- 8 minutes ago
'Butcher's Stain' writer and director Meyer Levinson-Blount and producer Oron Caspi chat with THR's David Canfield to talk all about their short film during a THR Frontrunners conversation.
Category
✨
PeopleTranscript
00:00This film is sort of trying to distance itself from being a political statement or argument
00:05or being provocative. It's a film that's supposed to take the conversation back to the human
00:11experience. How does it feel as a human being to be accused of something that you didn't do?
00:16How does it feel to be out of nowhere because of a national crisis that you had nothing to do
00:21with?
00:22How does it feel to suddenly be looked at different and to be treated different
00:26and to be discriminated against? I think the human conversation is the conversation that we need
00:33to be having while the world is broken at this point. We need to bring it back to that emotional
00:38level. Thank you so much for being here. This is both of your first films, professional films,
00:49I believe. Yeah, this is our first kind of professional film. We did a few for class
00:56but this is our first, you know, the real thing. And so this is coming pretty much straight out of
01:03film school for you. Can you talk a little bit about sort of your background and where this idea
01:09came from? So I'm originally from New York. We got some New Yorkers here. Yeah, I grew up in
01:19Yonkers. And I moved to Israel when I was 12. Went to Yeshiva High School, only boys. So I have
01:29like a
01:29pretty strange background. But after a few years after I finished high school, I was kind of doing
01:37a few different things. I was working at the supermarket, as in this film. And I was teaching
01:44English. And I just felt like I wanted to do what I really wanted to do. And I got the
01:51courage and I
01:51signed up for film school. And it's been the best decision ever since.
01:56You mentioned, obviously, you two have collaborated before. What was the initial point of connection?
02:01And then when it came to this idea, what were those initial conversations between the two of you?
02:05You're going to take that over?
02:07The talent is clear. So we got in, I think, first year. And Meyer read some scripts in class. And
02:20I immediately noticed the talent. And so we started working. And there was an immediate connection.
02:29I come with a background of almost 30 years in the media industry in Israel. So anything from video
02:36editing, cinematography, producing, everything. So it clicked, it worked. And we did a couple of
02:43projects together before Butcher's Tain. And it set us up. It was understood that we could work
02:54together. Then Meyer presented the script for Butcher's Tain. And it was a page turner. I couldn't
03:00stop reading that, which is not something that happens a lot at film school. So it was great. And
03:07the rest is history.
03:09So you mentioned working in a supermarket. And I know that just generally, this was very much rooted in
03:16personal experience, personal observation. I think for a filmmaker your age, it is an extremely mature
03:26and nuanced take on a really fraught moment, right? So what about your experience led you to
03:35this particular kind of telling of the story?
03:39So I worked at the supermarket. I worked at the supermarket on and off. I've been there a few
03:45times working. It's just such an interesting place because it is sort of the place where everyone
03:52goes when they don't have a job in Israel. And so it brings people from all types of ethnicities
03:58and all types of backgrounds. So I went to work there after the 7th of October. And the 7th of
04:05October was sort of like a coronavirus because everyone was at home and no one was leaving their
04:10house. And it was a very kind of suffocating time for a lot of people. And I decided to go
04:17work at
04:17the supermarket. And what I sort of saw was the supermarket was a microcosm of the Israeli society
04:25and the conflicts within Israeli society were very present within the supermarket. So what I witnessed
04:32was there is a lot of tension between the Arab-Palestinian Israelis and the Jewish Israelis.
04:37And I saw two things happening at the same time. I saw a lot of people who were victims of
04:43what had happened and knew people who were murdered. Someone from our year at school was murdered. I mean,
04:51everyone knew someone. And it was just so tragic. And at the same time, I saw that that collective
04:58trauma and that national crisis that was happening sort of had an effect also on the Palestinian and
05:05Arab-Israeli community because there was a finger pointed at them. People were looking at them
05:09different. People were treating them different. People were being fired for things that they said.
