- 4 hours ago
A heated debate unfolds over the history of the Somnath Temple, sparked by the Prime Minister's recent comments. BJP National Spokesperson, Sanju Verma, argues that Jawaharlal Nehru showed 'deep contempt, Nehru showed disdain for Hinduism', citing a 1951 letter to Dr. Rajendra Prasad regarding the temple's inauguration. Countering this, Congress National Spokesperson, Dishant Rawal, defends Nehru's secular approach during a sensitive post-partition era and claims it was Mahatma Gandhi who advised against using government funds for the temple's reconstruction. Adding a scholarly perspective, historian Dr. Ravi Bhatt suggests that Indian history as taught in schools often focuses on disappointments and that there is 'plenty of room to refresh' the narrative by including multiple perspectives, including those of Persian historians, to create a more balanced view.
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00:01And joining us in this debate is Dr. Raveed Bhatt, who's an historian, and he's joining us from Lucknow, and also Sanju Verma, National Spokesperson of the BJP.
00:11Dishant Rawal, he's the National Spokesperson for the Congress.
00:15Thank you very much, all of you, for joining in.
00:18Let me begin with you, Sanju Verma.
00:20The claim that is made by the Prime Minister on whitewashing of the attacks on Somnath, its history, its significance.
00:29Can you tell us how exactly is this targeted towards Nehru and the political parties?
00:37Thank you for having me over, Ranjali.
00:40You know, let me start with Nehru's letter written on the 2nd of March, 1951, where he writes to the then-president Dr. Rajendra Prasad, and I'm quoting ad verbatim from that letter.
00:52I confess, dear Rajendra Babu, that I do not like the idea of your associating yourself with the spectacular opening of the Somnath Temple, blah, blah, blah.
01:01I wish you would not associate yourself with this function because it reeks of Hindu revivalism and the many other, you know, things were said which are irrelevant to the debate.
01:11But the moot point is, Nehru showed deep contempt, Nehru showed disdain for Hinduism.
01:19And this is clearly, you know, evidence from the letter he wrote to Rajendra Prasad.
01:23And don't forget, Anjali, that in 1949, Pandit Nehru had even written a letter to the then-chief minister of the United Provinces, now called modern-day Uttar Pradesh,
01:33asking Govind Wallakpans to remove the Ram Lala idols outside the Ram Janma Bhumi site.
01:40Okay, let's come back to Somnath, Ms. Verma.
01:43Let's finish about Somnath.
01:45No, let's stay about, yes, stay on the issue of Somnath.
01:48Yes.
01:49Okay.
01:50Coming to Somnath specifically, you know, let's get this very clear.
01:54Congress Party has never once admitted that, yes, Somnath Temple, which was razed to the ground by Mahmoud Ghazni, by Muzaffar Shah, by Nalauddin Khilji, by Aurangzeb.
02:08Finally, the rejuvenation of Somnath Temple and celebrating the thousand-year legacy of Somnath.
02:16That has been done by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, not only in his capacity as the Prime Minister of India.
02:20But one could argue that Nehru was trying to be secular and keeping the situation of India in mind, trying to build its whole, you know, India was trying to rise in the world order.
02:34He was trying to portray a secular image.
02:38Can I just finish, Anjali?
02:39Yes.
02:40You're absolutely right.
02:41If you have to play the devil's advocate, when I say you, I mean anybody who wants to say that, no, Somnath inauguration was spoken of as
02:49reeking of Hindu revivalism, had nothing to do with Nehru's contempt for Hindus, but it had everything to do with Nehru's love for secularism.
02:58I completely disagree.
03:00That is precisely, I would say, be it Nehru's letter to Netaji Boas in 1937 clearly saying, let's remove these tanzas of Vande Matram because they have a reference to Maa Durga.
03:12And this will, you know, this will provoke the Muslim community.
03:17I mean, he said it in as many words.
03:19He again wrote a letter in 1949 to God of Allah.
03:21Again, we are moving to another issue.
03:23Let's quickly bring in Mr. Rawal also here.
03:28You know, one question one could ask, you know, it was all about the revival.
