- 2 days ago
Jose Francisco D'Angelo joins this week's TDN Writers' Room to discuss not only his first, but also his second, Breeders' Cup victory. The Venezuelan trainer earned back-to-back scores on Breeders' Cup Saturday with Shisospicy and Bentornato.
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00:00:00For the love of the worse, for generations to come.
00:00:23Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast, the post-Reader's Cup edition.
00:00:34My name is Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:37And I have a quick question for Randy Moss before we get into it.
00:00:40Where on earth did you get that awful outfit they put you on for the Halloween show on Friday?
00:00:46Boy, that was ugly, Randy.
00:00:47It was Halloween. Mine was better than Amit Fareed and Jerry Bailey's.
00:00:52It's the same one I wore, I think it was 2017, the last time the Breeders' Cup was on Halloween at Del Mar.
00:00:59I've still got it. I've got pants to go with it and a tie, believe it or not.
00:01:03What were you wearing?
00:01:04I'm Randy Moss, NBC Sports, trying to catch up on my sleep after Breeders' Cup week.
00:01:10I want to know what you were wearing.
00:01:11It was a, it was a, it really was more of a day of the dead, very, very gaudy suit jacket that we wore for one segment.
00:01:22And then later on, Nick Luck scared the horses in the paddock with his own version of a Halloween sports jacket.
00:01:30All right. I missed that one.
00:01:33Okay. I'm Zoe Cabin with First Racing and First TV.
00:01:36I'm at sunny Keeneland.
00:01:37You'll see some wheelings in the background.
00:01:40There is a wall here, so I'm, I'm safe this time.
00:01:42And you know what?
00:01:43They just brought me some avocado toast.
00:01:45Look at this.
00:01:46They're walking around with drinks and all kinds of food.
00:01:48Does that not look delicious?
00:01:49When I got off the plane, there was a bluegrass band playing as the people coming back from Breeders' Cup jumped off the plane at Bluegrass Airport.
00:01:57They had Arthur Hancock's bluegrass band playing and all kinds of Keeneland goodies.
00:02:02It's actually very cool.
00:02:03Bill, are you an avocado toast guy?
00:02:05No, I'm not an avocado guy.
00:02:07You're not?
00:02:08What's wrong with you?
00:02:09I'm a guacamole guy, but not an avocado toast guy.
00:02:12Yeah, exactly.
00:02:13Exactly.
00:02:14All right, guys.
00:02:14Well, as we said, this will be our show wrapping up the Breeders' Cup.
00:02:17And we're going to go through first the two juvenile races on Friday Run on the Dirt, starting off with the juvenile fillies.
00:02:23And I add to what Randy's going to say later in the show, congratulations to West Point Thoroughbreds, the owner of Super Corridora.
00:02:32Pretty impressive winner by three quarters of length over Explora.
00:02:36Tommy Joe was a bad fifth.
00:02:38That was kind of surprising me.
00:02:39And I'm going to be guilty of redboarding here, but I'm a little kicking myself for not coming up with this horse.
00:02:45And John Sadler explained it afterwards.
00:02:48The horse's first two races weren't very good or weren't very fast.
00:02:51As soon as he put this filly around two turns, totally different horse breaking her maiden.
00:02:57She backed that up in the Breeders' Cup, got an 84 buyer.
00:03:01We'll talk about the buyer numbers and the juvenile in just a second.
00:03:04But congratulations.
00:03:05And certainly she'll be the Eclipse Award winning two-year-old filly.
00:03:09Yeah.
00:03:09Sadler always felt that being a daughter of gun runners, she would improve substantially around two turns, which she did.
00:03:15Dramatically, she broke her maiden by eight lengths.
00:03:18Somewhat surprised, I think, Terry Finley and the West Point crew by suggesting that they run Super Corridora off a maiden race straight into the juvenile filly.
00:03:28She became the first juvenile filly's winner ever to go straight from a maiden special weight into the race.
00:03:33I thought it was a good tactical ride by Hector Berrios to aggressively put her on the early lead because, as we saw Friday and Saturday, speed was good, especially the inside path of the dirt track was good.
00:03:47No excuses for Explora.
00:03:48I mean, she tucked in right behind Super Corridora, got out when she needed to, just got outrun.
00:03:54A really strong effort by both horses.
00:03:57Yes, it was a brilliant ride by Berrios because he was determined to get the lead, get over, and get the rail.
00:04:04And he put one in kind of a difficult position.
00:04:07Does one go really, really fast?
00:04:09Now, you're on a bob horse.
00:04:10If I'm riding a bob horse in a two race, I'm going, regardless of whatever happens, I'm going.
00:04:16And Juan ceded the lead.
00:04:19I'm not sure if that was a good move or a bad move on Juan's part because the top two positions didn't change throughout the race.
00:04:26She went fast.
00:04:27She earned it.
00:04:2822 and 2, 45 and 3, 110 flat, 136 and 2.
00:04:32Slow down a little bit at the end.
00:04:35But Explora was second best.
00:04:36But that race was won purely by Hector Berrios.
00:04:40He's brilliant on the turf coming from behind.
00:04:42But when he's loose on the lead, he is hella dangerous.
00:04:47All right, we go next to the Juvenile one, of course, by Ted Noffi, by one length over long shot Mr. AP.
00:04:54Not an electrifying performance.
00:04:57Maybe we're setting the bar too high.
00:04:59But he got the job done.
00:05:01The time was relatively fast.
00:05:03Won 42.25, which was a second and a half faster than the Juvenile Phillies, 143.71.
00:05:11Brandt, the second choice in the race, I thought he ran third, but I thought he had absolutely no excuse.
00:05:17He got a comfortable lead and he couldn't hold off Ted Noffi, nor could he hold off the big long shot Mr. AP.
00:05:23It'll be interesting to see what Ted Noffi develops next year.
00:05:26Son of Intimischief, obviously Todd Pletcher, I would imagine, would take the Florida route to the Kentucky Derby.
00:05:31Let's hope he stays healthy and we have a very good two-year-old champion to look forward to next year.
00:05:38Yeah, without a shadow of a doubt.
00:05:40He was impressive.
00:05:41He deserved to win it.
00:05:42He was ridden forward by Johnny V, who knows him better than anyone.
00:05:47So he was much the best.
00:05:48Brandt, I'm sure we'll probably see him, at least for now, going around one turn.
00:05:53The son of Gunrunner.
00:05:54He's bred for two, but right now it looks like he'll be going around one turn.
00:05:58I thought Mr. AP, well done, Bill.
00:05:59That was a nice exacta for you.
00:06:01He did not even come across my radar until I saw him in the paddock and I kept looking around.
00:06:09I'm like, who's that horse?
00:06:10He never even occurred to me.
00:06:13And he was the best-looking horse in the paddock.
00:06:15Beautiful job by Vladimir Seren.
00:06:19And oh, a hot toddy.
00:06:21Yeah, I'll have a hot toddy.
00:06:22Hold on.
00:06:23Yes.
00:06:24You have hot tea with bourbon.
00:06:25Hot tea with bourbon.
00:06:26Look at this.
00:06:27I just got brought a hot toddy.
00:06:29Thank you very much.
00:06:31Sorry, guys.
00:06:31Train of thought got skewed by the hot toddy I'm about to drink.
00:06:35This looks delicious.
00:06:36Cheers.
00:06:36Oh, let me see.
00:06:37Hold on.
00:06:37All right.
00:06:37I've got really nothing more to add to that other than I might have to buy a vineyard to
00:06:41pay off Zoe from the bottles of wine that I'm going to.
00:06:44A bottles of wine?
00:06:45And how about, yeah, horse for horse, right?
00:06:48Yeah, we were horse for horse.
00:06:49What was your horse for horse bet there?
00:06:51It was, I made a way too early bet on Brandt against Ted Noffi before the final preps.
00:06:59Anyway, I got nothing really to add to the juvenile you guys covered.
00:07:02Let me skip real quickly through the other two-year-old races.
