- 5 hours ago
Drew Barrymore, Alison Brie, Rachel Brosnahan, Tracee Ellis Ross, Debra Messing, Molly Shannon and Frankie Shaw star.
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00:00Welcome to Close Up with the Hollywood Reporter.
00:05I'm joined today by Molly Shannon, Tracee Ellis Ross, Frankie Shaw, Deborah Messing,
00:10Rachel Brosnahan, Alison Brie, Drew Barrymore, and I'm your host, Lacey Rose.
00:15Let's get right into it. What is the most amusing feedback you've received trying out for a part?
00:21I went up for Cape Fear, but I was like a washed up Hollywood actress,
00:25so I went on a Sunday morning with the casting director's assistant in a basement,
00:29and it was the scene where he sticks her finger, his finger in her mouth,
00:33and I was like, so should I just stick my own finger in my mouth?
00:38And the assistant was like, whatever.
00:42And I was like, that, I don't know why, but the whatever was sort of the best feedback I got in the moment,
00:48which was, you're never getting this, I don't care, and like, let's just do this.
00:53And I was like, okay.
00:55My first photo shoot, my first sitcom audition out of NYU, I went in and I did my thing first time on camera,
01:04and I was like, I just killed that, killed it.
01:07And my agent calls me and says, okay, you didn't get it.
01:11I was like, uh-huh.
01:12She's like, they said you look like Kabuki.
01:15Kabuki?
01:16What?
01:17What?
01:18What are you doing with your makeup?
01:19Oh, my God.
01:20And I was like, I'm doing theater makeup.
01:22And they're like, oh, no, no, no, no.
01:23The camera's right there.
01:25I was like, oh, I do it for, and they're like, she looked like she was 39, and now she's 23.
01:34And they're like, she's gotta go take a class.
01:37Exactly.
01:38And 39, you look like 23.
01:40Aw.
01:41Jokes on them.
01:43You'll always be my sister.
01:45Always.
01:47I had a casting director need to work on my girls, as they were referred to,
01:52because they were too low, which is where God put them.
01:54So I think they're in a really good spot.
01:56But she called down the hall for one of her assistants to bring in another bra,
02:01and she was like, what size are you?
02:03During an audition?
02:04Yes, ma'am.
02:05Oh, no.
02:06Yes, ma'am.
02:07What, what, um.
02:08I'm so concerned.
02:10Oh, my God.
02:11She was like, what size are you?
02:12And I was like, 34B.
02:13She was like, cool.
02:14Sorry for me.
02:15They come down and it was a 32 something or other.
02:17I was like, that's not gonna fit.
02:18She was like, it's fine.
02:19They'll spill out.
02:20It'll be great.
02:21One time I was an audition for House of Lies.
02:26Terrible.
02:27And the casting director was saying that I needed to show more skin.
02:31So she took the shirt off her back and gave me her tank top so I could, Felicia Fasano.
02:37And she, um, and so then I was wearing her tank top, but I still didn't get the part.
02:42Was she wearing a bra while you were auditioning?
02:44She was wearing, yeah.
02:45Mm-hmm.
02:46That's actually kind of sweet.
02:47Did you train her?
02:48Sure.
02:49Yeah, yeah.
02:50I've actually done that too.
02:51I was really young and I was auditioning a lot for, you know, like CW and ABC Family.
02:56And, uh, I, I grew up playing sports.
02:59I didn't know how to do my own hair and makeup really.
03:02And I, you know, I was like, I'm natural.
03:04People like that, you know?
03:05And, uh, and my real hair, my natural hair is like really, really curly and I had a ton of it.
03:10And I just didn't know how to do makeup.
03:11And, and I had the same thing.
03:13They said, I think you need to wear like a more form-fitting top.
03:16The casting director traded shirts with me for a more form-fitting top.
03:19Okay.
03:20And sent me out of the room with her assistant to have her do my makeup in the bathroom.
03:24Uh-huh.
03:25But that wasn't the only time that happened in that office.
03:28It was like every time I went in there, she was like, you know.
03:32And you were like a child.
03:35I mean, she was an adult woman, but her top was tight on your child body?
03:41Yes.
03:42Wow.
03:43I feel like she was wearing shirts that were too-
03:44I mean, I'm 18, I'm not sure I had.
03:45Well, this is still a child body.
03:47Just because she knew that you were coming in, she was like, give me that small top.
03:51I have a more intriguing question.
03:53What sports did you play?
03:55Yeah.
03:56Well, uh, so I wrestled in high school.
03:58You did?
03:59This is going to be interesting.
04:01What?
04:02What?
04:03I love it.
04:04That is great.
04:05But like traditional wrestling, where you wear a little hat.
04:09Yeah.
04:10And if you have hair, a little cap under your hat.
04:12It wasn't the best look I've ever had.
04:14Yeah.
04:15Do you have one?
04:16I remember once going in an audition when I was first starting out and I bumped into a girl.
04:20She was like, oh my God, have you gained like a hundred pounds?
04:24Right before I went in.
04:25No.
04:26Shut up.
04:27And I just remember it really hurt my feelings and now when I think about that, I won't
04:31see who the girl's name is, but I'll never forget.
04:33And I was like, how mean.
04:34Yeah.
04:35But at the time, I didn't have strong enough boundaries to be like, what a bitch.
04:39Well, who does one say to that anyhow?
04:41It was very nasty and it was kind of trying to notch me down.
04:46Yeah.
04:47Yeah.
04:48Yeah.
04:49I know.
04:50I always have like the after moment of what I would have said.
04:51Yes.
04:52Don't we all.
04:53In the moment, I usually am like.
04:54Usually not.
04:55Yeah.
04:56But that happened recently.
04:57I'd gained a bunch of weight and I was in a restaurant and the woman goes, God, you
05:00have so many kids.
05:01And I was like, well, two.
05:02And she goes, well, and obviously one on the way.
05:04And I looked at her and I go, excuse me?
05:06And she goes, well, you're pregnant, right?
05:08And I, for the first time ever, I said, no, I'm just fucking fat.
05:15Which, by the way, you are not.
05:19The fact that people continue to make comments on weight, size and whether it's just, it's
05:24insane.
05:25And I think there really are people out there who want to seriously fuck with your mind.
05:29And I am glad that I'm the kind of person that's sensitive enough to like take the bullet
05:34and then have the afterthought rather than be the crass person who can play in that moment.
05:39And I can do that maybe if I'm like, it's written for me.
05:42Right.
05:43And I can have that kind of moxie.
05:44But in real life, I'm just like, oh.
05:46But that's actually the new one that I've learned to do is, ouch.
05:50Yeah.
05:51How is that helpful?
05:53You want to let them know that they said a hurtful thing without having to be a negative
05:59person in that moment.
06:00Yeah.
06:01I'm not combative.
06:02Doormat.
06:03And somewhere in between, I would like to say to find a more rational therapist type
06:09of responsive.
06:10That was very hurtful.
06:12But if you're going to be that person, I'm so glad I take the high road.
06:15There's so much less traffic.
06:17But I never have that one.
06:20I vote that one.
06:22Or I read a thing recently where you can fog them so you don't back back.
06:28What does that mean?
06:29You agree with a percentage of the truth.
06:31Like, I saw somebody on the way to Park City and she was like, oh my gosh, you packed
06:35so much luggage.
