Zolak and Bertrand share their thoughts about the Patriots potentially trading for Bengals' pass rush Trey Hendrickson.
Thumbnail photo courtesy of USA Today Sports.
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Thumbnail photo courtesy of USA Today Sports.
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00:00The Bengals and Trey Hendrickson are nowhere close on guarantees.
00:06This was reported yesterday during the game last night, Monday Night Football.
00:13Adam Schefter said that the Bengals and Hendrickson have an agreement as to the duration of the
00:21deal and the annual average of the deal, but that when it comes down to the guarantees
00:26in the deal, the two sides are nowhere close.
00:29So they agree on the years, they agree on the total value, what they disagree with is
00:35really the thing that matters in the NFL more than anything else, which is the guaranteed
00:39money.
00:40That's it.
00:41When you sign a contract as a player in that league, your guaranteed money is the contract.
00:45Because as we know, teams can dump you on a moment's notice and move on from you and you
00:51never see much of the money of that total dollar figure they throw out there.
00:58The thing you're going to get is your guaranteed money.
01:01The Bengals went through this a year ago when they were dealing with Jamar Chase on, on his
01:06deal.
01:08And they were battling over it then because the Bengals are largely historically a stupid
01:15organization.
01:16They're not that smart and they're cheap.
01:19That is their MO.
01:20They're one of the cheaper teams in the league.
01:23So now they're dealing with Trey Hendrickson.
01:25And I would say they don't seem as motivated to sign Hendrickson as they were Jamar Chase.
01:31And I can understand why Jamar Chase is arguably the best player at his position, a premier position
01:38in the league.
01:39This is another premier position, but I don't think Trey Hendrickson is a universally accepted
01:45top three player at his position.
01:47No, it's not TJ Watt, right?
01:49But TJ Watt sort of went through this with Pittsburgh.
01:51Like we agree on the terms and the total of it.
01:54Then where are the guarantees that Pittsburgh ended up caving in?
01:56A lot of people didn't think Pittsburgh was going to do that, but they ended up doing
01:59it.
01:59The problem is too, he's 30.
02:03Jamar Chase is like in his prime.
02:05This guy still has prime years left, but look at the teams that are going to be interested.
02:10It's the teams that Cavs face like New England that didn't have a good record like New England,
02:14two, four win seasons would be the perfect spot for him.
02:17But when Mike Vrabel is totally looking at this thing, and we're really going to be probably
02:21a contender, meaning we're going to try to turn this thing around this year, get into
02:25the playoffs next year, maybe be a contender in three years, hopefully.
02:28You know, Drake Mays, what, third, fourth year?
02:30Fourth year.
02:32And I'm bringing this guy in.
02:33What's he going to be in 34, 33?
02:35You know, it's like the Judon thing.
02:36I don't think it matters.
02:38But Elliot Wolfe said yesterday.
02:40The win now, though.
02:40I'd like the thought of winning now.
02:42But they're open to a trade, right?
02:43They said they're open to a trade.
02:45They're open to talking.
02:46He said, we're talking to 31 other teams right now.
02:49Oh, really?
02:50You're talking to the Jets right now?
02:52Stop it.
02:53Get out of here with that.
02:5431.
02:55Don't you love that when they use these cliches?
02:57Yeah.
02:57We're talking to 31 other teams right now.
02:59It's true.
03:00There's communication.
03:02Shut up.
03:02No one buys that.
03:03Will you talk like a normal human?
03:05He's got a little bit of the Heimblum thing, by the way.
03:08I don't know if you guys have noticed that.
03:09Yeah, most teams do.
03:09Yeah, definitely.
03:10He's got, no.
03:11Some do.
03:12The nerds do.
03:13He's a nerd.
03:14They're all nerds.
03:15They've got a football nerd over there.
03:16We've got one of Milliken's guys.
03:17Elliot Wolfe is a...
03:18Milliken's an Elliot Wolfe guy.
