- 2 days ago
Ryan Coogler, Yorgos Lanthimos and Marielle Heller also joined in the Roundtable discussion.
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Short filmTranscript
00:00:00Welcome to Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter Directors.
00:00:08I'm Stephen Galloway and I'd like to welcome
00:00:11Yorgos Lanthimos, Ryan Coogler, Spike Lee,
00:00:16Alfonso Cuaron, Bradley Cooper and Marielle Heller.
00:00:21Thanks for being here.
00:00:23I want to plunge into the deep end.
00:00:24We're in a very political time.
00:00:26Samuel Galloway once said, if you want to send a message,
00:00:30send it Western Union.
00:00:31Agree or disagree?
00:00:34Why are you looking at me?
00:00:36Why is everybody looking at me?
00:00:38Because if you don't have an opinion on this, we're in trouble.
00:00:42Well, we live in very dangerous times.
00:00:45And artists, you know, reflect what's happened in the world
00:00:51and what they want.
00:00:53And we think about art, everybody has their own vision.
00:00:58But for me, this guy in the White House, Agent Orange,
00:01:02he's not America's brightest moments.
00:01:06He's been in the White House, I feel.
00:01:09Which doesn't strictly answer the question in the sense
00:01:11of what you're making now or developing now
00:01:13could come out years after he's gone.
00:01:15So should films be directly political?
00:01:18I will say, if you're an artist and you make the decision
00:01:21that you're not going to include colleagues in it,
00:01:24that's political decision itself.
00:01:26When you say we're not included, that's political decision.
00:01:29But I also think there's no should because films are as wide
00:01:33in variety as we are as people.
00:01:34So there have to be films that are making political choices
00:01:37and are reflecting our political feelings.
00:01:40And then there are films that are existing as purely entertainment.
00:01:43We need all of those things in order to meet all of our different moods
00:01:47as audience members, too.
00:01:48And I think we have a responsibility as artists to be reflecting the culture,
00:01:52as you say.
00:01:53But, I mean, there's no should with any of this.
00:01:56We're all just artists trying to make things that help us feel better
00:01:59in the world that we're living, our own separate existences, right?
00:02:03I mean, it's such a personal art form, and it doesn't really belong to us
00:02:09once we put it out there.
00:02:10And whether it's going to be politicized or not is really not up to us.
00:02:13So the answer really is, I mean, we all speak for ourselves,
00:02:19but the more personal we are, the more specific we are,
00:02:22the better story we can tell.
00:02:24And then it's up to the audience to decide whether they see it politically or not.
00:02:29In what way was the stories born personal for you?
00:02:31Oh, God, every way.
00:02:33Yeah, I mean, it's the only reason why I made the movie.
00:02:35I mean, the one thing I knew, I mean, I waited until I was 42.
00:02:38If I didn't have something to say, there was no reason to make the movie.
00:02:42And I just wanted to investigate relationships,
00:02:46particularly between a man and a woman in love,
00:02:48and what happens when something happens to you when you're a child,
00:02:53and whether you have the means to deal with that,
00:02:56or you have the community that can help you.
00:02:58And if that doesn't happen, how does that inform the rest of your life?
00:03:02And then also the idea of finding your voice in this world.
00:03:05I mean, it really was a great platform for me to examine a lot of different things
00:03:08that I've been thinking about cinematically for years.
00:03:11Did making it change your mind about anything?
00:03:13Oh, gosh, about everything.
00:03:16Yeah, I mean, yeah, you learn a lot.
00:03:19It definitely enabled me to have the confidence to want to do it again.
00:03:28To have an idea or, you know, a lot of ideas and vision and sort of visual tableaus
00:03:36that you can then funnel into a story and then have it be the story that you wanted to make is very gratifying.
00:03:42What about directing surprised you?
00:03:46I think I had the great luck to have been working for years as an actor with directors who have been very collaborative.
00:03:54And it felt like a seamless transition.
00:03:57I think it's because I love filmmaking.
00:03:59I love cinema.
00:04:00You know, I grew up, these movies changed my life,
00:04:03and people around this table do the right thing.
00:04:06I didn't even know how to, I couldn't even talk after I saw that movie.
00:04:09Look at Spike.
00:04:12No, but it's the truth.
00:04:13I appreciate it.
00:04:14It's the truth.
00:04:15I mean, I didn't even know what to, it's like having a child, it's like,
00:04:18oh, this is a new emotion I've never even experienced.
00:04:20That's what films have done for me.
00:04:22So to be able to be a student of it for decades, I think, allowed me the tools to be able to do it myself.
00:04:31What did you not expect?
00:04:33For it to be as joyful as it was.
00:04:36It really was joyful.
00:04:37I felt like I was in exactly the place that I wanted, was supposed to be in that moment.
00:04:41The whole time?
00:04:43Not during PrEP.
00:04:44Not during PrEP.
00:04:45Not during PrEP.
00:04:46Not during, terrified of PrEP.
00:04:47Come on.
00:04:48Well, you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel at PrEP.
00:04:49You just gotta go down into the cave every day and hope that one day you're gonna see the light.
00:04:53But once you see the light, and then the light gets bigger and bigger and bigger, then it becomes fun.
00:04:58Is directing a joyful experience for you?
00:05:02It has its days, but it's an intense experience.
00:05:09You know, it's a long process, but also it's a process in which there's so many things that can go wrong.
00:05:19But at the same time, I think that the biggest thing is that you know that whatever you do is going to be there.
00:05:29You know, it's going to be there forever.
00:05:31It's not that you're going to, okay, we change it tomorrow and the next performance.
00:05:35You know, you're cementing something.
00:05:39And then, yeah, it's intense.
00:05:41It's amazing.
00:05:44But at the same time, it's an intense process.
00:05:47When they ask me at the end of a film if I'm happy, I'm never happy.
00:05:51I'm relieved.
00:05:52You know, I think that if you ask a fox after being chased by hounds for 12 hours,
00:06:00and then he goes to a refuge and says, are you happy?
00:06:03No, the fox is relieved.
00:06:05You know, he's got away with it.
00:06:07Is it more joyful when you're doing a personal film like Roma or when you're doing a studio film like Gravity?
00:06:12It can be joyful either way.
00:06:14It's just a different approach.
00:06:17Roma, the thing, it has a different intensity that I was not expecting because I didn't know where I was walking in.
00:06:26You start asking if films should have a message or not.
00:06:30I don't think that that's not an option because even you were talking about entertainment.
00:06:37Everything that we do is going to convey a message.
00:06:41It's going to convey an ideology.
00:06:43It's going to convey a politic, no matter what, you know, one way or the other, even if you don't intend to do that.
00:06:51And doing a personal film is just that more stuff starts to come out that you are not necessarily feel comfortable about dealing with.
00:07:02Such as?
00:07:03You know, it's like the recognition of your society, of Mexico, for instance, and recognizing that the issues going on in Mexico are the same as the rest of the world.
00:07:17Or even my own relationships inside my, you know, the personal relationships at home when I was growing up.
00:07:26And this perverse relationship between race and class that pretty much I've been part of just by being part of a certain society.
00:07:39You know, so it's, and it's not comfortable to recognize those things and to just try to be blunt and honest about it.
00:07:49Was Black Panther a political film for you?
00:07:52Yeah, it was, it's about a politician, you know, so it was no way for it to not be.
00:08:01Yeah, yeah, interesting.
00:08:02Yeah, yeah, so, I mean, that was, that was, you know, how we always saw it.
00:08:06Like, it was, it's a character who's, you know, the political leader of a fictional country, and it's fictional, you know.
00:08:13But we put it on a, you know, on a real continent.
00:08:16We wanted to set it in the real world.
00:08:18And that's kind of how the character saw himself, that's how he identified himself as a politician.
00:08:22So, you know, through that, it's definitely a political film.
00:08:27You've gone from indie filmmaking to now being, you know, one of the kings of the studio system.
00:08:32One in a way.
00:08:34Like it or not, you have tiptoed in and out of the studio system.
00:08:38That's Iger, you're getting them mixed up.
00:08:40Oh, man.
00:08:42Very well.
00:08:44What, which do you prefer and why?
00:08:46Spike, would you go back into a studio film?
