- 4 days ago
Case Clay took a break from the Keeneland September Sale to join us on this week's TDN Writers' Room. The owner of Case Clay Thoroughbred Management discuss "bonkers" sales results, the latest news from Wathnan Racing and more.
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00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:23Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast presented by Keeneland.
00:32My name is Bill Finley and I do a lot of things, including working for the Thoroughbred Daily News and Sirius XM Radio.
00:39You're very busy, Bill. You're a very busy man. You're much busier than me.
00:42I've got NBC Sports going and some buyer speed figure things.
00:45My name is Randy Moss. Zoe might be busier than both of us put together.
00:48Yeah, if you catch me dotting around throughout the show, I'm trying to duck the sun.
00:54So everywhere I move, the sun is following me because it's baking here at Keeneland.
00:58It's just about as hot as the price is going on in the ring.
01:02We're into week two of selling horses and it has been absolutely crazy.
01:07You don't know who I am. I'm Zoe. I work for First TV and I have a bee buzzing around me right now.
01:13If there was something alcoholic in this can, I'd be really upset, but it's just water.
01:17For a Southern Californian, you sure are complaining a lot about sunshine, Zoe.
01:23It's hot, though. Go away, busy bee.
01:27All right. Well, the biggest stories over the weekend on the racetrack were two, the two two-year-old races at Churchill Downs, the Iroquois and the Pocahontas and the Woodbine Mile up at Woodbine.
01:37I would like to start with the Iroquois.
01:39It was won by Space Runner, trained by Steve Asmussen.
01:43Jose Ortiz was aboard.
01:46He beat the 65 favorite Comport, turning the tables on him because he was second to him in his previous start.
01:52First of all, the history of this race is not that good when it comes to predicting future runners or future stars.
02:01In 2016, not this time one.
02:04He's more than made his claim to fame in the stallion market.
02:082001 Harlan's Holiday, not a Kentucky Derby winner on the list.
02:12I don't think that's going to change, but he's by gun runner.
02:15So, you know, he's got the right breeding and the right trainer in Steve Asmussen.
02:21And he's got a decent pedigree on the female side as well that tilts a little bit towards sprint.
02:26But, you know, I was thinking about these fall two-year-old races at Churchill Downs.
02:31And I was, you know, last year, we were so impressed with Sovereignty and the way he won some of those races at Churchill Downs.
02:39So I went back.
02:40But Sovereignty won the Street Sense at Churchill Downs in late October.
02:45The Iroquois, I think you're right, Bill.
02:47I mean, it's okay.
02:48It's, you know, it's a decent race.
02:50But I think this is sort of like your typical Iroquois winner.
02:55He's going to have to improve a lot off of that performance from a numbers perspective, mid-70s, to be any kind of a contender going forward.
03:05I would suspect that there are going to be some arrows in the Winchell Asmussen quiver that are probably more talented than this colt.
03:16But, hey, I wish I owned him.
03:19And he just won the Iroquois.
03:21So congratulations.
03:21Congratulations.
03:22Yeah, greatest stakes winner, a homebred for Winchell Thoroughbreds.
03:26Gunrunner is just on the cusp of everybody's lips basically throughout the whole of Kentucky right now.
03:32So it was a good race.
03:33Comport, I thought, got mugged on the wire.
03:36He led every step of the way, bar the pass, the last jump.
03:41He ran a really good race.
03:42Either one of them runs spectacularly.
03:45I'm not sure we see the derby winner out of there.
03:47I think perhaps the runner-up might have a future on the grass.
03:50He's a son of collected.
03:52But Spicerunner was good enough, and I'm sure we're going to see a lot more from him, especially some more Winchell Homebreds.
03:58And Spicerunner happens to be a full brother to Gunite, who, of course, we saw run quite a bit, who was an outstanding one-turn horse.
04:08But we'll see if Spicerunner can do a little better than his brother.
04:13So the Pocahontas was also on the card.
04:16That's the equivalent of the Iroquois for two-year-old fillies.
04:20And this never ceases to amaze me, what Kenan Peake is capable of doing.
04:24Race was won by Taken by the Wind.
04:26He bought for $20,000 as a yearling.
04:30She aired one by five and a quarter in a really impressive performance.
04:36And, oh, by the way, her co-owner is Terry Bradshaw.
04:40Now, I don't know what kind of number she got.
04:42We'll hear from Randy in just a moment.
04:44But visually, she was very, very impressive.
04:47Now, she's by Rock Your World.
04:49He's actually fourth on the first crop sign list, which maybe was a bit of a surprise to a couple of people.
04:55Yapon is first.
04:56Max Field is second.
04:58Nixco is third.
04:59And then here we have Rock Your World.
05:01So he's really starting to come into his own.
05:03But she was very impressive.
05:05She won and drew off by six.
05:07She was perfectly ridden by Iron Ortiz, who looks like he's following his brother to Kentucky.
05:11Not content with doing well in New York, he's decided to shift his tack to Kentucky.
05:16Ground-saving trip.
05:17And visually, she was impressive.
05:19Now, she probably didn't get a high number, did she, Andy?
05:22No, she got a 72 buyer.
05:25And she was coming off of a win at Saratoga in a $75,000 maiden claimer.
05:33She was not in for a tag in that particular race.
05:35It wasn't a very strong field.
05:36She got a mid-50s buyer.
05:38And as a result, she was the fourth choice of the public in the Pocahontas at six to one, even though she won by daylight in that career debut.
05:46But, yeah, I mean, she's got a lot of improving to do, as we mentioned about the Iroquois winner.
05:52But I agree with you.
05:53She was much more visually impressive, I think, than the Colts.
05:58And so, I mean, she's got some promise.
06:01And Zoe, you've seen this so many times from McPeak buying these $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 horses, and they turn into stars.
06:09I'm sure he's keeping his secrets to himself, doesn't want the competition to know what he knows.
06:14But what's your take on that?
06:16How has he consistently been able to do this?
06:20I don't know.
06:21He's got a very good eye for a horse.
06:22He looks at a lot of horses.
06:24And the one thing about McPeak, he's not worried about pedigree.
06:27You know, the Rock Your World kind of came in under the radar, much like the Austin Performances did their first year at a horse sale.