03:20I'm labeling you that.
03:21Yeah, he loves Elliot Wolfe.
03:22He loves Elliot Wolfe.
03:22He's a Princeton guy.
03:23So, yeah, you're brought up in smart places.
03:25Oh, yeah, Gro.
03:26Yeah.
03:27Hingham guy.
03:27Oh?
03:29I don't Hingham.
03:30South Shore people know.
03:32They know what's wrong with Hingham.
03:33T-Bone?
03:34Nothing.
03:35It's a great place.
03:36T-Bone, you're not from Hingham.
03:38It's a lovely place this time of year.
03:41Yeah.
03:42Anyway.
03:43Princeton.
03:44Of course, he went to Princeton.
03:45Then daddy got him a job.
03:47Yeah, that tracks.
03:49That tracks for over there.
03:50Yeah.
03:51Nine minutes it took you.
03:51That's about right.
03:52Nine minutes it took you.
03:52To what?
03:53To offend what?
03:54To offend someone?
03:55To offend an entire town?
03:56Go to the front office.
03:57Just to get where you eventually get every day.
03:59Where I typically get every day, which is Elliot Wolfe.
04:02He's been off for a week.
04:03I know.
04:03I'm getting back.
04:04I'm getting comfortable again.
04:05So, he came out yesterday.
04:07He said he wants to make a deal.
04:08He's talking to all the other teams.
04:09They want to make a deal.
04:10We saw them last summer get aggressive and try and make a deal.
04:13So, Elliot Wolfe's track record in history will tell you he is genuine when he said,
04:18I want to try and make deals.
04:20He tried to make a big one.
04:21He swung big last year with the 49ers.
04:24Couldn't get a call back, but he tried.
04:26At least he tried.
04:28So, then last night you get this report.
04:29Armando Salguero.
04:31Long time Miami-based NFL reporter.
04:35Covered the Dolphins for years.
04:36Definitely a plugged in guy in the league.
04:39He said the Patriots inquired about trading for Hendrickson.
04:45And Jocena Anderson adds that the asking price is too rich for New England.
04:52So, they called on a trade.
04:54They talked about a trade.
04:55They were told what it would cost to get the deal done.
04:59They said, here's the price.
05:01Yeah, they're open to trading him.
05:03They will move him.
05:04You wouldn't give up two ones for him, right?
05:05They didn't hang up the phone.
05:06No, I wouldn't.
05:07Okay.
05:07I wouldn't.
05:08The conversation does start at a one.
05:10Would you give up a one?
05:11Yes.
05:11I would.
05:11Yeah.
05:12He's a premier player.
05:13They don't have a pass rusher.
05:14Like a true premier pass rusher on this roster.
05:16It's funny you mention this.
05:17And it's one of the things they lack.
05:19And it's the type of thing where you say, what's he going to be at 34?
05:21I say, I really don't care.
05:22Well, I care about 30, 31, and 32.
05:26I care about the next three years with the player.
05:28That's it.
05:29Remember Judon at the beginning when he first got here?
05:30Yes.
05:30He was a defensive player of the year type player.
05:32Yeah.
05:33In fact.
05:33That first half.
05:34So, I'm sitting there doing some production stuff on Friday before the game.
05:38And going through the roster, and then we look at some of the depth charts.
05:41I'm looking at the defensive depth chart when it's at full health.
05:44Like you're talking Gonzalez and Davis on the outside, Barmore at full health.
05:47Same thing with Williams in the middle.
05:49And you got Landry and Harris Blaine.
05:51And it's just on the other side.
05:52Keon White's there.
05:54Are they missing something else opposite like Landry?
05:57And I'm like, can you get one more edge guy?
05:59And then the stuff with Hendrickson pops up.
06:02Well, it hasn't popped up.
06:03It's been there.
06:04But the assumption is, I think, all along that, oh, they'll find a way to get it done.
06:08It's going to take it up to the season.