03:34One may say that Nehru thought that this was probably a revival of extreme Hinduism, but we have seen states getting involved in inauguration of religious or reopening of religious monuments.
03:47We have seen that happen in France itself.
03:50We consider it an extremely secular state, but we have seen Emmanuel Macron becoming part of the reopening of Notre Dame.
03:57So, one can question whether Nehru, Nehruji actually had no love lost for Somnath or was it just about being secular?
04:09Anjali, first of all, Har Har Mahadev and Jai Somnath to all the viewers of India today.
04:15I would like to pray tribute to those who fight since many years to save our temple, to save the legacy of Mahadev.
04:25I would like to pay tribute to, first of all, Hamilji Gohilji, who was the youngest prince.
04:32I would like to pay tribute to Vegrajee Bill, the tribal leader.
04:36And I would like to pay tribute to those Brahmins, thousands of Brahmins who tried to save Somnath due to these attackers.
04:44Now, the second point.
04:46If you know, Somnath was in the territory of Junagad state at that time.
04:51Now, the district has been changed because I am from the same state.
04:54But at the time of partition, Junagad did not decide to go with India.
05:02Junagad decided to stay alone or go with the Pakistan.
05:06But due to Nehruji's policy, due to Sardar Patil, Sardar Patilji's policy, due to Indian National Congress's first government in India,
05:14we successfully got Junagad back to our land.
05:18And that's why Somnath is with us now.
05:21Listen me carefully.
05:23Listen me carefully.
05:24Be indisciplined.
05:25Be indisciplined.
05:26Miss Varma, be indisciplined.
05:29Be indisciplined.
05:29Miss Varma, let him finish his...
05:31Be indisciplined.
05:32Miss Varma, let him finish his argument.
05:35I know you are not ready to listen fact.
05:37Okay.
05:37Mr. Rahul, make it brief and precise.
05:40Yeah, yeah, yeah.
05:41Come to the point, Anjali.
05:42This is very important part.
05:43This was very important part.
05:45And just because of that, Somnath is in the land of India.
05:49Now, in November 1947, Junagad, we got the Junagad back.
05:5612th November 1947, Sabdar Patilji first time announced that Indian National Congress late government of India will rebuild Somnath.
06:06December 1947, the union cabinet under PM Nehruji, they have signed the documentary that we are going to rebuild.
06:15Listen me carefully.
06:17Miss Varma, you have to be indisciplined.
06:19I know you are from indisciplined party.
06:21I know you are from indisciplined and I know you are from the line party.
06:25You know, I'll quickly, Miss Varma and Mr. Rahul, I'm sorry, I'm just going to quickly now shut down this argument that you are having.
06:34In December 1947, Anjali, it's very important.
06:36You are not being brief, Mr. Rahul, you have to get to your point quickly.
06:40Just one second.
06:41In 1947, union cabinet under Prime Minister Nehruji passed the bill to rebuild Somnath.
06:46But Mahatma Gandhi ji advised to Nehruji and Sardar Patil ji and Munshi ji that we should not use government money.
06:55We required less funding for the health issues, for the education issues, for the technological issues.
07:02So it was Gandhiji who decided not to rebuild, reconstruct Somnath.
07:08Mr. Rahul, you are shifting blame.
07:11This is quite surprising because I would say you are shifting blame.
07:16No, no, no, no, not at all.
07:17If you take blame, if you take blame and shift it somewhere, you are accepting blame.
07:20No, no, no, no, Anjali, Anjali, I do have Munshi ji's later communication with Nehruji.
07:27He clearly mentioned when Junagad fell, Sardar Patil as Deputy Prime Minister,
07:32pledged the government of India to the reconstruction of historical temple Somnath.
07:36The cabinet Jawaharlal Nehru decided to reconstruct the temple of government cost.
07:42But Gandhiji, Gandhiji and Munshi Sardar not to help this temple be constructed a government cost.
07:48Because I understand what you are trying to say.
07:51But I will let Ms. Verma, Ms. Verma, I will come back to you because also Dr. Bhatt is with us.
07:57Let's quickly bring him in here.
