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Grand Designs Deconstructed Season 1 Episode 1
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FunTranscript
00:00Hello, and welcome to the newest and grandest podcast in the world. It's the Grand Designs
00:25podcast. I'm Greg James. This is Kevin MacLeod. Hello. Put it like that, Greg. It sounds really
00:30momentous. It is momentous. Yeah. We're going to dive into each episode of this new series,
00:37and I actually can't believe it's taken you 25 years to get around to doing a behind-the-scenes
00:42show. Finally, we're giving the people, and I include myself in that, what they want,
00:47because we want to know the goings-on of this show, which I think is one of the greatest TV
00:51shows ever made. Well, thank you. I am so excited and delighted that we're doing this together,
00:57because we've talked about it for so long. It's just lovely to be able to dig deep into the projects.
01:01So I wrote an article about my love for Grand Designs, particularly in the pandemic. I revisited,
01:06and me and my wife started the whole thing again as a comfort, and you saw the article,
01:12and then we were in the middle of lockdown, and it was a Friday night. I remember it vividly. I said
01:16to my wife, I'm just off to have a Zoom with Kevin MacLeod. She was cooking. She was cooking.
01:20We basically had a bottle of wine each. Yeah, we did. And we sat and chatted.
01:24And here we are. This is it. Didn't we follow through? Yeah.
01:28But we're going to focus, aren't we, week by week, on the episode we've just seen on television?
01:31Yeah, and also the big themes of the show. The stuff that people love the show for. The
01:36going over budget. The why are you doing this in the first place? The mad idea that someone
01:42wrote on the back of a matchbox. Great episode, by the way.
01:46The babies. The babies that people decided to have in the middle of a project, for goodness sakes.
01:49The conspiracy theories around that as well. Yeah, but let's not go there.
01:52Wow. That's for another episode.
01:54We heard the music before this episode started. What does that music do to you?
01:59It's an amazing theme tune. It's in this lovely three, four time, you know, with a little
02:04bit of kind of imagination and a mystery about it. It always sounds like there's a quality
02:08of like, elves, run for the hills. It's got that kind of wonderful, magical, fairy tale-like
02:15quality to it, which is pretty. People have got married to it.
02:18I would. If I have another marriage, I'd do that.
02:20It would need 100% consent, obviously, from both of you.
02:22We'd need an officiator.
02:24Don't look at me.
02:24Oh, come on. Grand Designs is famous for having divorces.
02:27So Daisy Goodwin, who came up with the idea, she said it is a great programme, but it doesn't
02:31have a format. The only thing you know is at the end, it's either there's a finished
02:34house or there's a divorce. It's one or the other.
02:36Well, we're also going to focus on the episode we've just seen, and that features wonderful
02:42Sarah in the Durham Dales. We'll chat to Sarah a bit later. A really lovely character.
02:46I love this episode. It's a really lovely start to the series, and it looked cold.
02:50Yeah, she's 1,100 feet above sea level on an exposed moor. She grew up in the area, and
02:55she'd been working and living all her life in the South of England, working in the artistic
02:59community because she's an artist. And her kids grew up, and she went through a divorce,
03:02and she thought, actually, what do I do next in my life? And it was to move home, to go
03:07back to near where her mother lives. And she's chosen this kind of really windswept location
03:11in the most remotest of all villages, really. But I admire her for that because there's
03:17an artist that could be. It's always the artist that we turn to for regeneration. They're always
03:20the first people to move in somewhere and to build unusually, and this is what she's done.
03:24We'll dig into the big talking points of the episode shortly. But before we do, do you
03:28watch the show back when it goes out on telly?
03:30Yes.
03:30Because I think a lot of Grand Design's viewers will settle in and have snacks and drinks and
03:37have the whole evening planned. And I wanted to bring a bit of that to this podcast by having
03:41a drink pairing for each episode. And so what I've done is I've gone to a local brewery
03:46in Durham, and in here is a ruby ale from a local brewery.
03:51Nice.
03:51Because of the ruby red roof. So cheers.
03:54Clever you.
03:55Try a bit of that.
03:56Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is...
03:58Mmm.
03:59It's quite nice, isn't it?
04:01I like a ruby ale.
