- 5 hours ago
- #dialogtigapenjuru
- #awaninews
Can ASEAN maintain unity and peace without forcing its members to choose sides in a deepening West Asia conflict?
Is ASEAN still dependent on global powers for its energy security — and is regional energy integration too idealistic amid today’s geopolitical tensions?
Catch the discussion with experts from Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand tonight on Dialog Tiga Penjuru, 8.30pm
#DialogTigaPenjuru #AWANInews
Is ASEAN still dependent on global powers for its energy security — and is regional energy integration too idealistic amid today’s geopolitical tensions?
Catch the discussion with experts from Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand tonight on Dialog Tiga Penjuru, 8.30pm
#DialogTigaPenjuru #AWANInews
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00The recent conflict in Iran has the world on edge.
00:04Everything from security to energy to geopolitics has been thrown into the air
00:09and no one is certain as to how this conflict will pan out.
00:14But for the region of ASEAN especially, probably key amongst all is energy security.
00:21Now, recent disruptions towards the passages of all tankers and ships in the Strait of Hormuz
00:26have revived questions about whether this region is too dependent on oil and gas,
00:31especially coming from the Middle East.
00:33And within the framework of ASEAN, what can we do better to reduce set dependence
00:38to ensure a better and more secure future?
00:42This is Dialog Tiga Penjuru.
00:52So joining me today is Dr Bandit Aroman, Head of Political Science
00:55and Lecturer of Security and Peace Management from the Faculty of Liberal Arts,
01:00Kirk University in Thailand.
01:01Professor Dr Mohamed Mizan Aslam is an international security expert
01:06and Dr Tia Mariatul Kibtiah is an international relations expert
01:10at BINUS University in Indonesia.
01:12Thanks so much all for joining us.
01:16Let me start with Dr Tia.
01:18Dr Tia, roughly speaking as an opening question,
01:20how do you see the current conflicts in the Middle East and Iran,
01:25especially affecting ASEAN's energy security?
01:29Exactly.
01:30All, anything happen in the Middle East always influence to the Southeast Asia,
01:34especially for the ASEAN crunches.
01:37For example, not only now,
01:39in hot issue about the Hormuz Strait
01:42and then the conflict between the US, Israel versus Iran,
01:46but also I think we have to feedback about the, you know,
01:50like the terrorism issue for the last decade,
01:54how the many people, for example, in Southeast Asia,
01:58from Southeast Asia, from Indonesia,
02:00especially going to Syria based on the jihad reasons
02:05and finally back to Indonesia
02:07and maybe do the terror here
02:11and become the terrorists
02:12and this one show us that
02:15how the Middle East issues, Middle East conflict
02:18always influence to the ASEAN countries
02:21or Southeast Asia countries,
02:24especially for the Malaysia and Indonesia.
02:26And now, Mas Lukman,
02:29we can see the conflict between the US,
02:33Israel versus Iran,
02:34especially for the Hormuz Strait
02:36and finally influence to the economic development,
02:41especially for the ASEAN countries.
02:44You can see, Mas Lukman,
02:46in Philippines,
02:47maybe this is the complicated issue
02:50and the big problem
02:52how the energy is very essential
02:53for developing countries like us,
02:55like the Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, and Thailand.
02:58And this is very essential.
03:01And finally, maybe my suggestion
03:03is to our government,
03:05to all countries in ASEAN,
03:08maybe to strengthen each other,
03:10Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia,
03:12how to strengthen the economic system here,
03:15how to build the economic system in ASEAN
03:18and always maybe ready
03:21to face the conflict in many regions,
03:25including in Middle East,
03:26not only for now,
03:27maybe for the next,
03:29because the Middle East always
03:30like to happen a conflict there,
03:33so the solution is ASEAN countries
03:38have to ready to all conditions.
03:41For example,
03:42maybe pay attention again
03:44to the maybe pillars in ASEAN,
03:48especially for the three pillars,
03:49economic system,
03:52and first,
03:53the second is how to political system,
03:55and then the sociocultural system.
03:57Three pillars ASEAN is very essential
04:00how to build,
04:01how to stand each other in ASEAN.
04:04Yeah, I think most countries,
04:06if not all countries in the world
04:07are affected one way or another,
04:09but I think as mentioned just now,
04:11countries within ASEAN
04:12are among the most affected
04:13because we are some of the most open economies,
04:16we are very dependent on exports,
04:18we are very dependent on energy,
04:20whether be it LNG or oil
04:22coming from the Strait of Hormuz.
04:24But Dr. Bandit,
04:25Thailand has got to be
04:26one of the most significantly affected.
04:27It gets around half of its oil
04:30and more than 20%
04:32of its liquefied natural gas,
04:33LNG,
04:34from the Strait of Hormuz.
04:35How has it been affected so far
04:37and how is it managing this short term?
04:41Yes, definitely in Thailand,
04:43I think the Strait of Hormuz,
04:45it is the heart of the energy resources
04:49coming from,
04:50especially from Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
04:53Of course,
04:55in the beginning,
04:56we are not expected
04:57that the conflict between
05:00the US,
05:02Israel and Iran
05:03will be a long war
05:05that will be affected
05:06Thailand and the ASEAN region.
05:10But now,
05:11the people in Thailand
05:12might be thinking differently.
05:16We think that the Iranian
05:18has a lot of,
05:20I think that the strategy
05:23that has been,
05:24you know,
05:27shown to the people
05:30that they have another,
05:31you know,
05:32dimension that they have
05:33preventing their countries
05:36and also the accepting
05:38of the Gulf regions
05:40and also the uncertainty
05:42of the energy prices in Thailand
05:45that's making Thai people,
05:49especially for those entrepreneurs
05:52and also the logistics
05:54which cost a lot of
05:57funnel oil prices
05:58and gas prices in Thailand
06:00is go,
06:01I think,
06:02three times higher
06:04than before the war started.
06:08So this is on might be,
06:11you know,
06:11thinking that what is
06:14the possibility
06:16that the ASEAN region
06:18is the place
06:20where there is
06:21the less conflicts
06:23and also there is
06:25the dimensions
06:27of the food security resources.
06:30we also thinking
06:32that the security management
06:34might not be
06:36concerned just
06:37only the state management.
06:39We also thinking
06:40now to the
06:42human security
06:43in Thailand
06:44for the long term.
06:46What are the
06:48short-term measures
06:48being taken?
06:49In Malaysia,
06:49for example,
06:50the government
06:50is under pressure,
06:52fiscal pressure especially,
06:53but also political pressure
06:54to maintain
06:55fuel subsidy
06:56for most people.
06:58How about Thailand?
07:00Because taking into
07:01consideration what I said
07:01just now,
07:02you get about
07:02half of your oil
07:03from the Strait of Hormuz,
07:05you get about
07:0520% or so
07:06of your liquefied
07:07natural gas
07:07from the Strait of Hormuz.
07:09We'll talk about
07:09the long term later,
07:11but what are the
07:12ad hoc,
07:13you know,
07:14spontaneous measures
07:14taken by the Thai government
07:15to mitigate its impacts
07:17on the Thai people?
07:19Actually,
07:20the government
07:21already,
07:21you know,
07:22after the
07:22set turn
07:23by the new
07:25government
07:26from under
07:27Anu Kinshan,
07:28Virakun.
07:29So,
07:29after the oil price
07:31gone very high,
07:33of course,
07:34these,
07:34the dimensions
07:37of the people,
07:39you know,
07:40against the governments
07:41in terms of
07:42the high prices
07:43is gone to
07:45requesting
07:46the wave
07:48of the government
07:49subsidized
07:50on the oil price,
07:51especially for
07:52the public
07:53transactions,
07:54also
07:55the logistic
07:56forces
07:57and also
07:58the
08:00energy
08:01resources
08:02for the
08:03renewable energy
08:04resources,
08:05the solar
08:06same wave
08:06of the
08:07prices.
08:09So,
08:09these are the
08:10criteria that
08:11government
08:11tried to
08:12set up
08:13the
08:15subsidy
08:16to the people.
08:17Right.
08:18I just have
08:19a quick
08:19follow-up
08:20for you,
08:20Dr. Bandit,
08:21before I move
08:21on to
08:21Professor
08:22Mizan.
08:24This
08:25conflict,
08:25among others,
08:26have highlighted
08:27the need
08:28for a
08:28long-term
08:29plan
08:29to
08:31solidify
08:32and diversify
08:33our
08:34energy source
08:35and our
08:35energy security
08:36amongst all
08:37ASEAN countries,
08:38including Thailand,
08:38including Malaysia
08:39and Indonesia,
08:40of course.
08:41So,
08:41we've talked
08:41about short-term
08:42plans.
08:43Any semblance
08:44of long-term
08:45planning?
08:46What are
08:46Thailand's
08:47long-term
08:47plans to
08:48reduce
08:48or diversify
08:49its dependence
08:50on oil
08:52coming through
08:53the Middle East?
08:53I think
08:54for me,
08:55from my point
08:56of view,
08:56we don't see
08:57a concrete
08:58long-term
08:59planning
08:59from our
09:00side.
09:02We don't
09:03see
09:04the
09:05long-term
09:06planning,
09:07but of course,
09:08the effective
09:09of the
09:10oil prices,
09:11we see
09:12that
09:13now
09:13the
09:14settlement
09:15of the
09:15government
09:15try to
09:16set up
09:17what you
09:18call
09:19the
09:21energy
09:23resources
09:24from
09:25the
09:28solar
09:29resources,
09:30solar,
09:31what you
09:32call
09:32the
09:33solar
09:33for
09:35the
09:36electricity
09:36that
09:37can be
09:38waived
09:40up to
09:40100%.
09:41and
09:42recently,
09:43if you
09:43see that
09:44the
09:44people
09:44behavior
09:45for
09:46a car
09:47that
09:48they
09:48are
09:48motivating
09:51people
09:52to
09:52use
09:53more EV
09:54car
09:55rather than
09:56the
09:56previous one,
09:58now the
09:58people
09:58trust
09:59more
10:00to
10:01convince
10:03to buy
10:04EV
10:05cars.
10:06most of
10:08the
10:08company
10:09of the
10:10EV
10:10car
10:10already
10:11landed
10:12in
10:14Thailand
10:15and
10:15opened
10:16a lot
10:16of
10:16the
10:16company
10:17and
10:18especially
10:19now we
10:20have
10:20the
10:20motor
10:21show
10:22is going
10:22on in
10:23the heart
10:24of Bangkok.
10:25We never
10:26seen it
10:27before that
10:27a lot of
10:28people and
10:28crowded
10:29of people
10:29now
10:30they
10:31already
10:32planned
10:33for
10:33a
10:34long
10:34term
10:34because
10:35of
10:35the
10:35they
10:37have
10:37self-protection
10:39rather than
10:39they are
10:40depending
10:41on the
10:42government
10:42long
10:43term.