00:08:51Focus the studio.
00:08:53Okay, it's an indie label, isn't it?
00:08:56What is indie now?
00:08:58Hmm?
00:08:59What is indie?
00:09:00Yeah.
00:09:01What is indie?
00:09:02Where they get the money, we can go.
00:09:03So, you know, I got, as I told this person the other day, I got one Jordan, the independent
00:09:09film, and the other Jordan in the steel system.
00:09:14So, gotta go where you get the money is.
00:09:16Yorgos, you've come from Greece.
00:09:18How do you feel about making a studio film?
00:09:21And have you been in talks about doing any big studio films?
00:09:25To be honest, it wasn't very different for me, and I, again, it's that kind of differentiation,
00:09:32what is a studio film and what isn't.
00:09:34So long as I have the creative freedom that I need for each film, as Pike says, you know,
00:09:41whoever, you know, believes in the project and is willing to back you up, you know, it's
00:09:48a great opportunity to keep working.
00:09:51So, I really don't see it like that.
00:09:53I see, you know, the stories that interest me, the next film that I want to do, how I
00:09:57want to do it differently, or the things that I want to develop further.
00:10:03So, it's all about that, and then you find the appropriate people to support you and back
00:10:09you up.
00:10:10What was the biggest challenge for you in making the favorite?
00:10:13Well, the fact that it was a period film complicates things, I think, and it makes it more
00:10:20expensive.
00:10:21It was the most expensive film to date.
00:10:23But what I find challenging ever since I started making English language films is that, although,
00:10:30of course, I do have more means than when I used to make films in Greece, at the same time,
00:10:36they come with a lot of more rules and restrictions.
00:10:40And I'm always struggling to find the way of doing things in a different way, doing things
00:10:50the way that they fit the film that I'm making at the time, and not just because there's a
00:10:56system that works in a particular way to adapt to that, to adapt the creative part to the machine.
00:11:05So, it's been a struggle to find those ways.
00:11:11Yeah, it's difficult because it is an industry.
00:11:14It is structured in a certain way, and improvise and be flexible within that seems to be quite
00:11:24difficult.
00:11:25Have you ever thought of relocating and living in Los Angeles, or have you deliberately kept
00:11:30a distance?
00:11:31I mean, I've moved to London anyway, so I don't live in Greece anymore.
00:11:37So, I guess it's kind of similar.
00:11:40I thought that I would move there.
00:11:42I needed to be there to start making English language films, but it proved that I ended up
00:11:47filming all around the world except England, and only the last film I shot there.
00:11:53So, it's basically, it's a base.
00:11:56You know, I guess we all travel a lot all the time, and whether you have to film somewhere,
00:12:01or promote your film, or...
00:12:04So, I think, I find where you live, at this point, I see it as where you feel comfortable,
00:12:10where does it make sense for you to move around.
00:12:14It's more about that than being near an industry, or...
00:12:19When you're dealing with a big studio on what's clearly designed to be a franchise, how different
00:12:25is it?
00:12:26What kind of restrictions do they put on you?
00:12:28Restrictions?
00:12:29Yeah.
00:12:30I think that the biggest difference actually wasn't in the restrictions.
00:12:38It was actually in the lack of restrictions.
00:12:41Oh, yeah.
00:12:42That's actually the bigger difference.
00:12:45You know, like I was making my first film, and I think we all, like Deception of Bradley,
00:12:50who spent a lot of time on a lot of different types of sets as an actor.
00:12:53I think we all started relatively small.
00:12:56I feel like I've seen all of y'all first movies.
00:12:59They were pretty small, and when you're dealing with not a lot of money, you got a lot of
00:13:06limitations, and it helps you actually move faster, because you can't do just anything.
00:13:09You know what I mean?
00:13:10It's only maybe sometimes one place you can put the camera.
00:13:12You can only be in this location for two hours, and then you gotta go.
00:13:15So, it makes it a little simpler, which in effect makes it easier when you can do anything.
00:13:22You know what I mean?
00:13:23That's kind of what happens with a film like this.
00:13:26That's what I found made it a lot harder.
00:13:28Now more than ever, the illusions of the vision threaten our very existence.
00:13:36We all know the truth.
00:13:38More connects us than separates us.
00:13:41But in times of crisis, the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers.
00:13:50We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.
00:13:59And you're just dealing with so many more people.
00:14:01You got to get comfortable directing in a room full of 75, 100 people sometimes.
00:14:07And a lot of times, I find directing can make you feel like you're naked.
00:14:10You know what I mean?
00:14:11So, directing on a 10-person crew is like being naked in front of 10 people.
00:14:15But with 200 people, you know what I mean?
00:14:18It's a different-
00:14:19Do you all feel that vulnerability?
00:14:20That's all the way butt naked, right?
00:14:21All the way butt naked, yeah.
00:14:22Even after many films, Spike, you still feel that way?
00:14:28It really depends on the budget.
00:14:30So, you know, I like the word.
00:14:32You say you have to be flexible and adapt.
00:14:34You know, you gotta do what you gotta do to get it made.
00:14:37Mario, you came into a film that was meant to have another star, Julianne Moore.
00:14:41What happened between her leaving and you coming in?
00:14:45All of that happened before I had anything to do with the movie.
00:14:48So, I came into a movie that had-
00:14:51You know, movies are like a miracle when they actually come together.
00:14:54They fall apart a million times.
00:14:56You can say that again.
00:14:57Yeah.
00:14:58This particular movie had a different incarnation, which I wasn't a part of, which fell apart.
00:15:03And Melissa McCarthy and I sort of made a pact when we came on board.
00:15:07Like, let's never talk about whatever happened before.
00:15:10Because clearly, something happened.
00:15:12There's a reason it fell apart.
00:15:14We want to move forward with good feelings.
00:15:17We want to feel like we get to start fresh.
00:15:19So that was kind of where we came to the table.
00:15:22With like, we love this story.
00:15:23We loved this character.
00:15:24She was a character whose voice we felt like we didn't get to hear in movies very often.
00:15:29And it felt really important that we tell her story.
00:15:33So we were like, whatever happened before, gone.
00:15:36And how much did you feel compelled to follow the truth?
00:15:39She wrote a book about her experiences.
00:15:41How much did you feel you could fictionalize it?
00:15:43It's always a tricky thing because you want to be true to the essence of the person entirely.
00:15:48And you want to feel like if their loved ones saw the thing you're making, they would recognize that person within the movie.
00:15:55But you also have to be truthful to the narrative that you're telling.
00:15:59And you have to find a way to make a compelling movie.
00:16:01So it's always a real balancing act between those things.
00:16:06And you keep a secret.
00:16:07I don't know what to tell. All my friends are dead.
00:16:12Quite by accident, I find myself in a rather criminal position.
00:16:18In this scenario, she's no longer alive.
00:16:33She has no living relatives that we knew of.
00:16:35So there was more of a sense of wanting to do right by her.
00:16:40And kind of getting, you know, she was a really prickly, difficult person.
00:16:46And we wanted to get that right.
00:16:47And we didn't want to soften her.
00:16:48And we felt like she would almost be the most offended if we tried to make her really likable or something.
00:16:53Is her cat still alive?
00:16:55No.
00:16:56The baby cat.
00:16:57That was an addition.
00:16:59Oh, it was? She never got a new cat?
00:17:01I think she did.
00:17:02But, yeah, things like that.
00:17:04You know, these are narrative devices we have to bring in.
00:17:06And let our audience feel a little bit better at the end of the day.
00:17:10You stepped in when Clint Eastwood left that project.
00:17:13Did you talk to him about it?
00:17:14Oh, yeah.
00:17:15In fact, I pitched it to him.
00:17:18We had shot him.
00:17:19He had talked to me about doing it before we had ever done American Sniper, a film we did together.
00:17:24And then once we had gone through that process, we were somewhere.
00:17:27And Annie Lennox was on the television singing, I Put a Spell on You.
00:17:31And I was looking at the veins in her neck.
00:17:33And I kept thinking about the movie, but I thought I was too young to play that character back when he asked me to do it.
00:17:38And I said, Clint, maybe we should, there's something there.
00:17:41But he had, at that point, it passed him.
00:17:43So he said no.
