Full, Uncensored Drama Actress Roundtable with Patricia Arquette, Christine Baranski and More

Name: Full, Uncensored Drama Actress Roundtable with Patricia Arquette, Christine Baranski and More
Uploaded: 2025-11-27T20:15:28+00:00
Duration: 1 h 8 min 15 s
Channel: Hollywood Journal
Description: The Drama Actress Roundtable brings together Emilia Clarke, Michelle Williams, Patricia Arquette, Christine Baranski, Danai Gurira and Niecy Nash.

Hollywood Journal

11 hours ago

The Drama Actress Roundtable brings together Emilia Clarke, Michelle Williams, Patricia Arquette, Christine Baranski, Danai Gurira and Niecy Nash.

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00:00:00Hi, and welcome to Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter drama actresses.

00:00:11I'm Lacey Rose, and I'm joined by Patricia Arquette, Danai Gurira, Christine Baranski,

00:00:18Michelle Williams, Niecy Nash, and Emilia Clarke.

00:00:22Let's dive right into this.

00:00:23Okay, so we're going to start with an icebreaker.

00:00:25Uh-oh.

00:00:26You can do this.

00:00:27I have faith.

00:00:28Complete this sentence.

00:00:30I knew I'd made it in Hollywood when?

00:00:33At first, somebody told me, you'll know you made it in Hollywood when you become a Halloween costume.

00:00:39And so there was a moment of that, but then...

00:00:43Wait, were you?

00:00:43Did you become one?

00:00:44Yeah, I became a Halloween costume.

00:00:45Amazing.

00:00:46But then for my character from Reno 911, and then when I used to always wear a flower in my hair.

00:00:51People started to copy, and there that was.

00:00:54But then, I was at an event, and I saw America's Diane Carroll.

00:01:01Now, I know her, right?

00:01:04But the fact that she walked up to me and knew me, I said, boy, I might have arrived!

00:01:11Yeah, that's amazing.

00:01:11That's amazing.

00:01:12So, yeah, I was at a gala event, and someone had asked me to auction something.

00:01:22So we were trying to go through all the stuff, and then I couldn't auction.

00:01:25I was like, oh, I'll just auction a dragon, but you can't do that.

00:01:28So I was like, oh, I'll auction, like, come and watch your favorite episode with me, and we'll eat, you know, a horse's heart or something.

00:01:35Anyway, so I have that, and I don't think about what it is until I actually get there, and I'm sitting in the room, and I'm sitting in the room with, like, every celebrity on the planet going, like, I thought this would be, like, a private thing.

00:01:46Like, they wouldn't say it out loud.

00:01:48So they're saying it, and then I have to stand up, and it turns into the thing.

00:01:51And so the auction comes up, the room goes completely silent, and I'm like, I'm going to die.

00:01:55I'm actually going to die.

00:01:56And then one of my friends who was on the table was like, puts his paddle up, and then suddenly some other people start to put their paddles up.

00:02:04And then one of those people was Brad Pitt, so that was fun.

00:02:08And then I win the color I'm going right now.

00:02:11And it was, yeah, that was, yeah, that was a history moment.

00:02:15But he didn't ultimately win.

00:02:16He didn't ultimately win.

00:02:17I know, my friend ultimately won, go figure.

00:02:20But I was at you like, you can stop now.

00:02:23You can stop whatever you want.

00:02:24I was there, and there was a lot of back and forth.

00:02:27It was like, no, yes, no, no, no.

00:02:30I mean, it was some serious competition.

00:02:32It was the most ridiculous, surreal moment of my entire existence.

00:02:37I never called my friends and said anything, and I was like, guys, I just want to let you know.

00:02:41I think I realized, I got a phone call after I did True Romance, or someone left a message, and it was Bruce Willis, right?

00:02:50So I called back like, shut up, who is this?

00:02:53I got a message from Bruce Willis.

00:02:56Hi.

00:02:56I'm like, who is this?

00:02:58Shut up.

00:02:59He's like, this is Bruce Willis.

00:03:00Oh, hello.

00:03:06Nice to meet you.

00:03:08So that was very weird and surreal.

00:03:10You know, I didn't get to Hollywood or accept any jobs in Hollywood doing television, I think, until I was in, I was about 41 when I finally made the jump to television.

00:03:20I'd done some things, guest stars and all, but like Hollywood, no, I was just this theater actress for years and years and years.

00:03:27And then I did this sitcom called Sybil and got an Emmy nomination.

00:03:32Immediately.

00:03:32And I remember arriving almost in time for the ceremony because we were stuck in traffic in that way that you get stuck in traffic on your way to awards.

00:03:40But I remember walking in with my borrowed $500,000 Chanel Camellia diamond necklace, like, holy cow, when you work in the theater, you have to buy your own jewelry and get your own clothes.

00:03:51But I walked in and down, and I was sitting behind David Letterman, and there was Barbra Streisand across the aisle.

00:03:59And I barely had time to sit down in my seat, adjust my boobs in my leather bustier, and I heard my name called, you know, in the nominations, because they always announce the supporting actresses first, which is great.

00:04:14And they called my name, and I went up there and I got an Emmy, and then it was like, holy cow, you know, lovely moments.

00:04:22Yeah, I'd say.

00:04:24I guess mine is more related to the comic book genre.

00:04:29So, it was more like, definitely the Halloween costumes was definitely like, what the heck is going on here?

00:04:38You know, that moment.

00:04:40And then lately, you know, it's been two of them.

00:04:43So, it's one character, and I've played him in another at the same time, which has sort of bugged me out in a great way.

00:04:48It's like, that's awesome.

00:04:50You've been on cushions, I believe, right?

00:04:52Oh, Christ, yeah.

00:04:53And Same at Weekly do a cushion, right?

00:04:55They do a cushion.

00:04:56And if you're on the cover, then you're on a cushion.

00:04:57And one, quite early on, my mum came with me to, like, a junket thing.

00:05:04And she saw the cushion, and she flipped out over the cushion.

00:05:06So, I was like, okay, cool.

00:05:07I keep you cool.

00:05:08Mum's just a cushion.

00:05:09And then I was doing Star Wars, and she came to visit me when I was getting Cyber Scanned for the dolls and all that stuff.

00:05:15So, she's with the marketing people who make all of the merchandise, and literally was just like, can I get, like, what else can I get with my daughter's face on it?

00:05:25What else can you make up for me?

00:05:27And the guy was obviously being really incredibly polite, and, of course, whatever you wanted to know.

00:05:31And I was like, dear God, please don't send her anything.

00:05:33And then one day, I get back from being away for a while.

00:05:36And my mum has made up the spare room with blankets and cushions.

00:05:41And, like, this isn't for sale.

00:05:42Like, I sincerely doubt this is for sale.

00:05:44It's fine.

00:05:44It's specifically for my mum.

00:05:47Just the huge amount of stuff with my face on.

00:05:50Oh.

00:05:51Yeah.

00:05:51I'm hoping there aren't pillows and blankets in other people's houses with your face on it, but who knows?

00:05:56Who knows?

00:05:57But in my house, they're in the attic.

00:05:59How would you guys describe the sort of current phase of your career, vis-a-vis the roles that are coming in?

00:06:04I mean, I feel like I could do this for you.

00:06:06It feels like the year of the complicated, I think you called them monster women.

00:06:11But, yeah, how would you sort of describe what's coming your way now, what that phase looks like?

00:06:19I feel like it's a very exciting phase for me.

00:06:21And I didn't see that coming because I had always seen that women were sort of retired by the business at a certain point and, you know, didn't have much work.

00:06:32And I think I happened to be coming to this age at a time where all these networks, you know, we had like 500 networks.

00:06:39And then there was 500 channels, but nothing was really on.

00:06:42They were just all recycling the same stuff.

00:06:45And I kept thinking, you know, there's going to be a lot of work for actors at some point.

00:06:49There's got to be or people are going to shut off their cable.

00:06:51And now all these networks are making content.

00:06:55And I'm so happy to and lucky to be coming to this age at a time where people are wanting to produce more material.

00:07:05So are you in the in the in the in the huge franchise portion?

00:07:10And these are not indie projects that you're working on.

00:07:15Yeah, I mean, I was saying earlier to you, this is not how I ever imagined how my life work would go, as I used to pretentiously call it.

00:07:24What did you think the lane was going to be?

00:07:25And how would you describe the lane you're currently in?

00:07:27Well, because I'm a playwright, so I really just expected to stay like in indie play world, you know what I mean?

00:07:35And step into this area in very specific ways.

00:07:38I never expected, you know, things like Walking Dead or Marvel, you know, I just never imagined it.

00:07:43So it's kind of I sort of am catching up to that in a little way.

00:07:47But I at the same time, I yeah, there is approaches that involve that type of stuff that happen now.

00:07:55But I think the beauty of it is I just love to tell like, you know, the idea of all the opportunities that are now out there for so many different sort of stories to be told.

