- 3 months ago
John and Laura-Lynn discuss a series of historical events connecting figures in the Latter Rain movement, William Branham’s ministry, and a network of personalities whose activities blurred the line between religion and entertainment. John begins by outlining shocking newspaper findings linking Laura-Lynn’s former church leaders to Branham’s circle, showing how terminology like “message of the hour” signaled deeper involvement. He recounts the infamous “halo photograph” incident, revealing that what was promoted as a supernatural sign was likely a stage-light effect, and that the photographers had questionable backgrounds. This segues into the strange and troubling case of Leslie Douglas Ashley, a young person tied to the photograph who later faced a sensational trial, incarceration, and became central to a push for clemency by Branham and others.
They examine how prominent ministers like John Osteen and others became entangled in the situation, despite the reputational risk. Laura-Lynn reflects on modern parallels in religious movements where spectacle and personality overshadow truth and discernment. John ties the story into broader patterns in the Pentecostal and charismatic world, including connections to today’s NAR figures. Together, they explore the moral compromises leaders made to protect their ministries and how those choices have shaped the trajectory of these movements, highlighting the need for greater transparency, accountability, and courage to speak against wrongdoing.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Laura-Lynn’s awakening and Branhamite background
03:41 Analogy of good men misled by a con artist
05:23 Early sensationalism: levitating boy and healing acts
07:00 Rise of “Message of the Hour” and Reg Lazelle’s role
08:19 Raymond Hora and connections to Glad Tidings Tabernacle
09:00 The 1950 “halo” photograph at Sam Houston Coliseum
11:02 Photographers, businessmen, and the staged debate
15:04 Dispute over healing and accusations of exploitation
16:22 Violent confrontation at the debate
16:43 Book Dangerous Games and shocking backstory
18:26 Expansion of the halo story into rapture theology
18:57 Transition to the Arizona “mystery cloud” event
20:05 Ashley’s trial, crime, and death row case
21:11 Evangelical leaders rally to support Ashley
22:47 Forced confessions and claims of being Elijah
24:04 Ministers begin questioning Branham’s credibility
27:04 Ashley’s escape, FBI pursuit, and circus disguise
29:12 John Osteen’s involvement and ministry roots
31:11 Why leaders risked career suicide to defend Branham
33:04 Cover-ups around the halo photograph
36:02 Signs of rifts and early schisms in the movement
40:08 Laura-Lynn compares with modern discernment failures
42:03 Kansas City Fellowship, Bob Jones, and Paul Cain links
44:12 The “mystery cloud” reinterpreted as seven angels
45:17 Branham’s strange claims and mental health struggles
46:33 Violent crime behind Ashley’s notoriety
47:57 Lessons about fraud, exploitation, and false ministrie
They examine how prominent ministers like John Osteen and others became entangled in the situation, despite the reputational risk. Laura-Lynn reflects on modern parallels in religious movements where spectacle and personality overshadow truth and discernment. John ties the story into broader patterns in the Pentecostal and charismatic world, including connections to today’s NAR figures. Together, they explore the moral compromises leaders made to protect their ministries and how those choices have shaped the trajectory of these movements, highlighting the need for greater transparency, accountability, and courage to speak against wrongdoing.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Laura-Lynn’s awakening and Branhamite background
03:41 Analogy of good men misled by a con artist
05:23 Early sensationalism: levitating boy and healing acts
07:00 Rise of “Message of the Hour” and Reg Lazelle’s role
08:19 Raymond Hora and connections to Glad Tidings Tabernacle
09:00 The 1950 “halo” photograph at Sam Houston Coliseum
11:02 Photographers, businessmen, and the staged debate
15:04 Dispute over healing and accusations of exploitation
16:22 Violent confrontation at the debate
16:43 Book Dangerous Games and shocking backstory
18:26 Expansion of the halo story into rapture theology
18:57 Transition to the Arizona “mystery cloud” event
20:05 Ashley’s trial, crime, and death row case
21:11 Evangelical leaders rally to support Ashley
22:47 Forced confessions and claims of being Elijah
24:04 Ministers begin questioning Branham’s credibility
27:04 Ashley’s escape, FBI pursuit, and circus disguise
29:12 John Osteen’s involvement and ministry roots
31:11 Why leaders risked career suicide to defend Branham
33:04 Cover-ups around the halo photograph
36:02 Signs of rifts and early schisms in the movement
40:08 Laura-Lynn compares with modern discernment failures
42:03 Kansas City Fellowship, Bob Jones, and Paul Cain links
44:12 The “mystery cloud” reinterpreted as seven angels
45:17 Branham’s strange claims and mental health struggles
46:33 Violent crime behind Ashley’s notoriety
47:57 Lessons about fraud, exploitation, and false ministrie
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LearningTranscript
00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host and friend, Laura Lynn Tyler-Thompson,
00:00:47host of Laura Lynn Live.
00:00:49Laura Lynn, it's good to be back and to talk about all things that are completely shocking
00:00:55to the world you came from.
00:00:57I know that the story that I have for you today, I know that whenever I found it as
00:01:02it related to the Branhamite side of things, I just couldn't believe it.
00:01:07I took a step back and I looked at this and I thought, there's no way this is real.
00:01:11It's far more interesting than many movies that I have watched, and it connects to you
00:01:18a little bit because of some of the research that I have been doing into your old church.
00:01:23I forwarded you a couple of the newspaper articles, so I thought maybe today we would talk about
00:01:29the significance of those articles that I sent you.
00:01:32I'll throw them up on the screen for the viewers, but then I want to talk about the backstory of
00:01:36what those articles mean.
00:01:38I love it, John.
00:01:39And you know, it's just been such an awakening for me and also for my audience and, of course,
00:01:44the many, many people that share the same background because we're, you know, we're a few hundred,
00:01:49maybe a few thousand strong across the country.
00:01:53And in Canada, it's pretty significant.
00:01:56And then it worked into the States with people that also knew my pastors formerly, Reg Lazell,
00:02:03and, you know, and all that took place.
00:02:06And it's actually been fairly life-changing for me.
00:02:09And I think that before you get into the stories, my shock and awe has been I didn't even really
00:02:16understand who William Branham was.
00:02:19And yet the people that I've been running with in Canada are pretty much Branhamites,
00:02:24and they celebrate him.
00:02:26And as we're realizing what the truth is behind all of it, I'm hoping there's an education
00:02:32because we need to be more discerning.
00:02:34And one of the things we've failed in as Christians is to not be discerning.
00:02:40We're not hearing from the Holy Spirit, obviously.
00:02:42And we need to be hearing him regularly because he gives us new information here and there about,
00:02:49you know, the spirit with which someone might be doing something.
