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More than a Market: Europe Last's Stand
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00:00So, I will start with Enrico, because he has written a report, he has not only written, he has spent
00:12a lot of time on that report,
00:15which is much more than the market, that Europe is much more than the market, and he reminded us how
00:25Europe is important.
00:27So, Enrico, can you explain a little bit what there is in this report, and why, before you are answering
00:38the question, and we will do the same with Thierry, so, but double the report.
00:46Thank you so much, Maurice, for the invitation, I'm very glad to be here, and first of all, I'm very
00:54glad to be here with someone who was decisive to have my report,
01:00because what Thierry did in the years in which Thierry was the commissioner for single market was decisive to try
01:08to raise the level of industrial policy competitiveness and being able to discuss about the future of the European single
01:18market.
01:18So, they asked me to write a report, a report saying how the single market can be relaunched, and I
01:26started by saying two things that can be interesting for this audience.
01:30First, we have to add something to the single market, because the single market in Europe is well known as
01:38the market of the four freedoms, freedom of movement of goods, services, capitals, and people.
01:45And if you give a look to this quadri-partition, it's a quadri-partition that gives us the idea of
01:51the economy of the last century.
01:53We miss completely the intangible in these four goods, services, capitals, and people.
02:00This is why, first point of the report, fifth freedom, we have to add innovation, knowledge, all the intangible, because
02:09it is the point where, as Europeans, we are lagging behind.
02:12And the second one is the fact that, in reality, we have the currency, which is the same in Europe,
02:19we were very good in creating a single currency, but on the economic side, when the single market was created
02:27in the 80s, the member states also said, there are three topics, we keep it for us, not for Brussels.
02:35And these three topics are energy, telecom, and financial services.
02:43So we have this paradox of having the same currency and 27 financial different markets.
02:50The same currency and 27 telecom markets, same currency and 27 energy markets.
02:59And with the raise in the last 30 years of China, India, the BRICS, and, of course, EU competitiveness, we
03:09are understanding that we are all too small, the countries alone.
03:14So we have to integrate, we have to complete, and this is the other main point of the report.
03:19So you mentioned intangible, and I think that Thierry is smiling, I'm smiling, because Thierry was thinking about intangible in
03:362005, and he thought at that time that maybe he should look at the potential of intangible and he asked
03:46for a report.
03:47And I think someone, he was a young entrepreneur at that time, very promising, accepted to write a report, Enrico,
04:00sur l'économie de l'immatériel, and it was Maurice.
04:04And we did it in 2005, and because of his work, we have now, in France, the first country ever
04:14to have a line in our budget just to evaluate les assets immatériels en France.
04:23And that's because of Maurice. It was 15 years ago.
04:26Mais tu ne sais pas que j'ai copié son rapport, j'ai mis son rapport sans le dire.
04:33So, building on what Enrico has said, you have been not only a minister of France, not only a CEO
04:42of global companies, but you have been also at the heart of the commission, in charge of the most sensitive
04:50issues of Europe.
04:52So, what is your take on the report of Enrico?
04:57Well, I will say this very simply.
05:00We achieve already a lot over the past 70 years.
05:05We have built the foundation of our common destiny.
05:13450 million inhabitants in Europe, with the same values, the same rule of laws, the same vision.
05:23Yes, of course, 27 countries.
05:26But we have decided to put together everything we had in common, in order to be able to exercise now
05:35what is more necessary than ever,
05:37balance of power, balance of power, in a world where this will be absolutely critical.
05:44But in order to do this, and Enrico mentions this very clearly, and what I really like in his report,
05:50is that he has been the first one to say, well, Jacques Delors did a great job to start to
06:00put the foundation of the internal market.
06:05But, he said, now we need a new momentum, and we need to go further, not only this fifth dimension,
06:13but what is even more important, I think, for all of us.
06:16This is what we need to achieve now.
06:19And it was very clear, and it is very clear, the integration in energy, in telecommunications, and for capital union
06:28market.
06:30We know how to do it.
06:32Our teams work together, Enrico.
06:35We have prepared the way.
06:37We pave the way.
06:38It is ready.
06:40But now, of course, like always in life, and you know this, you are entrepreneurs.
06:47The vision is important.
06:50Thank you, Enrico.
06:52Because of you, we have the vision.
06:54Now, it's a matter of execution.
06:57But the time is now.
06:59We cannot wait.
07:01For the integration of our capital union market, it is now.