00:07:05In the turf sprint, the American Cypher beat the European Brussels, who might have been
00:07:09the best horse, broke slowly from the gate, which was a thing for the Europeans all weekend
00:07:15long in the juvenile Phillies turf.
00:07:17The long shot exact there was European on European, Valentina and Pacific Mission, both
00:07:22of whom broke slowly from the gate.
00:07:24And then in the juvenile turf, Stodd from Coolmore didn't break either, but he managed to be much
00:07:30the best and win the race despite a wide trip anyway.
00:07:34Yeah, he was certainly much the best.
00:07:36Back to Ned Toffee, his damn streak of luck was a supplement last night over at Passive Tipton
00:07:41November.
00:07:41She sold for $6.2 million and topped the sale over there.
00:07:46So lots of people rubbing their hands with glee.
00:07:49All right, let's move on now to the Saturday races.
00:07:53We kicked that off with the Philly and Mayer Sprint.
00:07:56In there, the winner was Splendora.
00:07:58But one of the stories was the scratches.
00:08:01And that was one of the stories of throughout the Breeders' Cup.
00:08:04I mean, you had some big ones in here, including Tamara and Sweet Azteca.
00:08:07Completely changed the complexion of the race.
00:08:11I know some people that really like Splendora.
00:08:13They must be happy that they won, but disappointed that the price was just sliced into ribbons because
00:08:19of all the scratches in there.
00:08:21Hope Road was my pick.
00:08:23I really liked her in there.
00:08:24She didn't really do much.
00:08:25She ran third.
00:08:26I like the comment in the Equibase chart about Splendora engulfed leaders, Randy.
00:08:33That horse was pretty impressive.
00:08:35Yeah, she was.
00:08:35It was the prototypical other Baffert horse that we see so often, right?
00:08:41I mean, I didn't like Sweet Azteca going in.
00:08:43I was hoping she would stay in there and elevate the price on Hope Road in particular.
00:08:47Curious strategy by Jose Ortiz to be up on the lead with Hope Road.
00:08:51But the fractions weren't supersonic in there.
00:08:54And I don't really think that was much of an excuse.
00:08:56Splendora was just the best horse.
00:08:58And Vava, a nice, distant second-place finish, but a nice second-place finish in what might be
00:09:03her final career start.
00:09:04I know it was an emotional week for Cherie DeVoe saying goodbye to Vava.
00:09:08But Splendora was just solidly the best horse.
00:09:12She was much the best.
00:09:13Got a terrific ride by Pratt.
00:09:16Sat in the perfect position for Splendora.
00:09:19And, you know, no Philly or Mare has ever won the Philly and Mare sprint going wire to wire.
00:09:26There's never been a winner going wire to wire.
00:09:29So, you know, she just carried on the trend and came from off the pace.
00:09:33She was much the best.
00:09:34Vava is back here at Keeneland.
00:09:36She sells a little bit later today.
00:09:38She looks none the worse for wear.
00:09:39She looks terrific, as does Ricci, who came back from Dalmar as well to be sold here by Hillandale.
00:09:46All right, we move on now to the turf sprint.
00:09:51A lot of stories in here.
00:09:52First of all, what a day for the ladies.
00:09:541-2 with She's So Spicy, a three-year-old Philly over AG Bullitt, a five-year-old mare.
00:10:00So, Philly's 1-2 against the boys.
00:10:02Also, first-ever Breeders' Cup win for our Gainesway Guest of the Week.
00:10:06Jose D'Angelo.
00:10:07We'll be hearing from him shortly.
00:10:09She's So Spicy.
00:10:10She got the lead, but, boy, they didn't make it easy on her.
00:10:1321-3, 43-4.
00:10:16It didn't matter.
00:10:17She just kept on going and was another win for an up-and-coming trainer who I think is probably going to pile up a bunch of Breeders' Cup winners.
00:10:24She's only 35 years old.
00:10:26Got a long way to go in his career.
00:10:28She was terrific.
00:10:29She's So Spicy.
00:10:31Much, much the best in there.
00:10:33She was actually sold last night.
00:10:35She came on the plane as well, and More Play Racing, Rich Mendez, brought out the partnership of Qatar Racing for $5.2 million last night.
00:10:45She'll get to stay in training, and I'm excited to see what she'll do next year.
00:10:49She's just three years old, and it looks like sky's the limit for her.
00:10:52It really does.
00:10:54I mean, even though she had been dominant in her turf sprints, I just totally underestimated exactly how good She's So Spicy was.
00:11:00I mean, I said famous last words shortly before the start of the race.
00:11:05I couldn't believe that she and A.G. Bullitt were the same price on the board, and then lo and behold, she just, you know, destroys A.G. Bullitt, who ran nicely to finish second.
00:11:16And by the way, it was the first winner ever, amazingly, for any horse that had ever run at Kentucky Downs.
00:11:23It was a Kentucky Downs Xacta, actually, with She's So Spicy and A.T. Bullitt.
00:11:27But Cottom, the personality-filled old man, rallied to finish third despite a slow break from the gate.
00:11:35But she's so spicy.
00:11:37Man, she was really something special.
00:11:39What kind of number did she run, Randy?
00:11:41Do you know?
00:11:42I don't recall exactly, but it was like in the 105.
00:11:47Oh, wow.
00:11:48Okay.
00:11:48Yeah, yeah, 104, 105.
00:11:50It was by about 10 points, a new career high.
00:11:55Wow.
00:11:55All right.
00:11:56We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:11:59I do want to remind you that the TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland, and that is exactly where I am.
00:12:05The Keeneland November sale is about to get underway in just about two hours here, right before we tape this segment.
00:12:11But first, before we talk about Keeneland, let's talk about the championship sale from last week.
00:12:16On Wednesday, a 25% interest in Ben Tornado was offered at Del Mar, going for $1 million to Michael Ivarone, who actually wore a shirt to the sale and the races.
00:12:28Now, Ben Tornado earned a big chunk of that back when the four-year-old won the $2 million Breeders' Cup sprint.
00:12:34Keeneland grads also winning on the big stage included Keeneland January Weenling graduate She's So Spicy in the Turf Sprint, November Weenling graduate Nysos in the Dirt Mile.
00:12:46Boy, he was impressive.
00:12:47And September yearlings Ted Noffey, impressive as well, in the Juvenile and Super Corridora in the Juvenile Phillies.
00:12:54The Keeneland November sale continues through November the 11th and will be followed by the one-day November Horses of Racing Age sale on November the 12th.
00:13:03We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:13:08Keeneland November is where futures take root.
00:13:12And legacies pass from one hand to the next.
00:13:15In the ring, excitement builds.
00:13:18A glance.
00:13:20A nod.
00:13:21A bid.
00:13:22History changes in an instant.
00:13:24And the impact lasts a lifetime.
00:13:28The market is here.
00:13:29The global stage is here.
00:13:32Your moment is here.
00:13:34Keeneland November.
00:13:37As always, the fastest horse of the week brought to you by the Fast Sires at Winstar Farm.
00:13:42The spotlight this week is on Audible, the intermischief stallion who impressively won the 2018 Holy Bull and Florida Derby.
00:13:49Later wound up his career with a good fifth in the Dubai World Cup.
00:13:52He's now a Breeders' Cup winning sire.
00:13:54The Breeders' Cup Philly and Mare Sprint winner Splendora, a daughter of Audible, becoming his first Breeders' Cup and Grade 1 winner.
00:14:01Audible is a top five third crop sire and he will stand next year at Winstar for a fee of only $7,500.
00:14:09Not surprisingly, the fastest horse of the week, classic winner Forever Young, who put up that 1.11 fire speed figure in becoming Japan's first classic winner, Breeders' Cup classic winner, that is.
00:14:22He'll now be appointed for a defense of his Saudi Cup win earlier this year.
00:14:26And he could very well once again face Hong Kong superstar Romantic Warrior.
