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TVTranscrição
00:00London, England
00:11In the winter of 1983, we had a problem in the Maswell Hill area of London.
00:21It all started when a customer called because of a clogged toilet.
00:25Building number 23 on Cranley Gardens is divided into apartments and studio apartments.
00:33Residents have been experiencing plumbing problems for days.
00:39At the time, the engineer went to check the clogged toilet.
00:43He resolved the problem, but later told us that he had never smelled such a strong odor in the apartment.
00:55Even so, the building's toilets continue to clog.
01:01The plumber was sent urgently on a Saturday morning.
01:05And when he checked the sewer under the building, he saw things that shouldn't be there.
01:13He looked and saw, according to him, what appeared to be pieces of cut meat and some bones.
01:23He discovered what was clogging the toilets.
01:26In fact, it was human flesh.
01:34On February 9, 1983, I was in my office, working normally,
01:42And I received a call from Peter Slade, who was an inspector working that shift.
01:48And he asked me if I could go to Cranley Gardens, because he was having a problem.
01:54So, I got into a car and went there.
01:57I'll never forget it, it was very cold, it had snowed, and we stood there in front of that dreadful building.
02:05And we looked inside the drainpipe, and he showed me four pieces of meat.
02:13each one measuring about seven centimeters by two, two and a half centimeters.
02:17And also three bones, with knots at the ends.
02:22And the first thing that came to my mind was that they were made by a human hand.
02:28The plumbing was clogged all the way inside the building.
02:32So we knew the problem had happened up there.
02:37The tenant of the last apartment is Dennis Andrew Nielsen, 37, an employee of an employment agency.
02:52When two colleagues and I went through the building's entrance to wait for him inside,
03:00We had no idea what we were going to find.
03:03We knew there was a murderer, but we didn't know what he had done.
03:08Nielsen came on at exactly 5:30, and before that I had spent two or three hours thinking about it.
03:17that I would face.
03:19I knew that for someone to flush a body down the toilet in pieces, they had to be somewhat different.
03:29When Nielsen walked through the door, I had already decided to be nice to him.
03:36And I remember saying, Mr. Nielsen, and he said, yes, that's me.
03:39And I said, I'm Chief Inspector, Detective Peter Jay, and I've come to talk to you about your plumbing.
03:45Then he chuckled and said, "And since when is the police interested in clogged pipes?"
03:51So I said, well, take me to your apartment, and I'll explain everything.
03:57The first thing that caught my attention was the smell of decomposing flesh.
04:02And I said, I'm here because your plumbing is clogged with human remains.
04:07And he said, "My God, what a horrible thing."
04:11So I got really close to him, face to face, looked him straight in the eyes and said, don't try to...
04:19to deceive.
04:20Where is the rest of the body?
04:23And he thought for a moment and said, in plastic bags, in the other room.
04:33Nielsen was immediately arrested and taken to the police station for questioning.
04:39One of my officers, Detective Steve McCusker, sat in the back seat while I drove.
04:48And I don't know what led Steve to do that, but suddenly he asked Nielsen,
04:52Are we talking about one body or two?
04:56And Nielsen said, not at all, I think it's sixteen.
05:06I remember the steering wheel of the car shaking in my hands.
05:12The police officers couldn't believe what they were hearing.
05:15Because all of this was said in an indifferent voice.
05:19Impassive.
05:19And why impassive?
05:21Because he was a man without feelings.
05:24The only feeling he had was when he felt the urge to kill.
05:28when he was dominated by his other self.
05:31In Nielsen's closet, there were two black garbage bags and several air fresheners.
05:38The bags contained several pieces of dismembered bodies and two severed heads.
05:44Inside a crate there is a torso, bones, and a skull.
05:49Underneath a cabinet in the bathroom, they find legs and a pelvis.
05:55They are the remains of three men.
06:00In the garden of a house in Cricklewood, investigators found the remains of at least eight more people.
06:10He told me off the record.