06:36They're race horses, not sale horses.
06:38Kenny doesn't care about any of that.
06:40He's looking for race horses.
06:42So I think that is what greatly helps him.
06:44And if he says yes, you know, he's got the owners with whatever budget they have, but trusting Kenny, and quite rightly so, he does a great job of picking out individuals on their athleticism and not off their page.
06:58Yeah, it seems to me like there's a particular type of horse that he's looking for, right?
07:03The distance type horses.
07:05Rangy, athletic.
07:05Yeah, tall, rangy, with some scope, as they say.
07:09And he's done a great job in finding those horses at good prices.
07:14The other major race, among other major races, because they had a really good card at Woodbine on Saturday with three grade ones.
07:22But the Woodbine Mile was the story of the day in Canada.
07:25And Charlie Appleby, boy, we've never seen that before.
07:27Him shipping into Woodbine to win a grade one race.
07:30Got it done with notable speech.
07:32And I think this was a good race for this horse and a good prelude up to the Breeders' Cup.
07:38He hadn't won a single race this year.
07:42And his last win was in July 31 of 2024.
07:45But in his last start, he really showed something new.
07:50He was much better.
07:53In this race, he actually had a pretty bad trip.
07:55He broke bad.
07:56He had to wait for room down the backstretch.
07:59And then he came with a big kick.
08:00He was third in the Breeders' Cup Mile last year.
08:03And I'm sure he will be considered one of the favorites for the race this year.
08:06Yeah, so the Goodolphin-Appleby connection with the Woodbine Mile started back in 2022 with Modern Games, who shipped in and won very impressively and went on to the Breeders' Cup and ran well, as we know.
08:212023, they sent Master of the Seas.
08:24He won the Woodbine Mile impressively.
08:27They lost in 2024, but now back with notable speech.
08:30The difference is the regular Woodbine turf course has always been very kind to the Europeans, right?
08:38Gentle turns, wide, expansive, perfectly tailor-made for European horses like Appleby brings over.
08:45But that particular turf course, the main turf course at Woodbine, is under renovation right now.
08:51So this year, they had to run the major turf stakes races in the fall.
08:55On the inner turf course, which is much tighter, not as kind to the Europeans, that was a concern for Appleby in bringing notable speech there.
09:05And quite frankly, Zoe, after he got squeezed back at the start, I didn't think there was any point in the race where I really thought, oh, wow, notable speech has got him, right?
09:17Until they angled him out, until William Buick angled him out at the top of the stretch.
09:23And, you know, then he came with that late kick that we're so accustomed to seeing from Group 1 Europeans.
09:29What a terrific horse and a terrific ride.
09:32And Will Buick actually said afterwards he was concerned when he was pinched back about being that far back.
09:38It will be a perfect setup for the Breeders' Cup off that tight track down to Del Mar as well.
09:44He did say it perhaps hurt a couple of the other horses being on the inner turf.
09:49Obviously, the Woodbine mile is usually a one-turn mile.
09:52That was no problem for notable speech, the two turns.
09:55But Wild Desert was second in the summer stakes, perhaps compromised by those tight turns as well.
10:01Riley Mott, of course, won another grade one with the Argos there.
10:05And then the Natalma run on the inner turf course as well.
10:08Josie Carroll winning that one.
10:10And the Dolphin running fourth with Dance to the Music.
10:12So, while they did win the big one, Bill Buick did say perhaps their chances were hampered just a little bit by running on the inner turf.
10:20But those are good horses that beat them.
10:22If I get run over by a horse, will you yell if there's one coming towards me?
10:26Because there's a lot of noise going on back here.
10:30And I'm just going to see it.
10:31It's a great background noise, though.
10:32I'm just going to see like a horse come flying and that'll be the end of Zoe.
10:37Bill, you mentioned the notable speech hadn't won in quite a while.
10:40It had been more than a year since he won the Sussex Stakes at Goodwood.
10:44But anyone who's got access to Internet can go back and look at his last start in Deauville in the pre-Jacques de Marat.
10:54I'm pronouncing that wrong.
10:55But it was a group one in Paris.
10:58And he was beaten in a photo by Diego Velasquez.
11:02And he was probably three lengths the best.
11:05He was bottled up until the very end, came flying along the inside and just missed.
11:11So he should have come to Woodbine on a one race winning streak.
11:15And he's really clicking on all cylinders right now.
11:19Pre-Jacques Lemoy.
11:22You're welcome.
11:23Oui, oui.
11:24Now, if you hadn't guessed already, by the soundbites and the surroundings here, cue horse right there.
11:30The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
11:33And what a week it has been for the sales company.
11:36Now, listen to this.
11:37On Sunday, after just six sessions of the September sale, the gross was $417 million.
11:46That exceeded last year's 12 session, the whole sale that was $411 million, a gross record for the entire 12-day sale.
11:57We're only halfway through and we've already matched it.
12:0156 yearlings have sold for $1 million or more compared with 36 last year, including a $2 million intermission cult on Saturday,
12:10the highest price horse of any fifth session of the auction.
12:14With several days to go, you'll see more records falling every single day.
12:19We'll be right back after that horse and this message from Keeneland.
12:24It all comes down to this.
12:27Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
12:28The moment that defines the year.
12:31When the world's most influential buyers gather.
12:34And every decision, every bid, every opportunity shapes the future.
12:40At a marketplace that brings the thoroughbred world together.
12:44And where futures are forged.
12:47Because every moment matters.
12:50At the world's yearling sale, Keeneland September.
12:54Our fastest horse of the week brought to you again by the fast sires at Windstar Farm, where life is good in more ways than one.
13:02The stallion life is good, who you will hear more about shortly, is off to such a hot start with his yearlings at Keeneland September.
13:09That among first crop sires, he currently ranks second only to flight line, a horse that life is good has chased before.
13:16His average yearling bringing $336,000, median $300,000.
13:23Life is good's top colt, $1.25 million.
13:27His top filly brought $1.025 million.
13:31Those are some heady numbers.
13:33Of course, life is good knows all about fast starts.
13:36His speed on the track resulted in four grain one victories and nine triple-digit buyer speed figures,
13:41including that $1.12 buyer that ranks number one among all sons of Into Mischief.