00:02:54I heard interesting stories from my good friend, Pastor Mike Poulin, and his wife, Jackie,
00:02:59visited us for the last day or so.
00:03:01And just on how, you know, sometimes people have discernment and then they get into sin
00:03:08or something like that, and it goes all sideways.
00:03:12But with what you are sharing, you're enlightening everyone as to the truth and the reality behind
00:03:19this whole movement that you were raised in as, you know, just with shocking things and
00:03:27also people that we now know and, you know, we don't realize that it, all of these things that happen.
00:03:34So I appreciate the discernment and I can't wait to hear your stories.
00:03:38Believe me, I can't wait.
00:03:39Well, they're a crazy wild ride.
00:03:41I'll say it like that.
00:03:42You know, whenever you take, I'm going to give a hypothetical situation here.
00:03:46Take a room filled with nine really good men with good hearts, good intentions, you know,
00:03:54Christian men who have a Christian agenda and they're wanting to further the gospel to the world.
00:03:59But with the nine is one man who is a con artist and the other men build big ministries, big empires
00:04:08that are literally built upon the foundation that that one con artist built.
00:04:16Whenever they figure it out, what do you do?
00:04:18Because you already have a ministry.
00:04:20You already have all of the people who are following you, sending you money.
00:04:23And then suddenly you realize, wait a minute, something's wrong here.
00:04:28What I have come to find out is there are this, this is a real situation.
00:04:32They weren't all in the same, like a little room, but they were in massive audiences and
00:04:37they discovered that one of them or more was a complete con artist.
00:04:42And what do you do with this?
00:04:44What happened was many of the men started saying, well, William Branham was a good man until
00:04:50he went astray because they had to have figured out at some point that they were conned.
00:04:55And when they did, they, they started cutting ties and they tried to separate their ministry.
00:05:01But what happened was because they covered it up instead of openly said, wait a minute,
00:05:06this guy was a con artist.
00:05:08Then that ministry that any ministry that was connected to Branham continued and grew and
00:05:15flourished and turned into a wild, wild mess.
00:05:18So in the beginning of, in the beginning of all of this, as Branham is going around touring
00:05:24with, we've talked about it before, the levitating boy and talking about Raymond Hoekstra, who was,
00:05:33he was later known as Chaplain Ray, which we'll get into later in this podcast.
00:05:37But in the early years, I don't know how much we've talked about this.
00:05:41Whenever Raymond Hoekstra found the power of attracting crowds of Christians through entertainment
00:05:48with levitating boys, the money became greater than the message.
00:05:55And once he realized the power and potential of the youngster that was allegedly levitating,
00:06:01he actually owned the boy.
00:06:03I've got, if you go to my website and you type in David Walker, you can read all the newspapers
00:06:07where the family has to fight to try to get their boy back because he literally had ownership
00:06:13rights of the child.
00:06:15And he did this because the child was making so much money.
00:06:19Well, if you fast forward to what was created by this, you had William Branham, who was healing
00:06:26the sick.
00:06:27You had the boy.
00:06:28The levitation wasn't his main act.
00:06:30He claimed that he had spent moments of time in heaven.
00:06:33And so crowds were coming to listen, oh, what is heaven like?
00:06:36Tell me what it's like, young child.
00:06:39And so he would spend time telling them what he saw in heaven and then levitate.
00:06:43And then Branham would heal the sick.
00:06:46Well, over time, this shifted and Branham became the foremost message of the scene of
00:06:53the show.
00:06:54And this developed into, obviously, the latter rain and became the latter rain message.
00:06:59Well, it became to be called the message of the hour.
00:07:05So the cult that I came from, the one my grandfather's church here in Jeffersonville, we called it
00:07:10the message of the hour.
00:07:12This was the name of the cult.
00:07:14Worldwide, they call it this.
00:07:16So last couple of weeks, I've been digging a little bit into Reg Lazell and going through
00:07:23articles, trying to piece things together.
00:07:24I don't know when, but soon I will have a site up for Reg Lazell and some of the research
00:07:30information.
00:07:31But I came across one newspaper article where he is preaching on the coming New Testament
00:07:38church.
00:07:39And in the slogan under the sermon title, it says, this is the message of the hour.
00:07:45Don't miss it.
00:07:46So if you consider the fact that Reg Lazell is in the latter rain movement, he's working
00:07:54with, as we'll get into, people who are key figures working with William Branham, and he's
00:07:58using the verbiage, the message of the hour.
00:08:01This puts him directly within the circle of people who are in the direct influence of William
00:08:07Branham.
00:08:08Very shocking.
00:08:09And I know when you sent me the screenshots, I was just like, wow, so this really happened?
00:08:19It did.
00:08:20And another one that I sent you, which I'll throw it up on the screen here, but Raymond
00:08:24Hoekstra, the man who owned the child that was touring with William Branham, he also spent
00:08:30time in Reg Lazell's church.
00:08:33This was the church on 590 Canby Street, Glad Tidings Tabernacle.
00:08:39I grew up hearing all about 590 Canby Street.
00:08:42Oh, yeah.
00:08:43Yeah.
00:08:44So there's a photograph.
00:08:45I'll throw up the newspaper, but they had this nice big photograph whenever Raymond Hoekstra
00:08:50came to visit them.
00:08:52And the date is significant to me because it was 1951.
00:08:58The newspaper article is January 6th, 1951.
00:09:01This is one year after the Latter Rain movement began to believe that a pillar of fire had
00:09:09came down and been captured in a photograph above William Branham's head.
00:09:15And in today's NAR world, you'll find people like Benny Hinn talking about William Branham
00:09:21had a halo above his head.
00:09:23You can find these audio clips out there.
00:09:25William Branham was preaching, my dear, when a halo appeared over his head preaching in
00:09:31Louisiana.
00:09:32What they're referring to is there is a photograph of William Branham where at the top of it there
00:09:39is this beam of light that was captured.
00:09:43And what these guys did, everybody who was in the building, this was the Sam Houston Coliseum,
00:09:50everybody was in the building who saw the stage lighting would have recognized that this is
00:09:54stage lighting.
00:09:55But everybody who bought the book or bought the photographs, it really looks like a halo.
00:10:00It's an effect that is called halation.
00:10:04Whenever they had black and white photographs, if you took a captured, a photograph of a light
00:10:09behind a person, it would create this halo effect called halation.
00:10:13And that's what this was.
00:10:15So this photograph was taken in 1950, one year before Raymond Hoekstra came to visit the Glad
00:10:24Tidings Church, which means it puts it into the orbit of the halo story, which as we get
00:10:30into in this episode, it is a crazy wild ride.
