, cannot cause excessive disturbances.
00:31:55in those who listen to us,
00:31:56Can you describe to us what sex reassignment surgery essentially consists of, in other words, as in your case from male to female?
00:32:05Let's say that, contrary perhaps to what may be common sense, we are not talking about amputation here, let's say.
00:32:15The body is transformed, so there are no mutilation interventions, but it is a transformation that uses what is
00:32:24'it is, let's say so,
00:32:25and also retains all the nerve endings that are then capable of providing sensitivity and sexual pleasure
00:32:35as if it were a female organ, in some way, creating a bit of what the real anatomy is
00:32:43of the woman.
00:32:44Anyway, to return to his speech, I personally hear him say that for this surgery, precisely, of sex reassignment,
00:32:53She was stitched up in her private parts with 500 stitches, which is quite impressive when you put them in a row.
00:32:59a nice stretch of highway, in short.
00:33:01Yes.
00:33:01It's a chilling thought, I have to say, well, it fits, doesn't it?
00:33:04Yes, in fact the convalescence was a bit long.
00:33:08Listen, Mrs. Alessandra, after the operation, well, when you removed the vending machine, you saw the result of this,
00:33:16let's call it surgical magic,
00:33:18What was the psychological impact on her?
00:33:21But, look, after the surgery, I, it may seem incredible to say, but I, I mean, when I looked at myself for the
00:33:29first time,
00:33:30It seemed to me that I had always been like this, that is, it seemed to me to be my natural condition, as if I had always been in
00:33:39that condition.
00:33:41That is, I was as I was supposed to be.
00:33:44Well, because in fact it was the end of a journey, of a choice that had been long matured, long thought about,
00:33:51and also with torment over time.
00:33:53As you said, your wife was there for you, she accompanied them to Thailand, right?
00:33:59On this trip he was destined for an operation which, in fact, in some ways, took away her man, he goes,
00:34:05In short.
00:34:05Yes.
00:34:06Look, it's hard to imagine what was going on in your wife's mind,
00:34:11while he was waiting, behind the door of that operating room.
00:34:16Did you ever ask him?
00:34:18His wife?
00:34:19But, I confess, no, I...
00:34:24Is it only herself that she cares about?
00:34:26No, not for that reason, but I'm almost afraid to ask, because I actually realize that,
00:34:35that, in short, she wouldn't have wanted all this in a certain way,
00:34:42but, on the other hand, he understood my suffering and wanted to help me.
00:34:47And so going to ask these questions, I feel like...
00:34:54I would feel like putting her in a difficult position, that is, in some way, saying, but you were better before, you were better now,
00:35:02I wanted you more before, I want you more now.
00:35:05So I don't care about those moments which were difficult for both of us anyway.
00:35:13What matters to me is that we lived them together and that we are still together; that seems important to me.
00:35:20We talked about a sublime, extraordinary person.
00:35:23Now let's talk about frivolities, because we really like frivolities.
00:35:27When she left the hospital, here, with her new life, what dress did she wear?
00:35:33Do you remember it?
00:35:34Well, what a dress...
00:35:36Yes, during that period I liked wearing little dresses, let's say, suits, because they gave a more feminine image, so to speak.
00:35:46And had the famous one chosen it?
00:35:48Well, yes, he always chooses my clothes.
00:35:50Will he choose me now too?
00:35:51Even now, because when I try, evidently, I have less taste, I have less taste in clothes.
00:35:57Then my wife is very good and so she also really cares about seeing me always elegant.
00:36:03She is always very elegant.
00:36:04Without, madam, you... we have just talked about two vocal cord surgeries and the surgical reassignment of the
00:36:13sex.
00:36:14However, she told me personally that after these two surgeries she also underwent other surgeries.
00:36:21So how many interventions?
00:36:24But in all, considering also the small adjustments, about ten, among which I would also include, I would also include eliminating the
00:36:32beard, because...
00:36:34Shall we talk?