13:49Now for our fastest horse of the week, the four-year-old colt, Ben Tornato,
13:54who Saturday might have run himself right into early favoritism for the Breeders' Cup Sprint
14:00with his powerhouse performance in the Louisville Thoroughbred Society stakes at Churchill Downs.
14:06Ben Tornato won by five and a half lengths with a career-high buyer figure of 108 in his first start
14:12since last year's Breeders' Cup Sprint, which he lost by only a half length to straight no chaser.
14:18Ben Tornato was scratched in December from the Malibu with a foot issue that kept him out of training
14:24for an extended period of time, but he is back in a big way.
14:28And trainer Jose D'Angelo said Ben Tornato might not need to run again until his return to Del Mar
14:36for another run at the Breeders' Cup Sprint.
14:42Now we welcome in the Gainesway Guests of the Week, and it's Case Clay,
14:46the owner of Case Clay Thoroughbred Management and the racing manager for Wathland Racing.
14:50He's also the former COO of his family's Three Chimneys Farms.
14:54And Case, I know it's busy this time of year with the sale and everything,
14:56so thanks for taking a little time out of your day and to chat with us on the TDN Writers' Room podcast.
15:02Thank you for having me.
15:05We're going to ask you a lot of questions about Wathland and about your career and everything,
15:09but Randy Moss used a term last week about the purses at Kentucky Downs called them bonkers,
15:17which I thought was a perfect way to describe it.
15:20This sale is bonkers.
15:22What is going on?
15:23Well, I think I'm glad that you mentioned that about the purses and the tie to the sales,
15:33because I think it's very appropriate.
15:35I think that going back to Corey Johnson days at Kentucky Downs
15:42and the advent of HHR, which was just a very smart play by Corey and his team.
15:52And then I think there are a lot of behind-the-scenes heroes that are a part of this,
16:01and our state legislators, there are a lot of them that, but, you know, just Governor Beshear,
16:11Rocky Adkins, Damon Thayer, David Osborne, Robert Stivers, a lot of guys.
16:16In 2020, we were up against the ropes in Frankfurt of whether this HHR would pass or not.
16:25And thankfully to a lot of those folks, it did.
16:29And so the purses were bonkers at Kentucky Downs this month,
16:34and a lot of that translates, I believe, to these prices.
16:41It's not the only factor, of course, the 100% bonus depreciation.
16:46And now we're moving to national legislators that helped us there.
16:52So I think that the prize money, the purses going back to HHR in Kentucky,
17:03and also this bonus depreciation, and the amount of wealth in America.
17:11You know, there are folks, friends of mine that were standing at Saratoga in August,
17:16and this is what we do.
17:18We know who a lot of the players are in this business,
17:21and we're looking at this gentleman in the front row bidding $2 million on a yearling,
17:25and we'd never seen him before.
17:27And I think that speaks to the breadth of America.
17:30I talked to a lot of kind of European bloodstock agents and farm owners in Europe,
17:35and it's a lot smaller there as far as the breadth of wealth.
17:41So I think breadth of wealth, prize money, 100% bonus depreciation,
17:45certainly are playing big factors in the perfect storm here at Keeneland and Saratoga.
17:54Well, Case, I want to talk about your background just a little bit.
17:57I mean, you're developing quite a reputation in the bloodstock business
18:00after having grown up around Three Chimneys.
18:03And please correct me if I'm wrong.
18:05I would think that being at Three Chimneys as a COO,
18:08your primary focus would be stallions and broodmares and matings and operating the farm
18:15and things like that, quite different from scouting bloodstock.
18:19So how did you get your education in the bloodstock end of the business?
18:26Well, you're exactly right.
18:29That's a great question.
18:31I think a lot of it, when my first foray into racing was when I was in the fourth grade.
18:41My father syndicated slew of gold, which I told him.
18:47He was in the fertilizer business and the horse business,
18:49and he told me I'm going to get out of the fertilizer business and do horse business for full time.
18:55And I told him I thought that was a really bad idea and that he had a family to support.
19:02But fortunately, he did.
19:04And so we would go to New York and see him run.
19:08And he was winning the Marlboro Cup and the Jockey Club Gold Cup and the Woodward.
19:13And at that time, I thought, well, this is easy.
19:16You just go up and you watch him run.
19:18You go to Wendy's on the way to the airport and then fly home and go to school the next day.
19:24So I think the reason I'm bringing that up is I've always just really loved the racing part of it,
19:30even though that wasn't my day-to-day business in the family business at Three Chimneys.
19:35But what an absolute pleasure for me now to be able to, as my job, be in the racing part of it.
19:45It's just so much fun.
19:47So, no, it wasn't part of my day-to-day at Three Chimneys, but I always just followed it and loved it.
19:53And, of course, when you have stallions or when you're involved in stallions, you are following the racing quite a bit
19:59because you want them to do well so that your stud fees can go up.
20:04Well, that's certainly a fantastic start.
20:06But I'm going completely off base because I want to find out about Second City and your stand-up career.
20:13Because this, to me, we'll get to Walkman Racing in just a moment, but I need to know.
20:19I've heard little snippets of you being quite funny, and a couple of friends said that they've seen you perform, and you were awesome.
20:27Well, I obviously was not funny enough because here I am in the horse business, and I'm not in Hollywood or New York.
20:34But when I was in college, senior year in college, my friends were interviewing for entry-level jobs at Arthur Anderson in the corporate world,
20:48and I thought, I don't want to do that.
20:50I didn't really think I wanted to be in the horse business when I was 22 years old.
20:56I had worked growing up on the farm for Gary Bush and Dan Rosenberg and prepping yearlings and everything.
21:03But then I just decided to make a foray into – my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, she took me to the Second City.
21:14We saw a show.
21:15Tina Fey was in the show, and she came out on stage after and said,
21:20we have a training center here, and you can take classes and perform.
21:23And I said, that's what I want to do for, you know, get a day job and try and do that at night.
21:31So I gave myself a little window, and my friends are – I'm like the – what is it?
21:37The fifth Beatle, that drummer that never became famous.
21:41I guess that's me.
21:44Pete Best, I think, is the name you're trying to come up with here.
21:48Pete Best.
21:49Yeah.
21:50No, Zoe, I did love it.