00:08:04And sort of the thing on my heart is to get different stories told from various perspectives that I haven't seen in certain mediums yet, like on, you know, on our network television yet or places like that.

00:08:14And that's kind of that idea, that thing that drives me a lot as a writer as well is getting those sort of stories, perspectives we rarely hear from her.

00:08:23We still got a ways to go.

00:08:24We got we got some work to do.

00:08:25We have a long way to go.

00:08:26And also, I almost never see projects with the elderly.

00:08:30Like, great actors, great directors, they really, even just the stories, what's going on?

00:08:39It's like a world we almost never ever see.

00:08:43I think there's a lot of stories to be told.

00:08:46And I feel like the lack of diversity in all these stories has really harmed this form of art because it's.

00:08:55And it shouldn't be just people who are losing their mind or suffering, you know, movies about.

00:08:59I mean, I can speak to that.

00:09:02I'm in my I just finished my 10th year of playing the same character on of Diane Lockhart.

00:09:09And for seven years, I was number two, you know, the supporting actress on The Good Wife.

00:09:14And I loved my role.

00:09:15And I thought it was, you know, great.

00:09:18She was the head of the law firm and the authority figure.

00:09:22And she was strong and dignified and well-dressed.

00:09:24And I loved that role.

00:09:26But she's, you know, with the spinoff that that was created three years ago, she's now number one.

00:09:32And, you know, honestly, I got the number one position finally in my career.

00:09:37And I was in my 60s.

00:09:38So it's like, all right, I like to think, you know, I like to say that there is movement forward.

00:09:44And, you know, these are the best years of my career.

00:09:47I get offered wonderful theater roles.

00:09:50I'm finally a leading lady.

00:09:52After all this time, I was always, you know, sitting waiting the best supporting actress award goes to somebody else.

00:09:59But, you know, it was always a supporting actress.

00:10:01And I'm, you know, I'm the leading lady in a show that's, I'm still this strong, authoritative, professional woman, well-educated.

00:10:09We're seeing women like that in our culture who are now running for president and running the House of Representatives.

00:10:16Thank you very much.

00:10:17Doing very well.

00:10:18You know, women this age are powerful.

00:10:20And I love that somehow in this moment of time, moment in time, I'm playing in a TV show that reflects that.

00:10:27And it's high time that, you know, women of such authority and, you know, have their real airtime.

00:10:35It's long overdue.

00:10:37Do you guys feel like there is a certain type of character or role that are coming your way now?

00:10:44I probably have to say for me, it would be things that lend themselves to this category.

00:10:49The dramatic category.

00:10:51Because I spent the majority of my career in comedy.

00:10:55And that was the whole bit.

00:10:56You're funny.

00:10:57That's what we know you as.

00:10:58And that's where you shall remain.

00:11:00And it took me many, many years to get someone to give me a chance.

00:11:05And then things started to change because of it.

00:11:08Now, don't get me wrong.

00:11:09I love, love, love to make people laugh.

00:11:12And I think it's a gift.

00:11:13But there is something, I feel blessed to be able to use a different part of my instrument.

00:11:23You know, because the other part, I wake up funny.

00:11:26You know what I mean?

00:11:27You know what I mean?

00:11:28And so I'm so used to being funny that when I get to be anything else, I'm like, ooh.

00:11:35And it blesses my soul.

00:11:38I have heard you say that you had, I mean, that you were sort of told, yeah, you have Elaine, you're funny.

00:11:43And that you sort of set a meeting to sort of reintroduce yourself.

00:11:47What did that look like?

00:11:48How receptive were people to that reintroduction?

00:11:51The interesting thing about it is, you know, everybody has a team.

00:11:55We have people.

00:11:57And in those people, I kept trying to, you know, well, let me talk to this one.

00:12:01Because maybe you can ask you, what do you think?

00:12:04And then finally, I was like, nobody is hearing me.

00:12:07So I just called a team meeting and got everybody together.

00:12:11And they were like, well, what's happening?

00:12:12Why are we here?

00:12:13What's going on?

00:12:14And I said, I just wanted to reintroduce myself to you.

00:12:17Because in the years that we've been together, mother has changed.

00:12:21Things are different.

00:12:23You know what I mean?

00:12:23I don't want today what I wanted back then.

00:12:26Back then, I was just hungry.

00:12:28I wanted to eat.

00:12:29You know what I mean?

00:12:30And now the refrigerator is full.

00:12:32Now we can do some other things.

00:12:34So I just wanted them to see me like I saw me.

00:12:38And so that we can go on the path together and not have it feel, you know, like we were disconnected.

00:12:45Can anyone else relate to that?

00:12:47I mean, having those sort of conversations of, I'd like you to see me in a different way.

00:12:51Yeah.

00:12:52Yeah.

00:12:52Well, because I was stupidly lucky at a very young age and fell into something that has

00:12:59just been miraculous on every level.

00:13:02Tiny.

00:13:03Like in the beginning, I was just like, I'm employed.

00:13:06Yeah, I'm hungry.

00:13:06I need to put some food in the fridge.

00:13:08Yeah.

00:13:08And it happened to be incredibly, it was brilliant.

00:13:12It's been amazing.

00:13:13But it's, yeah, it's 10 years on one show.

00:13:16And when I started, I was a baby.

00:13:18I was an absolute child.

00:13:19He didn't know what IMDb was.

00:13:22You know what I mean?

00:13:22And so throughout this time, it's, it's, I mean, I don't have the guts to be like, yo,

00:13:29guys, this is the new me.

00:13:31I have something to say and it's not what I said before.

00:13:34But in the beginning, it was like, hey, do you want to do this really, really big movie?

00:13:37And you're like, yeah, of course I do.

00:13:38Like, you kidding?

00:13:39Yeah, this is.

00:13:40And then you do lots and lots of them and you start to see that you haven't, are not

00:13:44at any point you've, at no point you've kind of gone in and gone, no, this is my voice.

00:13:49This is what it sounds like.

00:13:50I didn't know what my voice was because I was so young and I just wanted to do all of

00:13:54the fabulous things that everyone paints to be like Hollywood perfect.

00:13:59And then suddenly you're like, no, I went to drama school.

00:14:01I care about art.

00:14:03I care about telling the right stories.

00:14:05I care about working with auteurs.

00:14:07I care about inhabiting characters that have something to say.

00:14:11And it takes a minute for the people around you to go, oh, right.

00:14:16Oh, sorry.

00:14:16I thought you just wanted to eat.

00:14:19I did feel like I also encountered a little pushback.

00:14:24I'd come, I was lucky enough to have success when I was young.

00:14:28And a lot of that was the boy and girl story and being an ingenue.

00:14:33Yeah.

00:14:33And then as I was getting older, there was still, you know, this kind of pressure to look

00:14:38a certain way.

00:14:39I had an argument with one of the producers on Medium.

00:14:43He told me I should lose weight.

00:14:45And I was like, no, this lady's a mother.

00:14:47She's married.

00:14:47She's got three kids.

00:14:48No.

00:14:49So, but still that kind of expectation of being beautiful, of looking a certain way.

00:14:56And then, okay, you could be 40, but you got to look like a great 40.

00:15:00You got to look like 40 who looks 30.

00:15:03You know, that kind of a thing.

00:15:06So, when I was doing, starting to work on Escape at Dannemora, and then again with the act,

00:15:14I definitely felt some pushback and had some conversations about taking that chance and

00:15:23looking a certain way that I wouldn't work anymore, you know, that I would lose work.

00:15:28Because really, and in fairness, they'll have those conversations.

00:15:33What does she look like now?

00:15:35Why don't you send us a picture of what she looks like right now?

00:15:36And I said, you know what?

00:15:39I've had a good run as an ingenue, all these different things, but it's also always been

00:15:43a little bit of a box.

00:15:45I always wanted to be an actor, and I never got to really do character work.

00:15:51And you know what?

00:15:51I want to really go for this and really explore this thing, because I feel like it's free.

00:15:57And I don't, I trust myself as an artist.

00:16:01I've earned my own trust within myself to say, that's the path I want to go on.

00:16:08And see, you know what the trick bag is about that, is that when we enter on a set,

00:16:13the very first thing that they do is they put us in hair and makeup, and we walk out of

00:16:17there looking like angels are dancing on our face.

00:16:20And so the minute that you have to interpret a character, because this happened to me when

00:16:23I did Getting On, which was where I got my first Emmy nomination, and they took everything

00:16:29off.

00:16:29They wouldn't even let me wear a spank, girl.

00:16:31I said, this is what kind of evil is this.

00:16:35They took everything.

00:16:38And then they put me under the worst lighting God has ever created, and said, now act.

00:16:43And I said, oh, what's happening?

00:16:46But I will tell you that what, it was so freeing for me.

00:16:50And I leaned so much on just trusting my gift and the pretentiousness and the part that I

00:16:57had learned early on in the career, that you got to strap it down and hose it back and

00:17:03do all the things.

00:17:04And I was able to divorce myself from that.