04:02Cheers.
04:03It's also a hundred-year-old recipe.
04:05Mmm.
04:05As a nod to the original farmhouse that was on that lamp.
04:08Yeah, indeed. And that's worth mentioning because by the time we got there, I thought,
04:12this is good.
04:12Isn't it?
04:13It's really good. When we got there, that original house had been already dismantled beautifully.
04:17Of course, she was able to use all the stone from that in the new building, which was a
04:20nice reuse on site.
04:23I also wanted to just make a nod to the weather, and I got a little fan, but it's solar-powered.
04:30Are you hoping to mimic the effect of 80-mile-an-hour winds at 1,100 feet?
04:34Yeah. I think you wore your biggest ever gloves in this episode. They're ridiculous. They were
04:38like four times the size of the hand.
04:39They were massive. They were North Pole gloves.
04:41Also, I really enjoyed that you and her had the same flat cap on.
04:43We bonded over our flat cap choices, yeah. It's true.
04:46Should we dive in on the budget thing? Because as a viewer of Grand Designs, I always get
04:51halfway through, and I'm sure there are millions of other people that always go, do they not
04:55watch Grand Designs? They know the pitfalls. They know what's coming. Do they genuinely
05:00think it's not going to happen to them?
05:01They genuinely do think it's not going to happen to them. They do watch Grand Designs.
05:04It's just that they've never built before. And so there's a sort of an understanding in
05:07their mind that this will be the one project in the history of building which has come in
05:10on budget. This is the mentality which underwrote how much HS2 was going to cost.
05:15So on the count of my three favorite variables, budget, time, quality, on all three. And I
05:22look at the project we filmed and think, well, okay, they overspent, but it's a beautiful
05:26thing. However, one thing I will say is when I ask people, how much are you tending to
05:30spend? What they're really quoting me is the figure of the money that they've got, not
05:35what it's going to cost. And I've done this. I employed a quantity surveyor to give me
05:39a price. And I looked at the price he quoted me and I thought, I can't spend that kind
05:43of money. It's ridiculous. It won't be worse than that.
05:45When it's done. So I ignored it. And then I built, and then that's how much it did cost
05:50in the end. And there's a good argument for using quantity surveyors. And it's a very
05:53simple one. That is that if they weren't right, they wouldn't exist. And I reckon about
05:5810%, maybe 5% of our contributors, they do use quantity surveyors and about 5 to 10% of
06:04projects come in on budget. And I suspect they're the same projects.
06:08So this one, Sarah wanted to spend $330, ended up spending $520 so far. So that's $190,000
06:16over. That's 60% over. Even in the history of the show, that's quite an overspend.
06:19That's quite an overspend. But then she's got 180 square meters of usable space that she
06:23can live in and work in. My favorite figure is always to quote the cost per square meter.
06:28Right. Because, you know, we have this amazing metric in the UK, which is that we measure
06:32the value of a building by the number of bedrooms it has. It doesn't matter how big the bedrooms
06:35are, or whether there are any bathrooms. There might not be a kitchen in the house. As long
06:39as it's got three bedrooms, it's going to be worth that. Or you could convert that broom
06:43cupboard into an extra bedroom, add another $25,000 to your house value. It's an absurd
06:47way of measuring quality of life, and even of measuring the contribution of architecture,
06:52right? So what they do in the rest of the world is either use a cost per square foot
06:56or a value per square meter. And it's a really useful metric, I find. And looking at that,
07:01she ended up spending about £3,000 a square meter, which is these days quite cheap. I mean,
07:08before COVID, it was sort of bang on for quite high level self-build, but now everything's
07:12gone up. So everything's gone up since COVID?
07:14Yeah.
07:15Why else has everything got more expensive? Why do people keep doing this?
07:18Labour's got a bit more expensive, partly because there are fewer people who are any good.
07:22And the whole market has not had any input of training for about 40, 45 years. So
07:26the big bulge of talented, trained people that came through. We got to COVID and most of them
07:33said, oh, I quite like this early retirement thing. I don't think I'm going to go back.
07:36And so we lost a lot of skilled older people in their 50s and 60s. And as a result, you know,
07:42good people, good plumbers, good electricians can sort of charge more because they're rare.