21:52I wouldn't trade it for the world.
21:57W.T. Young told me when I was 17, take a big risk before you're 30 because if it doesn't work out, you're still young enough.
22:04You can still, you know, do something else.
22:06And so I had that in my mind.
22:07I thought, I'm going to take a risk and try something.
22:10I'll never kick myself for not trying it.
22:13Made some great friends, and it was a great adventure.
22:16Do you have a best line?
22:18I don't have a best line.
22:19I'm still looking for a best line.
22:20Come on.
22:22Other than Tina Fey, any famous comedians that you've encountered along the way that were highlights?
22:30Oh, yeah.
22:31I mean, I was in, I was really just by stroke of luck.
22:36In my group was Seth Meyers and Jason Sudeikis.
22:40Wow.
22:41Wow.
22:42Yeah.
22:43And Seth is one of my best friends.
22:46And, yeah, Jason Seth, Jack McBrayer, who was in 30 Rock.
22:50And, yeah, there were, there were quite a lot of them.
22:54So, but just by luck, they put you in groups and I was in their group and it was a lot of fun.
23:01And, Case, the main thing you're doing now is working for Wathen Racing, which is really just exploded onto the scene.
23:09Just a few years ago, they were running horses in Qatar and Arabian races and really weren't one of the leading thoroughbred outfits in the world or in the country.
23:18How did you get involved with them and what now are their goals?
23:22It seems they're being very aggressive.
23:25Yeah, well, they started in, I guess I'll start with the goals part and then I'll flip-flop those questions.
23:33But the remit from the beginning has been to try and buy horses that the Amir and his family would enjoy and be proud of.
23:42Wathen Racing is the racing vehicle for the Amir of Qatar.
23:45And so that's what we're trying to do in, in what I'm trying to do in America and Richard Brown's trying to do in Europe.
23:54And, of course, the goal in America is not only to buy horses that the Amir and his family would enjoy and be proud of,
24:02but to win the Kentucky Derby, just like everyone else out there at Keeneland right now.
24:07I became involved.
24:10Ollie Tate is kind of our quarterback.
24:13And he and I have known each other for 20 years.
24:19We met in Australia.
24:21We became closer when he lived here in Kentucky for a few years running the U.S. operation of Godolphin.
24:29And they started in Europe and did very well.
24:35They had two starters in Royal Ascot and they both won.
24:38One of them was Karaj Mano Mead to win the Gold Cup.
24:42And they decided to expand in America.
24:44And Ollie called me when I was driving back to the house in Saratoga two years ago.
24:50And I'm very grateful.
24:54So, Case, right now, the impact of Wathnen in Europe is way up here.
25:00The impact of Wathnen in the U.S. is down a little lower, but growing with Hitshow and Subsanador, et cetera, et cetera.
25:07Do you see the U.S. branch of Wathnen eventually being as important as the European branch of Wathnen?
25:15I mean, so currently we have Wathnen racing in the U.S. has 11 four-year-olds and up, seven three-year-olds, 24 two-year-olds, and 17-yearlings.
25:31So, you know, the younger, it's starting to kind of ramp up a little bit from the younger ages, just using those numbers.
25:40The hope, yeah, the hope is to do so, yes.
25:43Now, there are horses that race in America, and just like Hitshow, and he went over to Dubai, and Cagliostro went over and ran in the firebreak, some of those carnival races.
25:59So, the hope is, yes, to be that, but I'm just here taking the direction.
26:06And we're hopeful about the 24 two-year-olds and the 17-year-lings that are in the pipeline.
26:11Wow. That's a good number.
26:15You mentioned Sub-Saturn Roll. He's back on the work tab.
26:18Are you hopeful to make some big races? Where's he going?
26:22So, after he won the California crown, he had a little line in his ankle, and so he missed the Breeders' Cup.
26:32And he's been off for quite a long time.
26:34It's just healing has been very, very slow.
26:38He is jogging.
26:40He started jogging only about two weeks ago, jogging and water treadmill.
26:46He's at Windstar Farm at the training facility.
26:50And the hope is on October 4th, they clear us for galloping, and we're going to try and get back with him.
26:55But it's been a very, very, very slow road back.
26:58But he is a happy boy because he's out jogging again, so that's good.
27:02Who are you most proud of?
27:03Who will be your best purchase so far privately?
27:07Hit Show.
27:07You're like, yes, Hit Show for sure.
27:09That's an easy one.
27:11So, Case, about Hit Show.
27:12He got back on the winning track in West Virginia.
27:16Is the Breeders' Cup Classic potentially in the pipeline now for him?
27:20We're keeping an open mind about the Classic.
27:22So, the Lucas Classic is the next stop he'll be pointing to.
27:28And then Brad Cox last year brilliantly mapped out his campaign.
27:33And what he said was, let's try and make him a win machine and hit some grade twos, some grade threes.
27:39And the reason we actually went out to the Santa Anita Handicap was because he wasn't qualified yet for the Dubai World Cup.
27:48And Erwan and Ali Ali are really great.
27:56Their system is really great in Dubai.
27:57I really like it.
27:59But they said, look, you're not qualified yet.
28:01You'll have to go to the big cap to try and get qualification.
28:06And we were basically on the plane or loading the plane on our way to go.
28:12And they called and said, he's in, but didn't want to really upset the apple cart and said, let's go anyway.
28:19And he ran a good race.
28:20The Locked just romped that day.
28:23But anyway, I'm digressing a little bit to your question.
28:28It's the Lucas Classic.
28:29And then we were thinking the same campaign, go to the Fayette again.
28:33But Ali Tate said, let's keep an open mind about the Classic.
28:37And he's qualified.
28:39It was Dubai World Cup was a win in your end.
28:40And so it's a possibility.
28:43Of course, there are some monsters in that race.
28:46But Forever Young was a monster, too.
28:48And you never know how horse racing unfolds.
28:54And so we might be there.
28:56That had to be an unbelievable thrill.
28:57Were you in Dubai for that race?
29:00I was.
29:00I was.
29:01And we took Flood Zone there.
29:04And he was the favorite in the UAE Derby.
29:07And was really thinking about Flood Zone that night.
29:09And if Hit Show could hit the board, it would be a win, honestly.
