- 8 months ago
- #considerthis
In the wake of the 46th ASEAN Summit that was held in KL recently, the spotlight is once again on regional economic integration—an idea long championed, but unevenly realised. At the centre of this conversation is the ASEAN Business Advisory Council—a body set up in 2003 to ensure the region’s private sector has a direct voice in shaping ASEAN’s economic agenda. So where is ASEAN’s economic integration really headed, and what’s holding it back? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Tan Sri Nazir Razak, Chairperson of the ASEAN Business Advisory Council Malaysia, Tan Sri Tony Fernandes, Council Member of ASEAN-BAK Malaysia, and CEO of Capital A Berhad, and Lim Chern Yuan, a Council Member of ASEAN-BAK Malaysia, and Group CEO of Yinson Holdings Berhad.
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00:00Hello and good evening. I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This. This is the show
00:24where we want you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day. In the
00:29wake of the 46th ASEAN Summit that was held in KL recently, the spotlight is once again
00:34on regional economic integration, the idea long championed but unevenly realised. At the
00:43centre of this conversation is the ASEAN Business Advisory Council, a body that was set up in
00:492003 to ensure the region's private sector has a direct voice in shaping ASEAN's economic
00:55agenda. So where is ASEAN's economic integration really headed and what is holding it back?
01:02So today on the show, to help us dissect this further, are three of Malaysia's foremost business
01:08leaders. If I may introduce Tan Sri Nazirazak, Chairperson of the ASEAN Business Advisory Council,
01:13Malaysia. Tan Sri Tony Fernandez, council member of ASEAN Park Malaysia and CEO of Capital A,
01:19Berhad and Lim Chen Yuan, who is also known as CY, who is also a council member of ASEAN Park Malaysia
01:27and Group CEO of Yinsen Holdings Berhad. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being
01:32here today. So this week has been ASEAN, ASEAN, ASEAN. So we're going to continue that theme of a conversation.
01:40But look at regional economic integration. Because ASEAN always prides itself as being
01:47one of the fastest growing economic blocks globally, we always talk about a rising consumer
01:52market. But I want to hear from the three of you what that means in practical business terms.
01:58How integrated or not is ASEAN's economy today? Tan Sri, if I may begin with you.
02:05Tan Sri, if I may begin with you. Thank you and thank you for having us. I think the way to
02:10look at it is this. In 2007, we had the ASEAN Charter that set the agenda for the formation
02:20of the ASEAN Economic Community by 2015. However, when it came to 2015, ASEAN didn't quite look like
02:31what was promised, which was a single production base, free movement of skilled labour, free
02:37movement of capital, etc. So ASEAN fell short. This is not to say that much was not achieved
02:44because there was a lot of progress. But certainly that was too big a dream. Too big a dream to
02:52believe that ASEAN would become the European Union. That is not something that is practical nor desirable in the
03:02mind of most people. So if we look at the situation today, we would say that ASEAN is too fragmented.
03:11Intra ASEAN trade investment is lower than it should be. So there's a lot of work to do. So that's why
03:22bodies like ASEAN BAK, etc., every year we try and push the agenda on more and more integration.
03:29Okay. All right. So the idea of having a kind of single market, single production base was too big of a dream,
03:37but there needs to be more integration. It's far too fragmented.
03:41Yes, we don't want to be EU, but there's too little now. Okay. Right. So if you then dive into details,
03:47if we look at trade, intra-ASEAN trade is about 22% of total trade. EU is about 60%.
03:56But we cannot be like EU because our economies are more integrated with the US, China and so on and so forth.
04:04So what is the right number? We don't know, but I would think it's maybe about 30%.
04:08So it needs to be higher. And then what are the issues? Then you go into issues like the free trade area.
04:16But yet we have a lot of non-trade barriers. That's one of those issues.
04:22There's a lot of, essentially, when investors come to ASEAN, we promote the 700 million market.
04:30But a lot of investors complain that when they arrive here, when they start doing business, it's still too fragmented.
04:35Okay. This is quite interesting. Can I get a sense from you, Tony?
04:38This narrative that ASEAN is young, it's growing, it's resilient.
04:43But when you talk to other business operators, you talk to investors or partners outside the region,
04:49what are they asking and what do you tell them about the misconceptions or concerns that you find yourself constantly having to correct?
04:59Yeah. So just to add to Tanshi Nase, personally, I would like to be more like the European Union.
05:08Not on the political front, but on the trading front.
05:11Okay.
05:12So I think the EU has been a great success and I think the UK is now seeing that actually leaving the EU was detrimental to their economy.
05:22And so they're now trying to find ways to go back in.
05:25So from a trading and an economic block, the EU, as other regional economic unions have been very successful.
05:32I think the EU probably, you know, in terms of politics and regulations and all those things,
05:38probably is way, way ahead or maybe never even needed in terms of ASEAN.
05:44But in terms of creating a single trading block, that's very important.
05:47Going back to your question, and as I kind of touched on it as well, is we're not a single market.
05:56A foreign investor coming in has to set up 10 companies, has to deal with different regulations.
06:03And so the economy of size, which people are excited about, 700 million people, is not fully met.
06:10Right.
06:11The efficiencies are not fully met.
06:13Having said that, if you take my own experience of AirAsia, I think we created an ASEAN company and have really made ASEAN a smaller place by integrating it.
06:24But it's complicated.
06:25We've had to have five different airlines.
06:28We have five different regulations, different ownership regulations, etc.
06:34We could be substantially bigger and help the ASEAN economies if we had one aviation authority, one regulation, one ownership structure.
06:45And so the markets there, companies such as us, Grab, CIMB, Lion Group, etc., have all taken advantage of this 700 million people.
06:57But I think from where I'm sitting, it could be much bigger, which would add to the GDP, add to the prosperity of the ASEAN people.
07:08Could I get you to elaborate?
07:09A slight, slight change.
07:10I'm thrilled.
07:11Because for years and years and years, and hopefully you'll ask me about this later, ASEAN is not just economic, it's cultural, it's sporting links, etc.
07:20And just to very quickly say that I'm thrilled that for the first time that I can remember, there was an ASEAN United football team that totally outplayed Manchester United, one of the worst teams in the Premier League, and won 1-0.
07:36So we are moving that there was an ASEAN team on the sports field.
07:41And, you know, we've been talking about many, many ASEAN things, which hopefully you'll ask me about later.
07:47So there is progress, but of course there's businessmen, we want it to be faster.
07:51Yeah, I understand.
07:52I think we've just got our first viral clip from the show.
07:55We're going to take that sound bite from you.
07:57I just need you to elaborate a little bit what you mean by the, I want to ask you what the most frustrating regulatory challenges are.
08:06When you talked about the AirAsia experience of wanting to tap into this market, how did you, what were the kind of regulatory barriers or market access challenges that you think shouldn't have been there in the first place?
08:22So let's go through the overarching, which again, as I brought up, is the non-tariff barriers.
08:29You know, we all talk about free trade or free access to the market, but then there are all these invisible little walls that stop you.
08:37So number one is ownership.
08:39We're only allowed to own 49% of each of our airlines outside of Malaysia as a Malaysian company.
08:46That leaves a very poor capital structure, and also for outside investors, a confusing capital structure.
08:56Now we've been working on that.
08:59Cambodia now allows majority.
09:02Philippines, we're now allowed to own 100%, and we do.
09:06And so the process is moving.
09:08Yeah.
09:09That's one.
