Join our distinguished panel as they unpack the key takeaways from the 46th ASEAN Summit - exploring strategies and shared aspirations that aim to future-proof the region. From navigating economic uncertainties to responding to shifting geopolitical dynamics, this episode dives into how ASEAN is charting a united path toward its Vision 2045.
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02:16So Malaysia also pushed for a more action-oriented approach on Myanmar,
02:20including suggestions for permanent ASEAN Special Envoy.
02:25That was also the inaugural ASEAN GCC China Summit,
02:28which I'm sure we can talk about later.
02:30It's quite unprecedented for first summit of the year
02:33and that actually signifies ASEAN's growing ambition
02:36to actually diversify its partnership.
02:40So I would say that overall this summit shows that ASEAN
02:43is trying to match long-term vision.
02:46with the real-world action.
02:48Faisal, what about you?
02:50Your key takeaways from the summit?
02:51Yeah, thank you.
02:52I think one of the most important things is that,
02:55as like Joanne said,
02:56it's more about how to basically having a 20-year future plan.
03:01But more importantly, I think economically,
03:04ASEAN leaders finally agreed to basically enhance intratrade
03:08or intra-regional trade and investment
03:10because as you can see with the rise of Trump 2.0,
03:14seemingly ASEAN we thought is a kind of one cohesive organization.
03:20But it turns out when Trump asked for unilateral negotiation,
03:26suddenly all of the ASEAN members seemingly run for themselves.
03:31So in a way, I think it's kind of interesting to see how finally ASEAN need to agree
03:39on the necessity of enhancing intra-regional trade.
03:43And also, I think, as Joanne said, forward thinking,
03:48let's discuss about new venue of economic cooperation,
03:55such as green finance, which is very much overlooked,
03:58digital transformations as well.
03:59And more importantly, I think supply chain connectivity,
04:02given the fact that seemingly ASEAN country has been very much incorporated
04:07into China's sphere of supply chain,
04:10while supply chain currently has been weaponized.
04:12So in a way, understanding how this supply chain resilience
04:17needs to be also put on board,
04:19I think that I can add to this kind of a key takeaway.
04:23Thank you.
04:25Dizzy, what do you make of this?
04:26What stood out to you the most from the summit?
04:29Yeah, thank you, Naila.
04:31The ASEAN Summit sent a strong message of strategic autonomy.
04:34I think, like Joanne and Faisal mentioned about the most important thing
04:41is the launch of ASEAN 2045 mission.
04:45And also, there's a further effort to deepen internal trade and investment
04:49by making priority on initiatives like Digital Economy Framework Agreement,
04:54and also the upgrade of the ASEAN Trade in Goods Agreement.
04:57and also the effort to diversify a partnership beyond major powers,
05:04such as engagement with the Gulf Corporation Council in China.
05:10And also, the ASEAN leaders also reaffirmed its principle of neutrality
05:15while staying active, engaged in global economic system.
05:19And also, on the regional stability and expansion,
05:24the ASEAN Summit also tried to overcome Myanmar crisis,
05:30even though, yeah, there are still many things to do.
05:32And also, the discussion or the membership expansion,
05:38Timor-Leste was officially a welcome
05:41as the ASEAN 11 members,
05:44and also discussion were initiated
05:46regarding the Papua New Guinea potential membership
05:49to strengthen the bloc's global influence.
05:52I think that's some might take away.
05:56Before we look at the next 20 years,
05:59and of course, we want to focus on the ASEAN Community Vision,
06:02before that, maybe we can reflect a little bit
06:04on what has happened in the past.
06:06The ASEAN Community Vision 2045,
06:08of course, we know replaces the ASEAN 2025 document
06:11Forging Ahead Together,
06:13which was adopted 10 years back in 2015,
06:16thus guiding the overall development of ASEAN,
06:20where it's been headed for the past decade.
06:23So, what, I guess I want to ask Joanne this,
06:26what do you make of the past 10 years,
06:28some of the milestones?
06:29What has or hasn't been achieved with ASEAN 2025?
06:33Right, so I believe that the ASEAN Community Vision 2025
06:37really laid out an important foundation
06:40for deepening regional integration over the past decade.
06:43So, it helps to actually solidify the three community pillars,
06:46which are the political security, economic, and social culture,
06:50and actually had guided ASEAN through a relatively,
06:53I would say, stable period marked by institutional consolidation
06:56and norms building.
06:59So, during this period,
07:00I think ASEAN has actually achieved some great key milestones,
07:04including the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, RCEP,
07:09and strengthening a general cooperation on non-traditional security
07:12like disaster response, counter-terrorism,
07:15and also, of course, laying the groundwork
07:17for greater social-cultural connectivity.
07:20But I would also say that the last or the past decade
07:24has also exposed some limitations of ASEAN
07:28because ASEAN struggled to respond decisively
07:31to very fast-moving geopolitical tensions
07:34like the South China Sea and the Myanmar crisis.
07:38So, while the 2025 vision helped to anchor ASEAN's community building,
07:43I think it also revealed, actually,
07:45the need for a more adaptive and strategic framework,
07:48and that is actually what the new vision 2045
07:51is aiming to address.
07:53But in general, I think ASEAN has done well
07:56for its community building and consolidation.
08:00Faisal, earlier you mentioned about
08:02greater, deeper, regional financial integration
08:06or intra-regional integration.
08:09If you want to look and reflect a little bit on the past
08:12or where we're at currently,
08:14is there still a long way to go?
08:16What has been some of the success or gaps
08:18in the past 10 years
08:19when we're talking about financial integration?
08:22Well, definitely.
08:23I mean, as usual, a blueprint is just a kind of a vision
08:27that we want to achieve, right?
08:29The planning approach, there is a, you know,
08:31the blueprint is beautifully written
08:34about how to increase economic, political,
08:37social, cultural security,
08:39and also there is also strategic ambition.
08:41You know, we heard about, you know,
08:44ASEAN master plan on connectivity.
08:46and also in terms of monitoring,
08:50I think ASEAN 2025 has a scorecard already,
08:54self-assessment.
08:55But the problem is, you know,
08:57despite of this nicely, beautifully written vision,
09:01at the end of the day,
09:02it's all about implementations, right?
09:04And how we need to achieve this scorecard.
09:07And I think, I agree,
09:09despite of that limitation,
09:11we see for the past 20 years,
09:13ASEAN can actually consolidate a lot of things,
09:17our CEP, you know, ASEAN plus one,
09:19ASEAN plus three, and so on and so forth.
09:21And somehow we can, you know,
09:23despite of issue of COVID-19
09:26and how this led to kind of a rivalry among us
09:31in terms of, you know,
09:33building our own resilience,
09:34but at the end of the day,
09:35we finally able to move it as a one community.
09:40but I think I need to highlight the thing
09:43that we need to understand
09:45is that the shift on the geo-economy,
09:49you know, we never heard about,
09:51you know, Indo-Pacific prior to this
09:52because when ASEAN 2025 is being created,
09:56we thought that, you know,
09:58the so-called multipolar order
10:00has will be put in place, you know,
10:02and China will be rise peacefully,
10:04but it turns out it's not as we expect.
10:07and then somehow there is a pushback
10:08from the external power,
10:10especially with the creations
10:11of seemingly organization
10:13or platform that undermine ASEAN.
10:16And in a way, I think,
10:18despite all that external challenges
10:20and the rise of, you know,
10:23minilateral platform,
10:24I think ASEAN as a one
10:27can basically response to that.
10:29We heard about ASEAN outlook
10:30on Indo-Pacific.
10:32So despite of the planning
10:34and then the planning seemingly
10:36doesn't really engage
10:37with those kinds of issues,
10:40we can basically flexibly,
10:42you know, try to figure out,
10:43navigate and somehow manage
10:45our ASEAN centrality.
10:46And I think we always emphasize
10:48in inclusivity, cooperation,
10:49despite of the pressure
10:50to take a side.
10:53And I don't know,
10:53for the next 20 years,
10:54will we need to take a side?
10:56That will be a good question
10:58that ASEAN policymakers
10:59needs to answer.
11:01A lot of points there
11:04that we want to unpack.
11:06Was it Joanne?
11:07Did you have something to say, Joanne?
11:10Yes.
11:11I mean, I actually agree
11:12with Faisal on what he said
11:14because, you know,
11:16right now the world
11:17that we are living in
11:18is changing very fast.
11:19And of course, ASEAN needs to adapt.
11:22We can't actually keep
11:23to the previous mode
11:24of like, you know,
11:26consensus making decision,
11:28making process,
11:30you know, that sort of thing.
11:32So I guess like,
11:34unlike the more integrated focus
11:36and the inward-looking vision
11:38of 2025,
11:39I think this new framework,
11:41actually, the Vision 2045,
11:43actually recognize
11:44that ASEAN is now operating
11:46in a far more fractured
11:47and uncertain global landscape,
11:49exactly what Faisal said.
11:51So it's about transformation.
11:53It's not only about
11:54community building.
11:55So therefore,
11:56I think that it needs
11:57to be a stronger focus
11:58on institutional reform.
12:01ASEAN needs to project
12:03its relevance,
12:04you know,
12:04on the global stage.
12:05So I would agree
12:07that the substance
12:08is all there,
12:09you know,
12:09but whether member states
12:10will have the political will
12:12and the collective discipline
12:13to deliver on it,
12:15like, you know,
12:16it's the key question.
12:18As Faisal,
12:19you said,
12:20implementation
12:20is as important
12:22as, you know,
12:23having a lot of documents
12:24or a lot of statements.
12:26Yeah, again,
12:29a lot of interesting points
12:30there.
12:31The fact that implementation
12:32is quite contingent
12:35on political will
12:36and discipline
12:37as you mentioned,
12:38Joanne,
12:38because if we were
12:38to rely on authority,
12:41on policies
12:42or legally binding
12:43institutions,
12:44there aren't any.
12:45There's no authoritative body,
12:47right?
12:47But before we go to that,
12:49Daisy,
12:49any thoughts on this?
12:51You know,
12:52reflecting on the past
12:53and now the main problem
12:54seems to be implementation,
12:56right?
12:57You can come up
12:57with the fanciest document
12:58there is,
12:59but will it actually
13:00get done?
13:02What do you think,
13:02Daisy?