00:17:07And honestly, the worst I looked on camera, these are the jobs that people show up for

00:17:12and be like, we see what you're doing over there, girl.

00:17:14Yeah.

00:17:15Because they see through it.

00:17:16They see through the powdered beauty and the kind of, because it can be distracting.

00:17:21And then you get to actually show humanity and a part and a, yeah, character.

00:17:27Are there roles and ways that you guys are still hoping to be seen?

00:17:31Are there sort of dream roles that are not coming your way?

00:17:34Buddy cop.

00:17:34Let's do the buddy cop.

00:17:35I like it.

00:17:37No, well, I'm just kidding.

00:17:38But sort of, yeah.

00:17:39I mean, just like something goofy.

00:17:41I think I've been doing a lot of like, well, my characters have been very, quote unquote,

00:17:46strong.

00:17:47Yes.

00:17:47And that can have its own trapdom.

00:17:49You know what I mean?

00:17:50Though, thankfully, I've had a really, like, especially with, lately with like Okoye, for

00:17:54instance, or whatever, in the Marvel movies, she's got a lot of different things.

00:17:58She's very humorous and she's got a lot of heart.

00:18:00So, and so does Michonne, but it's just like, but, you know, I just got to expand more of

00:18:05the spectrum with her.

00:18:06But the idea of like, say, putting away strong altogether, like, I have no strength.

00:18:12Let's start from there.

00:18:13Yep.

00:18:14That would be interesting for me.

00:18:15Sure.

00:18:15Yeah, that would be really good.

00:18:17What about you guys?

00:18:17Michelle and I were talking, I was saying to Michelle, what a brilliant job she did as

00:18:22Gwen, Gwen Verdon, and like, what was the preparation?

00:18:25Uh-huh.

00:18:25We were both talking about how liberating it is to sing and dance, and there's never enough

00:18:30time to learn it.

00:18:30But when you get into it, it's such a wonderful frontier.

00:18:34I can't announce what I'm doing next because they haven't formally announced it.

00:18:38But I am singing any chance I get because I'm preparing for a role that involves singing.

00:18:45And it's just like...

00:18:45So we're going to karaoke after this?

00:18:47Yeah.

00:18:48We're going to do it.

00:18:49We're going to do it.

00:18:50It's so liberating in a terrifying, wonderful way.

00:18:53But this release.

00:18:54It is, isn't it?

00:18:56There's joy there.

00:18:57Yeah.

00:18:57There's joy.

00:18:58Like, you return to some sort of childhood state.

00:19:02Like, you lose your self-consciousness because you can't really...

00:19:05That part of your brain, it can't be accessed while you're singing and you're dancing because

00:19:09your sort of logic is turned off because you're remembering things and you're doing steps.

00:19:17And your body is involved and, like, your diaphragm is involved.

00:19:20And so it's this kind of...

00:19:24It runs through your entire system.

00:19:26And I found it when I did...

00:19:28Well, when I did Marilyn, I started dancing a little bit.

00:19:31And then when I did cabaret for a year, I was singing and dancing.

00:19:34And as difficult as those things were, I noticed that there was something inside of them, this joy.

00:19:40And I just thought, well, whatever.

00:19:42I want to get back to that.

00:19:44Like, that's a place that I really want to live more often.

00:19:46And because of living in New York and because of having access to this theater community,

00:19:51I've just made that a part of my life.

00:19:53And it's something that I'm always kind of looking to do.

00:19:55And so when she came up, when Gwen came up, I was like, oh, perfect.

00:19:59Oh, my God.

00:20:00That's the...

00:20:01That'll, like, cover everything that I'm really interested in doing right now.

00:20:05That'll check all my boxes.

00:20:07Sure.

00:20:07You guys are at points in your careers where you can afford to be picky.

00:20:11You afford to say, no, don't want to do that.

00:20:14What are the examples for you guys of things that you're like, eh, I'm just not going to do that?

00:20:19Don't want to play a cranky old lady.

00:20:21Don't want to play a bitch.

00:20:22Just to, you know, or a powerful woman who, because she's powerful, is a bitch.

00:20:27You know, all the stereotypes about older women.

00:20:29No.

00:20:30Not going to do it.

00:20:31No.

00:20:31I don't want to travel for work.

00:20:35I've somehow managed to work out of New York for the last seven years.

00:20:39My daughter's stay in the same school and the same friends.

00:20:41And that's, like, a super high priority to me.

00:20:43I really want to be able to find things that I love to do and stay at home.

00:20:48You know, I'm at a place in this moment where I don't want to be a sassy black anything.

00:20:54I don't want to be a sassy black mama.

00:20:56I don't want to be a sassy black neighbor.

00:20:57I don't want to be a sassy black friend.

00:21:01You know, I just, there's so many more notes to be played.

00:21:06Broken is a delicious note to play on camera.

00:21:09The mother that I play in, when they see us, is just white-knuckling it and doing the best she can.

00:21:19You know, and I know when I had my first baby, they give me this kid, and I literally was like, they don't let me leave with this little baby?

00:21:27And I was inching towards the door, like, I'm leaving, and I was like, ma'am.

00:21:31I was waiting.

00:21:32You know, but as a mother, we are so, that's when you realize how imperfect you are.

00:21:38Sure.

00:21:38You have this idea, I'm going to show up to the thing, and I'm going to, and it all falls apart.

00:21:44And surviving, and thriving, and still trying to create a life that is good for this other human being you brought into the world.

00:21:54But you're a victim of your own pain.

00:21:56You're a victim of your own experience.

00:21:58Just because you had a baby doesn't erase all of those things.

00:22:01So, leaning into this woman that I played here, she wasn't a sassy anything.

00:22:10And it was absolutely delicious to find her pain and her brokenness.

00:22:15And some places, it overlapped mine.

00:22:17You know what I mean?

00:22:18And that's when you get in that scene, and y'all have experienced it, where when them tears start flowing, and they ain't because of the script.

00:22:25You need to miss all, no!

00:22:31I've been really, really lucky with playing Daenerys, that every single season she's different.

00:22:40Every single season she grows and she changes, and evolves, and gets stronger, and more powerful.

00:22:46But also the thing that I've enjoyed the most is the fragility.

00:22:51So, when looking at what do I not want to do, I've been so insanely lucky with this woman who is evolving and changing.

00:23:01And it's very much this season.

00:23:04And so I've got to kind of inhabit so many different spaces with her.

00:23:07So, from a character point of view, there's nothing in my mind that I would not want to venture into.

00:23:14Because I kind of just want to try everything now that the show is done.

00:23:19I want to kind of see what I'm going to be, what I'm going to do.

00:23:22I don't know what I want to do.

00:23:24The one thing I do sort of know is that I would like to do, I would not like to do something that would have like a sequel.

00:23:32Uh-huh.

00:23:33You know what I mean?

00:23:34Something that could have like, and then two, and then three, and then four, and then like, I'd like to not do one of those for a minute.

00:23:39But that is what a lot of these franchise movies are.

00:23:42That would be really good.

00:23:43You're signing on to potentially committing to the next seven years of your life.

00:23:48Exactly.

00:23:48And to do something that has been made before.

00:23:51I mean, literally has been made before.

00:23:52Not like a character that we've seen a bunch, but like an actual thing that has been made already.

00:23:58And then I just do it again, badly.

00:24:01One of the things you sort of famously did not want to do was.

00:24:06Oh, God, I know.

00:24:07No such thing as off the record.

00:24:09No.

00:24:09Literally.

00:24:10That bloody article.

00:24:11Oh, my God.

00:24:12This woman was like, it's fine.

00:24:14What is it?

00:24:14Did you turn down anything really juicy?

00:24:15And I was like, this conversation's been going on for two and a half hours.

00:24:19Okay, fine.

00:24:19Yeah, I turned down.

00:24:21Fifty Shades of Grey.

00:24:21There you go.

00:24:22But I'm curious, in that, I mean, how much of that was the sort of idea of being pigeonholed?

00:24:27The last time that I was naked on camera on the show was a long time ago.

00:24:32And yet it is the only question that I ever get asked.

00:24:35Because I am a woman.

00:24:37And it is annoying as hell.

00:24:40And I'm sick and tired of it.

00:24:41Yeah.

00:24:42Because I did it for the character.

00:24:43I didn't do it for titillation.

00:24:44I didn't do it so some guy could check out my tits, for God's sake.

00:24:48So, that coming up, I was like, I can't.

00:24:52So, me saying yes to that, I was just like, no way.

00:24:55Am I going to voluntarily walk into that situation and then never be able to look someone in the eye and be like, no, you can't keep asking me this question.

00:25:03Right.

00:25:03Because that would be the question that they would then ask.

00:25:06Because you're signing up for it.

00:25:07You guys are all looking.

00:25:07Can you relate to this?

00:25:09I can.

00:25:10Well, I had a situation that was a little bit of the reverse.

00:25:14In that, I had to do a scene.

00:25:16And I mean, I mean, and it was only like partial things that kind of had to show.