09:10And then, without getting too technical, but I'm sure this applies to many, many businesses, even the halal business when you look at it.
09:17We, as an airline, have 10 different regulatory authorities with 10 different sets of rules, just on becoming a pilot.
09:27Each country has a different set of rules.
09:31In Europe, there is one.
09:33In Europe, there is one aviation authority, EASA, which governs the aviation industry.
09:39There is one air traffic controller, right?
09:42So when we're flying from one part of ASEAN to another, we may pass through three air traffic controllers.
09:48Right.
09:49And, you know, this leads to inefficiency and higher prices, and you know the rest.
09:56I can go on.
09:58So really, Naze's point is a point.
10:01We're not one market.
10:03We market ourselves as this ASEAN market.
10:06That's fine, yes.
10:07We can get to it, and AirAsia, amongst other companies, have shown a way.
10:13But I would like to be Ryanair or EasyJet, which really are seen as a European airline.
10:20We've been campaigning to be an ASEAN airline.
10:22There is, in the ASEAN charter, the needs for an ASEAN community carrier.
10:29But even, you know, when we own an airline in Cambodia, and we're a majority, the Thais
10:35are saying, you're not a Cambodian airline.
10:37And I have to go through, you know, I'm showing the ASEAN letters, I'm showing all of this,
10:42and I'm still having issues.
10:44So these are the kind of frustrations that the business community faces, and under Naze's
10:50leadership, that ABAC is trying to eradicate these invisible walls and non-tariff barriers.
10:57And really, my point is, there is still a little bit of nationalism everywhere, right?
11:02And that's probably, but trade groups have shown that everyone wins in the end.
11:10You only have to go to any university and study the successes of the European community,
11:14or Moscouro in South America, and even in Africa.
11:19Trade unions win.
11:20Some industries will lose out, some will gain.
11:23But overall, the economy benefits from a free trade environment.
11:27Okay.
11:28Si Wai, can I get your perspective, your experience, your observations?
11:32Where you see are the biggest gaps, the biggest unrealized potential?
11:37Just based on your experience with Yinseng.
11:40I think ASEAN as a whole, the size, the potential is huge, right?
11:45And I mean, the reality is, like we said, is fragmented.
11:49Different languages, different culture, and different stage of progress, right?
11:54In every single country, right?
11:56But I think that that's really the strength as well, right?
11:59As ASEAN as a whole, we do have a lot going for us, right?
12:04We have countries with cheap supply of gas.
12:08We have countries with a lot of potential solar, potential wind power in Vietnam.
12:15We have hydros from Laos, right?
12:17We've got a lot.
12:18And saying energy is a scarcity today, right?
12:22Everybody's talking about the levels of price of your energy and all.
12:26And I think there's a huge potential because, you know, you have hubs like Singapore,
12:31which is a global financial hub, right?
12:33And it's able to fund these projects, right?
12:35We have users that need this power, you know, throughout this demand.
12:39But we just need to connect ASEAN, you know, from the financial perspective,
12:43the infrastructure perspective.
12:45And building that infra will have a lot of multiply effect, right?
12:48On the maritime side, right?
12:50You need ships, you need factories to build, you need the supply chain, you know?
12:54And these are very interesting projects because, I mean, this week we saw the ASEAN grid being signed.
12:59And I think, as it will take many years to do, it goes through a few borders and all.
13:04But if it's done, right, I mean, these cables, which Europe already has, right,
13:10will be able to transmit power much faster, you know, being able to tap on the strength of different countries, right?
13:16And it's a good example of if we integrate the countries, you know, the will to put things together,
13:23I think we'll be able to, as a whole, lower our energy price, right?
13:27And that gives ASEAN, right, and the industries, right, lower sustainable green power, right?
13:35You know, to produce more, right, for the rest of the world, right?
13:39The potential is enormous, if we can get it right, if the implementation is right.
13:44Tan Sri, the ASEAN BUCK has given 12 initiatives as recommendations.
13:52Talk to me about them.
13:54Which ones you think will have the most transformative impact on this?
14:00Well, certainly our flagship idea is called the ASEAN Business Entity.
14:06So, what is it?
14:08Basically, as I said earlier, we've now discovered that ASEAN can't, at least in our lifetimes,
14:15achieve this free movement of people and free movement of capital and so on and so on.
14:18There will always be these political constraints on those things.
14:26But yet, at the same time, we want to position ourselves as a market of 700 million people.
14:31So, how do you square the circle?
14:33Right.
14:34Well, the way we do it is to basically, why not enable those kind of flexibilities at the company level, right?
14:40So, if we say AirAsia is an ABE, right, in AirAsia Malaysia is an ABE,
14:47then we should allow AirAsia to move its Thais, its Indonesians into Malaysia and work freely,
14:53for as long as they work for AirAsia.
14:55We should allow AirAsia to outsource its operations outside Malaysia freely.
15:00So, what you will see is that, on the operational front,
15:03AirAsia would then realise the economies of scale of ASEAN as a whole.
15:10So, that is our flagship idea.
15:12We have 11 others.
15:15I won't go through them one by one.
15:17But it also includes introducing the notion of an ASEAN IPO prospectus.
15:22So, if you wanted to list on bursa, you can choose whether you want a domestic prospectus,
15:28where you can raise money from Malaysians, or you want an ASEAN prospectus,
15:32where you can raise money from all ASEAN markets that recognise this ASEAN prospectus.
15:36So, having those options.
15:37Talk to me a bit more about ABE.
15:39It's an interesting proposition.
15:41I'm sure businesses want to get behind it.
15:43But, are there challenges to making this a reality?
15:47What are the barriers that you see that may hinder this from being implemented well?
15:53Well, I think, for a start, the beauty of this idea is that it does not require reciprocity.
16:00It doesn't.
16:01So, Malaysia can just go ahead.
16:02And do it.
16:03And do it.
16:04Whether Indonesia does it, or Thailand does it, it doesn't matter.
16:07That's how easy it is.
16:09Then, if you talk about the hindrances, well, it's always going to be difficult
16:16because it involves multiple stakeholders, multiple ministries.
16:19So, for instance, movement of people would require home ministry.
16:24I think if you ask the trade ministry, they're very much in favour of this idea,
16:27but the home ministry will have concerns and so on.
16:30So, one has to tackle all these things.
16:36But I think if the government actually sits down and thinks about it,
16:41this is actually a very innovative yet very simple way of realising this economy.
16:48Do you see any unintended consequences?
16:51Because for me, where I'm sitting, this sounds like an interesting proposition.
16:54I would be interested to see this being implemented.
16:57Do you see any unintended consequences from it, from not being adopted?
17:02Honestly, I don't.
17:03And because of that, people are saying, you know, I meet some officials who say,
17:07it's too good to be true, it's too easy.
17:10Too easy, too good to be true.
17:11Okay.
17:12But I suppose, you know, there are issues if you say, okay, you come and work,
17:16and I give you freedom to work, and then you behave badly, and so on and so on.
17:23So, there has to be some guardrails here and there.
17:25But I think those are all very, very manageable.
17:27Easily implemented.
17:28Very, very manageable.
17:29And for your information, we actually have signed support for this idea from across businesses in the region,
17:38across sectors, and also multinationals.
17:40The European ASEAN Business Council, the Japanese ASEAN Business Council,
17:45all have signed off that they like this idea.
17:48Okay.
17:49So, it's for ASEAN companies, but also for multinationals.
17:52Does Malaysia, as ASEAN Chair, like this idea?