06:36And it made me feel like embarrassed.
06:38Yeah.
06:39Like that was her introduction.
06:40Yeah.
06:41And I was like, it's not a good introduction.
06:42But anyhow, I agreed with a percentage of the truth.
06:46I was like, you're right.
06:48Sometimes I like to pack a lot of luggage because, you know, sometimes you get some stuff
06:53to bring home.
06:54Yeah.
06:55So you agree with a percentage of the truth and it fogs through you.
06:57Okay.
06:58I knew I loved Molly, but now I'm in love with Molly.
07:02That happens.
07:03So we're fogging.
07:04Isn't that good?
07:05I'm fogging.
07:06Yeah, yeah.
07:07Where's it going from here?
07:08Okay, I'm going to go to Blue and Grace.
07:10You see me, I'm like.
07:11I'm fogging.
07:12I'm fogging.
07:13I'm fogging.
07:14I'm in love with that the next time.
07:17I'm just going to be like, it's fogging.
07:19You have a show that's back now after.
07:27The line of what's funny, has it moved?
07:30Are there different things that make people laugh now than there was then?
07:33And do you feel that as a cast?
07:35I think that because 20 years ago when we started,
07:39the thing that made Will and Grace very specific was that it was provocative from the get-go.
07:46It addressed what was happening today in pop culture, in politics, and really pushed the boundaries.
07:55And I think because that was in the DNA of the show, coming back 11 and a half years later,
08:03everyone knew the voice of the show, everyone knew the characters,
08:06and so we didn't have to ask permission, we didn't have to apologize.
08:10They were like, oh, they're just doing what they always did.
08:13Okay, he's a man, but he's aged into a lesbian.
08:15Steven Tyler.
08:16John Boyd.
08:17Newt Gingrich.
08:18Yes.
08:19Okay.
08:20Uh, she's...
08:21Don't get me started.
08:22Jada Pinkett Smith.
08:23Yes.
08:24Um...
08:25Oh, oh, we want to love her, but she makes it impossible.
08:28Caitlyn Jenner.
08:29Of course.
08:30Um...
08:31Oh, uh, uh, rich, hostage...
08:34Melania.
08:35Beret.
08:36Patty Hearst!
08:37Yes!
08:39Woo!
08:40Obviously, now with the state of the world, there is a lot more to comment on,
08:45and it feels like there's a lot more at stake than when we began, but I actually feel like
08:52we are literally just staying the course.
08:55Do you guys feel a responsibility to be commenting on what's going on in the world,
09:00whether it's through your shows or as actresses?
09:03I think as a human being, I do.
09:05Um, and not necessarily commenting on it, but being an active participant and moving
09:10the needle in the direction that I think it needs to be going, whether that's through
09:14my work, which sometimes is not within my hands because it's the script that's handed
09:18to me, but the beingness that I bring to that role, or sort of how I use my voice
09:23and the platform that my work has offered me.
09:26The story of Rainbow Johnson has always started with,
09:30Hi, I'm a doctor, but that's only half of my story.
09:35I am many things.
09:36I am a mom, a wife, a fashion icon, and...
09:41Oh, that's when I get crazy, a fashion icon.
09:43Like, it's...
09:44Listen, so maybe I can be all of those things, just not at the same time.
09:50So you're saying you're gonna...
09:51Shh...
09:53Stay...
09:55I think, uh, my show creator, Victor Fresco, who is just a genius and has given me
09:59the greatest gift in my life at this moment.
10:02I think he's commenting a lot with the show on the narcissism state of the world,
10:08the gluttony state of the world, the attitudinal, like, as far as women not wanting to take crap anymore,
10:15but how do you, you know, live in your id and fight without being selfish and it negatively affecting everyone around you?
10:24And just a woman who's dynamic, but wrong, but living her best, like, life herself, giving it the full Oprah.
10:33Holy s***, are you chewing the post?
10:37Okay, here's the deal.
10:40Mommy's going a little crazy down here, so I need to get out.
10:44And I know you're worried I'm gonna go out there and kill somebody, but think about all the people I haven't killed.
10:50Literally everyone in the world except three people.
10:54Look, I'm sorry, but you put me in charge and I'm not letting you out.
10:59And stop chewing the post, it holds up the whole house.
11:03You either have to have a big daring spine in a show, I think, and we're all in those kind of shows, which is amazing,
11:13or you've lost the current audience because we've just come too far, it's all been put out there,
11:18and we can't go back to, like, this Mary Neverland type of Leave it to Beaver.
11:23So they could make a show called Leave it to Beaver, it'd be very different.
11:28And that would work in the current climate.
11:30For sure.
11:31We've just come too far, and so I like that whether it's metaphorical or character,
11:36these shows that we're all a part of are in the advanced current state of womanhood and the world.
11:42And then you can talk about it through a really cool channel rather than being on the soapbox,
11:47which in this day and age, it's so hard to be right.
11:50You're possibly wrong, then you feel bad, then you pull back.
11:54It's a very tricky, slippery slope to put yourself out there.
11:57So I like doing it through this character and this show that I feel safe.
12:02Yeah, I have a much harder time exposing myself politically as myself than I do through the show, my show Smilf.
12:10And you're writing it, so it's...
12:12Yeah, so I like often we, you know, before we start writing this season, it'll be like, okay, everyone read all these books.
12:18Here's like the list of articles that we're going to sort of incorporate and infuse in our show.
12:24And in that sense, like I sort of feel safe being, you know, sort of being behind the show in that way.
12:30I'm going to meet him tonight and I'm going to get him to confess.
12:34Richard who?
12:35My dad.
12:36Yeah, I'm going to meet him.
12:37I'm going to get him to confess.
12:39I found him online.
12:41Well, it's a bad idea.
12:43I thought maybe you might just come with me or something.
12:49You're not going to get him to confess.
12:51He didn't do it when you were little.
12:52He's not doing it now.
12:54Okay.
12:55Yeah, I'll just go by myself.
12:58You know, this show definitely would never have been able to exist in any other time.
13:03Like our first season was essentially about sexual assault.
13:07Like if that was like one of our core themes and sexual trauma and like, and it's like this little feminist comedy on a, you know, premium cable network.
13:16And so I do feel so grateful that the tides are changing.
13:20Absolutely.
13:21I feel so lucky to get to work on glow with all of these feminist powerhouse women who are so intelligent and informed.
13:30I don't write on the show.
13:32So it's like out of my control.
13:34I do think it's a show that could have been made any time, but the meaning has changed even from when I started shooting it.
13:42You think you got me, but then I come back with the soon to be famous rough toilet paper.
13:49And then, you know, it's fight, fight, fight.
13:52I'm bad.
13:53You're good.
13:54I'm winning.
13:55You're winning.
13:56Oh, stop.
13:57Oh, she's still got me.
14:02Oh, you stupid American swine.
14:06For the hair and big finish, one cup of breakfast.
14:12You know, when we started shooting it, Liz Flayhive and Carly Mench, our showrunners, thought we're making this show in the time where we're going to have our first female president.
14:21And that's where we're leading this story.
14:24And the election happened while we were shooting season one.
14:27And obviously the tone of the world changed and it gave the show a different meaning and a different importance.
14:35You know, I agree that I think in the past I've felt much more timid about expressing.
14:41And I do still feel a little bit timid and you can be targeted and belittled in a way that's like, you're an actress.
