THR's Full Uncensored Drama Actor Roundtable with Jason Bateman, Michael B. Jordan and More

Hollywood Journal

Darren Criss, Jeff Daniels, Matthew Rhys and J.K. Simmons also star on the Drama Actor Roundtable

Transcript

00:00:00Hi, and welcome to Close Up with a Hollywood Reporter.

00:00:04I'm Lacey Rose, and I'm joined by J.K. Simmons, Matthew Rhys,

00:00:08Jason Bateman, Darren Criss, Jeff Daniels, and Michael B. Jordan.

00:00:11Thanks all for joining us.

00:00:13So we're going to start with what I hope is a fun question.

00:00:16What is the most amusing or frustrating feedback you've received in trying out for a part?

00:00:20I have one.

00:00:21Go.

00:00:21But nothing was actually said.

00:00:23I went to a casting.

00:00:24Nothing went to a casting.

00:00:25I could hear the casting agent on the phone,

00:00:27and the assistant said, she's in the middle of a very important call.

00:00:31Please sit down and wait.

00:00:32The call went on and on and on.

00:00:34The assistant kept apologizing.

00:00:35Then about 45 minutes, the assistant went,

00:00:38can you come into the office?

00:00:40And I could hear, she was in the middle of a heated, heated conversation.

00:00:44I walked to the doorway.

00:00:45I stand at the doorway.

00:00:46She's going, I know, I know.

00:00:47She looks at me.

00:00:48She goes.

00:00:50The assistant just went.

00:00:53That was it.

00:00:54That was it.

00:00:55That's when I knew I wanted to be an actor.

00:00:57Mm-hmm.

00:00:58Oh, God.

00:00:59I feel like that's kind of indicative of a lot of stories that involve,

00:01:03I guess, less than positive feedback,

00:01:04which is not so much actually hearing what it is,

00:01:06but not hearing anything at all.

00:01:08Yeah.

00:01:08Sort of the proverbial head shake where you go,

00:01:10so is there anything that could have done,

00:01:12and there's just, no, there's nothing,

00:01:14and you just don't, well, I just want anything.

00:01:16Yeah, no.

00:01:16It's very nebulous.

00:01:17We just don't like you.

00:01:18We don't like you.

00:01:19You're saying something about you, yeah.

00:01:21It's kind of great now with the self-taping,

00:01:23where an actor can just audition on their own computer

00:01:28with their own sort of webcam or their phone or whatever

00:01:32and then basically shoot it till you love it

00:01:34and then send that,

00:01:36and you don't have to go through all the nerves of the room,

00:01:38and hopefully you do it the way you practiced in the mirror at home.

00:01:43All of that's taken away for the most part.

00:01:46I think the self-taping is what's going on.

00:01:48So you're not ever actually rejected by another human being face-to-face.

00:01:53No, it's self-taping.

00:01:53You're not so rejected.

00:01:54You're just not in person.

00:01:56Yeah.

00:01:56Your agent relays a really nice message.

00:01:59Love you, but.

00:02:00But.

00:02:00You're going with a different book.

00:02:01You're not tall enough.

00:02:02Yeah, exactly.

00:02:03You must have had one.

00:02:04The thank you next I've had a lot.

00:02:09I remember, I don't know if it's the same,

00:02:11but I was doing a play off-Broadway,

00:02:13and it was god-awful.

00:02:15Yeah, I saw that one.

00:02:17Not great.

00:02:18And you even came.

00:02:21I didn't stay.

00:02:22You stayed for a while.

00:02:26And this actress friend of ours came in to the dressing room afterwards,

00:02:30and we're just, we're in a horrible,

00:02:33and she just put her head around the curtain and just said,

00:02:39Oh, God.

00:02:41And just laughed.

00:02:41It just knew.

00:02:42And just laughed.

00:02:43Oh, God.

00:02:44Amazing.

00:02:44You knew.

00:02:45She knew.

00:02:45Yeah, you just knew.

00:02:46Well, do you know?

00:02:47I mean, it's an interesting question.

00:02:48Do you know when something isn't good?

00:02:50I think you do.

00:02:52You do?

00:02:52I mean, usually.

00:02:53Despite yourself, I think.

00:02:55Or if you don't, it's made very clear to you very soon,

00:02:58especially in this day and age.

00:02:59I think it'll find its way to you,

00:03:01whether you like it or not.

00:03:02During shooting?

00:03:04I don't, that's anyone's guess.

00:03:05I think more, maybe from the theater, it's easy.

00:03:08From the play, yeah.

00:03:08From the play, you know yourself.

00:03:09Because you know it immediately.

00:03:10Yeah, but you don't know during a...

00:03:11Or if they interrupt you during, you know,

00:03:13your lines, your auditions.

00:03:15Like, no, just try to give you direction

00:03:16in the middle of what you're trying to do.

00:03:18You're feeling really good about yourself.

00:03:19And they're like, no, no, no, let's just try this.

00:03:21Or have you ever thought about it this way?

00:03:22And it's like, okay, cool.

00:03:23Maybe my instinct wasn't correct.

00:03:25Wasn't on top of it.

00:03:26Yeah, it wasn't quite on point.

00:03:27So, Michael, you had recently said,

00:03:29personally, I think you're defined

00:03:31by what you say no to.

00:03:32Mm-hmm.

00:03:33What does that mean to you?

00:03:35And how have those decisions

00:03:36defined you in your career?

00:03:39How do I answer that without

00:03:40throwing those projects out?

00:03:44Good question.

00:03:46Oh, there's one piece of ground.

00:03:48Let's hear all of me say no to.

00:03:50You can't do everything, you know,

00:03:56and then obviously, you know,

00:03:57you have agents that have their own agenda.

00:03:58Everybody's kind of like, you know,

00:03:59trying to push you and navigate you

00:04:01towards saying or taking a job

00:04:02that you may not feel 100% comfortable with.

00:04:04So for me personally, it's just kind of like,

00:04:06you know, not chasing the money.

00:04:08That may look good.

00:04:09Okay, everything on paper that, you know,

00:04:10may look good in the script or whatnot

00:04:12may not actually turn out that way

00:04:14when it hits the screen.

00:04:15So you just kind of have to go with your instinct

00:04:17and, I don't know, stay true to your gut.

00:04:19So I try to listen to the inner voice

00:04:21as much as I can.

00:04:22When did you guys sort of gain the confidence

00:04:24to be able to say no?

00:04:25Was there a point in your career

00:04:27where you felt comfortable being able to say,

00:04:30no, I don't need this one?

00:04:32I think it's a luxury to be able to say no.

00:04:33Well, yeah, it is.

00:04:36But it also, for me, there were two stages in it.

00:04:39And one of them was very early on

00:04:41when I was just from hunger

00:04:42and I was like waiting tables half the time

00:04:44and doing theater in Buffalo or Cleveland

00:04:46or Atlanta or wherever.

00:04:47And I had an agent in New York

00:04:50and I would go back

00:04:51and I would audition for a few things

00:04:53and I'd get a job

00:04:54and I'd go off and do a play, you know.

00:04:56And I got an offer to do a show

00:04:57that I was not interested in doing

00:04:59and it was the only offer I had

00:05:02and I was talking to my agent about it,

00:05:04sitting there across the desk from him

00:05:06in the office, like in the olden days.

00:05:08And he said, well, what else are you going to do?

00:05:11And I said, well, I don't know.

00:05:13Isn't that your job?

00:05:13I mean, you know, he goes, look, it's a good company.

00:05:17It's a good, well, you know,

00:05:18I mean, it might not be your favorite role,

00:05:19but, you know, go.

00:05:21It's a job, go.

00:05:22And I went and I was miserable

00:05:24for, you know, eight weeks in Cleveland,

00:05:26if that's not redundant.

00:05:28No.

00:05:29Sorry, man.

00:05:29And I thought, you know, I mean.

00:05:31I'm sorry, Brian.

00:05:31Honestly, I would have been happier

00:05:35waiting tables at Joe Allen

00:05:36and waiting for something better to come along.

00:05:39So really, that was when I started realizing

00:05:41I can say no

00:05:43because, you know,

00:05:45whether it serves my career or not,

00:05:47it's going to just serve my happiness.

00:05:49That's a good point.

00:05:50I guess, like, for me,

00:05:51like, when I was younger,

00:05:52I started off, like, you know,

00:05:53still living at home.

00:05:54I didn't have any real responsibilities.

00:05:55I didn't have a mortgage to worry about

00:05:56or, like, bills to pay.

00:05:57So you're kind of taking what's in front of you.

00:06:00And at that point,

00:06:01I've been blessed to, like,

00:06:03work consistently as a kid,

00:06:05even though there was tons of no's

00:06:06and I didn't get, you know,

00:06:07a lot of the auditions that I went out for,

00:06:09the roles that I did get stuck around

00:06:11and kind of pushed me to that next level.

00:06:12But once you got older

00:06:13and a little bit more successful,

00:06:14the choices that you make

00:06:16really kind of define

00:06:17the way the industry looks at you

00:06:18and kind of how you move forward

00:06:20with your career.

00:06:20And those are the times

00:06:21that you've got to be a little bit more,

00:06:23you know, selective with the kind of projects.

00:06:24And oftentimes, the choices,

00:06:26or at least in my case,

00:06:27it's pretty easy.

00:06:29I mean, one's a clear, no way.

00:06:31And then the other one is,

00:06:32well, I think I can not embarrass myself with that

00:06:35or not be a pain in the ass on that set

00:06:37by trying to make it something

00:06:38that it clearly should be or wants to be.

00:06:42So that's where you set the bar.

00:06:43Yeah.

00:06:44Just don't want to be a pain in the ass

00:06:45and take the no-brainer down.

00:06:47Not embarrassing.

00:06:48What's a no-brainer?

00:06:49What are the obvious no's?

00:06:51And I don't mean specific projects,

00:06:52but what are the things you say,

00:06:54mm, not going to do that?

00:06:58Musicals.

00:06:58Yeah.

00:06:58Hey, guys.

00:06:59Hey, guys.

00:07:00Come on now.

00:07:01Just jokes.

00:07:02Just jokes.

00:07:02You know, stuff that is the real low-hanging fruit

00:07:08that seems like a big payday

00:07:13or, you know, something that is,

00:07:15it's clearly just about,

00:07:17it's like a sprinter project, right?

00:07:19They just want like a big splash, big opening,

00:07:21and they're not really too concerned

00:07:23about the merits of it,

00:07:24which would sort of lead to like multiple weeks

00:07:26of people going to go see it, you know?

00:07:28The things I'm drawn to say yes to

00:07:30are less about the role,

00:07:34you know, even the script as a whole.

00:07:36It's about the people who are doing it

00:07:38because when I feel like

00:07:41I really want to work with somebody,

00:07:42it's usually pretty indicative

00:07:44of the quality of the projects,

00:07:45you know, the people that you associate yourself with.

00:07:47So I don't care whether I've got

00:07:48three lines to say in it or 30.

00:07:50It's more about who's directing it,

00:07:52who are the other actors,

00:07:53what's the studio,

00:07:54and like where is it, you know,

00:07:56is it something that I would want to go see

00:07:58as a viewer just because of its quality

00:08:01or its ambition.

00:08:03That's a big go-to now.

00:08:05Who's in it?

00:08:06Yeah.

00:08:06Who else is in it?

00:08:07Who are you looking at?

00:08:08Oh, it's him?

00:08:09It's her?

00:08:10I'm in.

00:08:11Yeah, exactly.

00:08:11Oh, it's that?

00:08:12I don't like it.

00:08:13It defines what the tone of it is

00:08:16because you can read a script

00:08:17and there's 60 different ways

00:08:19you can do that script.

00:08:21And not all of them are bad,

00:08:22not all of them are good,

00:08:23but who they're going after

00:08:25says a lot about

00:08:25what their creative intention is for it,

00:08:27you know?

