THE DEAD CAN’T SIN: Bill Johnson, DNA Theology & Branhamism Exposed | Laura-Lynn Tyler Thompson  417 - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

John and Laura-Lynn discuss the disturbing theological overlaps between William Branham’s teachings and modern charismatic leaders, particularly focusing on a recent sermon by Bill Johnson titled “The Dead Can’t Sin.” The episode opens with Laura-Lynn reflecting on the weight of recent episodes, and John explaining how Bill Johnson’s sermon eerily parallels the cult-like doctrine he grew up hearing. They dig deep into how perfectionism, spiritual abuse, and identity theology are repackaged in modern movements like Bethel, exposing the subtle shifts in language and theology that manipulate audiences.  As the discussion unfolds, they unpack the dangerous implications of claiming Christians have “God’s DNA,” tying it back to the Christian Identity movement, the Manifested Sons of God doctrine, and even historical white supremacist theology. John connects the dots between Branham, Jim Jones, and present-day teachings that emphasize dominion, radical obedience, and elite spiritual hierarchy. Drawing on historical accounts, personal experience, and scholarly sources, they explore how these doctrines twist Scripture to lead followers toward control, fear, and exclusion. The conversation culminates in a powerful warning about the resurgence of these teachings under new branding.   Chapters: 00:00 Introduction 00:31 The Dynamic Duo Returns 02:19 Jim Jones Walks Away from Branham 03:47 Bill Johnson’s Sermon: “The Dead Can’t Sin” 05:12 Twisting Scripture and Perfectionism 10:26 Christian Identity and British Israelism 14:38 Serpent Seed, DNA Doctrines, and Racism 16:45 Todd White, Joyce Meyer, and Perfection Claims 18:58 Twisting “New Creature” into DNA Theology 22:10 Seven Mountains Mandate and Dominionism 25:26 Radical Obedience and Fear-Based Control 26:28 Unbelief as Sin: Shutting Off Critical Thinking 30:17 Manifested Sons of God Doctrine 33:41 Serpent’s Lie: You Can Be Like God 38:05 Cult Thinking vs. Critical Thinking 40:47 Real-World Tragedies from DNA Teachings 43:42 Jim Jones Confronts Branham in 1957 47:21 Jim Jones’ Prophecy of Branham’s Death 50:21 Did Branham Even Believe the Bible? 52:48 Local Suppression of Branham-Jones Connections 54:55 Closing Thoughts and Resources  ______________________ Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR: Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962 Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.

00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research

00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host and friend, Laura Lynn Tyler Thompson,

00:48the host of Laura Lynn Live. Laura, it's good to be back, and I'm still kind of reeling for the

00:54episode that came out earlier today with you and I. We were discussing one of the craziest

00:59stories in Branhamite history, but it actually is a foundational piece to charismatic N.A.R.

01:06history, and I was reading through the comments, and somebody said that you and I are like the

01:11dynamic duo, so it is further confirmation that I indeed am Batman.

01:16You're Batman. I'm Robin. The female version. It's awesome. And I just, you know, as I say every

01:25week, I'm so very, very grateful for what you are exposing. So many people just, you know, hold in

01:33such high regard and adulation over some of these folks that honestly, when you really do a deep dive,

01:41which is what you've done, and you've had to live an experience that revealed growing up right next to

01:47the Branhamites and your grandfather and all of that, the involvement. Tremendous insight that you

01:55have, and you had to come free and clear, and now you're showing the world how to be free and clear,

02:00and what the truth is. This is important work. And it's interesting how much of it comes together.

02:05I've had probably five different conversations on different podcasts that kind of merge back with

02:12what we're about to talk about today, and it goes back to the statement that we made at the end of

02:18the last one. You were asking me about Jim Jones whenever he finally condemned William Branham and

02:24walked away. Jim Jones, the mass murderer from the Jonestown Massacre, was smart enough to walk away

02:33and realize that this is not a movement of God, yet look what he did. And, you know, going through

02:39that history, it's a little bit ironic. But Adam Short and I were talking about another, an email

02:48that he received from Bethel Church. And I read through it, and honestly, how do I explain? It's

02:55like if you go to the dentist, and the dentist has that little high-pitched shrill noise of a drill on

03:01your tooth, and it hurts your tooth really, really badly. When you walk away from there, any noise

03:07that has that high-pitched sound, you're tuned into it. You know that that sound is there, and the pain

03:12comes back. You feel it, even though the drill's not in you. Well, that's how it is whenever I hear

03:18these sermons by these ministers. I know, because I have been so under the spiritual abuse of Branhamism,

03:25I know exactly what they're doing, why they're doing it, and how they're doing it. And when I

03:31heard the sermon by Bill Johnson, honestly, when I read the email, I thought, no, this can't be.

03:37This can't be. He can't be doing the same thing Branham was doing. And then whenever Adam Short

03:44started talking through it in our podcast, I started scratching my head, and I'm like, wait a minute,

03:48no. And I go look it up while he's talking. I started reading through the sermon. I had heard parts of it,

03:53but I didn't hear the whole thing. And I got down through it, and I'm like, oh my gosh,

03:57this is exactly like a sermon that I grew up with. And he is basically taking Branham's boiler

04:03template, which we'll get into that, and we'll talk through that today. But ironically, what he's

04:10doing goes all the way back to the reason that Jim Jones left Branham. So in effect, if you really

04:16understand what he's doing, Jim Jones would have left Bill Johnson of Bethel and said, I don't want any

04:21part of this. Well, I want to hear about the Jim Jones fiasco and how this came to be. But there's

04:30no one more equipped or experienced to be able to discuss some of the things that Bill Johnson is

04:38currently implementing that you would hear it, but the thing is, others may not. And by exposing these

04:47certain doctrines of Branhamism, you're able to show that to this day, Bill Johnson is using these

04:58template, as you say, boiler points. And people might not recognize it because even pastors,

05:05if they have not studied this, if they have not really given themselves to understanding certain

05:10things, they wouldn't see it. And that's why your voice is so important. And once you see it,

05:15you can't unsee it. And that's what's happened to me. You know, the reason I've gotten so like

05:21passionate about telling the truth about these leaders is because you're one of the people that

05:28showed me the history of it, which I did not know, you know, and how it ties in with my own history.