14:49Why does your opinion matter?
14:50Why does your opinion matter?
14:51But it goes back to what you were saying, Tracy, about I'm a human being.
14:54I'm a citizen in this country.
14:55Yeah.
14:56So I'm allowed to have opinions, you know, and now we're living in a time where it is more and more vital to stay silent because you're afraid of losing part of an audience.
15:07Right.
15:08Would be a real shame where I feel like in the past I'd be like, I am just an actress working on a comedy show.
15:13And like, I don't know, do I want to ostracize people who disagree?
15:17Right.
15:18But there are such glaring issues.
15:21It is a business decision.
15:23I have other companies other than in doing film and, you know, I sell out of Walmart, Amazon, Ulta, all these different companies.
15:31And I don't want to alienate people.
15:33And I don't, but it's coming from a place of I don't ever want to alienate people.
15:37I'm not one of those bitches who says nasty things about anyone.
15:40I don't have that kind of animosity.
15:42I'm all about inclusion.
15:43So it is a very slippery slope.
15:46But the one thing about all of our shows and doing this and where I couldn't have more pride other than being with brilliant women is the world is not funny.
15:55And we are doing comedy.
15:57And if there is one medicine I need with my life, it is comedy.
16:02Take me out of shit as you are telling me what it is you're trying to say.
16:08And comedy is the antidote to everything.
16:11And laughter is the key.
16:13And when it's heavy and it's modeling and it's all stakes in, I want to run away.
16:18I can't help it.
16:19I need laughter.
16:21I think there's something to that.
16:22That's great, too.
16:23You have a show, too, where it has become sort of relevant in a way that going into it while you were filming it, Frankie U2, you perhaps didn't know just how relevant these shows would be.
16:34Has that changed your approach or the conversations as you film season two or as you produce season two?
16:41Well, the best part about our show has been that it hasn't changed the conversation at all.
16:46At all.
16:47It just has added to a conversation that has been swelling.
16:52And I think people are viewing the show through maybe a different lens, but it actually has been created exactly as it was intended to be.
17:01I have wonderful parents.
17:03I've had a very comfortable life.
17:05And though I knew that love would be great, I had no idea it would be anything that could justify what I paid for this dress.
17:10What I paid for that dress.
17:12We're very happy.
17:13And because it's better than anything I could have imagined, I thought I should get up here today and tell all of you that I love this man.
17:23And yes, there is shrimp in the egg rolls.
17:26What?
17:27Miriam!
17:28This theme and idea of a woman discovering a voice that she didn't know she had resonates in a new way now.
17:39And that's, I think, been nothing but encouraging in the midst of a lot of turmoil and also a lot of hope.
17:47I feel like despite a lot of sadness and trauma and worldwide despair, I'm so encouraged by this moment we are living in, this exact moment.
17:58People are feeling a responsibility in a positive way to play an active role in their futures.
18:04And these are all things that we talk about through The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and through the titular character Midge.
18:11It is interesting working on a period piece, do you find, because I feel like with our show set in the 80s, there's so much stuff that you want to point out about the injustices that were happening to women and why women need to speak their voices.
18:22Yeah.
18:23Like the fact that it resonates so much now that we still need to be rule breakers and fight for certain rights is just interesting.
18:32I would say the same that I don't think it's changed the dialogue of our show or how it's being made.
18:37I guess it just makes it more relevant.
18:39Yeah, well, art at its best, and I feel like especially comedy, it holds up a mirror to the world we live in.
18:44It shows you who you are, who you want to be, who you maybe don't want to be anymore, who you can be.
18:50Yes, and period pieces have been utilized that way because, I mean, for better and for worse.
18:54Because there's a bit of distance, yeah, to go like, look what was happening then, and then you go, wait, that's still happening.
18:59Yeah.
19:00Exactly the same way.
19:01Right.
19:02Oh, crap.
19:03You know, yeah.
19:04Yeah, exactly.
19:05Well, in that vein of humanity, I think also the best comedy in the world is not just, I love a good fart joke, but like,
19:13I do.
19:14We all do.
19:15Go on.
19:17There are also two different brands of comedy, and it is always the comedy with heart.
19:22Yeah.
19:23That's where I get the most excited by something funny.
19:26It's like, you know, even a film like Terms of Endearment, that's one of the most heavy emotional films in the world,
19:32it is just encompassed in this joy and love and humor and broad comedy.
19:39Where are her?
19:40I mean, it's like that to me was such a lesson in storytelling that you could want to rewatch something that's hard to watch.
19:56But it's comedy in heart.
19:57To me, it's like in a man, I want humor and intelligence or maybe something else.
20:02I don't know what I want in a man.
20:03But be funny, please, God.
20:05Yes.
20:06But I know in storytelling, I love heart and comedy.
20:10Those are the most dynamic and perfect combo.
20:13I've never been attracted to comedic men.
20:15No, they're not.
20:16No.
20:17Interesting.
20:18As you said that, I was like, well comedic men are usually like funny men.
20:21I'm a little dark and twisted.
20:22You want a guy who gets more sense of humor.
20:24You want a guy that you can laugh with.
20:25Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:26Laugh with, yes.
20:27Laugh with, yes.
20:28But not like a funny guy.
20:29Doing the comedy act.
20:30Yeah, like comedians.
20:31No stand of comedy.
20:32You can't have two of the same.
20:33You need, you notice a lot of louder one with the quiet.
20:35Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:36Like the turtle and the hailstorm.
20:37Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:38We got a hailstorm.
20:39We're probably saying that all of us at this table need like a quiet guy.
20:43Wait, what?
20:44We're saying that all of us at this table need like a quiet guy.
20:47Slightly more quiet.
20:48We're like, we're putting on the show here.
20:51Yeah.
20:52I like funny guys.
20:54Comedian men are, it's different.
20:56That's a different thing.
20:57That's a different thing.
20:58I had like a connection there while you were talking.
21:00I was like, I should have skipped that in my mouth.
21:01No.
21:02No, but I agree.
21:03And there is a huge chasm in difference because professional comedy, I think a lot of people
21:08remove themselves from their life, the world, society, the people around them to be able
21:13to comment on them objectively.
21:16Yeah.
21:17So you can't get in there.
21:18And that's what I've seen.
21:19A connected vulnerability that is based and that would be.
21:23Yeah.
21:24I just want a guy who's like, has a sense of hammer.
21:26Yeah.
21:27I think that's fair.
21:28Yeah.
21:29Speaking of playing off.
21:30Is that too much to ask?
21:31Is that too much to ask?
21:32Yeah.
21:33Exactly.
21:34Can it just be funny?
21:35I think there's been a lot of conversation around Roseanne specifically recently.
21:53Can you and should you be able to separate the art from the artist?
21:57Do you mean like?
21:58It depends on how bad they are.
22:00Yeah.
22:01It depends on how harmful they are.
22:02And what the harm is.
22:03Right.
22:04And if people are actually hurt by, by their beliefs and by their actions.
22:09But she made it clear from the beginning that this was her.
22:12She was a standup comic.
22:13Right.
22:14And she said, this is just me.
22:15I'm just being me.
22:16And so that's very different than saying, I'm creating a different character.
22:22And then when you have someone who is very outspoken on social media and says things that
22:29are incredibly racist.
