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As Malaysia hosts the ASEAN Summit, can it lead from the middle? This episode of ASEAN KITA, we speak to Collins Chong Yew Keat, Foreign Affairs, Security & Strategy Analyst at Universiti Malaya, to explore Malaysia’s role as ASEAN Chair, the bloc’s future amid U.S.–China rivalry, regional security challenges, and what comes next for Myanmar.
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00:00Hi, good morning and I'm Amir Aiman and you're watching ASEAN Kita, a show where we explore the stories, challenges and opportunities that lies within the region.
00:16As the ASEAN Summit takes place in Kuala Lumpur, this isn't just another round of talks.
00:22It's Malaysia's turn to lead the region and expectations are high.
00:26From navigating US-China rivalry, to dealing with the South China Sea and Myanmar, to shaping ASEAN's digital and green future, this chairmanship matters.
00:37To break it all down, we're joined by Collins Chong-Yu Kiat, Foreign Affairs and Security Analyst from University of Malaya.
00:44Collins, thank you for joining us. Let's start with something basic for our viewers.
00:48For someone at home who's never read an ASEAN communique, how would you explain what the KL Declaration is really about?
00:55And at its core, what issue is it trying to address?
00:59Yes, thank you, Amir Aiman. Good morning.
01:01We have seen how ASEAN has evolved fundamentally since the formation during the height of the Cold War.
01:07And as we can see by now, different challenges.
01:12During the post-Cold War period, initially we have this initial focus on the non-traditional threat settings.
01:18And now, we have seen the return of traditional threats, you know, led by high-intensity conflicts and also the threats of, you know, flashpoints in South China Sea and also different flashpoints throughout the world.
01:32So, and the impact on ASEAN unity, on ASEAN resilience, responses, and of course, we have also seen how the need to evolve into a future-driven, forward-looking ASEAN that can withstand and that can lead regional and global challenges.
01:48And also, collectively as a unit, how we can, you know, manage these internal divisions, internal weariness, internal weaknesses and loopholes.
01:58So, basically, these are all the fundamental core factors of how ASEAN should evolve.
02:03And I think this is all being, you know, included in the collective focus on the Kuala Lumpur Declaration moving forward in the next 20 years by 2045, you know, looking ahead and looking into the future risk settings in terms of, you know, threats facing this region.
02:19So, basically, in all areas of, you know, areas of low politics to areas of high politics, including security, defense, you know, and also, of course, digital economy, the economic transition, capacity, energy transition, supply chain resilience, you know, digital transformation.
02:36So, all these things are being, you know, the one of the core focus areas that we in Malaysia as the chair for this year, you know, are trying to, you know, have this consolidated and synergized approach with regards to this ASEAN collective responses to this evolving and ever-shifting global geopolitical dynamics and also the uncertainties ahead for the next two decades in terms of economic settings and all that.
03:03So, this Kuala Lumpur Declaration is basically trying to capture a new sense of ASEAN renewal and to prevent this, you know, to prevent ASEAN from falling deeper into this whole new realm of irrelevance and, you know, stagnation.
03:18So, I think this is the whole dream of Malaysia trying to assert its, you know, its role as, you know, the regional leader in this aspect, Amirah.
03:26So, sir, I may ask that, do you expect any ASEAN members to push back on the KL declaration?
03:34Which, if so, which ASEAN members is likely to push back hardest on the final wording and why, perhaps?
03:41You know, we have been very careful in terms of our wordings and statements, you know, we have been trying to project this Malaysian centrality and unique position of, you know, strategic aging and balancing against different, you know, rivals.
03:55And, of course, this whole evolving dynamic of power reveries in the region.
04:00And this has been translated into the, you know, greater regional level of maintaining ASEAN, you know, unique model and mantra of neutrality, non-aligned capacity.