00:25:21And my thing was, you know, I'm not a size two.

00:25:24You know what I mean?

00:25:24And I was taking one.

00:25:25I was like, I'm going to go for it.

00:25:27For the thick girl out there that needs to see herself represented, having sex on her own accord and owning her own body and not, she's just showing up for the pleasure of a man.

00:25:36I was like, oh, Lord, let me take a water pill.

00:25:38Let me think thin.

00:25:39Let me get out here.

00:25:42And then after I go through all the amalgamations and the people are in there and it's the boom, it's the mic and all my kibbles and bits covered and wait and what's happening.

00:25:50Then I see the edit and they just completely took it out.

00:25:55And I was like, not so much for my vanity sake, but just my emotional peace of mind.

00:26:00Why you make me go through all of that?

00:26:02And I was just like, okay, okay.

00:26:04You know, trying to steal myself.

00:26:07You know what I mean?

00:26:08And then to not use it.

00:26:10Like, we just decided that we thought, you know, it would be better if.

00:26:13And I was like, guys.

00:26:15And I just feel like I'm to the point in my life now where if I do it, you better put it on there.

00:26:22You better.

00:26:23That's right.

00:26:25Why did I eat grapefruit for a week?

00:26:27I've just been like, my experiences have been like, the idea, like for me it has to be very, and luckily I started, like when I started to do TV, I was like 30s, right?

00:26:41So it's been, it was a while, so I got kind of stuck in my ways in a sense.

00:26:46You know, the confidence.

00:26:47I don't know about that, but all I know is I had to know I could wake up in the morning and feel good about what I'd done the day before.

00:26:53That's the thing I would always think about.

00:26:54So I would remember having an argument with the director because I was like, this is, I know you have it written in here like this, but this is what you're getting.

00:27:01And I wrote it on the script that I had it to.

00:27:03I said, you're not getting that and you're not getting that.

00:27:05Are these sexual pieces or is that what you mean?

00:27:08Love scenes?

00:27:09It was a love scene.

00:27:10It was a love scene.

00:27:10And I was like, these parts aren't being seen.

00:27:12And he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:16I was like, no, this is serious.

00:27:17It's really not happening.

00:27:19And I had to really get him there because he had to adjust his mind around it.

00:27:23And he's an awesome guy, but he had to adjust his mind around the fact that this was where I was going.

00:27:28And I realized this is what we have to do as women.

00:27:31We actually have to like get the minds of folks there sometimes that it's not, I know what your vision is, but this is, I will tell the story for her without that happening.

00:27:41There you go.

00:27:41Is it that like, they pull it down, keep pulling it up.

00:27:44They pull it down, keep pulling it up.

00:27:45I'm like, I know.

00:27:47I've done all types of tricks.

00:27:48Like I do a scene where I like had like, you know, I had like your skin color, like things on my breasts.

00:27:53Right, right.

00:27:54I've done that before.

00:27:55Yes.

00:27:55You're fine.

00:27:57Yeah, exactly.

00:27:58You know, just stuff like that.

00:28:00Yeah, we were like, that's a top.

00:28:01I'm wearing a bandeau top.

00:28:02Exactly.

00:28:03I put like 17 of them on.

00:28:04Yeah, exactly.

00:28:05Like there's just nothing to use.

00:28:07Safety precautions.

00:28:08So, Christine, you, when you were filming the Good Fight pilot, Hillary was assumed, I think, from most people on your set, she was going to be president.

00:28:18Well, it was sort of in the plot because I.

00:28:21Well, yes.

00:28:21One of the first scenes was me in the boardroom in a fabulous suit saying, there are no more glass ceilings to break and I'm retiring, gentlemen.

00:28:29And the pilot was supposed to be about how I lost all my money.

00:28:33And that was the dramatic thrust of where they took the character.

00:28:37But then when we were filming the pilot, it was election night.

00:28:42And the camera was turning around on my close-ups when I checked the phone to find out who was the assumed winner of the election.

00:28:50So, we changed, you know, we changed the pilot considerably.

00:28:55And you lose that line.

00:28:57You lose the line about the glass ceiling.

00:28:59The glass ceiling.

00:28:59And then the very first scene of the pilot is my looking at the television set like this as I'm watching the inauguration of Donald Trump.

00:29:08And it's the actual, in real time.

00:29:09Yeah, and what's amazing is.

00:29:10How does that inform, yeah, how does that inform where you go?

00:29:13How does it inform where the show goes?

00:29:15And you terrified in that moment both as a human and as a performer.

00:29:19How it was really serendipitous because for seven years on The Good Wife, as I've said, this is, Diane Lockhart was always a liberal, Emily's List carrying card member, feminist.

00:29:31She was written that way.

00:29:32And she was written with a certain moral authority and passion for, you know, breaking the glass ceiling.

00:29:38And in my office, there was always a picture of Hillary Clinton and I.

00:29:42It was photoshopped, obviously, but from the time of the pilot.

00:29:45Wow, okay.

00:29:45So when we filmed one of the scenes in the pilot that, you know, we were still, it was before election night.

00:29:53I was packing the picture of Hillary Clinton and I in a box.

00:29:58And I remember saying to my director, well, you know, this woman is going to be the president.

00:30:03So maybe Diane is looking at that picture thinking if she can do it, I can do it.

00:30:07And then a few days later, we were, you know, facing a new reality.

00:30:13But what was amazing is that because we took the character into a spinoff situation, but this was before Donald Trump had been elected.

00:30:23But it's provided fertile ground for a woman who is, you know, passionate liberal feminist of a certain age who was a Hillary supporter to be the leading lady in a show where now she's a Trump resister.

00:30:38And it's very much, you know, the story is very much predicated.

00:30:41Her story is a lot about her inability to process what's going on in the country and what's happening to women and are we going backwards.

00:30:51So it's provided a lot of dramatic, raw material.

00:30:56Where did the real guys go?

00:30:58Why do we now have these snide little creatures with slick back hair and cologne?

00:31:06What happened to Paul Newman and Burt Lancaster?

00:31:09What happened to men who were slow to anger and responsible and who didn't cry like whiny little bitches?

00:31:16When did Trump and Kavanaugh become our idea of an aggrieved man, quivering lips, blaming everyone but themselves?

00:31:27But I am curious.

00:31:28I mean, I think you've talked about, certainly, I think on both of your most recent projects about sort of how you, they call, you know, you finish at the end of the day and yet you have to sort of take these projects home with you and these characters home with you.

00:31:43I mean, you were living in the belly of the beast on this show.

00:31:46So there isn't that sort of release at the end of the day.

00:31:48Cable news is like research for me.

00:31:50I have to keep my sense of outrage, which isn't hard.

00:31:53It's not difficult for me.

00:31:54But is there a release and what does it look like for you?

00:31:56It's called a vacation and in two weeks I'm taking it and I'm turning the phone off and I'm not looking at the news.

00:32:03But that happened last year as well.

00:32:06But I think people are collectively feeling this, not just actors.

00:32:09I just happened to be in a show where we really are dealing with, they're fictional characters, but we are living in the moment, in this historical, cultural moment.

00:32:19So, yeah, it can be a little, get me out of this, get me out of here.

00:32:22Yeah.

00:32:23So with Escape at Dannemora, you shot in a prison.

00:32:27You were there, surrounded by people who were living this life.

00:32:31How did that sort of inform you?

00:32:33How scary was that?

00:32:36It was very intense to feel the energy and see all the dynamics.

00:32:41I mean, even briefly at these prisons, because we shot at five different prisons.

00:32:45So what happens at the end of the day when you're driving back to wherever you're staying?

00:32:49Well, and also shooting up north, it was very cold.

00:32:52It's like winter.

00:32:53It's a gray town.

00:32:55The middle of the town is the prison, this huge wall.

00:32:58And there's a depressing quality.

00:33:01There's a tension going on everywhere, I think.

00:33:04And then gaining weight for that part and wanting her to look a certain way and feeling that was the right choice for me to make.

00:33:12But then going into the world and having people's reaction.

00:33:15It's like a scientific experiment.

00:33:17People would look at you like, oh, I used to love you.

00:33:21Yeah.

00:33:22Are you still acting?

00:33:23Oh, my gosh.

00:33:24Or people just wouldn't really even.

00:33:27But more than that, the way people perceive me was as an invisible person.

00:33:31Like, oh, you're just kind of a matronly, dumpy, middle-aged lady.

00:33:37So you just don't exist.

00:33:41Yeah, but better for you if they die.

00:33:46What is it?

00:33:47What does that mean?

00:33:51Wouldn't it be convenient to be the only person who lives to tell the story?

00:33:55Am I wrong?

00:33:58Well, yeah, you're wrong.

00:34:01I mean, what?

00:34:03I mean, what does that mean?

00:34:06I'm uptight.

00:34:07I'm not comfortable.

00:34:08I take baths in the dark.

00:34:10I've always been modest since I was a little girl.