06:12If it hadn't been 15, it would have been 150 if we hadn't arrested him.
06:19Because he wouldn't stop.
06:24The whole story was completely bizarre.
06:30Dennis Nielsen was born in 1945 in Fraserburgh,
06:35a fishing community in northeast Scotland.
06:40His mother's family had lived there for generations.
06:44The father was a Norwegian soldier passing through.
06:48He was the middle child of three children.
06:51He had an older brother and a younger sister.
06:53He never got to know his father.
06:56Nielsen, as a child,
06:59It was kind of lonely.
07:01He had no friends because everyone thought he was kind of strange.
07:06His mother said she couldn't hug him.
07:08He did not tolerate physical contact with anyone.
07:11except with his grandfather.
07:16Since Nielsen's father was absent,
07:19He formed a bond with his grandfather.
07:21They were walking together,
07:23They were fishing together.
07:25things like that.
07:28The boy's grandfather would spend weeks away from home.
07:31fishing in the North Sea.
07:36One day,
07:38He arrived home from school.
07:39and his mother said
07:42Well, do you want to see your grandfather?
07:44He didn't even know his grandfather was home.
07:46Then he got all excited.
07:48He went to the kitchen.
07:50And on the table there was a coffin.
07:52And inside it was his grandfather.
07:57Nobody prepared him for that fact.
08:00that he was dead.
08:04Nielsen's grandfather had died at sea.
08:06And his body had been brought in for burial.
08:10He maintained that image.
08:12engraved in the mind of the white grandfather
08:15like a sheet of paper.
08:17And I believe that
08:19It affected him deeply.
08:24Nielsen would later say...
08:26that when he saw his grandfather
08:28lying in the coffin,
08:29when his grandfather died,
08:32That's when he made the connection.
08:34for the first time love and death
08:37in a completely inert body.
08:40From that moment on,
08:42I am convinced,
08:43I can't prove it.
08:44but I am convinced
08:45than your idea of love
08:46and his idea of death
08:48they mixed together,
08:49They merged definitively.
08:54When his mother told him
08:56Your grandfather has gone to a better place.
08:58he, a six-year-old child,
09:00he thought,
09:00Well, if he went to a better place,
09:02Why didn't you take me with you?
09:06He sometimes went into the sea.
09:08and simulated drowning.
09:10as a form
09:11to be near him.
09:18At age 15,
09:20Nielsen left home.
09:24Nielsen joined the army.
09:26serving specifically in the kitchen
09:28And that's when he learned.
09:30the butcher's trade,
09:33a skill that he would use
09:36in a different way
09:38in civilian life.
09:44In 1983,
09:46the discovery of human flesh
09:48clogging the drain
09:49from building number 23
09:51from Kronling Gardens street
09:52leads to prison
09:53of the public employee
09:54Denis Nielsen.
09:57He claims to have taken his own life.
09:58of at least 15 boys.
10:03The investigators discover
10:05that he had a lonely childhood,
10:07marked by death
10:08of the beloved grandfather.
10:14At age 15,
10:15He went to serve in the army.
10:17working in the kitchen.
10:22Right from the start,
10:24The young Nielsen stood out.
10:25among the new recruits.
10:28He liked to argue,
10:30Not in a rude way.
10:34But, for example,
10:35if you said that a photo
10:37It was in black and white.
10:38He said it was in black and white.
10:40Things like that.
10:41He liked to be contrarian.
10:44We used to listen to the records.
10:46of the Beatles,
10:47of the Rolling Stones,
10:48reading Parade magazine,
10:51which was a magazine
10:52of a naked woman from that era.
10:53But he spent his time reading newspapers.
10:56and listening to classical music.
10:59And I remember that once,
11:02There was a fight in the barracks.
11:04And he kept scratching.
11:05and slapping.
11:06He didn't throw punches like we did.
11:08I remember someone saying,
11:11Ah, Nielsen,
11:12You're weird.
11:13Teenager Nielsen
11:15I had a secret.