00:14:31That was quite a race in February earlier between the two.
00:14:35I think the best dirt race run anywhere in the world in 2025, Romantic Warrior, will be an eight-year-old next year.
00:14:41He's currently recuperating from surgery back in May, but he's training very well.
00:14:46He'll run later this month.
00:14:48It is not an end to the career, fortunately, for Forever Young.
00:14:56Welcome in now to Gainesway Guest of the Week.
00:14:59It's none other than Jose D'Angelo, the hottest man at the Breeders' Cup with not just one, but two wins.
00:15:04Not just two wins, but two wins back-to-back.
00:15:07Jose, congratulations.
00:15:08Thanks for joining us on the TDN Writer's Room Podcast as the Gainesway Guest of the Week.
00:15:12A lot of Breeders' Cup stuff to talk about, but first, briefly, could you tell us a little bit about your career?
00:15:18What kind of trainer were you in Venezuela?
00:15:20Why did you come to the United States?
00:15:22And did you ever expect to get off to this fast to start?
00:15:26Thank you, Bill.
00:15:27Very happy to stay here today.
00:15:29You know, I have a successful career in Venezuela.
00:15:33I came from a horseman family and third generation.
00:15:37My grandfather, they found a magazine there.
00:15:41My uncles work on the same side.
00:15:44My father was a trainer in Venezuela, a champion trainer.
00:15:48He won their three leading trainers.
00:15:52He won a lot of great ones over there.
00:15:55He and me, we have the own record.
00:15:59Like, you know, there you can be like Eclipse trainer, like apprentice trainer and champion.
00:16:04So he won that and I won that too.
00:16:07So it's the, we're like the only fire and sun with, with that title.
00:16:13I went over there to the classical Simon Bolivar, like he's like, or Kentucky Derby or, or the Beersfield Classic.
00:16:20Like it's our biggest race.
00:16:22So, you know, like, I, I just love the horses and horse racing.
00:16:27Like, I don't like sports and just horses.
00:16:31Um, my goal was like emulate my father because he's, I am his, his bigger fan.
00:16:38Um, as soon as he retired of the horse racing there in 2007, and I got my title of trainer there on 2012.
00:16:48I won the classical Simon Bolivar on 2014.
00:16:52Um, my leading trainer in 2018.
00:16:56So that's why I decided to move to USA, follow my fire.
00:17:00He moved here, I think in 2015.
00:17:02So move to USA, um, you know, trying to follow my dreams and, um, and go for the big races here.
00:17:13So let's, let's talk about your Breeders' Cup horses here, uh, Jose.
00:17:16First, Ben Tornado.
00:17:18I mean, I went back and looked at, uh, at his workout tab, his career workout tab.
00:17:23And it looks to me, you had him at Santa Anita at one point last year.
00:17:27It looked to me like maybe you were pointing him for the Malibu.
00:17:29And then, and then something happened because he wasn't entered.
00:17:34Uh, what was the timeline with, you know, what happened to him in California and getting
00:17:39him back in time for that one unbelievable prep at Churchill Downs before the Breeders' Cup?
00:17:46You know, Randy, the horse has many stories.
00:17:49Um, I have to, to say thank you to, to his owners and to trust me and, um, and follow my
00:17:56plans because, uh, two important things.
00:17:59The first one was before the last leg of the Staten Series where he lost the, he's undefeated
00:18:06career and in two turns race, the owner came one morning to Ivan and he say, Hey, Jose,
00:18:12the horse can't go long.
00:18:13I was sure not, but I was trying so bad, you know, to, to stretch him.
00:18:17Long, I say, Hey, I don't, I don't know.
00:18:22I don't, I don't know.
00:18:23I say, but if he don't go long, I promise you the horse is going to be on the Breeders'
00:18:28Cup.
00:18:28And he said, you are, you are joking.
00:18:31So, uh, the thing was like the horse, uh, have a hard three year old, two year old and
00:18:40three year old campaign.
00:18:40The horse ran all these races of the Florida Staten Series.
00:18:44Won in open company.
00:18:45The horse went to Saudi and ran third against Forever Young and Bukandamo.
00:18:50Later, we prepped him to the Charleston Ready, Robert Hilton Memorial, 500,000.
00:18:57Gallant Bob, Breeders' Cup.
00:18:59So our plan was going to the Malibu.
00:19:01We chipped the horse there.
00:19:02But after the workout, the, he came back good, but the morning of the race, I saw him
00:19:08little sore and everything came from the hoof.
00:19:11So I scratched the horse this morning and everybody was flying to the race.
00:19:15Uh, and Luis Saz to the Yoki.
00:19:18I scratched the horse.
00:19:19He, he can, he can pass the bet.
00:19:20He, he can, you know, he, he could run, but I, I feel like, like can be expensive.
00:19:26Like, like I can lose the horse on that race.
00:19:28Like probably, you know, this race is going to take more, more from him.
00:19:31So I decided to scratch the horse.
00:19:33Um, after all the gear, I put on the PET scan to see, you know, if he has something, because
00:19:39I want to give a, uh, a break to him.
00:19:42But you know, something, sometimes the horses, the horses have things that you cannot see.
00:19:46Um, I put on the PET scan, Dan's got, like, everything was clear, you know, clean, like
00:19:51no fractures, no chips, nothing, just a little bone bruising.
00:19:55That's normal about all, all his effort.
00:19:57So that's why we stopped the horse.
00:19:59But two months later, when he was on training, he got a splint and we have to stop him again.
00:20:07Um, as you know, like he's a, uh, big horse, like he can, he can get heavy so easy.
00:20:14We, you know, was a long way where I have to put the horse on diet a little bit, you
00:20:18know, change the, yeah, because like so, so heavy.
00:20:23Um, if you see like all, if you want to talk about his work, his workout pattern, I worked
00:20:30on the tapita on the synthetic to pushing a little bit more before sent to Saratoga looking
00:20:35for better, better, uh, weather for him.
00:20:39Okay.
00:20:40Um, you know, the owner just said, yes, I'm, I'm follow my recommendations.
00:20:44Um, we know that, that it's a tough game.
00:20:47Like, you know, like nobody owns the true because our sensitive animals that what you
00:20:51do on one horse probably no word on the other horses.
00:20:54So I told them, we're going to prep the horse for the Louisville society.
00:20:59After that, we go straight to, to, to the Breeders' Cup.
00:21:04And they say, but this, this race is not winning and you're in.
00:21:07I say, yes, you have to pay.
00:21:09But I promise you like the horse is going to need these seven weeks to recovery after
00:21:15the layoff.
00:21:16And I can train him in the way that I want for the, for the Breeders' Cup.
00:21:24But if you see what I did, like I push him to run, um, um, I push him on Saratoga with
00:21:32hard workouts, strong workouts, 40, he worked one day 45 and change, uh, less than a minute
00:21:38when he worked at the five minutes, the, the five four months.
00:21:41But when I work at, when I prep him to the Breeders' Cup, I prep different, just maintenance
00:21:4650, include 50.
00:21:47Just, I push it a little bit 15 days before the race with a company, but naturally, you
00:21:52know, like no, I had never asked him just by himself, whatever he wanted.
00:21:56Um, that, that was the preparation with the horse.
00:21:59And that's why he took so long.
00:22:00He was training for like six months, but just, you know, going one step behind and up, um,
00:22:07that, that's why.
00:22:08But you were very confident in his chances at the Breeders' Cup.
00:22:12Yes, I was very confident on both my horses.
00:22:15Jose, now, uh, he has gone through the sales ring and one partner bought out the other.
00:22:20So Moreplay Racing bought out Qatar Racing for $5.2 million.
00:22:24Uh, what's next for him next year?
00:22:27That's with, for Chiefs of Spicy, uh, with Ben Tornato.
00:22:31Both went to the rim.
00:22:35Uh, Mike, you are on both, uh, 25% of Ben Tornato, um, and Moreplay bought out Qatar on
00:22:42Chiefs of Spicy.