10:43Right,
10:44right.
10:46Professor
10:46Mizan,
10:49do you
10:50think
10:51it's fair
10:51to say
10:52that following
10:53the
10:53conflict
10:54in Iran,
10:54ASEAN
10:56countries have
10:56been caught
10:57grossly
10:57unprepared
10:58in terms
10:59of its
10:59energy
11:00security.
11:01Yeah,
11:03thank you very much
11:03for having me.
11:04So,
11:05Luqman,
11:05I may say
11:06that you
11:07are right.
11:08Actually,
11:09we are
11:10somehow
11:11not fully
11:12ready.
11:13I think
11:13not only
11:14Malaysia
11:14or South
11:15East Asia
11:16particularly
11:16but
11:18all
11:19country
11:20around the
11:20world
11:20actually
11:21not prepared.
11:22Even
11:22if we
11:23go
11:23by details
11:25even
11:26the
11:26Congress
11:27of
11:28America
11:28also
11:28don't
11:29know
11:29the
11:29attack
11:30is
11:30going
11:30to
11:30be
11:31launched
11:31by
11:32Donald
11:33Trump
11:33himself
11:34without
11:35asking
11:36consensus
11:37from
11:38the
11:38Congress.
11:39And even
11:40the
11:40Middle
11:41Eastern
11:41countries
11:41also
11:42don't
11:42know
11:42about
11:42the
11:43attack.
11:43And
11:44actually
11:44it
11:44is
11:45solely
11:45a
11:46decision
11:46by
11:47President
11:48of
11:48America
11:48as well
11:49as
11:49Israel.
11:51Okay,
11:52anyway,
11:52it did
11:52happen.
11:53Now
11:53the
11:54issue
11:55is
11:55how
11:56to
11:56contain
11:56and
11:57how
11:57to
11:57manage
11:58or
11:59we
11:59control
12:00the
12:01damage
12:02that's
12:02the
12:02main
12:02thing.
12:03And
12:03the
12:05incident
12:06that
12:06happening
12:06right now
12:07left
12:08ASEAN
12:09actually
12:09at a
12:10very
12:10critical
12:11situation.
12:12So
12:12we
12:12know
12:13that
12:13for
12:13example
12:13in
12:14Philippines
12:14country
12:16have
12:16been declared
12:17an
12:18energy
12:18emergency
12:19so
12:20we
12:20can
12:20see
12:20also
12:21in
12:21Indonesia
12:21lots
12:22of
12:23cars
12:23motor
12:24bikes
12:24have
12:24to
12:25queue
12:25to
12:26get
12:26a
12:26petrol
12:27even
12:28in
12:28Malaysia
12:29in
12:30Thailand
12:30so
12:31Southeast
12:32Asia
12:32mainly
12:33have
12:35been
12:35impacted
12:36by
12:36this
12:37situation
12:37and
12:38many
12:40kind
12:40of
12:40like
12:41initiative
12:42have
12:42been
12:42taken
12:43for
12:43example
12:44to
12:44try
12:45to
12:45control
12:45the
12:45price
12:46reducing
12:47the
12:47price
12:47by
12:47injecting
12:48subsidized
12:50oil
12:52and
12:52also
12:53work
12:54from
12:54home
12:55reduce
12:55the
12:56day
12:57of
12:57work
12:57and
12:58many
12:58more
12:58and
12:59also
12:59I
13:00did
13:01agree
13:01with
13:02our
13:02both
13:02panelists
13:04as
13:04well
13:04which
13:05is
13:06the
13:07use
13:07of
13:07EV
13:08and
13:09also
13:10electric
13:10vehicle
13:11as
13:12part
13:13of
13:13the
13:14clever
13:15decision
13:16right
13:16now
13:16but
13:18it is
13:18we
13:19are
13:20in
13:20the
13:20situation
13:21which
13:21is
13:21not
13:21really
13:22prepared
13:22so
13:22it
13:23makes
13:23things
13:24very
13:25hard
13:25to
13:25adapt
13:26all
13:26this
13:26thing
13:27it
13:27needs
13:27time
13:27and
13:28then
13:28also
13:29for
13:30electricity
13:30consume
13:31lots
13:32of
13:32oil
13:33which
13:33is
13:33normally
13:34for
13:35South East Asia
13:36or
13:37ASEAN
13:37countries
13:38which
13:38depends
13:38on
13:38the
13:39fossil
13:39fuel
13:40so
13:40now
13:41back
13:41to
13:42coal
13:43as a
13:43main
13:44source
13:45for
13:45this
13:45energy
13:46for
13:46the
13:46machines
13:47but
13:48the
13:49coal
13:50is
13:51much
13:51higher
13:52in terms
13:52of
13:53price
13:53rather than
13:54oil
13:54so
13:55I
13:55think
13:55the
13:57thing
13:58that we
13:58are
13:58doing
13:59right
13:59now
13:59is
14:00more
14:00on
14:00short
14:01term
14:02like
14:03act
14:04but
14:05for
14:06long
14:06term
14:06we
14:06need
14:07more
14:07comprehensive
14:08action
14:09to
14:09counter
14:10this
14:11issue
14:11yeah
14:12right
14:12we're
14:13talking
14:13about
14:13energy
14:14but
14:14I
14:14also
14:14understand
14:15your
14:15ambit
14:15of
14:15international
14:16security
14:16Prof
14:17Mizan
14:17how
14:18will
14:19or
14:20how
14:20can
14:20energy
14:22insecurity
14:23also
14:24affect
14:24regional
14:25security
14:25for
14:26ASEAN
14:26yeah
14:27actually
14:29energy
14:30security
14:31is
14:31something
14:32that
14:33should
14:34be
14:34in
14:35mind
14:35for
14:36most
14:37of
14:37the
14:37countries
14:37in
14:38this
14:38world
14:38but
14:39I
14:39think
14:39for
14:40countries
14:41who
14:41are
14:41always
14:42having
14:43a
14:43big
14:43aim
14:45or
14:46having
14:46a
14:46big
14:48ambition
14:49they
14:50already
14:50put
14:50energy
14:52security
14:52as
14:53one
14:53of
14:53the
14:53critical
14:54things
14:55in
14:55their
14:56policy
14:57or
14:58their
14:58doctrine
14:59something
14:59like
14:59that
15:01because
15:02we
15:03know
15:03that
15:03now
15:04the
15:05whole
15:05world
15:06is
15:06not
15:06only
15:07facing
15:07a
15:07traditional
15:08threat
15:09that
15:10come
15:10from
15:11you
15:11know
15:11from
15:11the
15:12war
15:12which
15:13is
15:14another
15:15terms
15:15that
15:15call
15:16it
15:16like
15:17a
15:17real
15:17fight
15:18between
15:18country
15:19and
15:19country
15:19between
15:20army
15:20and
15:20army
15:21now
15:21we
15:22are
15:22facing
15:22so-called
15:23asymmetrical
15:24warfare
15:24or irregular
15:26warfare
15:26that
15:27comes
15:27from
15:28terrorism
15:29it
15:29comes
15:30from
15:30resistance
15:31it
15:31comes
15:32from
15:32bioterrorism
15:34and
15:35those
15:36kind
15:36of
15:37thing
15:37and
15:38energy
15:38is
15:39one
15:39of
15:39the
15:39thing
15:39that
15:40will
15:40make
15:41the
15:41whole
15:41world
15:42in
15:42the
15:42big
15:43trouble
15:43right
15:44now
15:44that's
15:45why
15:45it's
15:45not
15:45only
15:46about
15:46protecting
15:46the
15:47country
15:47sovereignty
15:48but
15:48protecting
15:49a
15:49critical
15:50industry
15:50for
15:51example
15:51oil
15:52industry
15:53the
15:53oil
15:54refinery
15:54protecting
15:56even
15:56the
15:56salination
15:58of the
15:58country
15:58itself
15:59even
16:00the
16:00oil
16:01production
16:01the
16:02water
16:03production
16:04even
16:04even
16:05the
16:05broadcasting
16:06centers
16:07so
16:08all
16:08this
16:09part
16:09of
16:10the
16:10so-called
16:10the
16:11critical
16:11infrastructure
16:12that
16:12need
16:12to be
16:13guarded
16:14or
16:15to be
16:16in
16:16one
16:17of
16:17the
16:17like
16:18a
16:18doctrine
16:19for
16:19the
16:19country
16:19to
16:20protect
16:21all
16:21this
16:21kind
16:21of
16:22thing
16:22and
16:23anyway
16:24energy
16:25security
16:26is one
16:26thing
16:27and also
16:27it
16:27impacted
16:28us
16:29especially
16:29in
16:29Southeast
16:30Asia
16:30and
16:31now
16:31because
16:32of
16:32the
16:32closure
16:33of
16:34the
16:34Hormuz
16:34trade
16:35and
16:35recently
16:36also
16:37we can
16:38see
16:38the
16:39proxy
16:40of
16:40Iran
16:41in
16:42Yemen
16:43which
16:43is
16:43Houthis
16:44also
16:44already
16:45threat
16:45put a
16:46threat
16:47that
16:47they're
16:47going
16:47to
16:48close
16:48Bab
16:49Al-Mandad
16:50as well
16:50so
16:51if
16:51Bab
16:51Al-Mandad
16:52which
16:52is
16:52the
16:53Red Sea
16:53plus
16:53with
16:54Hormuz
16:54trade
16:54combined
16:55so
16:56it
16:56will
16:56impacted
16:58about
16:58one-third
16:59of
16:59the
16:59oil
17:00and
17:00also
17:00gas
17:01LPG
17:02production
17:02shipping lines
17:04so
17:05then
17:05the
17:06flow
17:06will
17:06come to
17:07Southeast
17:07Asia
17:07then
17:08we
17:09will
17:09have
17:09another
17:10possible
17:11catastrophic
17:13and also
17:13problem
17:14when
17:15Southeast
17:15Asia
17:15especially
17:16Malacca
17:16Strait
17:17China
17:18South
17:18China
17:19become
17:20busy
17:21with
17:21this
17:22kind
17:22of
17:22issue
17:22and
17:23things
17:23right
17:23and
17:24Bab
17:24Amandad
17:25is
17:25also
17:25one
17:25of
17:25the
17:26top
17:26five
17:26I
17:26think
17:26at
17:27least
17:27top
17:27three
17:28streets
17:29through
17:30which
17:30a lot
17:31of
17:31the
17:31world's
17:32oil and
17:32gas
17:32supply
17:32flows
17:33I
17:34think
17:34one
17:34more
17:35interesting
17:35point
17:35and
17:36angle
17:36about
17:37how
17:37energy
17:38insecurity
17:38in
17:38ASEAN
17:39can also
17:39affect
17:40security
17:40is that
17:41it
17:41can also
17:41affect
17:42neutrality
17:42because
17:42for the
17:43longest
17:43time
17:43I'm
17:43sure
17:43you
17:44all
17:44are
17:44very
17:44familiar
17:45the
17:46countries
17:46of
17:46ASEAN
17:46have
17:47played
17:52but
17:53when
17:54you
17:54talk
17:55about
17:55energy
17:55independence
17:56of
17:56ASEAN
17:57or
17:57lack
17:58thereof
17:59we
18:00probably
18:01would
18:01be
18:02faced
18:02with
18:02choice
18:03or
18:04no
18:04choice
18:04in
18:05terms
18:05of
18:05having
18:05to
18:06skew
18:06more
18:06towards
18:07one
18:07of
18:07the
18:08big
18:08powers
18:08to
18:09ensure
18:10continuous
18:10supply
18:11of
18:11our
18:11energy
18:12whether
18:12it
18:12oil
18:13or
18:14electricity
18:14or
18:15gas
18:15Dr.