00:08:28See, I'm learning something here.

00:08:29Yeah.

00:08:30I get married to the script,

00:08:32you know,

00:08:33a lot of the time

00:08:34and, you know,

00:08:35which obviously we all want to do.

00:08:38I mean, you do stuff

00:08:38that you can fail at.

00:08:40That's where I'm at now.

00:08:41I mean, being, right?

00:08:43You risk something.

00:08:44Yeah, you want to take a chance.

00:08:45Yeah.

00:08:45Have a challenge.

00:08:46That's a lean-in for me.

00:08:49For you, though,

00:08:49earlier on,

00:08:50I mean,

00:08:50I remember you talking about

00:08:52your agents were saying

00:08:53don't do dumb and dumber,

00:08:54don't get off the Oscar train.

00:08:56What was that conversation?

00:08:57We're begging you not to do this.

00:08:59Yeah.

00:08:59Why?

00:09:00Why and why do you feel so confident?

00:09:02Because there were three agents

00:09:03on the phone

00:09:04the night before I was to fly

00:09:05the next morning

00:09:06to do wardrobe for Dumb and Dumber.

00:09:08Three agents,

00:09:09one in New York,

00:09:09two in L.A.

00:09:10The two in L.A.

00:09:11were going,

00:09:11we're going to stop you.

00:09:13You're not going to do this.

00:09:14You're a serious,

00:09:15important actor.

00:09:16We're trying to get you

00:09:17to the Oscars.

00:09:18You keep defeating us.

00:09:20Stop doing that.

00:09:21And this will be

00:09:22the end of your career.

00:09:23Frankly,

00:09:23Jim Carrey's a comedic genius.

00:09:25With all due respect,

00:09:26he's going to wipe you

00:09:27off the screen.

00:09:28Say no

00:09:29and we'll take care of it.

00:09:30I said,

00:09:31you know what?

00:09:33I'm bored with the career.

00:09:35I want to change it up.

00:09:36I'm living in Michigan.

00:09:38Right?

00:09:39I need to go

00:09:40from Dumb and Dumber

00:09:41to anything remotely serious.

00:09:44And for my world,

00:09:45in between,

00:09:45there are all these jobs.

00:09:47Because if you can do this

00:09:48and you can do that.

00:09:50So I said,

00:09:51if this is a mistake,

00:09:52guys,

00:09:52it's mine.

00:09:53I'm going.

00:09:54But he's such a good actor

00:09:56and that is what makes him

00:09:57such a great comic.

00:09:59As are you.

00:10:01The roles you played

00:10:02in that movie,

00:10:05they were big swings

00:10:07and you needed

00:10:08the acting chops

00:10:09to make the specificity

00:10:10of those characters real.

00:10:12I think that's why

00:10:13people say comedy

00:10:14is harder than drama

00:10:15because you've got

00:10:15to be real

00:10:16at an even heightened

00:10:18and exaggerated place.

00:10:19And so that's probably,

00:10:21I don't know,

00:10:21if I were you

00:10:22with your talent,

00:10:23that's probably

00:10:23what I would have been

00:10:24saying to myself

00:10:24and what these agents

00:10:25might not have been

00:10:26factoring in.

00:10:27It was like,

00:10:28no, no,

00:10:28I'm going to go do this

00:10:29and I'm going to be great

00:10:29at it because I've got

00:10:31the acting talent

00:10:32to be really,

00:10:33every bit as funny

00:10:34as Jim Carrey,

00:10:35which you obviously were.

00:10:36Are you still with those agents?

00:10:39One of them, yeah.

00:10:39One of them.

00:10:40The one that's,

00:10:41the one that's,

00:10:41yeah.

00:10:42And you know what?

00:10:43They had a good point.

00:10:44They're going,

00:10:45Jeff, this could,

00:10:46this could,

00:10:47and nobody knew.

00:10:47Well, it was risky.

00:10:48Yeah, yeah.

00:10:48We thought 12-year-olds

00:10:49would go,

00:10:49but that was about it.

00:10:50Now you've got

00:10:52Tom Arnold's career,

00:10:53you know,

00:10:54all due respect to Tom.

00:10:55Were there times

00:10:56in your career,

00:10:56were there specific projects

00:10:57where you sort of

00:10:58tuned everybody else out

00:10:59and said,

00:11:00I'm doing this,

00:11:01I really want this one?

00:11:05I'm negotiating one right now.

00:11:08They're not being

00:11:08that helpful with.

00:11:10No, it's,

00:11:13you,

00:11:13I think,

00:11:15I don't know,

00:11:16I think I've got a,

00:11:18I'm very fortunate

00:11:19to have a great team

00:11:21and they're all really good

00:11:22at what they do

00:11:22and I love their advice

00:11:23and that's what you pay them for

00:11:25and you want to be deferential.

00:11:27But at the end of the day,

00:11:28you've,

00:11:28you're the only one

00:11:30that can make the decision

00:11:32based on the things

00:11:33that you know

00:11:33what you're planning on doing

00:11:34and you can't expect them

00:11:35to read your mind

00:11:36and they know that

00:11:38so you take their opinion

00:11:39and you give it the value

00:11:41that it deserves

00:11:42but they can't see

00:11:43what your plans are

00:11:45and inevitably,

00:11:46they see what you did

00:11:49and they don't say,

00:11:52ah, got it.

00:11:52But inevitably,

00:11:54they say,

00:11:55I understand why you did that.

00:11:56I didn't see it that way

00:11:57and no way you could have

00:11:58explained that to me.

00:11:59So there's a place

00:12:03for their advice

00:12:03and it's really,

00:12:04it's a valuable place

00:12:05but it shouldn't,

00:12:06at least in my case,

00:12:07it doesn't dictate.

00:12:09But I feel like

00:12:09it's a gamble

00:12:09every single time.

00:12:10There's no surefire anything.

00:12:11I mean,

00:12:12there's an alternate dimension

00:12:13where that didn't go so well.

00:12:14Yeah, oh God, yeah.

00:12:16That would have been

00:12:16the lesson you learned.

00:12:18Oh man,

00:12:18I should have really,

00:12:19shouldn't have taken that risk

00:12:20with the comedy thing.

00:12:21You took a risk

00:12:22and it paid off

00:12:22so we all win

00:12:23but there's many different situations

00:12:25where they could have

00:12:26just blew up in your face

00:12:27but there's no way to know.

00:12:29I mean,

00:12:29you just,

00:12:30with all your guts,

00:12:31just your fingers crossed.

00:12:31And now,

00:12:32that's what keeps me

00:12:33in the business

00:12:34are the challenges

00:12:35of not repeating myself.

00:12:38You know?

00:12:39We didn't see you do whiplash.

00:12:40We haven't seen you do that.

00:12:42All of a sudden,

00:12:42out of the blue,

00:12:44you kill in that.

00:12:45You just kill.

00:12:47And it easily

00:12:47could have been

00:12:48way over the top.

00:12:49Oh, turn the guy down.

00:12:51No.

00:12:52Well, Miles Teller

00:12:53was saying that.

00:12:53Was he?

00:12:54Was Miles?

00:12:55But that was an example

00:12:57of a great risk taken

00:12:58and that worked out well.

00:13:00I love that stuff.

00:13:01I love that stuff.

00:13:02I have a question.

00:13:03After this is sort of

00:13:03similar to easy no's,

00:13:06I think there is a certain

00:13:08and a lot of these people

00:13:10go,

00:13:10I want to believe

00:13:11that this isn't the case

00:13:12but there's a certain

00:13:13lack of imagination

00:13:14that happens sometimes

00:13:15around town

00:13:15where given the last thing

00:13:16you did,

00:13:17if there was a bit of success,

00:13:17they go,

00:13:18okay, perfect.

00:13:18JK,

00:13:19we got this new role for you.

00:13:20It's this kind of manic,

00:13:21crazy sort of authority type

00:13:23or similar to any of the roles

00:13:24you've just played.

00:13:26To me,

00:13:26those are the easy no's

00:13:27where I go,

00:13:27oh, come on guys,

00:13:28you're smarter than that.

00:13:29You must know that life is bigger

00:13:31than whatever I just did.

00:13:34I think right after Glee,

00:13:35there was several teenage roles

00:13:37that were very similar to Glee

00:13:39which, hey,

00:13:40on the one hand,

00:13:41you go,

00:13:41okay,

00:13:41I guess you believed it.

00:13:42Great,

00:13:42I did my job.

00:13:43But now,

00:13:43that's true.

00:13:45That's another universe

00:13:47I can live in.

00:13:48But now after Versace,

00:13:49it's like,

00:13:49oh,

00:13:49we got this weird

00:13:50kind of creepy killer type.

00:13:51I'm like,

00:13:52come on guys,

00:13:53we're actors.

00:13:54Exactly,

00:13:55we just did that.

00:13:56So where's the...

00:13:56But there's a branding

00:13:57that happens.

00:13:58Exactly,

00:13:58it's inevitable.

00:13:59And that's been around,

00:13:59Gable was a brand.

00:14:01All those guys.

00:14:02Jimmy Stewart.

00:14:03When they figured out

00:14:04Jimmy Stewart's personality,

00:14:06rode that wave.

00:14:07But there's a distinction

00:14:08between that leading man

00:14:10and character actor,

00:14:12right,

00:14:12where an audience,

00:14:14I think,

00:14:14has a predisposition

00:14:15to what to expect with you.

00:14:18Like a character actor,

00:14:19I think their knees

00:14:20are going to be bent

00:14:20a little bit deeper,

00:14:21like I'll go wherever

00:14:22he wants to take me.

00:14:23Whereas a leading man,

00:14:24I think if a leading man

00:14:25went and did some

00:14:26incredibly arch character,

00:14:28audience might be

00:14:29a little bit like,

00:14:29hey,

00:14:29easy,

00:14:30pump it a little bit,

00:14:31you know,

00:14:31walk me into that

00:14:33kind of swing,

00:14:34you know,

00:14:34over the course

00:14:35of two or three movies

00:14:36before you,

00:14:37you know,

00:14:38go with the limp

00:14:38and the accent

00:14:39and the lazy eye,

00:14:40you know.

00:14:42Note to self,

00:14:42Tom, too.

00:14:43Exactly, exactly.

00:14:44I think it's more or less

00:14:44like the risk

00:14:45that the actor

00:14:45wants to take also.

00:14:46You know,

00:14:47like how risky

00:14:47do they want to take?

00:14:48What kind of chance

00:14:49do they want to take

00:14:49on the next role?

00:14:50Do they want to stay safe

00:14:51and do something

00:14:51that they've done before?

00:14:52Just for, you know,

00:14:53paychecks or whatever

00:14:54the hell it is.

00:14:55And it's your career

00:14:56in a position to do that.

00:14:57Exactly.

00:14:58So with Fahrenheit,

00:14:59it was one where you said

00:15:00sort of initially

00:15:01you were not interested

00:15:03in the role,

00:15:05in the project.

00:15:07Why and what got you

00:15:08to yes?

00:15:10I wasn't interested

00:15:10in playing

00:15:11an authoritative figure.

00:15:13You know,

00:15:13what was going on

00:15:14in the world

00:15:14with like police

00:15:15and like my community,

00:15:16you know what I'm saying,

00:15:16being a black man.

00:15:17I didn't want to play

00:15:18somebody who was

00:15:19an oppressor,

00:15:20you know what I'm saying?

00:15:20I just didn't want

00:15:21that in my head.

00:15:22It was just something

00:15:22that I wasn't interested

00:15:23in doing,

00:15:24playing a firefighter

00:15:25that was going around

00:15:26burning books

00:15:27and just that kind of,

00:15:29that character for me

00:15:31just didn't sit right

00:15:32because I played Oscar Grant

00:15:34and I was playing characters

00:15:35that meant so much

00:15:37to my community

00:15:37at that time.

