In this Special Report, India Today's Managing Editor Gaurav Sawant moderates a fiery debate on Defence Minister Rajnath Singh's claim that Jawaharlal Nehru wanted to use government funds to rebuild the Babri Masjid. BJP National Spokesperson Dr. Ajay Alok defends the statement, citing 'cabinet archives of 1949' and claiming Sardar Patel rejected the proposal. He also references the 'Inside Story of Sardar Patel' and Maniben Patel's diary. Countering him, Congress National Spokesperson Dr. Shama Mohammed dismisses the claims as a distraction from issues like pollution, demanding 'archival or documentary evidence' and questioning the authenticity of the cited books. The debate turns heated with personal remarks and demands for facts.
00:00Dr. Ajay Alok, Congress asks, where is the evidence to prove Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru
00:05sought treasury funds, government money to build Babri Masjid and Sardar Patel opposed it?
00:16If you go through the cabinet archives of 1949, when the first government was formed
00:21and Jawaharlal Nehru became the prime minister way back in 1946,
00:24in 1949 the proposal very much came there and which was absolutely rejected
00:29by none other than Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel and in the contrary Mr. Nehru said
00:33that what was the need for the Somnath Temple to which the answer came what he just now said
00:37that the Somnath Temple is completely funded by the people who have collected 30 lakhs
00:43for its renovation. The bucks didn't stop here.
00:47When Dr. Rajinder Pashad was invited to inaugurate the Somnath Temple,
00:52Mr. Nehru objected to it which is there in the written. Again, a letter was written
00:56that you should not go because India being a secular country, you should not go to
01:00to inaugurate a temple. This legacy continued. It didn't stop here only.
01:05If you remember after 1991, the late Prime Minister Narasimha Rao, on the floor of the house he said
01:11that the new Babri Masjid will be constructed by the government.
01:14So this kept on happening. This appeasement politics continued before the independence,
01:20after independence and this legacy was carried out by the Gandhi family continuously till now.
01:26Let me bring in Dr. Shama Mohammed.
01:30Somebody is making Babri Masjid from TNC MLA.
01:32Okay. Dr. Shama Mohammed, the BJP accuses the Congress of appeasement politics and says there's a long history
01:40history from the time of Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru. The BJP claims it reflects an anti-Hindu mindset of the Congress.
01:48The stance, you know, two aspects being raised. One, hostile on the Somnath Temple.
01:54Two, you know, Dr. Rajinder Prasad attending it. Rajnath Singh's statement that, you know,
02:01Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru wanted government funds for Babri Masjid construction, madam.
02:05Gaurav Savant, I have known you for years. You are a good anchor, a good journalist,
02:12and you go by facts and evidences. I'm so shocked that you're doing a show on what Rajnath Singh said.
02:19Now, Dr. Ajay Alok spoke. He never said anywhere in what he said. He said Pandit Nehru was against Somnath.
02:26He said he went on to what is the other person, Narasimha Rao, our former prime minister, said this and that.
02:31But nowhere he said what Rajnath Singh said, that Jawaharlal Nehru wanted funds to build a Babri Masjid.
02:40So that itself we can understand as no evidence. I'm telling you today, I just got the news.
02:46I got a call just now that Rajnath Singh is converted to Islam. Do you know that, Gaurav Savant?
02:51I just got a call. Rajnath Singh is now a Muslim. So this is the thing. You have to do a debate on that now.
02:58Because Rajnath Singh goes out and says something that has happened, which he thinks is right.
03:04Is that the basis of you doing a debate? Have they shown you any of the evidence?
03:09He's defence minister of India.
03:10I don't give a damn he's a defence minister if he doesn't come out with facts.
03:15I don't care who the hell he is. There is something. You're a journalist of caliber.
03:20The BJP has gone mad. They come out to divert and distract from SIR.
03:26And the most important thing right now, pollution, which is killing Ajay Alok, who's a doctor himself.
03:32He knows what is COPD. Gaurav Savant, it's killing him. He lives in Noida.
03:37And they say Noida is worse than Delhi. And it's killing us and many others. That's the most important topic.
03:43I want to know, Ajay Alok, I've heard that Rajnath Singh is converted into Islam. Can you tell me if it's the truth or not?