22:31Normalizing white supremacy essentially at its core.
22:34Yes.
22:35And I think the problem is, is that, you know, she, she is more right wing than her character.
22:43And I think that's where it's, it becomes, at least for me, very hard to separate the two.
22:49That there's a difference between being tolerant and tolerating intolerance.
22:54There's no need to tolerate intolerance.
22:57That's not what leads to a productive or unified society.
23:01And that to me feels like the thing at the core of, can we separate an artist from their art?
23:06Yes, we do all the time.
23:08We have, we have forever and ever and ever.
23:11Should we?
23:12I think we need to reevaluate.
23:13And we're in different times.
23:14Yeah.
23:15I think that there's a different compass that's been set.
23:18And I think that there is a recalibration that needs to occur that I think is the reason
23:23that it feels so frightening right now.
23:25What's the answer?
23:26How does it change?
23:28I mean, your, your show, there was an episode that was shelved because it had to do with
23:34Take a Knee.
23:35Right?
23:36Is that true?
23:37No, it was Trump, right?
23:38There's an episode that was shelved.
23:40That was shelved.
23:41But Black-ish has explored plenty of other charged issues.
23:44As a cast, did you have conversations about what made this one different?
23:47We have conversations about the subject matter of our episodes.
23:50Yes, we do.
23:51Very vocal, strong conversations about those things.
23:55The details of why the episode was pulled and everything that has surrounded that, I do not have the answers for.
24:02And to a certain extent, I have purposefully stayed out of those conversations because I've had no power to do something beyond that.
24:10Right.
24:11I have asked for the information and pushed for the information that I felt would be helpful to me and constructive in what I can do with it because I find it frightening.
24:24We did an episode in our show all about Nazis and I'm like, whoa, okay, here we go again with the daringness of Santa Cruz to diet and their tone.
24:34And then as it was being shot, the Charlottesville march was going on simultaneously.
24:39We would go from our trailer to watching CNN and go in to shoot this scene.
24:43And then the scene is really about when one of the Nazis comes in in a wheelchair.
24:47What is the real discrimination there?
24:49And are you discriminating because you're discriminating?
24:52Oh my God.
24:53And he's like, you're discriminating against me because I'm in a wheelchair.
24:57And she's like, no, that's not why I'm discriminating against you.
25:00Because you're a Nazi.
25:01And then it just gets so crazy.
25:03And then she eats them.
25:04Of course.
25:05And that's just a great way to solve a problem.
25:07I was like, she better still eat them.
25:11And it was a fun way for me to deal with what is happening right now that I don't believe is happening.
25:20And yet the make believe gave me some way of dealing with it in a comedic and crazy way.
25:26I love that.
25:27All right.
25:28We're living in whether we call it the Me Too era or the Time's Up era.
25:31I'm curious for you guys how your world and your perspective has changed in a sort of concrete way.
25:38Whether there's one thing that you've done that you hadn't done before or a conversation you've had that you wouldn't have otherwise had before this movement.
25:46In all honesty for me, the conversation, the narrative is exactly the same.
25:50This is a conversation and a narrative that I've been having both publicly, personally, privately, like all of those things.
25:57The biggest thing that has changed for me is the connection and the relationship with my fellow women.
26:02There is a camaraderie, a connection, a partnership, a shared experience.
26:08I mean, if the Golden Globes is one weird example that is very connected to our industry, but just that red carpet experience was like epically different.
26:18I mean, I remember seeing you and, you know, it wasn't about like, I'm going to share my dress because she might want to wear it or something.
26:25Like there was a real purpose.
26:29There was a purpose.
26:30We were connected to the collective power of us as women.
26:33We sort of switched the power relationship on that carpet.
26:37We were there as a collective force.
26:40And that to me was a Hollywood example, but I have experienced it behind the scenes in a way that I feel like has absolutely shifted.
26:50There's also been a collective release of shame.
26:53You know, we're all like, oh, these were secrets that we all kind of had that we talked.
26:58Yep.
26:59And now we're all like, oh, yeah, we've all been, we're all a part of it.
27:01Yep.
27:02And the stigma has sort of gone away.
27:03Agreed.
27:04So that's been really cool.
27:06The conversation has just gotten bigger in that way that like the conversations used to happen in tiny rooms just with your best girlfriend of like, I don't think this was okay.
27:14With a little shame involved.
27:15Totally with shame involved.
27:17And maybe I read it wrong with a doubt.
27:21And now it's like the floodgates are open and but in a good way where everyone is the shame has been removed.
27:27The doubt has been removed.
27:29Hearing other women's stories in such a open and massive way has sort of given everyone permission to go like, oh, my God, I'm not alone.
27:38And like, it's not okay.
27:40I feel like it's connected us to the larger story of what is happening for women globally.
27:45And, you know, I understand.
27:47But for black and brown women, sexual harassment and sort of the inequality has been a part of the experience.
27:55And there has been work being done and being spoken for years, not just for black and brown women across the board.
28:01But I feel like the Hollywood thing sort of put it in the forefront.
28:05And there's nothing wrong with that if that is a light that is shined on the larger picture towards women's equality in general and stopping violence towards women.
28:13Well, there's political.
28:14There's Hollywood.
28:15Yeah.
28:16It's about pulling together all the big.
28:18All the pieces.
28:19Culpable groups.
28:20I was always a producer.
28:22And I was never an ingenue.
28:24I was like a kid actress, had a downfall, came back, was a producer.
28:28So men never looked at me that way.
28:31And I've wondered if that empowerment of just thinking you're next to someone and assuming that and not ever behaving in any way like you're asking for their not only permission, but their acknowledgement or their sort of like, do you think I'm okay?
28:50It's always been a, this is what we're doing and we're doing it side by side.
28:54And I think that dynamic really saved me out of a lot of situations that could have been completely different.
29:01I think the question of is there something you've done now that you would never have done in the past?
29:06You know, at the Golden Globes when I spoke on live TV and talked about E! and saying, why aren't you paying your women equally?
29:15I never would have ever even thought about doing that.
29:18And the reason why I did was exactly what you were talking about.
29:22It was the community of women and being connected, you know, on a daily basis with groups of women and saying, well, what can we do?
29:32How can we use our collective energy and our collective platforms to focus the conversation?
29:41And it was because of this conversation, it was like, oh, well, you know, if you can, this might be a great idea.
29:48It was Amy Schumer.
29:49She was like, Deborah, if you can get there first, that would be awesome.
29:52You know, and it was her idea.
29:54And, you know, it was only because I knew that there were tons of women who were like, I am with you.
30:03You know, I have your back.
30:05You know, there's not going to be fallout because we are all here standing right beside you.
30:10Do you guys have any fear of the fallout?
30:13No.
30:14I don't either.
30:15No.
30:16I honestly don't.
30:17I can't go backwards.
30:18Do you think it's because we're older?
30:19Maybe.
30:20Well, maybe.
30:21There was a writer in my room whose dad told her not to put times up like on her Instagram
30:27because he's like, you don't know where this movement's going to be in four years.
30:31That makes me so mad.
30:33I mean, I've had male friends say to me, okay, you're going too far with this times up shit.
30:38And I'm like, what the fuck does that mean?
30:40I'm going too far with this equality thing?
30:43What are you talking about?
30:45But again, I'm going for equal, buddy.