18:16Tia
18:16to
18:17what
18:17extent
18:18is
18:18ASEAN
18:18still
18:19dependent
18:19on
18:19the
18:20US
18:20or
18:20China
18:21for
18:21energy
18:22generation
18:23maybe
18:24for
18:24now
18:25the
18:25ASEAN
18:25countries
18:26still
18:27depend
18:27on
18:28energy
18:28from
18:28the
18:28Middle
18:29East
18:29because
18:29as far
18:30we
18:30know
18:30the
18:30Middle
18:31East
18:31have
18:32the
18:33three
18:34roads
18:34number
18:35one
18:35is
18:35the
18:36Suez
18:36Canal
18:36number
18:37two
18:37like
18:38the
18:38Progmizan
18:39mansions
18:40in Yemen
18:42and the
18:43third
18:43is
18:44Hormuz
18:44Street
18:45three
18:45street
18:46this
18:47one
18:47is
18:47very
18:47essential
18:48how
18:49to
18:49energy
18:50from
18:50the
18:50Middle
18:51East
18:51come
18:51to
18:51Asia
18:52especially
18:54for
18:54the
18:54ASEAN
18:55countries
18:56not
18:57withstanding
18:58the
18:58naval
18:59routes
19:00how
19:01dependent
19:01are we
19:02on
19:03the
19:03US
19:03and
19:03China
19:04or
19:04China
19:04in terms
19:05of the
19:06whole
19:06energy
19:06generation
19:07supply
19:07chain
19:08or
19:08ecosystem
19:08because
19:09we're
19:09also
19:09talking
19:09about
19:10technology
19:10we're
19:10also
19:10talking
19:11about
19:11parts
19:12electricity
19:13grid
19:13etc
19:13are we
19:14really
19:15dependent
19:15on
19:15either
19:15US
19:15or
19:16China
19:16because
19:17we need
19:17to look
19:17at
19:17them
19:18as
19:18an
19:18alternative
19:18to
19:19the
19:19now
19:19blocked
19:20routes
19:21of
19:21the
19:21Middle
19:21East
19:22for
19:22oil
19:22yeah
19:23it's
19:23impossible
19:25because
19:26I think
19:27China
19:28and then
19:29the many
19:29countries in the world
19:30still depend on
19:31the energy
19:32and then
19:32maybe for the
19:33solutions
19:34for the next
19:35energy
19:35supply
19:36energy
19:36maybe
19:37the
19:37oil
19:38countries
19:38have to
19:39like the
19:40energy
19:40transitions
19:41you know
19:41like the
19:42renewable energy
19:43but
19:43I think
19:44it's hard
19:44how to build
19:45the
19:45renewable energy
19:46because
19:47for example
19:48in Indonesia
19:48trying to
19:49maybe
19:50transition
19:51energy
19:52from the
19:52fossil
19:53to the
19:54maybe
19:54renewable
19:54energy
19:55like the
19:55wine
19:56energy
19:56like the
19:57solar
19:57panel
19:57energy
19:58and others
19:58but
19:59it's
19:59cost
20:00production
20:00is very
20:01expensive
20:01so
20:03I think
20:04this is
20:04the
20:04maybe
20:05homework
20:05for the
20:06ASEAN
20:07countries
20:07how to
20:07build
20:08the
20:08system
20:08how to
20:09build
20:10the
20:10energy
20:11transitions
20:11so
20:12this is
20:13the
20:13one
20:13solution
20:14how to
20:15the ASEAN
20:15countries
20:15for example
20:16China
20:17including
20:17the
20:18China
20:18I think
20:19so
20:20cannot
20:21depend on
20:22again
20:22to the
20:23maybe
20:23fossil
20:24energy
20:25from the
20:25Middle East
20:26and
20:26the
20:27conflict
20:27show us
20:28that
20:28it's
20:29very
20:29complicated
20:29when the
20:30conflict
20:30happened
20:30in the
20:31Middle East
20:31that
20:31influence
20:32absolutely
20:32to
20:33Asia
20:33China
20:34and
20:35we
20:35we are
20:35we are
20:36in the
20:37ASEAN
20:37countries
20:38and so
20:39Dr.
20:39Bandit
20:39the
20:40ASEAN
20:40power
20:40grid
20:40the
20:41APG
20:41has
20:41often
20:42been
20:42mentioned
20:42as a
20:42long-term
20:43solution
20:43even
20:43way
20:43before
20:44this
20:44whole
20:45conflict
20:45broke
20:45out in
20:46Iran
20:47on
20:48paper
20:48it looks
20:49nice
20:49but
20:50from a
20:50regional
20:50political
20:51perspective
20:52is it
20:53realistic
20:53for
20:5310 to
20:5410
20:54countries
20:54of
20:55ASEAN
20:55to
20:55actually
20:56embark
20:56on
20:56APG
20:57with
20:58the
20:58same
20:58amount
20:59of
20:59investments
20:59not
21:00just
21:00financially
21:00but
21:01also
21:01in
21:01terms
21:01of
21:01spirit
21:02and
21:02political
21:02will
21:04I'm
21:05agree
21:06that
21:08APG
21:08seems to
21:09be
21:09a
21:10very
21:11good
21:12group
21:12but
21:13in
21:13terms
21:13of
21:14implementation
21:15I
21:16think
21:16that
21:16every
21:17country
21:17is
21:18having
21:19a
21:19kind
21:19of
21:20in
21:21this
21:21moment
21:22a
21:23kind
21:23of
21:23self
21:24protection
21:25systems
21:25for
21:28energy
21:29crisis
21:30so
21:31for
21:32Thailand
21:32it is
21:33more likely
21:34to be
21:36a part
21:37of the
21:38emerging
21:39network
21:40for
21:41the
21:42interconnecting
21:43of
21:44the
21:45APG
21:46for
21:47the
21:48politically
21:49of course
21:50but
21:50I'm
21:51also
21:52wonder
21:52that
21:53the
21:53implementation
21:54for
21:54the
21:54sustainable
21:55for
21:57the
21:58ASEAN
21:59power
21:59grid
22:00or the
22:00APG
22:00will be
22:01facing
22:02another
22:03challenge
22:04of the
22:05implementation
22:06for the
22:07policy
22:08maker
22:08now
22:09we look
22:09to
22:09the
22:10whole
22:10of
22:11the
22:11region
22:11that
22:13we
22:14were
22:15facing
22:16of
22:17course
22:17previously
22:18the
22:18COVID-19
22:19now
22:20we
22:20are
22:20facing
22:21the
22:21energy
22:22resources
22:22what
22:24who
22:25is
22:26the
22:26ASEAN
22:28leader
22:28at the
22:29moment
22:29who
22:30can
22:30call
22:31that
22:31we
22:31have
22:32to
22:32be
22:32united
22:33together
22:34you
22:35know
22:35for
22:37surviving
22:38in
22:39this
22:39situation
22:40therefore
22:41I
22:42think
22:42from
22:42my
22:42point
22:43of
22:43view
22:43that
22:44it
22:45need
22:45to
22:45be
22:46a
22:47kind
22:48of
22:48concrete
22:51implementation
22:52that
22:53we
22:55have
22:55to
22:56come
22:56out
22:57and
22:57analyze
22:58what
22:58are
22:59the
22:59bottom
23:00nets
23:00for
23:01the
23:01APG
23:01between
23:02the
23:03members
23:04of
23:05the
23:05ASEAN
23:06right
23:07Professor
23:08Mizan
23:09in a
23:09crisis
23:10situation
23:10especially
23:11to what
23:12extent
23:12will
23:12countries
23:13prioritize
23:14their own
23:14national
23:14interest
23:15as
23:15Dr.