00:22:44So how about the plans for both of them next year?
00:22:46You know, uh, with Ben Tornato, the plan is going, going to Saudi.
00:22:50Okay.
00:22:51To the, to the spring race over there.
00:22:54We know that he likes the, the track.
00:22:57We know that, that is an easy horse to, to travel because he went last year and ran good.
00:23:03Um, with Chiefs of Spicy, uh, we are thinking she has many options.
00:23:09She's invited to Hong Kong.
00:23:10She has Saudi.
00:23:11She has Dubai.
00:23:12Uh, we have many races.
00:23:14It's a feeling that, that you can stretch, that she can go more than 5-4 once she proved
00:23:18that on Kentucky down.
00:23:20So, you know, she arrived today to, to the Barna of Time Meadows.
00:23:24We're going to give to her the time necessary to recovery about this strong race that she
00:23:30ran.
00:23:30And she, and you know, like she's going to tell us where we are going.
00:23:35Now we don't have a plan, you know, uh, plan 100% with her.
00:23:39All right.
00:23:40Well, congratulations on getting, uh, not just two Breeders' Cup wins, but two of the
00:23:44more dominating performances at the Breeders' Cup back to back.
00:23:49I'm curious.
00:23:50When you made the move from Venezuela to the United States, um, how difficult was it to
00:23:56get a, to get a foothold in Florida, like with American owners, as opposed to owners
00:24:02from Venezuela that already knew who you were?
00:24:06You know, uh, that's, that's a good question.
00:24:10When, when I came from Venezuela, like a lot of Venezuelan owners here, a lot of them called
00:24:16me and say, Jose, you have a horse here as soon as you arrive.
00:24:20Um, the true head, like I don't, I don't get so many horses from Venezuelans at my start.
00:24:26My first, just one horse from Venezuela owner and the other two horses was my friends from
00:24:31the university in Venezuela.
00:24:33Every, uh, all of them give to me like 3000 and we claim, uh, two horses.
00:24:38So I started with, with that because nobody, nobody, uh, say that they offer to me that give
00:24:45me horses here.
00:24:46So I have to prove by, by my own, my, my friends from the university and the college, uh, claiming
00:24:52horses, um, you know, start working hard.
00:24:56I got Jesus's team like six months later, the horse put me on the map.
00:24:59I started meeting people, owners and getting the support, uh, that's what my father was
00:25:05here since 2015.
00:25:06And I was following my father, um, and looking, you know, I was looking more into the American
00:25:12racing, you know, the condition book, how he moved the horses to put on the claiming, the
00:25:17starter, the other ones.
00:25:18It's very hard to read the condition book here because you have so many conditions that
00:25:23not exist in my country.
00:25:25So I have to learn everything.
00:25:27Um, um, that's good.
00:25:29You know, like everything worked perfect.
00:25:32Jose, this might be just a start for you.
00:25:35I mean, you've only been in the country for a few years.
00:25:36This was your best year ever to breeders cup wins.
00:25:39Um, you know, where can you take this?
00:25:41Where would you like to be five years from now?
00:25:44You know, uh, always.
00:25:47Like I learned, um, that, that come from the movie of Rufian.
00:25:53I think you remember when, when I think Rufian, like they have to go to ask the Philly and
00:25:58the next day the trainer have to wake up again and go to work.
00:26:02Like nothing happens, you know, like for sure was a, a emotional day and a happy day.
00:26:08But like, I learned like every day you have to work harder, no matter what, no matter what
00:26:12win or lose, just work harder, do your best.
00:26:15And the most important thing is learn.
00:26:17Always, always open to learn because here so many people have more years than you, more
00:26:23experience than you, no matter what, if they are successful or not, or they win more than
00:26:27you or not, you know, every horseman, when I say horseman, a walker, a groom, you have
00:26:33something to learn to, you know, trainers.
00:26:36So that's why I want to learn every day and try to do my best to, to, you know, run every
00:26:43horse at, uh, uh, at his top as, as his, his top level, you know, some trainer have, have
00:26:50a system.
00:26:51I think, I feel like every horse is different.
00:26:54You kind of have a system.
00:26:54You have to adapt to the horse.
00:26:56No, the horse adapts to you.
00:26:57And that's what I'm trying to do.
00:26:59All right.
00:26:59So Ben Tornado is owned by Leon King stable and more, and, um, she's so spicy was owned
00:27:05by more play in Qatar racing.
00:27:07More plays in American ownership group, correct?
00:27:09Yes, they are, they are Latins, but they are Americans.
00:27:13Yes.
00:27:13Okay.
00:27:13How, how difficult is it for a trainer like yourself to come from Venezuela with all the
00:27:20success you had in Venezuela and, and get the endorsement of American top ranked American
00:27:28owners?
00:27:28Is that a, is that a big challenge?
00:27:30You speak very good English, so there's not a language barrier there.
00:27:35No, but you know, like I learned English and that's what we now, we have now Chad
00:27:39GPT, but, uh, you know, like, uh, just meeting the people, you know, uh, showing up, going
00:27:46to a play to Saratoga, Kingland, uh, was hard because no, nobody know me here.
00:27:53At least in Venezuela, I came from a family, uh, related with horses and everything was easier,
00:27:59but, you know, I have to start from zero.
00:28:01Um, I promise you I never was like afraid or, or, you know, or shy.
00:28:07I, I always, you know, my head up, um, and try to do my best and I'm getting, uh, the
00:28:14best owners of the country now giving to me opportunities to train horses for them.
00:28:19I'm so happy when enter a horse, um, my friends see like these, these big owners and they
00:28:24call me, how'd you get there?
00:28:27Winning two breeders cup races.
00:28:28We'll do it too.
00:28:29That's, that's great.
00:28:31I would say one of the biggest upsets of the breeders cup was that Mike Ivarone actually
00:28:35showed up in the winner's circle with a shirt on.
00:28:37How did you talk them into dressing for him relatively conservatively?
00:28:44Yeah.
00:28:45Mike, he, he showed interest on the horse, like, uh, since two months ago.
00:28:51Um, when, when he bought the horse, I was surprised because, you know, like I know he
00:28:55liked the horse, but not so much.
00:28:57And what's funny last he, he lives here in Palmeiras and he lives close to Palmeiras because
00:29:03like last year, uh, the championship meet, I, I met him at the Wawa, the gas station at
00:29:10Home Depot at first watch.
00:29:12So say, are you following me?
00:29:13No, you are following me.
00:29:15We're going to the same places.
00:29:16We have to have a horse to wear for sure.
00:29:19And we have a breeders cup winner now.
00:29:22Very good.
00:29:22Jose, again, congratulations so much on such a big day.
00:29:26Look forward to seeing what she's so spicy and Ben Arnato do next year.
00:29:29Thank you for being our Gainesway guest of the week on the TDN writers room podcast.
00:29:33Always hope to come with more frequency here.
00:29:37Way to go.
00:29:38Way to go.
00:29:38Yes.
00:29:40Guest of the week, Jose D'Angelo brought to you by Gainesway home of the legendary Tappet,
00:29:44the sire of runaway distaff winner, Scylla.
00:29:47That win was Tappet's eighth Breeders' Cup victory as a sire, his third grade one score
00:29:52this year.
00:29:52The all time Breeders' Cup sire standings now go like this into Mischief and Dabawi with
00:29:59nine wins each.
00:30:00They also had winners last weekend, followed by Tappet, Curlin, and More Than Ready with
00:30:05eight apiece.
00:30:06So Tappet is still delivering now with 107 graded winners, 171 black type winners, and seven
00:30:12North American champions that could become eight pending Scylla's Eclipse Award votes.
00:30:18Tappet will stand for $185,000 at Gainesway in 2026.