00:36:34The beard, let's talk.
00:36:36Besides my voice, my beard was also a problem for me, because there was really a lot of it.
00:36:39And so I spent two years on laser therapy and another two years on electrocoagulation, which is quite boring and also,
00:36:48well, it's also a bit annoying, let's say.
00:36:52These continuous discharges, then in the end we won...
00:36:56She has magnolia skin.
00:36:57He won, luckily without any holes in his skin.
00:37:01Of course, Mrs. Alessandra, but how many cars in terms of suffering, even time, there.
00:37:08Then there is also an economic aspect to all of this, which is very relevant.
00:37:11Well, how much things, excuse me if I may, but come on, how much?
00:37:14But the figures are quite high, so now there is the devaluation of the properties, but at least half an apartment, a nice
00:37:22apartment, in short, he could have gone out there.
00:37:27But then she invested in herself, but she also did other interventions, in ten.
00:37:32About ten, yes.
00:37:34Interventions that are aesthetically unacceptable, let's say, in short, without...
00:37:37Well, aesthetics, yes, they are maxillofacial procedures, actually.
00:37:41These are procedures that are correctly called facial feminization procedures, because I have never actually used silicones, fillers,
00:37:49or fillers, or Botox.
00:37:51Instead, I looked for those surgeons capable of working on the bones of the face, of making incisions as if it were a statue,
00:37:59Here you are.
00:38:00What has changed?
00:38:01Ah, I rebuilt my face.
00:38:04Did I rebuilt it?
00:38:06I reconstructed the forehead, the temples, I reconstructed the nose, I reconstructed the two maxillae, then the teeth were
00:38:13detached, removed, I wore braces for several years, I reconstructed my entire jaw, my chin, it was shortened, repositioned,
00:38:22then in various steps, with interventions lasting 5, 6, 7 hours each.
00:38:29With various surgeons, I still have the braces now, but for a few more months and then we will be finished.
00:38:36Paradoxically I didn't do the most classic surgery, when you think about a transsexual person you might think about whether it makes them…
00:38:42the breast.
00:38:42My breasts actually grew with hormone therapy and so I never wanted breasts.
00:38:48particularly...
00:38:49Are they no longer worn on big breasts? Is that enough of the surgery now, or are there any other minor adjustments?
00:38:54No, no, I know.
00:38:55Because he also seeks aesthetic perfection, then he can also, let's say, at a certain point...
00:39:02Degenerate.
00:39:02No, even bordering on obsession if I may.
00:39:06Yes, I agree, I agree with her.
00:39:08Because then, madam, changing sex is basically like being born a second time, it's basically like moving
00:39:13with an adult's step into the child's universe of a dimension yet to be discovered.
00:39:18So, what was the biggest difficulty you encountered?
00:39:23But the greatest difficulty...
00:39:25Psychological, material, in short.
00:39:27When you enter a new dimension, as I said, it is not just a personal relationship with your mirror,
00:39:37with their own gender identity.
00:39:39Gender identity is something that also has a reflection on relationships with others, with
00:39:44society.
00:39:44And then, when relating to others, the way of relating must change.
00:39:50What is femininity for you?
00:39:51No, femininity for me, who have lived it, is a way of it, it is something that is born inside
00:39:57of you.
00:39:57So it's something that exists, it's not a social convention.
00:40:18Listen, Mrs. Bernaroli, in this complicated web of events, of your radical choices,
00:40:26His wife, a sublime creature, I will never tire of saying it, continues to follow her, has continued to follow her
00:40:32and to also accommodate all these renewed finishing needs.
00:40:38That's right, he never said no to her.
00:40:41Yes, my wife has always supported me.
00:40:46But he didn't tell her enough, go to hell, I can't take it anymore, I'm fed up,
00:40:52he tired me out, his wife never told him.
00:40:55No, he never told me, maybe because I've never exaggerated.
00:40:59Damn, 10 interventions.