05:34But when you think of someone like Jim Jones, well, I mean, so pretty shocking that he ties into all of

05:42this as well. Exactly. And it wasn't that many years in the past to our last discussion, we were

05:49talking about Joel Osteen, his father being in the movement. It wasn't that many years prior that Jim

05:55Jones was in the same movement that Joel Osteen's father was in. But anyway, so I pull up the sermon

06:01by Bill Johnson. And I'm looking through the letter, you know, reading through it as Adam is talking

06:07and the title hits you. It hit Adam very quickly. The title is Dead Men. The Dead Can't Sin. Bill

06:14Johnson gets into talking about basically one of the key templates for a cult, which is the idea that

06:23you can become perfect. Join our group. You too can become perfect. And essentially what he's saying,

06:29even in the title, it says it, that Christians should become like corpses in a morgue. They're

06:35basically zombies. Because what he's trying to accomplish is the idea that once you are in Christ,

06:42you are not sinning, which that part is biblical. But he goes a step beyond what's in the Bible.

06:48So what these guys do is they take a Bible concept, and they'll find passages and verses that have that

06:54Bible concept. And then they twist it just a little bit, where if you listen to it, you can kind of go

07:00both ways. Your head could go, oh, he's talking about the Bible verse. I'm reading the Bible verse.

07:05That must be what he means. But it's twisted just slightly so that the people who are less

07:11familiar with the Bible, they might go a step further than what the Bible says. And that's really,

07:18if you understand how cults work, and you understand Branhamism, that was the way it worked. You go,

07:24you twist it just a little bit, and hope that people go to a conclusion that you really never said.

07:30Because if they do that, and then the whole group through groupthink takes that leap, well, you enable

07:36a doctrine to come forward that you never really, you never really told them the doctrine, but then

07:42they start believing it. And in the end, you end up with a bunch of zombies, which is ironic,

07:47because his title is, The Dead Can't Sin.

07:51It's kind of disturbing, actually. And, you know, I think I know what he is trying to say, but

07:58they use Scripture, and this is what's so deceptive. They use Scripture so that there's

08:03a sense in the Christian, well, this is from the Bible, so we're reading a scriptural reference. And

08:09then, as you say, twisting it, taking it to a next level, almost like, you know, smoke and mere

08:17sleight of hand. And this is where the deception comes in. And it's so hard to actually see that

08:23pastors and leaders in this day and age revere these teachings of Bill Johnson. And yet, I mean,

08:32you can find all over the place that very well-seasoned Christian people are beginning to

08:41discern and stating such that Bill Johnson is not preaching a full gospel message as according

08:50to the Word, that there are additions. And, of course, we've seen how he gave his approval to a

08:55book on this mysticism and all kinds of nonsense. And what is he thinking? And then people call him

09:02out on it, and he says, oh, yeah, I'm going to get that removed, you know, my part from, yeah,

09:06yeah, yeah, yeah, but he never does. Like, he just associates himself with stuff that's, you know,

09:11odd. And as you say, take scriptures and then builds in extra. And we are not to add to the Word of

09:19God. That is a very specific requirement in the scriptures that we don't add or take away from the

09:25Word.

09:26Exactly. And for those who are listening, maybe you're listening and you don't understand the

09:30difference between that and scripture. The Bible does talk about, as a Christian, and because of

09:36the work on the cross, you're dead to sin's power, but you're not dead to its presence. And that's

09:42really the difference. That's how he's twisted it. He's trying to say that you're dead to the presence

09:46of sin. And it all comes back to this idea of perfectionism. In Branhamism and many of the flavors of

09:54different religious cults that emerged prior to Branhamism, there was this idea that you could

10:02become perfect. And because in your perfection, in the perfected state of the church, we would

10:08usher in the rapture. We, the people, not Jesus Christ. So the power to save really came back to

10:15the people, not to Jesus Christ. It was a different gospel, a different message. But really to unpack that,

10:22to unpack that, you really have to understand Christian identity and the themes of Christian

10:32identity that he is using in this specific sermon. And I say two birds with one stone because we have

10:39had commenters saying, can you please explain Christian identity a little bit more? I'll use

10:45the phrase and I don't understand it. Christian identity, to understand it, the phrase itself is

10:52not that bad. If you're a Christian, you want to identify as a Christian. But if you understand

10:58the implications of the Christian identity movement, it is quite a bit different. And

11:03their idea on how salvation comes and what you do with that salvation with regards to dominion

11:12are completely different than what is normal Christianity. And ironically, this ties back to what Jim Jones

11:20was leaving, which I'll get to that point later. There is a book by Michael Barkun that I recommend

11:27anybody who's wanting to learn more about it. It explains Christian identity very thoroughly. It's

11:34called Religion and the Racist Right by Michael Barkun. We talked about this, I think, in the first