00:30:23Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
00:30:26Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
00:30:38well we start segment three of our conversation with the breeders cup sprint
00:31:03one by ben tornado win number two two in a row jose d'angelo and have to wait very long to get his
00:31:10second win two races in a row um this was a really good horse we knew that i mean think every randy i
00:31:17know you probably thought this was the best bet of the day and uh the horse i mean d'angelo did a
00:31:23great job last year the horse was second in the breeders cup at 28 to one this time you get eight
00:31:28to five so those who missed out last year were probably licking their chops a little bit wondering
00:31:33why they couldn't have got the money last year but um this horse was just uh really really sharp
00:31:39another good training job by d'angelo i thought copian i guess i could say she was a little bit
00:31:44disappointing but to run her at six four longs against males uh was just a little bit too much
00:31:49to ask and it's interesting what would their their decision have been if they knew tamra wasn't going
00:31:54to run i think they probably would have run her in the philly mare sprint but that's all um hypothetical
00:31:59at this point second race off a layoff jose had this horse ready to go ben tornado a breeders cup
00:32:05sprint winner yeah i didn't know how impressive was he you know on friday uh coolmore had uh the
00:32:11phillies true love and precise and they wanted to separate them so they sprinted true love even though
00:32:17she'd you know five furlongs looked like it might be too short for her so they wouldn't run her
00:32:21against precise going a mile and then precise was scratched and there they were wishing that they
00:32:26had run true love going longer and now the same thing happens i think in a different fashion with
00:32:32copian and tamra you know tamra scratched was scratched out of the philly mare sprint and they
00:32:38probably were left wishing that copian had run there because she probably would have won it i think
00:32:42uh but ben tornado i should have just put our whole hundred dollar bankroll and just dumped it all
00:32:46on ben tornado i mean uh it was a 105 buyer by the way for she's so spicy and a 110 career high
00:32:54winning buyer speed figure for ben tornado who just uh was much much the best handsome like his trainer
00:33:02uh he looked amazing all week long coming into it a son of valiant minister who broke his maiden
00:33:10in one start for hall of fame of bob baffert he stands down there in florida for bioma corp um
00:33:18he's a homebred for them he stands for four thousand dollars they paid 170 000 for him so he's a good
00:33:25looking son a valiant minister who will throw a a good looking horse at you but this by far
00:33:30is the best horse he's ever thrown and i'm excited all right so we move on now to the breeders cup this
00:33:38this is one of those races i know the horse paid only 17 20 trained by bill mott and everything but
00:33:44i'm still kind of scratching my head how scilla won this race uh first of all one thing that had
00:33:49something to do with it is seismic beauty when she didn't break and didn't get to the lead it was all
00:33:54over for her i mean she finished in another area code when they crossed the wire so that changed the
00:33:59complexion of the race a little bit but um randy this horse had never run better than a 97 buyer
00:34:05gets a 103 so improved six buyer points um was 0 for 5 on the year but uh you know congratulations
00:34:12to bill mott he got her to run the race of her life on the most important race of her life yeah you
00:34:18know what's kind of odd about in this situation silla is bred to be a two-turn horse she's a daughter
00:34:22of tappet out of clothes hatches and and mott uh you know there's nobody better at figuring all this
00:34:28out but mott had been sprinting her uh going seven furlongs and she's been running okay she hadn't been
00:34:34running great but she'd been running okay against tough competition he looked at the landscape for
00:34:38the breeders cup he saw how tough the fillion mare sprint looked like it was going to be
00:34:43with copion and hope road and tamara and he decided you know the distaff field maybe looks a little bit
00:34:50vulnerable so i'm going to try her around two turns so he ran her in the spinster at keeneland at a mile
00:34:55and an eight i thought she was set up to be the pace setter that day but she stumbled leaving the gate
00:35:01and then they had to go to plan b and sit her a little bit off the pace and she ran okay she didn't
00:35:07run that great so this time she broke very well from the inside uh it's the way the racetrack was
00:35:14playing also helped her chances uh but look even if you know uh even if seismic beauty had broken well
00:35:23from the starting gate look silo went 22.27 45.75 and 110 flat i mean how fast was seismic beauty
00:35:32going to have to go to clear silo he had a clear early lead it wasn't going to happen seismic beauty
00:35:37had made some very comfortable early leads in her previous two races she was never going to get that
00:35:43in this breeders cup so even though she would have run better with a better start i don't think she had
00:35:47any chance given the way silo ran and how fast she ran the early fractions now the interesting part
00:35:53to me i think it's going to be pretty clear cut i mean we know ted noff is going to be champion
00:35:58two-year-old super corridor is probably going to be almost certainly champion two-year-old philly
00:36:03i mean who else would it be a ben tornado is a lock to be champion sprinter
00:36:07sila champion older female probably so i mean what what are the alternatives there
00:36:14well randy off one win one win on the year well i mean she'd been running well in other races and
00:36:21she wins the breeders cup this staff i mean who would you put over over sila right now i mean
00:36:28it was horse of the year last year you remember her you would put really okay yes i wouldn't okay
00:36:38she'll be in the top three that's for sure yeah but yeah it'll be very very interesting listen it was
00:36:44seismic beauties races i didn't like it from the get-go she stumbled leaving there and it looked
00:36:51like it really pinched her she had a bad stumble but regardless of the stumble she was never getting
00:36:57in front of sila sila's headstrong she was ready to roll that work 46 and 3 when neil pozanski came
00:37:04back off working her that fast he couldn't believe she'd gone that fast she took to that track like a
00:37:10duck to water bill said all along she's headstrong you can't get in her way when she broke like that
00:37:15they just let her roll it was a heads up ride by alvarado who's not scared to put his neck on the
00:37:22line when things go like that he wasn't worried he was going too fast he just let her do her own
00:37:27thing and rattle along there i don't care who else was in the race there was nobody beating sila on that
00:37:33day and i think it was the racing god spoke they wanted bill mart to win a race he took two horses
00:37:39so then he was down to one and they're like oh let's just give him the breeders cup just done
00:37:44we like bill mart so there you have it uh you know bill i just pulled up the past performances for
00:37:49torpedo anna and you're you're probably right i mean she wins she wins the apple blossom grade one
00:37:56she wins the personal ensign grade one she also had grade two wins in the azari and the fleur-de-lis
00:38:02so torpedo anna yeah you know i was kind of thinking about her spinster and the fact that she didn't run in
00:38:08the breeders cup but given the entire body of work you know i could totally see where the voters would
00:38:13go for torpedo anna over sila yeah if you want to bet a bottle of wine on that no no no no no no
00:38:21okay no no no all right so we move now to the breeders cup turf the breeders cup has provide us
00:38:27with lots of strange stories over the years but i don't know if it gets more stranger than this a
00:38:33jumper ethical diamond wins the breeders cup turf now not purely a jumper the horse had had 14 career
00:38:41starts coming into this but seven of them had been over jumps and uh zoe uh first win in the um
00:38:47in the breeders cup for jockey young jockey jillian mcgonigle but i'll start with you here because
00:38:52i'm not not not following european racing and particularly not following european jump racing
00:38:58tell us a willie mullins story the training winning trainer willie is a god he is an absolute
00:39:05genius 69 years old he's conquered everything there is to conquer in ireland he's been champion
00:39:11trainer i don't know how many times so then the last few years he's like why didn't i see if i can
00:39:16conquer england as well no problem willie mullins comes over and he wins everything in england's been
00:39:22champion trainer in england so it was his assistant that said well you know they were supposed to take
00:39:28this horse i believe to the melbourne cup but he's got a couple of screws in him and the melbourne cup
00:39:34if you thought dama is strict it's even stricter in australia and they're like no no no you're not
00:39:39coming over here so the assistant's like well how about we go to the breeders cup we run fifth
00:39:44you know we'll make 150 grand what's wrong with that it's like winning a high class race over there
00:39:49so they put him on the plane just hoping to get a check i mean at the very best run fifth they were