00:17:44What happened with Beyonce?
00:17:46Yeah.
00:17:47It just didn't work out.
00:17:48Oh.
00:17:49Yeah.
00:17:50Because?
00:17:51Oh, God, many reasons.
00:17:52Yeah.
00:17:53Namely?
00:17:54Oh, I mean, like you said, it's hard to get a movie.
00:17:56You know, it's like things fall apart and they come back.
00:17:58But yeah, so then I had a dream, I actually had a dream that night.
00:18:03I know it sounds crazy.
00:18:04And I saw the beginning of the movie and then I went to Warner Brothers the next day and I said,
00:18:07I know this is crazy, but I want to make this low budget idea of stars born and here's what it is.
00:18:11And they said, okay, you know, take a shot at writing it.
00:18:15Do you write songs or anything?
00:18:18I don't sing my own songs.
00:18:23Why?
00:18:24Um, well, because like almost every single person that I've come in contact with in the music industry has told me that my nose is too big and that I won't make it.
00:18:33Your nose is too big?
00:18:35Yeah.
00:18:36Your nose is beautiful.
00:18:38Can I touch your nose?
00:18:40Oh, my gosh.
00:18:41Let me just touch it for a second.
00:18:43Have any of you made a film that you don't consider personal?
00:18:48I made films that I don't like, but...
00:18:51When you made great expectations, you felt that it wasn't...
00:18:57No, it's a film that probably did for the wrong reasons, but at the end you try to...
00:19:02The only approach that you can have is from the standpoint of who you are.
00:19:08You know, it's...
00:19:10What were the wrong reasons?
00:19:13In one word?
00:19:15Hollywood?
00:19:16Mm-hmm.
00:19:17That's a big reason.
00:19:19Yeah.
00:19:20Yeah, it was...
00:19:21What do you mean Hollywood?
00:19:22I mean, the cliché of Hollywood in the sense of...
00:19:27You know...
00:19:29To the matter also, I was running out of money.
00:19:33Mm-hmm.
00:19:34It was...
00:19:35Yeah.
00:19:36You know, it was...
00:19:37And I was considering projects.
00:19:38Mm-hmm.
00:19:39And then there was a charming producer.
00:19:44And, you know, the idea of De Niro.
00:19:49And then I said, yes, why not?
00:19:51You know, it's...
00:19:52But I didn't really...
00:19:55I never had the grip on the material.
00:19:58I tell you something.
00:19:59I'm sure that with the same screenplay, someone else could have done something good.
00:20:04Mm-hmm.
00:20:05You know, it was just...
00:20:06I didn't...
00:20:07I didn't know how...
00:20:08I was trying to overcompensate with other resources that I could bring.
00:20:13Mm-hmm.
00:20:14But it was not really something that I felt organic.
00:20:17Mm-hmm.
00:20:18And also, part of the reason that what happened is my early years in Hollywood, because I arrived
00:20:25by mistake, or not by mistake, but by chance, and I forgot that I was a writer.
00:20:33Mm-hmm.
00:20:34You know, and I have a lot of people around telling me, you know what, is just read scripts,
00:20:40because if you introduce yourself as a writer, director, your options are going to be narrow.
00:20:45And I followed that lead for a little bit, and I forgot that I was a writer.
00:20:52Mm-hmm.
00:20:53And then what happened is I was just at the mercy of the projects that were around,
00:21:00and also not really exploring what I wanted to say.
00:21:04Do you all think of yourselves as writer-directors, or is it possible to direct somebody else's script
00:21:10without radically changing it?
00:21:13I do both, yes.
00:21:14Huh.
00:21:15Whatever the, whatever story we want to tell.
00:21:18So if it's, I didn't write it, it's a great script.
00:21:20I mean, I'm not going to let that stop me from doing it.
00:21:22An example, 25th Hour, written by David Benioff.
00:21:25Mm-hmm.
00:21:26You know, it was a great script, and I wanted, and Edward Nore and I wanted to work together,
00:21:30so we said, let's do it.
00:21:32Did you fight?
00:21:33Sorry.
00:21:34Sorry, go ahead.
00:21:35I was just going to ask, even if it's a really good script, don't you find that you have
00:21:38to do certain things in order to...
00:21:40Oh, yeah.
00:21:41For example, when David Benioff wrote that book, it was before 9-11.
00:21:46Mm-hmm.
00:21:47So I said, we're making this take post-9-11.
00:21:51Right.
00:21:52That book was written before 9-11.
00:21:54That's one of the most.
00:21:56With a favorite.
00:21:57The first one that you do that you didn't write, right?
00:22:00Yeah, yeah, but I was very closely involved for many years in the writing of it and finding
00:22:07the writer that we rewrote the original screenplay that existed, so I feel like I've put in more
00:22:15time than I've put in the films that I co-written, so in the end it became...that's why I'm wondering,
00:22:21like, even if it's good and if it's by someone else, you still need to shape it in many different
00:22:26ways so that it becomes your...
00:22:28I think that's totally true.
00:22:29That's totally true.
00:22:30I don't know how to do the process if I don't at least, like, put some of it through my fingers,
00:22:34even if it's really in great shape, because the script I just worked on was in such great
00:22:37shape and the writers were so good and had been working on it for eight years, but I
00:22:41still had to...I still had to make parts of it mine and just to know it inside and out
00:22:46the way you have to to direct something, like, it's so much harder to do if you haven't written
00:22:51it.
00:22:52It's like you have to put yourself inside the characters in some way and it's so hard to do if
00:22:56you have...
00:22:57Was Tom Hanks attached to the project?
00:22:58No.
00:22:59I brought it to him.
00:23:00Really?
00:23:01Yeah.
00:23:02Tell us that story.
00:23:03Okay.
00:23:04It's actually kind of a funny story.
00:23:05I wonder how he'll feel if I told it.
00:23:07I'm very happy.
00:23:08I wanted to know that too, so...
00:23:12I'm friends with Tom Hanks' son, Colin, and I was at Colin's kid's birthday party, and
00:23:18I was talking to Tom, and he was talking about this New York Times article about women directors,
00:23:24and I was like, yeah, I'm in that.
00:23:26And he was like, wait, what?
00:23:28Are you?
00:23:29I just mentioned who I was, and then he went and watched my movie, and then we had a meeting,
00:23:34and when the writers and everybody from the Mr. Rogers movie brought me the script and I
00:23:41got involved, they all kind of said, our dream cast has always been Tom Hanks, but we're pretty
00:23:47sure he doesn't really want to play real people anymore.
00:23:50He's played Walt Disney, he's played Sully, like he's kind of done this, and we're hearing
00:23:54from his reps, he's probably not open.
00:23:57And I was like, I don't know, I kind of have a relationship with him, I'll send it to him.
00:24:00And like a week later, he signed on, and everyone was like, how did you do that?
00:24:04I was like, I don't know.
00:24:05I don't know.
00:24:06Do you take things to directors that you've developed as an actor?
00:24:25Oh yeah, I mean, American Sniper was a book that I asked if Warner Brothers would acquire,
00:24:33and I went to Steven Spielberg, who was going to do it for a while, and then he dropped
00:24:36down in Clint Eastwood.
00:24:37Why did Steven drop out?
00:24:38You have to ask him.
00:24:39Okay.
00:24:40Yeah.
00:24:41Were you tempted to jump in?
00:24:42Smart answer.
00:24:44Were you tempted to jump in at that point in Direx?
00:24:46No, that's true.
00:24:47What's that?
00:24:48Were you tempted to jump in in Direx Sniper?
00:24:49Oh, it's so funny to say that.
00:24:50I just was too scared.
00:24:52Oh.
00:24:53But I did have a point of view, yeah.
00:24:54What do you mean you were too scared?
00:24:55I just wasn't ready.
00:24:56It's the one benefit I think I have had to wait so long, is that the older you get, the more,
00:25:01I don't know what you all think, but you tend to sort of know when you're ready for something.
00:25:05What made you know you were ready now?
00:25:07Oh, because I knew if I waited anymore it was going to get too long.
00:25:10Yeah, I think just, you know, mortality, yeah, it was just, I just knew it, yeah.