07:58Just five seconds, please.
07:59I have given you enough time.
08:01I have given you, I will come back to you.
08:02In my second slot, please, please cut down my time.
08:05In my second slot, I don't need time.
08:06Okay, okay, take your ten seconds, please.
08:08Yeah, Anjali, Anjali, but the thing is, just because of this first government of India,
08:14Nehruji and Sardar Patil ji and Munshi ji ideology, they created a trust.
08:18And they asked people to fund it.
08:21And because of that trust, Munshi ji was the first president of that trust.
08:25Somnath temple was reconstructed.
08:28Okay, okay, Mr. Rawal, but there was some apprehension on part of Nehruji,
08:34which is clear from all the letters that we read.
08:36We will be coming back to you for that.
08:38Now, let's go across to Dr. Bhatt.
08:40Dr. Bhatt, the blame is also coming on the historians.
08:44Prime Minister says that the history of Somnath has been whitewashed.
08:49Is that true?
08:50Are we as Indians not hearing the right or reading or studying the proper research,
08:56true history of Somnath?
08:58Anjali, you know, the problem crops up when people start defining the historical events
09:07in their own personal interest.
09:09The interest can be anything.
09:11And this is not happening right now.
09:13It has happened always from time since immemorial.
09:16It is simply like anything has different, you know, the angles.
09:21Here I would like to tell you the best part is that if you want to know what exactly the
09:25history is.
09:26So if you are reading the history of only the historians of one side, because, you know,
09:32when historians write, they are also human beings.
09:34And their set of values, the person who the historian, when he is writing, that also influences his history.
09:42So, I mean, a very rough example is that if we read the history, if we read about the 1857.
09:49So, you know, if you read a history historian, they will always dismiss his as a support meeting or something very small.
09:56If you read the Indian side, they will say it was the first war of independence.
10:01And as a historian, if you ask me, as an independent, I will call it the uprising of 1857.
10:07But there are very few people.
10:09So, when we talk about the attacks and destruction of the Thoma Temple, we should not only read
10:18the Indian historian, we should also read the historians of the Persian historians also,
10:23Turko-Pershian historians.
10:24I would like to give you an example, like Al-Birni is there.
10:28Then after Firdausi is there, who has written the Shah Nama, then after that...
10:33But that I understand, Dr. Bhatt, you are talking about, here, you are talking about an individual
10:40with an educated mind going and researching.
10:43But what the Prime Minister is probably referring to is the fact that how it is taught in our text books.
10:50How common man or child is exposed to the history of Somnath Temple, that he feels is whitewashed.
10:58See, the word, I will not use the whitewash, but I think there is always a room what was
11:04being taught about the Somnath Temple.
11:07And there is plenty of a room to research on it and bring the further about it, what exactly
11:15it is like.
11:16Because if you are not regularly researching it, then the information which you have, that
11:20becomes stagnant.
11:21Okay, we can bring in more perspectives, you feel, more perspectives into the history books,
11:26not just keep only one historian's perspective when we teach important issues like that.
11:31You are 100% and here, I would like to add one thing more.
11:36That is, that's my personal view.
11:38You can agree with me or you can disagree with me.
11:40That is, that the Indian history, which is being taught in India, unfortunately, that's the history
11:47of only disappointments.
11:49You know, it's always, you know, you read that Indians, they have been very submissive,
11:56they couldn't defend themselves.
11:58See, I can understand that, you know, there are reverses and there are victories.
12:03But then there should be some balance of it.
12:06Okay, you feel that India's glorious moments are not being taught enough.
12:10Let's quickly bring in other people also in this conversation.
12:13Yes, sir.
12:13Ms. Varma, you have been trying to make a point for a fairly long time.
12:16Please go ahead.
12:18You know, Anjali, my only request to you is, I saw that the Congress spokesperson spoke at
12:24length on Junagar, which is not the topic at hand.
12:27I need my time without being rejected.
12:29I'll quickly finish.
12:30First and foremost, let's get one thing very, very clear.
12:35Be it the consecration of Lord Ram at the Pran Pratishtha ceremony at the, you know, Ramjanma
12:41Bhoomi Temple in Ayodhya.