00:39:55probably thinking eight or ninth and he finished down the lane i don't know what the final quarter
00:40:02he went in or maybe they were just getting slower but oh my goodness you want to talk about a race
00:40:08that i don't think i've ever seen and you've got rebels romance in there you've got mini hawk
00:40:13they all ran their races no massive excuses for them but ethical diamond with dylan mcmonegal
00:40:18who's champion jockey over there in ireland on the flat not over jumps brilliant absolutely brilliant
00:40:25and willie i'm sure he had a good few bourbons i think he was drinking one at the presser he got on
00:40:30the plane and got on the plane right to australia had a few more over there he's a guy that you
00:40:37wouldn't want to sit at a table and try and go toe to toe with him having a drink or two we'll just
00:40:42leave it at that but terrific trainer good guy superb horseman and the family as well the grandmother
00:40:49um wanting to start a syndicate for her grandchildren so they just don't go to weddings
00:40:54and funerals and see each other the whole story is just made for a movie right randy oh man i mean
00:41:01look willie mullins is to jump racing over there what aiden o'brien is to irish thoroughbred racing i
00:41:08mean he is that dominant and he is that highly regarded but even so i mean when he sends ethical
00:41:15diamond to the breeders cup turf the europeans were primarily shocked that he was only 27 to 1
00:41:22they they thought that he had about a 100 to 1 chance to outrun both minnehawk and rebels romance and
00:41:30you know what willie mullins did too i mean i i read this quote on nbc i'll read it again i you know
00:41:37he said this is pre-race quote from willie mullins uh he said he's in great shape but realistically we
00:41:43don't think we can finish in the first four but if we can get fifth sixth or seventh that would be
00:41:50great and here he comes just absolutely flying on the outside to just run by rebels romance like he
00:41:57was standing still and that was really remarkable isn't isn't it amazing though how different it is for
00:42:04europeans coming over here could you imagine bob baffert saying let's go to england and run in
00:42:11the epsom derby and if we come fifth sixth or seventh it would be amazing like they just think
00:42:18of it differently i don't know if it's because the prize money is perhaps a little better over here
00:42:22but no one in their right mind in america would put a horse on the plane hoping to come fifth sixth
00:42:28or seventh in a big race in europe to answer your questions zoe i'm looking at the detailed chart right
00:42:36now okay and the final quarter mile for ethical diamond was 22.87 oh my goodness at the end of a at
00:42:47the end of a mile and a half and a reasonably paced mile and a half it's not like they went around
00:42:52there in 50 or 51 and then all came flying and he was doing it easy easy going by a two-time breeders
00:42:59cup winner in rebels romance i thought mini hawk probably is tailed off towards the end of the year
00:43:05because she just to me seemed just a tad flat not quite that arc form that she had but gosh what a
00:43:12great race and maybe as a gelding we'll see rebels romance again next year if all if all goes well
00:43:17and he'll get another chance to win his third breeders cup race you know what we'll see we'll
00:43:22see 10 horses from willie willie mullins over here for breeders cup this guy's a gelding he's only five
00:43:28that's a good point so let's go now to the breeders cup classic lots of storylines here
00:43:36i want to go off a little bit of a on a tangent um i wrote a column for the thoroughbred daily news
00:43:41saying that i thought contrary thinking cost fierceness the race now a couple things that
00:43:47happened before the race i mean excuse me during the running of the race um it was the fact that
00:43:53he got shuffled back early he got blocked the great ride by the japanese rider russi sayaki i guess
00:44:00that's probably not anywhere close to how you pronounce it but i tried my best but i said
00:44:04hypothetically if the rabbit weren't in the race watch how fierceness gets out of the gate here
00:44:11five jumps into the race he's a length in front i think he would have been loose on the lead they
00:44:15never would have caught him so you know i totally disagree with mike rapoli saying they shouldn't
00:44:20allow that horse to run that's just part of the game but i think it did um have an outcome on the
00:44:26race but uh maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm giving fierceness too much credit because forever young uh
00:44:31randy ran a hell of a race look i i don't disagree with you i you know uh i i read a quote somewhere
00:44:39uh where i think johnny velasquez said that that he was disadvantaged because the rabbit stopped in
00:44:46front of him i don't really agree with that because he had forever he had fierceness already sort of
00:44:51slid into the two hole the two path and he and he nicely went around uh contrary thinking when the
00:44:57rabbit stopped to a walk but just given the fact that without contrary thinking in the race
00:45:05fierceness probably makes the lead in a slightly slower pace than the race went uh you would have
00:45:12had a match race you would have had fierceness on the lead in the rail and sierra leone excuse me and
00:45:17forever young lapped right outside of him and it would have been race on at that point uh to see which
00:45:23one finished the best uh but look forever young and ted noffy were the only two winners on breeders cup
00:45:31weekend on dirt that didn't run on the rail either some or all of their races so that i think uh
00:45:42leads me to believe that forever young was probably the best horse i think fierceness might have been
00:45:47maybe the second best horse but uh look forever young i mean all credit to him he was tough as nails
00:45:54great ride i agree with you by sakai uh i didn't say this on the nbc telecast and i should have but i
00:46:00thought maybe it was a little too inside baseball uh forever young now becomes the richest horse
00:46:08to ever race in the united states ones of all the horses that made at least one start in the united
00:46:16states he vaults to number one with earnings career earnings of 19 million 358 thousand five hundred
00:46:23ninety dollars there's a common theme who should put to sorrow is number two arrow gate thunder snow
00:46:29miss miss riff and gun runner you know nowadays you can't make that list unless you have some success
00:46:36in either the saudi cup or the dubai world cup and uh forever young of course won the saudi cup was
00:46:43third in the dubai world cup and now he has a classic win on top of that and he's not finished yet
00:46:48well deserved by forever young terrific ride by his jockey i honestly think it was the jockey that
00:46:55beat fierceness more than the rabbit to be perfectly honest so forever young well deserved how about the
00:47:01top three finishes from last year come back and run one two three as well and how good did sierra leone
00:47:07run yes i mean he ran super and how about these two horses they're related their dams are both sisters
00:47:13and they run one two once more it's been a terrific rivalry for both of them chaban was very pleased
00:47:20with sierra leone's effort pratt thought he was going to get there all the way to the wire all the way to
00:47:26the wire he thought he was gonna just get there just in time and he just couldn't i even on the gallop
00:47:33out forever young galloped out he's gonna stay in training i'm so excited yoshito yohagi is a poster boy
00:47:40for japanese racing he's a great guy he's he's lots of fun to talk to him and his interpreter
00:47:46i don't know if katie can find the clip of him dancing but i did see on x a clip of him dancing
00:47:54he kind of looked like me dancing no rhythm whatsoever and he was having a good time he was
00:48:00pretty hungover on sunday morning but he was still there leading his horse out with the flowers on him
00:48:07and showing him off for everyone just a big round of applause for yoshito yohagi who's really
00:48:13shown the way for the japanese horses that come over they finally won the big one they don't have
00:48:17to win everything thank goodness but they got the classic and it's well deserved for bringing this horse
00:48:23what a horse he is he's aptly he's aptly named and the sire real steel i mean that's him to travel
00:48:30all those miles and just keep coming back and to finally finally get his big win in the classic was
00:48:36yeah i was i was talking to an owner at the airport on sunday morning and he happened to be
00:48:42hanging out uh just by coincidence with the entire forever young entourage after the breeders cup at a
00:48:50mexican restaurant yes you know you would think they would find sushi somewhere or you know dintai
00:48:56feng dumplings i mean there there are plenty of options but they were at a mexican restaurant
00:49:00and they were cheering just as raucously for the dodgers in game seven because of the japanese
00:49:06players on the dodgers team as they were forever young in the breeders cup classic so quite the daily
00:49:12double for the forever young entourage on saturday didn't didn't yoshito yohagi kind of say he was glad
00:49:19that dodgers won but kind of wish they didn't because it took some of the shine yes forever
00:49:24quite rightly so yeah i love his nickname too now that he's calling himself mr delmar