07:05Every single year, at least 150 billion euros left Europe to go invest in the US.
07:16Why not?
07:16We will prefer, of course, to have this money to finance startups, companies, SMEs, innovation labs.
07:27And we need to do this to have the profoundness, a deep internal market.
07:34Same thing for telecommunication.
07:35We have, I think, Enrico, more than 120 telecom operators.
07:40When in the US, they are only free.
07:42And in China, same thing.
07:44We need to change our rules.
07:47Of course, I have been the chairman and CEO of Orange.
07:49So, what I'm saying here, I say, oh, Terry, you speak for your former company.
07:53No.
07:54I speak for our children.
07:56I speak for our future.
07:58And, of course, in terms of energy.
08:00Energy is more critical than ever.
08:02We have a goal.
08:04The Green Deal, 2050.
08:06Zero CO2 continent.
08:08In order to do this, we need to electrify our continent.
08:11We need to have a unified energy market.
08:15And Enrico was the one to show us the way.
08:19Now, we need to put it in motion.
08:21So, I would like now that, and we will continue that, on the report of Enrico and also your many
08:28suggestions.
08:29I would like that you react on what John Elkan has said regarding, on the one hand, the strength that
08:39we have and the limitations.
08:41You have heard that from the corridor.
08:47And, also, something which is quite interesting, because Alain Specht, the Nobel Prize of physics, quantum physics, absolutely, and Thierry
09:00is a specialist.
09:03And, Alain Specht said, I'm optimistic.
09:07So, please, Enrico, when you listen to people like John, do you agree with his statement?
09:15And, how can we execute in order to transform what we believe are our strengths into action?
09:24There's a point that John mentioned before that I really fully agree, and it's part of the answer and to
09:32the reaction, is the point about the mentality.
09:35That was the key point of what he said before.
09:38And, we have a strong, I would say, question mark, conundrum, always in Europe.
09:49We are 27 countries with a long history.
09:53Long history means, also, for instance, each country has his own corporate law.
10:00And, his own corporate law comes from hundreds of years of history.
10:05It is very complicated to say, today, to all the different countries, now, you cancel your business law, because we
10:13need to have just one business law at the European level.
10:16But, with the people like you, working with 27 different business laws, it's a mess.
10:24So, we need to integrate.
10:26But, at the same time, it's complicated to ask countries to cancel hundreds of years of history.
10:33So, the idea I put in the report, we discussed it together with Thierry, and I strongly hope that this
10:40idea can become reality soon, is the idea to create a 28th virtual state.
10:47A state that doesn't exist physically, but exists virtually.
10:52This state should have his own business law, and should have his own legal framework for start-upers, for instance.
11:08A legal framework valid everywhere in Europe.
11:11So, choosing this one, an optional one, you are able to go everywhere in Europe, without the problem that you
11:19are having today.
11:20That is, that if you move from Spain to Germany, you have to change all the different mindset and the
11:27different legal framework.
11:29The possibility to have it very fast, as a sort of European Delaware, this is, it can be, just to
11:40make understandable the point.
11:42A sort of fast track, a sort of something very, a sort of pass part two.
11:48Is the way to simplify is optional, and I'm sure if this kind of idea could come, I'm sure that
11:55you will all choose this pass part two.
11:58So, now, as Thierry said, it's time to act, because this idea is not so complicated.
12:06It's easy, it's not a battle against the member states, but it's the idea to give all the entrepreneurs the
12:12possibility to be successful in Europe.
12:15I hope this idea can come, but let me say one thing, one final thing on that.
12:20It is not only responsibility of politicians, it is also your responsibility to ask in a very vocal way to
12:31European politicians,
12:32and first, to the national politicians, if you are European, to say, please, eliminate these obstacles.
12:41We need to speak a European language to be successful in this business.
12:46Otherwise, it will be impossible.
12:48And if you are not European, it's good for you too.
12:51It's the way to invest in Europe, having a fast track, not the usual mess of 27 different legal systems.
13:00Thierry, how do you react to what…
13:03No, no, you know, again, everything is an execution.
13:07I've been a CEO, like many of you, and of course, I know that the vision is fantastic, strategy is
13:13great.
13:14The difference is made by execution.
13:17First, I would like to tell you that we have everything to succeed in Europe.
13:22And please, don't say it's too complex, we're too regulated.
13:26This is Europe.
13:28If we have the leadership, we'll be able to move forward.
13:33What we need in Europe, that's like in your business, we need leadership.