30:48And Deborah, what my point was earlier is like, I was never looking for approval.
30:53And that's how you approached that red carpet moment.
30:56Yeah.
30:57And if we, like, it's almost like, you know, the constant, like, if you go at it without
31:03demeaning people, maybe that's what your dad is questioning.
31:06It's like, is it just going to be such a male takedown that as women we're going to wonder, like, oh God.
31:11But that's not the point of it.
31:13Or just, like, people who think like that are going to die out.
31:15Well, here's the thing.
31:16Here, here's the thing.
31:20Women aren't going anywhere.
31:21No.
31:22No one should, in any aspect of one's career or life or anything, the point is not for you to do something you're not comfortable doing.
31:29Right.
31:30I think you've got to go as slow as the slowest parts of yourself.
31:32And everybody has a different way, a different place, a different kind of voice, and a different, different hands to put into this.
31:39So whatever that looks like for you.
31:41And if it looks like you just literally living your life in the most authentic way that you can live it, that's exactly what it should be.
31:48This is not about shaming someone for not being able to speak up or put a hashtag Time's Up in their platform.
31:55It's really about, for me, the Time's Up is so that anyone can have the space to be exactly who they want to be as they choose when they choose to be it.
32:05If you want to sleep with a man or a woman, if you want to, whatever that may be, that is the equality that I am fighting for.
32:12And that kind of social, racial, sexual justice is what I'm looking for in a world.
32:17And if my actor platform gives me a space and a way to reach a larger group.
32:23I remember when I was campaigning for the Obama campaign early in 2007 and I was terrified.
32:27And I also felt annoyed by myself.
32:30I was like, what the fuck?
32:31Like, I get that I'm a human being and a citizen and an actor that has a platform.
32:35But as an actor, like, why?
32:37Like, why should I be going and doing this?
32:39And my thought was, you know what?
32:42If the fact that someone watches Girlfriends, which at the time was the show,
32:46if the fact that someone watches Girlfriends and comes here to see me because I'm on Girlfriends
32:51and I get to turn the attention to something else, then that's all that matters for me.
32:57If my little thing can bring somebody towards something that they wouldn't normally come towards,
33:03and then I can share something that would open whatever that is up and shine light somewhere else on the more vulnerable,
33:10the most vulnerable, whatever that is, then it's okay for me.
33:14Sure, sure.
33:15Okay, stop now.
33:16I think that now is sort of what also a lot of all of our shows are doing when we talk about the relevance of the work that we're doing
33:23and the topics that are covered in our shows early on in shooting GLOW.
33:28Betty Gilpin, who's on the show with me, described our show as a Trojan horse,
33:31like, to get these, like, real stories about women into, like, men's homes who expect to see girls in tiny clothes,
33:39like, wrestling each other.
33:40Right, right.
33:41Like, actually, we're smuggling in, like, truth and, like, it's, like, dynamic,
33:47dynamic female friendships and heart and relatability and, like, stuff like that.
33:54Smuggling truth.
33:55I can't stop thinking about all of you in your leotards jumping out of a horse.
33:58Yes!
33:59Talking about female friendships.
34:02That's awesome.
34:03Yes.
34:04I would watch your show that way.
34:06The conversation you had on that carpet was about pay parity.
34:09That is something that has become a larger discussion in Hollywood and beyond.
34:14I'm curious if it's changed the conversations you've had in your own workplace.
34:19Something you feel more comfortable asking for and having conversations about.
34:24Yes.
34:27Yeah.
34:28I think it feels part about, again, the shame.
34:33The shame has gone away out of this idea of asking for what you're worth.
34:38Mm-hmm.
34:39Asking to be paid equally.
34:41But also, I'm noticing, particularly with equal pay.
34:46And obviously, this industry is what's surrounding me right now.
34:49So this is where this exact conversation has lived for me.
34:52Although it's rippling down through all sorts of other industries as well.
34:56But the biggest thing that I've noticed with the conversation surrounding pay equality is the men in my life who are amazing, who are progressive, who love women, who just don't realize.
35:11Mm-hmm.
35:12The Me Too movement, the same thing, who just didn't know.
35:16Mm-hmm.
35:17And all of these women having honest conversations with the men in our lives as well has emboldened them to take action towards pay equality too.
35:28Mm-hmm.
35:29Which I've found really encouraging.
35:31I feel like pay equality is such, it's a harder topic for people to discuss because people are so uncomfortable talking about money.
35:38Talking about money.
35:39Yeah.
35:40Mm-hmm.
35:41And I can't speak to other industries, but I know that in ours, it's so taboo.
35:45You're never on set talking to another actor about how much they're getting paid on the project that you're doing.
35:50And that's why it's been able to run rampant for so long that the gap has been able to get wider and wider.
35:56Precisely.
35:57Because you've had no idea.
35:58Right.
35:59Agents know.
36:00Agents know.
36:01That's right.
36:02That's right.
36:03What the hell?
36:04So are you now having those conversations, is my point.
36:06Yeah.
36:07Is there now more of a pressure?
36:08Yes.
36:09Well, I don't know if there's more of a pressure.
36:10I have found that there's, I have more freedom to have transparency.
36:13I actually have had real dollar conversations with girlfriends of mine.
36:17Oh, wow.
36:18In this industry and said, okay, here's what it is.
36:19Yeah.
36:20And as a black woman in this industry, and we know what the dollar does in all those different areas with, it is staggering, the difference.
36:29So what do you do about it?
36:30Then what?
36:31Well, in what I'm fighting for versus what you might be fighting for.
36:34Yeah.
36:35I am fighting to get where you start, things of that nature.
36:38However, I will say that one of the things, I had a conversation with an actress friend of mine who is in this position.
36:43And by the way, recently a lot of actresses are discovering, in hindsight, as number one on the call sheet, that the number two male was actually making more than that.
36:52That's right. Yeah, sure.
36:53I've covered this.
36:54There's a lot publicly that's been out there, and then there's a lot that I know has been shared with me personally.
36:57You've got to make a phone call.
36:59But I will say that one of the things in having a conversation that I said to one of my friends is, you know what, let's take a step back.
37:06Let's not worry about what he's making or was making.
37:09Let's take a second before we go there.
37:12What do you think you should be making?
37:14Right.
37:15Outside of the context of the equality of him or not, what would be comparable to what you are contributing to your show in the way with the career that you bring and with what you've been making and what you think you should be making?
37:27And the truth is that it's the same thing I did.
37:29You come up with a number that's pretty accurate without even thinking about what a man is making.
37:34Okay, what you just said is really important to me because, like, the Time's Up movement, you know, all of these things that's happening, for me, it is tone.
37:42And I don't want to make men feel bad or little boys who are growing up in this world and see women just eviscerating men.
37:49That is not right.
37:50I am not behind that.
37:51And that is not a tone I can get behind.
37:53Women having each other's back, that I'm behind.
37:57I've always been the biggest girl's girl.
38:00I've grown up with that male-female dynamic with pay in Hollywood, and not to be heavy, but my mom was in an unemployment line with me for most of my upbringing and even past ET.
38:16And so I think about it kind of on that level of, like, you know, when you talk about Hollywood, you're talking about so much money.
38:23And it's like I also get very humble and afraid of the conversation because I knew what it was like.
38:31I was in those unemployment lines.