17:55I think so.
17:56Okay.
17:57But it has to go through the various government bodies.
18:00We certainly have support from the Ministry of Trade and so on,
18:04but it has to go through the other ministries as well.
18:10Okay.
18:37Okay, all right. So that's one of the 12 initiatives.
18:41So another one of the 12 was the ASEAN Common Carbon Market Initiative,
18:47of which you are chair, CY.
18:49Talk to me a little bit about not just this initiative,
18:52but the overarching vision of a regional energy efficient energy transition ASEAN market.
19:01I think if we talk about just working together, harmonising,
19:05it creates so much efficiency within ASEAN, just by harmonising standards.
19:10Earlier on, Tony was talking about regulation, right?
19:13If it's one regulation, single regulation, it saves a lot of cost, it saves a lot of time, right?
19:20And that's the whole reality, right?
19:23There's huge markets in the West, like Europe as a market, China, US.
19:27And the reality is an ASEAN company today cannot tap ASEAN as a whole,
19:33as an economic block because we just do not have one standard, right?
19:37And I think that the whole rationale behind having a common carbon market framework
19:43was to make sure that this is something that's new.
19:47Carbon taxes are coming up everywhere in the world today
19:50to make sure that we do not go towards that step
19:54which happens on the aviation regulations and different regulations,
19:58financial regulations, that we start off on a good footing
20:02that we are able to harmonise our common carbon framework, right?
20:07Where we have mutual recognition, we have a base,
20:10understanding that this is the base of the verification bodies,
20:17this is the base of what we're going to approve, right?
20:20for what a carbon credit is.
20:23And then with that, right, we work with a few ASEAN countries
20:28that are ready to embark on this journey
20:30and harmonise our carbon framework, right?
20:34I think that's the whole idea.
20:35I hear this a lot, the need to harmonise across the different countries,
20:41different markets.
20:41But the reality is not all countries, not all markets
20:47are on an equal playing field.
20:50Harmonising may not be as easy as a one word
20:55as it's encapsulated by the word.
20:58I think, you know, the EU came out of World War II
21:03and I think where there was a huge impetus to get things done,
21:08to rebuild the European economy.
21:10I don't think we're coming out of something like that,
21:14so maybe the urgency isn't as great.
21:16But I think in this geopolitical world,
21:19now is the time for ASEAN to really get its act together
21:22with trade wars and a more multipolar world, right?
21:29That's number one.
21:30Two things I just want to add,
21:33and also comment on CY's point.
21:35One is, one of the things I see being now
21:39kind of in the ASEAN framework
21:42is that every year leadership changes.
21:47It's a rotating chair.
21:48Yeah, I don't think we've ever brought this up,
21:51but I think sometimes it might be a little bit better
21:53to have a longer period of stability
21:55so ASEAN leaders can implement things.
22:01These things take longer, as you just mentioned.
22:03So it goes from one chair to another chair.
22:06Maybe priorities change, etc., etc.
22:08There are some legacies.
22:09That's point one.
22:10Two is, the European Union has a very strong central office.
22:14Okay.
22:14I mean, actually, the European president speaks a lot for Europe,
22:19and even in trade negotiations,
22:21Donald Trump may be trying to negotiate bilaterally with Germany, etc.,
22:25but he's saying, no, we can't.
22:26It's the European Union that has our voice.
22:30And so something we've been advocating
22:32is a bigger budget and a stronger budget
22:35for the ASEAN secretariat based in Jakarta.
22:38The third point is,
22:43it's tough getting all 10 countries to agree everything.
22:46Yes.
22:46Right?
22:47And so I think there's now a better approach
22:50of maybe two or three countries starting,
22:53and then others seeing the benefit,
22:54and others coming in at their own time
22:55when they see the benefits.
22:56So I think that's a big step forward.
22:58So not all 10 has to do everything at one go.
23:02What do you think?
23:03Definitely.
23:03But it's got an established practice in ASEAN
23:05that maybe the more mature economies can go first.
23:10And many things in the capital markets in the past,
23:14we've done that,
23:15like the trading link, etc., in the past.
23:18But let me just add that
23:20in terms of the prospects going forwards,
23:25I'd just like to say that
23:26I'm actually quite optimistic now about ASEAN
23:29because I think we can extend what Tony said
23:33that if you cannot turbocharge integration
23:37in this environment
23:39where the external environment,
23:40the geopolitics is quite hostile,
23:43then when can you?
23:44If you can't do it now, when can you?
23:45Right.
23:46Two is,
23:48we've seen the emergence of a new cadre
23:51of internationalist leaders across ASEAN.
23:53If you talk about leadership changes,
23:56if you notice,
23:57all the way from here in Malaysia,
23:59Indonesia,
24:00Philippines,
24:02Thailand,
24:03Cambodia,
24:03and Singapore,
24:05a lot of new leaders.
24:06And these are all internationalists, one.
24:09And two,
24:09if you look at the recent ASEAN summit,
24:11the comradery is very strong.
24:13Okay.
24:14They get along.
24:15They get along very well amongst them.
24:17That's important.
24:17And I know amongst many of them,
24:20they all have good bilateral relations
24:24in particular with our Prime Minister.
24:26It's very interesting to see that dynamic.
24:29And then the third point I'd like to make
24:32is that we've actually learned hard lessons
24:33from the past
24:35in terms of the failures
24:38or the over-promises of ASEAN.
24:40So I think now,
24:42we know that ASEAN works best
24:44when we take small concrete steps
24:47and move forwards
24:48rather than talk and dream too big.
24:51Yeah, I think that's the way we need to move.
24:53When we look at our 12 projects,
24:54it's a reflection of that.
24:56We've targeted small concrete steps
24:59that we can achieve, we think, this year.
25:01Okay.
25:02Can I ask you what you make
25:03of Tony's point that he raised?
25:07The fact that the rotating chair of one year
25:09is actually not enough time
25:11to get a lot of work done
25:13or there's always an interruption
25:15as the chair changes.
25:17I understand you are the chair for ASEAN Bak
25:20for a few years.
25:20Well, I'm not campaigning for an extension.
25:22So you are chair...
25:24But I think Tony's correct.
25:25Yes.
25:26But it's not just about ASEAN Bak.
25:28I think he's saying about all the...
25:30All ASEAN, yes.
25:31Basically, Malaysia's chairing all the platforms.
25:32Do you think it should be longer as chair?
25:34Yes, I do think because, you know,
25:35the way ASEAN works,
25:37the chair actually is a very important role.
25:41The chair dictates the agenda.
25:43It drives a lot of...
25:44The chair drives all the projects, etc.
25:48Okay.
25:48And then we're in a rush.
25:49We have to do things in one year
25:51and we hope to God that, you know,
25:54what we cannot finish,
25:55the next chair will follow through.
25:58But we cannot control that.
25:59So historically,
26:01a lot of ASEAN Bak projects have died
26:03because, you know,
26:04the runway is not long enough to be implemented.
26:07Ah, that's interesting.
26:08Just if we talk about...
26:10I want to bring up C.U.I.'s problem
26:12because it's very pertinent to me, right?
26:13We're an airline.
26:16Carbon credits is in the news all the time.
26:21And, you know,
26:23we are governed by Corsair,
26:24which is an aviation authority on carbon credits.
26:28There isn't a single ASEAN project
26:30that's approved by Corsair.
26:34And so if I was to collect carbon credits,
26:35my credits go outside of ASEAN,
26:38which is something I feel very strongly about
26:40and I'm arguing very strongly about.