23:16Bandit
23:16mentioned
23:16just
23:16now
23:18how
23:19should
23:20ASEAN
23:21and
23:21the
23:22APG
23:23work
23:24around
23:25the
23:25possible
23:26rise
23:26or
23:27the
23:27wave
23:27of
23:27energy
23:28nationalism
23:29in
23:29ASEAN
23:31yeah
23:32actually
23:34it's
23:35something
23:35very
23:35tricky
23:36not
23:37that
23:37easy
23:38to
23:39achieve
23:39because
23:41of
23:42our
23:43dependency
23:43towards
23:44different
23:45countries
23:46which
23:47is
23:47very
23:47big
23:47also
23:48because
23:48we
23:49have
23:49wildly
23:49different
23:50economic
23:50priorities
23:51and
23:51we
23:51are
23:51at
23:51different
23:51stages
23:52of
23:52economic
23:52development
23:53unlike
23:53the
23:53EU
23:54for
23:54example
23:54yes
23:55right
23:55you
23:56are
23:56right
23:56absolutely
23:56right
23:57for
23:58example
23:58also
23:58Malaysia
23:59even
23:59though
23:59we
23:59are
24:00oil
24:00producer
24:01but
24:01not
24:02that
24:02much
24:02and
24:03quality
24:03also
24:04different
24:04so
24:04we
24:05tend
24:06to
24:06export
24:07more
24:07than
24:08use
24:09for
24:09local
24:09for
24:10domestic
24:10use
24:10and
24:11then
24:11we
24:11import
24:12which
24:12is
24:13a
24:13different
24:13quality
24:14of
24:14oil
24:14for
24:15the
24:15domestic
24:15use
24:16so
24:16also
24:17different
24:18different
24:18countries
24:19for
24:19example
24:19Vietnam
24:20also
24:21Indonesia
24:21so
24:22they
24:23have
24:23a
24:23different
24:24focus
24:25for
24:25their
24:27industry
24:27so
24:28now
24:29to
24:32nationalize
24:33energy
24:33and also
24:34oil
24:35petroleum
24:36for
24:36domestic
24:37use
24:37I
24:38think
24:38it will
24:39left
24:39some
24:40countries
24:40in
24:40a
24:41very
24:41big
24:42problem
24:43because
24:44they are
24:44not ready
24:45to
24:45do that
24:46kind
24:46of
24:46thing
24:46so
24:47I
24:48think
24:48that
24:48can
24:49be
24:49done
24:50but
24:50need
24:50times
24:51something
24:52which
24:52is
24:52we
24:53should
24:54now
24:54back
24:55to
24:55what
24:55I
24:56told
24:56you
24:56in
24:57the
24:57beginning
24:57of
24:58our
24:58discussion
24:58like
24:59I
24:59said
25:00we
25:00should
25:00have
25:01long
25:01term
25:01and
25:02short
25:02term
25:02short
25:03term
25:03now
25:04is
25:04how
25:04to
25:04encounter
25:05the
25:05issue
25:05the
25:05problem
25:06with
25:06all
25:07those
25:07kind
25:07of
25:07initiative
25:08EV
25:10using
25:11coal
25:12for
25:14electricity
25:14work
25:15from
25:16home
25:16less
25:16working
25:17days
25:18all
25:18those
25:19kind
25:19of
25:19things
25:19can
25:19be
25:20done
25:21but
25:22for
25:22the
25:23long
25:23time
25:23yes
25:23I
25:24do
25:24agree
25:25we
25:25can
25:25do
25:26so
25:26called
25:27nationalize
25:28the
25:28energy
25:29or
25:29the
25:30petroleum
25:30those
25:30kind
25:31of
25:31thing
25:31but
25:31some
25:32countries
25:32which
25:33have
25:33no
25:33petroleum
25:34or
25:35not
25:35much
25:35or
25:35they
25:36been
25:36set up
25:37as
25:37the
25:38country
25:38who
25:39meant
25:39for
25:40oil
25:41production
25:41and
25:42for
25:42export
25:42not
25:42for
25:43local
25:44use
25:44so
25:44it
25:45needs
25:45time
25:45and
25:46I
25:46think
25:47there
25:48will
25:48be
25:48another
25:48issue
25:49even
25:49certain
25:50countries
25:51in the
25:51Middle East
25:51right now
25:52also
25:52they
25:52have to
25:53increase
25:53their
25:54oil price
25:56because
25:57of the
25:57global
25:58impact
25:59because
26:00of this
26:00war
26:00despite
26:01despite
26:01the
26:01fact
26:02that
26:02they
26:02are
26:02producers
26:02themselves
26:03yes
26:04yes
26:04they
26:04are
26:04producers
26:05by
26:05themselves
26:05but
26:06the
26:07oil
26:07price
26:07in
26:08I
26:08know
26:08in
26:10UAE
26:10and also
26:11Kuwait
26:12they
26:12are much
26:12higher
26:13than
26:13even
26:13Malaysia
26:13so
26:14this
26:15is
26:15something
26:15which
26:16is
26:16the
26:17whole
26:17world
26:17has
26:17been
26:18meant
26:18in
26:19a
26:19different
26:20way
26:20then
26:20suddenly
26:20if
26:21we
26:21want
26:21to
26:21change
26:22in
26:22need
26:22times
26:22so
26:23we
26:23should
26:24give
26:24ample
26:25time
26:25and
26:26should
26:26be
26:26lies
26:27on
26:27the
26:27long
26:28term
26:28not
26:28on
26:29the
26:29short
26:29term
26:29short
26:30term
26:30need
26:30different
26:31way
26:31to
26:31encounter
26:32this
26:32yeah
26:33right
26:33right
26:33and
26:34so
26:34one
26:34of the
26:34many
26:35initiatives
26:35on
26:36a
26:36country
26:37level
26:37or
26:37on
26:37ASEAN
26:38level
26:38is
26:39the
26:39APG
26:40ASEAN
26:41Power
26:41Grid
26:42and
26:42Dr.
26:43Tia
26:57I'm gonna
26:58put you
26:59a bit
26:59in a spot
27:00here
27:01because
27:02like
27:02many other
27:03ASEAN
27:04initiatives
27:04the APG
27:05has been
27:05slow
27:05it has
27:06faced
27:06challenges
27:07but
27:08in times
27:08of a
27:09crisis
27:09one
27:09of two
27:10things
27:10could
27:10happen
27:11countries
27:12would
27:12finally
27:12kind
27:13of
27:13push
27:14and
27:14nudge
27:14themselves
27:14to
27:16get
27:16over
27:17the
27:17hurdle
27:17and
27:17work
27:18together
27:18because
27:18they
27:18don't
27:19have
27:19choice
27:19or
27:20they
27:21could
27:21even
27:21break
27:22away
27:22even
27:22further
27:23they
27:23could
27:24be
27:25even
27:25more
27:25protectionist
27:26of their
27:26energy
27:27policies
27:28which
27:29one
27:29do you
27:29think
27:30is
27:30more
27:30likely
27:30to
27:30happen
27:31I
27:32think
27:32I
27:33choose
27:33to
27:34maybe
27:34work
27:35together
27:35for
27:36example
27:36between
27:37Indonesia
27:38we have
27:39the good
27:39resource
27:39and
27:40Malaysia
27:40maybe
27:41have
27:41good
27:41technology
27:42to
27:42the
27:43refinery
27:43to
27:44maybe
27:45collaborate
27:45each other
27:46between
27:46Indonesia
27:46and
27:46Malaysia
27:47is
27:47good
27:47not
27:48competitor
27:48I
27:49think
27:49this is
27:49how to
27:50strengthen
27:50this region
27:51how to
27:52strengthen
27:52the
27:52ASEAN
27:53countries
27:53and
27:54Thailand
27:54also
27:55maybe
27:55we can
27:56collaborate
27:56each
27:56other
27:57how to
27:57build
27:58the
27:58system
27:58the
27:59energy
27:59system
27:59here
28:00and
28:00so
28:01the
28:01next
28:01generations
28:02we
28:02cannot
28:02depend
28:03on
28:03again
28:03to
28:04the
28:04resource
28:04from
28:05the
28:05Middle East
28:05to
28:05Asia
28:06to
28:06the
28:06ASEAN
28:07countries
28:07to
28:09Southeast
28:10Asia
28:10I
28:11think
28:12this is
28:12the
28:12maybe
28:13we have
28:14to
28:14maybe
28:15discuss
28:16together
28:16between
28:17our
28:17leaders
28:17our
28:18president
28:18prime
28:19minister
28:19how to
28:20work
28:20together
28:20to
28:21maybe
28:21build
28:22the
28:22energy
28:22system
28:23or
28:23maybe
28:24including
28:24the
28:24renewable
28:25energy
28:25building
28:26like
28:26the
28:27solar
28:27panel
28:27and
28:28then
28:28wind
28:28energy
28:29and
28:29another
28:30resource
28:31to
28:32helping
28:33to
28:34the
28:34economic
28:34development
28:35in
28:35ASEAN
28:36countries
28:36it is
28:37so
28:37I
28:38think
28:38for
28:38the
28:38next
28:39generation
28:39not
28:40only
28:40depend
28:40on
28:40fossil
28:41energy
28:42but
28:42how
28:43to
28:43the
28:43ASEAN
28:44countries
28:44with
28:44the
28:44energy
28:45system
28:45here
28:45in
28:46ASEAN
28:46countries
28:46I
28:47think
28:48the
28:48good
28:49system
28:50good
28:50company
28:51like
28:51the
28:51Petronas
28:51is
28:51good
28:52company
28:52and
28:53appreciate
28:54for
28:54the
28:54Petronas
28:55for
28:56the
28:56last
28:56now
28:56for
28:57the
28:57now
28:58recently
28:58it's
28:59different
29:00with
29:00the
29:00last
29:00decade
29:01I
29:01think
29:01Pertamina
29:02for
29:03example
29:03Indonesia
29:04can
29:05collaborate
29:06and
29:06can
29:06see
29:07how
29:07Petronas
29:08increase
29:09significantly
29:09for
29:11the
29:11system
29:11for
29:11the
29:12technology
29:12maybe
29:13for
29:13the
29:13next
29:14we
29:14can
29:14collaborate
29:15between
29:16Malaysia
29:16Indonesia
29:17Thailand
29:18and
29:19many
29:19countries
29:19in
29:20Southeast
29:20Asia
29:20as
29:21you
29:22mentioned
29:22the
29:22leaders
29:22of
29:23both
29:23our
29:23countries
29:23have
29:24met
29:24Prime
29:24Minister
29:24Anwar
29:25and
29:25President
29:25Papaw
29:25recently
29:26met
29:26and
29:26I'm
29:27sure
29:27that
29:28that's
29:28the
29:29top
29:29of
29:29the
29:30agenda
29:30in terms
29:30of
29:30what
29:31they
29:31were
29:31discussing
29:32but
29:33Dr.