11:39episode you and I did. In the beginning, it was British Israelism. And British Israelism created the

11:45notion that the people of the British Isles and United States and Canada were the descendants of the lost

11:5110 tribes of Israel. That's not so bad. It's a little bit odd. It doesn't match history. But what it implies,

11:59if you flip it to the negative side, if we are the ones who are identified as the chosen ones, then there must be

12:08some people who aren't the chosen ones. Kind of like Bill Johnson does in the sermon, which I'll get

12:14to, you preach down the path that's slightly twisted, and then there will be people who take it the step

12:21further. They will go to the logical conclusion that you're laying down. That happened with British

12:26Israelism. People started to, instead of focusing on the good guys, they began to focus on, well, who are the

12:34bad guys. And they started putting labels on people. Usually the blacks and the Jews were the ones who

12:39were labeled, these are the bad guys. And whenever the latter rain was breaking out at the Sharon

12:45Orphanage, this was a theme among the leaders. There were books published by founding members of the

12:52Sharon Orphanage that clearly stated, and I'm quoting, this is horrific, but I'm going to say it,

12:58that blacks were made in God's wisdom to serve whites. So that was the foundational, one of the

13:05foundational doctrines in this movement. How would this come about? They would tie it to the book of

13:11Revelation when it talks about mystery Babylon. They would associate that phrase with the blacks and

13:19the Jews. This mystery Babylon was going to rise into power, and we need to conquer this because we

13:25are the chosen ones. We are the ones who are descended from the lost 10 tribes of Israel.

13:30So we need to claim dominion over this. That's essentially the background for everything that

13:36I'm saying. To get there, what they did, this doctrine emerged that before Adam and Eve, before

13:44Adam's race, there was a pre-Adamic race that was the mud people. As weird as this sounds, it sounds

13:51like sci-fi from a very bad sci-fi movie. They taught literally that the mud people are the ones that

14:00mated with Cain's offspring and produced the black skin because the mud is black, the black skin turned

14:05black. So this was actually a prevalent idea in the early 20s, 30s, and 40s. A lot of people in

14:15Christian identity started to associate with this. What they taught was that in the Garden of Eden,

14:21the sin was not what the Bible says, that Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, and the serpent tricked

14:29them into eating it because they would have the power to know between good and evil. Instead,

14:36they changed it to a sexual sin. Eve mated with the serpent. The serpent produced Cain,

14:42and Cain's lineage were the bad guys, while Abel's lineage were the good guys. So there were two

14:49races of people, and whenever you associate this with salvation, salvation comes more to your DNA

14:57than it does what Jesus did on the cross. And that's where all of this really came. It unraveled

15:05for me when I was reading through and listening to parts of the sermon. Bill Johnson literally says

15:10that it is the DNA that changes whenever you become a Christian.

15:15You have the DNA of the Lord Jesus himself, the resurrected one, in you.

15:22You are qualified to live like Jesus, in absolute power and absolute humility.

15:30So interesting. So you can see how, like, that you can tie in scripture, but then you begin to

15:37understand that he ascribes to some of these teachings. And, you know, it's funny because,

15:43ironically, I was watching some clips of Todd White that had been put together, and Todd White

15:50is talking about how perfect he is, that he has not sinned. He has not lusted in 17 years.

15:56He has not had made it. He's basically perfect, you know? And, of course, the podcaster was saying,

16:05you know, that is some kind of feat. It really is, you know? Put that in a bottle somehow and sell it.

16:12And the thing is, is that then Todd White's close associates came out saying, the guy is the worst liar,

16:20you know, of all time. I mean, these are some of the things that are being said about Sean Foyt as well,

16:25that he has a character problem, that he exaggerates, embellishes, and downright lies.

16:30So this is what close people with Todd White say, while he is basically up there saying,

16:36I have reached that perfection, this perfectionism that is spoken of. Be perfect, you know?

16:41I've heard a clip from Joyce Meyer, and I tend to try to really love Joyce Meyer. I think,

16:48on the whole, she's not a prosperity teacher, even though she's gotten very wealthy.

16:51She, but she was saying, she was talking about, like, this being perfect thing. And so, you know,

17:01we all do our best to govern our actions and to present to God the best that we can to ask for

17:10forgiveness when we fail. But the human condition, I'm going to say it's pretty hard to say you're

17:16perfect, or that you ever, like, maybe you have a good day when you're in a coma, and you don't sin.

17:22But, you know, how many times, it's just little things, a bad thought, you know, the way that we

17:28just can't stand someone, or we're annoyed, or we have unforgiveness for a certain thing that we're

17:32battling through. All of this is the human way that we have to, like, get through this life.

17:38Darrell Bock Absolutely. I grew up listening to countless sermons

17:42on themes such as, I can't remember all the titles that they use, but it would be things like

17:48the mystical union of the bride of Christ. They like the word mystical, or the mystery of,

17:53they would use these phrases. And what they would do is they would take, like I said, they would take

17:58Bible passages, twist it ever so slightly, so that you could jump to a conclusion that wasn't in the

18:04Bible. Because if they can get you out of the Bible, then they can take you down the path that

18:09they want. This perfectionist doctrine is one of those doctrines. If they can get you out of the

18:14Bible, if you don't need Jesus to save you from the cross, if you can become perfect yourself,

18:20what it does, it takes away the need for Jesus and puts the power of salvation into the apostle or

18:27prophet or whoever is your governing body. It's all part of the manifested sons of God framework.