26:42And so...
26:42But, you know,
26:43Thailand goes,
26:44Malaysia goes,
26:44and it's just going to be much tougher.
26:47So here's a real-life example.
26:49If we have one ASEAN on the car,
26:51we're in a much stronger position.
26:53We're in a much stronger position
26:55to also tell the world
26:57that these are bona fide carbon credit projects, right?
27:00So people don't want to go into any scams, etc.
27:03So I'm a live beneficiary
27:09of the success of this, right?
27:12And ultimately,
27:14the people of ASEAN benefit
27:15because those carbon credits
27:16are invested into ASEAN
27:17as opposed to, you know,
27:19somewhere in South America or New Zealand.
27:22Okay, so if we don't have to wait
27:24for all 10 countries to get on board
27:27to begin the process of harmonizing,
27:29if it's a practice done before
27:30that a few stronger countries
27:33band together and get this going,
27:35who should take the lead?
27:36Who should be starting?
27:37Give them your example.
27:39I wouldn't say stronger countries.
27:41I'd say those countries that are ready for it.
27:42Ready for it.
27:43Like, I think Thailand was very early
27:45in the carbon markets, right?
27:47Indonesia as well.
27:49I think what we've done was...
27:50Singapore as well?
27:50Singapore as well.
27:51So what we've done last year,
27:52you know,
27:53was to get the four countries
27:55that were ready, right?
27:55Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore
27:57to sign a mutual recognition, right?
28:00You've got your standards.
28:01We've got our standards.
28:02You know, we'll look through the standards.
28:03We're going to recognize
28:04each other's standards, right?
28:05And as an alliance, right,
28:07we'll communicate this.
28:09So we went to COP.
28:10We signed it in COP.
28:11And I think that's just
28:13one of the examples.
28:14And the other countries
28:15will hop on later on
28:16when they are ready.
28:18Okay.
28:18So you made a track record
28:20to prove some momentum
28:22so that other countries
28:23will join in?
28:24Yeah, and the size of the market
28:25will be better, right?
28:26And we can start buying internally
28:28our ASEAN credits
28:30rather than a global credit.
28:31And we have our standards
28:33that suits ASEAN, right?
28:34Just because the Western
28:36verification bodies
28:38does not consider
28:39our ASEAN credit
28:40will trade amongst ASEAN, right?
28:42that we recognize
28:43based on our standards, right?
28:45And perhaps this will be
28:46a global standard one day, right?
28:48You know, because we were not
28:50part of the bodies
28:51that set the standards, right?
28:52So now as an ASEAN voice,
28:54we want to be able to set
28:56this is suitable for ASEAN.
28:58This is what we at ASEAN
28:59believe is a real credit, right?
29:02And it suits the environment here.
29:04And I think that's how
29:06we should move forward.
29:07It has to be context-specific.
29:09Tony, what about
29:10the world of aviation?
29:11Where would you begin harmonizing?
29:14Oh, wow.
29:15You need four hours.
29:16You need five hours.
29:17Give me an example
29:18of which countries can lead.
29:21Look, let's just talk three
29:24to start with, right?
29:27And Aziz touched on one.
29:29Ownership.
29:30Yes.
29:30Right?
29:31It would be great
29:32if ASEAN people
29:34could own ASEAN airline.
29:35Okay, if you don't want
29:36Americans to come and own
29:37a Malaysian airline now,
29:39at least within the people
29:40of ASEAN,
29:41we should be able
29:42to own each other.
29:43So Lion Air should be able
29:44to own an airline here,
29:46100%.
29:47Vice versa, right?
29:50Number two is
29:51harmonization of standards,
29:53which I think
29:54is the biggest
29:56pro
29:57that we're all
29:58advocating.
30:00can that also be
30:01some country-led?
30:03Yes, absolutely.
30:04Okay, so it doesn't have
30:04to be everyone.
30:05And we're, you know,
30:06I talked to two governments
30:08about let's try
30:10amongst three of us first,
30:12right?
30:13That's a huge exercise.
30:15It's not something
30:16you can be done overnight.
30:17Harmonizing safety
30:18and standards
30:19is a huge exercise,
30:20but you take
30:21the smaller chunks first.
30:23And then
30:23three would be
30:25an easy one
30:27to start to me.
30:28I mean,
30:28not easy,
30:29but easier
30:29would be one sky.
30:31One ASEAN sky
30:33that is controlled
30:34by an ASEAN control.
30:36You know,
30:36we talk about
30:37carbon credits.
30:38If we had one sky,
30:38we would save
30:39a lot more fuel.
30:40And the emissions
30:43would come down
30:44quite dramatically.
30:45We've all stayed
30:46in the sky
30:47circling around.
30:48The inefficiency
30:49of airspace planning
30:50is terrible, right?
30:52So those are three areas.
30:56But as Naze said,
30:57you know,
30:58what we've,
31:00we're always in a rush.
31:02But I can say,
31:03look,
31:03I've been an ASEANist
31:04for 23 years.
31:06Eurasia started,
31:07CIMB copied us.
31:08And started buying
31:10banks in ASEAN
31:11and et cetera,
31:13et cetera.
31:14But I can say
31:16that I haven't heard
31:18ASEAN in the news
31:19so much, right?
31:21But we still have
31:22work to do.
31:23Pete Hesgert
31:24gets criticized
31:25for not knowing ASEAN.
31:26But I blame ourselves.
31:28You know,
31:28the fact that he doesn't
31:29know ASEAN
31:29is because we haven't
31:31done a good enough job
31:32promoting ASEAN
31:32or America
31:34hasn't realized
31:35that ASEAN
31:35is important
31:36as a block,
31:37right?
31:38They're still seen
31:38as 10 countries.
31:40And so,
31:41yes,
31:41we're moving
31:42in the right direction.
31:43I'm definitely optimistic
31:44because I've gone
31:45through these
31:4623 years.
31:46But I just think
31:48we can move faster
31:49and as we've both said,
31:51all three of us have said,
31:52there isn't a better time.
31:54So speaking about
31:55making sure
31:56that people know
31:57the name ASEAN,
31:58knowing the brand
32:00of ASEAN,
32:01you are spearheading
32:03the initiative
32:03to rebrand
32:04the Sea Games
32:05into the ASEAN Games.
32:07Why do you think
32:08this is more than
32:09just a cosmetic change?
32:12Okay.
32:12So,
32:13the momentum
32:14on ASEAN
32:15is growing.
32:17If you go back
32:18to Aeroasia,
32:18the biggest supporters
32:19of Aeroasia
32:20were the people,
32:21right?
32:21The people,
32:22we made a difference
32:24to them,
32:25they pushed
32:26for bigger
32:27deregulation
32:28and stuff.
32:28so if the people
32:30of ASEAN
32:30begin to,
32:31one,
32:31know what ASEAN
32:32is about
32:33and that it makes
32:34a difference
32:35to their lives,
32:36it begins
32:37to bring
32:38people together.
32:40Now,
32:40there's the economic side,
32:42but culture
32:43and sports
32:43brings together.
32:44That ASEAN
32:45team
32:47is a very big
32:48step forward.
32:49You may not think so.
32:50And the Prime Minister
32:50came with two shirts,
32:51right?
32:53To swap out.
32:54Yeah,
32:55obviously,
32:56when ASEAN won,
32:57he wore the ASEAN shirt.
32:58Which is very smart.