11:17The most interesting
11:18in his military experience
11:20That would have been impossible.
11:22for Nielsen
11:23to confess
11:25that he was gay
11:26to any of your colleagues.
11:28They simply
11:29They did not accept homosexuals.
11:33So who was gay?
11:34I had to keep this a secret.
11:38During my time in the army,
11:40Nielsen began
11:40to become interested in photography.
11:43That was his hobby.
11:45The photograph.
11:46But it was more than
11:47Simply a hobby.
11:49It was his dream come true.
11:51He used to ask
11:52to my army colleagues
11:54that they should pretend to be dead
11:56as if they had
11:57have been killed in combat
11:59And then he would take a picture.
12:01They thought it was strange,
12:02But they agreed.
12:05Nielsen spent 11 years
12:07in the army,
12:07serving in the kitchen
12:08and he reached the rank of corporal.
12:13I think deep down
12:15he liked to intimidate,
12:16taking advantage of the military hierarchy,
12:18when he had to give orders
12:20and things like that.
12:21He tended a little
12:22to intimidate others.
12:25Although,
12:26shortly before turning 27,
12:29Nielsen gave up
12:29of familiarity
12:30and the order of military life
12:32and he went out into the world alone.
12:36Home video of
12:37Denis Nielsen,
12:38Courtesy of Brian Masters.
12:41In London during the 1970s,
12:43He encountered a strong gay scene.
12:45He found himself living
12:48in a very large city,
12:50where there were many gay bars
12:52that he was able to visit
12:53for the first time.
12:56People were friendlier.
12:58back then.
12:59They talked more
13:00and life in London
13:01It was much more lively.
13:02back then.
13:07He didn't look bad,
13:09He was quite polite.
13:10it was a company
13:11Quite pleasant.
13:13He was very selective.
13:14the words,
13:15He was articulate.
13:17but after a few minutes
13:19Did you realize that he didn't...
13:21I was telling you
13:22or with you,
13:23but rather talking to himself,
13:25because he wasn't paying attention
13:26nothing more
13:27than what he himself was saying.
13:28What are you doing
13:28to change the business
13:29And that's it?
13:31You never played a cameraman,
13:32he knows?
13:34No, no, no, no, no, no.
13:36I'm not going to do it.
13:36Nothing pornographic.
13:40Nielsen entered
13:41For the Metropolitan Police.
13:42It's not uncommon
13:44these individuals
13:45search
13:46a profession
13:47of authority,
13:49whether working
13:50as a police officer,
13:51civil servant
13:52or jobs like that,
13:54where they can practice
13:55control over people.
13:57They consider this
13:58Stimulating.
14:00He lived
14:01a double life,
14:02He was the policeman.
14:04metropolitan,
14:06but at the same time
14:07he was carrying
14:08a life
14:09where it expressed
14:10your sexuality
14:12and this inevitably
14:14It led to conflict.
14:18After 11 months,
14:20Nielsen got tired.
14:21of the police
14:21and he resigned.
14:23He also
14:24He was disappointed.
14:25with its transient nature
14:26of gay relationships
14:27and began to search
14:29a company
14:30more permanent.
14:31What was he looking for?
14:32It was a relationship.
14:34someone with whom
14:35he shared
14:36life.
14:38Nobody went to the clubs.
14:39behind a relationship,
14:40People only went hunting,
14:42That's what people
14:43They usually did,
14:44nobody was going after them.
14:44of a case
14:45or relationship,
14:46They just wanted sex.
14:48He started working.
14:49at an employment agency
14:51in the heart
14:51from the West End of Londrina,
14:52but the stubborn
14:54young Scotsman
14:55It didn't mix.
14:56easily.
14:58He wasn't
14:59a person
15:00who made friends
15:01easily,
15:02he wasn't
15:03a person
15:03what was
15:04joy
15:05of the party,
15:06he was
15:07self-centered
15:08too much,
15:09he was
15:10egocentric
15:11too much.