18:33There is a passage of scripture, I think it is in 1 John, says something to the effect that if we say

18:41that we don't have any sin, we deceive ourselves. There it is. The next words after that, I think,

18:47we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. So these people who are lying are literally making

18:53this verse come to life. And the truth is not in them.

18:57And the truth is not in them. But see what they've done there, they've twisted it ever so slightly.

19:04One of the twistings, there are Bible passages about how you become a new creature in Christ.

19:10And that's a good thing. If you understand what that means, you become a different person.

19:15The metaphors that were used in the Bible actually are used as weapons in the movement.

19:20They will say things like the new creature means we have a new DNA. We're a different person

19:25metaphysically. We are a different person down into the atoms of our body, which is exactly what

19:33Bill Johnson said here. He's saying that literally the Christian DNA is different than the people who

19:38are non-Christian. So back to the Christian identity problem. British Israelism taught that there were

19:46two types of people. There were those who are the chosen, those who are not. People took that leap.

19:52Then they started to claim that there are people who are the descendants of the serpent and Eve

19:58and the mud people. And people took the leap a step further. What they did to twist this was they

20:05would say that that new creature is different. If you understand the new creature, you get a different,

20:10you have a different DNA. You have a different, you are a different makeup. You cannot sin. So that idea

20:17started to creep in that you cannot sin and bred the perfectionist doctrine. And there are countless,

20:25I'm not a theologian, but there are countless problems if you just simply read it. It replaces all of the

20:31passages that are talking about how you need, how you're a sinner saved by grace, for instance. If you're a

20:38sinless creation and you're like a, like his words, you're like a zombie in a morgue and cannot sin,

20:45well, you don't need salvation. So come to our, come to our group, join our school of thought,

20:51and you don't need Jesus. Essentially, it's the path that you go down. And it all goes back to this

20:57idea of perfectionism, which is a carrot on the stick because humanity will always have its flaws.

21:02Wow. So this is very complex. And I think when you look at Bethel and its influence and all of the

21:15people that will still ascribe and speak so highly of Bill Johnson, it's that it's, it's being lost in

21:26the, in the, in the difficulty of having to, to really pull it apart so that you can see where

21:32the error is. And so this is important work. And, and it's not easy work because people get upset

21:40because they have their favorites, you know, and they, they don't like you putting down. I've already

21:45had one pastor friend basically telling me that, you know, he's just so angry because I criticized Bill

21:54Johnson. And I'm saying, well, do you ascribe to some of the things that he said? Well, he doesn't

21:59even want to talk about it, you know? So then there's nowhere to go except to make sure that

22:06we're understanding the truth of these certain issues, according to the word.

22:09So a few of our conversations with other podcasts have sort of laid a background for

22:15what we're talking about here that are really relevant. One of them is a conversation that I had with

22:21Bob Scott recently. Bob Scott was a former founder of the Kansas City Fellowship. He was Mike Bickle's

22:28brother-in-law. He and I were talking about the weird mixture of religion and politics today.

22:36And he said that really what, what we're seeing today goes back to the early years of the Seven

22:42Mountains mandate as that idea was being birthed. From its inception, the idea was that apostles would

22:49be the ones who were the heads of the top of those mountains. So instead of having the governing body

22:55of politicians that we have today, the apostles and prophets would be the one to lead. And Bob Scott

23:01was like, no, no, no. We have seen in history how bad things get when religious leaders try to take

23:07dominion and try to claim governing bodies over people. This never ends well. Throughout history,

23:14it never ends well. And if you understand the connection to the Christian identity movement

23:22in the way that they were also trying to claim dominion, trying to give the idea that there was

23:29a lesser form of human being out there, ones that did not share the same DNA. And it all comes back to

23:36exactly what Bill Johnson did here. We have a different DNA. So anybody listening to that sermon who

23:43understands that if there is a good DNA, there must also be a bad DNA. So people are going to make that

23:50leap who are listening. And Christian identity, they did. We have people who have a bad DNA, so we need

23:56to stop this problem. How do we do it? We need to claim dominion and push these people out. That was

24:02literally what was happening with the Christian identity doctrine. But the other verbiage that was used,

24:11it's a little bit scary when you think about it. The email that was introducing the sermon

24:17was also advertising some sort of a revival that they had prior that was pushing for the idea of

24:24radical obedience. So if you understand the concept of perfection and understand that there was this

24:32agenda behind the perfection, anytime there is a religious movement that is pushing an agenda,

24:39you have to control the people because they may not agree with your agenda.

24:44How is this control happening in cults? They create boundaries of fear surrounding the people.

24:51So they fear to think outside of this religion. You have to be radically obedient.

24:56That really hit me, if I could just interject. That's the kind of thing, that kind of terminology,

25:04it's very zealous. And I even remember that radical, the radical that's radically sold out and

25:15everything, which of course we want to be for the Lord Jesus Christ. But there's a measure here that is

25:21about control. I think it's absolutely about control. The fear is the way that you control

25:27people in a cult. Otherwise, why not just leave? There are no physical boundaries around you.

25:33Anybody who's in a cult can just walk away. The problem, and most people who have escaped,

25:39we've talked to them in the support groups, and we've had them share our stories on Fridays.

25:43When people leave, the very first thing they have to conquer is the fear of leaving. And that fear,

25:50it's powerful. People fear they're going to lose their families. Some of them lose their jobs. Some

25:57of them lose their benefits. But more than that, because they've taken the fear into the spiritual

26:05realm, people who leave a cult to go to a different Christian church and to still be Christian in another

26:12group, they fear that they're losing their eternal salvation. So it's a fear greater than death that

26:18they're pushing. All of that, really, the basics of what he's teaching in the sermon isn't exactly

26:24the boundaries of fear that I grew up with. So I'm listening to him speak, and I'm like,

26:29oh my gosh, I can't believe he's doing this.