00:34:12Chains behind a chair.

00:34:14But I really wanted to do these love scenes.

00:34:17Like, I'm going to gain a bunch of weight, and my boobs are going to be giant, and my stomach.

00:34:23No, I'm not.

00:34:23Actually, this is the first love scene.

00:34:25I'm not wearing any body makeup.

00:34:27I don't care that you have real sunlight, and it's high death, or whatever, you know.

00:34:33This is all a nightmare, but not really, because I really want to say, who's allowed to be sexual now in this culture?

00:34:40When are women allowed to be sexual?

00:34:42What body type do we have to have?

00:34:44And this lady is more comfortable with her sexuality than I am.

00:34:48And what does it feel like to be in a character that is willing to embrace that?

00:34:54I was going to say, when you talked about taking things home, I did the story of the Central Park Five, and the new title is called When They See Us.

00:35:05And this is the first time I've ever done a project where they provided crisis counselors.

00:35:10Huh.

00:35:11Wow.

00:35:11After the end of the day, if there was a number, you could call, and somebody could talk to you, because the material was so heavy.

00:35:20And there were often times that the real boys, if you guys don't know about it, they had been accused of raping a woman in Central Park, but they were all babies, and none of them did it, and they got convicted for something that they did not do.

00:35:32And it's their story, but there will be times sometimes when the real men now would be on set, so to come and meet you or talk to you or just be there, because it's their story being told.

00:35:47So you have that, and you have the waiting material, and going home at the end of the day, listen, you know, seeing these children being dragged out this courtroom, and as a mother feeling so powerless, I would get off that set and be like, I'm not going to make it.

00:36:06Bring the funny back!

00:36:08You know, because I, it was, I felt so full at the end of the day, you know, but you feel so driven to tell the story, and you just get back up, and you figure it out, and you muscle through it, because that has to be more important than how you feel.

00:36:24I'm side-ass.

00:36:25Can you put a little side-ass on my commissary account?

00:36:29Mama, not, not much.

00:36:31Ain't a little bit helps.

00:36:3210, 20, just, just to add to my books.

00:36:38Boy, I ain't got nothing to give you.

00:36:46I ain't got it.

00:36:48But, um, I will work on it.

00:36:53I think, Michelle, with Fosse Vernon, I think one of the things that's sort of come up is that we're all so aware of Bob Fosse and his story, and I think we weren't as aware of Gwen's story, and I think that that, over the course of,

00:37:08of the creation of this show, her role became, I believe, a bigger piece of it, and a story that was worth, worth telling.

00:37:17What were, A, why do you think it's the case that, that it, that we know the man's story?

00:37:22What does that say about our culture, and how important was it to explore both stories?

00:37:27Well, I think when the project was initially developed, it was just called Fosse, and that was about two years ago.

00:37:33And I think about, I don't know, a year into developing it or something, they realized that they actually wanted to tell both of their stories,

00:37:39which was after meeting their daughter, Nicole Fosse, who said that she would be involved in it,

00:37:44but she gave them so much information about who Gwen was that they said, oh, we should make this about two people instead.

00:37:51But I think it's a lot of what we're talking about, you know, Gwen aged out, because she was a, because she was primarily a dancer.

00:37:59They say, like, a dancer dies two deaths, you know, when you actually die, and then the day that you can't dance in the way that you used to be able to dance.

00:38:05And so she had that creative, she had that creative death.

00:38:09And so her story sort of goes more quietly.

00:38:15And if you know people who, if you're lucky enough to talk to people who knew her, of course it didn't.

00:38:19She continued to live a very full life, and she taught, and she choreographed, and she recreated his work, and she restaged his work.

00:38:27But in this creative burst that they were living in, while she was still an active dancer and actress,

00:38:33she was sort of written out of the story.

00:38:37And the show attempts to rectify that.

00:38:40Kids in the jungle are being zipped into body bags on the evening news.

00:38:45Richard Nixon is our president, God help us.

00:38:47People aren't going to the movies to escape anymore.

00:38:50They're going to find something true.

00:38:54Boy, I wish you'd been here from the start.

00:38:57He needs you.

00:38:58I just know how to speak Bob.

00:39:00It's my native tongue.

00:39:03You became a sort of a face of a movement, and your experience on All the Money in the World became an experience.

00:39:12I mean, it wasn't just your story anymore.

00:39:14It became the world story, and you became someone that Hollywood was outraged on your behalf.

00:39:20What did it feel like to be in the middle of that?

00:39:23It was interesting.

00:39:23So I went to D.C. recently to speak on pay equality.

00:39:27A couple of years.

00:39:28Yeah, it was, it all happened very quickly.

00:39:33I'd become friends with, you know, when we went to the Golden Globes and we took these activists as our dates,

00:39:37we all became friendly, and we all just sort of stayed in touch.

00:39:41And one of them reached out to me, and she said, hey, like, are you available in three days to come down and do this thing?

00:39:45And I said, like, for you, yes, I'll get rid of everything else I was supposed to do, and I'll come, what is it?

00:39:52Like, what's going on?

00:39:52What am I doing?

00:39:53And she's like, just write a quick thing, and you're just going to say a quick thing, and then you'll go.

00:39:56And so I was like, okay, sure.

00:39:57Famous last words.

00:39:58Uh-huh.

00:39:58Yeah, and it was a much bigger sort of platform than I had even realized.

00:40:04And something that was interesting that was said to me there was that they were so grateful for me coming to tell this story,

00:40:10because it's hard to see when you're talking about sort of $10 versus $14.

00:40:16People have a hard time hearing the difference, but when you use an example as extreme as mine,

00:40:21it sort of brings, it really brings the entire case to come home to rest.

00:40:26You can really, the larger example, like, can speak to the other example.

00:40:29And I'm so moved personally and professionally to have found my place in the conversation

00:40:37and my voice through the conversation and to feel like I've grown up inside of the conversation,

00:40:42and it's the thing that I'll, you know, feel the closest to more than any work that I've ever done,

00:40:49being able to, if I can just incrementally move the needle for other women.

00:40:52It's the same.

00:40:53Have you seen the response to you change in the process as you take new jobs,

00:40:58as you walk into rooms?

00:41:00I don't know if everybody feels like this, but I just feel like the dynamic on sets has changed.

00:41:05I don't know if you guys experience the same thing.

00:41:07In what way?

00:41:08I feel like the workplace, I've said before, but I, they don't hug you anymore.

00:41:17Morning!

00:41:18Yeah, you don't get a morning grope.

00:41:21You get, like, a morning handshake.

00:41:24That's been my experience recently.

00:41:26And I just feel like more space has opened up in, in the room, like, in the actual creative process in the,

00:41:33when you're sort of in the figuring out of things, I feel like I'm heard in a different way.

00:41:40Not even heard in a different way, that the space has opened up for me, but to be able to be heard.

00:41:45Nobody will be surprised if a woman speaks out now on certain things.

00:41:50Yeah.

00:41:51And that, that has changed.

00:41:52Yeah.

00:41:53It's a corrective moment in the culture.

00:41:55There's no question.

00:41:56Sure.

00:41:56Certainly in our, in our industry.

00:41:58I'm definitely seeing also a lot more women on the set.

00:42:02Oh, definitely.

00:42:03I see women boom operators and DPs.

00:42:06And I'm seeing, I'm working with a lot more women directors.

00:42:10And I think that space has given me a little more strength as an actor in myself.

00:42:15There will be times where creatively, I really disagree with someone's choice.

00:42:20For the first time in my life, and I'm not saying young actors should do this because you can learn a lot by trying to step outside your comfort zone.

00:42:28But I said to somebody, I'm not doing it like that.

00:42:31And because of this and this and this and this, and I had tons of reasons and the scene before and the scene after and this, and this is the choice that I made.

00:42:40It's a conscious choice.

00:42:41Don't want to hear, we'll shoot it both ways.

00:42:44Don't worry.

00:42:44We'll see.

00:42:45Yeah, you know what that means.

00:42:46You know what that means.

00:42:47You get your take, but I'm doing my take.

00:42:49Yes.

00:42:49It's so important because like we're in a society so, so often as women in every field, I imagine that, you know, the idea of pleasing or being, you know,

00:42:58so amenable and doing what you're told in a sense and getting along is so paramount.

00:43:03And so that breaking that down and being like, we're going to collaborate here.

00:43:07This is going to be about the fact that I'm here as a whole artist and we're collaborating.

00:43:11I'm not just obeying, but I mean, I collaborate.

00:43:15I don't not listen, but sometimes there are things that are very clear to me and I want that respected.

00:43:18I think that's the place that we're going.

00:43:20When I first started acting, I got my first big break and it turned out I was pregnant.

00:43:34And in that project, I was supposed to get gang raped.

00:43:37And I was like, you know what?

00:43:39Even though the producers were cool and like, we don't think you'll be showing that much and it'll be all right.

00:43:44I was like, I've never had a baby before and I don't know how heavy that's going to be.

00:43:48Oh, yeah.