29:34Bandit
29:35why are we
29:36not seeing
29:36this more
29:37on a
29:38regional level
29:38on ASEAN
29:39level
29:39instead of
29:40a
29:40bilateral
29:40country-to-country
29:41level
29:41I
29:43I think
29:43I think
29:44I think
29:44I think
29:45we need
29:46to
29:46analyze
29:48very
29:49strong
29:50concretely
29:52that
29:52we need
29:53the country
29:54leadership
29:55to make
29:56a concrete
29:57initiative
29:58so I think
30:00this
30:00the crisis
30:02we
30:03know
30:04that we
30:04are
30:05big
30:06enough
30:07I mean
30:08that in
30:08terms of
30:09regional
30:12marketing
30:13that can
30:14be
30:14bargaining
30:15what you
30:17call
30:17the
30:17superpower
30:18from both
30:19sides
30:20that you
30:20have been
30:20mentioned
30:21from China
30:22from Europe
30:23from the
30:23West
30:23from the
30:24America
30:24but of course
30:25I think
30:26that this
30:26need to
30:28be
30:28you know
30:29having a
30:30kind of
30:31a leadership
30:32who can
30:33build
30:34the
30:35policy
30:36maker
30:36who can
30:37build
30:37the
30:39government
30:40that
30:41ASEAN
30:42should
30:43concretely
30:44work
30:44together
30:45in terms
30:45of
30:46this
30:46particular
30:47crisis
30:48and the
30:48long-term
30:49planning
30:50for
30:50our
30:52problems
30:53I think
30:53that in
30:54case
30:54that we
30:54are sharing
30:55each other
30:57the expertise
30:58from each
30:58other
30:59I think
31:00that will
31:01be another
31:01scenario
31:02another move
31:03or another
31:04change
31:04of the
31:05our
31:06such
31:06change
31:07in a
31:07different
31:08manner
31:09of course
31:11we need
31:12we need
31:12some
31:13country
31:14like
31:14you know
31:14of course
31:15the
31:16Indonesia
31:17as a
31:18one of the
31:20largest
31:20countries
31:21and also
31:22the human
31:23resources
31:24from Singapore
31:24Malaysia
31:25and Thailand
31:26and of
31:27course
31:27we have
31:28to look
31:28to our
31:29neighbor
31:30that
31:30facing
31:32the
31:33challenges
31:33like
31:34you know
31:34Laos
31:35that they
31:35have
31:36landlocked
31:37and also
31:37Myanmar
31:38these also
31:39you know
31:39producing
31:40the electricity
31:41to Thailand
31:41and this
31:42that's why
31:43you know
31:43Thailand
31:44didn't
31:44you know
31:44supply
31:45oil
31:46and the
31:47phuang to
31:48to
31:49Laos
31:50and Myanmar
31:51as well
31:51yeah
31:52I think
31:53most would
31:53agree
31:54that
31:55working together
31:56is the
31:57ideal way
31:58forward
31:58but
31:58I'm going to
31:59try and play
31:59a bit of a
32:00devil's advocate
32:00role here
32:01a bit more
32:02realist
32:03kind of
32:03Machiavellian
32:04role here
32:04Professor
32:05Mizan
32:06the ASEAN
32:07consensus
32:08ASEAN
32:08centrality
32:09model
32:09may be
32:10good
32:10outside
32:11of a
32:11conflict
32:11maybe even
32:12be
32:12may even
32:12be
32:13effective
32:13outside
32:13of a
32:13conflict
32:14but
32:15in a
32:15crisis
32:15situation
32:16like
32:16this
32:16does
32:17it
32:17cause
32:19us
32:19to be
32:20slow
32:20to
32:21act
32:22yeah
32:23okay
32:24actually
32:25yeah
32:26we are
32:27facing
32:27right now
32:28as one
32:29of the
32:29like
32:30you know
32:30IR
32:31theory
32:32that should
32:32be in
32:33practice
32:33Machiavellian
32:34realism
32:35okay
32:36those kind
32:36of thing
32:37yes
32:37I think
32:39it's more
32:40on
32:41I think
32:41right now
32:42for Asian
32:43it's on
32:43liberalism
32:44which is
32:45they try
32:45to
32:46play with
32:47the thin
32:49line
32:49between
32:50these two
32:50superpowers
32:51which is
32:52the two
32:52blocks
32:52come from
32:53west
32:54and also
32:54east
32:54and for
32:56south east
32:57Asian
32:57or Asian
32:58particularly
32:59they try
32:59to
33:00mental
33:01with
33:02these
33:03two
33:03superpowers
33:04at best
33:06possible
33:06that's
33:07why
33:08we can
33:09see
33:09even
33:10though
33:10our
33:11dependency
33:11towards
33:14Hormuz
33:14trade
33:15also
33:16to the
33:16middle east
33:18oil
33:18which is
33:18very
33:19very big
33:19but
33:20at the
33:20same time
33:21we can
33:21see
33:21some
33:22countries
33:23they are
33:23very clever
33:24in
33:25doing
33:26a good
33:27business
33:28with
33:29these
33:29countries
33:30and
33:31like
33:31Malaysia
33:32for
33:32example
33:32I
33:33think
33:33we
33:34have
33:34to
33:34admit
33:34that
33:35how
33:35smart
33:36the
33:36Prime Minister
33:38Anwar Ibrahim
33:38and get
33:39the clearance
33:41from
33:41Iran
33:42Iranian
33:42government
33:43to
33:43ship
33:44the
33:44oil
33:44tanker
33:45out
33:45from
33:45Hormuz
33:46without
33:46any
33:47issues
33:47and
33:47come
33:48back
33:48to
33:48the
33:48country
33:48and
33:49also
33:49some
33:50countries
33:50also
33:51now
33:51we
33:51can
33:51see
33:52they
33:53already
33:53start
33:53to have
33:54more
33:55talk
33:55and
33:55discussion
33:56towards
33:57the
33:58Iranian
33:59government
33:59the
34:00one
34:00who
34:00hold
34:01the
34:01key
34:01for
34:02Hormuz
34:02trade
34:03and
34:03also
34:04those
34:04who
34:04just
34:05keep
34:05silent
34:06and
34:06don't
34:07do
34:07anything
34:08will
34:08be
34:08in
34:08big
34:08trouble
34:09because
34:10the
34:11oil
34:12that
34:12we
34:12need
34:12is
34:13something
34:13that
34:14essential
34:15it
34:15can
34:16create
34:16a
34:18prosper
34:18and
34:19also
34:19a
34:20good
34:20for
34:20political
34:21situation
34:22for
34:22the
34:22country
34:23and
34:23also
34:23it
34:23might
34:24give
34:24a
34:24very
34:25bad
34:26impact
34:26and
34:27I
34:27think
34:27some
34:28countries
34:28if
34:28we
34:29not
34:29contain
34:30and
34:30the
34:30war
34:30hasn't
34:31stopped
34:31in
34:31a
34:32very
34:32short
34:32period
34:33so
34:33some
34:34countries
34:34might
34:34be
34:34in
34:35big
34:35trouble
34:35chaos
34:36and
34:36the
34:37government
34:37might
34:37be
34:37bring
34:38down
34:38by
34:38the
34:39people
34:39on
34:39the
34:39street
34:40so
34:40I
34:41think
34:41the
34:41best
34:42possible
34:42right
34:42now
34:42is
34:43go
34:43for
34:43liberalism
34:44which
34:44is
34:44we
34:44have
34:44to
34:45be
34:45good
34:46with
34:46Iran
34:46and
34:47at
34:47the
34:47same
34:47time
34:48we
34:48shouldn't
34:48left
34:49the
34:49situation
34:50with
34:51America
34:52and
34:52we
34:53know
34:53that
34:53sometimes
34:58from
34:59the
34:59beginning
34:59of
35:00ART
35:01if
35:01Luqman
35:02remember
35:02I
35:03said
35:03this
35:04is
35:04like
35:04a
35:04one-sided
35:06decision
35:06done
35:07by
35:07Trump
35:08not
35:08by
35:08the
35:08Congress
35:09and
35:09it
35:10might
35:10be
35:11sidelined
35:11by
35:11the
35:11Congress
35:12yet
35:12after
35:12few
35:13years
35:13after
35:13two
35:14years
35:14after
35:14lots
35:15of
35:15energy
35:15lot
35:16of
35:16money
35:16lots
35:17of
35:17time
35:18everything
35:19have
35:19been
35:19spent
35:19and
35:19finally
35:20scrapped
35:20out
35:21by
35:21the
35:21Congress
35:21so
35:22the
35:22same
35:22thing
35:23might
35:23happen
35:23for
35:24this
35:24war
35:24as
35:25well
35:25so
35:25I
35:26think
35:26that's
35:26why
35:26we
35:27should
35:27not
35:27lean
35:28to
35:28any
35:29party
35:29and
35:29we
35:30shouldn't
35:31be
35:31like
35:32a
35:32so-called
35:33realism
35:34which is
35:34we think
35:35that
35:35we are
35:35the best
35:36we can
35:36manage
35:37everything
35:37by
35:37ourselves
35:38but
35:39later on
35:39the
35:40government
35:40might
35:40be
35:40in
35:41big
35:42trouble
35:42so
35:42liberalism
35:43be
35:44good
35:46non-partism
35:47non-block
35:48that
35:49will be
35:49the best
35:50method
35:50to
35:51contain
35:52this
35:52issue
35:52right
35:53now
35:53sure
35:53I
35:54mean
35:54not in
35:54terms
35:55of
35:55each
35:55country
35:56thinking
35:56they're
35:56the
35:56best
35:56but
35:57realism
35:57in
35:57terms
35:57of
35:58the
35:58country
35:58has
35:59or
35:59the
35:59government
35:59has
35:59to
35:59prioritize
36:00its own
36:01national
36:01interests
36:01first
36:02especially
36:02in the
36:02event
36:02that
36:03it
36:03is
36:03perceived
36:04that
36:04said
36:05national
36:05interests
36:06do not
36:07align
36:07with
36:07the
36:08ASEAN
36:08region's
36:09interest
36:09just
36:10one
36:10follow-up
36:10for
36:11you
36:11Prof.