00:41:01No, okay, now with the interventions we said, I did them, they were a project.
00:41:05Oh well, if it's a project, there always need to be 10 interventions.
00:41:07Even a lot of stilettos, okay, I wear them every now and then.
00:41:10But let's clarify the patience that his wife has, in short, that all things considered he could also tell her
00:41:15enough, I'm tired, in short, that he never thought that, for example, that his wife Alessandra,
00:41:23who in fact lives within the narrow perimeter of her problems, Mrs. Bernaroli,
00:41:29he would have the right to a life of his own, a life, let's say.
00:41:33But we talked about this when this problem arose, when my problem arose.
00:41:41Regarding transsexualism, we talked about this too.
00:41:46And I even got to the point of telling her, sure, I'd be happy, but if you don't feel like it,
00:41:51at a certain point it's a completely understandable thing.
00:41:55We talked about this, I told him.
00:41:57Then I say, how would it have been possible, it's always, I mean, in the end he always followed me
00:42:05in all those interventions, he always advised me.
00:42:08Because he loves her very much, obviously.
00:42:09Because I think it's a manifestation of love.
00:42:12But, well, in fact, let's tell the truth, this woman does not live in the realm of normality,
00:42:18but, well, why, for example, does your wife work?
00:42:21No, my wife doesn't work, but...
00:42:23Why not, he worked before.
00:42:24At the beginning she had certainly resigned to follow me throughout this surgical process
00:42:32and then, after that, he never found his job again.
00:42:35But he never found it again because she is his wife, excuse me, for a discriminatory reason.
00:42:43No, I don't think so.
00:42:44Her wife does a lot for her.
00:42:45What do you do for your wife?
00:42:48Maybe I do something less.
00:42:51Perhaps between the two, she does more.
00:42:54Certain.
00:42:54I love her.
00:42:58I work for both of them.
00:43:01I mean, I try to do everything I can to make her feel at ease,
00:43:06so that she doesn't feel the stress of this situation too,
00:43:10and the legal battle we are having.
00:43:13In short, I try to do what I can.
00:43:15Then, certainly, the one who gave the most was her.
00:43:20So she is not afraid that her wife might look the other way sooner or later.
00:43:23and be interested in a man, for example?
00:43:25But now I...
00:43:26This cannot be denied at all.
00:43:29Listen, ma'am, I have a tough question to ask, but I can't avoid it.
00:43:33With the surgery she acquired a feminine sexuality
00:43:36and she is a woman in all respects.
00:43:37But do you and your wife have sexual relations?
00:43:40But let's say that our sexuality, necessarily,
00:43:46it changed and therefore it changed.
00:43:49After that we come together and we get along very well.
00:43:55If my wife's sexual orientation was previously directed towards men,
00:44:00now on the one hand I am the same person in mind and interiority
00:44:05that was before, but in the external appearance it is clear that the person is different
00:44:10and so the relationship has also changed in this sense.
00:44:14Excuse me, is this actually a homosexual relationship?
00:44:17But no, surely what it is not is that where even many people,
00:44:23Even the courts of judges are wrong, it is wanting to consider it a homosexual relationship.
00:44:29And why isn't it? Because homosexual relations...
00:44:31But is it a relationship between two women?
00:44:33But it's a relationship between two women, guys.
00:44:46And so he could cheat on her with a man?
00:44:49He could cheat on her, but that's where it comes into play...
00:44:52What comes into play?
00:44:53Marriage comes into play, that is, the marital relationship between two people
00:44:59who decide to build a life together that is not only or mostly made up of sex.
00:45:07Our family went far beyond sex, so sex was a component,
00:45:12but only one of the many, which has failed,
00:45:16It was not this lack that was so strong as to determine the collapse of this family relationship.
00:45:25These are the facts.
00:45:27Speaking about this topic, in a previous meeting of ours,
00:45:32speaking precisely about his tastes and his sexual inclinations,
00:45:37he said, I tell you verbatim, if one becomes male or female,
00:45:42His genes are no different, his DNA doesn't change.