00:43:48And I don't want to worry about throwing up or keeping you guys waiting.

00:43:53And I don't want to worry about gaining weight or not.

00:43:55So I kind of walked away from like my big star chance.

00:43:59And I didn't know if I'd ever really have another one.

00:44:03And after I had my son, I wasn't getting any work acting.

00:44:08And so I got a job waitressing.

00:44:12I was supposed to start in a few days.

00:44:14I told my agent, hey, I don't think I'm going to be able to do this thing anymore.

00:44:17I need a full-time job.

00:44:19I have a baby at home, 20 years old.

00:44:21I need to take care of my kid.

00:44:23And, you know, maybe that train has left the station, but I'm not looking back.

00:44:27But I got a job the night before I was supposed to start waitressing.

00:44:32So I was like, thank you.

00:44:33I got a job.

00:44:35They were like, yay, because they're all actors too, right?

00:44:37All the other waiters.

00:44:38So thank you.

00:44:40But I was supposed to do this movie.

00:44:43And there was a love scene.

00:44:44And the concept was, well, the whole really plot was this guy was videotaping women.

00:44:52He was having sex with.

00:44:53And it was this hidden camera, right?

00:44:55So, yay, I'm so happy.

00:44:58I'm a single mom.

00:44:59I'm broke.

00:45:00I don't know where I'm going to buy diapers.

00:45:01And now I've got an acting job again.

00:45:04And so I have this conversation with the director, like, what do you want to see or not see?

00:45:09Or what do you mean?

00:45:10I mean, how do you envision this scene?

00:45:14And, you know, do you want to see breasts?

00:45:17Do you want to see, you know, what are you?

00:45:20I don't want to decide.

00:45:22I want to be free.

00:45:22I want you to sign a piece of paper saying you'll do whatever I want.

00:45:27And now I was breastfeeding and I felt really vulnerable.

00:45:31And I was so broke.

00:45:34And I had to say, you know what?

00:45:36I have to walk away from this job.

00:45:38And it sucks.

00:45:40Yeah, you did.

00:45:41This is the second time I'm having to kind of make a really important moral decision.

00:45:49And, you know, and, dude, I'm like a broke single mom with a tiny baby at home.

00:45:55That's so powerful.

00:45:56And you as a director can't make a decision, you know?

00:45:59The power of the word no, I mean, I think it really defines a path in a sense.

00:46:03Because you're really creating this is who I am, this is what I do, this is what I don't do.

00:46:07And I'm okay with that.

00:46:08And if you're not, that's okay.

00:46:09You know, and it's such a powerful one to be able to stand in your no.

00:46:13I think it's the most defining thing you can do.

00:46:15It's the most powerful word in this business.

00:46:17Because you show up to it so young and you want to say yes to everything.

00:46:21What, you want me to do jumping jacks?

00:46:22I got it.

00:46:23Yes, I can do it.

00:46:23Yes, yes.

00:46:24You're saying yes to everything.

00:46:26And the minute you realize it and you tell somebody in a position of authority, no, they're taking it back.

00:46:31Because all they get is yeses, you know, all day.

00:46:36I'm going to take a little bit of a left turn that I want to touch on some of the shows that you're a part of.

00:46:41You're on these shows where every episode could be your last.

00:46:45I don't know how much you know.

00:46:47How many questions do you ask?

00:46:50As in if we're going to live another episode?

00:46:51Live and die, yeah.

00:46:53On the show, you have the phone call.

00:46:56Yeah.

00:46:56And are you just sitting there waiting for the phone call for the last 10 years?

00:47:00No, no, it sort of depends.

00:47:02Like in the early days, we were kind of like, oh, okay, this is like a theme.

00:47:05We're killing everyone.

00:47:07We're like, again, like guaranteeing our mortgages.

00:47:09Let's just get that straight.

00:47:11And no, so you get a phone call from David and Dan, who are the creators of the show.

00:47:15And everyone starts to really dread that phone call.

00:47:18Because if you're like, oh my God, they want to take me out for dinner.

00:47:21They want to take me out for dinner.

00:47:22And so then you know that's the case of death, literally.

00:47:25So nobody wants to go to dinner with them.

00:47:27No, literally.

00:47:27But then every time they'd ask you out for dinner, they're like, we're not trying to kill you.

00:47:31We just want to get dinner.

00:47:32We just want to like talk about.

00:47:34We just like you.

00:47:35But for me on a very real level, because I started so green and was so incredibly grateful

00:47:45to be employed, I just assumed that every, you know, imposter syndrome times a million.

00:47:52Like I just assumed that every time I was going to read the script that I was going to

00:47:56be written off because I was just crap.

00:47:58And that they had had enough.

00:48:00And that this time was the last time.

00:48:01And so I was every single season and genuinely until like the last season where you're like,

00:48:05oh wow.

00:48:06Still here.

00:48:06I did the whole, that's good.

00:48:08Nice, nice.

00:48:09Do you ask questions?

00:48:10Do you ask where it's going?

00:48:12And how much are you then told?

00:48:15They really don't give anything away.

00:48:17Does that help you?

00:48:18So yeah, I don't like to live season, you know, in anything other than the season that

00:48:23I'm in because with Daenerys, she really has evolved so much and she's grown so much.

00:48:29And every season, there's something new that happens.

00:48:31So it does feel like a new character.

00:48:33I'm very, very, very lucky in that sense to have lived with a character for 10 years,

00:48:37but she's, we've grown together.

00:48:38So I have to just deal with what I'm dealing with in the moment.

00:48:42You are my queen.

00:48:43I don't know what else I can say.

00:48:44You can say nothing to anyone ever.

00:48:48Never tell them who you really are.

00:48:50Swear your brother and Samuel Tali to secrecy until no one else.

00:48:54Or it will take on a life of its own and you won't be able to control it or what it does to people.

00:48:58No matter how many times you bend the knee, no matter what you swear.

00:49:04I think they very quickly started to write for each individual actor.

00:49:08But with me, they, I think they definitely, you start to see in the stage directions,

00:49:12like they're complete goofballs.

00:49:13So most of the stage directions are like ridiculous and very funny and like mention really rude things.

00:49:19I can't say.

00:49:20Daenerys farts.

00:49:21Just like a lot of like in jokes about like, you know, and then Jon Snow's hair glistens in the sun.

00:49:29Like we know it will.

00:49:30Like the Pantene advert.

00:49:31All that kind of nonsense.

00:49:32But yeah, so they started writing for us very much.

00:49:36And I think they knew that whatever kind of stoic sort of cold sensibilities they might be writing down,

00:49:45that I was going to try and bring a bit more warmth and a bit more kind of humanity to her where I possibly could.

00:49:51And that was always a conversation we were always having.

00:49:53And every season I would go off and do something else on hiatus, come back and be like, what's up?

00:49:57Yeah, she's going to sit like this.

00:49:58This is how she's going to.

00:49:59And every time they're like, that's really cute, but stand up straight and don't smile and you're not funny.

00:50:05And let's just.

00:50:06Let's do this.

00:50:06So you have to keep kind of bringing it back into like the parameters that I myself set up.

00:50:12Sure.

00:50:13But just set up real young.

00:50:15So yeah, perfect posture being one of them, which can be really annoying.

00:50:18And you obviously, you have the comic books.

00:50:20So there is source material there.

00:50:22But I am curious, what kinds of questions are you asking?

00:50:25And how is it informing you?

00:50:26Oh, I'm a pain in the ass.

00:50:27I'm a total pain in the ass.

00:50:28What does that mean?

00:50:29Well, because I mean, I'm all up in it.

00:50:31Like, you know, I'm the one who like, when I really want to know or I really want to collaborate,

00:50:34I really want to think about something with that mic, I have the conversation.

00:50:37We get on the phone.

00:50:38I chat it out.

00:50:39I'm like, so I think it's trying to do this.

00:50:40But what about, you know what I mean?

00:50:41I'm not pushing the whole story to another place.

00:50:43But I'm just, I'm trying to, in my head, in my pretentious mind,

00:50:47I'm trying to help them accomplish what they're proposing.

00:50:49How much of that is you are a playwright?

00:50:51You are somebody who is used to also being the person who's crafting the story.

00:50:56Right.

00:50:57And they're so awesome.

00:50:58Like, I've had such an amazing opportunity and experience working on this show for the last seven years.

00:51:02And it really is family.

00:51:05And so the showrunners have been, I've worked with, of course, Scott Gimple and now Angela Kang.

00:51:11And they're, you know, she was there also the entire time.

00:51:13And so it's, they're family to me, you know, so I can really talk to them and really hash things out

00:51:18and give ideas and thoughts and, and, and not necessarily ideas so much.

00:51:23I was about to say, yes.

00:51:24Thoughts.

00:51:25Thoughts.

00:51:25I mean, ideas are theirs.

00:51:26And sometimes they're like, yeah, discuss that with the writer.