00:15:38After sitting down

00:15:39with the director,

00:15:40Ramin,

00:15:40and knowing Michael Shannon

00:15:42was going to be a part of it,

00:15:42I think he was an incredible actor,

00:15:44and understanding the vision

00:15:45and the kind of themes

00:15:46and messages

00:15:46that he wanted to send

00:15:48to the movie.

00:15:48And I,

00:15:50at that time,

00:15:50I didn't,

00:15:51I haven't read the book either.

00:15:52You hadn't?

00:15:52I haven't read the book

00:15:53and I wasn't on my

00:15:54high school reading list.

00:15:56So I went and read

00:15:57through the book

00:15:58and kind of really understood

00:15:59what Bradbury was

00:16:00really trying to say

00:16:00and I was like,

00:16:01okay.

00:16:01Hold on.

00:16:03Don't stop reading to me.

00:16:05Sir.

00:16:05Next page!

00:16:11Did you think

00:16:12that one tiny crime

00:16:13would be wiped out

00:16:16by thousands of good deeds?

00:16:19That there would be

00:16:20no punishment?

00:16:21Little knowledge

00:16:29is a dangerous thing.

00:16:31You read a few lines,

00:16:32you're ready to blow up the world,

00:16:33chop heads off,

00:16:34destroy authority.

00:16:36I know.

00:16:38I've been through it all.

00:16:39Your mom has been somebody

00:16:40who's been very influential

00:16:41of what types of roles

00:16:43you didn't want to keep dying

00:16:45for your mom.

00:16:46And then also,

00:16:47to Jason's point,

00:16:48wanting to be a leading man,

00:16:49I didn't want the audiences

00:16:51and people to keep

00:16:51seeing me dying in roles.

00:16:53I wanted to survive

00:16:55through the attack.

00:16:57I couldn't keep playing that role.

00:16:59And yeah, my mom,

00:17:00being able to,

00:17:01for her,

00:17:02just every time I watched

00:17:03her watch me die on screen,

00:17:05it tore me up

00:17:07as I got older.

00:17:08She would just weep

00:17:08and she's a very emotional mom.

00:17:09I love her.

00:17:11Moms are.

00:17:11Oh, man.

00:17:12And I just wanted

00:17:13to play a role

00:17:14so she could see me win.

00:17:16No?

00:17:17No, I don't care about anyone.

00:17:18Oh, man.

00:17:18Maybe I was wrong.

00:17:19I'm going to fuck with him.

00:17:20I really do.

00:17:22And then you died.

00:17:24Come on, right here, mom.

00:17:25I'm right here.

00:17:25Right next to you.

00:17:26It's okay.

00:17:27So that definitely

00:17:28had an influence

00:17:28on just wanting to,

00:17:30you know.

00:17:31Are there tweaks

00:17:31that you made

00:17:32in those sort of conversations

00:17:33with the director

00:17:34that you said,

00:17:35okay,

00:17:35here's what we're going

00:17:37to have to do

00:17:38to make me feel comfortable

00:17:39playing this character

00:17:40in this world

00:17:42we're living in?

00:17:42Well, I kind of

00:17:43wrapped my brain around it

00:17:44and kind of once I got,

00:17:45once I saw the full scope

00:17:46of what the movie

00:17:46was supposed to be

00:17:47and what we're trying to say,

00:17:48I was kind of on board.

00:17:49Obviously,

00:17:50Guy Montag

00:17:51was not written for,

00:17:52you know,

00:17:52a 30-year-old black guy

00:17:53at the time.

00:17:54So there were certain things

00:17:55that was still

00:17:56very true to the book

00:17:57that we had to,

00:17:58you know,

00:17:59we had to make a little bit

00:18:00more authentic for myself.

00:18:01So we kind of crafted

00:18:02those up a little bit.

00:18:03And once we got that

00:18:04out the way,

00:18:05it was smooth sailing.

00:18:06Darren,

00:18:07you played a famously

00:18:08homicidal real person.

00:18:09Did any part of that

00:18:11give you pause?

00:18:12This particular person

00:18:13had very lasting effects

00:18:16on people who are still alive

00:18:18and the echoes of the tragedy

00:18:20and destruction that he wrought.

00:18:21You know,

00:18:22I couldn't help but think about,

00:18:24you know,

00:18:24the sons and daughters

00:18:25and cousins

00:18:25and husbands and wives

00:18:26of people

00:18:27that were affected by this guy

00:18:28that, I don't know,

00:18:29maybe they watched

00:18:29the first season of Crime Story

00:18:31and they're like the OJ show

00:18:32and now they're like,

00:18:33oh God,

00:18:34they're doing this

00:18:34about Uncle So-and-So.

00:18:36This is like,

00:18:37we have to revisit this

00:18:3820 years later

00:18:39and make it pop-cultural

00:18:40zeitgeist fodder.

00:18:42Like that's a little,

00:18:43so that weighs on me

00:18:44a little bit.

00:18:46But once you take

00:18:47this sort of,

00:18:48I guess,

00:18:48that gravitas

00:18:49of real life tragedy

00:18:50out of it,

00:18:51I mean,

00:18:51as an actor

00:18:52and as a craftsman,

00:18:53so to speak,

00:18:53yeah,

00:18:54like those are the projects

00:18:55we wake up for

00:18:56in the morning.

00:18:57I can't lose him.

00:18:59I can't.

00:19:00I just can't.

00:19:00Hey,

00:19:01you've got it bad for him.

00:19:05He's a house.

00:19:07He's a home.

00:19:09He's a yard

00:19:10and a family

00:19:12and picking kids up

00:19:15from school.

00:19:17He's,

00:19:17he's a future.

00:19:21And up until now,

00:19:22I've only dated the past.

00:19:23I remember reading

00:19:24how you wanted to find

00:19:25the sort of,

00:19:25the endearing qualities,

00:19:27the good pieces

00:19:28to be able to play.

00:19:29Yeah,

00:19:30I mean,

00:19:30but that's,

00:19:30I mean,

00:19:31that's our job.

00:19:31Like,

00:19:31we're in the business

00:19:32of empathy.

00:19:33Like,

00:19:33it doesn't matter

00:19:34what my personal

00:19:35moral spectrum is.

00:19:36It's like,

00:19:36you're inhabiting this person.

00:19:38You know,

00:19:38heroes don't necessarily

00:19:40know they're,

00:19:41well,

00:19:41maybe heroes,

00:19:42but crazy people

00:19:42don't know they're crazy.

00:19:43You know,

00:19:43we're all just,

00:19:44we're empathizing

00:19:44with these people

00:19:45regardless of

00:19:46them being real

00:19:47or not.

00:19:48Sure.

00:19:49Jeff,

00:19:49obviously,

00:19:50you can play off that

00:19:51with Looming Tower.

00:19:52This,

00:19:52I mean,

00:19:52I don't know

00:19:53if you had

00:19:53similar concerns.

00:19:55You're shooting

00:19:55this thing in New York.

00:19:57What are

00:19:57the sort of

00:19:58the conversations,

00:19:59the fears going in

00:20:00about how it's

00:20:01going to be received?

00:20:02There are plenty

00:20:03of families

00:20:04who may find

00:20:06this cathartic.

00:20:06they may find

00:20:07this terrifying.

00:20:09I didn't get

00:20:09the vibe

00:20:10that the family

00:20:10or extended family

00:20:14was interested.

00:20:16So,

00:20:16out of respect,

00:20:17I just,

00:20:18I didn't go there.

00:20:19I went to the FBI partners.

00:20:21I went to

00:20:21Ali Safan himself.

00:20:24I went to

00:20:2410 FBI guys

00:20:26sitting in a bar

00:20:26for three hours

00:20:27just listening

00:20:28about John,

00:20:29the good,

00:20:29the bad,

00:20:29the strength,

00:20:30until I had enough

00:20:31to go,

00:20:32all right,

00:20:32I know how to do this now.

00:20:34Okay.

00:20:35That's all I need.

00:20:35Thanks.

00:20:36Our office knows

00:20:37more about Al-Qaeda

00:20:38than anybody.

00:20:39WFO will be

00:20:40playing catch-up

00:20:41and they're a pawn

00:20:41of Alex Station.

00:20:43Schmidt just wants

00:20:43the case over there

00:20:44so we can direct it remotely.

00:20:45John, calm down.

00:20:46I really wish people

00:20:48would stop telling me

00:20:49to calm down.

00:20:50There are bombs

00:20:50going off around the world

00:20:51that doesn't make me

00:20:52feel calm.

00:20:53I want you to calm down

00:20:54because you're right.

00:20:56I'm sorry?

00:20:56You're right.

00:20:57You should have this case.

00:20:59That kind of opens you up

00:21:00to kind of do

00:21:00what you think

00:21:01John was thinking

00:21:02and all of that.

00:21:03But that to me

00:21:04is more important

00:21:05is telling the narrative.

00:21:07I mean,

00:21:07getting the essence

00:21:08of whatever the story is.

00:21:09Like,

00:21:10obviously,

00:21:11you don't look

00:21:11exactly like him

00:21:12and speak like him.

00:21:13You would be impossible

00:21:14to assume that.

00:21:15So I think there's a very...

00:21:16But you get the spirit.

00:21:17You get the strengths

00:21:17and weaknesses

00:21:18and based on true events

00:21:20and things they said

00:21:21some of the time

00:21:23and then you fill in the rest.

00:21:25Yeah, exactly.

00:21:26And you're trying to honor

00:21:27the spirit of the documentary.

00:21:28The emotional truth.

00:21:29And the guy you care about

00:21:30with me was Ali Soufan.

00:21:32Ali knew him

00:21:33and studied

00:21:33and was with him

00:21:35for years.

00:21:36How'd I do?

00:21:38And if you get a thumbs up,

00:21:40which I did,

00:21:41you're done.

00:21:41Good.

00:21:41That's the end of validation.

00:21:43With critics,

00:21:44everybody else,

00:21:46done.

00:21:47Do you watch,

00:21:48like,

00:21:48will you go to play back

00:21:50and watch?

00:21:51Or even when it's all done,

00:21:52will you watch?

00:21:52I didn't know

00:21:53this was an option

00:21:54because I was never

00:21:55high enough in the totem pole

00:21:57to where I would dare to ask.

00:21:59But it was actually offered

00:22:01to me by a focus puller

00:22:02because I was very concerned

00:22:03with the technical aspect

00:22:05of a very long shot

00:22:06and I was so terrified

00:22:07of having messed something up.

00:22:08I was like,

00:22:08do you mind if I watch it?

00:22:10I'm so sorry.

00:22:11I know we've got to keep going.

00:22:12They're like,

00:22:12you know,

00:22:12you're not allowed to ask

00:22:13at any point.

00:22:14Really?

00:22:14You shouldn't have told me that.

00:22:16So I did, yeah,

00:22:17once or twice,

00:22:18but I think I've,

00:22:19it's just best not to know, man.

00:22:20Do you watch your stuff?

00:22:21No.

00:22:22Do you watch your stuff?

00:22:23I've only recently started

00:22:24to watch more

00:22:25because of the technicality

00:22:26of the boxing stuff

00:22:27or if it's technical stuff

00:22:29or, but then

00:22:30in watching the boxing stuff,

00:22:31no, I've actually started

00:22:32to pay attention

00:22:33to the performance

00:22:33and I was like,

00:22:34okay, so then

00:22:34in other scenes,

00:22:35I'm like, okay,

00:22:36let me see if that

00:22:37I think I'm slipping

00:22:39down that slope.

00:22:40There's a disconnect.

00:22:42It's never satisfying

00:22:43as when between action

00:22:46and cut.

00:22:47That's, that's the peak,

00:22:49right?