05:16And it was important for me to talk about both of those things at the same time, because I feel
05:19like
05:20sometimes people feel like those things contradict each other. And they're, you know, if you're on this
05:26side of the political spectrum or here and you have to kind of pick a side, but I really wanted
05:31to talk
05:31about the whole thing and, you know, capture the whole complexity of how things were as I witnessed
05:38them.
05:40We were talking before about the nature of the world we live in now, right? And binaries are
05:47a lot easier. They dominate social media algorithms. Did it feel to you like a risk to kind of take
05:57that
05:57kind of approach? Should it feel important to maybe go against what we just see more and more
06:02and more often now?
06:04It is always a risk because you tend to have people from all types of, you know, opinions saying, you
06:12know, this is incorrect or this is incorrect. I really do believe that in the age of social media,
06:18there is too much black and white. There is too much binary, you know, it's either this or that.
06:23Uh, and this film is, is sort of trying to distance itself from being a political statement
06:28or argument or being provocative. Um, it's a film that's supposed to take the conversation
06:34back to the, the human experience. How does it feel as a human being to be accused of something
06:39that you didn't do? How does it feel to be out of nowhere because of a national crisis that you
06:45had
06:45nothing to do with? How does it feel to suddenly be looked at different and, and to be treated
06:50different and to be discriminated against? Um, I think the human conversation is, is the conversation
06:56that we need to be having while the world is broken at this point. We need to bring it back
07:01to that emotional level.
07:04I wanted to ask a little bit about the casting, um, because Samir is such a fascinating character
07:10and Omar who plays him is so wonderful. Omar, what can you share about the process of, of casting
07:16the role? First of all, Omar Samir is, uh, definitely very easy to work with professional
07:22and he works in the industry in Israel as an actor and he's also a filmmaker himself. Uh,
07:28we were very lucky in that process. Um, Meyer was doing the, uh, casting for, uh, the cast
07:36for this, uh, film. And, um, there was a moment we were discussing, uh, uh, which possible actor
07:46could do it. And then Meyer did the audition for Omar and me as a producer, uh, he told me
07:54Omar couldn't do it. The dates we, that we originally went for. And I said, this is not going to
08:00be
08:00possible. We got to do the movie. We have schedule. We've, we already have the crew and everything.
08:06Everything is all set to go. And Meyer insisted. He said, no, this is the guy. The audition went
08:12far and beyond what I, uh, what I wanted. And maybe you could, uh, fill in the gap in there.
08:18Omar Samir, uh, came recommended to us, uh, by an Arab actor agent in Israel. And there aren't
08:25a lot of Arab Israeli actors that filled, uh, um, filled the typecast that I was looking for.
08:32Um, so I came to him and I told him what, what the script is about. And he was like,
08:37okay,
08:37you're going to audition Omar. And I'm like, can I have a few other actors? And he's like, no,
08:41you're only going to audition him. He's your guy. Um, and I'm like, okay. Uh, and then when I
08:48auditioned him, not only was he a phenomenal actor, but also he had to take on the scene where he's
08:54being accused that I didn't even think of, which was originally that scene, he was supposed to come
08:59in and he was, he was going to be accused. And then he was supposed to confront her and be
09:03like,
09:03this isn't okay. You know, you have no proof. And what happened is instead he, he sort of played it
09:09like he was extremely heartbroken. And he was so offended by the fact that another person that he
09:17knew, um, suddenly looked at him in this way, like he was a danger. Um, and that was, that really
09:24touched me. And, and I immediately, uh, casted him, uh, even though, uh, Oran was annoyed that it
09:32was a scheduling problem, but we, you know, we, we pushed everything in order to make it happen.
09:37And, uh, the whole entire film, it really, he really catches that essence of the whole entire
09:42film because it's like, you expect it to be, you know, arguing in the film because the film does
09:48touch on political issues, but it's not arguing. It's like, it's a person that's just hurt.