00:10:35Wow.
00:10:35Well, I can't wait to hear this.
00:10:37And I guess you can imagine that if the halo story began to, you know, we didn't have internet,
00:10:44of course, in those days.
00:10:45So I guess one pastor would tell another.
00:10:49And if everybody's sort of in this field of ministers influence, then you would hear a
00:10:54about it, and it would become bigger than life.
00:10:57Absolutely.
00:10:58And it was bigger than life at the moment at which it was captured.
00:11:02When it was captured, it was simply a photograph.
00:11:05It was taken by one of the men was a full gospel businessman, which we've talked about in
00:11:10the last few episodes.
00:11:12His name was James Ayers.
00:11:15And the studio that was hired to take the photographs of the event in the Sam Houston Coliseum was
00:11:23called Douglas Studios.
00:11:25It was named after a young child.
00:11:27I think it was either 13 years old or 14 years old at the time named Leslie Douglas Ashley.
00:11:34He went by Douglas.
00:11:36And he was the one who, whenever the photographs were taken, he's the one who went back into
00:11:41the room and developed the photographs and touched them up, etc.
00:11:44But you had the full gospel businessman, James Ayers, and you had Theodore Kipperman.
00:11:50Those were the two photographers.
00:11:53The event was a debate between William Branham, F.F.
00:11:59Bosworth, who was out of the John Alexander Dowie cult.
00:12:04And it was against a Baptist minister named Best.
00:12:08So they held this big debate, and in the middle of the debate, they took a photograph.
00:12:13It looked like a halo.
00:12:15And in, I think it's this book, Man Sent from God, which was widely published throughout
00:12:22the latter rain movement by Gordon Lindsay, who went on later to found Christ for the Nations
00:12:28Institute.
00:12:29This book was supposed to have the halo photograph on it, but Theodore Kipperman, James Ayers,
00:12:38decided instead they wanted to copyright it because they realized, wait a minute, this
00:12:42looks like a halo.
00:12:43I'll bet I can make some money off this photograph.
00:12:45So they withheld the photograph for copyright.
00:12:50This book got a different picture.
00:12:52And in The Voice of Healing magazine, they announced, we can't use the picture.
00:12:56This book has been held up, but we wanted to use the photograph that was captured in the
00:13:03Sam Houston Coliseum, which later became revered as this halo photograph.
00:13:09So there's a lot of detail surrounding the photograph, but as I'm about to get into,
00:13:14the photograph isn't as interesting as what happened next as it relates to the Pentecostal
00:13:20charismatic movement and eventually the NAR.
00:13:23Wow.
00:13:23Well, I can't wait to hear that.
00:13:26And, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking about some photographs that someone
00:13:32took of me being prayed for.
00:13:35I think it was back in about 2017 in a church and the lighting, they said it was so unusual
00:13:44because the lighting just kind of shone, you know, there was some kind of lighting artifact,
00:13:50you know, that made it like I was almost looked angelic in the middle of everyone praying for
00:13:56me.
00:13:57And I never took that and, you know, built a ministry on it.
00:14:01But it's interesting what light does.
00:14:04And if you are somebody who is, you know, has that, you have to have a certain car salesman
00:14:12ability.
00:14:13You have to have a certain, there's a certain type of person who's willing to take something
00:14:19that's perfectly ordinary and, you know, just has, you know, something like a lighting,
00:14:25you know, feature and exploit it for their own benefit.
00:14:30And that is the difference between a person that is willing to just preach the gospel at
00:14:38its best and a person that's willing to use the gospel for gain, which is what Jesus spoke
00:14:45against.
00:14:46And that certain personality type that is willing to exploit things and people is what I think
00:14:55we find as a significant part of what William Branham did, unfortunately.
00:14:59Actually, that's a good segue into where I was headed with this because of the exploitation.
00:15:05So you had the reason for this debate.
00:15:08The Reverend Best was a defender of, in his mind and his peers, the gospel.
00:15:14And William Branham and F.F.
00:15:16Bosworth were defenders of, in their minds, the quote-unquote full gospel.
00:15:22This meant we believe in the healings, the signs, the wonders, the miracles, etc.
00:15:25I've actually read some of his books and some of his published literature.
00:15:31He believed in divine healing.
00:15:33He just did not believe in divine healers as such.
00:15:35He would always say it, I don't believe in divine healers as such.
00:15:40But he believed that God healed the sick.
00:15:42It's written in the Bible.
00:15:43How can you not believe it?
00:15:45But his debate was, he thought that these men, like William Branham, were exploiting the people
00:15:51for financial gain, for nothing else but to make themselves rich and famous.
00:15:57So he wanted to debate and challenge them.
00:16:01The debate itself, so picture all of these people, Christian people, coming to this meeting.
00:16:06On one side, we have the people who don't believe this divine healing stuff, but does believe
00:16:13in God.
00:16:13They're Christian.
00:16:14Then you have all the Pentecostal charismatic, before charismatic existed, the Pentecostal
00:16:20latter reign, I should say.
00:16:22They were fighting on behalf of the science miracles.
00:16:25It broke out into a fist fight right there in the Sam Houston Coliseum.
00:16:30Christians fist fighting Christians, and they had to escort them from the building quickly.
00:16:34Even that is not the most interesting thing.
00:16:39So there is a book by Robert L. Bentley called Dangerous Games.
00:16:46And this book was key to unlocking the whole mystery behind all of this story.
00:16:52This book is about Leslie Douglas Ashley after she became a transgender, and she started working
00:17:02in the political party supporting President Clinton and some other Democrats in the Democratic
00:17:08Party.
00:17:10Leslie Douglas Ashley, at the time that this photograph was captured and was involved in capturing
00:17:16it, was a young male prostitute who was working, likely working on the grounds at the Sam Houston
00:17:24Coliseum.
00:17:25So we have a prostitute, and all of that information is detailed in this book.
00:17:30The two men, Leslie Douglas Ashley's, they were the uncle and the stepfather, James Ayers,
00:17:37Ted Kipperman.
00:17:38They were also counterfeiters.
00:17:40So you had a counterfeiter who's working with a prostitute young child who later became
00:17:48transgender, and all of this is surrounding this halo photograph.
00:17:53This is the backstory that probably nobody knew at that time.
00:17:58So back to my original analogy, you had 10, 15 people in the room.
00:18:03They saw all of this thing.
00:18:04They saw the halo photograph.
00:18:06Maybe it's God.
00:18:07Maybe not.
00:18:07I don't know.
00:18:08I was there, but I saw stage lighting.