06:09And he'll sign by the end of August.
06:12Maybe it's irreparable.
06:13I don't know.
06:15I don't know.
06:16But I think you do have a need.
06:19Like the pass rusher part of it.
06:21I know Landry can get after it a little bit.
06:24But I'm talking like a Judon type player.
06:27Judon was a wrecking ball at Baltimore.
06:29He single-handedly wrecked the Titans, I think, in that playoff game.
06:31I remember watching it.
06:32But like Baltimore had some good guys across that front seven.
06:36I think they're still missing a piece in their front seven.
06:40This guy would be more than fitting a piece.
06:42This is different.
06:43And you've got space to do it.
06:46Again, didn't he talk about the quarterback being on a rookie contract?
06:49We've got the quarterback on a rookie contract.
06:51This is the time you do it.
06:53Not when you've got to pay Drake 50.
06:54If you're talking to the Bengals and you offer them your 2026 first-round pick,
06:59the pick that's coming from this year,
07:02shouldn't that be an attractive enough piece to be sort of the anchor of it?
07:06Rossini said they were looking for a player and a first.
07:08That was what the package is.
07:10Which player did they want?
07:11Duggar and a first.
07:12Duggar, Jennings?
07:13Duggar, Jennings and a first.
07:16So if they're looking for a first,
07:18why is New England not willing to give up the first-round pick?
07:21I mean, the 2026 pick is worth this player.
07:23They might be looking for two.
07:24They might be looking for a one and a two.
07:27We're just going based on the report.
07:28We're just going based on what she said.
07:31They want a first-rounder and a player.
07:33Sweet.
07:33You need to give them something else?
07:34You need to give them a second-rounder next year or something?
07:36I mean, you could talk about it.
07:37Because people look at the value of that first-rounder,
07:39but you also got to remember, like,
07:40this is an impact player you're just going to have on your team.
07:42It's already a proven guy.
07:43Oh, yeah.
07:43You draft a guy in the first round,
07:45even if you're picking at 15 or 16, there's no guarantees.
07:48Look at that nose tackle you drafted from Texas.
07:49I forget his name.
07:50Brown, right?
07:51We drafted him.
07:52Oh, yeah.
07:52Malcolm Brown.
07:53Kind of phased out.
07:54Fizzed out.
07:54Dominic Easley.
07:55He wasn't Vince Wolfark was my point.
07:57Yeah.
07:58Dominic Easley, another one, right?
08:00So, I wouldn't give up a one and a two,
08:02because if you're drafting well, like, you look at this year's draft.
08:04You got Will Campbell, and you got Travion Henderson.
08:07Like, if you're drafting well and you know what you're doing,
08:09you're kind of giving up your draft that year.
08:11I wouldn't give up a one and a two.
08:12I'd give up a one.
08:13Last five years, games played for Travion Henderson.
08:1615, 16, 15, 17, 17.
08:19Sounds good to me.
08:20He's out there.
08:21Grinding.
08:22He plays.
08:23Plays through it.
08:23And those guys get beat up, too.
08:2517 and a half sacks in each of the last two seasons.
08:28Whew.
08:31Yeah, I would take the next three years of that.
08:32I would like to see what years 30, 31, and 32 look like in a Patriots uniform.
08:36Mm-hmm.
08:37See, in the best case from a defensive guy,
08:38a defensive mighty coach that has major end point to his roster like Vrabel does,
08:43he's sitting there in his office looking at it, too, going,
08:45Jesus, if we could put Barmore and Williams in the middle.
08:47Spillane looks great running around in the middle.
08:50I know what Landry has.
08:51That's why I brought him here.
08:52Can't wait.
08:53This guy's got a good motor, but not sure if he's, like, ready to make that jump.
08:57Jesus, if we get this guy on the other side, how do you block this?
09:00How do you start it?
09:00Who do you slide to?
09:02We create problems for the center and the quarterback just by lining these guys up.