00:49:29great great nickname yeah yeah um you know well-deserved win for forever young now are we all
00:49:37in agreement though that sovereignty is still horse of the year i say yes sovereignty so yeah yeah yeah
00:49:43who's champion older male that is a very difficult one i'd have to dig a little bit deeper that's one
00:49:50i can't answer off the top of my head it's got to be fierceness or sierra leone right yeah it's got
00:49:55to be one of those two yeah well some people vote for forever young for champion older male yeah maybe
00:50:01off that uh rule thing that i hate the one time in the u.s back here um don't get me started on that
00:50:07they need a rule you have to run twice at least twice in the u.s to be eligible for an eclipse award
00:50:13canada has a rule no reason why we can't have a rule because i think randy agrees to me it kind of
00:50:19my head wants to explode sometimes when when people vote for not that forever young isn't a
00:50:24great horse but don't get me wrong but he should not be uh winning an eclipse award off one race i
00:50:29think it's probably going to go to fierceness over sierra leone i hate to say it honestly his
00:50:35resume is just a teeny bit better we'll see all right well we got a couple more races to wrap up
00:50:41we'll be right back after this message from the phba the td and riders room sponsored by the
00:50:47pennsylvania horse breeders association the phba our focus is always on thoroughbred racing and
00:50:53breeding but the phba also strives to help secure second careers for its equine athletes as part of
00:51:00that effort the phba provides eighty five hundred dollars to the annual retired race source projects
00:51:06thoroughbred makeover five thousand dollars of which is awarded to the top finishing pennsylvania
00:51:12breads from the preliminary round of competition this year 15 pa breads competed in the makeover miss
00:51:18pretender and rachel mcmahon took home the special award after finishing fourth in the show hunter
00:51:24preliminaries and then going on to make saturday's finale where they claim second place fellow pennsylvania
00:51:30bread ms k's cowgirl finished fourth and two other pa breads to mention flex warrior second in field
00:51:37hunters and my brown eyed girl was fifth in barrel racing to learn more about the phba go to pa bread
00:51:44dot com or call brian san fratello at 610-444-1050 the pennsylvania breeding program is the best program
00:51:53in the country the stallion awards the owner bonuses also the restrictive races and the stakes races for
00:52:00pennsylvania breads this year eight breeders are on track to earn over two hundred thousand dollars
00:52:06in breeders in breeders awards and two could hit the million dollar mark we have the best program
00:52:13in the country take advantage of the fantastic program that we have learn more at pa bread dot com
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00:52:39everything you need to be informed be smart bet smart with first tv
00:52:47it is time for the first tv work of the week the work of the week is of course brought to you by
00:52:55first tv now every good horse in the country was running last weekend at delmar or somewhere across
00:53:01the globe so it's kind of hard to find a name horse but we dug deep or sue finley dug deep to find one
00:53:08who may be an up and come on let's take a look at sunner a wire to wire three and a half length
00:53:14winner of her debut on october the 12th at goldstream she worked a half mile at palm meadows in 50.50 on
00:53:21sunday for her owner breeder lev miller and trainer ken sweezy best of luck to the connections
00:53:27in her very next start breeders cup mile marked a wonderful win by notable speech
00:53:33off a win in the woodbine mile charlie appleby and could often got their
00:53:37win you know they weren't going to come away from the breeders cup completely empty-handed
00:53:41um this and again jerry bailey talks about this so much with you randy on the show about how
00:53:46this is how you win turf races you save every inch of ground then you make your move in the
00:53:51stretch william buick rode the perfect race on this horse absolutely perfect race never got off
00:53:57the rail for one second and the turn of foot this horse had in the stretch was absolutely explosive
00:54:03so uh well done by notable speech and now see he should be eligible for an eclipse award because
00:54:09he ran in the woodbine mile so he has had two starts in north america
00:54:15i'll come say hi to you in a minute zoe's busy so i'll jump in here
00:54:20how many times have we seen william buick and ryan moore do this exact thing you know in american
00:54:27horse racing over here in the breeders cup and in some other races right when they're on the best horses
00:54:31save ground they always seem to find a path through and of course the horses that they're riding
00:54:37european turf horses have such quick turn of foot and quick acceleration that it makes it easier to
00:54:43hit those holes when one develops and then boom they're through it and they're gone and that's
00:54:48exactly what we saw with notable speech who right now you know who would be the champion turf male
00:54:56in the united states typically you would look at the breeders cup turf or things like that but
00:55:01given the fact that he has run twice in north america bill uh i would think that notable speech might
00:55:07have a leg up on that eclipse award i would think so yes yeah do you think charlie appleby is going
00:55:13to ask for the woodbine mile to be held on in a turf course next year after they fix that turf course
00:55:19up there because that was an ideal prep for him it got him used to the sharper turns and he just
00:55:24accelerated like a true pro all right we move now to the dirt mile well first before we get that uh
00:55:31let's talk a little bit about frankie to tory uh he rode our gene in this race to a sixth place finish
00:55:36he was shut out over the breeders cup but now his retirement from u.s racing is now complete though
00:55:43i saw someone had a note that he has a mount next week at churchill downs so uh i don't know about that
00:55:48but he's going to ride a little bit next year in um south america me saying now which will be the eighth
00:55:55time he's retired that his last mount will be in a race called the el derby in february uh in chile
00:56:02but we certainly enjoyed having him here he's a great rider and he makes things fun too i mean with
00:56:08his personality and the flying dismount so it's great to have frankie to tory in the uh us for a couple
00:56:13years uh after he finally does retire for good he's going to go to work for ammo racing uh the outfit
00:56:19that spent all that money on um the the dam of ted noffy uh and is really making headway into racing
00:56:26but uh frankie uh thanks for giving us us racing fans a couple years of something really special to
00:56:31get into zoe yeah i mean he's he's been nothing but brilliant and it's kind of it's it's not so it is a
00:56:40little bit sad that there's been a little bit of backlash on social media about it purely for the fact
00:56:45he had his farewell tour in england and didn't really retire and then he came over here and
00:56:50he's been backwards and forwards and retiring but people tend to forget that he's basically the best
00:56:55jockey the sport has ever seen and for my mom to know who a jockey is in england that just shows you
00:57:01how good frankie to tory is i'll never forget the day she called me she's like zoe zoe do you know this
00:57:07cute little de tory fellow i'm like well yeah i know who he is he just won seven races at royal
00:57:12alaska and he's just so darling can't you marry him he's amazing like for my mom to have even
00:57:19heard of a jockey is one thing so i mean he's just done wonders for the sport and i wish him the best
00:57:24of luck you know and he still looks as good on a horse in action in his 50s as he did when he was
00:57:31younger i think his decision to retire was made easier uh and he said he wasn't as sad as he expected
00:57:38to be but i think it was made easier by the fact that for whatever reason his business this year in
00:57:43the united states really tailed off despite the fact that ron anderson the best agent in the business
00:57:49was booking mounts for him not nearly the same success not nearly as sought after at the upper
00:57:54levels as he was in 2024 so i think that made it a little easier for him to say you know i'm going to
00:57:59bow out i've got this offer from kia and ammo racing it's the perfect time and congratulations on an
00:58:05unbelievable career all right we move along now to the dirt mile once again one of the big stories
00:58:12here were the scratches mystic dan and white abario came out of there mystic dan earlier in the week
00:58:18white abario as the horse was on the track and i talked to uh the owner afterwards and he says he's
00:58:24just baffled uh that the horse was absolutely fine so we haven't really got much of an explanation
00:58:29about what happened to him this was probably the most exciting race of the breeders cup especially for
00:58:34zoe who hit the exact end here but uh what a show put on by the two baffert horses nisos and citizen
00:58:40bull they crossed the wire this was one too close to call it was a bob of the head nisos got the job
00:58:45done uh only paid 340 i know he was um big chalk but i think this was a great training job by baffert