26:30Beth Dombkowski Could you hear it, John,

26:32as you were listening to him? Could you hear the same phrases, the same sort of rhetoric,

26:38if I could put it that way? It sounded, it had the feeling of what you grew up listening to.

26:48John Absolutely. He did not use the same verbiage,

26:52but you could clearly tell that he had studied Branham, or he had been influenced by somebody

26:58else who did. One of the themes that I grew up in Branhamism was this fear that your mind might be

27:05leading you down a path that you might accidentally catch a demon. In Branhamism, this was the idea that

27:12unbelief itself was sin. So if you don't believe, that's sin. That was a theme that was all throughout

27:18this sermon. And if you really think about what that's doing, it's causing people to shut off critical

27:25thought. Because to think about something in a positive manner, and you want to study whether it's

27:31true or false, you have to study the negative of the positive. So critical thinking is,

27:37is this thing true? Well, let's examine everything that could make it possibly false. When you can't

27:43find anything to make it false, then it becomes true in your mind. So what they're saying essentially

27:48is, you can't do this, you can't think about it, unbelief is sin. And again, he didn't use the phrases

27:55that Branham uses out of the verbiage, but it was the same exact thing.

27:59To believe this, Jesus died and raised from the dead, but not to believe this

28:08is to voluntarily embrace the carnal Christian lifestyle. Because I'm living from an inferior

28:14reality. And I don't know if I'm forgiven, I just don't feel forgiven.

28:18Wow. So basically, it's like something that has seeped in. And I think in this time and era,

28:27what God is doing through your podcast and others who are looking at the little leaven that has leavened

28:35the whole loaf, that little leaven, that little bit of a twist, radical obedience, and then you see,

28:42then there's like, if you don't agree with us, then you are shunned, or you begin to get the cold

28:51shoulder. And that's why I heard about parents being upset when their kids returned from having

28:58gone to Bethel school, that their kids had this kind of self-righteous way, and it was bringing a

29:06division between them and their parents. And that's the subtlety, this pride, rather, you know,

29:13than, rather than, you know, teaching that we're on a journey, and that we need to listen to one

29:21another, and above all respect your parents, there's a certain something that's taught. So even kids,

29:27I heard this one story about kids that had, they tried to go to heaven, you know, at the Bethel

29:33school, and they would have, they would lie down all at the same time. And then they would try to

29:39make a trip to heaven. So some people who have been in the occult would be very upset about that,

29:45because there, there are these practices where you have out of body experiences, and you induce them.

29:52So they would take this back to the church. And of course, the church started freaking out,

29:57because they go to the young people's, you know, event, and they're all go, okay, let's try this,

30:01everybody. It's like, ah, no, no, no. And so these are the things that are being highlighted and,

30:08you know, and brought out. And when it's so subtle like this, that's why the work they're doing is so

30:13important to, to bring out that subtlety of the shift. Absolutely. And it's insidious how they bring

30:20all of this about. It's not that they openly say the things that they want people to believe and

30:26understand. Like this DNA thing that he's saying, when you listen to it, it's not that bad if you

30:34don't understand everything that he's saying in the rest of the sermon. He's saying basically,

30:39like the Bible says, you can become a new creature. But he takes it all the way back to the DNA level.

30:44You can have a different DNA. So that alone, like I said, it's not that bad. But combine it with,

30:52say, the manifested sons of God doctrine. This is the idea that Jesus, what he did on the cross,

31:00wasn't sufficient. We need people who become a manifested son of God in the end time.

31:06We become essentially little gods. And we're the ones to claim dominion so that we can create

31:11the scenario in which Jesus can come back. It's not that Jesus is returning as he promised. It's that

31:18we have to take control. We have to take dominion. We have to bring this in power.

31:23To get there, what they did in Christian identity, what they did in Branhamism, and essentially what

31:30what he's doing here in the sermon, they have to demote Jesus from divinity to become more like

31:38gods themselves. In other words, I'll bring Jesus down in power so I can raise myself up in power.

31:43The way that Branham did this was he said that Jesus, when he died on the cross,

31:49he was just a human. He was just a man. He could not have been God when he died for our sins,

31:55because you can't kill God, was his verbiage. He said that Jesus was basically the greatest

32:02manifestation of the Son of God up until that point in time. And then he went to heaven. So in the end,

32:10in the last days, there would be these manifested sons of God, and they would have the power of

32:15Jesus. They would do greater works than Jesus. They would have more healings, more miracles, etc.,

32:22because they would be the manifestation of Jesus. In other words, Jesus is coming back not as Jesus.

32:29He's coming back in the body of Christ, the people of the church, and we become little gods. We're the

32:35ones to conquer the earth. And what this did was this created this weird division among the people.

32:42Some people actually thought that this was the only return of Jesus. I've actually talked with

32:47people who thought, you know, you can do whatever you want in this world. We have seen Jesus already

32:53come back in William Branham and the people that were with him. The end of days that's talked about

32:58in the Bible has already happened. We're now living in the new millennium. That kind of idea began to

33:04flourish because if you take what is scriptural and you twist it slightly, people will go every

33:10different direction because you've actually taken them outside of the Bible. And that's what this

33:16movement has done. They've taken people outside of the Bible to become like gods. And like I said at

33:23the very beginning, if you go back to Genesis, the idea that the serpent was pushing on Eve was,

33:29you can become like God. You can know good and evil. You can do this thing.