09:05Right now, you really don't have that because you could slide to Barmore.
09:08You could double Barmore if he starts giving you problems.
09:11Williams, we don't know what he's going to be yet.
09:14But this guy, you've got to account for him.
09:17This is who you game plan for.
09:18This is like what Brian Flores told Devin McCourty when they were talking to him in pregame.
09:23And I told my linebacker unit, if we were coming in tomorrow to play against this team in a real game, we're game planning to keep 32 out of the game.
09:31Like, this guy you've got to account for.
09:33Right now on defense, I don't know if you've got a guy you've got to account for.
09:35Maybe Barmore.
09:35I'm encouraged that they're checking in on this player.
09:39They should be.
09:39It's not, I don't think their number one need.
09:41I think their number one need is they still need to find a receiver for this team.
09:46A receiver?
09:47Yeah.
09:48Yeah, long term.
09:49They need a receiver.
09:50Long term, yeah.
09:51They might be okay this year, but they still don't have a one.
09:54Right.
09:54A true top half of the league, number one receiver for their young quarterback.
09:59They don't have it.
10:00I'm not telling you, Matt Collins is giving you 80 catches, but I'm pleasantly happy with what I've seen from him.
10:05Because I think, no, as the fourth guy in a lineup.
10:08Oh, okay.
10:08Reminds me of A.J. Brown.
10:10No, shut up.
10:11Mega drama.
10:12Don't put words in my mouth.
10:14We can do it.
10:14Yeah.
10:15Call in.
10:15Who's Matt Collins?
10:16Oh, Mike Evans.
10:18Sorry.
10:18Yeah.
10:19Let's go.
10:19Yeah.
10:20He was dead.
10:20Like, you know.
10:21I'm just saying.
10:22That's Brian.
10:22Hunter Henry and Diggs.
10:23Hunter Henry and Diggs have not played yet.
10:25Let's get them out in the huddle.
10:27Let's see what happens.
10:28All right.
10:29Let's pick it up on the other side.
10:30I'm glad they're in, but I'm just curious why, if the ask is a first round pick and a player,
10:35that they hung up the phone.
10:37And are they still calling?
10:38Are they still getting involved in this?
10:41And should they be in on the player?
10:42Some people think maybe they shouldn't be in on Trey Hendrickson, that it doesn't make
10:46sense for the Patriots.
10:48I think it does.
10:49I think they need a player at that position.
10:51So I'd be, I'd be enthused for them to do it.
10:55One of these rare occasions that I disagree with Taylor Giles, he wouldn't give up a second
11:01for him.
11:02He thinks they're too stacked at the edge position.
11:04Stacked with what?
11:05With, with what?
11:06I mean, Harold Landry.
11:07We're relying on Harold Landry.
11:09We're relying on Keon White.
11:10I mean, what are we talking about?
11:12It's like saying we're stacked at the receiver position just because we have seven of them.
11:15Right.
11:16I'm sorry.
11:16I know that Landry was a big free agent signing for Vrabel and he's one of his guys.
11:21Yeah, I don't care.
11:24Does he have a no trade clause?
11:25How does he like Cincinnati at this time of year?
11:27Right?
11:28I mean, what are we talking about?
11:29I can't believe he's arguing over a two.
11:30I think it starts with a one.
11:32It starts with a one.
11:34And they should be in on the guy.
11:35You want to trade for McLaurin or him?
11:37And I know McLaurin's older too.
11:38It starts with a one.
11:39And again, why do I care if he's here in four years?
11:42Why do any of us care?
11:45It's about the next two to three years.
11:47It is.
11:48That's it.
11:49It really is.
11:49That's how these deals work when you get a guy at 30.
11:51You have pressure to win that.
11:52You're going to pay him.
11:53You're going to overpay him.
11:54You're going to overpay him.
11:55You're going to give him a boatload of money and you're going to say, hey, we're giving you
11:58a boatload of money the same way we gave Milton Williams a boatload of money because
12:01you know why?