13:03Yes,
13:04I agree with Joanne
13:05and Faisal.
13:07The implementation
13:07is still a problem
13:08because
13:09yeah,
13:11they are
13:11different countries,
13:13different regulatory,
13:14different framework
13:15and even development
13:17across member states.
13:18so that's a problem.
13:19We have Singapore,
13:20we have Myanmar,
13:22we have,
13:22yeah,
13:23we are different.
13:24But still,
13:25I think
13:26ASEAN
13:28quite successful
13:30in integration
13:31with the RCP
13:33and also
13:34with the ASEAN Plus.
13:37I think
13:38that's,
13:38I think
13:39in trade
13:41we
13:43quite successful
13:44but we have
13:44so many homework
13:45to do
13:46especially
13:47how to integrate
13:48different situation
13:51in different countries.
13:54Faisal,
13:54going back to that,
13:55you mentioned
13:56this greater need
13:57for consolidation,
13:58right?
13:59And Joanne
14:00was touching on
14:01political will
14:02and discipline
14:04but
14:04could we imagine
14:06greater authority
14:07or something
14:08that's more binding
14:09to act as an incentive
14:11or perhaps
14:12a mix of
14:12a carrot and stick
14:13for member states
14:14to actually keep
14:15to their word?
14:16Yeah,
14:17I think
14:17it's a kind
14:17of a
14:18long,
14:19old debate
14:20on ASEAN
14:21whether we need
14:22to operate
14:22in a consensus
14:24base,
14:25in a very
14:25what we call
14:26a soft law
14:27or soft
14:28institutionalizations
14:29and I think
14:31partly people
14:32might argue
14:33that that's
14:33what makes
14:34ASEAN works
14:35because
14:36we try
14:37to come up
14:38with things
14:39that everyone
14:40agreed on
14:41but the
14:41problem
14:41is
14:42with the
14:44growing
14:44increasing
14:45fracture
14:47and fragmentation
14:48I think
14:48I agree
14:49it's not
14:49really
14:49feasible
14:50so
14:50whether
14:51the question
14:51is
14:52is it
14:52possible
14:52I think
14:53it is
14:53and how
14:54can we
14:54start
14:55from strengthening
14:57the secretariat
14:59that's the first
15:00thing
15:00because
15:00as of now
15:01secretariat
15:02is just
15:03a kind
15:03of a body
15:04that basically
15:05supporting
15:06whatever agenda
15:07that created
15:09by a member
15:10state
15:10so having
15:11a stronger
15:12and more
15:13institutionalized
15:14secretariat
15:14will be
15:15the first
15:16step
15:18to do so
15:19not necessarily
15:19the main
15:21important one
15:21I think
15:22secondly
15:23I think
15:24the most
15:25important one
15:25perhaps
15:26was to
15:27make sure
15:27that
15:28in terms
15:29of normative
15:30or institution
15:31we can
15:32basically
15:32create
15:33a kind
15:34of
15:34institution
15:36whereby
15:37all of
15:38the
15:39member
15:40state
15:40that may
15:41not
15:41part
15:43of
15:43the
15:44agenda
15:45being
15:46agreed
15:47on
15:47and
15:48somehow
15:48seemingly
15:50co-opted
15:51for instance
15:52by external
15:53power
15:53can be
15:54basically
15:55not penalized
15:58in a sense
15:58but more
15:59about
15:59being
16:02made
16:04to be
16:05in line
16:05perhaps
16:06it's really
16:07difficult
16:07but at least
16:07for instance
16:08we can
16:09come up
16:09with
16:09with a
16:10stronger
16:11cohesive
16:12ministry
16:14level
16:15institution
16:17or platform
16:18that able
16:18for us
16:19to share
16:20more
16:20information
16:22perhaps
16:22that might
16:23be the
16:24case
16:24but the
16:25bottom line
16:26is that
16:26I think
16:27leader of
16:28ASEAN
16:28should
16:29really have
16:30the same
16:31vision
16:31in a way
16:32that we
16:33should be
16:34one
16:34instead of
16:35representing
16:36other
16:37major
16:37power
16:37interests
16:40yeah
16:42Joanne
16:43what do
16:44you think
16:44about this
16:44is it
16:45possible
16:45and how
16:46would it
16:46realistically
16:46look like
16:47so I
16:48think
16:48Faisal
16:48has made
16:49many
16:50interesting
16:50points
16:51and I
16:51think
16:51they are
16:52very
16:52important
16:52points
16:53so ASEAN
16:54has always
16:54operated
16:54on a
16:55consensus
16:55based
16:56model
16:56so with
16:57no
16:57supranational
16:58authority
16:59so while
17:01the ASEAN
17:02Economic
17:02Community
17:03Council
17:03and the
17:04ASEAN
17:04Secretariat
17:05which Faisal
17:05has mentioned
17:06are tasked
17:07with the
17:07implementation
17:08and monitoring
17:08I think
17:09their mandates
17:09are actually
17:10very limited
17:11so the
17:12secretariat
17:12in particular
17:13has very
17:13modest
17:14resources
17:14and no
17:15real
17:15enforcement
17:16power
17:16so even
17:17the best
17:18strategic
17:18plans
17:19in this
17:20case
17:20will risk
17:21falling
17:22short
17:22without
17:22the
17:23very
17:23strong
17:24sort
17:24of
17:24a
17:25national
17:26commitment
17:26so there
17:27is definitely
17:28a growing
17:28recognition
17:29that if
17:29ASEAN
17:30wants to
17:30deepen
17:31economic
17:32integration
17:32meaningfully
17:33especially
17:34in very
17:35complex
17:35sector
17:36which Faisal
17:36has mentioned
17:37earlier
17:37like financial
17:38services
17:39or even
17:40taxation
17:40or digital
17:41trade
17:42I think
17:42it may
17:43need to
17:43empower
17:44a more
17:44authoritative
17:45sort of
17:46a
17:46coordinating
17:46body
17:47to
17:47significantly
17:48strengthen
17:49the
17:50secretariat's
17:51role
17:51but
17:51politically
17:52I think
17:53that's still
17:53a very
17:54sensitive
17:54issue
17:55within
17:55ASEAN
17:56because
17:56member
17:56states
17:57are very
17:57cautious
17:58about
17:58ceding
17:58their
17:59sovereignty
17:59right
18:00so
18:01you know
18:01any shift
18:02would have
18:02been
18:03have to
18:03be very
18:04incremental
18:04and it
18:05has to
18:06be built
18:07on trust
18:07it cannot
18:08be a
18:08reform
18:09that you
18:09take
18:09overnight
18:10it needs
18:10to be
18:11step
18:11by step
18:12as Faisal
18:13said
18:14ASEAN
18:14should
18:14act
18:15as
18:15one
18:16but
18:16going
18:16back
18:17to
18:17what
18:17we
18:17talked
18:17about
18:18earlier
18:18and
18:18with
18:18what
18:18Daisy
18:19mentioned
18:19as
18:19well
18:20there's
18:20so much
18:21diversity
18:21so much
18:22variation
18:23heterogeneity
18:25if I may
18:26in the
18:27regulatory
18:28frameworks
18:28the sort
18:29of economic
18:30market
18:30diversification
18:31that we're
18:31seeing
18:32across
18:32the entire
18:33region
18:33so
18:34here
18:34we're
18:35seeing
18:35this
18:35balancing
18:36act
18:37right
18:37between
18:37acting
18:38in unison
18:39this
18:39need
18:39for
18:40unity
18:40to
18:40act
18:41as
18:41one
18:41but
18:41also
18:42to
18:42celebrate
18:43this
18:43diversity
18:43and
18:44variation
18:45Daisy
18:46how do
18:46you
18:46see
18:46this
18:47balancing
18:47act
18:48between
18:48the
18:48two
18:49maybe
18:49the
18:50beauty
18:50is
18:50in
18:50the
18:51diversity
18:51but
18:51how
18:52can
18:53ASEAN
18:54unite
18:54yeah
18:56I think
18:56this is
18:57very
18:57interesting
18:58because
18:58actually
18:58we
18:59face
18:59this
19:00kind
19:00of
19:01problem
19:01now
19:01with
19:02this
19:02very
19:03challenging
19:03situation
19:04when
19:04we
19:04face
19:05Trump
19:06tarif
19:06we
19:08face
19:09a
19:09strategic
19:10dilemma
19:10so
19:10we
19:11respond
19:11together
19:12collectively
19:13or
19:14go
19:15alone
19:15and
19:16actually
19:16every
19:17country
19:17have
19:18their
19:18own
19:18approach
19:20with
19:21these
19:21tariffs
19:22right
19:22so
19:22this
19:22is
19:23something
19:23that
19:24when
19:24you
19:24talk
19:25about
19:25diversity
19:25and
19:27unity
19:27but
19:28actually
19:28every
19:30country
19:31have
19:31different
19:31interests
19:32so
19:32and
19:34also
19:35every
19:36country
19:37also
19:37have
19:37different
19:38exposure
19:39in
19:39anything
19:40in
19:40trade
19:41in
19:41investment
19:42from
19:42China
19:43from
19:43US
19:43and
19:44other
19:46partners
19:46so
19:47they're
19:47facing
19:48different
19:48situation
19:49and
19:49also
19:50their
19:50condition