33:33That's exactly what they're saying here. You can become like God. You can have a different DNA.

33:38You can be a manifestation of the Son of God. That entire theme of the sermon is exactly Branhamism 101.

33:47Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern

33:52Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic, and other fringe movements

33:58into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's

34:04website, william-branham.org. On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research

34:11of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper,

34:19audio, and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation

34:25on various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause,

34:30you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top. And as always,

34:36be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching.

34:41On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.

34:46You know, recently, so a slightly different religion perspective, the Catholics. So I had a very

34:55esteemed guest on that was going to be talking about one aspect that we thought would be helpful,

35:00you know, and relevant to hear from them in light of world politics and religion. And, you know, he's

35:06Catholic. So before the show gets started, you know, he had an opening. And I said, well, do I need to

35:15announce because in his bio, it basically had, you know, that, you know, his Catholic, I don't know,

35:23his, you know, his, you know, the, the reasons that he's important in the, in the Catholic Church.

35:30So he had all these titles. And I said, would it be okay if we could just have discussions as people

35:36that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and God, and just maybe, because I don't want to remove

35:40half the audience because they're like, oh, Catholics, I mean, Catholics don't have the right

35:44handle on this at all. And we'd be okay, you know, if we just kind of change this a bit.

35:49And he's like, well, sure, sure. You know, and, and he goes, you know, yeah, same Jesus,

35:54but you know, you guys don't really honor Mary or something like that. And so then it kind of brings

36:00it up. So we're not on air. So, all right, I'll play a little bit. And I said, well, you guys honor

36:04her as being like, that she was not human, that she was, in fact, like divinity as well. And I said,

36:13it doesn't say that in the Bible. And he says, well, she had to have been because she had Jesus.

36:19And I said, well, Jesus was fully God, fully man. And he goes, no, no, no, Jesus was God.

36:25And she had to be, she couldn't just have God, you know, in her, her uterus, because she is just

36:35a human being. And that can't be that just can't be. So we went down this little rabbit trail.

36:40And so in the same way that people want to ascribe these things that the DNA changes or

36:48whatever, I mean, other religions are using it to make that Jesus never had a human component.

36:55And so it gets all convoluted. And this is why we wrestle together. This is why we reason together.

37:02And at the end of the day, I said, well, let's not talk about it for sure, though. It's not in our

37:06Bibles. It does not say this. You have embraced this as a doctrinal kind of position of tradition

37:12that Mary is perfect when in actual fact, nowhere does it say that. So you're embracing,

37:19we can at least agree on that. And there's, okay, okay, let's be friends and let's get the interview

37:23done. You know, it was like that. But all of these things are things that are very important

37:28to wrestle with what the doctrines are, so that error does not happen. And that the fact is,

37:34is that the error that Bill Johnson brings is very close to how it's infiltrated into all of our

37:42churches, because people like Bethel, they like Bethel music, they like Bill Johnson, I've heard

37:47he's extremely personable. You know, so many people seem to have met him and know him. And I always

37:53think, well, that's not actually the issue. The issue is, what are we being taught that's true or

38:00untrue in the Word? Right. I've talked to people who were affiliated with Jim Jones and had, you know,

38:08in the early years, they would say that he was just a good Pentecostal minister. He was a great guy to be

38:12around. And it really comes down to the fact that when you're in a cult, your mind has been changed so

38:22that you can't critically think, the doctrine becomes the agenda, and you have to push the

38:27agenda. People often ask me, why is it that whenever I ask a question about some of the doctrines of the

38:34different cults, the people always, they want to attack my person. They don't want to discuss the

38:40doctrines. They want to attack me personally. Why is that? It's just a cult. Well, the problem is,

38:47you're not discussing the religion with them. You're discussing their agenda with them.

38:53They have an agenda. They want to push it upon you. If you do not accept the agenda,

38:58then you become a problem. You're an obstacle in their way. And so they'll do anything to remove

39:03that obstacle. And the problem is, like I said, you take something scriptural, you twist it just

39:10slightly. People who are listening, because they're not allowed to critically think, their minds will go

39:18the direction that you push them more easily than people say in a normal Christian church.

39:25And we've seen like the Christian identity idea, the problem that existed in the 1960s when everybody

39:32was turning against the races. You'd see these big signs, people holding the signs saying that

39:37the blacks and the whites can't marry. They're trying to keep the race pure. And this was a

39:43Christian identity, Christian, pseudo-Christian, I should say, notion that by keeping the bloodlines

39:50pure, by keeping the DNA pure, you are furthering the kingdom of God. If you allow these races to mix,

39:57you don't. William Branham would say that if a black person were to mate with a white person,

40:04the offspring, he used the word mongrel, which is offensive. But he would say that they can't enter

40:09into the kingdom for generations because that DNA had to be wiped out. The problem is people listening

40:17who take that into the wrong direction. I think I gave this example in the book, but there was a case

40:26where a father believed this idea that his DNA was good. Same thing Bill Johnson was pushing.

40:35But he took the opposite side of this. Okay, if my DNA is good, there must be a bad DNA. And he started

40:42believing that his children had the bad DNA. This man actually killed his children to wipe out their DNA.

40:49His name, you can look it up on the internet. It's Matthew Taylor Coleman that confessed to this.

40:55This was the premise behind Q, this serpent DNA thing. It's the exact same thing that was being

41:02taught in Christian identity. The serpent DNA that emerged from the sexual union between Eve and the

41:08serpent, that was the serpent DNA. So, John, do you think he's talking about actual DNA? I mean,

41:17if anybody looks at your DNA, it's going to be the same tomorrow as it is today.