29:16And Flood Zone had some mucus and, you know, did not finish well.
29:22And so it was a little bit of a bummer going into the race and thinking, well, I called my wife and said, if we can get third, then it'd be a good result.
29:30And it just, yeah, it was an incredible, incredible few minutes.
29:36Well, it certainly was fun to watch.
29:40I'm at Keeneland.
29:41You're at Keeneland.
29:42I'm sitting in the sun and I'm actually just starting to bake.
29:45How are you managing this sale?
29:47How many have you got so far?
29:49And are you still going to try and outbid everyone towards the end?
29:53Or are you done?
29:54Because it's been insane.
29:55Always looking, always looking, have bought for Wath None Racing, have purchased 16 horses, 12 colts and four fillies.
30:07And then six for other clients at Keeneland.
30:12And so really, how I was managed, just like really anyone else, you get your team and you go with, you know, you go to war with your team and I have a great team.
30:25And so that's, but it's winding down.
30:28I will say, Zoe, it's winding down a little bit, but always looking.
30:32Yeah.
30:33And Case, the hot first crop sire, the debuting at these sales, of course, is Flightline.
30:39And I saw that you bought one by him, a colt out of Songgate, was the daughter of Songbird.
30:45Are there any other first crop sires that you have your eye on other than the obvious one?
30:51Yeah.
30:52Bought two Life is Good fillies for Wath None.
30:56I'm excited about.
30:58And then for a client in Fort Worth, bought an Olympiad colt.
31:03And so, yeah, I mean, Life is Good was such a great racehorse.
31:10But then again, it's so tough.
31:12Nobody knows who the great first season sire is going to be.
31:15I would not have predicted Tappett when he retired and he was a breed shaper.
31:21So it's, but happy to get those Life is Goods, the Flightline and the Olympiad.
31:27Well, Chris, that was fascinating.
31:30Good luck with all your purposes at Keeneland.
31:33And we'll be keeping an eye on one of the new and exciting ownership groups in Thoroughbred Racing, Wath None Racing.
31:38Once again, thanks for being our Gainesway Guest of the Week.
31:41And good luck on the racetrack and in the sales ring.
31:45Thank you very much.
31:46Thanks for having me.
31:47Case Clay, our Guest of the Week brought to you by Gainesway.
31:49Gainesway, honed to the grade one winning multimillionaire and track and stakes record setting, Olympiad.
31:57Olympiad took the Jockey Club Gold Cup with a 105 buyer.
32:00He took the Stephen Foster with a 111 buyer.
32:04Both of those, of course, grade one stakes.
32:06He also won three other graded races and set a track record at the fairgrounds running a mile and a 16th and won 42.01 in the MindChef stakes.
32:16Olympiad's first yearlings now selling at Keeneland September.
32:20And already he's had two $410,000 Colts.
32:26Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
32:45Olympiad gets the gold in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
32:49The big racing this weekend will take place at Parks Racetrack in Ben Salem Township, Pennsylvania, where the stars of the show will run in the Pennsylvania Derby, grade one with a million dollar purse.
33:11And the Phillies will do the same in the Cotillion Stakes, grade one with a $1 million purse for three-year-old Phillies.
33:18Several other really good stakes races on the card.
33:20But all eyes will be on the Pennsylvania Derby.
33:24And I also think all eyes will pretty much be on Baeza.
33:27I would expect he'd be the favorite.
33:29You almost have to feel bad for this poor horse.
33:31He's so good.
33:32But he just came around the wrong year.
33:34If he was born in any other year when there was no sovereignty in journalism, we might be talking about a horse that's going to be horse of the year.
33:40But this is no layup for him because Gosker is in here after running second in the Haskell.
33:47Goal-oriented is in here after running third in the Haskell.
33:50And what do you make of magnitude after winning the Iowa Derby by nine and a quarter, getting that big buyer figure, and then even though he's third, lost the Travers by 20 lengths.
34:01So I think if we're keeping score here, I'm going to pick Gosker.
34:05I think he's going to be a little bit of value because I think people are going to overbet Bob Baffert and Errad Ortiz with goal-oriented.
34:12But I wouldn't be surprised if Baeza won.
34:15And I guess I would be surprised if magnitude won.
34:19And I think you knocked the nail right on the head there, Bill, when you said every horse is in here who hasn't won that big grade one.
34:26Personally, I do like Baeza in here.
34:28I actually grabbed John Sheriffs when he was in the other day, just a couple of days ago.
34:33And I said, hey, John, you know, I didn't like that work the other day.
34:36I thought he was high-headed with Amy aboard him.
34:38And I talked about it and I didn't like it.
34:41He's like, the one just the other day with Hector Berrios?
34:45And I'm like, no, the one the week before.
34:46And he's like, oh, I put Hector on him this week and he worked brilliantly.
34:50So John gives him a big thumbs up for Baeza.
34:54He gets a good draw with Berrios aboard him.
34:56Okay, he is the horse to beat.
34:59I'm just going to put him on top.
35:01The interesting horse to me is David of Athens for Wathman Racing.
35:06This must have been Pace Clay's, one of his many jokes he tells, not to tell us about this horse that was running on Saturday.
35:14Because I negated to even look at the race until we came on.
35:18And David of Athens had a half-brother that just sold here at Keeneland just a couple of days ago.
35:22So I rather like this horse.
35:24Now, I'm not sure who he beat when he won at Ellis Park, but for Wathman Racing to jump in and buy him, he ran a 96 by a speed figure.
35:34He must have run a really good number on the rags.
35:36And visually, he was extremely impressive when he broke, when he ran at Ellis in that A of a van.
35:42So I'm just going to throw him in there.
35:44He's definitely a horse to watch.
35:46He's 12-1 on the morning line.
35:48David of Athens.
35:50All right.
35:50It would be easy to view Baeza as an underachiever.
35:56I mean, so much was expected of him being a half-brother to a Derby winner.
36:00You know, Mays, a half-brother to a Belmont winner in Dornoch, and he's won for seven lifetime, right?
36:06But then, as Bill pointed out, you go back and you just look at his past performances.
36:10He was beaten three-quarters of the length by journalism in the San Anita Derby.
36:14Third to sovereignty in journalism in the Kentucky Derby.