04:10And the KL declaration is basically a very, you know, safe haven, it's a safe bet by Malaysia to focus more on areas of global politics, on ensuring internal, you know, unity, addressing internal gaps in terms of intra-trade capacity,
04:26capacity in terms of, you know, an inclusive ASEAN in line with the team for this year, also to ensure that, you know, there's this future-driven, forward-looking economic progress and joint capacity in all these different areas,
04:39including science and technology, of course, of course, also in terms of digital transformation.
04:44So, all these are being, you know, seen as, you know, areas of global politics that can have greater, you know, leverage on all these, on the collective concerns and the collective needs of all ASEAN members.
04:58So, I don't foresee any, you know, kind of resistance in that aspect, except for areas of high politics, which we have been trying not to, you know, focus that much on because of the need to get the buy-in from different ASEAN members.
05:13So, in terms of, you know, the confrontation and the urgency, you know, and the urgency to, you know, in ensuring that COC is being, you know, initiated and being collectively, you know, agreed upon.
05:24So, a lot of these, you know, concerns of the future are being, you know, addressed in KL declaration and I don't foresee any kind of, you know, strong resistance from ASEAN members,
05:36except for, you know, issues regarding Myanmar, for example, which has been standing out as a sore thumb in terms of, you know, this perception of ASEAN being a weak entity with no credible, you know, enforcing power and also addressing its own internal, you know, issues.
05:54So, of course, also in standing up against the actions by China, for example, in South China Sea and also the different concerns, different responses by ASEAN members with regards to these actions by China and also the new power presence from external, you know, capacity in terms of, you know, the new power reverie in the region.
06:12So, all in all, health declaration, I would argue is a very safe bet, nothing substantial on how, you know, ASEAN can move forward in terms of increasing its own, you know, deterrence capacity against major powers,
06:25but focusing more on things that, you know, you know, are of great concerns to all ASEAN members on economy, on investments, on trade, on, you know, inclusive development, on, in addressing, you know, trans-bondary crimes, in addressing development gaps.
06:41So, these are the things on giving more, you know, education capacities and all that.
06:45So, these are the things that I think will be of great, you know, will be of main areas of interest for the KL declaration.
06:50All right, Collins, Malaysia came into this championship with clear priorities like digital cooperation, food security, and green finance.
06:59Since January, which of these areas have we actually seen real movement or results on?
07:04We have seen quite a very, you know, general positive, robust response from Malaysia as we know that we have been moving very strongly in terms of, you know, our own energy transition,
07:16our economic transition based on digital transformation, green energy, of course, also on green economy, on blue economy now as a one-time trading nation.
07:25So, these are all being translated into how we also want the same, you know, momentum to be, you know, to be seen at the ASEAN level, the wider ASEAN level of how we would like to, you know, move ASEAN forward.
07:37In terms of, like, of course, food security maintaining a very robust, resilient supply chain system and to ensure that we increase our intra-ASEAN trade and, of course, to focus more on ASEAN as a collective economic entity as a result of the terrorist war and all that.
07:52So, and, of course, all this talks about, you know, the capacity of ASEAN, you know, collectively as a unit in terms of demographic potential, increasing younger population that will inject new dynamism into the workforce.
08:07Of course, also in areas of, you know, digital setting, you know, increasing cyber awareness, cyber security threats and all that, and on the aspects of non-traditional threat setting.
08:17So, I will say that, you know, all in all, in all these aspects, we have been, you know, at the forefront in leading ASEAN momentum, ASEAN intent, but not so at the level of which will be of great concerns to all ASEAN members and, of course, also to individual ASEAN members with regards to, you know, defending the rules-based order, defending the sanctity of the international and maritime law, also standing up very strongly against aggressions or actions by external powers in disrupting
08:47or in disregarding the international law, that will, of course, have a profound impact on the, you know, the sanctity of sovereignty and territorial integrity of ASEAN as a whole, and also, of course, on ASEAN individual member states.
09:01We have been refraining from, you know, at a very high level, at least publicly, to push very deeply on all these matters, which is why ASEAN is now being seen by Washington and the West as a lost cause in standing up for this, you know, rules-based order,
09:16and the international norms, and to push back against, you know, against aggressions or bellicosity in flashpoints such as sub-China sea, and also potential flashpoints that might impact us, you know, the potential Taiwan fallout,
09:30also the increasing Chinese presence in the Indian Ocean or the Pacific Island states, which are not being addressed, you know, deeply or chronically at the ASEAN level.