13:39And this time requires more than ever very strong leadership.
13:44We know what we can do.
13:46We know what we have to do.
13:47We know where are our strengths.
13:48We need not to be vocal.
13:51Yes, of course, this idea is great, Enrico.
13:54It is a little bit like, you know, for the one who have created their own companies,
13:59you have the ability, when you create your company, when you register your company,
14:05to select, for example, if it's in France, by une société anonyme, si vous voulez,
14:10ou une société européenne, SA or SE.
14:14It already exists.
14:16You can select, well, I want to be an SE.
14:20Now, what Enrico is proposing is, let's select to be an SE,
14:25but if it is a startup, if it is a company that you start, you will have a new status,
14:31even stronger, more, let's say, efficient than the SE,
14:39which will give you the ability to operate everywhere in Europe with the same rule.
14:44That's simple.
14:45It already exists for big companies.
14:48We need to make some small adjustments,
14:50but we need to have the courage and the leadership to do it.
14:53Maurice, the time requires strong leaders.
14:58I can't agree more.
15:01The time requires strong leaders,
15:03but there is something which has always struck me,
15:07and particularly since the time of Jacques Delors.
15:10You remember Jacques Delors?
15:12Jacques Delors was going to all the countries.
15:15He was speaking on TV.
15:17He was in all the countries with his terrible accent,
15:20and he was inviting the people to adhere to the idea of Europe.
15:27Since that time, Europe is mute.
15:31And people in the streets don't know exactly,
15:36and the young people don't know exactly what the idea of Europe is all about.
15:42I don't agree.
15:43Except, oh, I don't agree.
15:44That's good.
15:45So, we will have an argument.
15:47Remember what we had to go through when we had to cope with the COVID crisis.
15:52Yes.
15:53This is because of Europe that we have been able to tackle this together,
15:59because we were together.
16:02Remember when this terrible war of aggression started in Ukraine?
16:08We have been able to gather to say we will stand to support and help Ukrainians,
16:15because we are all concerned.
16:17So, where, when they have a threat, or an existential threat,
16:24yes, Europe is here and present.
16:26Yes, but when there is a threat.
16:28I'm speaking about the daily life, when there is no threat.
16:33But we have many threats these days around ourselves.
16:35Many threats.
16:35But we cannot count on threats in order to mobilize Europeans.
16:40I agree, but that's the way they...
16:41To understand...
16:42Yes, that's my point.
16:44Enrico, you want to react to this?
16:45Yes, you know, I think this idea of creating the optional European passepartout
16:51can be a great idea also for other important topics that are daily life for you.
16:58For instance, training.
17:00You know, in Europe, because of this crazy decision 50, 60 years ago
17:07that education is a national competence, not European,
17:11we don't have a European diploma.
17:15We don't have a European degree.
17:17Each country has his own degree, and even the mutual recognition is complicated.
17:24Quite impossible.
17:25So, the idea is to, through this 28 regime system,
17:30is to say, we create the European diploma.
17:32That can be also for you.
17:34If you have to hire someone, it would be easier passing through this system.
17:39In a nutshell, I think what is happening today is for us fundamental.
17:45I would like to end up saying that I am a great fan of Donald Trump.
17:52I think I will surprise you on that.
17:54But I am a great fan of Donald Trump.
17:57Because what Trump is doing is obliging us, the Europeans,
18:03to integrate and take our own responsibilities because of the external threat.
18:09And that is, for me, the only way to oblige European leaders to be more united.
18:15Because otherwise, without an external threat,
18:18it will be very complicated to find this motivation.
18:21So, thank you, Donald.
18:22Donald, I agree with you.
18:24I think he is, with his behavior,
18:28he is forcing us to think differently and to unite and to build.
18:35One word about this 28 country.
18:38I like the idea because this means, okay,
18:41we are not changing the rule in each country.
18:44We are creating common rule, a little bit like there was the SME.
18:53You remember this monetary unit before the euro.
19:00And this has helped creating a corridor where everyone could agree.
19:04How this will work?
19:08This 28th century.
19:10But, for instance, for startups, the idea is for the commission,
19:16the commission put this idea among the programs,
19:19is to create now, very fastly,
19:23a set of rules that can be, of course,
19:26negotiated among the 27 countries in Brussels.
19:29And the set of rules creates the framework for a startup.
19:33The startup can choose, as Thierry just said,
19:38can choose this one,
19:39and through this one,
19:41you can avoid to change business law from one country to another
19:46if you have to move in the rest of Europe.