36:17Third to sovereignty in journalism in the Belmont.
36:20Second to sovereignty in the Jim Dandy.
36:22This is a really, really nice horse who just has the misfortune of being born in the same year as a couple of really, really outstanding three-year-olds.
36:32I think Baeza is a very nice horse, and if he just holds form, he doesn't have to improve.
36:38If he just runs the same way he's been running, I think he'll win.
36:43I love the way Hector Berrios rode him last time.
36:46Saved a little ground around the first turn, then swung out for the second turn.
36:50Gave him every chance to beat sovereignty and ran a hell of a race.
36:54He just got beat a length, and it just wasn't quite good enough that day.
36:58Gosker, to me, is really the only horse in there that can beat him, unless Magnitude runs back to one of his other freaky races.
37:05But I didn't like the way Magnitude just completely capitulated in the Traverse Stakes.
37:10So I think Baeza is clearly the horse to beat here.
37:14The Cotillion will be run as race 13.
37:19The 14th race is the Pennsylvania Derby.
37:22And this race, it seems, year in and year out, comes up tougher than the Pennsylvania Derby.
37:28And, you know, obviously the three-year-old Colts are the sexy division.
37:31Everybody zeroes in on them.
37:32But this is a better race.
37:34You have three grade one winners in here and none, as we mentioned, in the Pennsylvania Derby.
37:39You have Scottish Lassie coming off a runaway win in the coaching club, American Oaks.
37:44La Cara won the Acorn.
37:46And then you have Good Cheer, who was the Kentucky Oaks winner.
37:50So this is a really nice race that they put together here.
37:54I think I'm going to go for Good Cheer.
37:56I don't know what happened to her when she ran.
37:58Didn't run much at all on the Acorn Stakes and was beaten by La Cara, who she'll have to face again this Saturday.
38:05But she really ran back to her best form, I thought, in the Alabama, even though at least 91 by her number, I guess that's something you get too excited about.
38:14She got beat by Nitrogen.
38:15And, you know, right now, Nitrogen, I think, is the best three-year-old filly in the country.
38:19So I think she's back in form.
38:21But there's some very good horses in here.
38:24And I'm looking forward to this race.
38:26I thought Good Cheer ran a great race in the Alabama.
38:29The pace was totally disadvantageous to her.
38:32There was no pace in there whatsoever.
38:35Nitrogen controlled the pace, as we suspected she might.
38:38And yet Good Cheer made a run at her and kept trying to make a run at her all the way to the wire and winds up just losing by, what, a length and a half in a race that she had really had no business getting that close, given her running style and given the way the pace was up.
38:53I know La Cara beat her in the Acorn, but I agree with you, Bill.
38:57I mean, that was not your typical race for Good Cheer, whether it was the sloppy track or whatever.
39:01And what I said about magnitude in the Travers also applies to La Cara in the Alabama.
39:07I mean, she had a easy, easy lead.
39:11Maybe you can make the case that Dylan Davis should have just opened up and, you know, spread the field a little bit instead of trying to slow it down as much as possible.
39:20But, I mean, she backed up pretty badly in the Alabama, so it's kind of hard for me to trust her there.
39:24Scottish Lassie would be the only, to me, would be the main threat to Good Cheer.
39:31But I really like Good Cheer, Zoe.
39:33I'm going Scottish Lassie.
39:35You want to go for a Coke?
39:37Sure.
39:37Head to head?
39:38Let's go for a Coke.
39:38I already owe you a bottle of wine.
39:41Let's go for two, double or nothing.
39:42All right.
39:45All right.
39:46Let's do it.
39:49So why do you like Scottish Lassie so much?
39:52I just like the way that she has been training.
39:55She's, I think she's one of those late blossoming fillies who's just, she looks like a cult now.
40:00She's really filled out.
40:02You know, McKenzie will put a little bit of refinement into them, but she's out of a Bodie Meister dam.
40:08So she's just getting wider and thicker.
40:11And I feel that the fall is going to be her best time of her career.
40:15She's been freshened.
40:16We've not seen her since the 19th of July.
40:18Her works have been outstanding.
40:20She draws the rail.
40:21I'm absolutely fine with that.
40:23She actually had a half-brother by Corniche that sold very well a couple of days ago here at the sale.
40:29I'm going to put my money on Scottish Lassie, and you're going to owe me two bottles of wine.
40:33The only thing I don't like about Scottish Lassie is just, we both talked about how much we like Scottish Lassie in the Coaching Club American Oaks, right?
40:42Her last race, she wins the Coaching Club Oaks in a four-horse field, wins by 15 or whatever, runs a 99 buyer.
40:49The 99 buyer absolutely sticks out compared to all of her other earlier races.
40:55So you say, okay, what changed?
40:56Now, maybe she's getting, maybe like you said, she's growing up, she's getting more mature, whatever.
41:00It also happened to be the only time in her life where she made a clear early lead, which she's not going to get with La Cara in the field.
41:09So that was my reasoning for a good cheer over Scottish Lassie, but it should be fun.
41:15Now, what kind of bottles of wine are we talking about?
41:18$40, $50 bottles?
41:20Randy, you're going to buy her like the Boone's Farmer and the big glass jugs for $8.99.
41:25I'll buy her one of those cardboard boxes of wine.
41:30Right, yeah.
41:32I'll take two bottles of silver oak, please.
41:36Okay, all right.
41:37Let me write that down.
41:38Hopefully, we're back to even Stephen after this.
41:43All right, so some great rinks in at parks on Saturday.
41:47And we'll find out next week how much Randy owes Zoe in wine or if they're back to even.
41:54The TDN Riders Room is sponsored by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.
41:59Friday, a big day in their world.
42:02It is Pennsylvania Day at the Races at Parks.
42:05This Friday, September 19th, over $790,000 in purses on that card at Parks, including three $100,000 stakes races.
42:15This is the first post for that, 12, 15 p.m. Eastern.
42:19Then across the state Friday night at Presque Isle Downs, the $300,000 grade two Presque Isle Masters for female sprinters.
42:28Their Pennsylvania bred Candy Reward will put her six-race win streak on the line against a tough field.
42:33But remember, just last year, the Presque Isle Masters was won by a Pennsylvania bred in roses for Debra.