09:39And Collins, we have also seen strong engagement from Washington, both Washington and Beijing at this summit.
09:44One pushing for a special meeting, and the other is strengthening its economic links with the region.
09:49In your view, how well is Malaysia has, as a chair, maintained a genuine neutrality amid all of this geopolitics struggle within the region, Collins?
10:00Yeah, we have been, you know, relying on this, you know, decades-old mantra of strategic, you know, hedging, balancing,
10:09trying to play as the, you know, neutral, you know, role in all this, you know, evolving power reverie.
10:17And we hope that ASEAN can maintain the same stance, and of course also not to be aligned to any particular power.
10:23And of course, you know, this has opened up even greater risk for the region.
10:27And I will argue that, you know, this decades-old mantra of neutrality and strategic, you know, hedging, you know, has not worked out well for ASEAN.
10:34Because we have seen even greater incursions, we have seen even greater power penetration in the region.
10:40And with all these mechanisms that we have in place, we have the TAC, Treaty of Amity and Cooperation,
10:45we have the Surface Asian Nuclear Weapon Free Zoot, we have the old concept of Zopfan,
10:51and of course also, you know, non-interference concept and all that.
10:54So all these have failed to deter, you know, even greater power presence here.
10:58We have increased Chinese power projections.
11:02We have also seen, as a result of this increased Chinese power projection,
11:07and the eventual weariness and fears of ASEAN member states as a result of this action,
11:12and, you know, have also invited greater counter-responses, counter-forces by the West,
11:18which are needed by ASEAN.
11:20But, you know, we can't admit that publicly for the fear of, you know, upsetting the April card.
11:26But, you know, in hindsight, behind the scenes, we actually welcome greater power presence
11:30in terms of having these greater deterrent effects,
11:34and raising the cost for the foreign powers to increase these medical sections here.
11:39So all these have not turned out well for ASEAN.
11:43We have seen how deeply divided ASEAN is in terms of responding to this power presence
11:48by external forces, and, you know, we have Manila now having its own, you know,
11:54responses to this issue in South China Sea.
11:56We have a very divided ASEAN in terms of how best to ensure ASEAN's safety and security,
12:01and knowing that collectively, we don't stand a chance in terms of having this combined deterrent capacity,
12:07and we still are very much in reliant, you know, on the Western power,
12:11especially in Washington, in, you know, backing us, supporting us militarily,
12:16and in all aspects of power, including, of course, on economic terms,
12:20in terms of getting the technologies, being reliant on US markets and all that.
12:25So in our quest, in ASEAN's quest to get the best of both worlds,
12:29we have been relying on Beijing for, you know, most of our economic and, you know, technological support,
12:34but at the same time, we are very much heavily reliant on Washington in terms of getting us this credit backing.
12:41So we can't do this model forever because getting the best out of both worlds
12:45without offering, you know, credible returns to both powers,
12:50so we will only signal, you know, the irrelevance of this mantra of ASEAN neutrality.
12:56So for as long as we are reliant on external powers for all these support systems,
13:02we are very much, you know, in our own self-imposed trap of this model that has our view field to,
13:08to, you know, bring ASEAN forward as compared to what EU has done
13:12with a very different contextual historical, you know, pretext as compared to ASEAN.
13:18Well, we're just getting started on today's episode, but we'll take a quick break.
13:22Still ahead, can ASEAN stay neutral in an increasingly polarized world
13:27and how should Malaysia lead through the region's toughest challenges?
13:31We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back after this.
13:48Welcome back to ASEAN Kita and I'm still joined by Collins Chong
13:51as we continue looking at Malaysia's leadership at the ASEAN Summit
13:56and what it means for the region's future amid global uncertainty.
14:00Collins, looking ahead, US-China rivalry doesn't seem to be cooling anytime soon.