07:46This is the problem is because everyone watches Grand Designs and they go,
07:49oh, I could do that. Then you get a load more people who do 60% over the budget. And this is
07:53the whole thing.
07:54That is true. Although I wouldn't say that the precondition of building or as of filming a
07:58building is that it has to go over budget. I love it when things come in on budget. I love it when
08:02the quality isn't compromised, because that's the thing we're really trying to champion is
08:06beautifully made things. And the money is always kind of entertaining. And it's a terrible thing,
08:10actually, when it goes really heavily over budget, because then that's all the story becomes about.
08:15And the lovely thing I think about the stories we tell is that they're multifaceted. There are lots of
08:19threads running at the same time.
08:21But you also have to be fully invested in these stories. And it must be quite difficult when you
08:25have to discuss the sad news or the difficult decisions and you're presiding over it. That's
08:30hard, isn't it, for you to do that?
08:32Yeah, of course. I mean, there's a team of us working on it. You know, everybody gets really
08:36invested in the projects. You can't help that.
08:38Throughout the episode, you are worried as the viewer that she's going to have to sell
08:43the holiday cottage and the money becomes a huge issue. And then there's that very moving scene
08:48in the caravan, where not if hemp has been ordered, it all gets too much. And you understand that as a
08:54viewer, you think, I'd be crying at this point as well. How do you deal with moments like that?
08:58You know, that moment came about as an inevitability of not having enough cash in the
09:03first place and just praying and hoping that it would become good. And of course, things go wrong,
09:06that's life. These are people who don't have to be on television. We're not paying them to become
09:13television stars. This isn't some form of weird reality program. This is just life. And therefore,
09:20we want to tell a story which they will recognize as being their story. It's that simple,
09:24being honest. And there is a delicacy, therefore, and a subtlety that's required not to milk those
09:31moments, because they're profound in their own right. They're not scripted and they're not set up.
09:36They are just caught. And it's an important part of the job, actually, is bringing humanity to the
09:42role, rather than saying, oh, we're going to move on to the weather. You know.
09:47Have you ever got to a point ever where you've thought, oh, Channel 4, hi, can you send them
09:52some money because they're really struggling here?
09:54Once or twice, I have literally left sight in the evening to go and get a train thinking,
09:59they only need 10 grand. I wonder if I could. And of course, you wake up the next morning,
10:03and you think, oh, if I'd thought that about every project that had gone over, well, I wouldn't be
10:07here. I'd be six feet under. Because you become emotionally involved and you want to help. And
10:12the best help I think I could possibly offer is, here's a phone number of somebody you can ring.
10:16Or speak to those people who were in series 14, who did a similar thing. And that's the odd thing,
10:23is that when I say that, they say, oh, yeah, yeah, we've done that. We're on the same Facebook group.
10:26They gave us the idea.
10:27And it is slightly odd when you've discovered that contributors have been speaking to each other.
10:32Well, that's good that you didn't give 10 grand, because they'd have gone,
10:35if you cry in front of Kev, he'll get his checkbook out.
10:38Just for the record, it won't ever be happening.
10:41Right.
10:42Should we talk about hempcrete?
10:44We can.
10:45For those that haven't seen this episode, hemp plays a big role.
10:50Sarah uses hemp as one of the main materials.
10:53And it's important to say that the construction material is a form of cannabis sativa.
10:56That is, it's the same plant, identical to look at, but without the psychoactive ingredient.
11:01So you can't get high off a house.
11:02You can't get high off a house, other than from the majesty of the architecture.
11:06Great. It's now a big part of my life, hemp.
11:08Yeah.
11:09Hemp clothes, hemp shoes.
11:11So my underwear is hemp.
11:12I wonder why you're scratching so much.
11:14No, it's super smooth.
11:15And I alternate between hemp and bamboo.
11:17And the interesting thing about that, I was thinking about this,
11:19is that bamboo is the fastest growing crop on the planet, right?
11:23Super sustainable, needs no input.
11:25Hemp is the second fastest growing crop on the planet, needs no inputs.
11:29So we really, in all seriousness, you're underpants aside,
11:33we should be using hemp way more in our lives.