15:12He was
15:13transportation
15:13from Londrina
15:14and transportation
15:17Londrina
15:18and the supermarket
15:21and the supermarket
15:27then he
15:29you saw
15:30in this life
15:31isolation
15:32where he
15:33I found it difficult.
15:34make friends,
15:35where was
15:35very difficult
15:36for him
15:37to socialize
15:38in a way
15:39normal
15:39and this isolation
15:41it meant
15:42that he
15:43I was going back home.
15:44and surrendered
15:45to alcohol.
15:49He drank.
15:49very,
15:50in truth,
15:51I don't know
15:51if he
15:52He was an alcoholic.
15:53but he
15:53I liked
15:54to get drunk.
15:59And he
16:00also
16:00I liked
16:01very
16:01to listen
16:02music.
16:06THE
16:06Nielsen
16:07it stayed
16:08more at ease
16:09with machines
16:10and objects
16:10than
16:11with people.
16:12Then
16:13the music
16:14it was
16:14one
16:15form
16:16of
16:16control
16:17what
16:17he
16:18he was
16:18listening.
16:20you
16:20no
16:20it achieves
16:21control
16:21one
16:21person,
16:22what
16:22she
16:22go
16:23to say,
16:23as
16:23she
16:24go
16:24to respond
16:24and so on,
16:25but you
16:26it achieves
16:26control
16:27one
16:27record player.
16:28This is for you,
16:29Mrs. Robinson.
16:36in 1976,
16:38Nielsen
16:38he knew
16:39a young man
16:39wanderer,
16:40David
16:40Galichan.
16:43Galichan
16:44he was
16:44unemployed
16:45and lived
16:45in a hostel.
16:47Although they
16:47they didn't match
16:48very good,
16:49Nielsen
16:49rented an apartment
16:50so that they
16:51They lived together.
16:55avenue
16:55Melrose
16:56195
16:56Crickwell Woods,
16:58London.
16:58.
16:59.
16:59.
17:07.
17:08.
17:08.
17:08.
17:08.
17:08.
17:08.
17:31The apartment
17:33in Melrose
17:33Avenue
17:34it was good
17:34old.
17:36He
17:38he had
17:39furniture
17:40which seemed
17:40to have been
17:41purchased
17:41during the
17:42war
17:42so
17:43old people.
17:43The carpet
17:44he was
17:44in bad
17:45state
17:45and the
17:45property
17:46It was precarious.
17:47.
17:47.
17:47.
17:47.
17:47.
17:47.
17:48.
17:48.
17:48.
17:49.
17:50.
17:50.
17:51.
17:51.
17:51.
17:52.
17:53.
17:53.
17:53.
18:15The apartment
18:16it had doors
18:17in the background
18:17that gave
18:17for a garden.
18:18Nobody from the upper floor
18:20He could enter the garden.
18:21Only he had access.
18:22to him
18:22through these doors.
18:28.
18:28.
18:42But Nielsen's rude and controlling manner ended up alienating his teammates.
18:53David Galichan abandoned him a year and a half later.
19:04And Nielsen suffered a lot, I'm sure of it.
19:10He was a lonely man, because in the end everyone got tired of him and left.
19:20So what he was looking for was companionship, a relationship.
19:25And that was precisely what he was completely incapable of having, both psychologically and sociologically.
19:34So he started inviting more and more people to his house, hoping that someone would stay.
19:40He asked me to move in with him and I said, I don't think I can stand his drinking.
19:44The bottle is between us, you're drinking too much, you need to stop.
19:48If you would stop by, you would be very pleasant company.
19:51But he couldn't stop.
19:54I just couldn't stop.
19:55He was very selfish; it was all about him, him, and him.
19:59He almost never asked me anything about myself.
20:18The lonely Nielsen increasingly retreated into his morbid fantasies.
20:24He used to lie on the floor in front of a mirror and put blue paint on his lips and leave it in his eyes.
20:31as if injected with blood.