00:25:16I thought, you know what it is, it's not that I knew it, I knew that if I don't do it, I'd rather
00:25:21fail at it having tried than not ever do it.
00:25:23That's basically the point that I got to.
00:25:25But American Sniper was the first movie that I felt like I had a point of view to direct.
00:25:30But back to the writer thing, if I have to ask the writer what they meant by this, I'm screwed.
00:25:35Like I really, I'm not a good enough director to be able to direct somebody else's writing right now.
00:25:39Hopefully someday if I keep getting to direct.
00:25:41I sort of liken it to acting.
00:25:43I spent like a decade just trying to be myself and talk to you and breathe and like be present.
00:25:48And it wasn't until I found like after maybe 12 years I thought, okay, I can do that.
00:25:51Now I can play different human beings, like completely different human beings.
00:25:55And it kind of feels like if I'm lucky enough as a director, maybe I can have some piece
00:26:00of content and then be able to have a point of view about it.
00:26:03But right now it has to come from here.
00:26:05You're both actors.
00:26:07What is said that's similar between one job and the other?
00:26:12I think for me, you know, Ryan and I met because we did the Sundance labs together.
00:26:17And I went through the Sundance director's lab and I felt when I was there like I was this
00:26:22rookie kind of, I was the only person who didn't go to film school and I felt like I came in
00:26:27through the side door kind of because I had been a theater actor and like a writer.
00:26:31And I just felt like there were all of these things I didn't know.
00:26:34I didn't know about lenses was my big thing that hung me up.
00:26:37I was like, I got to learn about lenses if I'm going to direct a movie.
00:26:40And then I started to realize what a benefit I had of that I understood the language that
00:26:46actors speak.
00:26:47And that even though there were a lot of things I had to learn and I'm still learning,
00:26:51obviously, I felt like, oh, I have this big benefit going into being a director that I
00:26:56didn't realize was going to be a huge benefit, which is I'm not afraid of actors.
00:27:01A lot of directors are afraid of actors.
00:27:03That's a secret.
00:27:04Maybe I shouldn't let our secrets out.
00:27:05Well, you know, that's a very important point.
00:27:10Because as a coming out of grad film NYU, you know, we know how to do the technical
00:27:18stuff.
00:27:19Right.
00:27:20Actors like I didn't, I didn't feel comfortable working with actors to my third
00:27:23film was do the right thing.
00:27:24Wow.
00:27:25She's got to have it school days.
00:27:26I mean, in school days, Lawrence Fishburne was giving me direct.
00:27:30He was trying to say, Spike, come here for a second.
00:27:32And I'm glad he did it.
00:27:33Right.
00:27:34Because I had not had the language.
00:27:35Right.
00:27:36So it took me three films.
00:27:37And that's something that in film school, camera lens, this, that, that, but actors
00:27:43were like, I don't know how to speak to them.
00:27:45Right.
00:27:46And what you said, I was afraid of actors.
00:27:47And I was talking to all of these other directors who were coming up at the same time
00:27:50as we were.
00:27:51And I was realizing that's what they were all saying.
00:27:53They were like, oh, I could talk technical all you want to talk.
00:27:55I can figure out exactly my camera blocking, but I don't, I don't know how to get this
00:28:00performance out of this actor.
00:28:01And I was like, oh, that's the part I feel comfortable with.
00:28:04And realizing that the other stuff I could learn, it just made me realize that I had this
00:28:11huge benefit and that in some weird way, all of the skills I'd been learning through
00:28:15my life as a writer and an actor were going to benefit me as a director in ways I hadn't
00:28:20even been able to anticipate.
00:28:21And also in film school, actors are working for free.
00:28:25So once they get a day in, they know they got you.
00:28:28Because they could just walk and you don't have the money to go back and shoot.
00:28:32So you really, in film school, you're just at the mercy of the actors and they would
00:28:36just take advantage of.
00:28:38But I think there's something of recognizing what you're actually asking them to do too.
00:28:42Because asking an actor to inhabit a person, to breathe like them, to walk in their shoes,
00:28:47but to actually do that.
00:28:48And in the same way that you're saying it's so vulnerable to direct in front of a huge
00:28:52crew of people all looking at you, we're also asking them to be their most vulnerable self.
00:28:57That's true.
00:28:58With all these cameras and all these lights and all these people.
00:29:00And so if you can empathize with what they're actually experiencing and what we're asking
00:29:04of them, you can ask them to go further.
00:29:06You can ask them to do more if you know what you're asking of them.
00:29:10But you've got to acquire the language.
00:29:12You do.
00:29:13You have to have the language to speak to the actors.
00:29:15In the same way that you have to have the language to speak to your DP about lenses,
00:29:18you have to have the language to speak to the actors.
00:29:20I know, but you get more training.
00:29:22You're right.
00:29:23The actors just leave you alone, but you have, you know.
00:29:26You went there, see?
00:29:27What did you do over there?
00:29:28I think all four of you went to film school, didn't you?
00:29:30What did film school fail to teach you, Yorgos?
00:29:33And you went in Greece.
00:29:35Yes.
00:29:36That's a bit of a problem.
00:29:38Oh.
00:29:39There isn't such a great educational facility for filmmaking in Greece.
00:29:46And there hasn't been an industry for many years.
00:29:50It's like individual efforts here and there.
00:29:54So that's a bit of a problem.
00:29:56I kind of learned the technical stuff by reading American Cinematographer, like going to the
00:30:01newsstand and waiting for when it would come to Greece and, you know.
00:30:06And I was fortunate enough that I started early on to direct commercials.
00:30:11And I experimented a lot and learned a lot technically.
00:30:16But on the actors' side of things, I was also fortunate enough, although I never intended,
00:30:21to direct theater, to do plays in the theater in Greece.
00:30:25So that enabled me to figure out how I could work with actors and how to get where I wanted
00:30:34to get.
00:30:35Ryan, what did film school teach you best and fail to teach you?
00:30:39The biggest thing that I walked away with from film school was just a lot of my colleagues.
00:30:45You know, like I met the composer that's done all of my films at film school.
00:30:50One of my editors who's worked with me the whole time.
00:30:53A lot of my, you know, a lot of my producing collaborators I met there.
00:30:56So that was really, the community was the most valuable thing that it gave us.
00:31:01I mean, I think that, and just the opportunity to do it.
00:31:07You know what I mean?
00:31:08Like I'm from a place where it just wasn't really something that people did.
00:31:11You know, from the Bay Area, same place as Maury, same place as Tom Hanks.
00:31:15Crazy enough, you know.
00:31:16That's true.
00:31:17Yeah, yeah.
00:31:18But, you know, I spent most of my life playing football and going to school and thinking
00:31:23I was going to do that, you know.
00:31:24Did you make it in the NFL?
00:31:26That's what we thought.
00:31:27Until you got older and it was like, until I had to tackle Marshawn, you know what I'm
00:31:31saying?
00:31:32Then it was a reality check.
00:31:33Right.
00:31:34But no, but I mean like once I realized that it was maybe an option, you know, you just
00:31:37needed time to do it.
00:31:38You know, that's what it also gave.
00:31:40It was just hours, you know what I mean?
00:31:42Like standing on set, like learning what it is, you know.
00:31:46Just knowing someone who does it too.
00:31:48Yeah.
00:31:49Because I don't think I grew up ever knowing anybody who was a filmmaker.
00:31:52You know, I knew people who were doing theater.
00:31:54Right.
00:31:55But I didn't know anybody.
00:31:56What does it even look like?
00:31:58Yeah, and what you don't know, you're afraid of.
00:32:00You know what I mean?
00:32:01So I found it to be that.
00:32:04I mean in terms of, you know, I can't say what it failed to teach me.
00:32:08I think you get out of it, you know, what you bring to it inherently and circumstantially,
00:32:13you know what I mean?
00:32:15I was fortunate enough to come out of school and make my first movie pretty quickly.
00:32:20And it was through a connection that I made in school that I was able to pitch it, you
00:32:25know.
00:32:26So I got nothing bad to say about the process, you know.
00:32:29It was expensive.
00:32:31Yeah.
00:32:32Yeah.