00:18:10But they're saying it's God coming down in a pillar of fire, so I'm going to believe it
00:18:14as a Lateran minister, that would have been the story that was pitched likely at the Glad
00:18:21Tidings Tabernacle, because it's only about one year in advance.
00:18:26But after that book was published, or after the photograph was published, the story ran
00:18:35rampant.
00:18:36William Branham said that this was like the pillar of fire that came down from Moses and
00:18:40the children of Israel.
00:18:41He said this is the same pillar of fire in today's world that is showing us that we're
00:18:46about to escape this world, and he started preaching his rapture theology.
00:18:52So fast forward to the year 1963.
00:18:57William Branham was preaching in Jeffersonville, and he said that God was going to give him the
00:19:05mystery, and he was to go out to Arizona and hunt.
00:19:09He goes to Arizona to hunt, and the second of the two major relics of Branhamism is this
00:19:17mystery cloud.
00:19:19I don't know.
00:19:19Have you seen this before, the mystery cloud?
00:19:22Yes, I have.
00:19:24In Googling things, yes.
00:19:25Yeah.
00:19:26I've seen this.
00:19:27So if you are a Branhamite, and oddly, if you're in the New Apostolic Reformation, or many of
00:19:35its predecessors, these two are the two relics of Branhamism.
00:19:40You have the cloud, and you have the halo.
00:19:42And they're both connected in a strange way.
00:19:45When William Branham went out west to hunt and to receive his message from the Lord, whatever
00:19:52it was that he claimed, he arrived in Arizona before hunting season, and Leslie Douglas Ashley,
00:20:03the one who was with the two photographers, was on a three-day sex orgy.
00:20:12I hate to say that word, but he was in a three-day sex orgy with a man named Fred Tomes, and shot
00:20:19him.
00:20:20And so he had another prostitute with him.
00:20:25He, the prostitute with him, took Fred Tomes, burned the body, fled the scene, and made the
00:20:32FBI's most wanted list.
00:20:34So, this is coming down into a weird setup, because you've got William Branham, who's out
00:20:42to receive a message from God, two prostitutes.
00:20:45How is all of this connected?
00:20:48Well, James Ayers, the man who was a full gospel businessman, the stepfather of the boy,
00:20:55the one who realized that this halo photograph that so many people have taken to be this pillar
00:21:02of fire, he used it as leverage.
00:21:06And he said, William Branham, you have to come help us get Leslie Douglas Ashley off of Death
00:21:12Row.
00:21:12So, at the time that this cloud happened in Arizona, which this was the result of a rocket
00:21:21detonation for the missile defense system, which is another story for another day.
00:21:26At the time this happened, Branham was in Houston, Texas with the full gospel businessman, with
00:21:36John Osteen, Joe Osteen's father, was there with him, and they were setting up a petition
00:21:45to try to stay the execution of Leslie Douglas Ashley.
00:21:49So, while all of this is going on, Leslie Douglas Ashley is being taunted as a poster child for
00:21:57a conversion to Christianity, even though he's a transgender prostitute.
00:22:03All of these men are coming together, rallying around him, and there is an audio clip, which
00:22:10I have also on my website, of what sounds very much like a forced confession from Leslie
00:22:15Douglas Ashley.
00:22:17My testimony, I am entitled, is called God Provided Me, the Road of Salvation.
00:22:22God created man in his image, and according to Romans 12, I have laid before him my life
00:22:28as a living sacrifice, and his will will be my life.
00:22:31At the time all of this is happening, all of these men are, at this point, not yet at
00:22:48the point where they believe William Branham has gone astray.
00:22:51They're all rallying around him, but during the course of this meeting, you have to understand
00:22:57that it likely came into their minds that suddenly they're thinking, you know, not much of this
00:23:04story really adds up.
00:23:06Why are we here helping to defend a transgender prostitute who killed a man?
00:23:12Why are we listening to this forced confession?
00:23:15Gordon Lindsay, who, again, is the head for Christ for the Nations, he publishes in the
00:23:21Voice of Healing magazine the whole event as though this was a conversion to Christ, and
00:23:28we'll get it – I won't get it too far into this, but Ashley later left all of this
00:23:35and became probably completely atheist, did completely have a sex change, and was rallying against
00:23:43against most of the political parties that these men support.
00:23:47So, if it was a conversion, it didn't last very long.
00:23:50But there came a point that everybody's in the same room together, and they have to realize
00:23:55that man that we're supporting here, he's got to be a con artist.
00:24:00Unbelievable.
00:24:04And oh, to be a fly on the wall when it kind of begins to sink in, like, what is happening,
00:24:11you know?
00:24:13That is crazy.
00:24:15And you're right, it's like a movie.
00:24:17It's a good Wednesday night, maybe Friday night movie on a series of things that went down.
00:24:25So, then what happens?
00:24:26So, after they all started rallying to try to petition for this day of execution, Branham
00:24:34does come to Houston because he's there when this cloud formation happened.
00:24:41He and John Osteen visited in the prison cell.
00:24:43I think there's either photographs or there's text about it.
00:24:47I think I've got a text article about it.
00:24:49On the 24th day of May, 1961, I was found guilty of murder after a nine-day trial here
00:24:57in Houston.
00:24:58The oil mill jury, consisting of four oil refinery workers, a carpenter, a tree surgeon, a postal
00:25:04clerk, a postman, an estimator for an electric contractor, a retired foundry worker, a salesman,
00:25:10and a millwright for a paper company, assessed the penalty at death.
00:25:14Then, following the death penalty, I was transferred from the hospital to death row to a very lonely
00:25:20cold cell here in the county jail.
00:25:23During the day, I received a visit from a local pastor, Pentecostal, and he asked me did I know
00:25:29who Jesus was, and my reply was, no, who is he?
00:25:33He explained to me in detail as I listened, and then afterwards he led prayer.
00:25:37Something I believed truly led me how to pray and seek forgiveness.
00:25:41Upon his departure, he presented me with a Bible with certain verses underlined.
00:25:45They tried to convince the judge and failed, but what happened was they convinced Leslie
00:25:54Douglas Ashley to start claiming that he was Elijah the prophet.
00:26:00And if you know the history of Branhamism and everything leading to Branhamism through
00:26:05Christian identities, Malachi 4 theology, they believed that the Elijah of the Old Testament
00:26:16would be restored in the last days, and we would see this Elijah figure again.
00:26:21They also knew that not many people would really believe this, and they would think that Ashley
00:26:26was crazy.
00:26:27So Leslie Douglas Ashley started claiming that he was the return of Elijah the prophet, and
00:26:32he and some of the other guys, and I guess in the full gospel businessmen, started an evangelical
00:26:40foundation for his Elijah ministry.