36:11Mizan
36:12yeah
36:13the
36:13balancing
36:13game
36:14is
36:14famous
36:14I
36:15think
36:15ASEAN
36:15Malaysia
36:16collectively
36:17ASEAN
36:17we've
36:18been doing
36:18a very
36:18good
36:18job
36:25I
36:25think
36:25we've
36:25been
36:26job
36:26fun
36:26since
36:26the
36:2660s
36:27zone
36:27of
36:27peace
36:28freedom
36:28and
36:28neutrality
36:29but
36:30in a
36:30world
36:31where
36:32it's
36:33getting
36:33more
36:33unpredictable
36:35do
36:36you
36:36think
36:36it's
36:37too
36:37pessimistic
36:37to
36:37think
36:38that
36:38there's
36:38a
36:38timer
36:39on
36:39that
36:39in
36:40terms
36:40of
36:40we
36:40will
36:40not
36:40be
36:41able
36:41to
36:41do
36:41that
36:42for
36:42that
36:43much
36:43longer
36:44and
36:44ASEAN
36:45or
36:45the
36:45countries
36:45of
36:46ASEAN
36:46would
36:46eventually
36:47be
36:47forced
36:48to
36:48pick
36:49a
36:49side
36:51yeah
36:52this
36:53is a
36:53very
36:54tricky
36:54question
36:54anyway
36:55yeah
36:56I
36:56do
36:57agree
36:57since
36:58the
36:58establishment
36:59of
36:59ASEAN
36:59in
36:591967
37:00and
37:01until
37:01now
37:01yeah
37:02Zokfan
37:02and
37:03also
37:03many
37:04many
37:04more
37:05even
37:05even
37:05nuclear
37:05also
37:06we
37:06have
37:06a
37:07treaty
37:07that
37:08we
37:08want
37:09to be
37:09neutral
37:09from
37:10from
37:10nuclear
37:11energy
37:12things like
37:13that
37:13nuclear
37:13power
37:13so
37:15yeah
37:16we have
37:17so-called
37:17ASEAN
37:18way
37:18the way
37:19that
37:19we deal
37:20with
37:20issues
37:21with
37:21conflict
37:22we
37:23never
37:24like
37:25interfere
37:26the
37:27our
37:28like
37:29a
37:29member
37:30country's
37:31issue
37:31domestic
37:32issue
37:32but
37:33we
37:33try
37:33to
37:34facilitate
37:34at
37:34our
37:35best
37:35capacity
37:35that's
37:36what
37:36the
37:37best
37:37that
37:37we
37:37can
37:37do
37:38until
37:38now
37:39but
37:39I
37:39think
37:39there
37:40are
37:40some
37:40like
37:41you
37:41know
37:42advantages
37:42advantages
37:43of
37:44ASEAN
37:44that
37:44can
37:45be
37:46uplift
37:46to
37:47the
37:47international
37:48level
37:48for
37:49example
37:49how
37:50we
37:50manage
37:51threat
37:52that
37:52come
37:53from
37:53China
37:53for
37:54example
37:54even
37:54though
37:54we
37:56know
37:56China's
37:56intrusion
37:57to
37:58not only
37:59Malaysia
37:59but
38:00Vietnam
38:00Philippines
38:01even
38:02Indonesia
38:02happened
38:04many times
38:04even
38:05Brunei
38:05but
38:06we never
38:06embarked
38:07into
38:07war
38:08between
38:09us
38:10and
38:10China
38:11and
38:11the
38:12disputes
38:12between
38:13Malaysia
38:14Indonesia
38:14Singapore
38:15Thailand
38:16Philippines
38:16happens
38:17for so
38:18many years
38:18and
38:19we
38:19never
38:19embarked
38:20into
38:20the
38:20war
38:20between
38:21countries
38:21as
38:21well
38:21so
38:22how
38:23we
38:23dealt
38:23with
38:24this
38:24kind
38:24of
38:24issue
38:24I
38:25think
38:25is
38:25something
38:25that
38:25can
38:26be
38:27uplift
38:27into
38:28the
38:28international
38:29level
38:29which
38:30is
38:30the
38:30ASEAN
38:31way
38:31how
38:31we
38:32manage
38:33this
38:33kind
38:33of
38:34thing
38:34and
38:34we
38:35remember
38:35how
38:36PM
38:37Anwar
38:37Ibrahim
38:37also
38:37offer
38:38one
38:39to
38:39be
38:39a
38:40mediator
38:40to
38:40help
38:41for
38:41Israel
38:42America
38:43Iran
38:44war
38:44okay
38:45and
38:45also
38:45once
38:46they
38:46also
38:47offer
38:47the
38:47same
38:48thing
38:48to
38:48help
38:48for
38:49Pakistan
38:49India
38:49conflict
38:50as
38:50well
38:50and
38:51then
38:51we
38:51had
38:53an
38:53experience
38:54how
38:54Indonesia
38:55contain
38:56the
38:57Gerakan
38:57Acer
38:58Merdeka
38:58and
38:59how
38:59these
39:00Timor
39:01Leste
39:01get
39:01independence
39:02as
39:02well
39:03as
39:04Philippines
39:05so
39:06with
39:06all
39:06these
39:06kind
39:06of
39:06things
39:07I
39:07think
39:07we
39:07can
39:07bring
39:08something
39:08to
39:08the
39:08upper
39:09level
39:09that
39:09can
39:09be
39:10benefit
39:11for
39:11us
39:11right
39:12Prof
39:13you
39:13plucked
39:13a few
39:13examples
39:14out
39:14of
39:14my
39:14mind
39:14I
39:15think
39:15ASEAN
39:16is
39:16a
39:17good
39:17platform
39:18in
39:18terms
39:19of
39:19being
39:19reactive
39:20to
39:20conflicts
39:21or
39:21would-be
39:22conflicts
39:22the
39:22most
39:23recent
39:23one
39:23being
39:24the
39:24conflict
39:24in
39:24Thailand
39:25and
39:25Cambodia
39:26you
39:27also
39:27have
39:27the
39:28crisis
39:28in
39:28Myanmar
39:28you
39:29also
39:29have
39:29like
39:30you
39:30mentioned
39:30the
39:30movement
39:31of
39:31the
39:31independence
39:32movement
39:32of
39:32Timor
39:33Leste
39:33back in
39:33the day
39:33but
39:35the
39:35criticism
39:35is
39:36that
39:36it's
39:37not
39:37an
39:38effective
39:38platform
39:39for
39:40further
39:41modernization
39:41to move
39:42forward
39:42it's
39:43more
39:43towards
39:44firefighting
39:45if I
39:45may
39:45use
39:46a
39:46crude
39:46word
39:46so
39:47Dr
39:47Tia
39:48the
39:49prevailing
39:49assumption
39:50has always
39:50been
39:50because
39:51we
39:51go
39:51back
39:52to
39:52ASEAN
39:52solidarity
39:52ASEAN
39:53power
39:53grade
39:54how
39:54we
39:54should
39:54navigate
39:55out
39:55of
39:55this
39:55and
39:56look
39:56to
39:56be
39:56self
39:57sustaining
39:57in
39:58terms
39:58of
39:58energy
39:58collectively
39:59as
40:00ASEAN
40:00the
40:01prevailing
40:02thought
40:02has
40:02always
40:02been
40:03because
40:03these
40:04countries
40:04are
40:04not
40:04at
40:05the
40:05same
40:05level
40:06of
40:06economic
40:07advancements
40:08therefore
40:09they
40:09don't
40:09exactly
40:10have
40:11the
40:11same
40:11economic
40:11interests
40:13but
40:14if
40:14we
40:14want
40:15to
40:15use
40:15that
40:16assumption
40:16then
40:17it's
40:17going
40:17to
40:17take
40:18a
40:18long
40:18time
40:18because
40:19Malaysia
40:20will
40:20take
40:20some
40:20time
40:21to
40:21get
40:21to
40:21the
40:21economic
40:21development
40:22level
40:22of
40:22Singapore
40:22for
40:23example
40:23LAW
40:24will
40:24take
40:24a
40:24long
40:24time
40:25to
40:25get
40:25to
40:25the
40:25economic
40:25development
40:26level
40:26of
40:26Malaysia
40:27and
40:27so
40:27on
40:28and
40:28so
40:28forth
40:28so
40:29this
40:30is
40:30obviously
40:30not
40:31something
40:31that
40:31can
40:31be
40:31done
40:32quickly
40:32or
40:33even
40:33fairly
40:33quickly
40:33so
40:34what
40:34else
40:35can
40:35we
40:35do
40:35what
40:36other
40:36motivations
40:36are
40:37there
40:37for
40:38the
40:3810
40:38ASEAN
40:39member
40:39states
40:39to
40:40actually
40:41do
40:42away
40:42with
40:42nationalism
40:43and
40:43start
40:44working
40:44together
40:44because
40:45only
40:45then
40:46are we
40:46really
40:46effective
40:47including
40:47in
40:47this
40:48conflict
40:48including
40:48when it
40:49comes
40:49to
40:49energy
40:49security
40:51okay
40:52I
40:52think
40:52the
40:52solution
40:53is
40:53each
40:54leader
40:54in
40:55ASEAN
40:55have
40:56to pay
40:56attention
40:57and
40:57focus
40:57on
40:58the
40:58regionalism
40:59issues
41:00in
41:01Indonesia
41:04under
41:05the
41:05president
41:05Jokowi
41:06the
41:06situation
41:07is
41:07the
41:09diplomacy
41:10it
41:12means
41:12the
41:13leader
41:14in
41:15one
41:15country
41:16pay
41:16attention
41:16to
41:16regionalism
41:17then
41:18pay
41:18attention
41:18to
41:19another
41:19region
41:20so
41:21maybe
41:21for
41:22the
41:22solutions
41:22next
41:23ASEAN
41:24countries
41:25including
41:26Indonesia
41:27Malaysia
41:28Thailand
41:29and
41:29Philippines
41:30and
41:30others
41:30so
41:31maybe
41:31please
41:32focus
41:32on
41:33the
41:33regionalism
41:34issues
41:34and
41:35how
41:35to
41:35strengthen
41:36the
41:37economic
41:37development
41:38there
41:38such
41:39as
41:39free
41:40visa
41:41for
41:42example
41:42I
41:42think
41:43it is
41:43good
41:43policy
41:44free
41:45visa
41:46and
41:46how
41:46to
41:46secure
41:47the
41:47system
41:48in
41:48ASEAN
41:49and
41:49support
41:50each
41:51other
41:51like
41:52the
41:52second
41:53visa
41:53in
41:53European
41:54countries
41:54so
41:54maybe
41:55we
41:56can
41:56compare
41:57between
41:57the
41:57ASEAN
41:58region
41:58and
41:59European
41:59countries
42:00EU
42:01region
42:01so
42:02I
42:02think
42:03EU
42:03is
42:03good
42:04yeah
42:04and
42:04finally
42:05the
42:05British
42:05exit
42:06from
42:06this
42:06region
42:06I
42:07think
42:07ASEAN
42:08more
42:08solid
42:09than
42:09the
42:09EU
42:10and
42:10maybe
42:11next
42:12maybe
42:13strengthen
42:14the
42:14free
42:14threat
42:14area
42:15export
42:15import
42:15and
42:16others
42:16and
42:17so
42:17all
42:17countries
42:18in
42:18ASEAN
42:18have to
42:19prioritize
42:21ASEAN
42:22first
42:23than
42:24another
42:24region
42:25maybe
42:26this is
42:26my
42:27recommendation
42:28my
42:28suggestion
42:28What are
42:29your
42:29thoughts
42:29Dr.
42:30Bandit
42:30how do
42:31we
42:31how do
42:31we
42:31ensure
42:32that
42:32there's
42:32motivation
42:33despite
42:33probably
42:34clashing
42:35or at
42:35least
42:35inconsistent
42:37national
42:38interest
42:38and economic
42:39levels
42:39of
42:39advancements
42:40take the
42:40APG
42:41for example
42:41where are
42:42the bottlenecks
42:42is it
42:43at the
42:43individual
42:44government
42:44level
42:44or the
42:45policy
42:45level
42:45or
42:46level
42:46of
42:46trust
42:47between
42:47countries
42:48yeah
42:49together
42:50between
42:51the
42:51government
42:52level
42:52and
42:52then
42:52including
42:53the
42:53society
42:54including
42:54the
42:55public
42:55I think
42:56I have
42:57to solid
42:57how to
42:58the
42:58integration
42:58in
42:58ASEAN
42:59countries
42:59not only
42:59from
43:00the
43:00government
43:00level
43:01but
43:01the
43:01public
43:02also
43:02yeah
43:03maybe
43:03like
43:04the
43:04little
43:05bit
43:05issue
43:06like
43:06the
43:06culture
43:07I
43:07think
43:07is
43:08ignore
43:08it
43:09but
43:09we
43:10have
43:10to
43:10solid
43:10to
43:10all
43:11conditions
43:11in
43:12ASEAN
43:12so
43:13I
43:13think
43:13this
43:14is
43:14the
43:14solution
43:14how
43:14to
43:15face
43:15when
43:16the
43:16conflict
43:16happen
43:17in
43:18the
43:18Middle
43:18East
43:19so
43:19I
43:19think
43:19if
43:20the
43:20ASEAN
43:20integrated
43:21is
43:22very
43:22good
43:23so
43:23I
43:23think
43:24the
43:24ASEAN
43:25can
43:25build
43:26very
43:26well
43:26and
43:27can
43:27face
43:28the
43:28conflict
43:29from
43:30the
43:30another
43:30regions
43:31right
43:31Dr.