00:22:50And I think it has

00:22:52to do with theater.

00:22:53I remember I was doing

00:22:54something with somebody

00:22:55who was, she was a major star

00:22:56at the time

00:22:57and, and, and they had

00:22:59Video Village

00:22:59and she'd go over

00:23:01between each take

00:23:01and it was three minutes

00:23:03between each take.

00:23:04Got it, okay.

00:23:05That's different.

00:23:06I'm just, I'm just like that

00:23:07and, you know,

00:23:08we weren't getting along anyway

00:23:09and she came over

00:23:11and says,

00:23:11why don't you watch yourself?

00:23:13You could learn something.

00:23:14I said, we don't.

00:23:16Nice.

00:23:17And I said,

00:23:17we don't have dailies

00:23:19on Broadway.

00:23:20There you go.

00:23:21Shots fired.

00:23:22Shots fired, exactly.

00:23:23Right on, right on the,

00:23:26I don't even say.

00:23:26I also,

00:23:27and maybe it's getting older,

00:23:29is that I don't want to know.

00:23:31I don't, I don't,

00:23:31I want to,

00:23:32I want to get to cut.

00:23:33That's why I asked you about,

00:23:35and I've directed

00:23:35and acted and written,

00:23:36so I know that kind of

00:23:38two hats while you're

00:23:39in front of the camera thing.

00:23:40And it's,

00:23:41you can do it,

00:23:41absolutely you can do it.

00:23:43But I,

00:23:44it works best for me

00:23:45when I get to cut

00:23:46and I don't remember

00:23:48what I did.

00:23:48Right.

00:23:49The impulses that you're doing,

00:23:50the five words or less

00:23:52that you got from the director.

00:23:53Great.

00:23:54Boom, boom.

00:23:54It's between action.

00:23:55That's what film acting is, right?

00:23:57But I've learned so much

00:23:58about what I can get away

00:24:00with not doing

00:24:01based on watching stuff.

00:24:04Even just down to size,

00:24:05you know,

00:24:06I mean,

00:24:06well,

00:24:07you can ask,

00:24:08you know,

00:24:08the AC,

00:24:08well,

00:24:08what's,

00:24:09well,

00:24:09you know,

00:24:09you're doing 75

00:24:10or is that 32?

00:24:11You know,

00:24:11like,

00:24:11just like,

00:24:12if I'm acting nervous

00:24:13with my finger down here,

00:24:14well,

00:24:14that's not,

00:24:15that's not in the frame.

00:24:15I better,

00:24:16you know,

00:24:16be pulling on my collar

00:24:17a little bit or scratch,

00:24:18you know,

00:24:19stuff like that on the day.

00:24:20But then when you see it all coalesce

00:24:22with the final product

00:24:24and you get a sense of,

00:24:26oh,

00:24:26there could be music

00:24:27that comes in this later.

00:24:28It's just understanding

00:24:30how it all comes together

00:24:31and how you come across

00:24:32versus how you felt that day

00:24:34was really helpful for me

00:24:36to try to constantly try

00:24:38to take everything down,

00:24:39down,

00:24:39down.

00:24:40See,

00:24:41I feel like I still don't know.

00:24:42Like,

00:24:42I never learned,

00:24:43I never studied

00:24:45camera acting

00:24:47because I started,

00:24:48I did theater for 20 years

00:24:50and nobody was offering

00:24:51to put a camera,

00:24:53you know,

00:24:53put me on a camera.

00:24:54And when,

00:24:55and the first time

00:24:56that I had an opportunity

00:24:57to do something significant

00:24:58on camera was,

00:24:59again,

00:25:00Tom Fontana.

00:25:02Still here.

00:25:03A guest spot,

00:25:04still here.

00:25:05A guest spot on Homicide,

00:25:08the great series

00:25:09with the great cast.

00:25:10And,

00:25:11and I,

00:25:12it was,

00:25:13it was like a one act play.

00:25:14We had a scene

00:25:15in the interrogation room

00:25:16that was like 12 pages

00:25:18with Andre Brower

00:25:19and Kyle Sikora

00:25:20and myself.

00:25:21And,

00:25:21and once that aired,

00:25:22and this is back in the,

00:25:24you know,

00:25:24the VCR days,

00:25:25you know,

00:25:25I recorded it

00:25:26and I,

00:25:27I mean,

00:25:27I looked at every single beat

00:25:29and I dissected it

00:25:30over and over and over

00:25:31just to critique my own work

00:25:33because I was new at this

00:25:34and I was a theater actor

00:25:36and I didn't know,

00:25:37you know,

00:25:37when I was true

00:25:39and when I was false.

00:25:40And I,

00:25:40and I,

00:25:41I mean,

00:25:42I,

00:25:42I wore out that VCR tape,

00:25:44you know,

00:25:45being self-critical

00:25:46but also giving myself credit

00:25:47for,

00:25:48for moments that work.

00:25:49And it's become,

00:25:51ever since then,

00:25:51I've gone almost polar opposite,

00:25:53not quite as far as Jeff has gone,

00:25:55but I've,

00:25:55I've gotten to the point

00:25:56where now where I feel like

00:25:57there's a level of,

00:25:59of self-consciousness

00:26:01that I,

00:26:01that I want to avoid.

00:26:03And I don't,

00:26:05I don't avoid my work.

00:26:07I,

00:26:07I watch it,

00:26:08you know,

00:26:08sometimes,

00:26:10but not always.

00:26:11And,

00:26:11and I think,

00:26:12I think it's best for me

00:26:15at this point

00:26:16not to,

00:26:17not to obsess about

00:26:20the,

00:26:20the minutiae like that.

00:26:21Was initially,

00:26:22was initially,

00:26:22was it illuminating that

00:26:23coming from the theater,

00:26:25you've got to be able

00:26:25to hit the back row

00:26:26as well as the front row.

00:26:27Was it illuminating that

00:26:28it's,

00:26:28it's all front row

00:26:29with the camera?

00:26:30In other words,

00:26:31if I,

00:26:31if I try to hit the back row,

00:26:33I'm going to be overdoing it

00:26:34for camera acting.

00:26:35Yeah,

00:26:35I mean,

00:26:35that,

00:26:36that was kind of a given

00:26:38going in,

00:26:39you know,

00:26:39and especially with,

00:26:40and I was so fortunate

00:26:41to have such wonderful

00:26:42writing and,

00:26:43and great scene partners,

00:26:44you know,

00:26:45early on.

00:26:46You know,

00:26:46I wasn't doing a,

00:26:47you know,

00:26:48a guest spot

00:26:48on some schlocky something

00:26:50or on a soap opera

00:26:51or,

00:26:51or whatever.

00:26:52I was,

00:26:52it was like doing

00:26:54really good material

00:26:54with really good actors.

00:26:55So it was just familiar

00:26:56and I just,

00:26:58you know,

00:26:58I mean,

00:26:58I,

00:26:58I knew enough instinctively

00:27:00to know,

00:27:01you know,

00:27:02there is nobody

00:27:02any farther away

00:27:03that's listening to me.

00:27:04And off,

00:27:05going from off Broadway

00:27:06to film,

00:27:07there was no,

00:27:08I remember in the seven,

00:27:09late 70s,

00:27:10early 80s,

00:27:10there was so,

00:27:11oh,

00:27:11got a transition,

00:27:12got to bring it down,

00:27:13less is more.

00:27:14And all these Broadway actors

00:27:16that we were in waiting rooms with,

00:27:18you know,

00:27:18they were big,

00:27:19they were filling the 1500 seaters.

00:27:21We're filling 150 seats.

00:27:23So there was no transition.

00:27:25We were already,

00:27:25you know,

00:27:26media,

00:27:27you know.

00:27:27With you guys,

00:27:40I mean,

00:27:40how does,

00:27:40have you been surprised

00:27:41by the feedback

00:27:42that you get?

00:27:43Is it what you anticipated

00:27:45on your shows?

00:27:46I mean,

00:27:46you,

00:27:46you got the whole run

00:27:47of your show.

00:27:48Is it how you thought

00:27:49when you guys are,

00:27:50are in production

00:27:52versus once it lands

00:27:53on people's TV sets?

00:27:54Yeah,

00:27:55it was,

00:27:55it was a strange one

00:27:56because it was so heavily

00:27:59steeped in truth.

00:28:00Uh-huh.

00:28:00But it's so fantastical.

00:28:01Uh-huh.

00:28:02So your,

00:28:02the challenge felt

00:28:03was where to land it tonally

00:28:05because you read it,

00:28:06you could read it as a farce.

00:28:07You go,

00:28:07this is ridiculous.

00:28:08And what the KGB

00:28:09in the United States

00:28:10in the early 80s

00:28:10were doing

00:28:11was farcical.

00:28:12So you're going,

00:28:13how do I land this

00:28:14in a credible real place

00:28:15that the audience

00:28:16follows you?

00:28:17And, you know,

00:28:18because as much as

00:28:18I'd go to the right

00:28:19and go,

00:28:19this is ridiculous.

00:28:20And they go,

00:28:20I know,

00:28:21but it happened.

00:28:22So you kind of go,

00:28:23what do I do then?

00:28:24They're like,

00:28:25make it look real.

00:28:25And you go,

00:28:26okay.

00:28:27So it was always tonally,

00:28:29that was the greatest challenge

00:28:30of going,

00:28:31I was always going,

00:28:31oh my God,

00:28:32how'd you land this?

00:28:33Things are changing

00:28:34back home,

00:28:35opening up.

00:28:37And it's not just politics.

00:28:38It's,

00:28:38it's the young people.

00:28:40It's music.

00:28:41It's different.

00:28:42I mean,

00:28:42they're talking about

00:28:43opening a pizza hut

00:28:44in Moscow.

00:28:44You see the papers.

00:28:48What?

00:28:49The Washington Post?

00:28:51You know,

00:28:51all this talk,

00:28:52perestroika and glasnost,

00:28:54the Americans eat it up.

00:28:56They want us to be

00:28:57just like them.

00:28:58I don't want

00:28:59to be like them.

00:29:01One of the best accolades,

00:29:02again,

00:29:02was in the third season.

00:29:03They were called illegals.

00:29:04They weren't even called spies.

00:29:05We had a real illegal

00:29:06who was a guy

00:29:07from East Germany

00:29:09who was trained

00:29:09six years in Moscow,

00:29:11adopted an American accent,

00:29:14spent time in Canada,

00:29:15brought into New York

00:29:15with the most ridiculous

00:29:17mandates from the KGB.

00:29:19And he just went,

00:29:20you got it right.

00:29:21And you go,

00:29:21oh, great.

00:29:23Sadly,

00:29:23that's only one man.

00:29:24That's not the audience.

00:29:25That's enough.

00:29:26I know.

00:29:27But you do.

00:29:27You just go,

00:29:27oh, great.

00:29:29Great.

00:29:30So that,

00:29:30those,

00:29:30it's those moments

00:29:31you go,

00:29:32oh.

00:29:32Yeah,

00:29:33you hang on to those.

00:29:33Yes.

00:29:34I'll write that

00:29:35on the mirror.

00:29:36And what about,

00:29:37what about you?

00:29:37What's the preparation process?

00:29:39These two different guys?

00:29:40What is,

00:29:41is there one

00:29:42you're more comfortable in?

00:29:45Well,

00:29:45yeah,

00:29:45I was actually drawn

00:29:46to this before

00:29:47I got the script

00:29:48and as my agent

00:29:50has learned,

00:29:50I don't want to

00:29:51know anything else

00:29:52before I read the script.

00:29:54So I didn't realize

00:29:56that there was this,

00:29:58you're playing two guys.