19:51also
19:51different
19:52in
19:52terms
19:52of
19:53the
19:53regulatory
19:54and
19:56also
19:57the
19:58social
19:58economic
19:59condition
19:59so
20:00this
20:00is
20:01a
20:01challenge
20:01I
20:02think
20:02for
20:02ASEAN
20:03how
20:03to
20:04still
20:05coordinate
20:07collaborate
20:08and
20:08communicate
20:09at
20:10least
20:10we
20:11have
20:11some
20:11common
20:12goal
20:12we
20:13want
20:14to
20:14make
20:16our
20:17region
20:17stable
20:20and
20:21also
20:22have
20:23good
20:25economic
20:26growth
20:26in
20:27our
20:27region
20:28so
20:28we
20:28have
20:29some
20:29common
20:30goal
20:30but
20:31we
20:31are
20:31actually
20:31different
20:32so
20:32this
20:33is
20:33something
20:33that
20:33we
20:36should
20:37discuss
20:39and
20:40talk
20:40together
20:41and
20:41I
20:42think
20:42in
20:43Malaysia
20:47ASEAN
20:48summit
20:48there
20:48are
20:48some
20:48consensus
20:50at least
20:50some
20:51leaders
20:51actually
20:52already
20:52tried
20:53to
20:53have
20:54some
20:56agreement
20:59on
20:59these
20:59matters
21:00before
21:03we
21:03go to
21:03that
21:03you
21:04mentioned
21:04something
21:04quite
21:05interesting
21:05Joanne
21:06did you
21:06want
21:06to
21:06add
21:06something
21:07yeah
21:08I
21:08think
21:08that
21:08she
21:09also
21:09made
21:10a
21:10very
21:10important
21:11point
21:11that
21:11various
21:12ASEAN
21:13member
21:13states
21:13have
21:14different
21:14capacities
21:14and
21:15political
21:15appetites
21:16but I
21:17think
21:17at least
21:17and of
21:18course
21:19there is
21:19a need
21:20to
21:20standardize
21:21many
21:21things
21:21and
21:21harmonize
21:22many
21:23regulations
21:23so I
21:24would
21:24just
21:24maybe
21:24state
21:25three
21:25things
21:26that
21:26maybe
21:27what
21:27ASEAN
21:28can do
21:29to
21:29better
21:30harmonize
21:30one
21:31is
21:31of course
21:31the
21:31standards
21:32I
21:32think
21:33very
21:33importantly
21:34ASEAN
21:34needs
21:34to
21:34reduce
21:35non-tariff
21:35barriers
21:36and
21:36then
21:37of course
21:37build
21:37more
21:37efficient
21:39cross-border
21:39digital
21:40and
21:40logistical
21:41infrastructure
21:41I
21:42think
21:42these
21:43three
21:43points
21:44alone
21:44will
21:44actually
21:45lead
21:45to
21:45greater
21:46harmonization
21:48A lot
21:51of
21:51interesting
21:51points
21:51there
21:52of course
21:52you
21:53mentioned
21:53the
21:53US
21:54tariff
21:54wars
21:55the
21:55trade
21:55war
21:55with
21:55US
21:56and
21:56China
21:56again
21:57being
21:58united
21:59or
21:59having
21:59a
22:00united
22:00front
22:00but
22:01also
22:01at
22:01the
22:01same
22:01time
22:02looking
22:03out
22:03for
22:03their
22:03own
22:04interests
22:04having
22:05bilateral
22:06meetings
22:06but
22:06if
22:07you
22:07want
22:07to
22:07go
22:08specifically
22:09about
22:09that
22:09Malaysia
22:10has
22:11written
22:11to
22:11President
22:12Donald
22:12Trump
22:12himself
22:13requesting
22:14support
22:14to
22:14organize
22:15a
22:15US
22:15ASEAN
22:15meeting
22:16of course
22:17discussing
22:18on
22:18tariff
22:18pressures
22:19but
22:19Trump
22:20has
22:20also
22:20recently
22:21announced
22:21that
22:21the
22:22White
22:22House
22:23Washington
22:23is
22:23no
22:24longer
22:24entertaining
22:24one-on-one
22:26trade
22:26negotiations
22:27instead
22:27unilaterally
22:28imposing
22:29tariffs
22:29Faisal
22:30again
22:31going back
22:32to this
22:32balancing
22:32act
22:33right
22:33between
22:33having
22:34a united
22:34front
22:35but
22:35at the
22:35same
22:35time
22:36looking
22:36out
22:37for
22:37everyone's
22:38self
22:38interest
22:39or
22:39at least
22:40sovereign
22:40interest
22:41with
22:42the
22:42US
22:42tariffs
22:43how
22:44should
22:44they
22:44go
22:44about
22:45it
22:45is
22:45this
22:45the
22:46right
22:46strategy
22:46yeah
22:48I
22:48think
22:49again
22:50this
22:50is
22:50the
22:51issue
22:52of
22:52ASEAN
22:53cohesion
22:53despite
22:53the
22:54rhetorical
22:55stance
22:56that we
22:56have
22:57at the
22:57end
22:57of the
22:57day
22:57internal
22:58dynamics
22:59is the
23:01most
23:01important
23:01problem
23:02that
23:02ASEAN
23:02faces
23:03and it's
23:03not only
23:03the
23:04first
23:04time
23:05back
23:05in
23:062016
23:06when
23:07there
23:07is
23:08a
23:08crisis
23:09between
23:10Cambodia
23:11and
23:11Thailand
23:12back
23:12then
23:12also
23:13in
23:142021
23:15when
23:16there
23:16is
23:16a
23:16crisis
23:17in
23:17Myanmar
23:17ASEAN
23:19cohesiveness
23:20is being
23:21tested
23:21and
23:22not to
23:22mention
23:23about
23:23South
23:23China
23:23Sea
23:24when
23:24Philippines
23:25unilaterally
23:26you know
23:26try to
23:28make
23:29China
23:29go to
23:32tribunal
23:32you know
23:33things like
23:33that
23:33so
23:34it's
23:34not
23:34a
23:35new
23:35phenomenon
23:36that
23:36ASEAN
23:37has
23:37just
23:38faced
23:38so
23:39it's
23:39a
23:39recurring
23:40but
23:40this
23:41time
23:41usually
23:42ASEAN
23:44was supported
23:45by the
23:45US
23:46when it
23:46comes to
23:46you know
23:47the
23:47so-called
23:47ASEAN
23:48centrality
23:48everyone's
23:49on board
23:50on making
23:50ASEAN
23:51centrality
23:51because
23:52at that
23:53time
23:53ASEAN
23:54can be
23:55seen
23:55by
23:56the
23:56US
23:56as
23:57kind
23:57of
23:57a
23:58proxy
23:58against
23:59China
23:59that
24:00are
24:00increasingly
24:01aggressive
24:04in South
24:04China Sea
24:05but now
24:05I think
24:06when Trump
24:06has this
24:07populist
24:07idea
24:07and
24:08given
24:08the
24:09fact
24:09that
24:09for
24:10so
24:10long
24:11ASEAN
24:11get the
24:12benefit
24:12of
24:13this
24:13kind
24:13of
24:13balancing
24:14in
24:16terms
24:16of
24:17security
24:17with
24:18China
24:20but at
24:20the
24:20same
24:20time
24:21increasing
24:21getting
24:23a lot
24:23of
24:23economic
24:24benefit
24:24from
24:24the
24:24US
24:25is
24:25no
24:25longer
24:25viable
24:26strategy
24:27and
24:27somehow
24:28we
24:29cannot
24:30use
24:30the
24:31same
24:31amount
24:32kind
24:32of
24:32hedging
24:33strategy
24:33that
24:33we
24:33always
24:34use
24:34right
24:34because
24:35now
24:35Trump
24:35said
24:36okay
24:36you
24:36cannot
24:36do
24:36that
24:37anymore
24:37now
24:37you
24:38also
24:39need
24:39to
24:39basically
24:40choose
24:40right
24:41you
24:41cannot
24:42get
24:42my
24:42economic
24:45support
24:45all the
24:46time
24:46so in
24:46this
24:46case
24:47we
24:48see
24:48you
24:48know
24:49and
24:50ASEAN
24:51was
24:51asked
24:52to
24:52do
24:52unilateral
24:53negotiation
24:54so
24:54for me
24:55this
24:56shows
24:56that
24:57unless
24:58ASEAN
24:59can
24:59present
25:00a united
25:01front
25:01let's
25:01say
25:01clear
25:01demands
25:02or
25:02leverage
25:03which
25:03I
25:03think
25:03that
25:04is
25:04not
25:04the
25:04case
25:04I
25:05think
25:05in
25:06terms
25:07of
25:07economy
25:08we
25:08will
25:08not
25:09see
25:09ASEAN
25:10as
25:10one
25:12cohesive
25:13front
25:14and
25:15we
25:15can
25:15see
25:16in
25:16case
25:16in
25:16point
25:16how
25:17Indonesia
25:17finally
25:18tried
25:18to
25:19kind
25:19of
25:19sabotage
25:20right
25:20it's
25:21Singapore
25:22Indonesia
25:22oil
25:23trade
25:23I
25:25think
25:25people
25:26may
25:26know
25:26that
25:26this
25:27is
25:27also
25:27trying
25:27to
25:27end
25:28oil
25:28import
25:28from
25:28Singapore
25:29due to
25:29a
25:30way
25:31to
25:31leverage
25:31oil
25:33imports
25:33for
25:34the
25:34US
25:34so
25:35it
25:35shows
25:35and
25:36it's
25:36like
25:36ASEAN
25:37consultations
25:38it's
25:38triggered
25:39confusion
25:39in
25:39regional
25:40market
25:40even
25:40Singapore
25:41perhaps
25:41might
25:41think
25:42this
25:42is
25:42kind
25:42of
25:42unilateral
25:44being
25:45done
25:45so
25:46it
25:46shows
25:46the
25:47limitations
25:48of
25:48ASEAN
25:48to
25:48unite
25:49as
25:49a
25:49united
25:50economic
25:50front
25:50so
25:51in
25:51a
25:51way
25:51I
25:52think
25:52that's
25:53also
25:54fragmentation
25:55and
25:55reactive
25:56and
25:57vulnerability