43:32Bandit
43:32what
43:33about
43:33you
43:33APG
43:34ASEAN
43:34Power Grid
43:34where
43:35are
43:35we
43:35and
43:36where
43:36are
43:36we
43:36not
43:37in
43:37terms
43:38of
43:38bottlenecks
43:38yes
43:40so
43:40I
43:41think
43:42from
43:42the
43:42point
43:43of
43:43view
43:43for
43:44bottlenecks
43:45I
43:45think
43:45that
43:45I
43:46might
43:46suggestion
43:47for
43:48the
43:48key
43:49dimension
43:50first
43:51is
43:51that
43:51we
43:52have
43:52to
43:52analyze
43:54that
43:55the
43:55leadership
43:56we
43:57need
43:57the
43:57leadership
43:58of
43:58ASEAN
43:58then
44:00we
44:00need
44:01the
44:03common
44:05ideology
44:06of
44:07the
44:07ASEAN
44:08and
44:09then
44:09we
44:09need
44:10the
44:10follower
44:11of
44:11ASEAN
44:12it
44:13means
44:13that
44:13from
44:15my
44:15point
44:16of
44:16view
44:16of
44:17course
44:17ASEAN
44:17is
44:18quite
44:18strong
44:19but
44:19this
44:19is
44:19kind
44:20of
44:20loose
44:21connection
44:21between
44:22countries
44:22to
44:23the
44:23countries
44:23of
44:24course
44:24now
44:25when
44:25we
44:26look
44:26to
44:27different
44:29issues
44:30like
44:31the
44:31borders
44:32issues
44:33and
44:34also
44:34especially
44:35for
44:36nowadays
44:37the
44:38sector
44:38between
44:39the
44:39sector
44:40of
44:40border
44:40conflict
44:41between
44:41Thailand
44:42and
44:42Cambodia
44:42is
44:43still
44:43a
44:43little
44:43bit
44:43attention
44:45so
44:45I
44:46think
44:46that
44:46it
44:47is
44:47also
44:47another
44:48scenario
44:49that
44:49ASEAN
44:50should
44:50seriously
44:51take
44:52into
44:53action
44:53that
44:53how
44:54to
44:54settle
44:54of
44:55course
44:55I
44:55think
44:56that
44:56most
44:56of
44:56the
44:57Thai
44:57citizens
44:58and
44:58also
44:59the
44:59ASEAN
45:01will
45:01not
45:01feel
45:03to
45:03see
45:03that
45:04ASEAN
45:04become
45:05the
45:05fire
45:06of
45:07the
45:07border
45:07conflicts
45:08and
45:08also
45:09many
45:09they
45:10cause
45:11a
45:11lot
45:11of
45:12investment
45:13in
45:13terms
45:13of
45:14the
45:14state
45:14security
45:16look
45:17to
45:17this
45:18scenario
45:19now
45:19we
45:20have
45:20to
45:20look
45:20to
45:21things
45:21that
45:22any
45:23happen
45:23to
45:24the
45:24ASEAN
45:25we
45:25have
45:25to
45:26see
45:26that
45:26who
45:27will
45:27be
45:27setting
45:29the
45:29issue
45:30who
45:30will
45:30be
45:30addressing
45:31the
45:31issue
45:32we
45:33need
45:33to
45:33find
45:34out
45:34you
45:35know
45:35the
45:35concrete
45:37solution
45:38for
45:39the
45:40leadership
45:41for
45:41the
45:42ASEAN
45:42solutions
45:43that
45:44everyone
45:44need
45:45to
45:45be
45:45certain
45:46especially
45:47in
45:48this
45:48situation
45:49we
45:49also
45:50thinking
45:50that
45:51for
45:51Thailand
45:52perspective
45:53we
45:54also
45:54thinking
45:54look
45:55more
45:55to
45:56the
45:56east
45:57look
45:59more
45:59to
45:59the
45:59east
46:00means
46:00that
46:00we
46:01will
46:01be
46:01more
46:02realizing
46:02on
46:03the
46:03countries
46:04where
46:05they
46:05are
46:05not
46:05entering
46:06into
46:06the
46:07arms
46:08conflicts
46:09that
46:09will
46:10be
46:10economic
46:14corporations
46:15trade
46:16but
46:17of
46:17course
46:17we
46:17have
46:18to
46:19concern
46:20about
46:20oil
46:21and
46:21gas
46:22that
46:23will
46:23be
46:23another
46:24things
46:25that
46:26everyone
46:28are
46:28facing
46:29so
46:29this
46:30is
46:30the
46:31things
46:32three
46:32criteria
46:33that
46:33the
46:33bottleneck
46:34should
46:35come
46:36up
46:36together
46:37with
46:38at least
46:39these
46:39three
46:40dimensions
46:40right
46:42Prof
46:42Mizan
46:43I think
46:43it's no
46:44secret
46:44that
46:44amongst
46:44the
46:4510
46:45member
46:45states
46:46of
46:46ASEAN
46:47there
46:48are
46:48some
46:48countries
46:48who
46:49skew
46:50more
46:50towards
46:50China
46:51for example
46:51there
46:52are
46:52some
46:52countries
46:52who
46:52skew
46:53more
46:53towards
46:53the
46:54US
46:54despite
46:55our
46:55best
46:55intentions
46:56to
46:56stay
46:56as
46:56neutral
46:57as
46:57possible
46:57but
46:58that's
46:58the
46:59reality
46:59on
46:59ground
46:59today
47:00so
47:01if
47:01we
47:01want
47:02to
47:02actually
47:04put
47:04all
47:05our
47:05chips
47:05in
47:05on
47:05ASEAN
47:06so
47:06to
47:06speak
47:07we
47:07want
47:07to
47:07actually
47:08work
47:09together
47:09better
47:09and
47:10be
47:10fully
47:11self
47:11dependent
47:11at
47:12an
47:12ASEAN
47:13level
47:13does
47:14this
47:15individual
47:17I don't
47:18want to
47:18say
47:18allegiance
47:18but
47:18individual
47:19you
47:20know
47:20inclinations
47:21towards
47:21either
47:22US
47:22China
47:22how
47:23does
47:23this
47:24complicate
47:25us
47:27improving
47:28integration
47:29within
47:30ASEAN
47:30itself
47:31is it
47:31contradictory
47:32does it
47:33make it
47:33more
47:33complicated
47:35okay
47:36I think
47:36we have to
47:38back to
47:38our
47:39ASEAN
47:40spirit
47:40so
47:42since
47:43independence
47:44and since
47:45the establishment
47:45of ASEAN
47:46until now
47:47there are
47:48lots of
47:48talk
47:49and also
47:50agreement
47:51plan
47:51and
47:52whatsoever
47:52have been
47:53laid down
47:53and I
47:54think
47:56we
47:57still
47:57I think
47:58we still
47:58need to
47:58maintain
47:59our
47:59good
48:00relationship
48:00with
48:01both
48:01bloc
48:02which
48:02is
48:03east
48:03and
48:03also
48:03west
48:04but
48:04at
48:04the
48:05same
48:05time
48:05I
48:06think
48:06these
48:06three
48:06things
48:06have
48:07to
48:07be
48:07strengthened
48:07the
48:08first
48:09one
48:09is
48:09we
48:10have
48:10our
48:10framework
48:11called
48:11ASEAN
48:12Framework
48:13Agreement
48:13on
48:14Petroleum
48:14Security
48:15or
48:15APSA
48:16so
48:17this
48:17one
48:17have
48:18to
48:18be
48:18strengthened
48:18again
48:19so
48:19between
48:20ASEAN
48:21countries
48:21we
48:22should
48:22go
48:22further
48:24like
48:24European
48:25Union
48:26for example
48:26or
48:28Middle
48:29Eastern
48:29countries
48:29or
48:30whatever
48:30that
48:30which
48:31is
48:31the
48:31block
48:31is
48:32not
48:32only
48:32talking
48:32about
48:33cultural
48:35cooperation
48:37language
48:37cooperation
48:38security
48:39cooperation
48:39but
48:40now
48:40we
48:40should
48:40go
48:40to
48:41petroleum
48:41and
48:42also
48:42energy
48:43cooperation
48:43between
48:44countries
48:44second
48:45we
48:46have
48:46to
48:46also
48:46strengthen
48:47again
48:47about
48:48the
48:48APG
48:48which
48:49is
48:49ASEAN
48:50Power
48:50Grid
48:50which
48:51has been
48:51mentioned
48:51in
48:52our
48:52last
48:54widely
48:54discussed
48:55our
48:55last
48:56ASEAN
48:56meeting
48:56and I
48:57think
48:57it
48:57should
48:57be
48:58strengthened
48:58again
48:58in
48:59our
48:59next
48:59meeting
49:00as
49:00well
49:00so
49:00this
49:01one
49:02have
49:02to
49:02be
49:02accelerated
49:03I
49:03think
49:03we
49:04need
49:04to
49:04be
49:04prepared
49:05with
49:06this
49:06current
49:06situation
49:07geopolitical
49:08situation
49:08looks
49:09like
49:09this
49:10thing
49:10should
49:10be
49:10at
49:11front
49:11we
49:11need
49:12to
49:12be
49:12prepared
49:13to
49:13be
49:13ready
49:14and
49:14we
49:14have
49:15to
49:15also
49:16embark
49:17on
49:17not
49:18only
49:19fossil
49:20fuel
49:21as
49:21a
49:21main
49:22energy
49:23for
49:24producing
49:26the
49:26power
49:28but
49:28using
49:29the
49:29green
49:29technology
49:30renewable
49:31technology
49:32coal
49:33as
49:33alternative
49:34as well
49:35and
49:35also
49:36the
49:36nuclear
49:37which is
49:38nuclear
49:38energy
49:39also
49:40need
49:40to be
49:40discussed
49:41and
49:42the
49:42third
49:42one
49:42I
49:43think
49:43we
49:43need
49:44to
49:44go
49:44back
49:44to
49:44our
49:44one
49:45of
49:45our
49:45key
49:46discussion
49:47among
49:47ASEAN
49:48which
49:48is
49:48Trans-ASEAN
49:52gas
49:53pipeline
49:54which
49:55is
49:55we
49:55already
49:56now
49:57we
49:57have
49:57between
49:58Thailand
49:58and
49:59also
49:59Malaysia
49:59how
50:00we
50:01share
50:01the
50:02gas
50:02between
50:03two
50:04countries
50:04and