33:01But,
33:01to the people
33:03of ASEAN,
33:04how much does
33:05ASEAN really mean?
33:06Right.
33:06And so,
33:07we've got to drive
33:08that message through,
33:09that cultural message.
33:10And we are seeing
33:11more and more
33:12ASEAN events,
33:14right?
33:14The ASEAN football,
33:15et cetera.
33:15If I just may interrupt you,
33:16you keep saying
33:17the people of ASEAN,
33:18but,
33:19I mean,
33:19let's be honest,
33:20do a lot of people
33:21identify as ASEAN?
33:22Do they describe
33:23themselves as ASEAN?
33:23So you've hit the nail
33:24on the button.
33:25That's why we need,
33:27that's why I was thrilled.
33:28You know,
33:29we've still got a long way
33:30to go,
33:30because most people
33:31in the stadium
33:31are supporting
33:32Manchester United.
33:32But we're moving
33:34in that direction.
33:35And that's why
33:36we need ASEAN games.
33:40We need people.
33:42And we need to excel
33:43in our own sphere,
33:45as well.
33:45And we need to compete
33:46with each other,
33:47but we also need
33:47to come together.
33:49And, you know,
33:50like at the Olympics,
33:50the Olympics is such a success
33:52in bringing nations together.
33:53And so sport
33:55is a great way
33:56of bringing people together.
33:58Now,
33:58the second point,
33:59and we have a lot of,
34:01and these are the battles
34:01we go through, right?
34:03People will say,
34:04well,
34:04ASEAN is a political organization.
34:07And so we want to,
34:08we rename ourselves
34:10as the Sea Games.
34:11But we're trying
34:13to promote ASEAN.
34:14We're trying to promote
34:14one area.
34:15We're trying to get
34:16more money into the sport.
34:17We're trying to get
34:18more investment in.
34:19So we have to brand ourselves,
34:21right?
34:21We have to brand ourselves.
34:23And sports,
34:24as we all know,
34:25is the greatest branding
34:26outside of music.
34:28And I would love to see,
34:29you know,
34:29the Eurovision Song Contest.
34:31Oh, wow.
34:31An ASEAN vision.
34:33Still has a huge impact,
34:35right?
34:36Huge impact.
34:37And we're all listening.
34:39We're all watching Thai dramas.
34:41We're watching Indonesian dramas.
34:43We're watching Philippine
34:44tele-novels.
34:46And so getting ASEAN culture together,
34:48and we succeeded in tourism,
34:50more people are flying
34:52throughout ASEAN
34:54than they ever did.
34:55More Malaysians are going
34:56to Vietnam
34:57than they ever did.
34:58More Filipinos
34:59are going to Indonesia
35:00than they've ever done before.
35:02And that's integrating.
35:03So, you know,
35:05without sounding like Miss World,
35:07the more integration we have,
35:10the better
35:11for the business community,
35:12the easier for politicians.
35:14the less defensive mechanisms
35:17that exist.
35:18And so, you know,
35:20I really hope,
35:21I mean,
35:21I dreamt of an ASEAN World Cup,
35:23right?
35:24I mean,
35:25if you look at the next World Cup,
35:26it's in three countries.
35:27Mexico,
35:28Canada,
35:29and
35:30the United States.
35:33It would be interesting
35:34with the borders
35:34between the trains,
35:36by the way.
35:37That was probably decided
35:38before Donald Trump came in.
35:40But, you know,
35:41why not?
35:42That could happen.
35:43I dream of an ASEAN Football League,
35:46right?
35:48This soft side of integration
35:50has a huge impact
35:52on the hard side.
35:54Do you see sports
35:55as being this driver
35:57of an ASEAN identity?
35:58Are there other ways
35:59we can cultivate
36:00this communal identity
36:02of this region?
36:03Yes.
36:04But it needs work.
36:06And at ASEAN Bank this year,
36:08we decided that although
36:09identity is not really
36:11in the business economic stream,
36:13but we jumped into it.
36:14We have this idea
36:16of rebranding the Sea Games.
36:18We also are developing
36:19an ASEAN super app
36:21for travel.
36:22and that's another
36:24way of promoting
36:26the region.
36:27And, you know,
36:28even the ABE
36:29is kind of
36:31giving meaning
36:32to being ASEAN
36:33as a company, right?
36:35So, identity
36:36is very important.
36:37It's not natural.
36:38You talk about Europeans.
36:39What do we call ourselves?
36:40You cannot call ourselves
36:41ASEANite,
36:41we sound like.
36:42But Melissa,
36:46can I just add
36:47a couple of things?
36:48On the,
36:48in terms of
36:50getting things done,
36:52the ASEAN IPO
36:52is very interesting,
36:54actually,
36:54because tomorrow,
36:56Malaysia and Singapore
36:56can get this done.
36:58Yeah, the both countries
36:59agree it's done.
36:59It can be done tomorrow.
37:00It can be done tomorrow.
37:01And so,
37:02we have to ask the question,
37:03why is it not done?
37:05Yeah.
37:05Yeah, and we've been
37:06pushing very hard
37:07to get straight answers
37:08here because
37:09Malaysia and Singapore
37:09can just get it done.
37:10Because in terms of
37:11prospectus disclosure
37:12is almost the same already.
37:14But we're pushing.
37:16And then,
37:16I'd just like to add...
37:17Why do you think
37:18it's not done?
37:19Well, I think
37:20they just have,
37:22the two capital market
37:23regulators
37:24just need to agree.
37:25Okay.
37:26And,
37:27you know,
37:27obviously,
37:28they need to clear
37:28their bases and all that.
37:29But I'm really very hopeful
37:31because I can't,
37:32I think they're going
37:32to run out of excuses
37:33for not doing this.
37:36Let me just add this,
37:37that, you know,
37:38one thing that
37:39we've discovered this year
37:40is there's a lot
37:42private sector can do
37:44on its own.
37:45Yeah.
37:46And to CY's credit,
37:47he discovered that
37:49this whole carbon credit
37:50platforms,
37:52Indonesia,
37:53Singapore,
37:54and Thailand
37:55had set up
37:56their associations,
37:58but Malaysia hadn't.
37:59Hadn't.
37:59Okay.
37:59So we at Hazen Bak
38:01set up
38:02the Malaysian
38:02Cover Market Association.
38:05Then we looked at this
38:06and said,
38:06okay,
38:06there's plenty of others
38:07that we don't have
38:10and we should have.
38:11So we set up,
38:13we decided to
38:14look at the whole
38:15area of digital trade
38:17and discovered
38:19that Malaysia
38:19doesn't have
38:20a proper digital trade
38:21exchange
38:22for domestic B2B.
38:23You were discovering
38:23gaps.
38:24Gaps.
38:24And so we went ahead
38:25and did it.
38:26So we set up
38:27working with MyEG
38:28in the next
38:29digital trade exchange
38:30for Malaysia.
38:31Then we looked at
38:32this whole space
38:33of AI
38:34and we looked
38:35at around the region.
38:37Indonesia and Singapore
38:38have private sector
38:39bodies for AI,
38:41but Malaysia doesn't.
38:42No other country
38:42has either.
38:43So I've done
38:44two things,
38:45which is we just
38:46set up the AI Malaysia,
38:47which we just
38:48launched this morning.
38:49YB Gobin
38:49launched it this morning.