20:33And he took pleasure in seeing himself in the mirror that way.
20:37I don't believe it was emotional satisfaction, but a deep need of his nature that was obviously perverse.
20:45He would pretend to have fainted and fall to the ground.
20:50Then you'd try to help him, and he'd just lie there.
20:52But deep down I knew he wasn't sleeping, that he hadn't fainted, that he was awake.
20:58He was still there.
20:59You could sit down, you could prepare a meal, watch TV, and he would still be there.
21:06But I knew he wasn't sleeping.
21:08I knew.
21:09He was always in this position with his arms open and outstretched.
21:14I think he was pretending to be dead.
21:19Throughout this time, Nielsen continued to play the role of a discreet civil servant.
21:25He would wake up in the morning; he's a civil servant, he goes to work and comes back at night.
21:31He tends the garden, he cooks, and he has a dog named Bleep.
21:36Bleep!
21:37Come on!
21:39Come on, Bleep, say something!
21:41So, within all of this, there is the banality, the normality of suburban life.
21:51Bleep, say something!
21:52But of course, Dennis Nielsen had no understanding of what an ordinary life is, you know?
22:00The ordinary life that most people have, because he wanted to be extraordinary.
22:17On the first day of 1979, 33-year-old Dennis Nielsen woke up next to a teenager he had met at
22:25the previous night.
22:28Later, the civil servant would say that he couldn't bear the thought of seeing the boy wake up and leave.
22:35There was a moment when the murderous impulse to keep the boy there, to not let him leave, overwhelmed him.
22:42Nielsen grabbed a tie, put it around the boy's neck, and pulled.
22:47He was surprised by his own strength at the moment of the assassination.
22:51He was impressed by his own strength, because he wasn't a strong man.
23:00After the murder occurred and Nielsen had a body in front of him,
23:06So, in a very curious way, he began to take care of his body.
23:14For the first time, Dennis Nielsen had the opportunity to live out his most secret and darkest fantasies.
23:24He took the body to the bathtub, cleaned it, washed it, and placed it in a comfortable position.
23:31He dried the body, put it on the bed, then placed it in an armchair and...
23:37Nielsen lived with the corpse for a week.
23:41Then he placed the naked body under the floorboards, where it remained for almost eight months.
23:47If you have a body, you need to think of a way to get rid of it.
23:51Of course, try to prevent the body from being identified as much as possible.
23:55Nielsen was efficient.
23:58He couldn't connect with anyone emotionally.
24:02but she was able to relate to a body that needed to be disposed of.
24:06It was a problem to be solved, and that was much easier than dealing with people and their emotions.
24:12Nielsen's garden would be the solution.
24:15He burned the boy's body in the garden of the house on Melrose Avenue.
24:21disposing of the corpse and scattering the ashes to the four winds.
24:26It wasn't until 2005 that the victim was identified as 14-year-old Stephen Holmes.
24:34His death would be just the first.
24:39I think the first murder any serial killer commits is always the reveal.
24:45He takes pleasure in killing, and I believe that's the same pleasure he feels with the first death.
24:50which leads him to kill again, and again, and again.
24:58Well, we're in the heart of the Sorro neighborhood, on Old Compton Street.
25:04And this was the region that Dennis Nielsen liked to frequent.
25:10He used to come here in his free time, to this area and to the gay bars in particular.
25:17to try to make contact with people.
25:23He was in contact with many young people who arrived in London thinking that they would realize their dreams here.
25:30who probably did not have a fixed address,
25:33Perhaps they had run away from home, dropped out of school.
25:39People like that.
25:40The people Nielsen was going to meet were people he instinctively and with a great nose for
25:48He recognized them as lonely young men who would undoubtedly accept an invitation to his house.
25:56These young people are usually not officially reported missing.
26:01So his target was this group of people, just like many other serial killers.
26:12While living on Melrose Avenue, Dennis Nielsen took 11 boys home, strangled them, and killed them.