11:36Oh, yeah, yeah.
11:37Why are we not fast-forwarding this?
11:40I don't know.
11:40This feels sustainable.
11:41We could save so many forests.
11:42This could be great.
11:43Maybe it's a little bit more expensive.
11:44Maybe it's because, not in France, but in the UK,
11:47we have a natural resistance to new products, new ideas.
11:51The idea that you could use something that's really sustainable and so simple.
11:56Surely there's something wrong with it.
11:58I don't know.
11:58Right.
11:59There's a slightly anti-diluvian preference for brick in this country.
12:02I also don't like the word hempcrete.
12:04I know concrete, I get where it's come from, hempcrete.
12:07Because concrete is also an adjective.
12:09You know, you have discrete and concrete.
12:10It means, you know, something is solid.
12:12But I don't really know what else to call it,
12:13because it looks a bit like concrete, but it isn't.
12:16Much lighter.
12:16Call it hempcrete, then.
12:17Call it hempcrete.
12:18I'm sorry, Greg.
12:19No, no, no.
12:19I was watching it going on.
12:20That's just what we're calling it now, is it?
12:22I hadn't heard of hempcrete before this episode.
12:25But after watching it, that's all I think about.
12:28Hemp is a fantastically versatile plant.
12:31It grows straight and true like a big stalk.
12:34It's got fibers in it, which have been used for centuries for rope making and sail making.
12:38The world used to be made out of this stuff until plastics came along.
12:41And there's stalks, which are often the waste product.
12:44Somebody said, we could build with this.
12:46So the factory we visit is a state-of-the-art, modern, futuristic factory,
12:50which takes the stalk of the hemp plant and chops it up and then gets rid of all the dust.
12:55So it's very pure stalk fibers.
12:57And they are mixed with a lime binder.
13:01Wow.
13:01And it's kind of a cool thing, because it's made out of very, very time-honored materials.
13:05And incredibly sustainable, like timber, so you can grow it again.
13:08Well, it takes three months to grow to about eight foot tall.
13:10It sequesters a huge amount of carbon, of course, on the way through from the atmosphere.
13:13And then you lock it away in the building.
13:15And you end up with a lightweight wall, which is structural and thick and insulating.
13:19And you can simply plaster it on the inside and render it on the outside.
13:23And you need to put nothing else into your wall, really.
13:25And that's sort of Sarah's approach.
13:27Hemp has been grown in the UK.
13:29Yeah.
13:29Why did you go to Champagne?
13:30Or is the answer obvious?
13:33Because I assumed, because you said, and we're in Champagne, look at hemp.
13:36I thought it was like Champagne, in that you can only call it hemp if it's from the French town Ope.
13:41It's got its own DOC on the bottom.
13:43Yeah, yeah.
13:44It's nothing to do with the Champagne thing.
13:45You can't call it Champagne unless it's from Champagne.
13:47You can call hemp from hemp wherever it's from.
13:49Yeah, indeed.
13:49So why did you go to Champagne?
13:50We went to Champagne because it's been grown there for centuries, continuously.
13:54And there used to be a big paper mill.
13:56We didn't get that far.
13:56We had a quick lunch.
13:57Okay, well, we believe you.
13:59The reason why the hemp had to come from Champagne was because in this factory there's amazing dust extraction machines.
14:06The machines have giant springs that just wobble around to shake the dust out.
14:09And that makes for a much better hemp product.
14:12A much better drink, hemp.
14:14What I find interesting is you go to France, it's like loads of people build there and they're growing it everywhere and there are these amazing factories, right?
14:20In the UK there's almost nothing.
14:23There's a historical reason for that.
14:24And that is we had a dangerous drugs act which basically said no to growing anything like that.
14:30And even though it's not psychoactive, you'd have to smoke an entire field and you'd still have no effect, right?
14:35It seems absurd that you would ban...
14:37Have you checked that?
14:39I've tried.
14:40I haven't.
14:42Believe me, you'd have to smoke an entire field to get any effect.
14:46To get no effect.
14:46Kevin, I'm really enjoying this chat, but we are bound by adverts.
14:52In Grand Designs, it's a huge format point, isn't it?