38:50And we've asked
38:51all the other
38:53Hazen Baks
38:53to set up
38:54or find
38:56a counterparty
38:56for this
38:57so that eventually
38:57we can set
38:58the AI ASEAN network
39:00because AI
39:02is the defining
39:03technology
39:04of our time
39:05and we need
39:06the ASEAN economies
39:07of scale,
39:08maybe not necessarily
39:09for products
39:09or innovations,
39:11but also in terms
39:12of knowledge sharing,
39:13expertise sharing
39:15and so on.
39:26How do you balance?
39:47You said earlier
39:48that you've learnt
39:48the lessons
39:49from the past
39:49of not over-promising,
39:51not dreaming too big,
39:52but yet you're here,
39:54you've discovered
39:55gaps within the region
39:56of what Malaysia
39:57needs to do.
39:58How do you make sure
40:00that you're not
40:01dreaming too big
40:03but yet at the same time
40:04dreaming big enough
40:05to make sure
40:06that we're not
40:06left behind,
40:07that we are
40:07future ready?
40:09No, because
40:10we presented
40:11to the ASEAN Economic
40:12Ministers
40:12and my conclusion was
40:13this year
40:14is going to be
40:15all about
40:16execution,
40:16execution,
40:17execution.
40:17So whatever we say,
40:18we will execute.
40:19So there are
40:21many things,
40:21if you gave me
40:22two, three years
40:23to do this
40:23and I don't want it,
40:25two, three years
40:25to do this,
40:26my list of projects
40:28could be very different.
40:29But I have one year
40:30so we have listed
40:31these projects
40:32and we are executing.
40:34We don't list things
40:36that we cannot execute.
40:37Siwa, can I ask you
40:38what your expectations
40:39are of the year?
40:41Earlier we talked
40:42about how the chair
40:43really drives the momentum,
40:45that sets the tone.
40:46What are your expectations
40:48for Malaysia's
40:49chairmanship this year?
40:50Just based on
40:51the ASEAN Summit
40:52that we've just
40:53wrapped up earlier
40:53this week.
40:54But what concrete results
40:58are you expecting
41:00to see by the end
41:01of the year?
41:02I think we've got
41:02our 12 PDs
41:03and I think we need
41:05to sign real
41:06private sector
41:07with government blessings
41:09deals.
41:11I think that's what
41:12we really need to do.
41:13Put things into
41:14to see that there is
41:16ASEAN companies
41:17working with ASEAN
41:18companies
41:18and I think that
41:19in ASEAN
41:20is what we've been
41:21driving for companies
41:23to work together.
41:25Sometimes we talk
41:26about regulations.
41:28There's different
41:28regulations in ASEAN
41:30and sometimes
41:32you think about it
41:33and it's quite silly
41:34where actually
41:34all these regulations
41:35make sense.
41:36It's good.
41:36It's well thought about
41:38but they're actually
41:3980-90% the same.
41:41Why you cannot
41:42integrate is the
41:4310-20% that stops
41:45it from integrating
41:46and the reality
41:48is if everybody
41:48started off
41:49from the same footing
41:50and didn't start
41:51their own standards,
41:52standards would be
41:53one standard.
41:54But because over
41:55the years people
41:56develop their own
41:57standards and then
41:58they get too
41:59nationalistic about
42:00their standard,
42:01then it makes it
42:01very hard to integrate.
42:03I think a lot of us
42:05need to take one
42:06step behind and
42:07really say,
42:08let's integrate
42:10the 80-90%
42:11and the 15%
42:12will be...
42:12We'll figure it out.
42:13We'll figure out
42:14the 15%
42:14but we need to get
42:15the bulk of it done,
42:17Tony.
42:17I think one of the
42:18most optimistic things
42:19is going back to
42:20your question
42:22to see why.
42:24What I'm most
42:24optimistic about
42:25is there's enthusiasm
42:27within the private sector.
42:29Okay.
42:30And so sometimes
42:30even within my own
42:32business,
42:33you kind of
42:34just do it first
42:35and then
42:36you see it
42:37with the Malaysian
42:38carbon credit,
42:39you see it
42:39with the AI.
42:41So companies
42:42are now seeing
42:43the benefit of ASEAN.
42:45So there was a time
42:46when a lot of
42:47ASEAN companies
42:47were focused on
42:48China,
42:49India
42:49and outside
42:50actually of ASEAN.
42:53But what I thought
42:55has come out
42:56of this leadership
42:56and I think
42:57what Malaysia
42:58and ASEAN Bar
42:59can be proud of
43:00is that we have
43:02stimulated
43:02and connected people
43:04into looking
43:06and doing things
43:07that benefit
43:08their companies
43:09and obviously ASEAN.
43:10That I think
43:11is the crowning glory
43:12and I hope
43:13the next six months
43:13is an even further
43:15driver of that.
43:18Okay.
43:18That while
43:19maybe past years
43:22people have looked
43:23at government-driven
43:24initiatives,
43:27this year
43:27private,
43:29and I think Indonesia
43:30played a part
43:30in that as well
43:31last year.
43:32Private industry
43:33is driving the change
43:35and of course
43:35when it's a good change
43:36government support it.
43:38So rather than
43:39it being top down
43:40I think it's coming
43:41from the bottom
43:42and I think
43:42that's a momentum
43:43that will gather speed
43:46and you'll see
43:47more and more
43:49of the Malaysian
43:49Carbon Association
43:50and AI
43:51and all these things
43:52coming together
43:53and I'm kind of saying
43:55that this is
43:56the turning point
43:57where private industry
43:59drives ASEAN.
44:01There is an ASEAN BAK
44:02in each of the
44:03member nations.
44:04So you have
44:05counterparts in
44:06all the countries.
44:07Are you leveraging
44:08them to help
44:09push their governments
44:11to maybe see
44:12harmonisation?
44:13Yeah, for sure.
44:14And we have
44:16an ASEAN BAK council.
44:18There's 30 of us
44:18in there.
44:19Three appointees
44:20by each government.
44:21So we engage
44:24we actually get
44:27each other
44:27to identify
44:29potential deals.
44:30Yesterday
44:31I was at the
44:34launch of
44:34a warehouse
44:35in a supply
44:37they call it
44:38supply chain city
44:39in Bukit Raja.
44:41Tegu Zafro
44:42launched it
44:43and that's
44:44an ASEAN BAK
44:45project.
44:45It's a
44:46500 million ringgit
44:47project
44:47supported
44:49and encouraged
44:51by ASEAN BAK.
44:52We also have
44:53a project
44:54where a Malaysian
44:54company now
44:55is going to
44:57grow durians
44:58in the Philippines.
44:59Musang King
45:00in the Philippines.
45:01So these are
45:01examples of things
45:02that actually
45:02we're doing
45:03because of ASEAN BAK.
45:05Yes, Tony.
45:06You asked about
45:08the sports side.
45:09I think we can do
45:10a lot on the soft side
45:11as well.
45:11If you think about
45:12what's happening
45:13in American universities
45:14and stuff.
45:14Imagine a situation
45:15where more Malaysians
45:16are going to
45:17Indonesian university
45:18and Thais
45:18are coming to
45:19Malaysian university.
45:20I think that
45:21actually was
45:22the strength
45:22of America
45:23before, right?
45:24The fact that
45:24immigration
45:25and great ideas
45:27came together.
45:28Look at the top
45:28CEOs in America.
45:29Look at the great
45:30IP that's come out.
45:31It's not come out
45:32from just
45:34Americans themselves.
45:35So I think
45:36and I see it more.