00:58:52this horse has been in and out in and out has been sidelined here and there and again he's a type
00:58:58of trainer that can get a horse to run their very best on the biggest day and he did it with two
00:59:03horses with citizen bull as well um we believe nice house is coming back next year don't we zoe
00:59:09i'm not sure i honestly i couldn't tell you i think yes he is and and bob wants to target the breeders
00:59:15cup classic okay yeah with nice citizen bull is not a terrific ride uh by both jocks on both horses
00:59:24citizen bull obviously aided by perhaps an inside bias on that track there because those horses weren't
00:59:30coming back i thought nisos was supposed to go by him any second and he just couldn't get by him
00:59:36boy i bet bob's glad he opted to run in the dirt mile this is why you don't second guess the hall of
00:59:41famer because originally he was supposed to run in the classic and he's like i don't think he's ready
00:59:47for that i'm just gonna back him up to the mile and he wouldn't have cared who won to be perfectly
00:59:53honest he was sitting with both owners he didn't know which way to look but very very good indeed
00:59:58straight exacta over those two and it was good to see citizen bull go out with such a big race as
01:00:04well agree all right go ahead randy no no agreed on everything's always good right we move on to the
01:00:10last race of the breeders cup card that was the philly and mayor turf peter brant won it so horse must
01:00:16have been trained by chad brown right no no not this one a french uh based horse by the name of gazora
01:00:22trained by the the brilliant french trainer francis henry graffard i i know sue finley will get mad at
01:00:29me for obviously butchering that um but uh she feels pretty ran really well as as well to finish
01:00:35second this is another one of these eclipse debates i think she feels pretty will likely get the eclipse
01:00:41award but a lot of people will vote for gazora based on the one race i don't need to say it again i
01:00:46don't like that line of thinking but uh congratulations to peter brant and uh he's got a good philly on his
01:00:52hands randy look to me she feels pretty ought to be a lock for champion uh older females i mean she
01:00:57didn't quite see out the mile in three eights or maybe she did maybe gazora was just a better horse
01:01:03and uh and ran her down because she feels pretty you know kicked um kicked pretty nicely um gazora so um
01:01:13francis henry graffard uh is a real up-and-coming trainer right now he may eventually join the ranks in
01:01:20the breeders cup of uh of uh aiden o'brien and charlie appleby he broke andre fobbs record this
01:01:27year for most group stakes wins by a french base trainer he won the arc so i mean he had an
01:01:33unbelievable year and he really really likes the breeders cup so i think we certainly haven't seen
01:01:39the the last of graffard the other thing i would mention is a cinderella's dream was the beaten
01:01:45favorite you know all we heard all week from charlie appleby and from others is about how
01:01:51cinderella's dream was better than diamond rain going into the philly mare turf at del mar because
01:01:58cinderella's dream is this you know small nifty philly that can handle the tight turns and diamond
01:02:04rain is this hulking 1250 pound beast who is going to struggle going around those what they call hairpin
01:02:11turns and lo and behold it was diamond rain uh who left cinderella's dream behind in the final quarter
01:02:18mile uh to get third but gazzara deserving winner yeah a well-deserved winner and graffard is a
01:02:25terrific trainer we will see more of him he had a lot of fun at del mar his whole team had a lot of
01:02:31fun there and we know peter brandt loves to win breeders cups as well so you know while chad brown
01:02:37got blanked this breeders cup peter brandt did not and she was much much the best in there can i i'm
01:02:44going to go off script here for just a second and and touch on one other topic that has to do with
01:02:51the breeders cup and has to do with these last couple of races we're talking about uh the breeders
01:02:57cup challenge series is is really making an emphasis on international participation and they're giving
01:03:06win and you're in births to south american racehorses who are proving to be completely overmatched
01:03:15when they come over to the breeders cup this year it was sarawak rim in the distaff who ran okay she
01:03:21ran seventh out of 12 beating 15 links one stripe was from south africa 13th out of 13 grand oriente from
01:03:30chile 11th out of 13 touch of destiny in the dirt mile eighth of eight beaten 40 lengths and in the
01:03:37philly and mayor turf la quica from peru was eased and finished 13th out of 13 now conceivably they're
01:03:44knocking some horses out of breeders cup races that are much more deserving and have a much better chance
01:03:51to win so i think the breeders cup needs to tweak some of this you know maybe give conditional
01:03:57breeders cup challenge when you're in births to south american horses provided they come over
01:04:04to the united states and finish one two three in a graded stakes race prior to the breeders cup pay
01:04:10their way over here you know give them a chance to prove themselves against our graded stakes horses
01:04:16before they get a free birth into the breeders cup but right now i mean they have just almost every
01:04:22time last year year before just being woefully overmatched when they run in the breeders cup
01:04:28good point randy excellent uh i have to give that some more thought but i certainly off the top of
01:04:32my head agree with you now last week we had some fun and thanks to the tdn they let us make bets on
01:04:39the breeders cup with a bankroll everybody always says it's mythical i even thought it was going to be
01:04:43mythical nope you guys are the best we're going to give you real cold hard cash how did it come out
01:04:49bill the only thing mythical in this podcast are bottles of wine that i win from randy
01:04:57so far it's mythical the only mythical thing randy can buy you at least maybe two bottles of nice
01:05:03wine because he returned eighty one dollars now that's with a hundred dollar bankroll zoe you had
01:05:09that uh good exacta with nysos over citizen bull returned 154 and i won it all because i had the exacta
01:05:18on the first day of ted noffy over uh mr ap which uh paid i think 37 or so i returned 224 and 40 cents
01:05:29zoe and randy remember to send me your addresses or your zell information or something because the
01:05:33check is in the mail i'll take care of you guys because i was the one that actually put the bets in
01:05:39now i do need to explain how i came up with my winning wager if you remember uh on last week's show
01:05:45my bet involved ted noffy and blackout time so i did not have mr ap when blackout time was scratched
01:05:52i called an audible and i put a wheel i wheeled ted noffy on top actually threw out brand as a wise
01:05:58guy move think of that exact it's going to pay what five six dollars so i'm going to try to hit
01:06:03something a little bit more substantial than that by the way i'm not sending you my zell information
01:06:07because i i might have got eighty dollars but i bet a hundred so i lost 20 i can't i can't in good
01:06:14conscious except eighty dollars on a on a loss okay well that's nice of you donate it to a charity or
01:06:20something like that so anyways um before we wrap up today's show we want to let you know things after
01:06:25the breeders cup get a little quiet we've got the holidays coming up so we are getting ready to put
01:06:29together a show made up of viewers questions and what you do send your questions in and either zoe
01:06:37randy and myself or all three of us will answer them and send your questions to sue finley f-i-n-l-e-y
01:06:44the last name at the tdn.com once again send your questions to sue finley at the tdn.com and we
01:06:52will answer those questions on an upcoming show and congratulations to our sponsor west point thoroughbreds
01:06:59which is celebrating its juvenile phillies victory with super corredora she becomes the
01:07:04third breeders cup winner for west point joining flight line and liam's map and the first to score
01:07:09in west points familiar gold and black silks worn by hector berrios the daughter of gun runner
01:07:14was selected the 2024 keeneland september yearling sale by trainer john sadler and bloodstock advisor
01:07:20david ingordo who also picked out flight line for more information on becoming a west point partner
01:07:25check out www westpointtb.com all the thrills
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01:08:04that's a wrap on this week's show i want to thank our gainsway guest of the week jose
01:08:08de angelo my partners randy moss and zoe cabman and our producers and directors
01:08:13zoe with a great house are you um getting a little uh tipsy drinking that thing i know i'm
01:08:18gonna go look at some more mares and wheelings right now after this hot toddy it's fabulous i
01:08:23think it takes a lot more than one hot toddy to get zoe uh i don't know this is pretty strong
01:08:28it's pretty strong randy all right once again on your head
01:08:35i need a lot more than that uh producers and directors sue finley katie petruniak anthony
01:08:39larocca and alia larocca hope everybody enjoyed the breeders cup we'll be back soon
01:08:44thanks again for watching the tdn writers room podcast presented by keema
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