00:26:44And there was actually a stay of execution for a plea of insanity because he was claiming to
00:26:50be Elijah the prophet.
00:26:53Ashley, after the stay of execution, Ashley escaped the minimum security prison.
00:27:02That he was in and hid out, I guess, in the circus as I think Bobo the clown or something.
00:27:09But the FBI, I'll throw this up on the screen.
00:27:12It's kind of funny.
00:27:13The FBI's top 10 most wanted picture has a, has him as a both male and female.
00:27:20And there's a article somewhere that's talking about the FBI agents are looking for a man dressed
00:27:27as a woman holding a Bible and preaching while dressed as both, while hiding out as a clown
00:27:34in the circus.
00:27:35It's one of the craziest articles that I've ever came across.
00:27:39Unbelievable.
00:27:39But all of this because these full gospel businessmen helped, I guess, convince him to
00:27:46be Elijah the prophet.
00:27:48So, here's the poster child for a converted transgender person who converted to the Lateran
00:27:58movement, gave their heart to Christ, and has this weird forced confession.
00:28:03Immediately, when the chance, when the chance opens, escapes prison and starts hiding out and
00:28:09running from the law.
00:28:10So, you can tell there wasn't really a conversion there at all.
00:28:13Wow.
00:28:14And when you're talking about John Osteen, I just want to confirm, this is the father
00:28:21of Joel Osteen, the same?
00:28:24It is the same one.
00:28:26Not many people know this, but John Osteen, I even have, somewhere I've got articles of
00:28:32him touring some of the Lateran churches.
00:28:35He was deeply embedded in this thing that, I guess you would call it, even back then, you
00:28:40would still call it the message of the hour.
00:28:43So, he was embedded in this.
00:28:44His ministry almost failed, and as I understand it, the full gospel businessmen, the same ones
00:28:51who were working with Branham, offered him a tent ministry and, I guess, helped establish
00:28:59his ministry when his ministry was failing.
00:29:01So, that church that Joel Osteen preaches from today, it exists only because they were part
00:29:07of this movement.
00:29:08Wow.
00:29:09Fascinating.
00:29:10And John was a part of trying to get this guy pardoned?
00:29:16Right.
00:29:16Absolutely.
00:29:17What have you done?
00:29:18I mean, I'm just so shocked.
00:29:20Like, what was it to them that they all rallied around this person?
00:29:25Well, that's just it.
00:29:26See, in my mind, I try to think of logically what makes the most sense, and none of this
00:29:33makes any sense.
00:29:34If you really take a step back and think about it, it was almost career suicide for many
00:29:41of these evangelists to try to rally around this person.
00:29:44I very, very cautiously talked about what happened during the – I did use the O word, but I
00:29:53very cautiously talked about what happened.
00:29:56If you actually read the articles, this was a very nasty, nasty crime.
00:30:00This isn't something that any evangelical minister would ever want to try to help or
00:30:06try to, you know, stay the execution.
00:30:10So, it's really odd.
00:30:12I think this is the point at which many of the ministers suddenly realized that they had
00:30:17been conned.
00:30:18It has to have been, because they're in the room with Branham, with James Ayers, these
00:30:25men who knew that the photograph was actually just stage lighting, and that was his leverage
00:30:33over Branham to get Branham to come and headline the Stay of Execution revivals.
00:30:37So, you're in this revival for a transgender person who committed a murder solely to salvage
00:30:45the notion that there was a halo above William Branham's head.
00:30:50So, I'm putting myself in their shoes as a minister.
00:30:54I don't know that I could buy this.
00:30:55Even if I was a part of the movement, I don't know if I could buy this, because it literally
00:31:00would have been career suicide.
00:31:02John Osteen had nothing to lose, though, because his whole ministry existed because these men
00:31:07had helped prop it up.
00:31:09Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression of
00:31:14modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic, and other fringe
00:31:19movements into the new apostolic reformation?
00:31:23You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,
00:31:28william-branham.org.
00:31:29On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles
00:31:35Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio,
00:31:42and digital versions of each book.
00:31:44You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those
00:31:50movements.
00:31:51If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute
00:31:56button at the top.
00:31:57And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're
00:32:02listening to or watching.
00:32:04On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
00:32:08Why do you think, John, why William Branham would want to see this guy vindicated?
00:32:17Is it because he was associated with him prior?
00:32:21Is that it?
00:32:21If you read all of the information that exists about these guys, these guys are...
00:32:30Ted Kipperman, who is the other photographer, went on to create a pawn and wedding shop in
00:32:37Houston, you could go in, you could hawk, you could hawk something and get a ring and suddenly
00:32:43get married in the same building.
00:32:45That's how weird this is.
00:32:46So these weren't really your top Christian guys that he's working with.
00:32:52But my gut tells me that if they knew that the halo photograph was nothing but stage lighting,
00:33:01and we have photographs, I'll throw them up on the screen.
00:33:03You can see other photographs from the same exact era, and even later, the black and white
00:33:09ones.
00:33:09It looks like a halo, but you can see the stage lighting behind their heads.
00:33:14There was stage lighting in there.
00:33:16So the photographers knew.
00:33:18But in the latter rain movement, this was a popular photograph.
00:33:23There was a lot of mileage that came from this photograph.
00:33:26And every ministry that was connected to Branham, that was literally, this is the pillar of fire
00:33:33that's vindicating our entire ministries.
00:33:36This is the pillar of fire that came down over the children of Israel, and it's over the head
00:33:41prophet of the latter rain movement, William Branham.
00:33:43I think there's a point at which the men realized that either we admit that the whole thing was a fake,
00:33:54or we go support this.
00:33:56And there had to have been a, literally, there had to have been a decision made in their minds
00:34:01before they did this.
00:34:02Because, again, it's career suicide to come try to get involved with this.
00:34:07So there had to have been a decision within their minds that they're going to cover this
00:34:14up.
00:34:15Yes, the guy, we have now figured out the guy had to have been a con artist.
00:34:19But if we expose that, then we expose ourselves.
00:34:22So it's more about protecting themselves than it was protecting the truth.
00:34:26So the guy on death row, he has shot someone, and he's been with prostitutes.
00:34:36And William Branham wants this guy because maybe there's a, he had feigned or said he had
00:34:46come to the Lord, and so they were going to help him.
00:34:49Do you think there was any chance that he, from his prison cell, would be saying,
00:34:56I'm going to out you guys.
00:34:58You either help me or, like, blackmailed in any way.
00:35:02I'm just, I'm just trying to think of another angle.
00:35:05Well, you're talking about two counterfeiters.