26:29When you strangle someone, you can feel them, you can touch them, you grab whatever is at hand and pull.
26:39I always suspected that Nielsen killed the people he didn't want to see leaving at midnight or
26:47at one in the morning.
26:49The boys he wanted to stay, and the ones he didn't want to stay, could leave at the end of the...
26:55night.
26:58That may be true to some extent, but I analyze it differently.
27:04I would say that he wanted the bodies to remain there so that they would show him the control he had.
27:10about other people.
27:12That's what's exciting for someone like Nielsen, having complete control and dominance over others.
27:20Nielsen used the victims' bodies sexually and in other ways.
27:26He wanted to keep those bodies close by, almost as if they were a trophy.
27:32He desperately wanted to express his power, his total domination over these young people, even after they were dead.
27:45After he killed them, sometimes he would take them to the garden, put them in a chair and talk to them.
27:52as if they were still alive.
27:56He watched television with them, he talked to them.
28:00He would go so far as to come home from work and find the corpse he had left in the chair.
28:09morning and say,
28:10Guess what happened to me today?
28:12So this was a substitute for real human companionship.
28:18Denis Nielsen was so self-centered, he was so desperate for his opinion to be the only opinion that counted and
28:27It mattered, of course.
28:28He found it easier to relate to a dead boy, incapable of arguing back.
28:35And he kept the corpse with him for days until it became unbearable.
28:41He would then eviscerate the body and bury the spleen in the garden, along with any other organs that had decomposed.
28:51Then he would put the rest of the body under the floorboards.
28:55An obsessive-compulsive personality, where the person focuses on details, order, etc.
29:02It is very common in prolific serial killers, because this personality trait helps them to deceive the police.
29:10They know what material evidence is, they clean things meticulously, and so on.
29:16After a while, the bodies that kept Nielsen company became a nuisance to him.
29:24They were getting in the way, so he needed to get rid of them for a number of reasons.
29:29First, they smelled bad.
29:31And they were also a hindrance because he wanted to bring other young men alive to his apartment.
29:37I would sometimes sleep there, or spend the weekend there, things like that.
29:43All I can say is that the smell in the apartment on Mary Rose Avenue was the smell of something.
29:50Rotten, something like that, I don't know, a smell of some kind of animal.
29:53And it was very strong, it was really unpleasant.
29:57But nothing else caught my attention, nothing at all.
30:01With no more space under the floorboards, the decomposing bodies were cut into smaller pieces and taken to the garden.
30:12In the middle of the night, he would light huge bonfires with the remains and mask the smell by adding tires.
30:22And the street children would come and dance around the bonfire because they thought it was fun, without having the slightest idea.
30:29than what was happening.
30:31Dennis Nielsen killed and disposed of the bodies of 12 boys without raising suspicion.
30:39In 1981, he moved to another address, where his behavior became increasingly bizarre.
30:48Between 1979 and 1981, civil servant Dennis Nielsen killed and disposed of the bodies of 12 young men in his
30:57Apartment in the London borough of Criquowood.
30:59In October 1981, he moved into a rented apartment on the top floor of building number 23 on street number 23.
31:07Cranley Gardens, Muswell Hill,
31:09where their perverse fantasies would take a turn.
31:13Cole Stotter, then 21 years old, met the friendly and kind Nielsen at the Black Up bar in Camden.
31:23He took me to his apartment.
31:27He seemed like such a nice guy.
31:30He didn't have the word "murderer" tattooed on his forehead, or anything like that.
31:36Yeah, he was nice.
31:39What he did, then, was, well, attack him from behind with a tie to choke him.
31:48He tried to kill me.
31:53He strangled me.
31:55He thought he was dead, but he wasn't.
31:59Then he tried to drown me in a bathtub.
32:01When Nielsen thought he was dead, he made a rum and coke drink, lit a cigarette, and let it all out.
32:08Oh my God, here we go again, as if it were someone else doing it.
32:13He describes it as if it were almost a trance.