00:29:59So I read the first 20 pages

00:30:01and I'm falling in love

00:30:02with this,

00:30:02the way Justin

00:30:03is telling the story

00:30:04of this sad sack,

00:30:06lowly cog

00:30:07in this Fritz Lang

00:30:08awful,

00:30:10you know,

00:30:10dystopia.

00:30:11And,

00:30:12and then I get to page 20

00:30:13and I go,

00:30:14you know,

00:30:15I mean,

00:30:16and I had this moment

00:30:17that I wished audiences

00:30:17could have,

00:30:18you know,

00:30:19that of course

00:30:20they don't

00:30:20because,

00:30:20because you have

00:30:21to market the show.

00:30:32I thought it was like

00:30:53this domestic drama,

00:30:55now it's become

00:30:56this spy thing

00:30:57and a sci-fi aspect

00:30:59of an alternate universe

00:31:01or parallel-ish universe.

00:31:04And I went back

00:31:05and immediately read

00:31:05the whole thing again

00:31:06from beginning to end

00:31:07from the point of view

00:31:08of the other version

00:31:09of Howard,

00:31:10the character.

00:31:12And,

00:31:12and,

00:31:12you know,

00:31:13that dichotomy

00:31:14was,

00:31:15you know,

00:31:16doubly interesting.

00:31:17But I mean,

00:31:18I really,

00:31:18I would have signed up

00:31:19just to play,

00:31:20just to play that,

00:31:21that sad sack.

00:31:22Much easier.

00:31:23Much less work.

00:31:24Well,

00:31:24it would have been

00:31:24a lot less work.

00:31:25Much less work.

00:31:26What about for you,

00:31:27Jason?

00:31:28Obviously you're wearing

00:31:28many,

00:31:29many hats in this one.

00:31:30Does,

00:31:30does that make it

00:31:31easier in some ways?

00:31:32I've been certainly

00:31:33more time consuming,

00:31:35but how does it change

00:31:35sort of your approach

00:31:36to the character

00:31:37and,

00:31:38and the story?

00:31:39Knowing that,

00:31:40that I'm doing more

00:31:42than,

00:31:42than just the acting on it,

00:31:43I,

00:31:44I,

00:31:44I'm,

00:31:45I'm,

00:31:45I'm sorry,

00:31:45just be,

00:31:46do you say just be acting?

00:31:47Just, just be acting.

00:31:48Easy stuff.

00:31:49You did say that.

00:31:50Yeah.

00:31:51Let me,

00:31:52we can pull that back,

00:31:53right?

00:31:54Yeah,

00:31:54for sure.

00:31:55By doing more

00:31:56than the acting of,

00:31:59and it allows me,

00:32:00I think,

00:32:01I hope,

00:32:02to hit this,

00:32:03this tonal target

00:32:04that I,

00:32:05I,

00:32:05I wanted to

00:32:06when I,

00:32:07when I read the,

00:32:08the,

00:32:08the first two episodes,

00:32:09which were the ones

00:32:10that were written.

00:32:11It was a,

00:32:12it was a,

00:32:12a directing hope

00:32:14for me.

00:32:14I wanted to direct

00:32:15a 600 page movie.

00:32:17You know,

00:32:17I said,

00:32:17well,

00:32:18I'll do it

00:32:18if they'd let me

00:32:19direct all the episodes.

00:32:20Because I just kind of

00:32:21love this world.

00:32:22I wanted to be able

00:32:23to like figure out

00:32:24what it looked like,

00:32:24what it sounded like

00:32:25and all that stuff.

00:32:25And I knew that

00:32:26by playing the central character,

00:32:27I might,

00:32:28by having two hands

00:32:28on the wheel,

00:32:29you know,

00:32:29one in front of the camera

00:32:30and one behind,

00:32:31it might increase

00:32:32my odds of hitting

00:32:33that,

00:32:33that little target.

00:32:35Sir,

00:32:35there's no business

00:32:36opportunities that require

00:32:37that much cash.

00:32:38Not legal ones.

00:32:39Well,

00:32:40I agree to disagree.

00:32:43Where's my money?

00:32:45As we told you,

00:32:45we can't cover that amount

00:32:46within 24 hours.

00:32:48Okay.

00:32:51There's two federal agents here,

00:32:54which means

00:32:54you wouldn't take the chance

00:32:55that there was a kidnapping

00:32:57and not have my money.

00:32:58So if you don't produce it

00:32:59immediately,

00:33:00I'm going to walk

00:33:00into that lobby

00:33:01and I'm going to tell

00:33:01these people

00:33:02that I can't get my money out.

00:33:03And we'll see how long

00:33:04that takes to go viral

00:33:05and you get a good

00:33:06old-fashioned run

00:33:06on this bank.

00:33:07It changed the way

00:33:08in which I performed

00:33:09the character

00:33:09because I knew

00:33:10I would just be

00:33:11noting myself.

00:33:12I could,

00:33:13I could,

00:33:13I could be

00:33:14super subtle

00:33:16in this scene

00:33:16because I know

00:33:17I'll be in the editing room

00:33:18and I'll be able

00:33:18to kind of make sure

00:33:19I steal that look,

00:33:20which means

00:33:21I don't have to lean

00:33:22into that line

00:33:22or I can cut that line

00:33:24and I'll play it

00:33:25with a little bit of a...

00:33:25Must be nice.

00:33:26Right?

00:33:26Must be nice.

00:33:28The editing room.

00:33:29Okay.

00:33:30Geppetto and Pinocchio.

00:33:33So that was kind of,

00:33:35that's the excitement

00:33:36of that.

00:33:37I'm doing this all around.

00:33:37So let me get this.

00:33:38You're in front of the camera

00:33:39editing.

00:33:42I mean,

00:33:43but I think

00:33:43we all do that.

00:33:44To some extent

00:33:45where he just looked away.

00:33:46I won't use that.

00:33:47No.

00:33:48You guys are all talented enough

00:33:49to know what I'm talking about

00:33:50where you're,

00:33:51you're,

00:33:51you're sort of playing

00:33:53with shading something

00:33:56or juxtaposing a line

00:33:58with a look

00:33:59and you just hope

00:34:00that either the director

00:34:01or the editor

00:34:02are going to kind of see that

00:34:03and either use that

00:34:04or make sure

00:34:05that the music

00:34:06doesn't,

00:34:07doesn't overdo it

00:34:08and now you look like

00:34:09you've overplayed the line.

00:34:10There's a lot of trust

00:34:11because there's so much

00:34:11more work

00:34:12downstream

00:34:13than the shooting

00:34:15and so

00:34:15that's the exciting part

00:34:17of this for me.

00:34:17Just when you're hitting

00:34:18the tone that you know

00:34:19in your head

00:34:19you're going for it.

00:34:21That's interesting.

00:34:22That's nice.

00:34:22And hopefully the editor

00:34:23can pick up on that.

00:34:25That's been

00:34:26one of the biggest surprises

00:34:27of doing more film

00:34:29and TV stuff

00:34:30of late

00:34:30is the fact that,

00:34:32you know,

00:34:32because in the theater

00:34:33it's kind of all

00:34:34in the actor's hands

00:34:35for better

00:34:35or for worse

00:34:36and with this shit

00:34:38with the American crime story

00:34:40there were so many times

00:34:41where I was like

00:34:41man I look a lot better

00:34:42than I remember being.

00:34:44That was great.

00:34:44Or conversely

00:34:45where I go

00:34:45gosh

00:34:46you know there's that music cue

00:34:47that is much more terrifying

00:34:48than I remember being

00:34:49you know you're in a quiet room

00:34:50playing a scene

00:34:51in a very quiet moment

00:34:52and all of a sudden

00:34:52it's

00:34:53and it's great

00:34:54you're like wow

00:34:55this is really intense

00:34:55and scary

00:34:56I don't remember it being that way

00:34:57and there's so many things

00:34:58that are out of your control

00:34:59and I envy that ability

00:35:01to sort of curate

00:35:02that whole thing.

00:35:02It's really fun.

00:35:03But again trust

00:35:03you trust the people

00:35:04that you're with

00:35:04and I'm pleased as punch

00:35:07with my certain thing.

00:35:07I'm also not trying

00:35:08to throw anybody

00:35:09under the bus

00:35:09if you don't like my music cue

00:35:10I'm like it's great.

00:35:12For the rest of you

00:35:12what makes you uncomfortable

00:35:14as an actor

00:35:14are there lines you won't cross

00:35:16things you won't do

00:35:17whether it's nudity

00:35:19it's whatever it is.

00:35:20I was going to say

00:35:21I was on Oz

00:35:22so clearly I

00:35:22no boundaries whatsoever.

00:35:26But truly

00:35:26was that ever uncomfortable?

00:35:28Of course it was

00:35:29yeah yeah

00:35:29but that was

00:35:30God bless Tom Fontana

00:35:31I don't know why I'm looking up

00:35:32he's still here.

00:35:33He's in New York

00:35:35he's doing great everybody.