00:45:46In fact, I have maintained the sexual tastes I had before.
00:45:49She essentially meant to say this,
00:45:51when he was a man, when he was Alessandro Bernaroli,
00:45:53I liked women.
00:45:54Now that I'm a woman, I still like women, basically.
00:45:59This I said, this is it.
00:46:00And this is, well, so she then also told me,
00:46:04If people want to call me a lesbian, then go ahead.
00:46:06It's not a problem for me.
00:46:07It's not a problem because I don't see anything wrong with being a lesbian,
00:46:11becomes a problem.
00:46:12And of course.
00:46:13And of course.
00:46:14It becomes a problem if someone who has to judge...
00:46:18But no one can afford to judge this continuum.
00:46:21But if a court of judges whose function is to judge...
00:46:25But you shouldn't judge something like this.
00:46:28But she told me, with the surgery what changes
00:46:32It's not biological sex, it's social sex.
00:46:35I express this experience to myself.
00:46:36So, here, on this basis, therefore,
00:46:38all the suffering, all the toil,
00:46:42all, let's say, the agony of surgical operations,
00:46:45then a transsexual crosses it just for physical appearance.
00:46:49It's not the physical aspect, but like social sex,
00:46:52I meant, change its gender.
00:46:55Gender is something that represents one's image in the mirror,
00:47:02but it also represents society's perception of this person.
00:47:07But what is the main point?
00:47:08It's that the person doesn't change.
00:47:11Why doesn't it change?
00:47:12Because this person, we said,
00:47:14who has a brain physiologically in a way
00:47:18and the body in the other.
00:47:20So a person who is made up of two halves,
00:47:23it is nothing more than a type of intersex person.
00:47:28This is...
00:47:29Mrs. Alessandra, let's now tackle the side
00:47:31which makes his personal history,
00:47:33a story that on a legal level
00:47:35can represent for our country
00:47:38an epochal turning point.
00:47:40After surgery,
00:47:43thanks to which she changed sex,
00:47:45in short she became a woman, go on,
00:47:48What does she do when she returns to Italy?
00:47:50Here, I mean what is the task
00:47:52which she immediately follows up on, necessarily?
00:47:56Once back in Italy, the task is to change the documents,
00:48:00update them to the new reality.
00:48:02So a question is put to the court
00:48:04where you ask to change your documents,
00:48:07then of the name and of the sex
00:48:09on the document, tax code,
00:48:12identity card, driving licence, etc.
00:48:14And so this, we have started this practice
00:48:18which was decided in June 2009,
00:48:22This change has been authorized.
00:48:24And then at that point it was necessary
00:48:28physically change the identity card.
00:48:30and going to the municipality of Bologna
00:48:32to request the new card
00:48:34he heard me answer
00:48:35but we have to wait
00:48:37to give the card with the new female name
00:48:40we have to wait for his divorce.
00:48:43I say, I said, like what divorce?
00:48:46I am not aware of any divorce.
00:48:48I mean, in the meantime I need the identity card,
00:48:51you have to give it to me.
00:48:53Then the divorce,
00:48:54that's something that concerns the relationship between spouses,
00:48:57so we'll take care of it, if necessary.
00:49:00A few months later he found out that they had split up our family
00:49:04without even communicating with us.
00:49:05So it's something, I think, incredible, mind-blowing.
00:49:10So, now, well, I'll summarize.
00:49:13She, this happened,
00:49:16that the civil status officer of the municipality of Finale di Emilia,
00:49:20since the sex registration has been rectified,
00:49:24proceeds on his own initiative to note in the registers
00:49:28the automatic dissolution of his marriage.
00:49:33Why is marriage prohibited in Italy?
00:49:36between people of the same sex.
00:49:37That is, when she had the operation, when she changed sex,
00:49:39he didn't take into account that this could happen.