38:33When you're kind of demanding millions of dollars, I'm like, that's not the real conversation through the rest of the world.
38:39So I'm very sensitive about that.
38:41And so I have a timidness about equal pay.
38:45But what you said is, in Hollywood, I started out as, you know, a kid when I'm 11 months old making a dog food commercial.
38:52You're not making the big bucks.
38:55And then, you know, I had a career, and then it went away.
38:58And so I know what it's like to grow up not having it.
39:01I know what it's like to be, like, literally lights out.
39:04Like, you're done for a while.
39:07Sit on ice in the blacklist corner.
39:09Then revive my career and think about it as a producer, and then I would be in charge of people's salaries.
39:15So I was the one valuing others.
39:18And then, as an actress myself, I just think the definition of success is employment.
39:23And I'm so sort of timid to ever go back to, like, having no career or being a kid or, you know, all the different kind of evolutions I've had with my relationship with the money I make.
39:37You know, and then I started, like, producing and having success with films and career and payment and all of that.
39:45And it was, like, a real high for, like, 20 years.
39:48And then I had kids, and I stepped back.
39:50And then I realized I was a single mom all of a sudden and, like, kind of had to go back to work but didn't know how to do that with kids.
39:59And I was just, like, kind of in, like, a freak spiral.
40:03And then I got this show, and I was, like, I'll take whatever you can give me.
40:09And then on season two and three, I was, like, maybe I'm of value to this show.
40:15Of course.
40:16But I also have to say, equal pay is not, it's not about the dollar number.
40:20No.
40:21It's about being compensated for the work that you're doing.
40:23But that's what you said.
40:24It's not on your skin color or your gender or anything.
40:29So I understand.
40:30And don't get me wrong.
40:31I understand this is a very privileged conversation in Hollywood.
40:35Yeah.
40:36But it's still the same conversation.
40:37Yes.
40:38No, and I agree with equal pay for all working women.
40:41It's not just women.
40:42Just, it's equal pay.
40:43That's my whole thing.
40:44But what you said was so on point about what is my value.
40:49So it doesn't become a competition or a takedown of others.
40:52It's, I want to be valued for my value.
40:55And that, to me, has no gender lines.
40:57Sure.
40:58And that is the perfect way to put it, Tracy.
41:00I think that is what makes it so difficult, because all actors, I think men and women,
41:05have been made to feel at points in our career, like, this is the amount I'm worth.
41:10And people are like, well, we're not going to give you that amount.
41:12There's a hundred other people who would do it.
41:14Right.
41:15Do it for a quarter of the prize.
41:16Totally.
41:17Constantly being made to feel that way.
41:18It's hard to bolster yourself in this industry, which you so often have to do.
41:21And say, like, no, I am worth.
41:22We also, systemically, as women, are trained to not, to think we are overreacting or less than.
41:28Which is why Ellen Pompeo's interview, the comps are helpful.
41:33Yeah.
41:34So badass.
41:35Yes.
41:36I mean, women are so important.
41:38Ellen Pompeo came out and laid it out and, you know, she's the highest paid person in drama.
41:45Dramatic television.
41:46Dramatic television.
41:47Yes.
41:48And she laid it out.
41:49And she laid out how, you know, the numbers they were coming to her and how she thought
41:53that was bullshit and how she was able to, you know, look at the numbers of how much money
41:59the studio had been raking in over the last 12 years and was able to monetize it.
42:05And she was brilliant about it.
42:07Yeah.
42:08And I think the thing that resonated with me the most was that, you know, she said, I decided
42:17what my value was.
42:18Yeah.
42:19And the question is, are you going to value me or not?
42:23If you won't, I'll just leave.
42:26And it's about being prepared to walk away.
42:29To walk away.
42:30And that brings in, that begs the larger conversation beyond Hollywood.
42:34Right.
42:35Sure.
42:36For most people in those vulnerable positions, whether it is a woman or a person of color
42:41or transgender or whatever that is, they don't have the whatever it is to be able, not
42:47the, um.
42:48The resources.
42:50That's the word I'm looking for.
42:51This looks like I was saying the wrong thing.
42:52Yeah.
42:53It's not what I meant.
42:54I meant the resources.
42:55And that is where I believe that as women in Hollywood, as people in Hollywood, it
43:01is our job to protect those that are more vulnerable.
43:04Yes.
43:05To use our voices.
43:06To amplify their voices.
43:07To use our voices in a way that does that.
43:08Absolutely.
43:09It was not angry.
43:10It was inspiring.
43:11Yes.
43:25You know, some of her early work in John Hughes movies and there were scenes with another
43:34male character, um, sort of touching her in a way that was perhaps or approaching her
43:38in a way that in today's light, we would say, oh, that's harassment or you are degrading
43:43a woman.
43:44Does she mean in real life or just in the film itself?
43:45On screen.
43:46On screen.
43:47Was it part of the storytelling?
43:48Yes.
43:49And at that time, that is what the storytelling was.
43:51Right.
43:52So the question is, have you gone back and thought about any of the things that you
43:56were asked to do or the parts that you're playing?
43:58Of course.
43:59Are you kidding?
44:00Are you kidding?
44:01Are you kidding?
44:02I was gonna say, where's the Drew Barrymore wine?
44:06I have a good story about that.
44:09Oh, good.
44:10Yes.
44:11I was first a struggling actress and I was, I was a waitress.
44:14I worked at Cravings restaurant as a hostess.
44:16So I was living check to check, renting a rack.
44:19You know, I have very little money in my account, but I got a job on a John La Roquette
44:24show and I played a female protester and they were all very nice.
44:29I was supposed to be a topless protester, but they were gonna, it's a sitcom.
44:32So they were gonna shoot us from behind.
44:35But then the director came and told me, and I got the part, it was like a speaking part.
44:39He said, I'm so sorry, but you do have to, you're gonna have to.
44:41It was a bunch of girls too, but I had to speak.
44:43I was the lead protester, but he said, you're all gonna have to take your tops off.
44:47And you know, just cause it's, it's too weird from the back.
44:50It shows it's not good.
44:51So you're just gonna.
44:53And I was like, then I have to leave.
44:55And I was a broke actress.
44:57And you did.
44:58And I did.
44:59I said, I'm so sorry.
45:00And my body walked me out.
45:02I was like, what?
45:04And I was so sorry.
45:05I go, I have to leave.
45:07And, and I did.
45:08I started to walk out to my car and they came and got me.
45:11And they said, wait a minute.
45:12Hold on.
45:13We think maybe you could wear like pasties.
45:14And then I went back.
45:15And I have to say, John La Roquette was not part of that.
45:17He was very much a gentleman.
45:19It was somebody else.
45:20I don't remember the director, but how about that lady?
45:23Can I ask you a question?
45:27If you could think back.
45:28Yeah.
45:29What was it?
45:30Cause I'm curious.
45:31And I feel like people out there should hear.
45:33Okay.
45:34Can you like think back and remember and articulate what it was in you that said no?
45:39And the bravery to walk away.
45:41Yeah.
45:42Like what was that?
45:43Fuck this.
45:44Fuck you're full of shit.
45:45You want all these girls to have their tops off.
45:47And how dare you?
45:48I was furious and I also felt embarrassed.
45:52I was like, I can do that.
45:54This is worth no amount of money.
45:56I will go back in sweet floors at my restaurant.
45:58Fuck you.