50:04it
50:05should
50:05be
50:05also
50:06goes
50:06beyond
50:07that
50:07which
50:07is
50:07up
50:08to
50:08Myanmar
50:08Laos
50:09Thai
50:09Cambodia
50:10and
50:11then
50:11we
50:11go
50:11to
50:11Singapore
50:12and
50:12also
50:12Indonesia
50:13so
50:14if
50:14we
50:14can
50:15strengthen
50:15at
50:16least
50:16these
50:17three
50:17thing
50:17main thing
50:18issue
50:18and
50:19I
50:19think
50:19we
50:19will
50:19be
50:20ready
50:20for
50:20the
50:21upcoming
50:21problems
50:22and
50:22geopolitik
50:23conflict
50:24and
50:24what
50:24so
50:24yeah
50:25right
50:26Dr. Tia
50:28I think
50:28as I've
50:29mentioned
50:29just now
50:31conflicts can
50:32either
50:32bring out
50:33the best
50:34in us
50:34or the worst
50:35in us
50:35right
50:36it's either
50:36we band
50:36together
50:37more
50:37or
50:38every man
50:38for himself
50:39I mean
50:39that's
50:39just being
50:40realistic
50:40but
50:40we want
50:40to be
50:41optimistic
50:41right
50:41so
50:42sometimes
50:43hard times
50:44pushes
50:45to do
50:45something
50:46that probably
50:46we didn't
50:47want to do
50:47before
50:48because we
50:48have no
50:48choice
50:49right
50:49so
50:50how
50:51optimistic
50:52or pessimistic
50:53are you
50:54that this
50:55recent
50:55conflict
50:55would
50:56finally
50:56give the
50:57nudge
50:57for each
50:58ASEAN
50:58leader
50:59to maybe
50:59do away
51:01with the
51:01national interest
51:02to a certain
51:02extent
51:03and
51:03really
51:04pursue
51:05meaningful
51:05ASEAN
51:06integration
51:07whether
51:07be it
51:07from the
51:08energy
51:08security
51:09side
51:09or
51:09any
51:10other
51:10perspective
51:10yeah
51:12I think
51:13so-so
51:13between
51:14pessimistic
51:16and
51:16optimistic
51:17because
51:18you know
51:19Mas Lukman
51:20for example
51:21yesterday
51:22maybe
51:22the PM
51:24Malaysia
51:25meeting
51:26with
51:26our
51:27president
51:27Prabowo
51:28and
51:29this one
51:30show us
51:30that
51:31maybe
51:31discuss
51:32together
51:32between
51:32our
51:33leaders
51:33because
51:34the
51:34Malaysia
51:34finally
51:36allowed
51:37it
51:37by
51:37the
51:37Iran
51:38Malaysia
51:39ship
51:39pass
51:41to
51:41Harpur
51:42Street
51:43and
51:43finally
51:44Indonesia
51:44is
51:45failed
51:45unfortunately
51:46and
51:47this one
51:47the
51:47engagement
51:48diplomatic
51:48relations
51:49within
51:49Malaysia
51:50and
51:50Iran
51:50is
51:51good
51:51relations
51:52and
51:52our
51:52government
51:53have
51:53to
51:54maybe
51:54learn
51:54from
51:55the
51:55European
51:55so
51:56this
51:57one
51:57maybe
51:58yeah
51:59I
51:59mentioned
52:00again
52:00this
52:00is
52:00the
52:01social
52:0150-50
52:02optimistic
52:03and
52:03pessimistic
52:04because
52:05the
52:05defense
52:06on
52:06leader
52:06in
52:06each
52:07country
52:07I
52:07think
52:07your
52:08leader
52:08for
52:09this
52:09conflict
52:10I
52:11think
52:13it's
52:14smart
52:14because
52:15how to
52:16create
52:17the
52:17diplomatic
52:17relation
52:18with
52:18Iran
52:19and
52:20finally
52:20success
52:21and
52:22Iran
52:22allowed
52:23Malaysia
52:23ship
52:24to
52:25pass
52:25the
52:25Hormuz
52:26Strait
52:26and
52:27how
52:27about
52:27the
52:28ship
52:29from
52:29Indonesia
52:29we
52:31are
52:31honestly
52:32we are
52:32disappointed
52:33with
52:33our
52:34policy
52:35and
52:36this
52:36one
52:36maybe
52:37political
52:37interest
52:39in
52:39each
52:39country
52:39in
52:40ASEAN
52:41and
52:41this
52:42is
52:42the
52:42reason
52:42why
52:42I
52:42mentioned
52:43so
52:43so
52:4350-50
52:44because
52:45I
52:45think
52:45this
52:45is
52:45related
52:46to
52:46the
52:46maybe
52:47the
52:48decisions
52:48of
52:49our
52:49leader
52:50I
52:51appreciate
52:51your
52:51honest
52:51answer
52:52but
52:52I
52:52think
52:52this
52:52highlights
52:52again
52:53the
52:53need
52:53to
52:54sometimes
52:54move
52:54as a
52:55block
52:55right
52:55if
52:56you
52:56can't
52:56if
52:56moving
52:57individually
52:57doesn't
52:58get you
52:58anywhere
52:59meaningful
52:59you have
52:59to
52:59move
53:00as a
53:00block
53:00I
53:00think
53:00this
53:01discussion
53:01came
53:01about
53:02when
53:02Trump
53:03first
53:03introduced
53:04a
53:04terrorist
53:04for
53:04example
53:05whether
53:05we
53:05need
53:05to
53:05move
53:06together
53:06as a
53:06block
53:07but
53:08Dr.
53:09Bandit
53:09the same
53:09question
53:10to
53:10you
53:10might
53:10you
53:10be
53:11more
53:11optimistic
53:12or pessimistic
53:13that ASEAN
53:14will finally
53:14kind of
53:15nudge
53:16itself
53:16more
53:18meaningfully
53:18forward
53:19following
53:19this
53:19conflict
53:19I
53:20think
53:21that
53:21it
53:21should
53:22be
53:22ASEAN
53:23should
53:23call
53:24the
53:24emergency
53:24meeting
53:25in
53:26order
53:26to
53:27find
53:28out
53:29the
53:31concrete
53:32unity
53:33especially
53:34for
53:35this
53:36cooperation
53:37of the
53:38energy
53:38crisis
53:39yes
53:40they haven't
53:40right
53:40as of
53:41now
53:41yes
53:42of course
53:43and then
53:44we need
53:44to
53:45follow up
53:47the
53:48implementation
53:48of course
53:49that
53:50what
53:50we
53:50can
53:51sharing
53:51the
53:52cooperation
53:52between
53:53the
53:53ASEAN
53:54member
53:54for
53:55Thailand
53:55also
53:56looking
53:57after
53:57some
53:58of
53:59the
53:59analysis
54:00from
54:00Thailand
54:00now
54:01try
54:02to
54:02propose
54:03that
54:03of course
54:03now
54:04we
54:04are
54:04truck
54:04to
54:05the
54:05coming
54:06of
54:07the
54:07state
54:07of
54:08Hormuz
54:09and
54:10the
54:10analysis
54:11from
54:12Thailand
54:14tries
54:15to
54:15suggest
54:16the
54:16government
54:16that
54:17why
54:18not
54:18we
54:18deal
54:18with
54:19Iran
54:20and
54:20waving
54:21from
54:22the
54:22American
54:22at
54:23least
54:23to
54:23have
54:24survival
54:25in
54:26these
54:26situations
54:27that's
54:28why
54:29we
54:29need
54:30to
54:31think
54:32that
54:32come
54:33up
54:33that
54:33in
54:33terms
54:33of
54:34the
54:34ASEAN
54:34block
54:34means
54:36talking
54:37with
54:37both
54:39of
54:39the
54:39parties
54:40that
54:41can
54:41be
54:42seeing
54:42the
54:43opportunity
54:44because
54:44I
54:44think
54:45that
54:45America
54:46and
54:47also
54:47Iran
54:48may be
54:49interest
54:49to
54:49the
54:50ASEAN
54:50as
54:50well
54:51in
54:51many
54:52other
54:52issues
54:53we
54:53have
54:54to
54:54look
54:54after
54:55to
54:55ourselves
54:55that
54:56what
54:56is
54:56the
54:56prominent
54:57and
54:57what
54:57is
54:58the
54:58good
54:58thing
54:58that
54:58we
54:59can
55:00be
55:00all
55:01together
55:01and
55:01be
55:03negotiating
55:03for
55:04our
55:04own
55:05benefit
55:05as
55:06a
55:06whole
55:06of
55:06the
55:06regions
55:07so
55:08I
55:08think
55:08that
55:08this
55:08should
55:09be
55:09an
55:10initiative
55:11in
55:12terms
55:12of
55:13protecting
55:13ourselves
55:14right
55:15thank you
55:16so much
55:17Dr.
55:17Bandit
55:17Kapungkap
55:18terima kasih
55:19Prof.
55:19Mizan
55:20and
55:20Dr.
55:20Tia
55:21I
55:21would
55:22love
55:22for
55:22this
55:22conversation
55:23to
55:23have
55:23at
55:24least
55:24half
55:24hour
55:25more
55:26but
55:26time
55:27and
55:27basis
55:27maybe
55:28we'll
55:28get
55:28next
55:30session
55:30moving
55:31forward
55:31because
55:31we'll
55:32definitely
55:32continue
55:32to
55:32monitor
55:33and
55:33update
55:33developments
55:34in
55:35West
55:36Asia
55:36in
55:36the
55:36Middle
55:36East
55:37and
55:37how
55:37it
55:37affects
55:38ASEAN
55:38energy
55:39security
55:39once
55:40again
55:40thank you
55:40Dr.
55:40Bandit
55:41Aroman
55:41head
55:41of
55:41political
55:42science
55:42and
55:42lecturer
55:43of
55:43security
55:44and
55:44peace
55:44management
55:45at
55:45Kirk
55:45University
55:45Thailand
55:46Professor
55:46Mizan
55:47Aslam
55:47is
55:48an
55:48international
55:49security
55:49expert
55:50and
55:50Dr.
55:51Tia
55:51Mariatul
55:51Kiptia
55:52is
55:52an
55:52international
55:53relations
55:53expert
55:54at
55:54BINUS
55:54University
55:55Indonesia
55:55Thank
55:56you
55:56for
55:56watching
55:56Dialog
55:573
55:57penjuru
55:58See you
55:59later
56:07you
Comments