14:05If this continues, where do you honestly see ASEAN's rule five years from now?
14:11Will we be a broker or a buffer or perhaps just a bystander?
14:15We have been trying to serve, you know, the best interest of both sides
14:19and by, you know, trying to mediate and trying not to be sucking
14:23into this increasing security dilemma, arms races, power reveries.
14:27But to not avail, I would argue that we have a failed approach
14:31for the past five to six decades.
14:33We tried that approach during the Cold War
14:35and now it's a totally different setting.
14:38We have seen how, despite all the mechanisms that we have in place
14:41to prevent war, to prevent, you know, deterioration in terms of tension,
14:45and conflict, we have failed to do that.
14:47And, of course, also, we have also failed to address individual concerns
14:51by ASEAN member states, you know, with different agenda,
14:54with different responses, with different affiliations,
14:57and also, of course, also internal awareness with one another.
15:01So all these mechanisms, you know, unlike what the EU has done,
15:05EU is born out of basically, you know, the aftermath of the world wars
15:08and, of course, insecurity, the concerns of another world war,
15:13you know, dooms large, you know, in terms of their initial calculations.
15:17And that's why they have this institutional backing,
15:19they have governance oversight,
15:21and they have this very strong defensive alliance, security alliance,
15:24to ensure that, you know, their main concerns are addressed.
15:28But unlike us, we don't have that in place.
15:30And, of course, we have, you know, very distinct,
15:33very different, you know, responses, grousers, concerns,
15:36and those are not being addressed by ASEAN as a whole.
15:39And dependence and alliance and affiliations with external powers
15:42are seen as, you know, giving more returns
15:46to address these concerns by individual ASEAN member states
15:49as compared to what ASEAN can offer to them.
15:51You know, knowing that ASEAN as a unit collectively,
15:54you know, does not have this, simply does not have this,
15:57you know, military or power capacity to defend ASEAN
16:00against these external, you know, projections of power and aggressions.
16:05And all of us are cognizant that we are still very much reliant
16:08on the West or even on other powers, including Russia,
16:12as a welcome, maybe third power force in the region.
16:16So to have this strong deterrence impact
16:19on these actions by China, for example.
16:22So as long as this exists,
16:23and also looking into the overall dynamic power play
16:27between Beijing and Washington,
16:29I would argue that, you know,
16:30Beijing is now, you know, peaking in terms of power.
16:33And, you know, as compared to traditional norms that,
16:36you know, you know, US is in decline and all that,
16:39we can see that by almost all power indicators,
16:42Washington will still retain is, of course,
16:44military hard power dominance.
16:46Also in terms of economic, you know, mind,
16:49in terms of its favorable demographic potential in the future
16:52as compared to China with its aging population,
16:55China will get old faster than when they get rich.
16:58So in terms of also how the internal system economic decline
17:01and, you know, for this notion of ASEAN being heavily reliant
17:04on Chinese economic settings from RCEP to BRI to investments
17:09and all that, this, you know, a peak China with, you know,
17:13the start of its own decline will also spell, you know,
17:16major changes in terms of this whole economic ecosystem
17:20of being too reliant on China as the economic backing.
17:24And at the same time, we can see that, you know,
17:26in the next decade, this, you know, the risk of conflicts
17:29over Taiwan and the fallout from the Taiwan conflict
17:32or also maybe in the Indian Ocean or the Pacific Island states
17:35are profound on ASEAN as a whole.
17:38But we are yet to have this kind of shield,
17:41this kind of, you know, credible deterrent capacity.
17:44And, you know, moving forward in the next four to five years,
17:47even before 2045, in all of the hype to have this KL declaration
17:51by 2045, we don't have a credible ASEAN, you know,
17:54defensive mechanism.
17:56And by then, if we still are to continue with this approach
18:00of, you know, getting the best out of both worlds,
18:03in the end, we will be trapped.
18:04And, you know, the vulnerabilities are too high for ASEAN as a whole.