00:49:42There is no same-sex marriage in Italy.
00:49:45From a theoretical point of view I took it into account,
00:49:48but it is also true that we, as I tried to explain,
00:49:51It's not that we've become the same sex.
00:49:54If anything, we have become anatomically the same shape,
00:49:59perhaps we have become of the same social gender.
00:50:02But to say that we have become same-sex is a bit of a stretch.
00:50:05These are subtleties, Mrs. Banneroli.
00:50:08These are subtleties.
00:50:09So, we have to, let's refocus the problem.
00:50:13Because it's a legal battle
00:50:15that from that moment you and your wife started,
00:50:20so much so that his case is called the Banneroli case.
00:50:23It has become a national case.
00:50:25The Banneroli case.
00:50:26Because we said, first of all,
00:50:28It is the first time in Italy that a man has changed sex after marriage.
00:50:32It's because she refuses that kind of forced divorce,
00:50:39imposed because she changed sex.
00:50:41Because she wants to remain his wife's wife.
00:50:44Certain.
00:50:45Here, in short, are the two Alexandras in love.
00:50:48they accept only against their will
00:50:51let the State dissolve their bond with Iubale.
00:50:55That's the point.
00:50:57What happened?
00:50:59That the couple we are talking about,
00:51:03one of the components, has changed sex,
00:51:06he said, but we want to stay together.
00:51:10Regardless of the sex change,
00:51:14we don't want there to be a registry correction.
00:51:17We want our marriage union
00:51:21it also stands the test of the sex change of one of the two cones.
00:51:26Of course, this conflicts formally
00:51:30with what is written by law.
00:51:31And so the civil status officer of Finale Emilia
00:51:35he says, no, I perform sex rectification
00:51:40and by doing this
00:51:42I lay down the premise of the dissolution of the marriage.
00:51:47The interested parties appeal
00:51:49the Court of Modena
00:51:50from an open reading
00:51:52saying, mind you there is a situation here
00:51:56which cannot be traced back
00:51:58to the traditional principles of marriage dissolution
00:52:01and there is a particular situation.
00:52:03and he says, you can stay together.
00:52:07I simplify a lot.
00:52:09The marriage subsists
00:52:11and that rectification of the deeds
00:52:15of the civil status
00:52:17It has no effect.
00:52:19We're going before the Court of Appeal of Bologna
00:52:22which modifies
00:52:23giving an interpretation
00:52:26much more formalistic instead.
00:52:27The law says
00:52:28that in these cases there must be a choice
00:52:31and so be it.
00:52:32The parties appeal to the Supreme Court.
00:52:35The Court of Cassation reasoned and said
00:52:37mind you, it's true that these rules
00:52:39provide for automatic selection
00:52:42but this conflicts with the principles of the Constitution.
00:52:50The Constitutional Court
00:52:53who reasoned
00:52:54in a non-perfectly linear way
00:52:58because he recognized
00:52:59that these rules
00:53:01they violate
00:53:02the provisions of the law
00:53:04on transsexualism
00:53:06violate constitutional principles
00:53:09they violate them because
00:53:10in essence
00:53:12they discriminate
00:53:14respect
00:53:15to other couples
00:53:17so there is a violation
00:53:19of the principle of equality
00:53:21the Constitutional Court
00:53:23he therefore recognized
00:53:24that in this case
00:53:26the Union can exist
00:53:28can maintain
00:53:30its legal relevance.
00:53:32He didn't take the next step
00:53:34he didn't say
00:53:35this union
00:53:37between people
00:53:37of the same sex
00:53:40can purely
00:53:40and simply
00:53:41continue over time
00:53:43but he said
00:53:44let the Supreme Court of Cassation deal with it
00:53:46the Constitutional Court
00:53:48he indicated
00:53:49a road
00:53:50but that
00:53:51does not offer us immediately
00:53:53the solution
00:53:54and this evidently
00:53:56it is the fruit
00:53:57of an attitude
00:54:00let's say
00:54:01too cautious
00:54:03you could say
00:54:04hypocritical
00:54:05or Pilate-like
00:54:06why at the Court
00:54:06he wondered
00:54:08a precise indication
00:54:10he only did it in part.