32:16As if he were committing this act without being aware of what he was doing.
32:20And, yes, yes, yes, that's almost typical.
32:25Serial killers say it's almost like waking up and thinking, oh my God, what am I doing?
32:34doing?
32:34When he realized the man was alive, he grabbed some blankets and rubbed his legs to get the blood circulating.
32:41better and lit a bonfire.
32:45CPR, mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.
32:50He brought me back to life.
32:52I stayed there for three days.
32:54This is a classic example from Nielsen.
32:57He wanted to kill, he tried to kill, he believed he had killed the victim, but then he realized the young man was still there.
33:05alive.
33:06And he began to act like a good Samaritan, trying to help the young man get better.
33:12Dennis Nielsen is able to inhabit a kind of parallel universe, where he no longer sees himself as someone who
33:21is doing evil,
33:22but rather interprets their actions as those of someone who does something good.
33:29Carl Stotter wouldn't be the only one to see Nielsen's charade as a good Samaritan.
33:35At least three other boys were strangled, but were later allowed to leave.
33:41The attacks were not investigated by the police.
33:46Most police officers say, well, you were practicing sadomasochism, it's your fault, you participated.
33:55And this humiliation, plus the decision of, oh, I don't want to be known for this type of behavior, ends up protecting...
34:04The serial killer.
34:06And all indications suggest that Nielsen's bizarre behavior wasn't limited to just strangers.
34:12I fell asleep on the floor; I wasn't in bed.
34:16Then I woke up and he was on top of me, he had a kitchen knife.
34:23But behind him I saw smoke; there was a gas heater on the wall that had apparently fallen.
34:32I couldn't have knocked him down with my feet.
34:36The room was full of smoke and I said, "What's the knife for?"
34:40And he said, I was trying to cut it, I was trying to pull it off the wall so there wouldn't be an explosion.
34:45I'm sure that when I went to sleep, the gas heater wasn't on.
34:50Because he was already asleep and it was a pleasant night.
34:54I remember thinking about those things, but then I forgot about it.
34:58But I believe he was going to do something.
35:01He was trying to suffocate me.
35:04But not everyone escaped with their life.
35:09Like all serial killers, they start slowly.
35:13And then they become more frantic and start killing more people in shorter intervals of time.
35:19The addiction becomes so prevalent that bodies begin to pile up.
35:25On Cronley Gardens, three men suffered the same fate as the twelve killed on Melrose Avenue.
35:33But unlike his former residence, Nielsen's apartment had no space under the floorboards.
35:42He would boil the skulls to remove all the meat and then cut them into small pieces.
35:51To him, the flesh of those people was the same as the meat he sliced in the army.
35:57They meant absolutely nothing to him emotionally.
36:02It was just something he did.
36:08There was half a body under the bathtub.
36:11Pieces of another were in the cupboard in black bags.
36:17On the day I went back there, on the last day, he wouldn't let me into the apartment.
36:22He was in a stranger mood than I'd ever seen him in.
36:26He was completely agitated.
36:28I didn't understand what was happening.
36:30Then the dog came down the stairs and he said,
36:33Hold the door, but don't go in.
36:35And I thought, how great, I've known you for so long and you won't let me into your apartment.
36:40I thought, he probably doesn't trust me.
36:43Then he took the dog upstairs and said, "You didn't come in, did you?"
36:45And I said, no, I'm standing here, I'm not.
36:47I didn't understand anything.
36:50Nielsen's desperate efforts to dispose of the bodies would seal his fate.
36:56On February 9th, the clogged plumbing would lead to his discovery and arrest.
37:13For some strange reason, at the moment they said,
37:17Maswell Hill, even without giving the address or anything,
37:21I knew, I knew, I knew it was him.
37:25It's him. I don't know why I thought that.
37:27Then, an hour later, I listened more carefully and they said,
37:32Cranley Gardens. And that was his home.
37:36I...
37:44Can you stop for a second?