25:57of
25:58ASEAN
25:58that
25:58is
25:59being
25:59shown
25:59to
26:01us
26:01Joanne
26:03as
26:04Faisal
26:04said
26:04the
26:04markets
26:05are
26:05confused
26:05do
26:06you
26:06think
26:06the
26:07leaders
26:07are
26:07just
26:07as
26:08confused
26:08as
26:08we
26:08are
26:09about
26:09how
26:09to
26:09navigate
26:09this
26:10I
26:11don't
26:11think
26:12so
26:12I
26:12think
26:12that
26:13ASEAN
26:13countries
26:14are
26:15clearly
26:15very
26:16concerned
26:17about
26:17the
26:17unilateral
26:18tariffs
26:18and
26:19I
26:20think
26:20whatever
26:20Faisal
26:21has
26:22mentioned
26:22about
26:23national
26:23priorities
26:24as
26:24well
26:25are
26:25very
26:25important
26:26so
26:26that's
26:26why
26:27I
26:27think
26:27ASEAN
26:27is
26:27going
26:28on
26:29a
26:29two
26:29track
26:29approach
26:30so
26:30I
26:30mean
26:30of course
26:31every
26:31individual
26:32countries
26:32are
26:33doing
26:33their
26:33own
26:33bilateral
26:34negotiations
26:34with
26:35the
26:35US
26:35but
26:36of course
26:36ASEAN
26:36as a
26:37bloc
26:37as a
26:38grouping
26:38will
26:39also
26:39need
26:39to
26:39do
26:40something
26:42Prime Minister
26:43Angwa
26:44has
26:44done
26:44is
26:44really
26:45deserves
26:46a
26:46commendation
26:47because
26:47I
26:48think
26:48he's
26:48clearly
26:48trying
26:49to
26:49maintain
26:49open
26:50lines
26:50of
26:51communication
26:51and
26:52preserve
26:53ASEAN's
26:53engagement
26:54with
26:54the
26:54US
26:54especially
26:55as
26:55the
26:55region
26:55braces
26:56for
26:56all
26:57this
26:57economic
26:58fallout
26:58from
26:59the
26:59high
26:59tariffs
27:00and
27:00it's
27:00not
27:00just
27:00tariffs
27:01it's
27:01also
27:01technology
27:02restrictions
27:03under
27:04Trump
27:042.0
27:05but I
27:05think
27:05the
27:06reality
27:06is
27:06that
27:06Trump's
27:07administration
27:08seems
27:08to
27:08be
27:09more
27:09inclined
27:09towards
27:10trade
27:11measures
27:12rather
27:12than
27:12this
27:13sort
27:13of
27:13multilateral
27:14dialogue
27:15as
27:16what
27:16we
27:16have
27:16seen
27:16so
27:17I
27:17think
27:17while
27:18Malaysia's
27:18outreach
27:19is
27:19quite
27:19diplomatically
27:20significant
27:20I would
27:21say
27:21but it's
27:22uncertain
27:22how
27:23effective
27:23it
27:24will
27:24be
27:24and
27:25I
27:25think
27:25the
27:25risk
27:25is
27:26that
27:26ASEAN's
27:26invitation
27:27could
27:27either
27:28be
27:28ignored
27:28or
27:29it
27:29could
27:29be
27:29sidelined
27:30unless
27:30there are
27:31really
27:32compelling
27:32US
27:33interests
27:33that
27:34is
27:34at
27:35stake
27:35but I
27:36think
27:36what
27:36Malaysia
27:37has
27:37actually
27:37done
27:38well
27:38this
27:38time
27:38is
27:39that
27:39it
27:39has
27:39proposed
27:40to
27:40set
27:40up
27:40a
27:40geoeconomic
27:41task
27:42force
27:42and I
27:43think
27:43that
27:43task
27:43force
27:44will
27:44actually
27:44help
27:44ASEAN
27:45to
27:45navigate
27:45this
27:46overlap
27:47between
27:48trade
27:48technology
27:49and
27:50geopolitics
27:51so we
27:51call it
27:51the
27:52trade
27:52and
27:53geopolitics
27:54sort
27:54of
27:54nexus
27:55that we
27:56are
27:56seeing
27:56now
27:57Daisy
27:59do you
27:59have
27:59any
28:00thoughts
28:00on this
28:00on how
28:01to
28:01navigate
28:01the
28:02US
28:02tariff
28:03wars
28:03as you
28:04mentioned
28:04there is
28:05still
28:05a lot
28:05of
28:06great
28:06variation
28:07in
28:07how
28:07the
28:08member
28:09states
28:09want
28:09to
28:09approach
28:10this
28:10but
28:10is
28:11it
28:12possible
28:12to
28:12perhaps
28:14foster
28:14greater
28:15unity
28:15yeah
28:18I
28:18think
28:19we
28:19still
28:19face
28:20greater
28:22uncertainty
28:23because
28:23we
28:24don't
28:24know
28:24actually
28:24President
28:26Trump
28:26will
28:26announce
28:27another
28:28trade
28:29policy
28:30with
28:31which
28:31country
28:31and
28:32any
28:33kind
28:33of
28:33tariff
28:34so we
28:34still
28:36face
28:36great
28:37uncertainty
28:37in the
28:38future
28:39and
28:40also
28:40if
28:41the
28:42US
28:42proceed
28:43the
28:43tariff
28:43after
28:44the
28:4490
28:45days
28:46pause
28:46the
28:47ASEAN
28:47export
28:48will be
28:49hit
28:49so
28:49currently
28:50we
28:50still
28:50face
28:51like
28:5110%
28:53tariff
28:54right
28:54but
28:54if
28:55the
28:56tariff
28:57the
28:57reciprocal
28:58tariff
28:58actually
28:59proceed
29:02same
29:04country
29:04will
29:05be
29:05hit
29:05greatly
29:06and
29:06not
29:07uniformly
29:07and
29:08if
29:08we
29:10are
29:11a
29:11great
29:11hit
29:12differently
29:13and
29:14we
29:14will
29:14maybe
29:15any
29:15country
29:16will
29:16have
29:16different
29:17approach
29:19we
29:19still
29:19don't
29:20know
29:20about
29:21that
29:21so
29:21also
29:22in
29:24this
29:24context
29:25in
29:25the
29:25ASEAN
29:25context
29:26I
29:26think
29:26ASEAN
29:27Malaysia
29:27is
29:28taking
29:28quite
29:29a
29:29constructive
29:30and
29:30forward
29:30looking
29:30approach
29:31because
29:32in
29:33the
29:34summit
29:34the
29:36ASEAN
29:37Malaysia
29:37wants
29:38to
29:38strengthen
29:38the
29:39intra-ASEAN
29:39trade
29:40to
29:40deeper
29:41ASEAN
29:42integration
29:43and
29:43also
29:44try
29:44to
29:44diversify
29:46our
29:47trade
29:47with
29:47other
29:47countries
29:48with
29:50the
29:51discussion
29:53with
29:53EGCC
29:54and
29:54China
29:54I
29:55think
29:55that's
29:55a
29:55good
29:55move
29:55and
29:56it's
29:56also
29:57signalling
29:57something
29:58that
29:58ASEAN
30:00wants
30:00to
30:00diversify
30:02and
30:03also
30:03signal
30:04US
30:04ASEAN
30:05is
30:05actually
30:06quite
30:08good
30:10we
30:12have
30:12a
30:12good
30:12collaboration
30:13as a
30:15region
30:15and
30:16also
30:16in
30:17the
30:17ASEAN
30:18summit
30:19also
30:19we
30:21also
30:21focus
30:22on
30:22enhanced
30:23trade
30:23resilience
30:23through
30:24facilitation
30:25digital
30:26trade
30:26and
30:27reduce
30:27inter-regional
30:29barriers
30:29so
30:29I
30:30think
30:30even
30:32if
30:32ASEAN
30:32doesn't
30:33yet
30:33have
30:33unified
30:34position
30:34on
30:35the
30:35US
30:35policy
30:36strengthening
30:37regional
30:37cooperation
30:38and
30:39diversifying
30:39market
30:40will
30:40help
30:41the
30:41region
30:41to
30:42manage
30:42external
30:43shops
30:43and
30:44sustain
30:44momentum
30:45to
30:46yeah
30:46I
30:46think
30:46yeah
30:47that's
30:47a
30:47good
30:48move
30:49and
30:50forward
30:50looking
30:50approach
30:51in
30:51the
30:51ASEAN
30:51summit
30:52as you
31:11mentioned
31:11market
31:12diversification
31:12and
31:13you
31:13also
31:13pointed
31:14out
31:14of course
31:14the
31:14ASEAN
31:15GCC
31:16China
31:16and
31:17when
31:17we're
31:17talking
31:18about
31:18trade
31:18policies
31:19from
31:19the
31:19US
31:19of course
31:20we have
31:20to
31:20touch
31:20on
31:21the
31:21US
31:21China
31:21rivalry
31:22Faisal
31:23your
31:24thoughts
31:24on
31:24the
31:25rivalry
31:25how
31:26do
31:26you
31:26think
31:26ASEAN
31:27is
31:27faring
31:28in
31:28its
31:29adherence
31:30to
31:30the
31:30principles
31:30of
31:31non-alignment
31:32and
31:32neutrality
31:33in
31:33this
31:34area
31:34yeah
31:35I
31:35think
31:35first
31:35of
31:35all
31:36I
31:36mean
31:36I
31:37agree
31:37that
31:37Malaysia
31:38has
31:39done
31:39a
31:39very
31:39good
31:40job
31:40in
31:40making
31:41sure
31:41that
31:41we
31:41are
31:41a
31:42united
31:42front
31:43line
31:43but
31:43again
31:44the
31:45devil
31:49has
31:50no
31:50ambassador
31:51to
31:51the
31:51US
31:52so
31:52when
31:53we
31:53try
31:53to
31:54show
31:55that
31:55we
31:56really
31:56care
31:56about
31:57making
31:57sure
31:57that
31:57we
31:58are
31:58united
31:58front
31:59but
31:59who
32:00are
32:00the
32:00people
32:01on
32:01the
32:01ground
32:02that
32:02are
32:02doing
32:03so
32:03it's
32:03also
32:04kind
32:04of
32:04a
32:04missing
32:05link
32:05I
32:05guess
32:06it's
32:07not
32:07a
32:07big
32:07deal
32:08in
32:08the
32:08grand
32:08scheme
32:08of
32:08things
32:08but
32:09I