00:32:33Is there one person who's really taught you something about film or really shaped you,
00:32:37whether a filmmaker that you particularly admire or somebody like David O. Russell or
00:32:41Clint that you've worked with, who has taught you the most, the thing that you tell yourselves?
00:32:46Before I went to film school, I had a teacher.
00:32:50His name was Dr. Herb Eichelberger, and he encouraged me to be a filmmaker.
00:32:58And also to further my education.
00:33:00So I went to NYU.
00:33:01I'm the generation, I'm 61 years old.
00:33:03So my generation, we went to film school because we wanted to get the equipment.
00:33:05So Jim Jarmusch is two years ahead of me.
00:33:07My class, Ernest Dickerson and Ang Lee.
00:33:08Oh wow.
00:33:09The class, class 1982, NYU grad film school.
00:33:10So all we wanted was equipment.
00:33:11We didn't really care what the teacher was saying.
00:33:12They're like, uh-uh.
00:33:13We just want the equipment to make our film.
00:33:15NYU, we don't want to have the facility at USC.
00:33:17We didn't really care what the teachers were saying.
00:33:18film school because we wanted to get the equipment.
00:33:21So Jim Jarmusch is two years ahead of me.
00:33:23My class, Ernest Dickerson and Ang Lee.
00:33:26The class, class 1982, NYU grad film school.
00:33:29So all we wanted was equipment.
00:33:32We didn't really care what the teacher was saying.
00:33:34They're like, uh-uh.
00:33:36We just want the equipment to make our film.
00:33:40NYU, we don't want to have the facility at USC.
00:33:42That's because we don't make those big budget,
00:33:45cemented-
00:33:45But you walk outside and you're in New York.
00:33:54You walk outside and you're in New York.
00:33:56Point the camera in any direction.
00:33:57I'm just saying, we just forgot the facilities you guys got.
00:34:00I went to the SC practice the other day, a football team.
00:34:04What about you, Alfonso?
00:34:05Who's taught you?
00:34:06I hear the discussion between USC and who teach you,
00:34:09and you teach you is like Gucci versus Prada.
00:34:11It's like amazing.
00:34:15I would just say this, if you want to make big budgets,
00:34:19Howard films, you're going to go with SC.
00:34:22It's not true.
00:34:23Look at alumni.
00:34:24I don't know, I have feelings about NYU films too.
00:34:26Who about to make James Bond right now?
00:34:30There's money.
00:34:31There's money.
00:34:32You're speaking to artistic director of the graduate film school.
00:34:35And a 10 professor.
00:34:36Look, I'm jealous of it.
00:34:38Clearly, partially, part of it's coming from my feelings of inadequacy that we all have.
00:34:42I'm jealous of people who get to go through NYU film, but I feel like they are dominating as well in the industry.
00:34:48Doing great.
00:34:49Coming with a lot of privilege.
00:34:51Yeah, like Chloe about to make Eternals, Carrie about to do James Bond.
00:34:55Exactly.
00:34:56You can't talk like that.
00:34:57Yeah, that's right.
00:34:58Carrie doing James Bond.
00:34:59That's one guy.
00:35:00That's one guy.
00:35:01That's one guy.
00:35:02Chloe Zhao's about to do, yeah, Eternals for Marvel.
00:35:05Yep.
00:35:06You didn't have the same school in Mexico, right?
00:35:09I went to film school.
00:35:10I know.
00:35:11But similar film school in Mexico, in the sense of American cinematographer, but I have to say, I had a teacher there.
00:35:19His name was Jorge Ayala Blanco.
00:35:21He is.
00:35:22He still teaches.
00:35:24And it was not about...
00:35:27I have a couple of very good teachers that they care about teaching about cameras and stuff.
00:35:33I mean, it was a school.
00:35:35And when I was going to that school, it was a mess.
00:35:38There were no classes and stuff.
00:35:40But this teacher, Jorge Ayala Blanco, teach an amazing course, two or three different courses of film history.
00:35:48And that was even more important than all the other technical stuff.
00:35:54Which films?
00:35:55Oh, okay.
00:35:56The first year was just film history from the beginning of cinema.
00:36:01And then the other one was an exploration of different schools in cinema.
00:36:06And the ones that create transformations, you know, like the Neuval Vogue, the Expressionism, or the German cinema in the 70s.
00:36:17Or the American cinema of the 70s, you know.
00:36:22So it was very specific about certain tendencies and...
00:36:27Who taught you the most, Bradley?
00:36:29Oh, gosh.
00:36:30I mean, it's funny you say that.
00:36:32I remember, and I went to college and there was no film class, theater class, but I didn't have...
00:36:36Where'd you go?
00:36:37I went to Georgetown.
00:36:38The Hoyas!
00:36:39Yeah.
00:36:40But there was one film class, and it was great.
00:36:41And I got to see movies.
00:36:42Because I thought I was a movie buff, but like Max Ophel's La Ronde and Mouchette and all these great movies.
00:36:46And The Conversation, which I had never seen.
00:36:48And we had a projected, too, which was great.
00:36:50And that was wonderful.
00:36:52But thinking about, like, people, it actually was Robert De Niro.
00:36:56I had tried to get him to do this movie Limitless and combined two characters.
00:37:00And that was the first, I guess, first time trying to cast a movie, even though I wasn't the director.
00:37:04And I went to see him in his hotel room and I was pitching him the whole thing.
00:37:07And then he wound up saying yes, which blew my mind, because he was my hero, you know, growing up.
00:37:11And after we had shot that movie, he did say that he thought I should direct a movie.
00:37:16And we were going to direct this movie for years.
00:37:19So he was one of the first people, and that was a long time ago, who saw something in me that he thought that maybe I could do that.
00:37:26And that obviously gave me a lot of confidence.
00:37:28What's the biggest lesson that...
00:37:30But David O'Russell, of course, obviously.
00:37:32And what?
00:37:33Well, just because, honestly, I think it's what you said.
00:37:37It's what you get out of it.
00:37:39You get out of it what you put into it.
00:37:41And, you know, when I was cast in this TV show called Alias in 2000, I moved to L.A.
00:37:45And I was so depressed because I was like, well, L.A., I hated it.
00:37:48So I just spent all my time on the television set.
00:37:50And it was J.J. Abrams.
00:37:51And I would spend all the time I wasn't on set in the editing room.
00:37:55And Ken Olin was the director of a lot of episodes.
00:37:57I would shadow him.
00:37:58I would ask for everybody's dailies.
00:37:59They were on VHS tapes back then.
00:38:01And I'd watch them all.
00:38:02Because I was just, I was interested.
00:38:04And I think it's just that curiosity over the years, when there are people that are willing to do that.
00:38:08When there are people that are willing to then share with you, like David O. Russell, who said, yeah, let me come in, come into my world.
00:38:13And I'm going to let you experience it.
00:38:15And Clint Eastwood.
00:38:16And Todd Phillips.
00:38:17You know, I've been very lucky.
00:38:18And Derek C in France and Place Beyond the Pines.
00:38:20You know, I've been very lucky to have, and Suzanne Beer and Serena.
00:38:24I was editing with her in Denmark of that movie.
00:38:27So she, you know, I've been really able to have directors who were very collaborative.
00:38:31And I think that's the reason.
00:38:32Have you had a director who wasn't collaborative that you disagreed with?
00:38:36And did you learn anything from that experience?
00:38:38Oh, yeah.
00:38:39Absolutely.
00:38:40Either name the person or tell us what happened, but what did you learn from it?
00:38:45I think what I've learned is that I'm lucky enough to be here is that I finally said, like, enough with, like, trying to get your point across.
00:38:53Just do it yourself.
00:38:54And take the heat if it's not the right choice.
00:38:56It's like, you know, it's a wonderful relationship, the actor with the director.
00:39:01But it's also a wonderful relationship, the director with the content.
00:39:05You know, and it's, that was very, this has been a very liberating experience.
00:39:09I feel like I've gone through that enough, and now it's time to just, you know, put my money where my mouth is, basically.
00:39:14Just do it and take the hit if I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.
00:39:16Because you kind of feel like, as an actor, you were trying to have that relationship with the content before.
00:39:21I definitely knew early on that I felt like I was a bit different from other actors in that I was just absolutely, totally,
00:39:30infatuated with filmmaking in the process.