03:49Okay, Ajay Alok, since there's a direct reference to you, you want to respond to what the Congress party's spokesperson says, both on the issue of the defense.
03:55Because he never said, where is the Babri Masjid thing?
03:58Dr. Ajay Alok and Dr. Shama Muhammad, we put both the good doctors on screen.
04:03I'm insulting, one second, one more thing, Gaurav Savant. And insulting the Prime Minister. Remember, the ban of RSS was done by Sardar Vallabhai Patel and not Jawaharlal Nehru.
04:13You keep telling Sardar Vallabhai Patel, stop this bloody nonsense. Enough is enough, all right?
04:19Do not pick up stories about Pandit Nehru, who was one of the great Prime Ministers of this country. Enough is enough.
04:25Okay, Dr. Ajay Alok wants to respond, ma'am.
04:26Stories about Narendra Modi, or for that matter, Vajpayee. We will never do that.
04:31Okay, Dr. Ajay Alok.
04:32I guess I don't expect the sanctity of words to be maintained here when it cannot be maintained in the Parliament.
04:40So all the slangs of bloody and I don't care and I give a damn, keep it to yourself.
04:46We also don't care and we give a damn.
04:47And I guess you didn't hear my initial statement when I said in 1949 a Cabinet proposal came to fund Babri Masjid,
04:54for which the documented evidence is there, in the archives of the Government of India.
04:58That is a fact. Don't run away.
05:00And if Sardar Vallabhai Patel banned, don't shout in between.
05:03Do it to me.
05:04Don't shout in between. Don't shout in between.
05:06I have to read, because you're talking nonsense.
05:07Okay, one by one.
05:08You're talking nonsense.
05:09One by one.
05:10We have already shown.
05:11We had already shown.
05:13Lick, lick.
05:13One by one.
05:14Okay.
05:15Yeah.
05:15Keep your cool.
05:16Dr. Shama Mohammed and Dr. Ajay Alok on air, please.
05:18We are going to be like this for the next 30, 40 years.
05:20We have...
05:21Yeah.
05:23Go on, Dr. Alok.
05:23We have already shown the late Subhash Chandra Bose diary.
05:26We are already in the process of showing many things, which is hidden, which is not there in the history,
05:31which is going to be the part of the history, which is troubling you, which is troubling you,
05:34which is troubling you, if Sadaar Patel banned us, if Sadaar Patel banned us, why are you shouting in between?
05:40Okay, one by one.
05:41I don't want to go beyond evidence.
05:55Where is the evidence when you accuse a former Prime Minister who is not alive to defend himself?
06:01I want evidence.
06:02Anxiety and irritability...
06:03Yes, Dr. Ajay Alok.
06:05Your...
06:05Your anxiety and irritability cannot change the facts.
06:11These are the facts.
06:12And if Sadaar Patel banned us, after the death of Masma Gandhi, Sadaar Patel only lifted the ban.
06:18Dr. Mohammed, just let him come to this point.
06:20Sadaar Patel only lifted the ban.
06:21You know, he lifted...
06:22And your...
06:22You know, he heard you.
06:24Hear him out.
06:24I'll come back to you, madam.
06:26Just hear him out.
06:26I can't hear something which is nonsensical, Gaurav.
06:28Where are the evidence made?
06:30Evidence?
06:30See, he's a doctor.
06:31A disease has got...
06:33We do evidence-based facts.
06:34This is nothing but...
06:34This is nothing but the anxiety.
06:37So, you're not a doctor.
06:37The anxiety of hiding the...
06:38Hiding the truth.
06:40You're not a Farzee doctor.
06:40This is nothing but the anxiety of hiding the truth.
06:43That why...
06:43Dr. Mohammed, no personal attacks.
06:45What you are.
06:45Mind your language.
06:46Enough.
06:48Enough.
06:49Okay.
06:49I've heard you enough.
06:51Bloody, bloody, bloody.
06:51What do you think you are?
06:53You can speak anything.
06:53Any nonsense on the TV.
06:55And get away with it.
06:56Mind your language.
06:57From being courteous.
06:58On the substantive issue.
06:59On the substantive issue.
07:01Evidence kaha hai.
07:02Be courteous.
07:02Okay.
07:03Okay, Dr. Alok.