09:56There's that moment in that scene where he says to her, you know, me, you know, there is a, there's
10:01a,
10:01there's a immediate kind of understanding, even for the audience that she's wrong because we can see
10:08in his eyes, um, and then that performance, um, just how hurt he is by that moment. Um, in addition
10:15to that, I, I do wonder even for both of you, what you learned by working with him and obviously
10:21leaning on his experience and ensuring that you were portraying this character and this experience
10:27in a way that was both authentic and very true to what he would know. So what can you both
10:32say about
10:32that? Um, I think that working with Omar, uh, Omar, by the way, is, I think you mentioned it,
10:42but he's a director and, um, a DOP himself, um, working with him when I wrote the script originally,
10:51I had, you know, I try to write a script that's complex, that's interesting, but when he came into
10:58the, when I casted him, essentially he took that, uh, and he taught me a lot about, you know,
11:06his community and how his community feels in this time. And he was able to, you know, put in some
11:13nuances in his acting, uh, and in the dialogue itself that a lot of the times he sort of makes
11:18up sometimes on the spot and, you know, we do a few takes and, and there's a lot of, um,
11:23uh, kind
11:23of making things up, uh, uh, you know, the dialogue that the actors themselves are comfortable
11:28with. And he was able to put into, in those, in those nuances of the movie itself, but even
11:34outside the film, getting to know him, um, and connecting with him through this film. And we did
11:40a screening in Umar Fakhim, which is a, um, the Palestinian Arab Israeli town in Israel. And it's
11:48been such a profound experience for me to be able to connect with an entire community through a film.
11:53Yeah. I'm like, yeah. Filmmaking is just a wonderful thing because it's on the set that we all connect
12:06on a very, like on a creative level, on a very basic level. And I think it was, um, it
12:15immediately
12:16shows how, um, it doesn't matter what your background is. Once you're on set and everybody's
12:24working hard, believing in a script and working towards, uh, creating something so beautiful.
12:32Um, it's just, um, it's, uh, it's, it's not that we learned from him or he learned from us. It
12:41was just
12:41a collaborative work towards, um, what you just saw.
12:48When it comes to the characterization and particularly that climactic moment when he
12:54essentially walks away from the, from the situation, was it, was that always scripted
12:59that way? How did you land on where you wanted to leave this character, particularly with the
13:03conflict? I want to ask you about the last scene separately, but in terms of the actual conflict
13:07of the film, um, that was in the first draft. Uh, I was writing up until that moment. And while,
13:15while I was writing the script, I was, I was, I got to that scene and I was just thinking
13:19like,
13:20what could you possibly even say? Is he just going to explain to them that the air conditioning unit is,
13:25is what's, you know, tearing down the posters. And then I realized that essentially the, so I could
13:33sort of write it so that the way that they look at him, the way that they gaze at him,
13:39uh, sort of
13:40tells him all he needs to know, which is that they're not ready for change. This whole entire film,
13:45the way that they, the other characters behaved, um, it just shows that society has brought them to a
13:55point that they just can't accept him as a part of, uh, society, which is a very, it's a tragic
14:03moment and it's a very sad moment, but it's also an essential moment because it's for me as a
14:08filmmaker to admit I have 26 minutes, but I can't change things in 26 minutes. I can't solve things
14:16in 26 minutes. And society at this point, even worldwide, isn't ready for change. We're kind of
14:21in this position where we're stuck. And the only way to get out of that position is to be authentic
14:27and truthful about the fact that we're in that position, the fact that, that we are stuck and that
14:32we are broken and that the only way to actually fix things is to look into each other's eyes and
14:38respect one another and have a respectful conversation. I want to ask Oran about casting
14:51Meyer. I'm sure you all recognized him in the film. Um, it's a pivotal part, right? And I think it's
14:59a
14:59fascinating role for you to take on, um, within the context of the story you're telling. So I'm curious,