41:22Okay. So, is he metaphorically speaking of this, would you say?

41:30See, that's how insidious this is. If you listen to that phrase alone, like I'll play that clip and

41:37I'll get people from Bethel saying, no, that's not what he meant. But the way that it is pushed

41:42into the context of the overall sermon, that's where it becomes problematic. This is a sermon about how

41:50even in the title, you become this dead person who cannot sin. You become more than human,

41:58essentially. You become a human that cannot sin, which is not something that's biblical. To get there,

42:05you have to have a different DNA. You can't be human. So, the entire premise of this sermon is that

42:12when you truly believe, when you cast out all your unbelief, you're going to come to the next level.

42:19And that next level in the manifested sons of God tier, you're going to become more like God. You're

42:25going to have God's DNA. And by default, if you follow that to its logical conclusion,

42:32those who don't go there with you do not have God's DNA. They have a different DNA.

42:36And this all ties into their thoughts on the end times and having superpowers and super apostles

42:43and prophets. And then there's the elite, you know, and you have to follow them.

42:47Right. They all become superhuman. And again, this is problematic. This is something

42:55that Jim Jones, I mentioned at the beginning of this, Jim Jones caught onto this. Jones was in his

43:02early years as a Pentecostal minister. He worked in the poor section of Indianapolis. Many of his

43:08congregants were black congregants. And so, he was very sympathetic to the needs of the black communities

43:15and became actually quite famous for this. The people's temple movement began to spread into other

43:21states because of the work that he was doing with the blacks. And there were even, when William Branham

43:27was advertised to come speak with Jim Jones, the black newspapers of the city were the ones who

43:33advertised it first. And so, this meeting among who they thought was coming in as a leader in the

43:40movement that Jim Jones was spearheading in Indianapolis, they thought that he would be one of the good

43:46guys, basically. Somewhere along the line, Jim Jones came into contact with the idea that Branham had

43:55been working with either white supremacy or Christian identity. And long story short,

44:03everybody in the convention learned that Branham was starting to teach the serpent seed doctrine,

44:11which is the serpent's DNA doctrine. Branham says something to the effect of 300 ministers rose up

44:18against him in one meeting. If you piece that timeline together, you'll find that many of the

44:25people, A.A. Allen was one of them who rose against William Branham, Jones, there were several different

44:31ones who came up and said, we want no part of this. This is Christian identity. This is white supremacy.

44:38I don't think that they yet had connected Branham to the Ku Klux Klan, but they had come in contact

44:47with his doctrines and realized that his doctrines was headed down that path. Whenever they approached

44:53him, however, Branham defended the white supremacy doctrine, and this had everyone up in arms. So,

45:00there are testimonies out there of several people who prophesied that William Branham would die,

45:08after this was exposed, which becomes really interesting when you think about the NAR today.

45:15Many of them who build upon Branham's ministry, they say that Branham was really good,

45:22and then in his later years, he fell astray. So, if you think about that, and you think about it in

45:27the form of a timeline, this was probably the point that they could say that this is where he went astray.

45:34It was the year 1957. Everybody rose up against him. We started prophesying that he would die,

45:41and he died. They usually say that. But what they don't tell you is that it was almost a decade

45:48later. It was 1963. He was working with Joel Osteen's father, and all of the ministers and the

45:56full gospel businessmen, all these people are working with Branham after they learned this Christian

46:01identity thing. So, you have to ask the question, what was it that actually caused them to think

46:07that Branham had gone astray, if it wasn't this? Because they were clearly working with him after

46:12they learned he was a white supremacist. And he did die a strange death, right?

46:18He did. He died a horrifically tragic death in a head-on collision in Texas. And I'll quote Jim Jones.

46:26Jim Jones was one of the people who prophesied against him. And he got the last name incorrect,

46:32but he's talking about an event where William Branham was there. He says, Billy Graham came to us,

46:38and he later changes this. And Archie, Imes, Jack Arnold Beam, and me in the Claypool Hotel.

46:46And he's referring to William Branham. He says, I don't believe in a thing in that Bible hardly,

46:52but it's the only way to make a living. And he says, Billy Graham, who I prophesied his death,

46:58and then he corrects himself. I mean, Billy Branham, rather. I said he'd lose his head and

47:04his head was chopped off in Texas. So, here's Jim Jones talking about William Branham saying that he

47:09doesn't believe the things that are in the Bible. And he says, Jones goes on to say, this is basically

47:17the greatest money train that these guys have ever been on. And that's when Jones left the movement.

47:22He left the latter rain and he started going down other pathways. This was the point in which many

47:27people started to split away. The irony of this split, which we probably can get to in a later

47:34podcast, they tried to go without Branham for a period of time. Christ for the Nations Institute was

47:42founded by Gordon Lindsay, who was Branham's campaign manager, who managed Branham's magazine,

47:47the voice of healing. There's a period of time for a few years where even that changed his name and

47:53Branham was fully excluded from anything in that publication. But what happened was the money

48:00started to slow down. The money wasn't coming in and the subscriptions were falling. Eventually,

48:07the entire movement realized that without Branham, we can't keep going. And so, the name was changed back

48:13to the voice of healing. Branham was invited back again. And all of this is playing out between the

48:20years that Jim Jones had left him and the years in which Joel Osteen's father, John Osteen,

48:27was working with him in Texas. So, there was a period of time where they thought, well, he went astray.