00:35:07The guys who owned the studios were counterfeiters.
00:35:10I mean, and they had, I've got the legal documents on my website for that.
00:35:16You can see that clearly there was a problem here.
00:35:19These were not, these were not very good men that he was working with.
00:35:24I don't know.
00:35:24I go back and forth because if you read the statements that is in the book, Dangerous Games,
00:35:30either they have been paid to cover it up or they legitimately did not know what, what was
00:35:37wrong with the photograph.
00:35:38Ted Kipperman in the book, he was interviewed and he said that he thought maybe his camera
00:35:43was faulty.
00:35:45And myself, I go back and I look at all of the photographs that are from the era.
00:35:50I don't know that I buy the faulty camera thing because if you find other photographs that
00:35:55look like halos, which again, I'll throw some up on the screen, he had to have known it was
00:36:01stage lighting.
00:36:02So odd.
00:36:03And so, so you think that this was probably the, the moment in history when people began
00:36:10to go, what is really going on here that weren't involved in this, you know, debacle.
00:36:16So John Osteen may have had a wake up at that time.
00:36:20Based off of my research, whenever I put things together into a timeline, you start to see
00:36:25these patterns emerge.
00:36:26Again, I looked at, I looked at Reg Lazell's newspaper articles, advertising his Sunday
00:36:34sermons, and I see the message of the hour, which binds it to all this.
00:36:39You had the halo photograph in 1950.
00:36:41You have Reg Lazell, 1951.
00:36:45Then, you know, it's just 1953, I think.
00:36:51It's whenever there's a big falling out between William Branham and some of the other
00:36:56ministers, you can start to see signs along the way where there are rifts occurring, and
00:37:03there are people who are at odds with each other, and they always seem to come back.
00:37:09The rift that happened in 1953, Branham was to speak in, I think it was Chicago, at one
00:37:15of the Voice of Healing conventions, and they snubbed him.
00:37:18They wouldn't let him speak, and this caused this big schism in the movement.
00:37:23You had people from the leadership in the movement in Chicago that are fighting with
00:37:28Gordon Lindsay, very verbally.
00:37:30You can see it in their news, in their magazine articles.
00:37:33So you have these rifts that are forming all along the way, and whenever something like
00:37:39this happens, if you get on one side or the other of the debate, you're going to think
00:37:44critically, and that's really the key to unlocking all of this.
00:37:47If you take a step back and think critically about any of it, you're going to say, this
00:37:51doesn't make sense.
00:37:53This doesn't even resemble Christianity.
00:37:55So if you start to notice when people are having these shifts and these difference of
00:38:02opinion that are major, significant enough to publish in a magazine, you have to know
00:38:07that they had some inside knowledge as to those people that they agreed with and those
00:38:14people that they thought were complete scoundrels.
00:38:16The fact that Branham was snubbed in 1953, which is two years after this was taken, it
00:38:22tells me that there were people, at least in 1953, who realized that's not a pillar of
00:38:28fire.
00:38:28This is not something from God.
00:38:30Otherwise, why would you snub him?
00:38:32Why would you let the messenger for the hour stand back and not be a speaker, right?
00:38:38So I have to believe that all along the way, there were people who knew.
00:38:42I don't think everybody knew.
00:38:44I think that there were a lot of people who just bought it because they were told, like
00:38:50Reg Lazell, I have no reason to think that he was bringing these men into his church because
00:38:55he thought they were scoundrels.
00:38:57He probably believed they were good men.
00:38:59But he also didn't have all the information.
00:39:01Whenever you go through a trial of this significance, this was a nationally publicized, crazy, crazy
00:39:11trial from a guy who, back then, transgender was not so common as it is today.
00:39:17This was highly offensive to many of the people of that era.
00:39:21And to make the FBI's most wanted list, this was nationally publicized.
00:39:27So I think during the course of that trial, so much information had to have come out that
00:39:34these men had to have critically thought.
00:39:36So in my opinion, which it's all just opinion, I think they had to have known.
00:39:42They had to have been, at this point, they had to have awakened and realized, this isn't
00:39:47right.
00:39:47Something here is not right.
00:39:49Something here is not right.
00:39:50And you know, down through the ages, I think what we're getting to and why God is flipping
00:39:56the tables right now, and even you coming out of this in 2012 and your journey to bring
00:40:04light and exposure to the truth, this is the hour where God has suddenly released a lot
00:40:17of information through internet, through podcasters such as yourself and myself, so that people
00:40:25like, I was just listening to a broadcast of Rick Joyner, still trying to promote someone
00:40:32like Todd Bentley or Jim Baker.
00:40:36He brought him back and I heard recently, Jim is feeling like he's, you know, going bankrupt,
00:40:42selling the end days food and these, you know, these electrical, well, you know, you have
00:40:51a backup generator, make sure you have your backup generator for the end of the world and
00:40:56all that.
00:40:56Um, I guess it's not, um, you know, everything is being exposed for the nonsense that it is.
00:41:06And like I was discussing Bob Jones, uh, this week with a couple of people, here's a guy
00:41:14who, I guess he had some words, prophetic words that came true.
00:41:19He said some things, but he used his prophetic gifting to get women to disrobe in his office
00:41:25or wherever he did these prophetic words.
00:41:28And you have to then wonder, like God is watching, where is the fear of the Lord?
00:41:36And when I see what shenanigans William Branham did, um, and these other men that were with him,
00:41:45where was the fear of the Lord?
00:41:47It's no wonder in 1953, hopefully some serious lovers of the truth of Jesus Christ began to say,
00:41:55yeah, buddies, this far and no further, we're not supporting this anymore.
00:42:00Absolutely.
00:42:01And Bob Jones is another one who was a strong defender of William Branham.
00:42:06And he, if you study the IHOP history, International House of Prayer in Kansas City,
00:42:12they, they basically reinvented Branhamism in, in Kansas City with this movement.
00:42:18Paul Kane being one of the biggest supporters, uh, Bob Jones also.
00:42:23What's really odd.
00:42:24So I mentioned the cloud photo, the, the cloud photograph that's in this magazine.
00:42:30So when this happened, William Branham was in Houston, Texas, defending the transgender person.
00:42:36Everybody was with him.
00:42:38Everybody knew he was there.
00:42:40Everybody who's part of this movement rallied around him, gave their support.
00:42:44It's published in, you know, the voice of healing magazine.
00:42:48Everybody who reads the magazine knows that he's there.
00:42:50Well, he goes back to Arizona for his hunting trip after, after this has came and gone.
00:42:58Goes back to Jeffersonville, Indiana, and somebody hands him this magazine.