15:04like from your perspective, what that discussion was for him to act in the movie. Yeah. Isn't he a great
15:10actor? Um, so well, the thing is with Meyer, he did act in his previous projects that we, we worked
15:21on
15:22and it was kind of a natural, uh, way for him to be there. And, um, I think we both
15:29knew that at least I knew
15:31that it was a good choice. And it's, I think, you know, I think, uh, I think it nailed the
15:38part. I mean,
15:39I hate you. I just, just hate him. Um, no, but it's like, uh, he's, he's just, he's just a
15:45good actor. He's good
15:46in front of the camera. And that was it. We knew it was going to happen. I got in the
15:52film. Yes. Because, uh,
15:55the producer in a student film, low budget, you do everything for the movie to move forward. And we weren't,
16:02uh,
16:03able to cast Avram on time. And so there I was, you know, um, well, as I'm bringing food in
16:11and getting people out of the set when they're done with their day, I'm, uh, also jumping, uh,
16:18in front of the camera. I wrote that part for you. Uh, I can speak to, first of all, I
16:28do usually play
16:29my own films, but suddenly when there's like a professional set and made all these people on set
16:35running to the monitor and then running to the camera and then running back to the monitor and
16:39watching it play back. I don't know. I mean, it's, it was really, it was really challenging,
16:43but the reason that I, and I really wanted to do that part was because I felt like as a
16:49filmmaker,
16:50when you make a film about racism and discrimination, sometimes there's a sense of like, I made, I made a
16:55film about racism and discrimination. And now I've kind of cleaned myself of responsibility,
17:00uh, in society, you know, I've done my part. And what I really wanted to say is that I haven't
17:05done
17:05my part yet. Like the film is, is important, but also I have to go out and vote. I have
17:11to protest.
17:12Uh, I have to stand up for what I believe in. And that was important for me. So I just
17:18didn't want
17:18to separate myself from the film. I wanted to be a part of it. I wanted to show that I'm
17:22a part of
17:23everything that's going on and that I also experienced it. And then I have, I can't
17:28distance myself from the situation. I would just like to add that, uh, we had a very dependable,
17:33uh, cinematographer, uh, Sefi Elisha, Elisha Nachmani, um, as you, as you saw that he was, uh,
17:41very easy to, to, to rely on in terms of the shots being, uh, um, getting correctly and,
17:49you know, and see that mayor does his job well as an actor. So, um, and we had a wonderful
17:55crew,
17:55so it all helped. Yeah. The last shot is beautiful and quite haunting in some ways. Um,
18:02how did it develop? That was a shot that was in the script in the first draft. Um, I, I
18:09had
18:10literally written like the camera goes back and you see the hostage posters. Um,
18:16I think that what it is, is first of all, it's a memory for me. It's the sort of like
18:24pulling out
18:24with the camera and then me, myself sort of remembering this time where you would go everywhere
18:30and there would just be hostage posters everywhere because they were all, um, taken captive. Uh,
18:37and it was just, it was a very haunting time. As you said, it was a very haunting time in
18:41history
18:41just to be going around the war is still going on. Um, everything that's happening, all the violence
18:47and it's just, you see these hostage posters everywhere. So that was like sort of a memory
18:55for me. Uh, it was 2024. It had been a year since, um, the beginning of the war. And that
19:02was,
19:02that was how I sort of thought of it, you know, visually. But, um, I think narratively,
19:08the way that I thought about it was Samir kind of looks at the camera in that last scene,
19:13you know, he's sort of like looking around and then suddenly he looks at directly down the barrel
19:17of the camera. Um, and that was my way of saying Samir has done everything that he can.
19:24He's, he's, he's tried everything. Uh, he's tried to prove his innocence silently. He's tried to prove
19:31his innocence by confronting, uh, the person who was framing him unfairly and nobody listens. Uh,
19:37and he's always viewed as a danger and he's always viewed as someone who was just not part of,
19:42of society. And now it's our turn. Now it's the viewer's turn to be, now I wanted to initiate the
19:49viewer and say, the film isn't over because we can still do something. We can still, uh, speak about it.