00:39:33I feel like I had.
00:39:34So I was always watching, and that was much more interesting to me than the acting.
00:39:37Right.
00:39:38I feel like I had a similar moment where someone said to me, like, you know, you're not just an actor.
00:39:41When I was in a play, a new play that this guy David Edgar wrote, and I was so much more fascinated with his rewrites
00:39:49and how the play was changing and, like, working out story things with him, and he was like, and nobody else was interested in that.
00:39:56And he was like, you know, you're not just an actor, right?
00:39:58When I was, like, 23.
00:39:59Yeah, exactly.
00:40:00I was like, you're going to write.
00:40:01Like, the first day he would say that to me on Hangover, JP Wetzel, and the prop master would say, you know, you're going to direct.
00:40:05You know, so that makes you feel good.
00:40:07I love things in every part of the process, and I suffer in every part of the process.
00:40:28So it's those little things, you know, when you're thinking of an idea, and you think, you know, it's difficult, and you're trying, and then, you know, it feels like you've found something in that moment,
00:40:43and then, you know, you start the writing process, and it's really difficult, and it takes a lot of work and focus, and it doesn't always work, and, but then, you know, you start reading something that, you know, you start feeling excited about making it, and then, you know, you're going to be soon confident to put it in production.
00:41:03What was the toughest thing for you about The Favourite? Was there one moment that was really, what things went wrong, or?
00:41:09Uh, no, it was just the constant part of it, you know, trying to get everything, like Alfonso said before, you know, you're filming something, you're doing the scene, you know, you're probably never going to come back and do something differently, and it's going to stay there forever.
00:41:26Abigail.
00:41:27Abigail.
00:41:28If you forget to load the pellet, the gun fires, makes a sound, but releases no shot.
00:41:35It is a great jape, do you agree?
00:41:38Yes.
00:41:39Maybe we will think of a use for it one day.
00:41:43Sometimes it is hard to remember whether you have loaded the pellet or not.
00:41:47I do fear confusion and accidents.
00:41:50The worst is when you have a nagging feeling that something's wrong, but you can't figure out what it is, and you're sitting there going,
00:41:56this is my chance, I have to fix it right now, but I can't actually, and then you have a moment where you go, oh, I got it, I got it, this is the problem, and fix it.
00:42:06Or if you don't.
00:42:07The problem is when it comes the next day.
00:42:08The next day, and then you're so upset.
00:42:09This is what I should have done.
00:42:10I know, or a year later.
00:42:12Do you have a touchstone film you like to go back to and watch again?
00:42:15For instance, I think Bob Zemeckis told me once that he always watches The Godfather before he starts shooting.
00:42:22For me, it's a film called A Prophet.
00:42:25Oh, yeah.
00:42:26That's the one for me.
00:42:28Why?
00:42:29Oh, I just love the way it made me feel.
00:42:34The first time I saw it, and I find that when it gets tough, when I'm in the horror part, I'm not seeing my wife, I'm not seeing my family, I'm away from the Bay Area, it's put me in a bad mood.
00:42:50I put that in, and it's like a reminder of what a movie can be.
00:42:54You know what I mean?
00:42:55So it's like, oh, yeah, that's why I'm doing this.
00:42:57I got a shot at maybe making somebody feel like that.
00:43:00You know what I mean?
00:43:01I watch this Brooklyn Gentleman's movie, Do the Right Thing, quite a bit, too.
00:43:10Sometimes you got to remind yourself why you doing it, what the medium is capable of.
00:43:17You know what I mean?
00:43:20And that'll give me a little bit of gas to keep, you know, a little bit of gas to keep going.
00:43:24Yogos, is that Barry Lyndon for you?
00:43:27No, although I've seen it many times, and especially this time around, I tried to avoid watching it, because it was, you know, the comparison would be inevitable, so I just said, like, let's just not even touch that.
00:43:40But I always, I find myself always watching a Miklos Yancho film, The Red and the White, or something like that.
00:43:49Again, it's exactly the same to, just to be inspired by what people have achieved, and just try and do something.
00:43:58The films I watch are the films that are going to inform me of the film I'm about to do.
00:44:03Mm-hmm.
00:44:04Research.
00:44:05So, you know, the great Matty Labateek for Inside Man, you know, we watch Dog Afternoon.
00:44:12You know, we watch a lot of heist films.
00:44:13So, it's the, you know, in the end for this new one, Black Landsman with a young, bright, DP Chase Irvine.
00:44:23We looked at, you know, we shot at some films.
00:44:26I wanted the films to look like that I saw growing up.
00:44:30So, we looked at French Connection.
00:44:32Oh.
00:44:33You know, we looked a lot of, you know, we wanted, we did not want to shoot this digitally.
00:44:37You know, we wanted film, Kodak.
00:44:39And so, we watched those films of the 70s.
00:44:43What was the toughest challenge about making that film, Black Landsman?
00:44:48It really wasn't tough.
00:44:49The only thing we had to do, my long-time editor, Barry Brown, you know, we just had the right tone.
00:44:55We had to balance it, because there's, I don't like the usual word comedy, but there's humor in it,
00:45:01which comes from the premise of the film, which is Black Man infiltrates Ku Klux Klan.
00:45:07Mm-hmm.
00:45:08Yeah.
00:45:09So, the absurdity, that's where the humor comes from, from the premise.
00:45:13And so, we just had to, you know, in the editing room, get the right balance.
00:45:17How do you propose to make this investigation?
00:45:19Well, I've established contact and created some familiarity with the Klansman over the phone.
00:45:24I'll continue in that role, but we'll need another officer, surprise, surprise, a white officer, to play me when they meet face-to-face.
00:45:31That's my point exactly.
00:45:32Chief, Black Ron Stallworth over the phone, White Ron Stallworth face-to-face.
00:45:36So, that becomes a combined Ron Stallworth.
00:45:39Can you do that?
00:45:40I believe we can with the right white man.
00:45:42We can do anything.
00:45:43I mean, it's not the first film in the history cinema that's just had a very strict subject matter with humor.
00:45:49My go-to is Dr. Strangelove with Kubrick.
00:45:55You know, there's no fighting in the war room and, you know, what Peter Sellers does and that, you know, but it's still about, you know, the possible extinction of humankind to a nuclear holocaust.
00:46:06So, that, again, it's balancing, trying to find the right balance.
00:46:11Was there any conflicts in the film with the producer, the student?
00:46:13I think there was some debate about whether you should use the real-life footage, the news footage that you do at the end of the film.
00:46:19It lasts about half a second.
00:46:21The debate?
00:46:22You can't have much of debate in half a second.
00:46:27That was the ending of the film.
00:46:29There was no ists and buts about it.
00:46:32There was only one thing I had to ask Susan Brough.
00:46:38She's the mother of Heather Hare.
00:46:41I wasn't just going to disrespect her and a daughter like that.
00:46:45So, I called her up and she gave her permission.
00:46:48When you're doing a real-life story, do you feel a different level of obligation to the characters?
00:46:54I mean, with Roma, you were making your own life but you also, I think, at some point showed it to the maid that it's based on.
00:47:02Did you feel bound to her story or not?
00:47:08Well, she was very aware of the whole process.
00:47:14So, I was not thinking much about it in terms of I was trying to do something that also is part of my own story.
00:47:25So, I don't think so much as that.
00:47:29You were saying that being a director has been naked.
00:47:32I think that the actors are the ones that are really naked.
00:47:35I mean, we're not as vulnerable as they are in the sense that we're hiding behind the camera.
00:47:42How did you find your leading lady?
00:47:44It was a very long cast.
00:47:46It was maybe one year and we were looking all around Mexico.
00:47:50We have armies of casting crews going through little villages in Oaxaca, a southern state in Mexico.
00:47:59Mexico, and we met with Yalitza in this town called Tlaxiaco.
00:48:06And, oh, I was so lucky to have met here.
00:48:09We are all kinds of doing things.
00:48:11We have to figure out how to nationalize the area.
00:48:13Caridomia.
00:48:14And it was veryzukini.
00:48:15And I did not know how to swim.
00:48:18Hello.
00:48:19So you cannot help but, you don't know, theuna.
00:48:22We are all kinds of fishermen.