18:08You know, not getting the support needed from Washington
18:10because in Trump's eyes, you know, ASEAN collectively,
18:13we have, you know, in terms of average per capita income,
18:15we are just five to six thousand on average at the ASEAN level,
18:18which is not being seen as favourable by Washington
18:22because of this low buying power, low demand,
18:24and still being trapped as a middle-income entity.
18:27Of course, as a middle power, we don't have yet the sufficient
18:29leverage and influence on global affairs as much as we want to.
18:33So with this declining, you know, returns to Washington,
18:37especially under Trump administration,
18:39they will not be willing to increase its power presence here
18:42and we will be losing in terms of getting the needed
18:44defence support from the U.S.
18:46while at the same time, in our quest to expand
18:48our economic financial efforts with GCC,
18:51with, you know, Global South and with China,
18:54they are also declining in terms of their economic powers
18:56despite all the hypes.
18:58And, you know, in the end, we will be trapped.
19:00And this is the thing that, of course,
19:02also during the presidential transition later on,
19:04after Trump 2.0,
19:06this will be the period where we think will be of,
19:09which I will argue that will be of great concern
19:11because by then, greater uncertainties abound
19:13where, you know, Beijing might flex this muscle more
19:16and in terms of, you know,
19:18preventing this American dominance in the next decade.
19:20So all these have been taken into account
19:22and I will say that if we don't change now,
19:24if ASEAN doesn't have the audacity to be,
19:26to escape from this trap of, you know,
19:28neutrality and centrality,
19:30we will be at the losing end for ASEAN as a whole
19:33in security terms, Amirud.
19:35And when we talk about ASEAN's issues,
19:39there's quite a number of them
19:40and the South China Sea remains a flashpoint
19:42and accidents are always just one miscalculation away.
19:47What practical steps do you think can ASEAN take this year
19:49to manage that risk more effectively?
19:53We have been trying to manage those risks more effectively
19:56as you have stated just now.
19:59For years now, we have the DOC
20:01and now we are trying to hasten the completion of the COC.
20:05But I will argue if,
20:07even if the COC is agreed upon it and it's in place,
20:10there's no guarantee that it won't be, you know,
20:13being disregarded as much as how, you know,
20:16you know, Beijing can disregard the decisions
20:18by the court in 2016.
20:21Those are the, you know,
20:23the international law
20:25and those are the maritime laws.
20:26They are in place to safeguard the norms and all that.
20:30But if those can be, you know, being disregarded
20:32and what more if COC is in place?
20:35So, to me, you know,
20:36all the while,
20:37ASEAN and Malaysia have been too much reliant
20:39on diplomacy and dialogue
20:41as the first sign of defense,
20:42which is, of course, the norms.
20:44But we don't have a credible second backing
20:46of, you know,
20:47a very robust, credible, future-driven
20:49and long-term, you know,
20:51support system for ASEAN as a whole
20:53in terms of hard power
20:54and defense support externally.
20:57So, for as much as we were to be reliant
20:59on this aspect,
21:00if that fails,
21:02then we are sitting ducks
21:03against these future threats,
21:05you know,
21:05or these new future warfares
21:06of drone capacity.
21:08We don't have sufficient,
21:10you know,
21:10anti-missile system,
21:12you know,
21:12air defense system
21:12for ASEAN as a whole,
21:14you know,
21:15in defending this new generation
21:17missile, you know,
21:18system and air power.
21:20So, all this make ASEAN
21:22even more vulnerable
21:22in all these aspects.
21:24And for South Tennessee,
21:25we have seen how we have failed
21:26to deter or to send a strong message
21:28out of this, you know,
21:29fear and retaliation
21:31from Beijing
21:32in terms of the economic grip
21:34and economic tool.
21:35And for as long as we are trapped
21:36in this mantra,
21:37we won't get the best
21:38of the deterrent support
21:39from Washington
21:40knowing that, you know,
21:41we have been,
21:42you know,
21:43failing to stand up
21:44strongly against
21:45these violations
21:46of the international law
21:47and maritime groups
21:48and for what reason
21:50that they will have
21:50to increase their support
21:51if we are not even,
21:53you know,
21:54taking the charge here
21:55in terms of,
21:55you know,
21:56bolstering our own
21:57defense capacity,
21:58especially under Trump administration.