32:09think
32:09it
32:09shows
32:09that
32:10there
32:11is
32:12a
32:12kind
32:12of
32:12limitations
32:13of
32:13what
32:13the
32:14leader
32:14has
32:14say
32:15at
32:15the
32:16leader
32:17level
32:17and
32:17how
32:18this
32:18can
32:18be
32:19done
32:19at
32:19the
32:20day
32:20to
32:20day
32:20and
32:21how
32:21can
32:21we
32:21have
32:22a
32:22person
32:23in
32:24charge
32:24for
32:24ASEAN
32:25in
32:25DC
32:26for
32:26instance
32:27trying
32:27to
32:27lobby
32:28as
32:29one
32:29united
32:30front
32:31other
32:31than
32:32as
32:33a
32:33country
32:34I
32:34think
32:34that
32:35is
32:35also
32:35a
32:36big
32:37deal
32:37from
32:38diplomatic
32:38point
32:39of
32:39view
32:39but
32:40again
32:40responding
32:42to
32:43your
32:43question
32:44about
32:44being
32:45united
32:46front
32:46and
32:46non-aligned
32:47I
32:47think
32:47this
32:47is
32:48the
32:49question
32:49that
32:49we
32:50really
32:50need
32:51to
32:51ask
32:51because
32:51for
32:52the
32:52past
32:53decades
32:53ASEAN
32:55has
32:55never
32:55been
32:55asked
32:56to
32:56really
32:57choose
32:57so
32:58we
32:59can
32:59keep
32:59doing
33:00what
33:00we
33:00are
33:01really
33:01good
33:01at
33:01doing
33:02basically
33:02trying
33:03not
33:03to
33:04inclusivity
33:06making
33:07sure
33:07that
33:07everyone
33:07are
33:09happy
33:10with
33:11how
33:11we
33:11are
33:11conducting
33:12our
33:12business
33:12in
33:12the
33:13region
33:13but
33:13surprisingly
33:14this
33:14rivalry
33:15requires
33:16us
33:17to
33:17choose
33:17and
33:18the
33:18question
33:18should
33:18we
33:19need
33:19to
33:19choose
33:19there
33:20is
33:20a
33:20third
33:21way
33:22like
33:23what
33:23Macron
33:23has
33:23always
33:24said
33:24right
33:24we
33:26are
33:26not
33:26only
33:26required
33:28to
33:28choose
33:30between
33:30the
33:30US
33:30and
33:30China
33:31let's
33:31say
33:31but
33:32we
33:32can
33:32create
33:33our
33:33own
33:33the
33:34world
33:34is
33:34big
33:35enough
33:35not
33:37only
33:37depending
33:38on
33:39these
33:39two
33:39so
33:39that's
33:39why
33:40I
33:40think
33:40there
33:41is
33:41a
33:41third
33:42way
33:43I
33:43see
33:43from
33:44the
33:45strategic
33:45point
33:46of
33:46view
33:46from
33:46ASEAN
33:47leaders
33:47that's
33:48why
33:48I
33:48think
33:49having
33:49GCC
33:50Gulf
33:53Country
33:53Cooperation
33:54Council
33:54part
33:55of
33:55this
33:55trilateral
33:56I
33:56think
33:56this
33:57is
33:57major
33:58you
33:58know
33:58usually
33:59ASEAN
33:59do
33:59ASEAN
34:00plus
34:00one
34:00or
34:01ASEAN
34:01plus
34:02three
34:02but
34:02now
34:02it's
34:02the
34:03whole
34:03you
34:04know
34:04cooperation
34:04of
34:05three
34:06different
34:06regions
34:07so
34:07I
34:07think
34:07whether
34:08we
34:09can
34:09see
34:09whether
34:09it's
34:10going
34:10to
34:10be
34:10really
34:12have
34:13an
34:13impact
34:13but
34:14at
34:14least
34:14there
34:15is
34:15a
34:15symbolic
34:15in
34:16here
34:16so
34:16I
34:17think
34:17it's
34:17time
34:17for
34:18us
34:18ASEAN
34:19to
34:19look
34:19at
34:20perhaps
34:20Latin
34:20America
34:21Africa
34:22or
34:22Europe
34:23usually
34:24we
34:24see
34:24Europe
34:24as
34:25a
34:25distance
34:25cousins
34:26of
34:26ASEAN
34:27but
34:27only
34:28working
34:29in a
34:29normative
34:30way
34:30but
34:30now
34:31I
34:31think
34:31it
34:32becomes
34:33increasingly
34:34more
34:34important
34:34so
34:35I
34:35think
34:35our
34:37non-aligned
34:38kind
34:39of
34:39approach
34:39should
34:40be
34:40directed
34:41into
34:42creating
34:42a
34:43kind
34:43of
34:43a
34:43new
34:44multilateral
34:44forum
34:45that
34:45may
34:45not
34:46really
34:46depending
34:46on
34:47US
34:47or
34:47China
34:48really
34:50interesting
34:51points
34:51there
34:52and
34:52Joanne
34:52you
34:52said
34:53this
34:53is
34:53the
34:53time
34:53for
34:54ASEAN
34:54to
34:54show
34:55its
34:55relevance
34:56to
34:56the
34:56world
34:56right
34:56and
34:57especially
34:57with
34:57the
34:57US
34:57China
34:58rivalry
34:58the
34:59world
34:59is
34:59definitely
34:59looking
35:00to
35:00ASEAN
35:01there's
35:01definitely
35:01a lot
35:02more
35:02attention
35:03it's
35:03gaining
35:03a lot
35:04more
35:04prominence
35:04on
35:04the
35:04global
35:05stage
35:05what
35:06do
35:06you
35:07think
35:07of
35:07this
35:07do
35:07you
35:07think
35:08ASEAN
35:08needs
35:08to
35:08pick
35:09sides
35:09or
35:09is
35:09there
35:10a
35:10third
35:10way
35:18its
35:18principles
35:18of
35:19neutrality
35:19and
35:20non-alignment
35:20amidst
35:21the
35:21deepening
35:22US-China
35:23rivalry
35:23but it's
35:24really
35:25getting
35:25harder
35:25these
35:26days
35:26because
35:26I know
35:28the
35:28grouping
35:28wants
35:29to
35:29remain
35:29committed
35:30to
35:30strategic
35:31autonomy
35:31and
35:32inclusive
35:33regionalism
35:34but
35:35I think
35:36it's
35:36getting
35:37a lot
35:37more
35:37complicated
35:38and
35:38member
35:38states
35:39are
35:39really
35:39very
35:41widely
35:41in
35:41their
35:42alignments
35:42and
35:42threat
35:43perceptions
35:43so
35:44of course
35:44there are
35:45some
35:45countries
35:45like
35:45the
35:45Philippines
35:46that
35:46are
35:47drawing
35:47closer to
35:47the US
35:48while
35:48others
35:49want
35:49to
35:49maintain
35:50very
35:50strong
35:50economic
35:51and
35:51strategic
35:51ties
35:52with
35:52China
35:52so
35:53despite
35:53these
35:54sort
35:54of
35:54differences
35:55I think
35:55ASEAN
35:55still serves
35:56as a
35:57convening
35:57platform
35:58for both
35:59powers
35:59which really
36:00reinforces
36:01its relevance
36:02because we
36:03are actually
36:04engaging
36:04with both
36:05sides
36:05but of
36:06course
36:06with the
36:06rising
36:06pressures
36:07whether
36:07it's
36:08a
36:08terrorist
36:08tech
36:09restrictions
36:10or even
36:10maritime
36:10tensions
36:11I think
36:12the real
36:12challenge
36:12is whether
36:13ASEAN
36:13can
36:14actually
36:14stay
36:14united
36:15and
36:15to
36:16really
36:16act
36:17collectively
36:17and as
36:18Pfizer
36:18has
36:19mentioned
36:19diversification
36:20is always
36:21great
36:21I mean
36:21there are
36:22a lot
36:22of
36:22middle
36:22powers
36:23out
36:23there
36:23so
36:23there's
36:24actually
36:24Japan
36:25ROK
36:26that is
36:26within
36:26the
36:27Asia
36:27Pacific
36:28and of
36:29course
36:29there's
36:29also
36:29Australia
36:30as well
36:31so there's
36:31actually
36:32France
36:32you mentioned
36:33there's
36:33actually
36:34EU
36:34there's
36:35actually
36:35a lot
36:36of
36:36middle
36:36powers
36:36out
36:36there
36:37that
36:37ASEAN
36:39wants
36:39to
36:39collaborate
36:42with
36:42and of
36:42course
36:43the
36:43ASEAN
36:44GCC
36:45China
36:45summit
36:45is
36:46probably
36:46a
36:46way
36:47as
36:47well
36:47for
36:49ASEAN
36:50to
36:50diversify
36:51its
36:51sort
36:51of
36:51economic
36:52cooperation
36:52rather
36:53than
36:53just
36:53relying
36:54on
36:54the
36:55big
36:55economic
36:57players
36:58On
37:00that
37:00note
37:00Daisy
37:00you
37:01mentioned
37:01about
37:01the
37:02significance
37:02of
37:03the
37:03ASEAN
37:03GCC
37:04and
37:04ASEAN
37:05GCC
37:05China
37:05summits
37:06what do
37:07you
37:07think
37:07we
37:10can
37:10make
37:10of
37:10this
37:11inaugural
37:12trilateral
37:13summit
37:13as well
37:14being
37:14ASEAN
37:15GCC
37:15summit
37:16when
37:16we're
37:16talking
37:16about
37:16creating
37:17this
37:17third
37:17way
37:18creating
37:18new
37:19collaborations
37:20with
37:21middle
37:22powers
37:23with
37:23perhaps
37:24partners
37:24in the
37:25global
37:25south
37:25as well
37:26some
37:26are
37:26calling
37:27this
37:27as
37:27the
37:27new
37:27power
37:27block
37:28of
37:28the
37:28global
37:28south
37:29is
37:29this
37:29really
37:30significant
37:31is
37:31it
37:32going
37:32to
37:32perhaps
37:33bear
37:34some
37:35fruits
37:35do
37:35you
37:36think
37:36Daisy
37:36I
37:37would
37:38like
37:38to
37:38add
37:38on
37:39the
37:39naturality
37:40and
37:40non-alignment
37:41I