00:54:17The Court of Cassation has
00:54:19let's say
00:54:21an ugly cat
00:54:22to peel
00:54:22but he will have to solve it
00:54:24this problem
00:54:25and in my opinion
00:54:26he has to solve it
00:54:27in the sense
00:54:28to allow
00:54:29pending
00:54:30of what he will do
00:54:31the Parliament
00:54:31that the rights
00:54:33fundamentals
00:54:34of people
00:54:34be safeguarded.
00:54:40About the case
00:54:41Berneroli
00:54:42I have
00:54:42an opinion
00:54:43very clear
00:54:44I believe
00:54:45legally
00:54:45founded
00:54:46and that is
00:54:47that the request
00:54:48Of
00:54:51reject
00:54:52the dissolution
00:54:53automatic
00:54:54of marriage
00:54:55be founded
00:54:56if the parties
00:54:57they say
00:54:57we want to stay together
00:54:59they can do it.
00:54:59it is possible
00:55:01to adopt
00:55:02in Italy
00:55:02all this?
00:55:03Yes
00:55:03why the mistake
00:55:05of the Constitutional Court
00:55:06that drags on
00:55:08for a while
00:55:08of time
00:55:09is to have
00:55:10deemed
00:55:11That
00:55:11the rules
00:55:12double
00:55:13must be
00:55:15drawn
00:55:16from the Civil Code
00:55:18and not
00:55:18from the same
00:55:21Constitution.
00:55:22Therefore
00:55:23the legislator
00:55:24must take on
00:55:25his responsibilities
00:55:26the Parliament
00:55:27must do
00:55:28your own choices
00:55:29and not
00:55:29Do
00:55:29the same
00:55:30operation
00:55:31a bit
00:55:31hypoclitic
00:55:32what he did
00:55:33the Constitutional Court
00:55:34with a non possumus
00:55:36we can't do it
00:55:37you can do it
00:55:38if you don't do it
00:55:39it's because
00:55:40you don't want it
00:55:41politically
00:55:41or ideologically.
00:55:45Mrs. Alessandra
00:55:46but
00:55:47currently
00:55:47there are more people
00:55:48that coexist
00:55:49that those who get married
00:55:50to want to get married
00:55:51if only gays come
00:55:52Now
00:55:52Mrs. Alessandra
00:55:53Here you are
00:55:54but why
00:55:54his part
00:55:55of his wife
00:55:55to be stubborn
00:55:57to want to keep
00:55:58at all costs
00:56:00on the floor
00:56:00of civil effects
00:56:01a love relationship
00:56:02which can continue
00:56:04Very well
00:56:04even without
00:56:05a codification
00:56:06of the type?
00:56:07But certainly
00:56:07in fact many say
00:56:09but what need
00:56:10then there is
00:56:10to get married
00:56:11just being good together is enough
00:56:12but I say
00:56:14I say two things
00:56:15meanwhile if it's so true
00:56:16which is enough
00:56:17be well together
00:56:18At that time
00:56:19let's abolish marriage
00:56:20and there is no need anymore
00:56:21where's the problem?