00:35:36You know the thing

00:35:39that he always

00:35:40always bragged on

00:35:41about that show

00:35:42was that his actors

00:35:43were courageous

00:35:44you know

00:35:45and we were just

00:35:46a bunch of young

00:35:46dumbasses that

00:35:47signed up

00:35:48I mean I was one

00:35:49of the older guys

00:35:50you know

00:35:50most of us had

00:35:51a theater background

00:35:52and here we were

00:35:54on HBO

00:35:55and trying to pretend

00:35:56to be tough guys

00:35:57everybody except

00:35:59Chuck Zito

00:36:00who you know

00:36:00was the only

00:36:01actual tough guy

00:36:02and we just

00:36:03you know

00:36:03as directed

00:36:04you know

00:36:05we just

00:36:05we just went

00:36:06where he pointed us

00:36:07and there was

00:36:08there was one time

00:36:10in 56 episodes

00:36:11where Tom actually

00:36:13called me

00:36:14ahead of time

00:36:15to say

00:36:15I want to know

00:36:16if you're okay with it

00:36:17and this was

00:36:18in like season four

00:36:19and I'm like

00:36:20okay well

00:36:21you've had me

00:36:22rape men

00:36:24you've had me

00:36:25murder men

00:36:26you've had me

00:36:27tattoo men

00:36:27you've had me

00:36:28crucify men

00:36:29but I want you to sing

00:36:30you've had somebody

00:36:30poop on my face

00:36:31oh my god

00:36:32and he said

00:36:33and that's

00:36:34I said

00:36:34what the hell

00:36:35do you want me to do

00:36:36and he said

00:36:36I want to do

00:36:36a musical episode

00:36:37oh really

00:36:37no way

00:36:38no way

00:36:39it was an episode

00:36:40where because

00:36:41because one

00:36:41one of the things

00:36:42that made him

00:36:43to great boss

00:36:43was he let

00:36:44he let people

00:36:45go do their thing

00:36:46you know

00:36:46when somebody got

00:36:47and Harold Perrineau

00:36:48had an opportunity

00:36:49to go do

00:36:50the Matrix movies

00:36:50Harold was our

00:36:52Greek chorus

00:36:53he was the man

00:36:53in the box

00:36:54right

00:36:54so he had to do

00:36:56some other version

00:36:57of the Greek chorus

00:36:58and he decided

00:36:59he had a bunch

00:37:00he had

00:37:00we had Patti LuPone

00:37:02we had Joel Grey

00:37:03we had all these

00:37:04like Broadway

00:37:05you know

00:37:06singers

00:37:06and so he thought

00:37:07alright

00:37:07that's what we're

00:37:08going to do this year

00:37:09Harold's going to be

00:37:10in Australia

00:37:11making money

00:37:12doing the big movie

00:37:13and we're going to

00:37:13do some music

00:37:14so poop on the face

00:37:14doesn't get a phone call

00:37:15but the musical

00:37:16but will you sing

00:37:17I was like

00:37:17yeah

00:37:18that'll be fine

00:37:19you obviously

00:37:22had a very memorable

00:37:23episode of girls

00:37:24in the final season

00:37:26I believe

00:37:27yeah

00:37:27was that

00:37:28an easy yes

00:37:29what was

00:37:30what was

00:37:30that like on set

00:37:32did you have concerns

00:37:34yeah you know

00:37:35there's obviously

00:37:35you know

00:37:36I had to

00:37:37for those who don't

00:37:38I had to take my

00:37:38penis out

00:37:39and put it on

00:37:40Lena Dunham

00:37:40at the end of the episode

00:37:41but not my penis

00:37:42when you say on her

00:37:43yeah on her thigh

00:37:44that's when I knew

00:37:46it would be prosthetic

00:37:47did you have a choice

00:37:48of like preference

00:37:49of the words

00:37:50literally when I

00:37:51literally

00:37:51the props guy

00:37:52bigger on an arm

00:37:53I know

00:37:55there's the producer

00:37:57director

00:37:57there's the right

00:37:58to produce a director

00:37:59yes

00:38:00we used our own

00:38:01penis

00:38:01yes

00:38:02drag on the day

00:38:03I know

00:38:04it's such a luxury

00:38:05you get to choose

00:38:06the props guy

00:38:07just went

00:38:07do you want to

00:38:07choose your penis

00:38:08and I was like

00:38:09and then you have

00:38:10that in the conversation

00:38:11where you go

00:38:11if I choose

00:38:13a huge penis

00:38:14or a small

00:38:16so I was like

00:38:17I'll leave it

00:38:18in your capable head

00:38:19and he went

00:38:20somewhere in the middle

00:38:21I was like

00:38:22bingo

00:38:22thank you

00:38:23and that was it

00:38:24but yes

00:38:25you know

00:38:25so that took away

00:38:26the element

00:38:27of greater concern

00:38:29but the right

00:38:30did you think

00:38:31it was real

00:38:31I knew it wasn't

00:38:32you knew it wasn't

00:38:33I knew it wasn't

00:38:34how did you know

00:38:35yeah

00:38:35I think I had

00:38:36I think I had read it

00:38:37let's not

00:38:38let's not

00:38:39let's not

00:38:40and moving on

00:38:41I think

00:38:41I mean

00:38:42that's

00:38:42I think you're

00:38:43explicitly talking

00:38:44specifically

00:38:45speaking about

00:38:46things that

00:38:47personally

00:38:47you're uncomfortable

00:38:48with

00:38:48but I think

00:38:50in a sort of

00:38:50bizarre way

00:38:51those are tied

00:38:51to sort of

00:38:52like grander challenges

00:38:53hopefully if it's done

00:38:54tastefully

00:38:54I mean if we're

00:38:55specifically looking

00:38:55at nudity

00:38:56but I think

00:38:57in general

00:38:58anytime somebody

00:38:59goes okay

00:39:00I have something

00:39:01that might

00:39:02make you

00:39:03I'm like

00:39:03bring it

00:39:04what could possibly

00:39:07make you shaky

00:39:08like I'm interested

00:39:09in that

00:39:10with a grain of salt

00:39:12obviously

00:39:12but you know

00:39:12it's that

00:39:13it is compelling

00:39:14to know

00:39:14what compels

00:39:15other people

00:39:16you know

00:39:16so

00:39:17I've never had

00:39:19that happen

00:39:19to me personally

00:39:20if something's

00:39:20been approached

00:39:21I've been approached

00:39:21with something

00:39:22that was

00:39:22there's like

00:39:24two categories

00:39:24I think

00:39:24there's like

00:39:25scary scary

00:39:26and excited scary

00:39:26yeah sure

00:39:27like to me

00:39:28dancing is scary

00:39:29and then like

00:39:30you know

00:39:31playing other parts

00:39:32is exciting scary

00:39:33challenging

00:39:34I'm with you

00:39:34I didn't even dance

00:39:35at my own wedding

00:39:36brilliant

00:39:37it's still an issue

00:39:38my respect

00:39:39it's gone up

00:39:40refused to get up

00:39:41oh I was up

00:39:43so obviously

00:39:46the world has changed

00:39:48Hollywood world

00:39:48and the world beyond

00:39:49in the last

00:39:50however many months

00:39:51whether you define it

00:39:53as the Me Too era

00:39:54or the Time's Up era

00:39:55how has your

00:39:56sort of perspective

00:39:57your conversations

00:39:58be it on set

00:39:59or off

00:40:00changed

00:40:01in that time

00:40:02I'm just gonna

00:40:04jump in there

00:40:05because I think

00:40:06the perception

00:40:07I mean Hollywood

00:40:08is you know

00:40:09obviously a self-obsessed

00:40:11place

00:40:12and then the perception

00:40:13of this as a

00:40:14Hollywood issue

00:40:15it's not a Hollywood issue

00:40:16you know

00:40:17is the main thing

00:40:18that I take issue with

00:40:19and I don't think

00:40:21I mean

00:40:21obviously having

00:40:23a heightened awareness

00:40:24of this

00:40:24and people being

00:40:25you know

00:40:26discovered

00:40:28and called on the carpet

00:40:29and prosecuted

00:40:30you know presumably

00:40:31is good for everybody

00:40:34involved

00:40:34except for the

00:40:35culprits who

00:40:36are deserving

00:40:37but it

00:40:39but it's

00:40:39it's way

00:40:40way way

00:40:41way beyond Hollywood

00:40:42and anywhere

00:40:43where anyone

00:40:43is taking advantage

00:40:44of their position

00:40:45of power

00:40:46in order to usurp

00:40:47others

00:40:48is you know

00:40:49criminal

00:40:50and that's why

00:40:51I'm glad

00:40:52this light

00:40:52is shining

00:40:53on that issue

00:40:54I mean one of the things

00:40:56that came out of it

00:40:56is this sort of

00:40:57discussion about

00:40:58pay parity

00:40:58is that a

00:40:59conversation you guys

00:41:01will start to have

00:41:03with your producers

00:41:05with your co-stars

00:41:06do you feel a responsibility

00:41:07to be having those

00:41:08conversations

00:41:09I think the industry

00:41:11has become much more

00:41:12concept driven

00:41:13premise driven

00:41:14IP driven

00:41:15as opposed to star driven

00:41:17is even more

00:41:18of a fertile ground

00:41:19for the

00:41:21the

00:41:22the no brainer

00:41:25of parody

00:41:25it's like

00:41:26there's

00:41:27there's

00:41:27if they were ever saying

00:41:28well you know

00:41:29dudes bring in

00:41:30more audience

00:41:30than girls

00:41:31that's crazy

00:41:33always has been

00:41:34and now

00:41:35those idiots

00:41:36have even less

00:41:37of a box of standoff

00:41:38I was going to say

00:41:38that I think

00:41:39anything that affects

00:41:41the cultural landscape

00:41:43at all

00:41:43whether it's

00:41:44Hollywood

00:41:44or just

00:41:45in the world landscape

00:41:46what's interesting

00:41:47is the way

00:41:49that it's shaping

00:41:49the narratives

00:41:50that we're interested in

00:41:51the same way

00:41:52that you know

00:41:53when we were in

00:41:53war time

00:41:54the way that

00:41:54that shaped

00:41:55a lot of the narratives

00:41:56of films

00:41:56that during that time

00:41:57in the early half

00:41:58of the 20th century

00:41:59and how

00:42:00you know

00:42:01stories of

00:42:02you know

00:42:03KGB

00:42:03and American relationship

00:42:04you know

00:42:05these were things

00:42:05that were very

00:42:06hot button issues

00:42:07and things

00:42:08that took

00:42:08that had a lot

00:42:09of popular interest

00:42:10in the 80s

00:42:11I mean

00:42:11in the same way

00:42:13we're seeing

00:42:13this wonderful

00:42:14rise of female voices

00:42:18in film and television

00:42:19and that's cool

00:42:21I mean

00:42:22that's the flip side

00:42:22of all this

00:42:23I mean

00:42:23you know

00:42:23it's the silver lining

00:42:25if you can call it that

00:42:25of this happening

00:42:27to being centralized

00:42:28a lot

00:42:28in our industry

00:42:29is that we're an industry

00:42:30that tells stories

00:42:32and actually has

00:42:34emotional weight

00:42:36and you know

00:42:37if you're working

00:42:37in a corporate setup

00:42:39hopefully there's

00:42:39infrastructural changes

00:42:40that are being made

00:42:41but things that you don't see

00:42:42on the front lines

00:42:43in culture

00:42:44that can really affect

00:42:46the sort of next

00:42:47generation

00:42:48in an emotional way

00:42:49so that's really cool

00:42:51I think that's been fun

00:42:52to see

00:42:52this kind of awakening

00:42:53and shift

00:42:54in the way

00:42:55we're prioritizing

00:42:56our storytelling

00:42:56and the way

00:42:57that more things

00:42:58will happen

00:42:58that will shift

00:42:59to what we're interested in

00:43:00who gets the loudspeaker

00:43:02and it's cool

00:43:03I think it's going

00:43:03to the right people

00:43:04I think that makes sense

00:43:05alright we're gonna shift

00:43:06back to preparation process

00:43:08Jeff Godless

00:43:09was your first western

00:43:10what was the preparation

00:43:11process like

00:43:12how long does it take

00:43:13to learn to ride

00:43:14a horse like that

00:43:15I had to train

00:43:16for three months

00:43:17just cause I had read

00:43:18the scripts

00:43:19and knew that I was

00:43:19galloping through rivers

00:43:20with one arm

00:43:21and all that

00:43:22so I live in Michigan

00:43:23so I got a rodeo guy

00:43:24who trains the mounted

00:43:26the county mounted police guys

00:43:29so he was a real guy

00:43:30real guy

00:43:31and so he got me

00:43:32so I could gallop

00:43:34and all of that