45:39Universities now
45:40beginning to talk
45:40to each other
45:41and do more
45:42things together.
45:42So there's a lot
45:44also while we're
45:44talking about
45:45the economics.
45:46Sport,
45:47music,
45:47education
45:48which can
45:49integrate ASEAN
45:50and develop
45:51relationships.
45:52Well, you've built
45:53one of the most
45:54recognizable brands
45:55in ASEAN.
45:56After CIMB.
45:57After CIMB.
45:59He said that.
46:00You still work for CIMB?
46:03Okay.
46:03Well, what lessons
46:04can you bring
46:05from building
46:06that commercial brand
46:07into branding
46:08ASEAN
46:09not just through
46:11sports
46:12but through all
46:12the soft power
46:13that you talked
46:14about
46:14so that the rest
46:15of the world
46:16would want to
46:17come and talk
46:18to us?
46:18So if you think
46:19about it,
46:19we have five
46:22different airlines
46:22but no one
46:23calls it
46:24Thai Air Asia
46:25or Indonesia
46:26Air Asia.
46:27Could it be
46:27an Air ASEAN?
46:28Well, no.
46:29We spend too much
46:30money on Air Asia.
46:32Come on, Tony.
46:34We'll talk about ASEAN.
46:35You'll call Asia.
46:36Okay, you pay for it then.
46:37But we say ASEAN's
46:39favorite airline.
46:40But the reality is
46:41we have created
46:42an ASEAN brand
46:43that has gone
46:44beyond nationalities.
46:46No one looks
46:47at whether it's
46:47a Thai crew,
46:48Malaysian pilot,
46:50et cetera, right?
46:52And so
46:53there are ASEAN brands.
46:55And CIMB
46:56grab our ASEAN brands,
46:57right?
46:58Yeah.
46:58And so
46:59and they've benefited
47:00the people of ASEAN.
47:01There's no two ways
47:02about it
47:03and they've got to be
47:03more food companies
47:05and energy companies,
47:06et cetera.
47:07And then ASEAN Grid
47:08is fantastic,
47:10right?
47:10Because some countries
47:12have excess of power,
47:13some countries need power,
47:14right?
47:15And I mean,
47:16you look at the AI revolution,
47:18Malaysia, amongst others,
47:19has benefited
47:20because of our power,
47:22right?
47:22And I don't think
47:23we're losing sovereignty
47:24by having all these
47:25data centers
47:26in Malaysia
47:27or Indonesia.
47:29Quite the opposite.
47:29We didn't have Google
47:30or Facebook here,
47:32but we benefited
47:32from those applications.
47:34Many e-commerce companies
47:36were created
47:36from that many
47:37logistics companies.
47:38So we don't have
47:39to be open AI,
47:42right?
47:42But we can use open AI
47:44to develop our economies.
47:47We can use Claude,
47:49we can use all the
47:50AI centers,
47:52but they use us
47:54for power.
47:55So it's mutually
47:56symbiotic, right?
47:58So everyone's concerned
47:59about, you know,
48:00we're losing our sovereignty
48:01on AI and stuff.
48:03I don't think
48:04we're ever going to compete
48:05with some of these
48:06big guys.
48:06And you've got China
48:07as well, right?
48:08Investing millions.
48:10But let's use
48:10those applications
48:11to make our businesses
48:13better
48:13and to grow
48:14our economies as well.
48:16I just touched
48:17on the point Tony made
48:19about education.
48:20So one work stream
48:21that we have
48:22is about talent mobility.
48:24Yes.
48:25And the,
48:25I mean,
48:27this is a parental issue
48:28and it's very difficult
48:28with the various
48:29immigration offices
48:31and all that.
48:31But I think
48:32there's a real opportunity
48:33given what's happening
48:34in the US
48:35to take advantage
48:36of one recommendation
48:37that we put
48:37which is all ASEAN countries
48:39should introduce
48:40this student visa,
48:42student work permit.
48:44So if say
48:44Indonesian studies in Malaysia,
48:47you have an automatic
48:47two-year work permit.
48:49Singapore has it.
48:50The UK has it.
48:51Malaysia should introduce
48:52it tomorrow.
48:54And this is,
48:55this coupled
48:57with the other recommendation
48:58which is automatic visa
49:00for interns.
49:01So if you,
49:02for the young
49:03in each company,
49:04they should be allowed
49:05say a six-month visa
49:06to work in another country.
49:08I could just hear
49:08the pushback
49:09from people who say
49:10they're coming
49:11for our jobs.
49:12Can I, can I,
49:12can I, can I,
49:12can I, can I,
49:12can I interrupt?
49:14Just, just on that.
49:15Visas,
49:16to remove visas
49:17has been the biggest
49:18challenge in my life.
49:20And we,
49:21and we know
49:22everything about everyone
49:23before they land.
49:24Right.
49:24In this world of data.
49:26Sure.
49:26We remove visas
49:28for China
49:28and India.
49:31Tourism went up
49:3267%
49:32and 40%
49:34with no downsides.
49:36There is this fear.
49:37Now think about it.
49:38If more Indonesians
49:40came here
49:40who understood this,
49:41built relationships,
49:43that moves on.
49:44Some of your best
49:44relationships
49:45are from school,
49:46from business school,
49:47from university.
49:48And we're only talking
49:49about the first,
49:49first two years,
49:50for two years,
49:51it's not for,
49:52it's not forever.
49:54It's only for first two years.
49:56And for interns,
49:57it's, you know,
49:58just short term visas.
49:59But you imagine
50:00a lot of young people
50:01with experiences
50:02working in other ASEAN countries
50:04that can't only be good
50:04for ASEAN in the long term.
50:06For sure.
50:06Well, you've submitted
50:07the 12 objectives
50:09or 12 initiatives
50:10on Monday,
50:11if I'm not mistaken,
50:13to the leaders of ASEAN.
50:14Can I ask you
50:15what happens now?
50:15So where do we go from here?
50:18What happens
50:18to these recommendations?
50:20Are you following through,
50:21following up with them?
50:21Different recommendations
50:22require different responses.
50:24Okay.
50:25So we have recommendations
50:26on, say,
50:27the private markets
50:28where we think,
50:29you know,
50:30every country should re-look
50:32at rules and regulations
50:33on developing
50:34their private market industry,
50:35venture capital
50:35and private equity.
50:36So that's just
50:37for each country to do.
50:38Similarly,
50:39we have a framework
50:40on philanthropy.
50:41We think a lot of work,
50:42a lot of rules
50:43and regulations
50:43should change
50:44so that more philanthropy,
50:45corporate philanthropy,
50:47can cascade down
50:47to the B40s
50:49as well as
50:49easing rules
50:51for cross-border philanthropy.
50:52So for Malaysians
50:53to, say,
50:54donate to Myanmar
50:55or Laos,
50:56there's still
50:56a lot of restrictions.
50:57So those are just,
50:59we've put out,
51:00we've highlighted the issues
51:01and it's up to governments
51:02who then follow through.
51:03Okay.
51:03Yeah,
51:04whereas some require,
51:06you know,
51:07more complex,
51:08multi-country ones
51:10like the IPO.
51:11Yeah,
51:12so those require
51:12securities,
51:14regulators
51:14in different countries
51:15to kind of
51:16work together
51:17on them.
51:18Okay.
51:19Well,
51:19in the time
51:20that we have left,
51:21I do want to ask
51:21you,
51:22all of you gentlemen,
51:24where you,
51:25what you would
51:26like to see.