07:05We are not discussing our personal matters here.
07:07Sabot dikha do.
07:08Sabot dikha do.
07:09When I'm saying one after the other thing, listen to me.
07:11We don't want to go beyond.
07:12Okay, only Dr. Ajay Alok so that he can make the point.
07:15There are evidence.
07:15Dr. Shama Mohammed, just let Dr. Ajay Alok complete his point.
07:19I'm coming back to you.
07:20Dr. Alok, complete your point, sir.
07:21One after the other, we have given the evidence and we'll come out with this evidence also
07:28that there was a cabinet proposal in which Nehru proposed that the Babri Masjid be built
07:32to maintain the mutual trust post-1948 communal rights.
07:37Let's build the Babri Masjid.
07:38It came up in the cabinet.
07:40You know every cabinet proposal, whether accepted or rejected, is kept in the government archive.
07:44It's there for everyone to see.
07:46Congress knows this very well.
07:47Now, they are afraid that if we bring out this, this will open another Pandora's box.
07:52Secondly, second thing, if Sardar Patel banned RSS, Sardar Patel only lifted RSS, the ban
07:56on RSS, and he wrote a good comprehensive three-pages letter which is there in the documented
08:01evidence.
08:01And she talks about RSS.
08:03It was Mr. Nehru only who invited RSS post-China war to participate in a Republic Day parade.
08:09She conveniently forgets everything.
08:11This Congress party banned RSS thrice after that, during emergency, which was lifted by
08:15court.
08:1691 post-Babri Masjid demolition lifted by court.
08:18Okay, I want to once again come back to a substantive issue.
08:21You are nothing in front of RSS.
08:21Of Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru.
08:22This is the essence of this country.
08:25Okay, Dr. Shama Mohammed, the BJP has also quoted an excerpt from the inside story of
08:30Sardar Patel, the diary of Moneyband Patel, which reads and I quote and I put that quote
08:34out in public domain for our viewers also.
08:38It says, Nehru also raised the issue, the question of Babri Masjid, but Sardar made it
08:43clear that the government could not spend any money for building a mosque.
08:48And then it goes on to give a reason.
08:50Would you want to respond to Moneyband Patel's book?
08:53Gaurav, I can write a book.
08:55Some idiot can write a book.
08:56Ma'am, this is Sardar Patel's daughter.
09:00You know, no, no, listen to me.
09:01I don't care who it is.
09:03I want to see evidence from...
09:05She's calling Sardar Patel's daughter an idiot.
09:07What kind of a language is being used?
09:10Parliamentary school community cutta hai, dustta hai.
09:13Here she's using all kind of bloody slangs and all, idiot and all.
09:16Dr. Alok, let Dr. Mohammed complete her point, sir.
09:18Here put to your ear the abuses of Congress.
09:22Yes.
09:23No, I request all my guests.
09:24I request my guests to keep the language civil.
09:28You know, this is a show which is widely watched by families and children.
09:33But Dr. Mohammed, complete your point, ma'am.
09:35My point is very simple.
09:37Listen to me, Gaurav.
09:38You are a senior journalist.
09:40You can't accuse a prime minister of somebody writing a book or something else.
09:45We don't know what happened there.
09:47Just bring out...
09:48He says it's in the archives.
09:50Bring it out tomorrow.
09:51Rajnath said you bring it out and put it out there.
09:54This is there or where there is that letter from Jawaharlal Nehru to Patel.
09:59I mean, you can't...
10:00You know, you can't do this.
10:02Enough is enough.
10:03Tomorrow, I can say so-and-so was behind the Gujarat riots or somebody else converted into...
10:08And who went to Jinnah's grave?
10:10Who went to Jinnah's grave?
10:12It was Advani.
10:13Nobody from our party.
10:14Jinnah's grave.
10:15Advani went there.
10:16One of their tallest leaders.
10:17So, that is called evidence.
10:20That's a fact.
10:21Because we have evidence.
10:22Now, you come out and see...
10:23Ajay Alok, give me a moment.
10:26Okay, fair enough.
10:27You're saying bring out that evidence in public domain and let it not be just anecdotal references.
10:33You know, and we have great respect for Sardar Patel and Maniwain Patel as far as India today is concerned.
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