00:43:34and it's

00:43:36oh

00:43:37you get the rhythm

00:43:38and you're there

00:43:39and you gotta look cool

00:43:40and you gotta

00:43:41it's all rhythm

00:43:42and then you get there

00:43:43and it's the Kentucky Derby

00:43:45oh man

00:43:46wow

00:43:46as the Wranglers say

00:43:47he's gonna be energized

00:43:49yeah

00:43:50that means

00:43:51it's game

00:43:52yeah

00:43:52we do 30 horses

00:43:55up and over the ridge

00:43:57first you're going

00:43:58up 15 feet

00:43:59and then 200 yards

00:44:00and they all think

00:44:02they're in the Kentucky Derby

00:44:03he said the horses

00:44:04think they're in a race

00:44:05so they're going

00:44:07and we had one guy

00:44:08first take

00:44:09first day

00:44:10first scene

00:44:10first morning

00:44:11flipped off the back

00:44:12bam

00:44:14I got there

00:44:15I hit the mark

00:44:15I made it

00:44:16and you can see

00:44:17the ambulance

00:44:18coming around

00:44:19from behind the cameras

00:44:20before they've said

00:44:21cut

00:44:21he's already

00:44:23concussion protocol

00:44:24because he said

00:44:25yeah I can ride

00:44:26he can

00:44:27and the last

00:44:29second to last day

00:44:30of shooting

00:44:30fell off the horse

00:44:31broke my wrist

00:44:32oh no

00:44:34still broke

00:44:35broke

00:44:36we have one more

00:44:37day of shooting

00:44:38so I'm on morphine

00:44:40I'm on morphine

00:44:42that's how I act

00:44:43at 11 in the morning

00:44:4510 degree wind chill

00:44:47in the middle

00:44:47of New Mexico

00:44:48and I'm sitting there

00:44:50and the wrist

00:44:51is like a steak knife

00:44:52is in the back

00:44:53of it

00:44:53and I also thought

00:44:55I tore my knee

00:44:55so I was just

00:44:57standing on a mark

00:44:59saying what I had to say

00:45:01on the last day

00:45:02of shooting

00:45:02with

00:45:03but you're recommending

00:45:05riding

00:45:05yeah exactly

00:45:06you're really selling

00:45:07me on this

00:45:08yeah

00:45:08it's a western

00:45:10is something to have done

00:45:11something to have done

00:45:13yeah

00:45:13but that

00:45:14the prep is

00:45:16yeah

00:45:16if it's

00:45:17I knew

00:45:17I knew I had to prep

00:45:19hard on that

00:45:19and because I did

00:45:20I only broke a wrist

00:45:22everybody flew off

00:45:24the horses

00:45:24even the wranglers

00:45:25flew off

00:45:25I mean it happens

00:45:27it's just a matter of time

00:45:28complete the sentence

00:45:40I wish Hollywood

00:45:41would cast me as

00:45:43I feel like if I say it

00:45:44I jinx it

00:45:45no go on

00:45:45no

00:45:46I don't know

00:45:47my goal is

00:45:48everything is a departure

00:45:49everything has to be

00:45:50a departure

00:45:51so what would be

00:45:51what would be the thing now

00:45:52honestly get on a horse

00:45:54you know

00:45:54give me a sword

00:45:56and armor

00:45:57or put me in a hat

00:45:58and a shot

00:45:59I don't know

00:45:59something genre-y

00:46:01and totally

00:46:02off what I just did

00:46:04I mean

00:46:05yeah

00:46:05just something totally wacky

00:46:07that sounds great

00:46:07I think something different

00:46:08from whatever it is

00:46:10that I just got done doing

00:46:11which you know

00:46:12I mean

00:46:12especially those of us

00:46:14who have been around

00:46:15doing it for a while

00:46:16you know

00:46:16most of us are here

00:46:17partly because

00:46:19we've been able to

00:46:20not get

00:46:20have to repeat ourselves

00:46:22constantly

00:46:23and have been given

00:46:24the opportunities

00:46:24to play different kinds

00:46:26of characters

00:46:26are there lanes

00:46:27that Hollywood

00:46:28seems to want

00:46:28you guys in

00:46:29same but different

00:46:31same but different

00:46:32same but different

00:46:32no

00:46:32unfortunately

00:46:35there are I think

00:46:35different lanes

00:46:36that different people

00:46:37want to see you in

00:46:38so if there's enough

00:46:39different people

00:46:39that want to see you

00:46:40in the lane

00:46:40they want to see you in

00:46:41then you

00:46:42you've got multiple lanes

00:46:43yeah

00:46:43I'm really enjoying

00:46:45being in this

00:46:46one specific lane

00:46:47which is

00:46:48the audience's proxy

00:46:52like sort of

00:46:53just a normal guy

00:46:54that gets to

00:46:55inhabit the center

00:46:56of the story

00:46:57and is your

00:46:59lens through which

00:47:01you are observing

00:47:02and experiencing

00:47:03this odd plot

00:47:05or group of people

00:47:07or scary guy

00:47:08or funny guy

00:47:09I like to be

00:47:11us

00:47:12and maybe that's

00:47:13just an extension

00:47:14of my

00:47:15direction fascination

00:47:18right now

00:47:19but I'm really

00:47:21enjoying that

00:47:22as opposed to

00:47:22playing a bunch

00:47:23of different characters

00:47:24and maybe you know

00:47:25two years

00:47:25five years

00:47:26ten years

00:47:26whatever

00:47:27that'll change

00:47:27but that's

00:47:28I'm digging that

00:47:28right now

00:47:29having said that

00:47:30Susie said

00:47:30I said

00:47:31I'd love to play

00:47:32a woman

00:47:32it would be

00:47:35really

00:47:35I would really

00:47:37enjoy it

00:47:37but like

00:47:38in a very real

00:47:39way

00:47:39I mean

00:47:39a Tootsie version

00:47:41of it would be

00:47:42pretty cool

00:47:42where there's

00:47:43a wink to it

00:47:44but then there's

00:47:44also the plane

00:47:45lands every once

00:47:46in a while

00:47:46and there's some

00:47:47real sort of

00:47:48introspection there

00:47:49not to suggest

00:47:51that that film

00:47:51needs to get redone

00:47:52which it should

00:47:52never

00:47:53but

00:47:53but it will

00:47:54because that's

00:47:54the world

00:47:55we're living in

00:47:55now

00:47:55what about you

00:47:56I was been

00:47:58sitting over here

00:47:58ever since you

00:47:58asked that question

00:47:59sitting there

00:47:59like I don't

00:48:00know what it

00:48:00is

00:48:00but I love

00:48:02animation

00:48:02so I think

00:48:03being able to

00:48:03like you know

00:48:04voice a pretty

00:48:05dope animated

00:48:07character would be

00:48:07a lot of fun

00:48:08so I think that

00:48:09is so tough

00:48:11just to like

00:48:11bring through

00:48:12that emotion

00:48:12you know

00:48:13to sit in

00:48:13a studio

00:48:14and actually

00:48:15try to like

00:48:16you know

00:48:16embody

00:48:18an animated

00:48:19character

00:48:19it's a trip

00:48:20because you're

00:48:20reliant on the

00:48:21animator

00:48:21down process

00:48:23to actually

00:48:24either match

00:48:25what you've done

00:48:25with your voice

00:48:26or go against it

00:48:28it's this teamwork

00:48:30that you're

00:48:30completely hands off

00:48:32of that

00:48:32yeah with guys

00:48:33you never meet

00:48:34what about you

00:48:34Matthew

00:48:34you've obviously

00:48:35just come off

00:48:35a very long run

00:48:37yeah

00:48:39god I don't know

00:48:40I'm trying to get

00:48:41back on stage

00:48:41that's another one

00:48:42are you

00:48:43yeah

00:48:43yeah very much so

00:48:45what do you wish

00:48:47Hollywood would

00:48:47cast you as

00:48:48very specifically

00:48:49for a long time

00:48:50I mean I've been

00:48:51trying to get this

00:48:51project made about

00:48:52the guy you know

00:48:53Griffith Park

00:48:54in LA

00:48:56the guy who gave

00:48:57Griffith Park to

00:48:58the observatory guy

00:48:58yeah to LA

00:48:59who's a Welsh guy

00:49:00called Griffith Jenkins

00:49:01Griffith and his life

00:49:02reads like a script

00:49:04and you can't get it made

00:49:05I'm trying to get it made

00:49:06okay

00:49:07so Hollywood

00:49:07I'd like to

00:49:08Hollywood I'd like

00:49:10to get this one

00:49:11yeah

00:49:11I just want to say

00:49:12I was literally

00:49:12just I have to mention

00:49:14this because just

00:49:14yesterday I was

00:49:15telling my friends

00:49:15what I was doing

00:49:16and my friend was

00:49:16like ah Jason

00:49:17baby you know

00:49:17he's

00:49:18he should play a

00:49:19woman

00:49:19but to answer the

00:49:21question of like

00:49:22what you want to be

00:49:22cast as I feel like

00:49:23every project is a

00:49:24constant negotiation

00:49:25between what you

00:49:26want to what you

00:49:27see yourself as

00:49:28against what people

00:49:29see what people

00:49:31think you're capable

00:49:31of and what you

00:49:32want them to know

00:49:32you're capable of

00:49:33and it's always this

00:49:34dance between

00:49:34what how that

00:49:36launches off from

00:49:37the next project

00:49:38and it's interesting

00:49:39that that you are

00:49:40really that you're

00:49:41aware of the way

00:49:43that you are

00:49:43perceived and

00:49:44because yesterday

00:49:45he's like ah Jason

00:49:45Batman he is just

00:49:46like we were talking

00:49:48about Jimmy Stewart

00:49:48he was like he's

00:49:49just the ultimate

00:49:49Jimmy Stewart straight

00:49:50man he's like the

00:49:5121st century straight

00:49:53man and he does it

00:49:54so well and with

00:49:55such variance but

00:49:56he's always in that

00:49:57lane and I was

00:49:58thinking like I

00:49:59don't think he would

00:49:59appreciate it if that

00:50:01was said to him

00:50:01the fact that you're

00:50:02aware of that and

00:50:03that's something that

00:50:03you like is very

00:50:05cool to me

00:50:05I love it

00:50:06I love it because

00:50:07without it there's a

00:50:09lot of stuff can't

00:50:10work so I like just

00:50:11the responsibility of

00:50:12that's interesting

00:50:12of that

00:50:13knowing who you

00:50:13are

00:50:14okay if you're

00:50:16looking at the

00:50:16landscape of the

00:50:17last year film or

00:50:18TV what was your

00:50:19favorite performance

00:50:20or one of your

00:50:21favorite performances

00:50:22not yours

00:50:23oh you can't you

00:50:25can't

00:50:25did you want to say

00:50:26your own

00:50:27well I did I get to

00:50:28work with my favorite

00:50:29actor this on

00:50:30counterpoint

00:50:30you've used that

00:50:34before

00:50:34oh god

00:50:35I don't watch

00:50:37anything

00:50:37I'll think of it

00:50:39it can be many

00:50:39things it can be

00:50:40multiple things

00:50:41I can think of the

00:50:41movie but there were

00:50:42like a few different

00:50:44performances in the

00:50:45movie which was three

00:50:46billboards

00:50:46I mean Sam Rockwell

00:50:48I guess it was just

00:50:50the first name out of

00:50:51my mouth

00:50:52yeah he took a big

00:50:53swing

00:50:53brilliant

00:50:54and just squared it

00:50:56up

00:50:56Sam's always been

00:50:57he always does

00:50:58he always gets

00:50:58the ball hard

00:50:59he's great

00:51:00nobody doesn't like

00:51:02some Rockwell

00:51:03Sam's like beloved

00:51:04by actors

00:51:05I mean it's like

00:51:05Woody

00:51:05yeah well I mean

00:51:07everybody in that

00:51:08movie really really

00:51:09I mean you can name

00:51:10five six seven eight

00:51:11actors

00:51:11anyone else have a

00:51:12project it doesn't

00:51:14no

00:51:16that's so tough

00:51:17I'm looking forward

00:51:19I'm going back to

00:51:20New York in May

00:51:20and I'm looking forward

00:51:21to seeing Denzel

00:51:23in Iceman

00:51:23I'm looking forward

00:51:25to seeing three tall

00:51:26women and seeing

00:51:26Glenda Jackson

00:51:27she's back

00:51:28and I had Billy Crude

00:51:29it was just incredible

00:51:30on his one man show

00:51:31I mean those

00:51:32these are things

00:51:32you don't want to hear

00:51:33no one is

00:51:34that's not true

00:51:35we're looking forward

00:51:36to doing this

00:51:36that's not true

00:51:36that's okay

00:51:37that works too

00:51:38if your co-stars

00:51:39were going to describe

00:51:40you in a few words