42:41You can become part of that Pennsylvania breeding program by going to pabred.com or you can call Brian Sanfrontello at 610-444-1050.
42:52The Pennsylvania breeding program is the best program in the country.
42:56The stallion awards, the owner bonuses, also the restrictive races and the stakes races for Pennsylvania breeds.
43:03This year, eight breeders are on track to earn over $200,000 in breeders' awards, and two could hit the million-dollar mark.
43:13We have the best program in the country.
43:17Take advantage of the fantastic program that we have.
43:20Learn more at pabred.com.
43:22With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,
43:27there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
43:32Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as it's average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
43:43Kentucky breds.
43:44Breed them.
43:45Raise them.
43:47Race them.
43:48We all win.
43:49So who won 40% of British classic races this year?
43:57If you said Kentucky breds, congratulations, moved to the head of the class.
44:01Ruling Court won the 2,000 Guineas.
44:04Then this past weekend, Scandinavia took the St. Leisure at Doncaster.
44:08That followed his win in the grade one Goodwood Cup.
44:11And of course, last year's champion three-year-old over there was Kentucky bred, city of Troy.
44:17Meanwhile, what have Kentucky breds been up to lately in the U.S.?
44:21Well, the Del Mar debutante, taken by Bottle of Rouge, the Del Mar Futurity, by the undefeated Brant.
44:27Both of those, of course, trained by Bob Baffert.
44:29The Franklin Simpson, just $2 million at Kentucky Downs troubleshooting.
44:34And the Kentucky bred won that one.
44:36Kentucky breds.
44:37Breed them.
44:37Raise them.
44:38Race them.
44:39We all win.
44:39Well, Zoe, we heard from Case Clay, and he gave us a lot of his opinions on why the ongoing
44:46Keeneland sale has been so strong.
44:49And, you know, the numbers, they just jump off the page.
44:52They're up in every single category.
44:54I think you mentioned that after, was it five days?
44:57They already passed the record for a 12-day sale.
45:01You know, just generally, what's your take?
45:03I asked Case the same question.
45:05You know, why is this sale just, well, let's go back to that word, bonkers?
45:10It's been 100%, the 100% depreciation.
45:14The tax write-off has been helping so many people just be like, okay, we're just going
45:21on this one.
45:22And it's, the July sale was okay, right?
45:25And then that all got passed through in Trump's big, beautiful bill.
45:28Well, I'm not massively into politics, but things changed from July, and they ran into
45:35August to Saratoga.
45:37People didn't get horses bought in Saratoga.
45:40They move on to book one at Keeneland.
45:42They didn't get horses in book one.
45:43They trickle down to book two, to book three.
45:46On Friday, it's a dark day at Keeneland, where usually the people that shop in books
45:51one and two, they leave.
45:52They get on their jets, and they get the heck out of here.
45:56And then people start coming in, and you'll see a few cowboy hats here and a few cowboy
46:01hats there.
46:02But nobody left, and everybody came.
46:05Trying to look at horses on Friday was insane.
46:08I mean, you were surrounded by like 15 horses, trying to walk these horses in a straight line
46:12to look at them.
46:14So it's just been absolutely bonkers.
46:17The 12-day total last year with 411 million was great.
46:22To already surpass that in day six, and there's six more days to come, is nuts.
46:2856 yearlings, a million or more, compared with 36 last year.
46:33The previous record of 40, do you know when that was held?
46:3740 horses worth a million dollars more.
46:39Guess when that was?
46:40Don't know.
46:42Right before the crash.
46:44I don't want to jinx anything.
46:45Let me touch the wood.
46:46That was in 2005.
46:47That record has held since 2005, and they've smashed it.
46:52It's been amazing.
46:54It's a boost to the breeders.
46:56Hopefully, a lot of it is going to trickle over in the racing.
46:59Because you know that people aren't buying.
47:01Cases can make a case for saying, you know, the purses at Kentucky Downs.
47:07People aren't spending $3 million on a colt to win at Kentucky Downs.
47:12They're spending $3 million on a colt to win in the Kentucky Derby, not Kentucky Downs.
47:18That's just a bonus.
47:19So it's just a big boost from the bottom up.
47:22It's going to help the breeding programs everywhere.
47:24It's been tough to buy.
47:26But there's been some really nice horses here.
47:28Book 4, I don't think I've ever seen as many nice horses in Book 4.
47:32They had a $2 million gun runner in Book 3.
47:35We bought a filly yesterday out of Book 4 for $400,000, a good magic filly.
47:39And so the quality is still here.
47:43And we're still shopping.
47:44It's been insane.
47:46Zoe, you work along with Merritt Farrell.
47:49Have you bought just the one horse?
47:52Wouldn't that be awful?
47:54No.
47:55I think she's up to 15 or 16 right now.
47:57Okay.
47:58And we bought a lot.
48:00I don't want to sound biased on here.
48:02But if you're going to ask me who my leader in the freshman sire would be, if you take out the flight lines, because they're going to be the obvious.
48:12I don't think they're going to be early.
48:13The life is good.
48:14It's going to be great.
48:15You want to know who the sleeper's going to be, who's going to get bred to a lot of mares this year?
48:19It's going to be Corniche.
48:20And people listening to this might think I'm biased because Merritt did purchase Corniche on behalf of Speedway Stables.
48:28But they're just really nice horses.
48:31They're good movers.
48:32They're correct.
48:32They're athletic.
48:34He, to me, is going to be the one moving forward to look forward to two-year-olds running.
48:38I don't know about the flight lines.
48:40They're probably going to be a little bit later.
48:42And most likely the best, best ones have not come to auction.
48:45So, it's a guessing game with freshman science, right?
48:52Nobody's right or wrong just yet.
48:55It's wonderful.
48:55You never know.
48:56And you won't know the answer for a couple of years.
49:00So, I wanted to show Paco Lopez a little bit of love.
49:04This is a guy who is flying under the radar.
49:08And one of the reasons is, is because he doesn't ride in New York, Kentucky, or California.
49:13He rides as his leading rider at Monmouth Park.
49:16But if you dig into the kind of year he's having, he's won 292 races.
49:23That's most in the country.
49:24He's won at a rate of 25%.
49:27At Monmouth, he won at a rate of 33%.