21:59So, of course,
22:00in regards to the tariff law,
22:01we have been trying to,
22:02you know,
22:03get this solidified response
22:04to go against the tariffs
22:06and to stand up
22:07very strongly.
22:08This will even create
22:09more pretext
22:09for the Trump administration
22:10to, you know,
22:13detach itself more
22:14from this region
22:15which will leave us
22:16even more vulnerable.
22:17So, I think it's a very foolish
22:19and unwise move
22:20for ASEAN as a whole
22:21to affiliate more
22:22with this, you know,
22:23China-led anti-tariff,
22:25you know, approach.
22:26You know,
22:26Australia has refrained
22:27from joining that
22:28and we should not join
22:29a bandwagon of,
22:30you know,
22:31standing up very strongly
22:32against the tariff
22:33because we are still
22:33very much reliant
22:34on the American market
22:35being the biggest economy,
22:36being the wealthiest economy
22:37on earth
22:38and of course
22:38in terms of,
22:39you know,
22:39the overall need
22:40for defence support
22:41and also technological investments.
22:43So, these are things
22:43I think that ASEAN
22:44we need to have
22:45a very hard practical look
22:46into all this
22:47and it needs to be,
22:49you know,
22:49honest with all the
22:50current loopholes and gaps
22:51and how we move forward
22:53will depend on how
22:54Malaysia as a chair
22:55for this year
22:55can initiate all these
22:56changes moving forward.
22:58Collins,
22:59I want to bring this
22:59conversation to Myanmar.
23:01Myanmar remains
23:02one of the thorniest
23:03challenges on the table
23:04and the five-point consensus
23:06clearly isn't working.
23:07Do you think
23:08Malaysia should now
23:09lead the bloc
23:10in pushing for tougher action
23:12or is it time
23:12to throw out
23:13the old playbook
23:14and try something new
23:15altogether?
23:16Of course,
23:17I've been arguing
23:18that the five-pc,
23:19the five-point consensus
23:20has been obsolete.
23:21We have been
23:22harping on that
23:22for years now
23:23to no avail.
23:24For the past
23:24three to four years,
23:25ASEAN has clearly
23:26failed to bring
23:28any practical solutions
23:29to Myanmar
23:29because of the fact
23:30that, you know,
23:31each has his own agenda.
23:32We are still
23:33ignorant of the
23:34crosses or concerns
23:35of Thailand.
23:35We have,
23:36we have sideline Thailand
23:37in that aspect previously.
23:38So I think
23:38I allowed the efforts
23:41by our current
23:41Prime Minister
23:42to have a bold new
23:43approach
23:44to the whole
23:44Myanmar crisis
23:45and of course
23:46not being confined
23:47to pass,
23:48you know,
23:49barriers and traps
23:50and it is time
23:51to, you know,
23:52focus on both sides
23:54because for the past
23:55three to four years,
23:55ASEAN has not been
23:56wanting to give
23:57any form of legitimacy
23:58to the junta.
23:59Of course,
24:00also not granting
24:01NUG,
24:01the official
24:01legitimate recognition.
24:03So it's like
24:04we are stuck
24:05between a rock
24:06and a harpist.
24:07So this is a time
24:08where, you know,
24:09Trump's approach
24:10of common sense policy,
24:12you know,
24:12for example,
24:13in Ukraine,
24:14you know,
24:14having this notion
24:15to meet,
24:16to have contact
24:17with Putin
24:17and of course
24:19during the first term
24:19to meet also
24:20with Kim Jong-un.
24:21So in any form
24:22of conflicts,
24:23you need to engage
24:24with both sides
24:25and it will be
24:26futile for you
24:27to only, you know,
24:28focus on the
24:29traditional aspects
24:29of conflict management.