37:41think
37:42ASEAN
37:42should
37:43continue
37:43to
37:43uphold
37:44its
37:44long-standing
37:45principles
37:45but
37:46the
37:47naturality
37:48doesn't
37:48mean
37:49disengagement
37:50so
37:51I
37:51think
37:51ASEAN
37:52is still
37:53pursuing
37:54an active
37:54balanced
37:55strategy
37:56maintaining
37:57open trade
37:58and investment
37:59ties with
38:00many partners
38:01with US
38:02with China
38:03and I
38:04think the
38:05ASEAN
38:05GCC
38:05China
38:06traditional
38:06meeting
38:07during the
38:07summit
38:08reflect the
38:09ASEAN intention
38:10to diversify
38:11partnership
38:12and strengthen
38:13regional
38:13cooperation
38:14not just the
38:15traditional powers
38:16but also the
38:17emerging
38:17block
38:18I
38:20think
38:20ASEAN
38:20has taken
38:21the
38:21important
38:21steps
38:22to
38:22show
38:24the
38:24world
38:24that
38:24actually
38:25we
38:25cannot
38:26we can
38:27still
38:27be
38:27natural
38:28but
38:28we
38:28can
38:29still
38:29try
38:30to
38:30be
38:30open
38:31and
38:32have
38:33partnered
38:34with
38:34free
38:35every
38:37partner
38:37including
38:38US
38:39and China
38:40and
38:41we
38:41still
38:41also
38:42can
38:42try
38:43to be
38:43partner
38:44with
38:44other
38:45countries
38:45as well
38:46Earlier
38:50Joanne
38:51you
38:51mentioned
38:51about
38:52how
38:52Malaysia
38:52is
38:53quite
38:53strategic
38:54in
38:54keeping
38:54open
38:55lines
38:55of
38:55communication
38:56we
38:57were
38:57talking
38:57about
38:57the
38:57US
38:58tariffs
38:58with
38:58US
38:59China
38:59rivalry
38:59but
39:00I
39:00do
39:00want
39:00to
39:00quickly
39:00touch
39:01on
39:01the
39:01Myanmar
39:02crisis
39:02as
39:02well
39:03talking
39:03about
39:04having
39:04open
39:04lines
39:05of
39:05communication
39:05I
39:05believe
39:06that
39:06is
39:06quite
39:06similar
39:07to
39:07how
39:07ANUA
39:08is
39:09trying
39:09to
39:09approach
39:10the
39:10Myanmar
39:10crisis
39:11having
39:11had
39:12engagements
39:13with
39:13both
39:13sides
39:13in
39:14Myanmar
39:14some
39:15see
39:17this
39:17as
39:17a
39:17new
39:17and
39:18much
39:18needed
39:18approach
39:19a
39:19fresh
39:19take
39:19on
39:20negotiations
39:21that
39:21have
39:22been
39:22quite
39:22slow
39:23in
39:24peace
39:25efforts
39:26in
39:26Myanmar
39:26do
39:27you
39:27think
39:27this
39:28is
39:28the
39:28right
39:28move
39:28to
39:29engage
39:29both
39:30parties
39:31obviously
39:32some
39:32are
39:32criticising
39:33as
39:33well
39:33saying
39:33that
39:34this
39:34is
39:34giving
39:35perhaps
39:36more
39:36legitimacy
39:37to
39:37the
39:37military
39:38junta
39:39what
39:39do
39:39you
39:39think
39:39yeah
39:41I feel
39:42that
39:42Prime
39:42Minister
39:43Anwar's
39:43approach
39:44to the
39:44Myanmar
39:45crisis
39:45reflects
39:46quite a
39:47pragmatic
39:47and quiet
39:48diplomacy
39:49that
39:50Malaysia
39:52can bring
39:52as an
39:53ASEAN
39:53chair
39:53instead
39:55of relying
39:55on very
39:56loud
39:56condemnation
39:57or
39:57formal
39:58mechanism
39:59alone
39:59I think
39:59Malaysia
40:00has pushed
40:00for
40:00back China
40:01engagement
40:02meeting
40:03with
40:03both
40:04the
40:04junta
40:05and
40:05the
40:06opposition
40:06representatives
40:07and
40:08of course
40:09I think
40:09something
40:09new
40:10that
40:10Anwar
40:10has
40:11done
40:11is
40:11to
40:11set
40:11up
40:12an
40:12informal
40:12advisory
40:13group
40:14led
40:14by
40:14former
40:15Thai
40:16Prime
40:16Minister
40:16Thaksin
40:17I think
40:18this
40:19efforts
40:21is actually
40:22also supported
40:23by figures
40:23like the
40:24Brunei
40:24Sultan
40:24and also
40:25the former
40:26Cambodia
40:27Prime
40:27Minister
40:27Hoon
40:27Seng
40:28if this
40:28kind of
40:29approach
40:29helps
40:29to keep
40:30the
40:30door
40:30open
40:31for
40:31eventual
40:32dialogue
40:33when the
40:33conditions
40:34are
40:34more
40:35conducive
40:35so
40:36I think
40:37Prime
40:37Minister
40:37Anwar
40:37has
40:37actually
40:38put
40:38it
40:38that
40:38way
40:39he
40:39said
40:39that
40:39even
40:40a
40:40fragile
40:41bridge
40:41is
40:41better
40:42than
40:42a
40:42widening
40:43gap
40:43right
40:43so
40:44it's
40:44actually
40:45I
40:45wouldn't
40:45say
40:45it's
40:45a
40:46breakthrough
40:46yet
40:47but
40:47I
40:47think
40:47it's
40:48actually
40:48a
40:48start
40:48and
40:49perhaps
40:49a
40:50more
40:50realistic
40:50one
40:51given
40:52how
40:52ASEAN
40:53you
40:53know
40:53I
40:56mean
40:56how
40:56stark
40:56ASEAN
40:57has
40:57been
40:57on
40:58this
40:59matter
40:59I
41:00mean
41:00it's
41:00already
41:00been
41:01four
41:01years
41:02Faisal
41:04what do
41:04make
41:04of
41:04this
41:05quiet
41:05engagement
41:06is it
41:07too
41:07soon
41:07to
41:07call
41:07it
41:07a
41:07breakthrough
41:08well
41:09I
41:09think
41:09again
41:09from
41:10the
41:10beginning
41:10this
41:11is
41:11ASEAN
41:12way
41:12of
41:13dealing
41:13with
41:13issue
41:14right
41:14we
41:15are
41:15not
41:15naming
41:15and
41:16shaming
41:16kind
41:16of
41:17approach
41:17like
41:17in
41:17the
41:17US
41:18or
41:18in
41:18the
41:18Western
41:19countries
41:19in
41:19general
41:20pressuring
41:20you
41:21know
41:21what
41:21we
41:21really
41:22wanted
41:22to
41:23do
41:23is
41:23mediating
41:24regional
41:24security
41:24tension
41:25especially
41:25if
41:25it's
41:26on
41:26our
41:26backyard
41:27you
41:27know
41:27we
41:29try
41:29to
41:29engage
41:30of
41:30course
41:30people
41:30might
41:30say
41:31ASEAN
41:32is
41:32always
41:33progressing
41:33through
41:34process
41:35right
41:35but
41:36sometimes
41:36is it
41:37process
41:38as a
41:38goal
41:39or
41:39is it
41:39process
41:39as a
41:40mean
41:40and
41:41some
41:41people
41:41say
41:41that's
41:42the
41:42goal
41:42of
41:43having
41:43a lot
41:44of
41:44process
41:45but
41:45at
41:45the
41:46end
41:46of
41:46the
41:46day
41:46it
41:46will
41:47resolve
41:48eventually
41:50and
41:50I
41:50think
41:50despite
41:51of
41:51the
41:51limitations
41:52of
41:52this
41:53kind
41:53of
41:53approach
41:54it's
41:54slow
41:55you
41:56know
41:56it's
41:56quiet
41:56you
41:57know
41:57a lot
41:57of
41:57people
41:58not
41:58having
41:59patience
42:00to do
42:00so
42:00but
42:00I
42:00think
42:01it
42:02might
42:02work
42:02in
42:02long
42:03terms
42:03because
42:04you
42:05know
42:05I
42:05think
42:06in
42:06the
42:06ground
42:06there
42:07is
42:08slightly
42:08change
42:09the
42:09junta
42:10is
42:10increasingly
42:11more
42:11being
42:13embraced
42:14by
42:14its
42:14regional
42:15counterparts
42:16instead
42:17of
42:17being
42:18alienated
42:19so
42:19in
42:19a
42:20way
42:20I
42:21think
42:21Malaysia
42:22bring
42:23back
42:23this
42:23kind
42:24of
42:24you
42:25know
42:26mediating
42:27approach
42:28which
42:29I
42:29think
42:29in
42:29my
42:30personal
42:30view
42:30this
42:31is
42:31what
42:32we
42:32need
42:32to
42:32do
42:33because
42:33we
42:33are
42:33not
42:34like
42:34EU
42:34that
42:35have
42:35a
42:35strong
42:35institution
42:36you
42:37know
42:37we
42:37cannot
42:37you
42:37know
42:37the
42:385P
42:38consensus
42:39is a
42:39good
42:40balancing
42:40act
42:41you
42:41know
42:41we
42:41cannot
42:42just
42:42you
42:42know
42:43isolate
42:44Myanmar
42:45and I
42:45think
42:45time
42:46will
42:47tell
42:47of
42:47course
42:48there
42:48is
42:48no
42:49solution
42:50yet
42:50inside
42:51but
42:52time
42:52will
42:52tell
42:52whether
42:53this
42:53is
42:53going
42:53to
42:53be
42:54a
42:54good
42:54decision
42:55but
42:55I
42:55think
42:55in
42:56my
42:56personal
42:56point
42:56of
42:56view
42:57is
42:57a
42:57way
42:58of
42:58dealing
42:58with
42:59ASEAN
43:00countries
43:00Daisy
43:04going to
43:04that
43:05point
43:06about
43:07what
43:07Faisal
43:07said
43:07this
43:07is
43:08how
43:08ASEAN
43:08has
43:08always
43:09dealt
43:09with
43:09internal
43:11crisis
43:11perhaps
43:12right
43:12and
43:13looking
43:13at
43:13the
43:13Myanmar
43:13crisis
43:14with
43:15the
43:15five
43:15point
43:15consensus
43:16and