00:43:03He mentions it on recording that after, I think he preached like 10 sermons and somebody handed him this.
00:43:09And he said, I was there, I was right under this thing.
00:43:14And this is a photograph of seven angels coming down from the heavens to give me the mystery behind the seven seals of revelation.
00:43:21That's why this hangs in everybody's church.
00:43:24Who's in this, you know, churches or homes that are in this movement.
00:43:28So Paul Cain, who's big into many, the instrumental in helping create many ministries and connections within the NAR.
00:43:40Bob Jones, who was a strong supporter of Branham, who also helped establish the Kansas City Fellowship, etc.
00:43:48They are promoting a man who was lying through his teeth.
00:43:53And I have to believe Paul Cain would have known many of these things.
00:43:59Anybody who's reading the magazines and puts the timeline together, there has to be a point when you recognize something's not right here.
00:44:07Whenever I was growing up in this, I knew all of the events.
00:44:12I never thought about them in the form of a timeline.
00:44:14And I had no idea that the reason why he was in Houston, Texas, was because of the transgender person who committed a murder.
00:44:24I remember William Branham talking about helping stay the execution.
00:44:30And he said, this sounds crazy, but he said it and we oddly believed it.
00:44:36He said that the Humane Society gave him an Oscar for his performance in helping stay that execution.
00:44:45And now me looking back as a grown adult man, thinking back to just that statement in itself is so absurd.
00:44:52You can tell that there's a mental health problem here.
00:44:55This man has a mental health issue.
00:44:57But there are adults in the ministry who are still preaching it.
00:45:03And they're preaching it, in my opinion, they're covering up all of this past because their ministries, their entire empires are built on top of this.
00:45:12I'm certain that they're aware of many of these details.
00:45:15But if they admit, wait a minute, this guy was a con artist.
00:45:20Well, what parts of your ministry were built on top of his foundation?
00:45:24And you have to start taking everything down.
00:45:26Eventually, it's a house of cards.
00:45:28Yes, eventually it is.
00:45:30And do we have any understanding of why this guy was murdered?
00:45:38Like what happened?
00:45:39What the reason was?
00:45:41Yes.
00:45:42And if you read this book, it will tell you all of the graphic and gory details.
00:45:48Because this podcast goes out on YouTube, I can't give too much information.
00:45:53Wow.
00:45:54So, to put it in a G-rated, well, it's not even G, but to put it in a way that YouTube can play it.
00:46:03There were three people involved.
00:46:05Two of them were prostitutes.
00:46:08And they, in the course of what they were doing, a gun was part of their fun.
00:46:14Okay.
00:46:14And I'll leave it at that.
00:46:17And the gun went off.
00:46:18You can let your mind wander.
00:46:20Right.
00:46:21Okay.
00:46:23Yeah.
00:46:23So, we get the picture.
00:46:25So, my goodness.
00:46:27What a story.
00:46:28So, when Jeremiah talks about the wicked, how wicked our human hearts are, and beyond all
00:46:39believability, this is really what we've seen in the life and times of William Branham and, you know, and others since him that are just, I think, using the gospel for their own gain.
00:46:57And there is fraud, lies, deception, murder, the strangest of things.
00:47:06And what's weird is it involved people in and around them that got bigger names, like John Osteen.
00:47:15I mean, probably very few people know Reg Lazell.
00:47:18That's a personal name, very well known to me, because he was the senior pastor of the church I grew up in until he turned it over to Maureen Gilardi.
00:47:28But these men were all running in these same circles, I guess, because the big meetings were happening and people were saying, oh, this is maybe Elijah, come back or whatever.
00:47:40And even at his death, at William Branham's death, I think you said that somebody, you know, made this, you know, this quote that, you know, we have seen Elijah through his life or whatever.
00:47:55Something to that effect.
00:47:56For me, the moral of the story is this.
00:47:59It all goes back to that article that I shared with you, where Chaplain Raymond Hoekstra ties all this together.
00:48:09So Chaplain Raymond Hoekstra, who owned the child, who's levitating, who's touring with William Branham.
00:48:15Chaplain Raymond Hoekstra, the reason he has this title is because he earned a title of being a prison ministry for helping this Leslie Douglas Ashley.
00:48:30He was there with Branham.
00:48:32He was part of this entertainment thing.
00:48:34And that's solely what it was.
00:48:37It was entertainment.
00:48:38The moral of the story here is whenever you try to build something that isn't the gospel, something that is solely for the purpose of entertainment.
00:48:48Entertainment does attract crowds.
00:48:50It does attract money.
00:48:52But it is not the gospel.
00:48:54And that's what they were presenting this form of entertainment with levitating boys, with halos, with whatever it is.
00:49:01The men who are behind it, like Raymond Hoekstra, he had to have known that this boy truly couldn't levitate.
00:49:09You have to know this, right?
00:49:10You have to know that the transgender person did not convert to Christianity.
00:49:15It's very obvious that he didn't.
00:49:18But in spinning it in such a way that it sounds entertaining to a crowd, it brings in money.
00:49:26It does bring in money.
00:49:27The problem is, if you never admit to it and you continue that theme, entertainment gets boring.
00:49:35So you have to get bigger.
00:49:36You have to get better.
00:49:38You have to get more entertaining, more tricks, more stage personas.
00:49:42And that's really why we have the NAR today.
00:49:46If you follow it, if you trace it all the way back through all of this, it isn't that everything is built on William Branham, even though he was a key part of this.
00:49:53It's the entertainment that they were focusing upon, not the gospel.
00:49:59And as you grow that entertainment, you turn into a solid mess.
00:50:03And I feel like, John, that's what I've been highlighting here in Canada with Sean Foyt.
00:50:09You know, I've taken some real hits from my Canadian audience because they're like, what is wrong with you?
00:50:16Because I had big worship events during the COVID years outdoors.
00:50:22We gathered to worship.
00:50:25But Sean Foyt comes here and he's shut down and they say he's being persecuted because he's MAGA and he's being persecuted because of his policies or opinions on LGBTQ.
00:50:39And the thing is, so just today, he has a picture of a person from that group and they have a sign.
00:50:54And Sean Foyt's words is basically, we have to open up the mental institutions as soon as possible so that we can get this, I guess, wacko, you know, put in there.
00:51:09And I just was like, you know, people need Jesus.
00:51:16Is this how Jesus would try to convert the sinners?
00:51:20Is call them mental cases and come out against them?
00:51:26And so when Sean Foyt shows up in Canada and he has smoke bombs thrown at him, he is now disallowed in Winnipeg.
00:51:35And I think the latest is no churches will have him in Winnipeg, the Manitoba area.
00:51:42The churches won't have him now.