12:44Be it shine aloft the Dharma Dhoja on atop the Ram Temple.
12:50Be it Amit Shah paying Obisans in Kerala at the Shri Padmanabha Swami Temple.
12:55Be it Prime Minister Narendra Modi, rejuvenating the Ujjain Mahakal Corridor.
13:02Be it rebuilding the Kashi Vishwanath Corridor.
13:05Who has done this?
13:07You know, proudly wearing his Hindu identity on his sleeves.
13:12It is a man called Narendra Modi.
13:14Prior to 2014, I don't know about others.
13:17I remember many of us were scared to say that we are proud Hindus.
13:22Putting Viputi on your head, wearing a Kalawa, showing your Janayu.
13:27These were considered as being communal symbols.
13:31Today, I can proudly say I'm a Sanatani.
13:34I belong to Hindu dharma.
13:35And I'm so glad Narendra Modi has decided to be an unapologetic Hindu,
13:41wearing his proud Hindu identity on his sleeve,
13:44which Nehru never did, Indira Gandhi never did, Rajiv Gandhi never did,
13:49Manmohan Singh never did, Rahul Gandhi does not do.
13:51But isn't that a personal choice?
13:54Ms. Varma, isn't that a personal choice?
13:57I do not wear, if I do not wear anything that signifies my religion,
14:01isn't that my personal choice?
14:03Very nice question there, Anjali.
14:05You're absolutely right about personal choice.
14:08But it is not a personal choice when the Congress Party files an appeal
14:13in the Supreme Court saying,
14:15Prabhu Ram toh the he nahi.
14:18This is a figment of the imagination of people.
14:20It is not a matter of personal choice when the Congress Party files a petition
14:25in the Supreme Court saying,
14:27Ram Sethu toh kabhi tha hi nahi.
14:29It is not a matter of personal choice when Nehru shoots off letters to Rajivinder Prasad
14:34saying Somnath Temple reeks of Hindu revivalism.
14:39I mean, have you seen a sitting Prime Minister show so much contempt to a country
14:43where more than 80% of the population is Hindus?
14:48Tell me one thing.
14:49You know, Anjali, last five seconds.
14:50Beat George Washington, beat Donald Trump, beat Abraham Lincoln, beat Joe Biden, anyone for that matter.
14:58When they proudly take an oath on the Bible.
15:01We don't say that they are radical Christians.
15:05We should say, wajibha, yee kikme secular hain.
15:07But when Prime Minister Narendra Modi decides to take part in the shawriya yatra,
15:13the same Congress, Darbari Ecosystem says,
15:16Narendra Modi ne toh sab kuch is country mei communalize kar diya hai.
15:20What is soft for the good should be soft for the gander as well.
15:24And it's high time the Congress wakes up and smells the coffee.
15:28You guys are anti-Hindu.
15:30That is the reason you've lost three Lok Sabha elections in a row.
15:33People can see through your facade.
15:35People can see through your charade.
15:37Okay, Ms. Verma, let me take that question now to Mr. Rawal.
15:40I do want to add something over here.
15:42Maybe sometimes Congress and Mr. Nehru could be accused of sometimes trampling over the hearts
15:49and sentiments of Hindus in trying to maintain that secular line that he always followed.
15:54Those were his idols.
15:55He kept them atop pedestals.
15:58But is it possible sometimes he trampled the sentiments of the majority of the country?
16:04Anjali, you are talking about the sentiments of the Sanatanis and Hindu, right?
16:11About the Nehruji you said.
16:13Now, let me know one thing.
16:15Who are the maximum students studying in IIT right now?
16:19Who are the maximum students from which community studying in IIM right now?
16:24Which officers are doing their jobs in DRDO right now?
16:29Which community?
16:30Ms. Verma, Ms. Verma, I don't need to.
16:33I don't need your certificate.
16:35I don't need your certificate.
16:36Ms. Verma, let me finish his argument.
16:39He gave you your time.
16:40He gave you your time.
16:40He gave you your time.
16:43Apart from that little chuckle that he had let out.