43:17perhaps
43:17what
43:17has
43:18changed
43:18a
43:18little
43:18bit
43:18this
43:19time
43:19around
43:19having
43:20both
43:20parties
43:21not
43:21yet
43:22at
43:22the
43:22table
43:22but
43:23heading
43:23to
43:24that
43:24direction
43:24do
43:25you
43:25think
43:25this
43:26is
43:26the
43:26right
43:26track
43:27for
43:27ASEAN
43:28yeah
43:30I
43:30think
43:31actually
43:32ASEAN
43:33still
43:33do
43:34something
43:34right
43:35by
43:35facilitating
43:36dialogue
43:37humanitarian
43:38assistance
43:40but
43:41the
43:42progress
43:42may be
43:43still
43:43limited
43:44yeah
43:45like
43:46Johan
43:47and
43:47Faisal
43:48mentioned
43:49before
43:49that
43:50this
43:51is
43:51the
43:51ASEAN
43:51way
43:52that
43:52we
43:53cannot
43:53just
43:54push
43:55Myanmar
43:57and
43:57other
43:58parties
43:58to
43:59do
44:00some
44:00things
44:01we
44:01do
44:02it
44:02in
44:03ASEAN
44:03way
44:03so
44:04but
44:05we
44:05hope
44:06it
44:08will
44:08I
44:09don't
44:09know
44:10how
44:10can
44:11the
44:15lack
44:16of
44:16tangible
44:16outcomes
44:17underscore
44:18the
44:18need
44:18for
44:18more
44:19robust
44:20mechanism
44:20to
44:21address
44:21this
44:21crisis
44:22effectively
44:22and
44:23I
44:23think
44:23we
44:26need
44:26more
44:27coordination
44:27on
44:28this
44:29thing
44:29just
44:30two
44:31quick
44:31things
44:32on
44:32this
44:32one
44:32is
44:33I
44:33think
44:33ASEAN
44:33needs
44:34an
44:34implementation
44:34roadmap
44:35the
44:36five
44:36point
44:37consensus
44:37unfortunately
44:38is so
44:38broad
44:39you
44:40know
44:40you
44:40need
44:40some
44:40final
44:41details
44:41on
44:42what
44:42you
44:42can
44:43do
44:43and
44:43what
44:43you
44:43can
44:44implement
44:44and
44:45second
44:45is
44:45to
44:45have
44:46a
44:46longer
44:46term
44:46special
44:47envoy
44:47you
44:47don't
44:48want
44:48to
44:48have
44:48a
44:48new
44:48person
44:49every
44:49year
44:50and
44:50I
44:50think
44:51this
44:51is
44:51what
44:51Prime
44:52Minister
44:52Anwar
44:52has
44:53said
44:53that
44:53he
44:53is
44:53going
44:53to
44:53look
44:54into
44:54which
44:55is
44:55a
44:55longer
44:55term
44:55special
44:56envoy
44:56once
44:56you
44:56have
44:56these
44:57two
44:57up
44:57I
44:57can
44:58get
44:59things
44:59going
45:00much
45:02needed
45:03because
45:03it
45:03has
45:03been
45:04four
45:04years
45:04after
45:05all
45:05do
45:06you
45:06think
45:06it's
45:06moving
45:06at a
45:07speed
45:07it
45:08should
45:08be
45:09or
45:09is
45:09this
45:09how
45:10you
45:10know
45:11it's
45:11a
45:12tricky
45:12conflict
45:12and
45:13it
45:13takes
45:13time
45:13for
45:14sure
45:14but
45:14do
45:14you
45:15think
45:15they
45:17need
45:17to
45:17act
45:17with
45:17greater
45:18urgency
45:18perhaps
45:19of
45:19course
45:19definitely
45:20I
45:21think
45:21adding
45:22on
45:22that
45:23I
45:23think
45:23again
45:24ASEAN
45:24should
45:24also
45:25make
45:25a
45:25setting
45:26a
45:26clear
45:26benchmark
45:26for
45:27progress
45:27so
45:27four
45:28years
45:28five
45:29point
45:29consensus
45:29how
45:30this
45:31will
45:31be
45:31assessed
45:32as
45:32a
45:33successful
45:33whether
45:34we
45:34need
45:34to
45:34suspend
45:34political
45:35representation
45:35if
45:36there
45:36is
45:36an
45:36incentive
45:37if
45:39there
45:39is
45:40one
45:40progress
45:42in
45:42one
45:43of
45:44the
45:44five
45:44point
45:45consensus
45:45I
45:45think
45:45setting
45:46clear
45:46benchmark
45:47is
45:47also
45:48kind
45:48of
45:48an
45:49important
45:49set
45:50up
45:50I
45:50think
45:50that
45:51perhaps
45:51Malaysia
45:52can
45:52do
45:53yeah
45:54apart
45:55from
45:55the
45:56Myanmar
45:56crisis
45:56of course
45:57looking
45:57internally
45:58ASEAN
45:59is
45:59also
45:59looking
46:00at
46:00the
46:00South
46:01China
46:01Sea
46:01dispute
46:02with
46:02Philippines
46:03calling
46:03on
46:03ASEAN
46:04to
46:04fast
46:04track
46:05a
46:05code
46:05of
46:06conduct
46:06for
46:06the
46:06South
46:07China
46:07Sea
46:07urging
46:08member
46:08states
46:08to
46:08play
46:09a
46:09stronger
46:09role
46:09in
46:10the
46:10US
46:10China
46:11power
46:11rivalry
46:12but
46:12it
46:12seems
46:12like
46:13Philippines
46:13is
46:13always
46:14rather
46:15alone
46:15in
46:16these
46:16calls
46:17Faisal
46:18what do
46:19you
46:19make
46:19of
46:19this
46:19I
46:20totally
46:21agree
46:21I
46:21think
46:21this
46:22is
46:22where
46:23ASEAN
46:24is
46:24lagging
46:25behind
46:25despite
46:25of
46:26having
46:26talk
46:26from
46:271990s
46:28with
46:29the
46:29notion
46:30of
46:30code
46:30of
46:30conduct
46:31with
46:31China
46:31and
46:32we
46:32can
46:33see
46:33how
46:33China
46:33wanted
46:34to
46:34do
46:35it
46:35bilaterally
46:36instead
46:37of
46:37multilaterally
46:37while
46:38ASEAN
46:38wanted
46:38to
46:39do
46:39this
46:39through
46:40dialogue
46:40multilateral
46:41so
46:42in a
46:42way
46:42I
46:42think
46:43in
46:44order
46:44to
46:44do
46:44a
46:44fast
46:45right
46:45I
46:45think
46:45again
46:46there
46:47will
46:47be
46:47a
46:47kind
46:48of
46:48way
46:49for
46:49us
46:49to
46:50approach
46:52this
46:52so-called
46:52China
46:53divide
46:53and
46:53rule
46:53tactics
46:54because
46:54I
46:55think
46:56are
47:01on
47:01side
47:01with
47:02Philippines
47:02we
47:03want
47:03to
47:03do
47:03this
47:04multilaterally
47:05we
47:06want
47:06to
47:06do
47:07consensus
47:08on
47:08this
47:08but
47:08the
47:09problem
47:09is
47:09a
47:10bigger
47:12ASEAN
47:12countries
47:13like
47:13Cambodia
47:15Myanmar
47:17or
47:18perhaps
47:18these
47:19small
47:19new
47:21member
47:22ASEAN
47:22countries
47:23are
47:23kind
47:24of
47:24buying
47:25this
47:26China
47:26divide
47:27and
47:27antarctics
47:27and
47:27I
47:27think
47:28this
47:29also
47:29reflects
47:31the
47:31fragmentation
47:32within
47:32ASEAN
47:32where
47:33some
47:34countries
47:34are
47:34more
47:35focal
47:35Philippines
47:36Vietnam
47:36and
47:37to
47:37some
47:37extent
47:37Indonesia
47:38as
47:38well
47:38and
47:39also
47:39Malaysia
47:40but
47:41at
47:41the
47:41same
47:41time
47:42they
47:42need
47:43to
47:43understand
47:44that
47:44the
47:45smaller
47:45countries
47:45are
47:45more
47:46accommodating
47:46so
47:46in
47:47here
47:48we
47:48see
47:48I
47:49think
47:49one
47:50thing
47:51for
47:51we
47:51need
47:52to
47:52have
47:52a
47:52strengthening
47:53coordination
47:54mechanism
47:54also
47:56despite
47:57the
47:58diversity
47:59and
47:59fragmentation
48:00within
48:01ASEAN
48:01I
48:01think
48:01we
48:01need
48:01to
48:02lobby
48:02more
48:03how
48:04important
48:04this
48:04is
48:05for
48:05all
48:05of
48:05the
48:05ASEAN
48:06and
48:07I
48:07think
48:07having
48:08this
48:08more
48:08in-depth
48:09engagement
48:10diplomatic
48:10which I
48:11think
48:11lacking
48:12nowadays
48:12because
48:12perhaps
48:13people
48:14are
48:14more
48:15interested
48:15in
48:16leaders
48:17meeting
48:18leaders
48:18retreat
48:19but
48:20at
48:20the
48:20end
48:20of
48:20the
48:20day
48:20the
48:21one
48:21that
48:21is
48:21more
48:21important
48:21is
48:22how
48:22we
48:22maintain
48:23the
48:23line
48:24of
48:24communication
48:24day-to-day
48:26diplomacy
48:27with other
48:28ASEAN
48:28countries
48:29to make
48:29sure
48:29that
48:29they
48:30shift
48:30their
48:30perception
48:31on
48:31this
48:31China
48:32and
48:33I
48:33think
48:33it's
48:33more
48:33important
48:34to
48:34make
48:35this
48:35Cambodian
48:36ASEAN
48:37member
48:37state
48:38to
48:38know
48:39the
48:39importance
48:39of
48:40having
48:40code
48:40of
48:40conduct
48:41with
48:41China
48:41in
48:42So
48:42China
48:42scene
48:42Joanne
48:45your
48:46thoughts
48:46on
48:46this
48:46this
48:46is
48:46another
48:47point
48:47of
48:47fragmentation
48:48for
48:48the
48:48member
48:49states
48:49how
48:49would
48:50greater
48:51coordination
48:52look like
48:52in this
48:53issue
48:53FISA
48:55actually
48:55illustrated
48:56the
48:58real
48:58situation
48:59on the
48:59ground
49:00because
49:00it is
49:01really
49:01complex