00:51:45And he'll go on to his social media saying, like, Canada's shut down, they're communists, they're not allowing worship.
00:51:53Not true.
00:51:54In the same city where he was in Montreal and gets the smoke bombs thrown at him, which he called firebombs initially, which was not a firebomb.
00:52:03So we had to kind of go, oh, yeah, walk that back a bit.
00:52:06Oh, this is just a smoke bomb, purple, purple smoke bomb, quite different than a firebomb.
00:52:10But now, when, you know, when he's not allowed in all these cities, he's saying that, you know, it's Canada.
00:52:18But in actuality, in Montreal, they had this huge worship gathering in downtown Montreal.
00:52:24Everyone singing worship, no smoke bombs, no police, no Antifa, nobody protesting because it's really about Sean Foyt.
00:52:34And trying to get this message across has been really difficult.
00:52:38Like, the discernment is really at a low level.
00:52:42And I think that's how we got here.
00:52:44People, thank God, began to discern William Branham.
00:52:49But look how long it has taken for truly coming out of this man to the point where the people in Canada that have been doing Battle for Canada,
00:53:01Art Lussier, Steve Holmstrom, Dean Briggs, all of these guys, Mark Brisbois, man, they're just all about William Branham.
00:53:11And they don't even investigate.
00:53:14They have been trained into a way of thinking.
00:53:17And our discernment needs to come up at this hour.
00:53:21Exactly.
00:53:22There has to be a point in which people stand up for what's right.
00:53:26And I think that there were people who, after all of this played out, there had to have been some of the men and women who were in those meetings and saw what happened, that they did wake up.
00:53:39Sadly, most of them woke up silently and they just walked away.
00:53:43There needs to be more people who speak out whenever something is wrong.
00:53:47You have to put a stop to what's wrong or you're part of it.
00:53:49And I feel that those who went on to build their ministries on top of this and say that God's generals, William Branham is one of God's generals, but he went astray at the end.
00:54:01If you really understand what that means, it means that you're supporting a con artist through the first part of his ministry saying that that was one of God's general.
00:54:09It's only whenever it starts to look like it might affect my own ministry when you say he's turning astray.
00:54:16But he was always like this, no matter what era you look at, it was always the same thing.
00:54:22It's just they were about to get caught.
00:54:24And just to reiterate something that, you know, you enlightened me to, but just for new members of the audience who might not have seen our last few podcasts.
00:54:35But William Branham was in in the hospital, often for mental health issues and having nervous breakdowns and things like that, just totally, you know, being covered up.
00:54:47He was not well much of the time.
00:54:50No, he was not.
00:54:51In fact, one of the mythologies of William Branham is that he got attacked by a demon squirrel.
00:54:57He starts talking about being in this mental health episode, and he, I think it was Mayo's clinic that he was going to, but he starts talking about how he was attacked by a demon squirrel.
00:55:09The problem is I am very sympathetic to mental health issues.
00:55:14I think people, you can't help it.
00:55:16There are people who just need help, and I'm sympathetic to it.
00:55:19But the people that I know of who do have issues, whenever they're in an episode, I will never think that that episode is something that's sent from God.
00:55:30And if they claim that they see a vision during the episode or whatever it is, you have to really question that.
00:55:36And again, you look at some of the men that were involved in this mess, they had to have known.
00:55:42First off, they had to have known that they were being conned.
00:55:45But they also, when you're around somebody who has mental health issues, it doesn't take long before you sense it.
00:55:53And the men and women who were in the inner circle who began to realize that this guy is just a little crazy.
00:55:59They had to have known.
00:56:00They had to have understood it.
00:56:02But whenever you're looking at a crowd of 10,000 people, and they all came to see the guy who you know has this issue,
00:56:10it's very difficult to step up and say, it's not right, I'm not going to be a part of this.
00:56:17And it really comes down to character.
00:56:20You had people of character who left and said, I want no part of it.
00:56:24But you had other people who I questioned their character because they continued it.
00:56:29Wow, that is such a good point.
00:56:31And was there anyone who, okay, in 53, you're saying that they didn't want him preaching.
00:56:38Do you know of anyone who out loud was saying something is wrong here?
00:56:46Do you know of anyone like that at that time, going against the Branhamites?
00:56:51Well, that's our story for another day, because that led up directly to a tie into Jim Jones.
00:57:00There was a point at which, I doubt it was as many as Branham said,
00:57:04but there was a point at which hundreds of ministers stood up and said,
00:57:08we want no part of this over one of the key doctrines that Branham had introduced.
00:57:13Jim Jones took the side against Branham.
00:57:16And it all began with this rift that I talked about in 1953.
00:57:22That began to escalate.
00:57:24And by 1950, I think it was 1956, it went very explosive.
00:57:31And numerous people who were in the developing,
00:57:35what would develop into the charismatic movement,
00:57:38numerous people were prophesying Branham's death because he was outright heretical.
00:57:43And after he died and he was venerated as God's general,
00:57:49they seem to have erased that history too.
00:57:51So next time, maybe we can talk about that.
00:57:54Let's do that.
00:57:55John, it's always so fascinating.
00:57:57Thank you for what you're bringing to light.
00:57:59I thank you personally.
00:58:01And I know that I keep getting emails and such
00:58:05that people are being so awakened and enlightened
00:58:08by the information you're bringing because it's actually truly very unique to your life
00:58:14and it impacts our lives.
00:58:17And you're just doing a great job.
00:58:19I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
00:58:21I know that you take heat for it
00:58:24and there's backlash against you spiritually and personally,
00:58:28but you're doing what is right.
00:58:31And I have such respect for you.
00:58:33Thank you, John.
00:58:34Well, thank you so much.
00:58:35I appreciate it.
00:58:36I don't know that I deserve it, but I appreciate it.
00:58:39If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information,
00:58:41you can check us out on the web.
00:58:43You can find us at william-branham.org and Laura Lynn Live.
00:58:47For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation,
00:58:50you can read Weaponized Religion,
00:58:52From Christian Identity to the NAR,
00:58:54available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
00:58:57Weaponized Religion,
00:59:27Weaponized Religion,
00:59:57Weaponized Religion,
00:59:58And Girl, and Audible.
00:59:59Weaponized News,
00:59:59And Audible.
01:00:00Weaponized Religion,
01:00:02And Audible.
01:00:03Weaponized信念han 거야.
01:00:03Weaponized completion.
01:00:04Weaponized Dream,
01:00:08Weaponized Religion,
01:00:09Must Reich,
01:00:14Weaponized Religion,
01:00:15Weaponized Mean 2014,
01:00:17Weaponized trust and weaponized
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