19:49This is the way in which that can come fast
19:52without the burden that is today the most important one,
19:56and without, for you, being obliged to pay hundreds of lawyers
20:01to help you in moving from the German business law to the Poland.
20:05It's a little bit like société européenne.
20:07Yes, exactly.
20:08This is why it will be already when you will have to select
20:11where on how to register
20:14and you will write your bylaws,
20:17you will have the options to select one or the other.
20:19I would like to jump on your very nice compliment to Donald Trump.
20:24I strongly hope you're right.
20:27But we need to be honest.
20:29Today, what we see, unfortunately,
20:34is one by one, our leader
20:37to go into the White House
20:42and not together.
20:44And personally, I think we are wrong.
20:48we need to go together.
20:51We have selected head or heads for institutions.
20:56It has been our democratic choice.
20:59Now, these heads must lead the discussion
21:03and go in the name of the 27.
21:06And yes, like always in life, there is a risk.
21:10We don't know where the coin will fall,
21:13but we need to be vocal all together, Europeans.
21:16It is our European leaders
21:19who should win the show.
21:22So, speaking about show,
21:25it's like a TV show.
21:27There is l'invité surprise.
21:32The guest who is coming,
21:35you are not expecting,
21:37you don't know what he will do,
21:39what he will say.
21:40And this l'invité surprise,
21:42as we are speaking about Donald Trump
21:46and making America great again,
21:49is André Loscruc-Pietry
21:54that will be speaking
21:55about making Europe great again.
22:02So, tell us a little bit what you want to do.
22:07They will react.
22:08So, you have 30 seconds
22:10to explain what you want.
22:12Well, I think next to the discussion
22:14on the fact that we need big leadership,
22:17I think we need to have boldness again.
22:21That's the mindset of John.
22:23Today, who has bold ideas?
22:26Unfortunately, it's the extremes.
22:28Simple ideas, but bold ideas.
22:31And so, the whole point of this cap,
22:33which was a joke that I made
22:35on the 20th of January,
22:36was to say we should not leave
22:38the monopoly of bold ideas
22:41to the extremes.
22:42The center, the progressives,
22:44should be bold again.
22:46So, I think this idea
22:48with the 28th regime is bold,
22:50but let's be frank,
22:51it's not going to appeal
22:53to 90% of our citizens.
22:55So, the point is,
22:56how do we give a voice again
22:58to all our citizens
23:01to re-enchant the idea of Europe?
23:03And I think technology and progress
23:05can be a platform.
23:07So, this started with one cap.
23:09Today, we are 25,000
23:10in all European countries.
23:12We need to show
23:14that we have, again, this ambition
23:16and don't leave that to the extreme right
23:19or to the extreme left.
23:20Okay. Do you want to react?
23:22I totally agree.
23:24I think this is the way
23:26and the moment of pride,
23:28European pride.
23:29I'm really proud
23:30to be European today.
23:33Europe is the land of freedom,
23:35respect,
23:36rule of law,
23:37and I think we have to be proud of that.
23:40And everything goes in that direction
23:42has all my heart.
23:45same thing,
23:46same thing,
23:47and I could not say more than that.
23:50We need to be proud of Europe.
23:52By the way,
23:53if there is one word
23:54which characterizes
23:56what happens
23:57since January 20th
23:59is lack of confidence.
24:02Lacking of confidence.
24:05So now,
24:06we need to rebuild confidence.
24:08And yes,
24:09let's use
24:10real Europe
24:11to build
24:12the new confidence
24:14for all of us in Europe,
24:15but also for the world.
24:17What I can say
24:18that when Thierry was
24:20the vice president
24:22of the EU commission,
24:24he has taken a lot
24:26of bold actions
24:27and he has not
24:29hesitated
24:30to stand up
24:32in front of
24:33all
24:34the big
24:36Gaffin.
24:39Elon Musk,
24:40you had a small fight.
24:41Interesting.
24:43And in order to also
24:45have some common rules.
24:48And when you look at
24:49what Enrico has done,
24:51it's quite impressive.
24:52Not only
24:53as
24:54when he was
24:56prime minister of Italy
24:58and he started to
25:00rebuild
25:00the country,
25:02but also
25:03as a professor
25:05and also
25:08in his report.
25:09So I would like
25:10that we thank you
25:11all very warmly.
25:13Thank you, André.
25:14It's a great idea
25:16and we have to move.
25:20Merci.
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