14:55The jeopardy up to the ads.
14:57So give us some jeopardy so that people come back and watch the next bit of this.
15:01What's the sort of thing I would say?
15:02I don't know, something like, it was all going so well.
15:05It was all going so well.
15:07And then...
15:08And then...
15:09My favourite one was on Ben Law in about 2003.
15:12He built this beautiful house in the woods.
15:14Nothing went wrong with the project.
15:16And at one point I found myself saying,
15:18the product's going well, Ben's got the frame up,
15:21but it's September and winter is coming.
15:25Maybe I'll say that every time.
15:27The podcast is going well, but it's October and winter is coming.
15:33I like your delivery.
15:35And so are the adverts.
15:36They're coming now.
15:37Yeah.
15:46Kevin, one of the things I'm very, very excited about getting to do the show with you
15:49is that I want to speak to the star of the latest episode.
15:53Sarah?
15:54Yeah, we should call her up.
15:55And also, can I just say, I think it's stars because it's Sarah and her house,
16:00because it's the new entity.
16:02Well, Sarah and her house are about to pop up on the laptop in front of us.
16:07Hey, Sarah.
16:08Hi.
16:08Hello, Greg.
16:09And hi, Kevin.
16:10What a great episode, first of all.
16:11I absolutely loved it.
16:13I'm so pleased that your episode was the first of the series.
16:16That's a great honour.
16:17Do you realise the badge of honour that is?
16:18Yeah.
16:19No, I didn't know that was an honourable position.
16:21And I'm really pleased that this episode has gone out fast.
16:26For my first proper question, Sarah, with this unique access to you, is Kevin a good houseguest?
16:31Oh, Kevin's a great houseguest.
16:34He's an incredibly engaged person who is fascinated and very knowledgeable about build process and architecture.
16:42I'm just texting Sarah what to say.
16:44You say houseguest, it's been a building site for so long, and then all of a sudden there is that transformative moment where you take your shoes off at the front door, you wipe your feet, or you knock, you know, where you don't just walk in because it becomes somebody's home.
16:59And I think the relationship between building and art and people is a really interesting one, because, of course, the building happens because of a creative process.
17:05The building comes from people, but very specifically, this building is for creativity, and it's for other people.
17:12It's a springboard idea.
17:14You've got to pour the energy into it, and then it throws something back.
17:17I was wondering, Sarah, you know, has that already started to happen?
17:20Because you've been teaching, haven't you, in the space?
17:22Yes, I've kicked off the classes.
17:24Fortunately, I've got a very engaged group of people in the village who have really bought into expressive drawing, really, so that's fantastic.
17:34And I'm working towards, at the moment, having a public exhibition of the build drawings and inviting all of the trades who worked on the house to that evening, because that's the first time a lot of them have seen the finished build.
17:49You know, they did their bit, including the architects.
17:52So, I think it'd be great to see all of those reactions from the people when they come here to the space, yeah.
18:00Has the new landscape and environment affected your art in any way?
18:06The field next door has got some fantastic young bullocks in.
18:10Actually, the farmer texted me and said he's got some real little characters that he's putting in there.
18:15Those young bullocks, they're brilliant to draw.
18:17As soon as they see me out there with the drawing board, they all come over and stick their heads over the wall.
18:21I love this. It's like people often move to the middle of nowhere and they worry about how they're going to integrate into community.
18:27And Sarah, of course, got to know the local farmers because it's a very agricultural rural area.
18:30And now you've got a Durham hill farmer texting Sarah to let her know when the interesting bullocks are coming, because he takes an interest in her art.
18:38There was lots of that in the episode, but I really was interested in the relationship that you had with David, the builder, who, at the start of the episode, was quite sniffy about hempcrete and said it would be the first and last building using hempcrete.
18:53Do you think that you changed his mind at all?
18:55Do you think that you managed to get him along, you know, your way of thinking a bit more?
18:59Oh, I don't know that. You'd have to ask David that.
19:02But David was actually key for my carrying on with the hempcrete because there was a very tricky week where I was receiving conflicting advice about which hemp and which binder to use.
19:16I actually had started to consider hemp block.
19:19And then David turned up, actually, and he said, what, you're not doing the hempcrete?