00:51:41oh god

00:51:42what would they say

00:51:43these are not that hard

00:51:44oh god

00:51:45that's what they'd say

00:51:47oh god

00:51:49they might

00:51:50oh god

00:51:51can't stand the horse

00:51:53delightful

00:51:53this is what I hear

00:51:55about you

00:51:55both of you

00:51:57well one more

00:52:00so really

00:52:01who knows

00:52:03I'll give you the number

00:52:04yeah

00:52:05that's a question for them

00:52:06I think

00:52:07I hope it's favorable

00:52:08uh yes

00:52:10yeah

00:52:11I'm still thinking

00:52:13of performances

00:52:13that I liked

00:52:14in this past year

00:52:15I'm like

00:52:15the Rolodex is spinning

00:52:17yeah

00:52:17so we're not

00:52:18answering that one

00:52:18next

00:52:18yeah

00:52:19as soon as we're done

00:52:20we're on the table

00:52:20for these questions

00:52:21it's always going to be

00:52:23in the car on the way home

00:52:23oh my god

00:52:25oh my god

00:52:26now Jason

00:52:27when you run on a show

00:52:28right

00:52:29it starts at the top

00:52:31you set the tone

00:52:32right

00:52:33I'm trying

00:52:35but

00:52:36news

00:52:38and that's why

00:52:38I cringe about

00:52:39newsroom

00:52:40was so demanding

00:52:41from a dialogue standpoint

00:52:43I don't know about

00:52:44Americans

00:52:44but it was

00:52:45we were loaded

00:52:46loaded

00:52:46yeah

00:52:47there was

00:52:49no room

00:52:50for not knowing it

00:52:51in a good way

00:52:53I mean

00:52:53you've got like

00:52:54you know

00:52:54modern day Shakespeare

00:52:55you will drown

00:52:56if you aren't

00:52:57completely off book

00:52:59for every single day

00:53:00every single episode

00:53:01for seven months

00:53:02you're studying for the finals

00:53:03for seven months

00:53:04that's what you have to do

00:53:05so

00:53:06at being number one

00:53:07on the call sheet

00:53:08which there is a responsibility

00:53:09in that

00:53:10you come in

00:53:11and you stand there

00:53:12at 630 in the morning

00:53:13with no sides

00:53:14going

00:53:15let's do this

00:53:17who's with me

00:53:17yeah

00:53:18and you find out

00:53:19real quickly

00:53:20on that show

00:53:21yeah

00:53:21because of the amount of dialogue

00:53:23that that's the only way

00:53:25to do it

00:53:25and on day two

00:53:27all the sides were gone

00:53:28hmm

00:53:29and that was all those

00:53:30theater people

00:53:31Sadowski and

00:53:32Pill

00:53:32and all those people

00:53:33were just Sam

00:53:34I mean they

00:53:35okay that's what

00:53:36we're gonna do

00:53:37great

00:53:38so

00:53:38that's a harder

00:53:39place to go to work

00:53:41because it's not

00:53:42going to be tolerated

00:53:43if you come in

00:53:44and you don't quite know it

00:53:45especially in a scene

00:53:46with me

00:53:47because I'll chew you up

00:53:48I'll eat you alive

00:53:49will you

00:53:51yeah

00:53:51we just

00:53:52just based on

00:53:53not maliciously

00:53:54but just out of pure talent

00:53:55you're not ready

00:53:56you're not prepared

00:53:57you're going to get exposed

00:53:57because

00:53:58I'm going to bury you

00:53:58he knows what he's doing

00:53:59yep

00:53:59I'm going to bury you

00:54:00because this is my show

00:54:01my set

00:54:02this is how we do it here

00:54:04I don't care what you do elsewhere

00:54:05this is how we do it here

00:54:06and it worked

00:54:07we had a couple day players

00:54:09who came in

00:54:09and the flop sweat started

00:54:11because they didn't quite

00:54:12and it's for their own benefit

00:54:15who wants to go shoot

00:54:15who wants to go shoot a fucking movie

00:54:16yeah let's go

00:54:17let's go make a movie

00:54:18I just got so inspired

00:54:19wait what is this

00:54:19I want to shoot something right now

00:54:21let's do it

00:54:21Danielson

00:54:22he had 10 pages

00:54:23and I sort of know it

00:54:25on a horse

00:54:26yeah

00:54:26but you said

00:54:28Michael

00:54:28you said you've come

00:54:29and you've done the backstory

00:54:31that you have notebooks

00:54:32and notebooks

00:54:33full of backstory

00:54:34yeah I write

00:54:35me notebooks

00:54:36like I have like a whole bunch

00:54:37of like diaries

00:54:38of all my characters

00:54:39from like the earliest memory

00:54:40to the page

00:54:41one of the script

00:54:42what's in them

00:54:42everything

00:54:44what I ate

00:54:45what's my favorite color

00:54:47what was my experience

00:54:47does he have any siblings

00:54:49what their relationship is like

00:54:50you know

00:54:51how was he treated at school

00:54:52what you know

00:54:53just literally

00:54:54the most colorful imagination

00:54:55that you can have

00:54:56for each character

00:54:57that fits

00:54:58you know

00:54:58and then you actually

00:54:59you know

00:55:00you talk to the director

00:55:00whatever his idea

00:55:02for the character is

00:55:03and it's kind of a collaboration

00:55:04and you just kind of

00:55:05just make it up

00:55:07you know

00:55:07and it just kind of gives you

00:55:08you know contextually

00:55:09what to go to

00:55:11if you ever get lost

00:55:13you know

00:55:13so like you know

00:55:14if you're in a specific scene

00:55:15and you're feeling

00:55:16you know

00:55:16lost and you're trying to find it

00:55:18I'll just write on the back of sides

00:55:19like what I did that day

00:55:20that morning before

00:55:21or whatever the hell it is

00:55:22what this character

00:55:23had done

00:55:23all in the characters

00:55:24perspective POV

00:55:26and that

00:55:26I just found that

00:55:27for me

00:55:27the easiest way

00:55:29to kind of stay

00:55:30locked on

00:55:31to what

00:55:31to who I was playing

00:55:32which is

00:55:33awesome

00:55:34first of all

00:55:35I mean

00:55:36I mean great

00:55:36you know

00:55:37taking your work seriously

00:55:38and in a feature

00:55:40you know

00:55:41where you're

00:55:42where you're collaborating

00:55:43with your director

00:55:43and your writer

00:55:44you know

00:55:44that's a beautiful thing

00:55:46to be able to do

00:55:46and when you

00:55:47when you have that

00:55:48because I do

00:55:49not as

00:55:50I mean it's varied

00:55:51you know

00:55:52by project

00:55:53and by sort of

00:55:54whatever

00:55:55period in my

00:55:56in my life

00:55:57but

00:55:58when you're doing that

00:56:00in long form

00:56:00storytelling

00:56:01you know

00:56:02when you're doing

00:56:02you know

00:56:03broadcast news

00:56:04or Oz

00:56:05or you know

00:56:06whatever it is

00:56:07you create that

00:56:10backstory for yourself

00:56:11and then in episode

00:56:1234

00:56:14you know

00:56:15they write something

00:56:15and you go

00:56:16oh shit

00:56:16okay

00:56:18didn't you get

00:56:21the backstory

00:56:21that I wrote

00:56:22in my

00:56:23notebooks

00:56:23yeah yeah yeah

00:56:24that makes

00:56:25total sense

00:56:26so I guess

00:56:26that's only been

00:56:27for characters

00:56:28that I've played

00:56:29in that

00:56:29because yeah

00:56:29when you know

00:56:31beginning middle end

00:56:32without a doubt

00:56:32sure

00:56:33I think that makes sense

00:56:34alright we're ending with

00:56:35if you could go back

00:56:37and tell your younger self

00:56:38starting out in this industry

00:56:40what would you say

00:56:41what's the advice

00:56:42you would give

00:56:43what would you

00:56:44well don't do it

00:56:45well yeah

00:56:45start out of a ten

00:56:46sciences

00:56:48I wish that I hadn't

00:56:51bought the attitude

00:56:53that I should have been

00:56:54renting

00:56:54there are peaks

00:56:55and there are valleys

00:56:56and

00:56:57and how you

00:56:58enter into that valley

00:57:00dictates how

00:57:01you get out of it

00:57:02your ability to get out of it

00:57:04as far as confidence

00:57:05and self esteem

00:57:06and identity

00:57:07and and if that is

00:57:08wrapped up into

00:57:09your ability

00:57:11to be employed

00:57:11then

00:57:12things could be

00:57:14challenging

00:57:14because you can't

00:57:15control that

00:57:16and it's it's not

00:57:17a meritocracy

00:57:18you know

00:57:18so if you're really

00:57:20good at what you do

00:57:20you can't count

00:57:21on being hired

00:57:23so

00:57:23whatever confidence

00:57:25you have

00:57:25should be

00:57:26you know

00:57:26substantiated by

00:57:27something above

00:57:28and beyond

00:57:29you know

00:57:29getting hired

00:57:30sure

00:57:31what about you

00:57:32Darren

00:57:32I have no idea

00:57:33I mean I'm still

00:57:35comparatively new at this

00:57:37and I'm constantly learning

00:57:39so

00:57:39I feel like I've made

00:57:40this is a bit of a cliche answer

00:57:42but I've made all the right mistakes

00:57:43you know

00:57:44so like I wouldn't

00:57:45want to disrupt

00:57:46the time continuum

00:57:47by

00:57:48the flow of mistakes

00:57:48by rerouting it

00:57:50I feel like all the things

00:57:51that I did

00:57:51got me to this round table

00:57:52with you guys

00:57:53I mean like

00:57:54you've all been

00:57:54a contributor to

00:57:55my career as an actor

00:57:58so

00:57:58I feel okay

00:57:59his younger self

00:58:00is 11

00:58:01so

00:58:02I would

00:58:12tell him

00:58:13not to let

00:58:15the business

00:58:16kill the love

00:58:20for why you got into it

00:58:21and you haven't though

00:58:22oh

00:58:23no

00:58:24there's

00:58:24I mean

00:58:25I talk to

00:58:27college kids

00:58:29sometimes

00:58:29and

00:58:30I'd reference Darren

00:58:31because he went to

00:58:31University of Michigan

00:58:32where I live

00:58:33but

00:58:34you can't teach him

00:58:36about the rejection

00:58:37you can't prepare him

00:58:38for that

00:58:38and the

00:58:40and we're going to go

00:58:42with someone else

00:58:43you know

00:58:44the

00:58:44it just

00:58:45and you

00:58:46the bitterness

00:58:48the depression

00:58:49all that stuff

00:58:50that comes

00:58:51because of the peaks

00:58:53and valleys

00:58:53of a career

00:58:54don't let it kill

00:58:57the love

00:58:58for between action

00:58:59and cut

00:58:59hang on to that

00:59:01because you're going

00:59:02to need that

00:59:03that's what I would tell him

00:59:05yeah

00:59:06all right Michael

00:59:07can you follow that

00:59:08no I was going to be

00:59:09that's deep

00:59:09you haven't screwed up

00:59:20hard enough yet

00:59:20maybe

00:59:20yeah you really haven't

00:59:21you should start

00:59:22more mistakes

00:59:23and when you do fail

00:59:24and when you do

00:59:25when you fail miserably

00:59:27write to us

00:59:28which is impending

00:59:29you're still the good actor

00:59:31that you were

00:59:32before that came out

00:59:33hang on to that

00:59:35I will

00:59:35hang on to that

00:59:37I know I'm sorry

00:59:39I'm going to butt in

00:59:39because I know

00:59:39my glib response

00:59:40to what I tell

00:59:41my younger self

00:59:42about would be

00:59:42to don't do it

00:59:43but honestly

00:59:45and this is

00:59:45I'll give credit

00:59:46to the guy

00:59:47that I first heard

00:59:47say this

00:59:48was Mark Ruffalo

00:59:49who said

00:59:50I would

00:59:51I would

00:59:52I would look

00:59:53my young

00:59:54aspiring actor

00:59:55in the eyes

00:59:56and say

00:59:57it'll be okay

00:59:58it'll be okay

01:00:00I mean

01:00:01whether that means

01:00:02you're going to have

01:00:02this fabulous career

01:00:03and become Mark Ruffalo

01:00:04and become

01:00:05a lauded

01:00:06actor

01:00:07or not

01:00:09or end up

01:00:11going a different

01:00:11direction

01:00:12but it'll be okay

01:00:14yeah

01:00:14and it was indeed

01:00:16okay for all of you

01:00:16thank you guys

01:00:17so much

01:00:17thank you

01:00:18thank you

01:00:18appreciate it

01:00:19thank you

Category

Transcript

Be the first to comment

Recommended