00:56:23I don't see why
00:56:23something must be true
00:56:25for one category only
00:56:27of people
00:56:27and not for the other
00:56:28so that's where it's at
00:56:29the importance
00:56:30the importance is
00:56:31in being visible
00:56:33or invisible
00:56:34it's in being able to say
00:56:36to the whole society
00:56:38look at society
00:56:39we are together
00:56:41you don't have to treat us
00:56:42like two separate monads
00:56:44you have to treat us
00:56:45as one family
00:56:46this is the fundamental thing
00:56:49then in short
00:56:50it's a problem
00:56:50which will have to be resolved
00:56:52and it will also have to be resolved
00:56:53soon enough
00:56:54because at this point
00:56:55it's the wedding
00:56:56between people
00:56:56of the same sex
00:56:57the wedding
00:56:58It is present in Europe
00:56:59in the Netherlands
00:57:00in Belgium
00:57:01in France
00:57:01in Spain
00:57:02in Portugal
00:57:02in Arimarca
00:57:04Here you are
00:57:05practically
00:57:05we will arrive
00:57:06good last ones
00:57:07but we have to say
00:57:07something important
00:57:08why we don't have to
00:57:09forget
00:57:10that our marriage
00:57:12it's not a wedding
00:57:13celebrated
00:57:14in front of the mayor
00:57:14of the municipality
00:57:15but it is
00:57:16a wedding
00:57:17concordat
00:57:18is celebrated
00:57:19I didn't want to arrive
00:57:20a celebrated marriage
00:57:21in church
00:57:21for the church
00:57:22it is still valid
00:57:23that very point
00:57:24for the church
00:57:26our wedding
00:57:27it is still valid
00:57:29fully
00:57:30but why
00:57:31we want to say
00:57:31because it is still valid
00:57:32we want to say
00:57:33why the church
00:57:34correctly
00:57:35he understood
00:57:35unlike
00:57:36of the Italian Republic
00:57:37which is still uncertain
00:57:38he understood
00:57:39what is the true essence
00:57:40of transsexualism
00:57:42where the identity
00:57:43deeper
00:57:45of the person
00:57:45it doesn't change
00:57:46Therefore
00:57:47what internally
00:57:49the person
00:57:49his mind
00:57:50his soul
00:57:51that was
00:57:52and that remains
00:57:53and the church
00:57:54does not change
00:57:55the name
00:57:55Certain
00:57:56does not change
00:57:57the name
00:57:57but
00:57:59it doesn't melt
00:58:00not even automatically
00:58:01the wedding
00:58:02would have had
00:58:02all the power
00:58:03to do it
00:58:04we also want to say
00:58:04that the church
00:58:05it doesn't melt
00:58:06your wedding
00:58:06why consider
00:58:07transsexualism
00:58:09a disease
00:58:10and since
00:58:10when you get married
00:58:11in church
00:58:12we get married
00:58:12in the good
00:58:13and in evil
00:58:13in bad luck
00:58:15she is a person
00:58:16sick
00:58:17and then
00:58:17his wife
00:58:17he can't leave her
00:58:18Mrs. Alessandro
00:58:19if she wins
00:58:21this battle
00:58:21why come
00:58:22confirmed
00:58:23the validity
00:58:23of his bond
00:58:24double
00:58:25and this victory
00:58:26will represent
00:58:27truly a stone
00:58:28milestone
00:58:29on the path
00:58:30arduous note
00:58:31of recognition
00:58:32in Italy
00:58:32of marriage
00:58:34between people
00:58:34of the same sex
00:58:35that with the support
00:58:36of his lawyers
00:58:37he is fighting
00:58:38he fights
00:58:39a battle
00:58:39that she
00:58:40faces
00:58:41for rights
00:58:42of all transsexuals
00:58:44and of all the gods
00:58:45moreover
00:58:46that on the floor
00:58:46of civil rights
00:58:48I am still here today
00:58:50unduly
00:58:51in my opinion
00:58:52landless people
00:58:53Mrs. Alessandra
00:58:55among many struggles
00:58:56prejudices
00:58:57difficulty
00:58:58at least he tells us
00:58:58an advantage
00:58:59of having been
00:59:00in the past
00:59:01a man
00:59:02the advantage