19:22But I thought the whole thing was about hempcrete, so funnily enough, I think it was actually David who was responsible, or certainly was a nudge, to kind of carry on.
19:32I have one more thing, and we've had a lovely chat.
19:35I wanted just to check that if you had your time again with your grand design, would you get Kevin and the team involved again?
19:43Did you enjoy the process of your story being told on TV?
19:46Did you think that was a fun part of it?
19:48I really did. And in fact, I think it was a crucial element because when I was thinking of applying, someone I knew said, for God's sake, don't do it.
19:57They said, the last thing you'll need when there's, like, they're putting up the, you know, the timber frame comes on site, it's the stress of a TV crew.
20:04But actually, having them around, they kind of, like, provided a support network.
20:09They were the only people, I would say, who were genuinely interested in the detail and the minuti of, you know, how to crop a stone.
20:19My mum always said to me at the end of the day, oh, how's it gone? And I'd start to talk and she'd, like, disappear.
20:29That's lovely to hear.
20:30It defeats me why people are prepared to lead us into one of the most stressful experiences you could ever inflict upon yourself and then to add to it with the film crew.
20:40But I have to say, for us, it's a huge privilege. And we are always sensitive to that because we feel that it is only thanks to the grace of people like Sarah that we're asked to come along and enjoy the ride with them.
20:51Sarah, thank you so much for being on episode one.
20:55And I wish you many, many happy years in your house.
20:58And I hope they're warm years and I hope loads of people enjoy it and make wonderful art in there as well.
21:03Sarah, we'll come back again. We'll see you soon.
21:05And I'll try to persuade Greg up.
21:06I'm there.
21:07He's there.
21:08See you then.
21:08Thank you very much, guys. Bye-bye.
21:10Kevin, we're almost out of time on this episode.
21:13Can't believe it.
21:13But I've been trawling the Grand Designs fan sites and the joy of having a show that's been on for 25 years is there's so many questions, so many unanswered things.
21:21OK.
21:22Claire from Chester says, have you ever come across someone whose unhinged idea actually turned out to be genius and worked far better than anyone could have imagined?
21:30Oh, yeah. There are plenty of those. Thank you for that question, Claire.
21:33The whole point about all of the people we film, it's like they've joined a cult, you know, their eyes glaze over.
21:38And it doesn't matter what I say or anybody says, they believe that this extraordinary idea is going to happen.
21:43And you might think that odd and a little bit unhinged, but actually nothing in the world would ever get built if people weren't like that.
21:51It's within all of us, that.
21:52Let's have another one.
21:53How about this one from Eleanor in Hampshire?
21:56Kevin, do you always only wear blue slash navy? Is blue your TV colour?
22:02Of course I wear other colours. Just not today.
22:05Well, we've got variations on navy.
22:07Do you know what? I've discovered a long time ago that if everything's the same colour, life's a little simpler.
22:12But you do like a nice colourful neckerchief.
22:14Occasionally.
22:14Yeah. Jazz it up.
22:16Yeah. But it's school uniform. That's what it is for me.
22:19And what about in real life? Do you wear your TV uniform in real life?
22:23Greg, this is real life.
22:25Wow.
22:26This is what we do.
22:26He's getting existential, guys. It's nearly time for a monologue.
22:29Greg, thank you very much for listening and watching. And Kevin, it's been a joy. I can't wait for the rest of the series. And we'll be there tracking every single move of these amazing builds.
22:40But I should add, as we are talking right now, we're still making the rest of the series.
22:45Really?
22:45Yeah. It's happening almost in real time.
22:47You'd better get going then.
22:48No, no. It doesn't stop.
22:49Kevin, thank you. We'll see you for the next episode. And we hope to see you on the next one too. Please make sure you're subscribing to this wonderful podcast slash podcast, whatever you want to call it.
22:59And come back soon for more.
23:01Can I just say, you can access the entire archive of Grand Designs. That's 26 years worth on the Channel 4 website. And you can also access a selection of programmes on YouTube.
23:12Meanwhile, we look forward to seeing you next week. There's a new episode of Grand Designs, of course, 9 o'clock Wednesday night, followed by this. What's not to like?
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