24:30So if Biden
24:32were to continue
24:33his presidency,
24:34we can see that,
24:35you know,
24:35he will continue
24:36his old approach
24:36of only giving,
24:38injecting,
24:38you know,
24:39capital and,
24:39you know,
24:40military infrastructure
24:41to Ukraine
24:41and this will
24:42prolong the conflict.
24:43You know,
24:43when Trump comes
24:44into the picture,
24:46he foresees
24:47the common sense
24:48approach needed
24:48and ASEAN
24:49should do the same,
24:50not being confined
24:51to this traditional
24:52approach of only,
24:53you know,
24:54having this one approach
24:55to solve the conflicts
24:56and this whole notion
24:58of perception
25:00of ASEAN being weak,
25:01being confined,
25:02being limited
25:02by its,
25:03you know,
25:03non-interference agenda
25:05and all that
25:05will only increase
25:07because of this,
25:08you know,
25:09the stagnant,
25:11you know,
25:12options that we have now.
25:13So it is of great
25:14importance
25:15and it is of great
25:16urgency for Malaysia
25:17now to be able
25:18to have the audacity
25:19to create a new
25:21bold approach,
25:22not being confined
25:22to the five-point
25:23consensus
25:23and to understand
25:24the main core concerns
25:26and fears and threats
25:28being faced by both sides,
25:29both for HUNTA
25:30and also the NUG.
25:32And of course,
25:33the five-point consensus
25:33should not be the sole,
25:35you know,
25:36factor that will still
25:37stand in the way
25:38of, you know,
25:39Myanmar moving forward
25:40and, you know,
25:41Myanmar
25:42and also the need
25:43to have this
25:43external power forces,
25:46external power influence
25:47to assert the right
25:48carrot and stick approach
25:49on Myanmar,
25:50on the HUNTA
25:51and also on NUG
25:52because we have been
25:53so complacent,
25:54we have been trying
25:54to say that this is,
25:55look,
25:56this is our problem
25:56and, you know,
25:57the Americans
25:58or the Chinese
25:58or the Indians
25:59should not play a part
26:00in this.
26:01This is a wrong approach
26:02because for Myanmar,
26:03you know,
26:04ASEAN might not be
26:04that important
26:05to Myanmar's,
26:06you know,
26:06or the HUNTA's
26:07immediate future
26:08and we will need
26:10the influence,
26:11the pressure
26:12that we don't have,
26:13ASEAN collectively,
26:14but which Washington has
26:16and Beijing has
26:17or New Delhi has
26:18or even Moscow has
26:19to also play their parts
26:20and to equip this
26:21also with the peace
26:23process in Ukraine now
26:24and how Myanmar
26:25can also complement
26:26the peace efforts
26:26in Ukraine
26:27with regards to,
26:28you know,
26:28what Beijing and Moscow,
26:30I mean,
26:30Moscow and Washington
26:31have been doing
26:31for the past few weeks.
26:33So we have to break out
26:34of our old trap
26:35and, you know,
26:37mantra of ASEAN
26:38unique approach
26:39and to let go
26:40and to finally get
26:42the strategy engagement
26:43from external powers
26:44which have direct,
26:45you know,
26:46influence
26:47and also power
26:48on both the HUNTA
26:49and NUG
26:49and to rope in
26:50the role of
26:51Washington,
26:52Beijing
26:53and of course
26:54also New Delhi
26:55as the main
26:56power brokers
26:56for the Myanmar issue.
26:58I mean,
26:58I would like to thank
27:00Mr. Collins Chong Yukiad
27:02for the deep dive
27:03into ASEAN's
27:04big picture challenges
27:05from security
27:05to strategy
27:06to leadership
27:07and where Malaysia
27:08stands in the middle
27:09of it all.
27:10As the summit continues,
27:11we'll be watching closely
27:12to see if ASEAN
27:14can turn unity
27:15into action.
27:16Well, I guess
27:16it's all the time
27:17for today's episode
27:19of ASEAN KITA.
27:20I'm Amir Rehman.
27:21We'll see you next time
27:22on ASEAN KITA.
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