00:59:03that I found
00:59:04is that I was able to
00:59:05the advantage
00:59:05of having been a man
00:59:06I was able to get to know
00:59:08what it is exactly
00:59:09male culture
00:59:11male thought
00:59:13Therefore
00:59:13the different approach
00:59:14to things
00:59:17in power
00:59:19in command
00:59:19a value
00:59:20achieved
00:59:21if he went back
00:59:23he would do it all again
00:59:24would rewrite
00:59:25the same script
00:59:26for its history
00:59:27if he went back
00:59:29what
00:59:30go back
00:59:31you can't
00:59:31I
00:59:32I followed
00:59:33this path
00:59:34Why
00:59:35I was born this way
00:59:37so it was a path
00:59:38inevitable
00:59:39already written
00:59:40when did you get married
00:59:41she and her wife
00:59:42the couple
00:59:43heterosexual
00:59:43you were in a position
00:59:44to procreate
00:59:45you have not had
00:59:46or you didn't want to
00:59:47children
00:59:47at first they didn't come
00:59:49these children
00:59:50but it was better this way
00:59:51Why
00:59:52with labor
00:59:53of the transsexual journey
00:59:55it would have been
00:59:55Really
00:59:56a complication
00:59:58much bigger
00:59:59much greater
01:00:00because there would have been
01:00:01responsibility of children
01:00:02that would have somehow
01:00:04complicated things
01:00:05maybe he wouldn't have done it
01:00:07he wouldn't have done it
01:00:08This
01:00:09I don't believe that
01:00:11because unfortunately
01:00:12apart from the fact that there are
01:00:12many examples of people
01:00:14that even with children
01:00:15I'm talking about her
01:00:15I
01:00:16my story
01:00:18proves it
01:00:18I have always tried
01:00:19to fight
01:00:20against this
01:00:21against this being of mine
01:00:22transgender person
01:00:24and I never succeeded
01:00:26so I think that unfortunately
01:00:27even if there had been
01:00:28the children
01:00:28I wouldn't have been able to
01:00:30not to do
01:00:31this path
01:00:32because it's a path
01:00:33which is written
01:00:33inside you
01:00:34so the fact
01:00:35of not having children
01:00:36somehow
01:00:37he facilitated
01:00:38then now
01:00:39in the future
01:00:40I am trying to say
01:00:41everything is possible
01:00:42she froze
01:00:42she froze
01:00:43he made it freeze
01:00:44his sign
01:00:45yes I did sperm cryopreservation
01:00:48so in theory
01:00:49it is not excluded
01:00:51that can be had
01:00:52but I want to say
01:00:53we in the meantime
01:00:54let's try to carry on
01:00:56our life as a couple
01:00:57then the children
01:00:58we don't see it
01:01:00here's how it's a must
01:01:01let's say so
01:01:01talking to her
01:01:03on other occasions
01:01:05I heard it said
01:01:05my wife and I
01:01:07we are a happy couple
01:01:09it's true that happiness
01:01:11he doesn't know any recipes
01:01:12but if she has one
01:01:14is he giving it to us?
01:01:16I
01:01:17I don't think so
01:01:18to be
01:01:19how to say
01:01:21able
01:01:22to teach something
01:01:23but
01:01:24Here you are
01:01:25us
01:01:25we always look for
01:01:27to speak
01:01:28to speak
01:01:29some problems
01:01:30very openly
01:01:32avoiding
01:01:33Of
01:01:33to keep us
01:01:35of secrets
01:01:35to keep us
01:01:36of unexpressed things
01:01:37inside us
01:01:38and then
01:01:39maybe this one too
01:01:40sharing
01:01:41this ability
01:01:42to then also find
01:01:43solutions together
01:01:45this
01:01:45this one exactly
01:01:46this living together
01:01:47every important moment
01:01:50of life
01:01:51this can be
01:01:52It can be useful
01:01:52to keep
01:01:53to keep alive
01:01:54a relationship
01:01:55in short, me
01:01:56this I can say
01:01:57I feel I can say
01:02:22to keep alive
01:02:24to keep alive
01:02:24and to keep alive
01:02:40Thank you all.
Commenti