16:45He gave you your time, Ms. Verma.
16:47Ms. Verma, Ram is the cut here.
16:49Sanju Verma, you have to give the time to Nishant Rawal.
16:55He gave you your time.
16:56You people are fake in those.
16:58You people are fake in those.
17:00Now, you know, this is the problem.
17:03Now, the argument is not audible.
17:08Sanju Verma, I request you.
17:10Sanju Verma, I request you.
17:12You asked for your time.
17:14We gave you your time.
17:15Now, you have to stay quiet and let the other side also speak.
17:20I'm sorry.
17:23Sanju Verma, I am begging you.
17:25I am requesting you.
17:27You don't have single sign of our government.
17:30You don't have single sign of our government.
17:33You people are fake in those.
17:35You are just saying.
17:36Ms. Verma, Ms. Verma, Ms. Verma.
17:39Sanju Verma, I am begging you.
17:42You have to let the other person also speak.
17:44This is not a debate otherwise.
17:47This is not a debate.
17:48Please, Ms. Verma.
17:50Anjali.
17:51Anjali.
17:51Yes, please continue.
17:52Anjali, under the name of Kashi Vishwanath Corridor,
17:57these fake Hindus and fake Hinduism party, BJP,
18:01they have destroyed 200 to 300 temples.
18:04One temple was 15 years old.
18:06One was 2,000 years old.
18:08And that is not my statement or Congress statement.
18:10This is the statement of Saraswati Ji, Sankaracharya Ji.
18:13And he was very angry on that.
18:17All the Murtis being spent to the garbage.
18:23This is the policy of BJP.
18:26Now I come to the point.
18:27You asked me a very simple question about Nehruji.
18:31Nehruji's connection with Hindus, right?
18:33Nehruji was Kashmiri Pandit.
18:35He always respected Somna Temple.
18:38He never communicated, never written, never written any article or letter.
18:43And he never said that he is against rebuild or reconstruction of Somna Temple.
18:48At that time of 1947, we were facing the issue of serious issue of partition.
18:53And all everywhere, communal riots were happening.
18:56At that time, spending government money on a temple was not a good idea advised by Mahatma Gandhi ji.
19:04And that's why the government of India, Congress government decided to create a trial.
19:10Okay, I have just a minute left.
19:11What's wrong in it?
19:12What's wrong in it?
19:13No, no, I just have a minute left.
19:14And I would, in fact, request all of you to give me 10 seconds of your opinion and stick to it.
19:21Ms. Varma, 10 seconds, please.
19:23You know, in 10 seconds, I will just say this.
19:26Thank God, Narendra Modi became Prime Minister for the third time in a row.
19:30We had a civilizational issue like Ramjan Mabhumi, which has been resolved.
19:35We have had the Shorya Yatra at Somna.
19:38We've had the need to governation of Jai and Mahakal.
19:41We've had the need to governation of the Kashi.
19:42I'm moving on to Mr. Ravel.
19:45Yes, please.
19:4510 seconds.
19:47Modi ji has not resolved any issue.
19:49Supreme Court of India has resolved the issue.
19:51Ms. Varma, please collect your knowledge.
19:54Please read some...
19:54Ms. Varma, you're taking away his 10 seconds also.
19:57Please read some articles of India today and welcome to the debate.
20:00Please read some India today's articles and then come to the debate.
20:04Mr. Bhat, I'm sorry, I'm requesting you to speak over this din,
20:08but what is your last comment?
20:09Mr. Bhat, Dr. Bhat.
20:11My advice to everyone is that we must revisit the history
20:16and if we find some glorious chapters on the part of India,
20:21we must bring them to our school books.
20:24We must bring it to our universities
20:26so that we should not demoralize when we read the Indian history.
20:29Right.
20:30We should be...
20:31At least there should be a balance.
20:32Absolutely.
20:33Thank you very much to all of you for joining in.
20:36Maybe it's time for us to look forward
20:38and celebrate the Indian civilization as well,
20:42but take everyone together when we do so
20:44instead of debating past and raking up past issues.
20:48Thank you very much for watching this.
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