00:48:24As to whatillonias workers can do,, I cannot show you.
00:48:26TheCAR group isru.
00:48:28With our schoners in there.
00:48:29And she was a school teacher before she...
00:48:42She had just finished her school to become a teacher.
00:48:49And this is what happened.
00:48:50It's just that when she went to the casting, first she was hesitant about going.
00:48:56And this is the tragedy of the story is because she was afraid that this was about human trafficking.
00:49:03And then after she went, but she didn't know, she had no idea who I was.
00:49:09And what she told me is, look, I just finished this thing.
00:49:14I have to wait around six months, eight months to get the results in terms of getting a job.
00:49:20I have nothing better to do.
00:49:23How many shundays do you have?
00:49:25Over 110.
00:49:26A what?
00:49:27110?
00:49:28I asked you a question.
00:49:29That shot and how you do that shot?
00:49:32The one...
00:49:33The ocean.
00:49:34Oh, yeah.
00:49:35That was a pain.
00:49:36How many takes do you have for that?
00:49:38I could make...
00:49:39That was the only one that I could do.
00:49:41That was one take?
00:49:43Well, I tried it.
00:49:44I tried it before.
00:49:46But the thing is that the night before, we had to go to build this pier in order to bring the camera all the way out into the ocean.
00:49:54Was it a Luma crane?
00:49:55Or what was it?
00:49:56No, there was a Techno crane on top of the pier.
00:49:59Okay.
00:50:00And the thing is that the night before, there was a tropical storm that weakened all the cements of the thing.
00:50:06And the crane kept on derailing.
00:50:08So, like, I don't know, 40 minutes into the shot and the crane was derailing.
00:50:13And that was a whole day like that.
00:50:16And...
00:50:17Yeah, that's...
00:50:18I mean, I've never seen a shot like that before.
00:50:20Oh, thank you, man.
00:50:22You know...
00:50:23Yeah.
00:50:25You had a lifeguard on set?
00:50:26Uh, lifeguards there?
00:50:28Yeah.
00:50:29You look like I'd drown.
00:50:30We shot in absolute continuity.
00:50:32Uh-huh.
00:50:33You know?
00:50:34So, if something happened, I would have a different ending.
00:50:36Wow.
00:50:37Right.
00:50:38You know?
00:50:39It's Mexico.
00:50:40They drowned.
00:50:41You know, it's like...
00:50:42Damn.
00:50:43Back to black.
00:50:44Yeah.
00:50:45Crates in silence.
00:50:46Yeah.
00:50:47It's interesting.
00:50:48You asked me questions.
00:50:49If you could have dinner with another director, you know, living or dead, just to learn from him, who would it be?
00:50:57I would like to talk to Mike Nichols.
00:50:59Oh.
00:51:00Did you ever meet him?
00:51:01Never.
00:51:02Oh.
00:51:03I would have loved to meet Mike Nichols.
00:51:04I saw an interview with him right...
00:51:05Like, it was two weeks before I was gonna shoot.
00:51:07I think it was one of the last interviews he did.
00:51:09And he was talking about how he approaches...
00:51:11Well, first of all, his first movie is Who's Afraid of the Ginger Wolf, which is kind of incredible, you know.
00:51:16That's crazy.
00:51:17And I love carnal knowledge and The Graduate and, you know.
00:51:20But he said he approaches directing the way he approaches acting, which is he prepares, prepares, prepares, and he shows up on the date and he throws it all away.
00:51:27And that really gave me the courage to direct the way I knew that I would be at my best.
00:51:33Because, as an actor, I've watched directors that have many different types of process.
00:51:38And...
00:51:39But I knew that that was kind of...
00:51:41He gave me the courage to embrace that.
00:51:44And...
00:51:45So I would have loved to just meet him and talk.
00:51:47Laurie, how about you?
00:51:48I'm terrible at this question.
00:51:50I don't know.
00:51:51I can't name one person.
00:51:52Are you a film buff?
00:51:53No.
00:51:54Like I said, I didn't go to film school.
00:51:57I come from theater.
00:51:58I feel like I'm always...
00:52:01I don't know.
00:52:02I love getting...
00:52:04I'd love to take that class you were describing, that you had a film history, because I feel like I need that.
00:52:09For me, it's so much more instinct at this point in my...
00:52:13How about you, Alfonso?
00:52:14You're at theater where you're director.
00:52:16One living or dead.
00:52:17No offense to the present, but directors tend to be boring.
00:52:21So, Billy Wilder could be...
00:52:24Oh, yes.
00:52:25Because apparently he was a lot of fun.
00:52:27So...
00:52:28I met him.
00:52:29You met Billy Wilder?
00:52:30Yeah.
00:52:31Was he fun?
00:52:32Was he fun?
00:52:33Yeah, I got a list.
00:52:34I had dinner with Fellini some people at times.
00:52:36Wow.
00:52:37Kazan.
00:52:38NYU.
00:52:39Billy Wilder?
00:52:40NYU.
00:52:41Oh, you had Billy Wilder already here.
00:52:42No, what?
00:52:43You already had Billy Wilder.
00:52:44I'm just saying.
00:52:45Yeah, look at that.
00:52:46What was Kazan like?
00:52:47Who was fun?
00:52:48Yeah, who was the most fun on this list?
00:52:50Fellini.
00:52:51Yeah.
00:52:52He was great.
00:52:53Okay.
00:52:54I would have dinner with Fellini.
00:52:55I would have dinner with Fellini too.
00:52:56That'd be great.
00:52:57Every year, every time I had to go to Italy to do press, call him up.
00:53:01He said, let's have dinner.
00:53:02I would love to be a fly on the wall with you and Fellini.
00:53:05That was hilarious.
00:53:07And then, but Billy Wilder, his last year, he would go to his office.
00:53:12And one of the lots, and I just called him up.
00:53:15He said, come on over.
00:53:16Wow.
00:53:17Did you always feel like you could just call people up?
00:53:21At a certain point in my career.
00:53:26Yeah.
00:53:27Is there anybody you'd be afraid to call?
00:53:28I don't mean the film business, just in the world in general.
00:53:30Well, I mean the director, I'm not calling.
00:53:32Not directors.
00:53:33Who would intimidate you?
00:53:36Human beings?
00:53:37Just any human beings?
00:53:38Does anybody intimidate you?
00:53:41No, not really.
00:53:46Because they're doing this thing that I'm doing, you know, and there was a different
00:53:51approach, different films, and everybody has their own voice and their path.
00:53:56But when you get there, like, here's the thing.
00:53:59I didn't want to be a filmmaker growing up.
00:54:02I only got my love of cinema from my mother.
00:54:05My father hated movies.
00:54:06Huh.
00:54:07So my mother, I love my mother's movie date.
00:54:10My father loved sports.
00:54:12So the love of sports came from my father.
00:54:14And the love of movies came from my mother.
00:54:16So growing up, I didn't even know who the directors were.
00:54:20But I knew who Muhammad Ali was.
00:54:22I knew who Willie Mays was.
00:54:23I knew who Hank Aaron was.
00:54:24I knew who Clemente was.
00:54:25I knew who Roy Frazier was.
00:54:27So when I get to meet these guys, you know, Tommy Smith, John Carlos, 68 Olympics, Mexico.
00:54:36When I get to meet these guys, it's like, it's better to meet directors.
00:54:40Because these are my heroes growing up.
00:54:43I mean, who makes films?
00:54:46I don't know.
00:54:47I went to the movies.
00:54:48I don't know that you can make films.
00:54:51I didn't see anybody I knew.
00:54:53I mean, Oscar Micheaux was like long dead, so.
00:54:57That's long with tight.
00:54:58Yeah.
00:54:59To this dinner.
00:55:00To this dinner.
00:55:01Oh, Oscar Micheaux.
00:55:02Yeah, I'll take Oscar Micheaux.
00:55:03Oh, really?
00:55:04To this little dinner, if you can bring somebody back.
00:55:06Yeah.
00:55:07And so I, maybe, I'm gonna speak for myself, not everybody here, but I say my prayers every
00:55:16night, because I'm doing what I love, and a lot of people go to their grave, haven't
00:55:23worked the job they hated.
00:55:25True.