19:56We can still, um, you know, stand up for, for these issues and, and, you know, we can still respect
20:03one
20:03another. This film of course is nominated for the Oscar for best live action short. Congratulations
20:09to both. And so here you are in Los Angeles sharing this film with folks. Uh, you mentioned
20:20showing it in Israel as well as this film has grown. And as you have, you know, its audiences
20:26expanded, I, I'm curious just about kind of how the reactions, how you've observed them from place
20:31to place, especially making a movie about a topic as fraud as this, like what it's been like to kind
20:37of take it around the world. Um, the reactions. So, so it's a question that divides into two. What
20:45are the reactions of people seeing on the internet? And what are the reactions of people, uh, who
20:50actually watch the film? Um, as ever by there. Um, I mean, people online sometimes kind of read
20:58that log line. Um, and people have gotten mad over it because they think that it's, it's a film that
21:06sort of, um, represents some sort of one-sided argument that, you know, this side is bad and this
21:14side is good. And, and, you know, it's the opposite of what the film is trying to do. So, I
21:19mean, we have
21:20been, um, sort of attacked online. We have been, um, the culture minister has, has said some things
21:27about us. Um, but I think the important thing is that when people do see the film and this is
21:34people
21:34that, you know, come from all types of backgrounds and people that come from all types of, uh, politics,
21:40they realize that there's nothing to get mad at because it's just a guy. And he's just going
21:46through this sort of complicated, this situation where he's being accused unfairly and it's a human
21:54experience. It's not me trying to convince you of my political opinion. It's the opposite. I made
22:00this film so that people can talk more about these things so that people can have a conversation.
22:05Maybe you disagree with some things in the film. Maybe you disagree with what Samir is saying or what
22:10he's posting online. Maybe you don't, you know, it's, it's really about, um, the fact that we're
22:16all humans and we can all connect to being unfairly accused and we can all connect to having a
22:21complicated situation, family situation, like what Samir has. Um, but the most profound, uh, reactions
22:29was the screening in Umar Fakhim that I, uh, spoke about, which is, uh, again, it's a Palestinian Arab
22:36Israeli town and it's Omar's hometown. So he's like Brad Pitt there now. Um, and well, which is always
22:45very exciting for us to see that he's getting the credit that he deserves. Um, and people came up
22:52to me after the screening and they were like, listen, it's a good film. We really liked the
22:57way it was shot. We really liked the way it was acted, but this is our experience. This is our
23:02day
23:02to day. So it's not only a film, it's also your responsibility. Now you, you have the responsibility
23:07to represent us, uh, in a respectful way. You have the responsibility to show this film
23:14to people. And so I realized that when you do make a film about such a sensitive topic,
23:20a topic that is the daily struggle of certain communities, you then have not only a film,
23:28but you also have a responsibility. That's right to you. Um, Meyer obviously, uh, wanted
23:35to write something, um, about his, about a specific experience and, uh, what is obviously relevant,
23:44but he also wrote a script about a guy, an everyday guy who struggles, who has a family, who, who
23:52just trying to, um, to, how do you say, um, provide for his family and is struggling in, uh, in
24:02a workplace
24:03that is, uh, slowly becoming, or suddenly becoming, uh, a sort of hostile to him. When I, when, uh, again,
24:12as a, call me naive. When I read the script, I saw just a great story. I saw a fascinating
24:17story
24:18that I, I thought was worth, uh, working hard for and, uh, uh, putting out there. And so that's my
24:26perspective on it, but I, I, I'm also aware of the, of the, um, uh, emotional and relevant
24:34and very truthful, um, perspective that you have on the project.
24:40Wonderful. Meyer, Oran, thank you so much. Thank you all for coming out tonight.
24:43Thank you very much.
Comments