48:34The irony is that they came back because, apparently, there's more money if you have him in it.

48:40And there it is. So, could I just clarify? So, Jim Jones was saying that Branham, and he called

48:51him Billy Branham, is that right? That Billy Branham had said that, I don't barely believe anything in

49:00this book? Yes, that is exactly what Jim Jones was saying. And I've wrestled with that quite a bit.

49:07In fact, all of this that I'm talking through, I actually have on my screen. I'm working with the

49:12Jonestown Foundation. And if you go to Jonestown.sdsu.edu and just type in my name, John Collins,

49:20you can find all of these articles. The one that I'm referring to is called Enemy in the Camp,

49:26the inside story behind Jim Jones' 1957 prophecy of death. So, Jones says this, and I've wrestled with

49:34this. I've worked with the Foundation trying to unravel all of this history. I've worked with

49:40other religious researchers trying to unpack that. And when they read that, they scratch their heads

49:46and think, wait a minute. Many of the things that Branham taught wasn't in the Bible. And Jim Jones,

49:53who was being groomed to become a leader in Branhamism. He's working with the key. Basically,

50:00when Gordon Lindsay backed away, Jones and Mattson-Bose, Joseph Mattson-Bose from Chicago,

50:07became the strongest promoter of William Branham. So, the one who is within the inner circle of

50:14Branhamism is saying that Branham doesn't believe the Bible. How can this be? And I go back and forth.

50:20Did he? Did he not? Was he atheist? I do know that if you are a Christian, there are certain

50:26things that you can't do. And one of them is you cannot deny the deity of God. And yet, what we see

50:35in the sermon – and I'll play the clip for people who want to hear it – but he's essentially denying

50:41that Jesus Christ was divine. And I don't know of any Christian who can do this.

50:46This is also fascinating. And you know, again, John, I'm so very grateful for your ministry

50:53and for your courage because this is deep stuff that you got to dig. You got to talk to certain

51:02people who knew certain people who have documents and can kind of piece the puzzle of history together

51:11to understand what really happened. And this is the deep work that you do. And I'm so grateful for

51:17that because it is quite shocking, actually. You know, it just – it causes you to just pause and say,

51:23that's why we need the truth. That's why we need to understand, you know, what really happened,

51:29what was really said, what do people really mean when they say radical obedience. Those words,

51:36what does that exactly mean to you? It's a lot of work. And it's a lot of work to try to detangle

51:44enough to explain. For the audience who can't see what we're doing behind the scenes, there are times

51:49when I'll start rambling because there's a thousand different ideas you have to understand before you

51:55can really understand the concept. I'll start talking and then I'll stop and I'll say, well,

51:59let's start that over because it's not really clear. This is multifaceted. This is a huge mess

52:08of something that isn't biblical at all.

52:10I like spaghetti in so many ways. Yeah.

52:13It's worse than spaghetti.

52:15Right. You're pulling the pieces out to see, you know, what was said. And you know that Jim Jones is

52:19a bad guy, but what we're kind of figuring out is that Jim Jones knew that Branham was a bad guy.

52:25Absolutely. It's interesting.

52:30It is. I talked to a person here locally. This is where Branham's hometown is. My grandfather was

52:37the pastor at the Tabernacle, which I can ride to it with a bike. It's that close to me. I talked to

52:43a lady who escaped. Her and her husband escaped back in the, I think it was the 70s. And she remembered

52:50Jim Jones in this movement. And she worked, I guess I better not say where she worked,

52:56but she worked in a capacity to know that when the book The Raven was published, which is

53:04the strongest, most thorough examination of Jim Jones' life. When that book was published,

53:10it mentioned the connection between Branham and how Branham lifted Jones into power. When the book was

53:16published, the local cult – my grandfather would have been included in this – fought to keep it

53:22out of the libraries in this area so that the local cult community was not aware that William Branham

53:28had started Jim Jones. And her words to me, she did not know that that's why he prophesied his death.

53:36But she said the reason we left wasn't even Jim Jones. When we learned that he was teaching this

53:42serpent's DNA thing, we realized that if he got it wrong in the first part of the Bible,

53:49how can we trust anything he says in the rest of the Bible? And that's, for me, really the easiest

53:55way to explain this. If you have it that wrong in the beginning, how are you going to get it right at

53:59the end?

53:59Wow. That makes so much sense. And so grateful, John, that you pieced this all together to make

54:07it make sense to someone like myself and to those that are listening. I'm getting great feedback on

54:14the work that you're doing and what we're putting out together. This is so important. We have to do it.

54:21We have to just examine and pull it apart. It's important to understand the foundation, what was

54:29good, what was bad, and how, you know, once you get some bad stuff, and then you see it decades later

54:38in our current churches, this is where it's important to have eyes of clarity. For those who

54:47will see, let them see. And some won't see. But for those who will have eyes to see, we need to bring it

54:54forward.

54:55Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I hope I was able to explain it in a way that made

55:00sense. And for the audience who are asking about Christian identity, I know I just skimmed the

55:05surface of this. Go read the book from Michael Barkun, Christian Identity and the Racist Right.

55:10You'll have more information than you possibly want to know about Christian identity.

55:14Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me on your show again.

55:17It was fun. Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the

55:22web. You can find us at William-Branham.org and Laura Lynn Live. For more about the dark side of the

55:28new apostolic reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR,

55:34available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

55:52See you soon.

56:04Mariel...

THE DEAD CAN’T SIN: Bill Johnson, DNA Theology & Branhamism Exposed | Laura-Lynn Tyler Thompson 417

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