49:02the
49:03code
49:03of
49:03conduct
49:03process
49:04has
49:04been
49:04stuck
49:05in
49:06a
49:06prolonged
49:07deadlock
49:07I would
49:07say
49:08not
49:08just
49:08because
49:09of
49:09China's
49:10uncompromising
49:10position
49:11but
49:11really
49:12as
49:13what
49:13he
49:13said
49:14is
49:14due
49:14to
49:14the
49:14deep
49:15internal
49:15divisions
49:16within
49:17ASEAN
49:17itself
49:18because
49:18you
49:18know
49:18some
49:19claimant
49:19states
49:19like
49:19the
49:20Philippines
49:20they
49:20have
49:20grown
49:21more
49:21assertive
49:21as
49:22we
49:22have
49:22seen
49:22they
49:23have
49:23bolstered
49:24their
49:24defence
49:24partnerships
49:25with
49:25other
49:26major
49:26powers
49:27while
49:27others
49:28of
49:28course
49:28they
49:28prefer
49:29a
49:29more
49:29cautious
49:30status
49:31sort
49:32of
49:32approach
49:33so
49:33the
49:33result
49:34is
49:34exactly
49:34like
49:35FISA
49:35you
49:35say
49:36fragmented
49:37ASEAN
49:37that
49:38lacks
49:39the
49:39internal
49:39consensus
49:40and the
49:40political
49:41will
49:41to
49:41move
49:42the
49:42COC
49:42forward
49:42in
49:43any
49:43meaningful
49:44way
49:44so
49:44while
49:45the
49:45Philippines
49:46call
49:46is
49:46very
49:46important
49:47but
49:47unless
49:48ASEAN
49:48rethink
49:49its
49:49strategy
49:49the
49:50process
49:50really
49:51risks
49:51losing
49:52credibility
49:53altogether
49:54and
49:55incidentally
49:56I
49:56also
49:56just
49:57published
49:57a
49:58paper
49:58today
49:59the
50:00title
50:00of
50:00the
50:00paper
50:00is
50:01called
50:01the
50:01elusive
50:02code
50:02why
50:03ASEAN
50:03needs
50:03a
50:04new
50:04playbook
50:05so
50:05in
50:05case
50:06and
50:06I
50:06have
50:06put
50:06up
50:06five
50:07recommendations
50:07in
50:08the
50:08paper
50:08we
50:08don't
50:08have
50:09time
50:09for
50:09me
50:09to
50:09go
50:09through
50:10all
50:10those
50:10things
50:11but
50:11in
50:11case
50:12you
50:12are
50:12interested
50:12that
50:13paper
50:13is
50:13a
50:14perspective
50:14piece
50:15on
50:15the
50:15Isis
50:16Yusuf
50:16Ishan
50:17Institute
50:17website
50:18Thanks
50:19Jawan
50:20I'll
50:20be
50:20sure
50:20to
50:20read
50:21that
50:21we
50:21are
50:21coming
50:22towards
50:22the
50:22end
50:23now
50:23but
50:23I
50:23think
50:24you
50:24ended
50:24there
50:24quite
50:25a
50:25good
50:25note
50:25about
50:26this
50:27need
50:27for
50:27a
50:27new
50:27playbook
50:28for
50:28ASEAN
50:28and
50:29we
50:29talked
50:29quite
50:30at
50:30length
50:30about
50:31what
50:31we
50:31want
50:32to
50:32see
50:32what
50:33we
50:33hope
50:34to
50:34see
50:34for
50:35the
50:35next
50:3520
50:35years
50:36in
50:36line
50:36with
50:37the
50:37ASEAN
50:37Community
50:37Vision
50:3820
50:3845
50:38but
50:39talking
50:40about
50:43just
50:43what
50:44we
50:44want
50:44to
50:44see
50:44perhaps
50:45we
50:45can
50:45keep
50:45it
50:45quite
50:46short
50:46term
50:46we
50:47have
50:47got
50:47quite
50:47some
50:48time
50:48now
50:48about
50:49another
50:49half
50:50of
50:50the
50:50year
50:50as
50:51Joanne
50:51said
50:52it's
50:52quite
50:52unprecedented
50:53that
50:53a
50:53lot
50:53of
50:53the
50:54documents
50:54a
50:54lot
50:54of
50:55the
50:55visions
50:55has
50:55been
50:55set
50:56out
50:56in
50:56just
50:56the
50:57earlier
50:57part
50:58of
50:58the
50:58year
50:58with
50:59the
50:59ASEAN
50:59Summit
51:00but
51:00for
51:00the
51:00next
51:00six
51:01months
51:01now
51:01Daisy
51:02what
51:02do
51:03you
51:03think
51:03we'll
51:03see
51:04with
51:04ASEAN
51:04for
51:05the
51:05remaining
51:06half
51:06of
51:062025
51:07yeah
51:10I
51:11think
51:11the
51:12uncertainty
51:13condition
51:14geopolitical
51:16condition
51:17is still
51:17uncertain
51:18until
51:21president
51:22until
51:23the next
51:23four years
51:24I think
51:24so
51:25this is
51:25something
51:27that
51:27ASEAN
51:29still
51:29try
51:31to
51:32maybe
51:35discuss
51:37in
51:38next
51:39six
51:40months
51:40when
51:41the
51:41tariff
51:41is
51:41actually
51:41implemented
51:42and
51:43every
51:44ASEAN
51:46countries
51:46will
51:46be
51:47hit
51:48hard
51:48by
51:49the
51:49tariff
51:49and
51:50then
51:50the
51:51situation
51:52will
51:52maybe
51:53quite
51:54different
51:55and
51:55yeah
51:56and
51:57I
51:58think
51:59the
51:59discussion
52:01on the
52:02geopolitical
52:03and
52:04trade
52:05tension
52:05I think
52:05still
52:06ongoing
52:07on
52:07this
52:08year
52:08Joanne
52:10lastly
52:11what do
52:11you think
52:11we can
52:12look out
52:12for
52:12for
52:13the
52:13remaining
52:13few
52:14months
52:14with
52:15Malaysia's
52:16chairmanship
52:17of
52:17ASEAN
52:17I'm
52:18definitely
52:19looking
52:19forward
52:20to
52:20the
52:20second
52:21ASEAN
52:21summit
52:21in
52:22October
52:22because
52:23that's
52:24when
52:24Timor
52:25last
52:25day
52:25is
52:25going
52:25to
52:25be
52:25officially
52:26a
52:26member
52:27of
52:27ASEAN
52:28I'd
52:28like to
52:28see
52:29that
52:29dynamic
52:29and
52:30also
52:31that
52:31summit
52:31will
52:32involve
52:32all
52:33the
52:33external
52:33partners
52:34of
52:34ASEAN
52:34you're
52:35going
52:35to
52:35have
52:35the
52:35East
52:36Asia
52:36summit
52:37and
52:37you're
52:38going
52:38to
52:38have
52:38the
52:38world
52:39leaders
52:39sitting
52:39together
52:40and
52:40then
52:40it
52:40will
52:41be
52:41interesting
52:41to
52:42see
52:42what
52:43sort
52:43of
52:43dynamics
52:44that
52:44will
52:44come
52:44out
52:45from
52:45it
52:46in
52:47the
52:47midst
52:47of
52:47all
52:47this
52:48economic
52:48fragmentation
52:49and
52:50geopolitical
52:50tension
52:51so
52:51I'm
52:51actually
52:52looking
52:52forward
52:52to
52:53that
52:53second
52:54summit
52:54actually
52:54And
52:55Faisal
52:56some
52:56parting
52:56words
52:57what
53:01ASEAN
53:02is
53:02the
53:02Myanmar
53:03military
53:03junta
53:04I
53:04think
53:04they
53:04wanted
53:05to
53:05create
53:05elections
53:07right
53:07so
53:08the
53:09planned
53:09election
53:10by the
53:10military
53:11junta
53:11perhaps
53:12one
53:12the
53:13most
53:13important
53:14challenge
53:15perhaps
53:16for
53:16ASEAN
53:16whether
53:16it
53:17will
53:18lead
53:18to
53:18legitimacy
53:19crisis
53:20where
53:21junta
53:21finally
53:21basically
53:24do not
53:25put
53:26democratic
53:27agenda
53:27in
53:28place
53:28or
53:28perhaps
53:29it
53:29brings
53:31hope
53:32where
53:32Myanmar
53:33can
53:34be
53:35on
53:35path
53:36of
53:36democracy
53:36anymore
53:37so
53:37in
53:37a
53:37way
53:38I
53:38think
53:38we
53:39need
53:39to
53:39see
53:40how
53:40Anwar
53:41Ibrahim's
53:42role
53:42in
53:42positioning
53:43ASEAN
53:43and
53:44particularly
53:46Malaysia
53:46as a
53:46leader
53:47might
53:47pay
53:49off
53:49with
53:50the
53:50diplomacy
53:50with
53:51firm
53:51principle
53:51hopefully
53:52it
53:52pays
53:52off
53:52and
53:53we
53:53see
53:54a
53:54five-point
53:54consensus
53:55to be
53:55fruitful
53:56in the
53:57coming
53:58month
53:58I
53:58think
53:59yeah
53:59yeah
54:00a lot
54:00to look
54:01out
54:01for
54:01for
54:01sure
54:02and
54:02a
54:02lot
54:03of
54:03uncertainty
54:03ahead
54:04but
54:04at
54:04least
54:04we
54:05have
54:05Joanne's
54:05new
54:06playbook
54:06for
54:06ASEAN
54:07to
54:07help
54:08us
54:08see
54:09how
54:09we
54:10can
54:10navigate
54:10these
54:11waters
54:12thank
54:13you
54:13so
54:13much
54:13to
54:13our
54:13panelists
54:14Joanne
54:14Faisal
54:15and
54:15Daisy
54:15for
54:16your
54:16time
54:16today
54:16on
54:16Dialogue
54:17ASEAN
54:1825
54:18sharing
54:19your
54:19thoughts
54:19and
54:20insights
54:20on
54:20how
54:21ASEAN
54:22has
54:22been
54:22faring
54:23and
54:23how
54:23we
54:24can
54:24see
54:24ASEAN
54:25navigating
54:25its
54:26pathway
54:27for
54:27the
54:27future
54:28thank
54:28you
54:29once
54:29again
54:29for
54:29joining
54:29us
54:29on
54:30Dialogue
54:30ASEAN
54:3125
54:31with
54:31me
54:31I
54:31will
54:31catch you
54:32another time
54:32aSEAN
54:33aSEAN
54:34aSEAN
54:35aSEAN
54:36aSEAN