00:51:28Like, you know, there's, there's, and I think as time goes on, as Amelia's saying, there's, there's,

00:51:32um, you get more and more able to do that.

00:51:35They understand you, you, you're living in her.

00:51:38She's living in you at this point.

00:51:39So we're, we're, we're totally, the collaboration becomes more and more, uh, full.

00:51:44You're my mom.

00:51:46You chose to be.

00:51:50Because you love me and I love you.

00:51:52I do.

00:51:53And loving someone means doing whatever it takes to keep them safe, right?

00:51:57But when did we stop loving Carol and Maggie, Carol, the king?

00:52:11We, we didn't.

00:52:14I'm curious.

00:52:15Both of you have done huge franchises, film franchises and huge, these huge television franchises.

00:52:20How do the fans differ?

00:52:23The experience and the relationship with fans.

00:52:25How does that differ?

00:52:26Regardless of what movie I'm on, I only get asked about Game of Thrones.

00:52:29Only.

00:52:30Yeah, when you're on Star Wars and Star Wars are like, that's not okay.

00:52:34And I'm like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not mentioning it.

00:52:36I didn't say anything about dragons, dragons.

00:52:38But, um, but yeah, it can be, uh, Game of Thrones fans are very, um, in, it's a, it's a,

00:52:44it's a beast into, there's, and I'm, and I'm, and I am indebted to them and bonded with them.

00:52:51In a way that I will never, no other job I ever do will touch that.

00:52:54Well, I don't know, I don't know how you move on from that.

00:52:57Like, those guys are my people.

00:52:57They're my people.

00:52:58I like that.

00:52:59What about your experience?

00:52:59You've got the Marvel audience, you've got the Black Panther, I mean, all these different things.

00:53:04Um, Okoye is, um, she's, she's leveling with, with Michonne, I think.

00:53:09It's, it's definitely like, you know, things, you know, when you're asked to sign things, it's kind of.

00:53:12Oh, yeah, which one is it?

00:53:13It's, it's, it's, they're kind of, they're kind of, I never, it's kind of a 50-60.

00:53:16That's a pretty cool place to be.

00:53:18Um, yeah, um, sometimes one tops the other.

00:53:20You just, I, I never know.

00:53:22It's unpredictable.

00:53:22And you can't see, even know who's coming and like, ooh, I think you're gonna be.

00:53:25No, no.

00:53:26No.

00:53:26Sometimes they have both, you know?

00:53:28Yeah.

00:53:29Oh, yeah.

00:53:30Um, Amelia, you wrote recently a wildly powerful, devastating piece, um, an essay about sort of what you were going through,

00:53:40that the world didn't know you were going through.

00:53:42Mm-hmm.

00:53:43Um, I'm curious, what got you to the place where you said, I'm willing to share, you know, I'm ready to share this with the world?

00:53:51Yeah.

00:53:51Yeah, like two weeks before I did, I was like, I'm not ready to share this with the world.

00:53:54Why did you decide you were ready?

00:53:55I've already said.

00:53:56Um, because I've been working on a charity for about five years.

00:53:59Uh-huh.

00:53:59So, I, um, basically with the first, so I had two brain hemorrhages.

00:54:04Um, with the first one, I, uh, it started off as like, I want to make a, um, a sofa for the family room.

00:54:09Because every time my parents would come in from, from like, chilling in the room, which obviously they ended up spending night and day in,

00:54:16they'd all come in like, oh, like they really hurt themselves or they're like got a crick in their neck.

00:54:20And I'm like, we need to get a new sofa in there.

00:54:22We need to get a new, a new couch in there.

00:54:23And it started as that.

00:54:24And then like, how can we build it?

00:54:25How can we build it?

00:54:26And then it became a kind of mission.

00:54:28Uh, and it just took me a really long time to narrow down my point of focus as to what I felt like I could do to help.

00:54:34Um, because, um, surviving the first one, anyone who's survived anything that's, um, where you, you know, you should have died,

00:54:40um, you feel it's sort of responsibility.

00:54:43At least I do.

00:54:45And so in starting this, in, in building this charity that I've been building for a while and in, and in trying to figure out what it is,

00:54:52I went through a phase where I was having a tough time with doing lots of press.

00:54:57And I don't know if you guys have felt that it's at any point in your life where you just feel, I, I don't think I can be seen anymore.

00:55:03I'm, I, I'm drowning in this.

00:55:06I feel anxiety and it's, and it's too much and I can't handle it.

00:55:10And in that moment I was like, I can't tell my story.

00:55:13And we were going to do this huge partnership with HBO, Richard Platt, the dream boat that he is, was going to do so much.

00:55:19It was going to be amazing.

00:55:20And then suddenly I was like, ah, I can't, it's way too much.

00:55:24I can't, I'm not ready for that.

00:55:25I don't feel safe.

00:55:26I don't feel safe in this environment when people are like, Hey, talk about your tits.

00:55:29And you're like, no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to give that to you.

00:55:32Cause this is my experience and I want to help people.

00:55:34I don't want to make anything sensational.

00:55:36I don't want anyone to turn around and be like, Oh, another celebrity sob story.

00:55:40Like right.

00:55:41Um, and so I really wanted to keep the integrity of it.

00:55:44And then it took some time and then we finished the show and all of these things happened.

00:55:48And then one day I woke up and was just like, I have to, I have to say this.

00:55:53Cause I can't help people.

00:55:54If I don't, um, you know, like, Oh, so you're starting a brain injury charity.

00:55:58Why?

00:55:58I don't know.

00:55:59It just sounds like a good idea.

00:56:01Like it seemed like an area that was, I just was intrigued.

00:56:03How much of, of that experience sort of informed how you not only went through life,

00:56:08but also how you approached the character and the strength that it required.

00:56:13I mean, you talk about drinking more for a number of years.

00:56:16Every time anyone's like, where'd you get your strength from?

00:56:18I'm like, I just, heavens, no idea, no idea.

00:56:21Really idyllic childhood.

00:56:22Um, yeah, so she, she and I grew together, but she absolutely, it's corny as hell, but

00:56:28she saved my life because the, um, the, the main things that happen after you've had

00:56:34a brain injury universally, obviously paralysis and, and all of that aside is, um, you have

00:56:40fatigue, which is, it sounds like a fancy way of saying you're tired and it's not, it's

00:56:45debilitating to the point of just, it's just so demoralizing, especially as a young person

00:56:52when you're like, what, why can I not get off the sofa?

00:56:56This is ridiculous.

00:56:57I feel lazy.

00:56:58I feel all these things.

00:56:58Um, and so feeling that and feeling again, when you've had, especially with the second

00:57:04one, cause the first one was non-invasive.

00:57:06So they went up through, through a major artery in my groin and went up through my brain and

00:57:11fixed it that way.

00:57:12But the second one, they, it went wrong in surgery.

00:57:14So they had to, it was preventative surgery that went wrong.

00:57:17So they had to crack my head open and, um, and do it that way.

00:57:20And when you have a brain trauma, I can't, it's, you're just, you know, like if you broke

00:57:25your leg, you're like, Hey, watch the leg.

00:57:27Yep.

00:57:28It's broken.

00:57:29This is a fragile thing right here.

00:57:30When it's your, first of all, when it's just on a physical level,

00:57:34your, your skull, your face, I kept hitting my head, which is really annoying, but you

00:57:40get very like, and then as soon as you see that that is something you want to be protecting,

00:57:46you can't look someone in the eye because it's somehow it brings up shame.

00:57:51I don't know how, but it is such a, um, you just get so protective and so scared and you

00:57:58think so little of yourself because you're constantly not wanting to anyone to be anywhere

00:58:02near you.

00:58:03And that can be just, you know, people who, who do not get the help and do not have the

00:58:08mother of dragons to walk the shoes to walk into to kind of help you get out of it.

00:58:12Those, um, those are the people I speak to that I'm speaking to the most with this charity

00:58:16for, for, um, aftercare.

00:58:18But for me, I was, I was able to then get up and the show must go on.

00:58:23And so you get back in those shoes and then, you know, Khaleesi's like killing all the

00:58:27masters.

00:58:28She's like speaking to 300 people in a language that is not real.

00:58:32She's, um, you know, literally killing people with flames, um, you know, having sex with

00:58:38Kit Harington, all sorts.

00:58:40And it just, um, it just literally forced me awake again and forced me to look someone

00:58:45in the eye because I had to.

00:58:47I love that.

00:58:47And that kind of, yeah, so that was, so that's kind of, it's been, um, an unbelievable blessing

00:58:54in a really, really crazy way.

00:58:56I mean, I'm so lucky that I have all of my cognitive skills and I've just missed, I've

00:59:00just, there's a bit of my brain that's died and we don't know what it is.

00:59:02And it's probably my taste of mine.

00:59:04I want to touch on the act, uh, really quickly.

00:59:07Um, I believe I heard you say this is one where your children said, oh, don't, don't take

00:59:12this, uh, don't take this role.

00:59:14Um, why and what made you say, I got to do this?