49:31You just don't see jockeys do that.
49:34He's 10th in the nation in earnings.
49:36And the other thing about him, this guy can't take a day off.
49:39I mean, when Monmouth is dark on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, etc., you can find him almost anywhere.
49:46He was second in the standings at Parks with 82 wins there.
49:50And he was the leading rider at Colonial Downs at their meet, winning 27%.
49:55Now, how does that compare to Irad Ortiz and Flavian Pratt?
49:59It's really an apples to oranges comparison because he doesn't ride against the top jockeys like they do all the time.
50:04And my friend Brad Thomas from the Monmouth Park simulcasting crew, who works on our SiriusXM radio show, he has opinions and he's not afraid to share them.
50:15I said Paco Lopez is the best rider in the world right now.
50:21I'd have to beg to differ.
50:24And, hey, listen, he's dominating.
50:26He's got a great agent.
50:28He's riding an awful lot of favorites, a lot of good horses.
50:31I just wish sometimes he'd pick up the reins.
50:35I hate seeing horses gallop along with floppy reins.
50:38It hurts me.
50:39If a horse takes a funny step or a stumble, you're gone.
50:43I'd just pick up the reins, Paco, do me a favor.
50:46But he's got a great agent.
50:47I'm sorry.
50:48That's my beef on Paco, and that's it.
50:51Just pick up the reins.
50:52But that's what works for him.
50:54I could never do that.
50:55I mean, we've seen a lot of times over the years, over the decades in thoroughbred racing, where you get someone like Russell Bays in Northern California at Golden Gate and Bay Meadows.
51:11And, you know, you get someone like Paco Lopez right now in Jersey, and they can look like the best jockey in the world.
51:22They can be just so dominant riding the best horses with a good agent and a talented rider to boot, a really talented rider to boot, that, you know, they can look like just an all-time great, fabulous rider.
51:37But to me, he's won for 17 in the Breeders' Cup, okay?
51:43He won with Roy H. in the Breeders' Cup Sprint.
51:45Hasn't won the Kentucky Derby.
51:46Hasn't won the Preakness.
51:47Hasn't won the Belmont.
51:49If he could have even close to the same level of success in New York or Kentucky with the purses in Kentucky, don't you think he'd be there?
51:58Oh, absolutely he'd be there.
52:00You know, so while I think Paco, and I, look, I share your respect for Brad Thomas.
52:06You know, the guys like Andy Serling and Brad Thomas, all the respect in the world for him.
52:09They do their homework.
52:10They have good opinions.
52:12But this is a game of opinion and differing opinions.
52:16Brad has that opinion.
52:18I can't agree.
52:19I think he's a fine jockey, an outstanding rider, but can you put him in the top five in America right now, much less the top five in the world?
52:30That would be, to me, that would be a stretch.
52:33All right.
52:34Well, and again, you know, he doesn't show any inclination to go to Kentucky or New York.
52:39So, I mean, I think he just likes winning races.
52:42And it's obviously a little bit easier to do it at Monmouth and Colonial Downs and Parks than it is at Saratoga and Del Mar.
52:48But I just thought he deserves some recognition because this is an absolutely historic year for this guy, what he's doing.
52:56Just to be a leading rider at two completely different circuits, Colonial and Monmouth.
53:02And imagine Colonial runs on Saturdays, I believe.
53:04So he couldn't have even ridden every single day at Colonial during that meet at Monmouth.
53:09How many has he won, 293?
53:13200, he's 292.
53:17And this is on Tuesday.
53:18And he's riding somewhere today, no doubt about it, at, you know, Fairmont Park or something like that.
53:24Because that's what he does.
53:26And that number will obviously get well over 300 by the time the year is over.
53:32And he's pretty comfortably in front of the leading rider.
53:34Well, it could be, yeah.
53:35Well over 400, yeah.
53:36So looking at it right now, as we're speaking, I just went to Equibase, which has a great side for this.
53:44He's obviously leading the country in races one at 292.
53:48Jose Ortiz is next at 238 and Irad at 232.
53:54So a pretty significant difference there.
53:56But Paco's batting 25% for the year against lesser competition.
54:03Jose is 23% against the best and Irad 21%.
54:08Flavian, 24%.
54:10It's time for the First TV Work of the Week.
54:14The Work of the Week is brought to you by none other than First TV.
54:17Now, this is the Mike McCarthy-trained Touch of Destiny on the outside, working in company with Nick's Code.
54:24The pair worked an easy half a mile in 48 and 4.
54:27Now, if he's never heard of Touch of Destiny, don't worry.
54:30You're about to.
54:31He's an undefeated three-year-old from Uruguay who is now 6-for-6, winning a Group 3 in his last start in June.
54:38He's had two works that's been switched to McCarthy's ban and he could well be an exciting runner to watch out for.
54:44McCarthy said he's even eyeing the Breeders' Cup third mile for the Colts.
54:51Be a smarter bettor with First TV, the best horses.
54:57With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
55:05All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
55:10Everything you need to be informed.
55:12Be smart.
55:14Bet smart.
55:15With First TV.
55:20All the thrills.
55:25Fraction of the bills.
55:29Experience the power of the partnership.
55:32Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
55:42West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
55:46Visit westpointtv.com.
55:48The TD and writer's room also brought to you by our friends at West Point Thoroughbreds.
55:54Of course, Terry Finley and company have been very busy scouting and purchasing at the Keeneland September sales.
56:00West Point has added more than two dozen horses at that sale.
56:04And you can keep up with West Point.
56:06You can keep track of what they're doing and what they're purchasing.
56:08Just go to www.westpointtv.com to get the latest updates on Keeneland September.
56:17And maybe you can get involved with West Point Thoroughbreds as well.
56:20And on that note, we can wrap up today's show.
56:24I want to thank Randy Moss, Zoe Cadman, my co-hosts, and also Case Clay, our Gainesway Guest of the Week.
56:31Also, the people who work behind the scenes and do such a fine job to put this show out.
56:35Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
56:39It's going to be a good weekend of racing.
56:41The Pennsylvania Derby and Cotillion should be fascinating.
56:43I'm sure we'll be talking about them next week.
56:45So tune in.
56:46See you later.
56:50See you later.
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