51:27So part of our
51:27conversation today
51:29has been
51:30what can we
51:31get done realistically?
51:33And what you've
51:33laid out to me
51:34is that
51:34it's actually
51:35not that hard.
51:35We can achieve
51:36some wins here
51:37if there's a little bit
51:39of kind of will
51:39put behind it.
51:41There can be
51:42big progress
51:43made with
51:43little effort,
51:45as you've pointed out.
51:46if we were to
51:47come back
51:47and revisit this,
51:49say five years
51:50down the line,
51:50say it's 2030,
51:52and we've come
51:53back to see,
51:54hey,
51:54have the initiatives
51:55worked?
51:56Have we made
51:57progress?
51:57Has ASEAN finally
51:58delivered on
52:00some of this,
52:00the promises?
52:02What would you
52:03like to see?
52:04And what are you,
52:06realistically,
52:07where do you think
52:07we will be
52:08in five years?
52:09I think mindset
52:10needs the biggest
52:11shift, right?
52:12Mindset.
52:13All the ASEAN
52:15countries need
52:16to start thinking
52:17that it all
52:20doesn't just
52:21sum up to one.
52:21Anything I lose
52:23means it's
52:24my neighbor's gain.
52:25We need to
52:26start thinking
52:27as ASEAN
52:28that one plus
52:28one equals
52:29to three,
52:30that kind of
52:30mindset.
52:31And that's
52:32really true.
52:32We talked about
52:33taking jobs and
52:34all.
52:34It doesn't,
52:35right?
52:35A big part
52:36of our supply
52:37chain today
52:37is China.
52:39And we build
52:40a lot in China.
52:41We have zero
52:41revenues coming
52:42from there.
52:43And the reality
52:44of why we go
52:45to China all
52:45the time,
52:46it's a single
52:47area with
52:48enough highly
52:49technical workforce
52:51that can scale.
52:53We can put
52:541,000,
52:552,000,
52:553,000 people
52:56on our assets
52:58and we can
52:59scale that
52:59with a short
53:00period of time.
53:01And not many
53:02nations can do
53:03that.
53:04In ASEAN,
53:04for sure,
53:05there's not many
53:06yards that can
53:07do that.
53:08So we need
53:09to start
53:09understanding
53:10that within
53:10ASEAN,
53:11there is
53:11population-based,
53:12there is good
53:13universities and
53:14all.
53:15And if we can
53:15integrate that
53:16together,
53:17we would have
53:17a single
53:19location,
53:19if it's a
53:20single market,
53:20of good talent
53:22pool to work
53:22on our projects.
53:23And then
53:25there's real
53:26competition to
53:27that labour
53:28base in China.
53:29People don't go
53:30to China today
53:31because it's
53:31cheap.
53:32People go there
53:33because of
53:34reliable,
53:35highly technical
53:35labour
53:36in a single
53:38location where
53:40you can just
53:41scale up
53:41your supply
53:43chain.
53:44And I think
53:45ASEAN has
53:46really an
53:47opportunity to
53:47do that.
53:48And if you
53:49talk about
53:49five years
53:50today,
53:50we would love
53:51to see more
53:52projects here
53:52in ASEAN.
53:54And with
53:55integration,
53:56perhaps there's
53:57a lot of
53:58people in
53:58Indonesia
53:59getting trained
53:59in Singapore,
54:01working in
54:01Malaysia,
54:02perhaps because
54:03there's good,
54:05reliable power
54:06here.
54:07All this
54:07integration is
54:08where we
54:09should.
54:09And I think
54:10that will
54:10really attract
54:11mega industries
54:12to come to
54:13this part of
54:13the world.
54:14Tony?
54:15If you're
54:16asking what
54:17I'd love to
54:17see in a few
54:18years' time,
54:18harmonisation.
54:20Harmonisation
54:20of regulations,
54:24of reason,
54:25and of the
54:26soft side,
54:27so that people
54:28begin to see
54:29the benefits
54:29of being in
54:30ASEAN.
54:30To CY's
54:32point,
54:33our engineering
54:34company,
54:35if you go in
54:35there,
54:36it is ASEAN.
54:37You will see
54:38because we don't
54:38have enough
54:39Malaysian engineers,
54:40so we have
54:41Indonesians and
54:42Filipinos,
54:43some Miamis,
54:44et cetera.
54:45So we're
54:45building an
54:46ASEAN MRO
54:47with ASEAN
54:48people.
54:49And everyone
54:49thinks as one.
54:50We all call
54:51ourselves all-stars
54:52there.
54:52So I would
54:54love to see
54:54more integration,
54:56right?
54:56Not just,
54:57we've talked a
54:58lot about the
54:58economic side,
54:59but on the
55:00soft side,
55:01sports,
55:02education,
55:03mobility.
55:04The more,
55:05if you think
55:06about the
55:06number of
55:07people,
55:07when I go
55:07traveling in
55:08Europe,
55:09whether it's
55:09investors,
55:11whether it's
55:11analysts,
55:12who said,
55:12I backpacked
55:13through Thailand
55:14and Malaysia
55:15and have fond
55:16memories and
55:16so understand
55:17our market
55:18better.
55:20What Naze
55:20pointed out,
55:21allowing mobility,
55:23allowing young
55:24people to
55:25understand each
55:26other better,
55:27will lead to
55:29greater business
55:29and greater
55:30integration.
55:31That's why we
55:31talk about
55:32ASEAN Games
55:32and Eurovision,
55:34the ASEAN
55:34vision,
55:35et cetera,
55:35et cetera.
55:36So integrating
55:37us more and
55:38more harmonization.
55:40Yeah.
55:40Dan Sri.
55:41Yeah, along
55:42the same lines,
55:42and I think,
55:43you know,
55:43if you talk
55:44about 2030,
55:44I reflect back
55:45on 2025
55:46and our
55:47recommendations
55:48and hopefully
55:49by the year
55:50end, a lot
55:51of the stuff
55:51that we
55:51recommended
55:52will gain
55:52momentum.
55:53and by
55:542030,
55:55I think
55:55we will
55:56have contributed
55:57to material
55:58uplift in
55:59intra-ASEAN trade,
56:00intra-ASEAN investments
56:01and the
56:02proliferation of
56:03ASEAN multinationals.
56:04You know,
56:04in the year,
56:06in the early
56:08part of this
56:09century,
56:10we started
56:11seeing more
56:11ASEAN multinationals
56:13but that momentum
56:14has kind of
56:14stopped
56:15and we want
56:16to get back
56:17there.
56:17We want
56:18to infuse
56:18this idea
56:19that we
56:21want to build
56:22companies across
56:23ASEAN
56:23and we
56:25infuse the
56:25idea because
56:26we actually
56:27realistically
56:28make it easier
56:29and economically
56:31sensible for
56:32people to
56:32build ASEAN
56:33companies.
56:34Thank you,
56:35gentlemen,
56:35for being on
56:36the show
56:36today,
56:36sharing some
56:37of your
56:37vision,
56:38the picture
56:39that you've
56:39painted today
56:40is the ASEAN
56:40I want to
56:41live in
56:41going forward.
56:43So thank you
56:43so much for
56:44being on the
56:44show.
56:45I appreciate
56:45your time.
56:47That's all
56:47we have for you
56:48on this episode
56:48of Consider This.
56:49I'm Melissa
56:49Idris signing
56:50off for the
56:50evening.
56:51Thank you so
56:51much for
56:52watching.
56:52Good night.
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