00:59:17Well, it's based on this story, uh, of Dee Dee and Gypsy Blanchard and Dee Dee has

00:59:23Munchausen by proxy.

00:59:24So she's having her daughter treated for all these medical conditions she doesn't have.

00:59:29So I told my kids, oh, you know, I might do this story.

00:59:32It's about Dee Dee and Gypsy Blanchard and they'd both seen the documentary.

00:59:36No, don't do it.

00:59:37Mom, don't do it, please.

00:59:39I'm like, you guys know I'm an actor.

00:59:43I'm not the kind of person who comes home like, take your medicine.

00:59:47I'm kind of thinking, they're like, it's just so scary.

00:59:52And it is.

00:59:53Yep.

00:59:53Because I think you can build a lot to give birth.

00:59:56Your teeth go, your eyes get worse.

00:59:59It's physically difficult.

01:00:00And nature's built it so that you would die for your child.

01:00:04Mm-hmm.

01:00:04And you would do anything to avoid their pain.

01:00:07And that's natural.

01:00:09And when a parent is the opposite or would inflict pain on their child, it feels like such a perversion

01:00:16of our natural self.

01:00:18Sure.

01:00:19And that's, that was weird.

01:00:20I mean, I was very clear with myself.

01:00:22Like, you are leaving Deedee at work every day.

01:00:26Like, everything about her.

01:00:31Girls wear makeup, Mom.

01:00:33You're not like other girls.

01:00:38Oh, sweet pea.

01:00:41I know sometimes you want to be like everybody else.

01:00:44But you know what?

01:00:47I like you special.

01:00:50We're going to end on some questions that I'm hoping everyone can answer.

01:00:54And we're going to move as quickly on this.

01:00:56But the first one is hoping you guys can complete this sentence.

01:01:01I act because.

01:01:04Why do you do this?

01:01:05What drives you to do this?

01:01:08It just came to me early on.

01:01:11My grandmother and my grandparents were Polish actors in Buffalo at the Polish American Theater.

01:01:18So I grew up around flamboyant personalities and music and expressivity.

01:01:26And it seemed like a wonderful playground.

01:01:28And I still feel that way.

01:01:30I still feel that's where my playful self, my open self.

01:01:33Because I think, like a lot of actors, I think I'm naturally shy.

01:01:37Shy, but I play characters that are not shy.

01:01:41And that's been very liberating.

01:01:44I've loved the journeys my characters have taken me on.

01:01:47I'd never be that one.

01:01:49I never presume.

01:01:50We're twins. We're shy, too.

01:01:51Can y'all sit down?

01:01:52Yeah.

01:01:53And look at us.

01:01:53Yeah.

01:01:56Well, my siblings say, they're all older than me, that, you know, in the backyard where I grew up in Zimbabwe,

01:02:02I would walk around imitating Alexis Colby.

01:02:05So they said either she's crazy or she's an actor.

01:02:09Maybe both.

01:02:10But I think the interesting thing is I'm actually in an interesting moment for that question.

01:02:17Because I was just being asked that by some of my more acting bosses.

01:02:20Because I'm creating a show right now.

01:02:24I have a team of writers and I step in this room and I'm like, well, it's a miniseries, to be specific.

01:02:30Still a show.

01:02:31Yeah.

01:02:32Mini show.

01:02:34And it's like, they're looking at me like, okay.

01:02:38You ain't never done this before.

01:02:40I'm like, no, but, yeah, thankfully I have amazing mentors and teachers.

01:02:45I have a bat phone named Scott Gimple.

01:02:47And, you know, and I've been wanting to do this for a long time.

01:02:50And so it's such an interesting moment because I just got asked that, like, so which one do you like better?

01:02:55Do you have an answer?

01:02:55You know, sometimes I don't.

01:02:59Because when I, as I created, well, created, as I was growing up in Zimbabwe, I was part of like a storytelling type process where you just sort of created and you acted and you created and you acted and they kind of went back and forth.

01:03:11You never kind of, they were never separate.

01:03:13So as I grew into the field, they separated.

01:03:16They had to.

01:03:17Yeah.

01:03:18But, you know, they just, they both complement each other in my head.

01:03:23Though I do look forward to rolling out of bed and putting on a skull cap and sitting on set with a big pair of things and just mumbling stuff in someone's ear and not going into hair and makeup.

01:03:34But I love to act.

01:03:35Yeah, you do.

01:03:35For the record, I love to act.

01:03:37I love it.

01:03:37But I do look forward to the other side of it.

01:03:39Mm-hmm.

01:03:40It's going to be so delicious.

01:03:41Oh, you're right.

01:03:42I'm telling you.

01:03:43All right.

01:03:43This is hopefully a fun one.

01:03:45The last time I fan, present company excluded, the last time I fangirled on somebody was.

01:03:52Well, let me just say, I don't know how you can ever not fangirl over Oprah.

01:03:57I just don't know how you cannot.

01:03:58I don't lay out.

01:03:59And I got a call from her office.

01:04:02I just recently got a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

01:04:05And then, oh, thank y'all.

01:04:07Yeah.

01:04:07And then she texted me after she saw When They See Us.

01:04:14And I was walking around all day with my phone.

01:04:16I'm just going to reread that.

01:04:17What does an Oprah text say?

01:04:20Girl!

01:04:22Bravo!

01:04:23With a whole bunch.

01:04:24Hey, Oprah, you was clapping emojis.

01:04:27Wow.

01:04:28Of course she does.

01:04:28She said, strip down realness.

01:04:30Yes.

01:04:31And then the hand clap.

01:04:33I was like, come on, Auntie O.

01:04:35That's awesome.

01:04:35That's good.

01:04:36That's really good.

01:04:38What about you guys?

01:04:39Lin-Manuel Miranda.

01:04:40Yeah?

01:04:40Yeah.

01:04:41Who's a producer on your show.

01:04:42Yeah, which is uncomfortable for him.

01:04:45The first time I ever met, you know, Hamilton's like a really big deal in our household.

01:04:49And we were seated across from each other at something.

01:04:52And when I saw it was him, I just screamed.

01:04:56And I asked for pictures and like videos.

01:04:58And if he could like come over into like another area with me where it was quieter.

01:05:02And if he could like, it just like came over me.

01:05:04I didn't know.

01:05:05It just was so, well, you can get something for like kids in your life.

01:05:09You're like, I'm sorry, but I lose like all decor.

01:05:12I'm like, I need this for like this 12-year-old and this 12-year-old and this 12-year-old.

01:05:17So, yeah.

01:05:19But I've settled.

01:05:20I've settled now.

01:05:21I love it.

01:05:22What did anyone else have one?

01:05:24Oh, I had one just the other day.

01:05:25I did the Today Show and I found out that Sting was in the green room.

01:05:29Oh.

01:05:29Yeah.

01:05:30Going to be the next guest after me.

01:05:33And I turned into like a teenager.

01:05:36I mean, he's just so hot.

01:05:37And then I approached him in the green room feeling, I'm like, hi, my name is Christine.

01:05:43I'm just such a fan.

01:05:44I felt so stupid.

01:05:46But it was real.

01:05:47It's wonderful when you kind of get to that.

01:05:51Yeah.

01:05:51You still get to be that little girl inside.

01:05:54Yeah.

01:05:54Sure.

01:05:55Sexy.

01:05:56Oh, my God.

01:05:56I recently met Glenn Close.

01:05:57And there were photographers present for all of my like, oh, God.

01:06:01I don't know how to.

01:06:02Oh, my God.

01:06:03I love her so much.

01:06:04And the wife like blew me away.

01:06:05And I just think she's magnificent.

01:06:07And then obviously in real life, she was completely magnificent and just wonderful and brilliant.

01:06:12And yeah.

01:06:12I love it.

01:06:13Yeah.

01:06:13Do you guys have one?

01:06:15I would say, oh, there have been so many lately.

01:06:17But I would say Cicely Tyson.

01:06:20Oh, my God.

01:06:21Meeting her.

01:06:22I met her a few times now, but every single time it's like.

01:06:24Like drool coming out of your mouth.

01:06:26Yeah.

01:06:26I'll turn on a little something.

01:06:27I have a condo in Atlanta and the only thing on the wall is just a massive picture of her.

01:06:33And like, you know, black and white.

01:06:35And it's just like when she was, you know, she was like, you know, maybe she was she was middle aged.

01:06:40And I think there's something so beautiful about that time.

01:06:42Like, you know, it's like the idea that that's something we're supposed to be frightened of or the longevity idea in this industry is so like there is none for women.

01:06:50And that idea that gets fed to us and just looking at her every day reminds me that, you know, my journey as an artist is long.

01:06:57Love that.

01:06:58The last one.

01:06:59Love that.

01:07:00I have shivers from that.

01:07:03I did just go to Coachella.

01:07:06I did.

01:07:06It is a mom.

01:07:08I love it.

01:07:09Yeah.

01:07:09Big for my daughter.

01:07:11I brought her.