00:55:26So we're blessed, I think.
00:55:27For sure.
00:55:28We're blessed.
00:55:29Don't you ever hate it?
00:55:30Yes.
00:55:31Hate what?
00:55:32Murray?
00:55:33Sorry.
00:55:34Hate what?
00:55:35No, I just agree.
00:55:36I think that it is, I feel the same way.
00:55:38I feel so grateful, and I feel so lucky, and I was talking to another filmmaker recently
00:55:42about this, and it was like, how do we reconcile the fact that this thing I love also makes me
00:55:48unhappy like 75% of the time, and it's a very difficult thing to explain, because it also
00:55:55sounds ungrateful, and it sounds like, come on, you're getting to do what you love, but
00:56:00there is struggle in making movies.
00:56:03It is a painful process.
00:56:05Writing is incredibly painful.
00:56:07Prepping is incredibly painful.
00:56:09Shooting is incredibly painful.
00:56:10I think editing is terrible.
00:56:11Shooting for me is the worst part.
00:56:13Shooting for me is one of the best parts.
00:56:16So, prepping, I think, is the worst part.
00:56:19Shooting is a motherfucker.
00:56:21You didn't say who you would like to have dinner with.
00:56:25Well, I had time to think about it, and I think I'd say John Cassavetes, because, you
00:56:31know, apart from the brilliance and the work, he seems like an inspiring personality, and
00:56:36so, yeah.
00:56:39Do you have heroes outside the film business, and who are they?
00:56:43Oh, a lot.
00:56:45Name one.
00:56:46Elizabeth Kemp.
00:56:47You wouldn't know her, but, yeah.
00:56:48She was a teacher of mine.
00:56:50Oh.
00:56:51In grad school.
00:56:52Huh.
00:56:53She passed away while we were shooting, while I was editing the movie.
00:56:56Which school?
00:56:57I went to, I did like an MFA.
00:56:59It was at the new school then, but it was called the Actor's Studio MFA.
00:57:02I remember you said that once.
00:57:03Yeah.
00:57:04Murray, what about you?
00:57:05I mean, my current hero has been Mr. Rogers, because I've been in his world for the last
00:57:10year.
00:57:11And I really do think he is one of the most inspiring people that I've ever, by far, had
00:57:16the pleasure of getting to kind of live with his voice in my head.
00:57:20And the more I learn about him, and the more I meet people who really knew him, the more
00:57:25I realize he's actually one of the truest people who's ever walked the planet.
00:57:30Wow.
00:57:31He is somebody who really changed the lives of the people around him.
00:57:36And the entire city of Pittsburgh, you can feel his influence.
00:57:39Huh.
00:57:40And he's changed my life without having ever met him, but getting to sort of live in
00:57:46his sphere of influence and feel his message of kindness in the way that he believed so
00:57:52deeply in all of us and our humanity and our feelings.
00:57:56I don't know.
00:57:57He was always somebody who I admired, but I remember as a kid I wasn't really, I didn't
00:58:01really go for him.
00:58:03But then as a grown-up and raising a child and trying to raise a good person, seeing
00:58:07somebody who dedicated their life so selfish, so selflessly to children, he's just, yeah,
00:58:13a real hero.
00:58:14What about Alfonso and Spike?
00:58:16How about you guys?
00:58:18In terms of heroes, I don't like heroes.
00:58:21I have a lot of people I admire.
00:58:23But name one.
00:58:24Yeah.
00:58:25Wow.
00:58:26We're going to this whole thing of one person.
00:58:30Well, it's tough to think.
00:58:33I mean, who I admire?
00:58:35I admire a living person now.
00:58:39A living person.
00:58:41I admire Mujica, who was the president of Uruguay, who did, you know, like, he created
00:58:49something very interesting while he was there.
00:58:52Spike?
00:58:53In the government.
00:58:54For me, I mean, that's why I had a pen.
00:59:00Artists mostly.
00:59:03James Brown, Prince, Frank Sinatra.
00:59:06That's a lot.
00:59:07A lot.
00:59:08Michael Jackson, Elphus Gerald, Mandela, and Zora Neale Hurston.
00:59:13That would be my love.
00:59:14What about you, Ryan?
00:59:15One person.
00:59:16One?
00:59:17Yeah.
00:59:18Slit it in.
00:59:19Don't vote for that.
00:59:20Let's be free.
00:59:21Yeah, it's hard work.
00:59:22Yeah, it's hard work.
00:59:23I would say, I would say right now it's, right now it's my mom.
00:59:28Okay, but we don't know her.
00:59:29What about somebody that we would actually know?
00:59:30Hopefully we will know her.
00:59:31He's like, but Bradley got away with her.
00:59:32He's like, hold on.
00:59:33Yeah.
00:59:34He's got to be sure.
00:59:35He's got to be sure.
00:59:36He's got to be sure.
00:59:37He's got to be sure.
00:59:38He's got to be sure.
00:59:39He's got to be sure.
00:59:40He's got to be sure.
00:59:41He's like, hold on.
00:59:42Yeah.
00:59:43He's got to be somebody we all know.
00:59:48Patrice Lumumba.
00:59:49Patrice Lumumba.
00:59:50Patrice Lumumba.
00:59:51Patrice Lumumba.
00:59:52He made me rules in this game.
00:59:54He has a lot of rules.
00:59:55He made me rules.
00:59:56He has to be alive?
00:59:57Is that what you're saying?
00:59:58He's supposed to be alive?
00:59:59That was a new rule.
01:00:00The rules are changing.
01:00:01He's got to be alive.
01:00:02Explain who he was.
01:00:03Patrice, so the Democratic Republic of the Congo,
01:00:10when they got the independence, he was the first elected leader.
01:00:14And he was assassinated.
01:00:16By who?
01:00:17CIA.
01:00:18CIA.
01:00:19What about you, Yogos?
01:00:20I'm not going to play along.
01:00:21I don't like rules.
01:00:23I read about people every day that I admire and people that sacrifice their lives and put
01:00:31their ass on the line for other people.
01:00:34So I really don't have names.
01:00:36And also connected to what we were saying before that we should be grateful to be doing what
01:00:42we would do and we love.
01:00:44And I was making this film, The Killing of a Sacred Deer, and we filmed an open heart surgery
01:00:49operation.
01:00:50And we were like stressed and where the camera was going to go and how we're going to film
01:00:55it and if it's going to be the right shot.
01:00:57And then we were there on the day and there were these people that were actually holding
01:01:01a person's heart in their hands.
01:01:03And they were like chatting and discussing.
01:01:07And they were talking what they did last night.
01:01:10And there was music playing.
01:01:12And I go like, I felt so bad at that time.
01:01:16Like such a melodramatic personality that I'm about to die because maybe the lens is not
01:01:25right for filming the shot.
01:01:27And these people have a person's life in their hands.
01:01:30And they just go about to do their job.
01:01:34So that's what I have to say.
01:01:37Last question.
01:01:38How do you explain what you do to your kids, those of you who have kids?
01:01:43My kids grew up on a set, so they know it.
01:01:47They know what daddy does.
01:01:48Okay.
01:01:49Did they ever ask you?
01:01:50What is the director?
01:01:52They saw it.
01:01:53I mean, they were on set.
01:01:57Mari.
01:01:58My son's the kid of two directors, so.
01:02:01Oh.
01:02:02My husband's the director too, so he also is on set all the time.
01:02:06He was on set a lot for my Mr. Rogers movie and he would yell action and cut.
01:02:11And sometimes the actors wouldn't have seen that he had kind of snuck in and sat on my
01:02:16chair.
01:02:17Oh.
01:02:18But they would just hear, action!
01:02:19Like a three and a half year old's voice.
01:02:21And I've asked him, you know, what do you think I do?
01:02:24And he was like, you tell the people on the TV what to do and say?
01:02:28Or he said something like that.
01:02:30You know, he kind of understands.
01:02:31But really I tell him, we just play pretend.
01:02:34And your son followed you into the business, so.
01:02:37I tell them that I'm a corporate lawyer.
01:02:41As a result, stay away at the time.
01:02:44Perfect.
01:02:45So, I hope when we next meet you will truly be a corporate lawyer.
01:02:48And I thank you all so much.
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