45:59I'm out of here.
46:00Amazing.
46:01Also a demonstration of the power of saying no.
46:03Yes.
46:04That's what I was just going to say.
46:05This whole conversation we've been having.
46:07In anger.
46:08And how you can use your anger sometimes to fuel you forward.
46:11That's right.
46:12There's nothing wrong with it when it's used appropriately.
46:14It made me really angry.
46:16You know, the thing that was a revelation for me was it wasn't until we started having the conversations
46:21that I realized I had been sexually harassed.
46:23Interesting.
46:24Yeah.
46:25I didn't even.
46:26The amount of things that you hide away in a place.
46:28I had, I had said, oh, that's the business.
46:31Yeah.
46:32And then all of a sudden I was like, wait a minute.
46:33No, that's not the business.
46:35I was sexually harassed.
46:36Yeah.
46:37And it was my, my very first movie out of, out of graduate school, a walk in the clouds.
46:43It's a long story, but basically I was tricked into signing a nudity waiver by the producers.
46:51And they basically said, oh, the director just has a big ego.
46:55We can't because it's PG 13.
46:57We cannot show any.
46:58So if you sign it, nothing's going to happen.
47:00And the day I, I showed up, they said, okay, this is your, your lingerie for the first part.
47:05And this is your nude scene.
47:07And I said, nude scene.
47:09And they're like, oh yeah.
47:10And I, the producers were there and I went in.
47:13I was like, wait a minute.
47:14We talked on the phone when you said that, you said that it wasn't going to happen.
47:17It's a PG 13.
47:18And they're like, not an international.
47:21Oh my God.
47:22No.
47:23I'm so sorry that happened.
47:24That's awful.
47:25I think also those are the kind of professional graduations you have.
47:29And then the times that movement makes you go back and think of just personal exchanges with industry people.
47:34Oh, and it got worse.
47:35I mean, you know, when I was on, on set and he was lifting up the thing and looking at me and throwing it down just, just to look at me to like, it was a power thing.
47:44And I said to him, you know, before we shot, I'm like, you know, I like to be prepared.
47:49You know, can you tell me like where the angles are?
47:51And he literally said, you are an actress.
47:55It's how dare you ask me to tell you what my shot is going to be.
47:59You are an actress.
48:00It is your job to get naked.
48:02And that's it.
48:03I was in LA.
48:04My agent, my funny agent was in New York and, and I didn't have the strength that Molly had, you know, and you call your agent and they're like, you could say no, but you'll be fired.
48:15You know, and I was getting paid scale.
48:17I was getting paid nothing, but it was my big break, you know, and I, I just, I was like, just feel sure I didn't get through it.
48:26And yeah, I think that's another powerful message to women too.
48:29That's just in the right tone of me for me is women are afraid to rock the boat.
48:34Yeah.
48:35And there's a reason women are afraid to rock the boat.
48:38Yeah, exactly.
48:39I also have to say, I think it's okay for men to be uncomfortable.
48:42I don't agree with tearing anybody down, but I think it's okay for people to be uncomfortable and for things to be brought to people's attention that they are not aware that they're doing or aware that they're doing that need to be pointed out.
48:54That we are in a different time where like, and I think part of the training and part of the systemic issue is that women are trained to worry so much about a man's feeling or an other person's feelings that we put ours aside.
49:10I was at a group conference and it, you know, I, I'm, and I said, someone said, how do we teach young boys, our sons, our little ones in this time that they're not villainized.
49:22And, and then I was saying like, oh wow, since evolution, we've accepted like the man's superiorness and everyone's been okay through the centuries of that.
49:33I think the shift will be positive crickets on tumbleweeds in the audience.
49:38And I was like, did I say something wrong?
49:41Um, but I feel just like you.
49:43I don't, I, it's just, again, I think the fight is for the equality and the balance.
49:48Right.
49:49It's not about tearing men down.
49:50And it's true.
49:51And on that note, I don't know if you guys feel this way, but sometimes it can feel because of social media and the time we are with internet and everything that, that if you don't say everything perfectly, you can get pounced on.
50:02Yes.
50:03There's no context.
50:04Shamed publicly now, like you have to be some perfect robot politician.
50:07Because I agree with you and I posed it that way and it was like.
50:11And these conversations are often messy, you know, sometimes you're transforming a thought and you're not going to say it perfectly.
50:17And we need to cut a little slack here, you know what I mean?
50:20Absolutely.
50:21And they're messy between other women too.
50:23I mean, one of the, one of the most interesting and important parts of this, I think, has been speaking with other women that I disagree with.
50:31Yep.
50:32Women of different ages, of different backgrounds who we don't align.
50:36And it is uncomfortable and it sometimes, it sometimes doesn't go so well.
50:41But that to me also feels like one of the most important parts of this is that women begin to understand each other's experiences and how they differ.
50:49And why we feel the way we do and how our own experiences have informed those things.
50:54And that's something that we can then share outward to include other people in.
50:58I think it's a great point.
50:59I'm going to take a sharp left turn here quickly.
51:02Yeah.
51:03Can I just say one thing?
51:04Yes, please.
51:05All our shows are about life's mess.
51:06And I wanted to get specifically to that.
51:09Neither one of us have said the names of our shows.
51:11I snuck mine in.
51:13I got you in there.
51:14I think I did it.
51:15Okay.
51:16I never said that before.
51:18No, but I am curious because you are somebody who has, who really has moved into different types of comedy and drama.
51:26Why was this, what was it about this show, Divorce, and the stories that you were going to be able to tell that made you say, this is what I want to do next?
51:34Well, I was so excited to work with Sarah Jessica Parker, number one.
51:37And then secondly, I think that, you know, so many people struggle in marriage.
51:42It's really hard and you can feel really alone in that.
51:46Really alone.
51:47My character is a character who has a volatile marriage, a rollercoaster marriage.
51:52And I have so many women coming out to me like, I relate to your character.
51:55Like they really related to it.
51:57I felt like this is so great.
51:59You know, women need to see themselves represented on screen.
52:02And I just felt like it was really real.
52:04I mean, look, over 55% of marriages don't work.
52:08You try to heal these old parts of your childhood through marriage.
52:12And most of the time it doesn't work.
52:14It's really hard.
52:16How are you?
52:18Good, how are you?
52:19Good, Diane.
52:20This is Jackie Giannopoulos.
52:22I have heard so much about you.
52:24That, have you?
52:25That's so interesting because I, I've heard nothing about you.
52:28I didn't even, honey, you didn't tell me that Robert was going to be our dinner guest tonight or that he was bringing the Jack, Jackie.
52:35I left a message on your cell.
52:37Oh, for God's sake.
52:38I haven't listened to that thing in two years.
52:40I don't come from a traditional home.
52:42I was raised by a man.
52:44My mom died when I was little.
52:45So I'm not from, I don't have any kind of ideas about how life should be for women and children and families.
52:51I, I'm the most open person.
52:53And so traditional marriage is like an odd kind of foreign thing to me that I really don't know that much about even though I'm in one.
53:00I was going to say, you and Prince are such an amazing example of making it work.
53:05No, but I was going to say, there's a great Nora Ephron quote where she says, how could I know what's going on in anyone else's marriage when I don't even know what's going on in my family.
53:14That's very tough.
53:15What?
53:162017, 2018 season.