37:53In custody,
37:55Dennis Nielsen described the murder of 15 boys in great detail.
38:01He saw no reason to build a house.
38:03Alright. Since you've got me arrested, let's get on with it.
38:08Nielsen gave us all the information he could remember.
38:13We questioned him 16 times over the following months.
38:18During the interrogations, he was completely calm.
38:24Quite cold, without remorse.
38:26He showed no remorse whatsoever.
38:32In November,
38:33Dennis Nielsen was sentenced to life imprisonment.
38:37Over a period of four years,
38:39He took the lives of 15 boys.
38:43But, is the gentle assassin...
38:46Born to kill?
38:48Dennis Nielsen clearly
38:50was born with a defective gene,
38:51which would eventually cause problems in a way
38:54or otherwise.
38:54It's like a person being born with a gene.
38:57which makes her prone
38:58to feel anger or jealousy.
39:01No one is born with a
39:04inevitability with regard to their future.
39:07The future is shaped by experience.
39:09She can alter the defective gene.
39:12but, for sure,
39:14that's not the same as saying that
39:15He inherited the wickedness.
39:17Nielsen could have become
39:19a completely different person,
39:21unbalanced because of the inherited gene.
39:23He would still have flaws.
39:25But he wouldn't necessarily be a murderer.
39:28The idea that he was born badly
39:29It doesn't make sense.
39:31He was raised in circumstances
39:33relatively banal, common.
39:36There were elements in his life
39:38which were unique
39:39or that were difficult for him to overcome.
39:42But the circumstances of his childhood,
39:45the sufferings and tribulations
39:47from his childhood,
39:48These weren't things that just happened.
39:50with Dennis Nielsen.
39:51Yes, things happen.
39:54with hundreds of thousands of children.
39:56And if Dennis Nielsen was born to kill,
39:59So, these hundreds of thousands of children
40:01who lived through those same circumstances
40:04as we grow,
40:05They would also be murderers.
40:06So, no,
40:07I don't believe Dennis Nielsen
40:09Born to kill.
40:10You can be born with a problem,
40:13But you have to keep it under control.
40:15If you don't keep it under control,
40:17It's your fault.
40:22I don't think he was born to kill.
40:24But circumstances made it so.
40:27Dennis was a necrophiliac.
40:29He was controlling.
40:31I think that,
40:32if he couldn't get what he wanted from one person,
40:36like some nights he couldn't get through to me,
40:39so, if he wanted to,
40:40And if he was drunk and horny,
40:43I'm talking about sex.
40:44So he did everything he could to achieve it.
40:45He would do anything to achieve it.
40:47anything.
40:50I believe that these people,
40:53largely,
40:54They are born to kill.
40:56It's a biopsychosocial problem.
40:59But biology, in my opinion,
41:01It's a very large component.
41:03We don't know which one it is.
41:05specifically,
41:06the biological problem,
41:08the neurobiological,
41:10if it's genetic,
41:11hormonal,
41:12chemical,
41:12electric,
41:13brain damage,
41:14a combination of factors.
41:17but,
41:17a number of things are necessary,
41:20go wrong,
41:22so that a sex killer,
41:23in series,
41:24be created.
41:27Dennis Nielsen himself,
41:29claims to have fought,
41:30to find a reason,
41:31for their crimes.
41:33I'm impressed.
41:35because I didn't cry,
41:36by these victims.
41:37I don't cry,
41:38by myself,
41:39nor by those,
41:40who suffered because of my actions.
41:42Am I a weak person?
41:44constantly pressured,
41:46who didn't know how to deal with it,
41:48and ended up seeking revenge,
41:50against society,
41:51through the fog,
41:52From a bottle of liquor?
41:54Or perhaps it is,
41:55because I was born,
41:56a very bad man.
41:59Self-indulgent lies.
42:00For me,
42:01this here,
42:02It makes absolutely no sense.
42:04These are self-indulgent lies.
42:06for him to try to justify,
42:08his behavior.
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