53:20Oh my God.
53:21That's hard.
53:22Whoa.
53:23This is not a lightning round type of question.
53:24This is like, give me half an hour.
53:26I'm going to mispronounce your name.
53:28Is it Yvonne Orgy?
53:30Yvonne Orgy.
53:31Orgy.
53:32I think.
53:33In Insecure.
53:34I believe.
53:35Is maybe my favorite character on television right now.
53:38And I think she's so, so fantastic.
53:39Can we have a why?
53:40I just, I love their relationship.
53:43I love their friendship.
53:45I love how the show focuses on it.
53:46And I feel like it's a character I haven't seen much before where she appears to be so together in every way.
53:54And yet she can't quite get the piece of her life together that she desires the most.
53:59She wants to be in a relationship and she can't quite figure it out.
54:02Yep.
54:03But, but on the surface she maybe has her life and not, not in a joking way.
54:07Genuinely.
54:08She has an amazing job.
54:09She has great friends and seems like she should have the perfect life.
54:13And I just have loved watching her.
54:16Anyone else?
54:17A character, a show, a performance.
54:18I like Heidi Klum in Project Runway.
54:21Because I love Project Runway.
54:23And she's so pretty.
54:24I don't think she's on Project Runway anymore.
54:25Yeah.
54:26Yes, she is.
54:27The real.
54:28Yeah.
54:29I was like, what?
54:30I was like, don't do it.
54:31I was like, don't do it.
54:32I was like, that's so bad.
54:33I'm sorry.
54:34I love like just watching Project Runway.
54:36They're not bitchy.
54:37It's not house wise.
54:38It's not anger.
54:39People are making cool things.
54:41And then they judge them.
54:42And that is exactly all I want when I'm like, my kids have gone to bed and I've done everything
54:47I need to do.
54:48I'm like, Project Runway.
54:50What about the rest of you?
54:52Handmaid's Tale.
54:53The opposite of that.
54:54The opposite of that.
54:55The opposite of that.
54:56Handmaid's Tale.
54:57What about the rest of you guys?
54:58I'm a die hard Atlanta and baskets fan.
55:01Yeah.
55:02So Louie Anderson and I love Paperboy.
55:04I think his performance is extraordinary.
55:07I love Atlanta.
55:08It's so good.
55:09What about you guys?
55:10Well, just cause she said Atlanta and I was going to say Donald Glover as Teddy Perkins
55:15has been haunting me.
55:16Haunting me.
55:17Haunting me.
55:18Literal nightmares.
55:19Haunting me.
55:20And this is like a person I know.
55:21So like to have him transform into that character.
55:24I mean we all know him, but you know.
55:25No, that was really it.
55:26It was like, it took me a couple scenes even just to be like, is that?
55:30I knew in the first moment and then I got lost.
55:33I have like three.
55:35I would say Atlanta, but from the Donald perspective and hero of the show, the way they are telling
55:42story and the fact that each episode is not linear and you literally almost don't know
55:47what show you're in.
55:48It's like a different genre.
55:49It's unbelievable.
55:50The way they're telling story is really interesting to me.
55:53Wendy Rhodes on Billions.
55:55The fact that a female is in the power position in every scene that she's in kind of blows my
56:01mind.
56:02And then Phoebe Waller-Bridge in Fleabag to see a woman be so flawed and so mean and so
56:10human and the lead is.
56:13And the creator.
56:14And the creator.
56:15Like all of it.
56:16Molly, do you have one?
56:17Dateline.
56:21Rachel Maddow?
56:22I can't get enough.
56:24I'm like, why do women in particular love murder?
56:27Rachel started talking about you were a wrestler.
56:29Obviously there's glow.
56:30So if you had to come up with your wrestling persona, it would be.
56:33Oh, Jesus.
56:34Oh God.
56:35You want to start with me?
56:36Because I'm supposed to have.
56:37It's just a name.
56:39It's ready to go.
56:40Like what's a.
56:41Yeah.
56:42Well, like a stripper name.
56:43You can ask this a lot.
56:44It's not like a stripper name.
56:45Although I do find that, you know, there used to be the way to.
56:48Your street.
56:49And your middle name.
56:50Yeah.
56:51Or I thought it was your street and your first pet.
56:53Oh yeah.
56:54Yeah.
56:55Lady Joy.
56:56But the red one is more dominant.
56:57Yeah.
56:58That would be me.
56:59I would be Lady Joy.
57:00I would be Lady Joy.
57:01No, it's just my pet.
57:02That's really good.
57:03That is a great wrestling character.
57:04I assume we're positive.
57:05We can do that.
57:06Lady Joy.
57:07Lady Joy.
57:08Lady Joy.
57:09Good.
57:10Lay the happiness on you.
57:12I'm gonna put my hands on joy on you.
57:15That would be a great superhero power.
57:17It's just like, while I've got my golden lasso on you, you will be happy and kind and nice.
57:22I like that.
57:23Does anyone else have one?
57:25My brother and I got into a fight recently and he goes, Frankie, you and your articles.
57:30That's Boston for articles.
57:32You and your articles.
57:34So I don't know if there's something in there.
57:36You'd be like, article Jones?
57:38Yeah, there you go.
57:39Yeah, article Jones.
57:40Yeah.
57:41Yes.
57:42I'm gonna write you to death.
57:43I love that.
57:44I love that.
57:45With the truth.
57:46What's your truth?
57:47What is the pet?
57:48What is it?
57:49Your-
57:50Sissy Waterford.
57:51Oh, I love her.
57:52Oh!
57:53She's a little southern.
57:54Yeah!
57:55What is so annoying?
57:57Sissy Waterford.
57:58She's a pet and you headed my first date.
58:01Sissy Waterford.
58:02Mine's pretty good, too.
58:03Mine's Lacey Arlington.
58:04Oh!
58:05Oh!
58:06That's good.
58:07She's like leather and lace.
58:09Yeah.
58:10She's a little-
58:11Mine would be Gertie Poinsettia.
58:12I don't think-
58:13Gertie Poinsettia.
58:14It's so good.
58:15Gertie Poinsettia.
58:16Gertie Poinsettia.
58:17She sounds like she's retired.
58:19Gertie Poinsettia.
58:20Yeah, she's definitely older.
58:22Yeah.
58:23She's a little older.
58:24She's older.
58:25And undesirable.
58:26But maybe she dresses like an infant.
58:28I don't know.
58:29Oh!
58:30There comes a wrestling part of it.
58:32Is that the like-
58:34Gertie maybe wears a diaper.
58:36That's the fetish.
58:37It's the fetish.
58:38It's the fetish.
58:39It's the fetish.
58:40It's the fetish.
58:41There we go.
58:42What's your pet and street?
58:43It's pet and your street you grew up on.
58:45Oh, Hannibal Winchell.
58:46Hannibal Winchell.
58:47Hannibal Winchell.
58:48She eats people.
58:49Serial killer.
58:50Serial killer.
58:51Yeah, yeah, yeah.
58:52Biting.
58:53A lot of biting.
58:54Mine would be Kitty Winthrop.
58:55Oh!
58:56Winthrop.
58:57That's just a good conversation.
58:58Very scary.
58:59In your next project.
59:00Yeah.
59:01On this note, we're ending.
59:04Thank you so much.
59:05Thank you for having us.
59:06Thank you so much.
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