12:01We just lack talent on this team and we're looking for premier players and we're looking
12:05to be disruptive on defense.
12:06And I'm going to disagree on that second point about that doesn't turn you into a playoff
12:10team.
12:11It might.
12:12It might get to the 10.
12:13Really?
12:14Like if you have no.
12:15Look at the freaking Red Sox.
12:16OK?
12:17Like look at the division.
12:19Look at the American League.
12:20Look how bad some teams are this year.
12:22There's no given thing.
12:23I'm watching this game last night.
12:25Joe Burrow might die this year.
12:26Oh, man.
12:27Well, it gets the commander.
12:29Why is he playing right now?
12:30To be honest.
12:30And then they kept putting him out there.
12:32And I'm like, you suck me in on Monday Night Football in the preseason.
12:34Stupid team, guys.
12:35The stupidity there permeates the entire organization.
12:38They're a bunch of morons.
12:39Cincinnati had nobody to get after Jayden Daniels.
12:42They're the hardest team to root for.
12:43They are.
12:44Burrow's awesome.
12:45I love the guy.
12:46I do, too.
12:46But holy crap.
12:47I hate their team.
12:49I love Jamar Chase.
12:50I love Burrow.
12:51He almost got a horse collar tackle and broke his leg.
12:53That play where he's just running around was insane.
12:56Yeah.
12:57Yeah.
12:59So, like, that team could be a nine-win team.
13:03You know, you're talking about just being a wild card team.
13:05We're not talking winning your division.
13:07You show up to a game and you say, in our front seven, we've got Milton Williams, Christian
13:12Barmore, and we're going to throw in Hendrickson up front, too.
13:16With Landry.
13:17Experienced guy.
13:17Or white.
13:18Yeah.
13:18It's Spillane.
13:19But from what you've seen from Spillane, Spillane might be my favorite player in defense.
13:23He's a heat-seeking missile.
13:24He can run.
13:26He's not Bentley.
13:28I know that from just two preseason games.
13:30And I didn't watch him enough, and I didn't follow him when he was in the rest of the
13:32league with Vegas and with Tennessee.
13:34And if the corners are healthy.
13:35He got locked down.
13:36Holy crap.
13:37He got a really good defense.
13:38All of a sudden, you are talking about a top five defense in the league.
13:41And Woodson kid might be a home run.
13:42Seriously, that's within reach for this team.
13:44And Woodson kid's playing well enough right now that they just relegated Duggler to scout
13:48team.
13:50You're talking about a transformative team right now in one year on defense.
13:53You want a reason to believe in the team, and they go and do this, you'd have some real
13:57reasons to believe.
13:58That they are capable of double-digit wins because their defense is going to be so good.
14:05It is.
14:05I'd have a lot more believe.
14:06This year.
14:06I did look it up last night, though, and there's a bunch of data on it in terms of edge rushers
14:10and when they sort of age out.
14:12It's not great.
14:13It's pretty much right around 32 is there sort of a cliff there.
14:17That's why we're talking about two or three years.
14:20And you said it, but it's not a long-term thing if you're bringing him in.
14:24It doesn't have to be.
14:25You're not a good enough team to worry about, is this player going to last for five or six
14:28years?
14:29That's why I bring up Judon.
14:30He was an impact player when he first got here.
14:32And it's why they picked up the phone and called.
14:34Because they know it.
14:35And Elliott Wolfe said it yesterday.
14:37He admitted, without having to be forced into it, we got a quarterback on a rookie deal.
14:41They know it.
14:43They're aware of it.
14:44You got two years until you become a different roster.
14:47Yeah, because you got to pay your quarterback.
14:50Or you suck and you're starting over again with another new quarterback.
14:54That's an option, too.
14:55I don't believe that's the way it's going to go.
14:58No, but it's possible.
14:58But it's always on the table with young quarterbacks.
15:01Like he said, Cincinnati's a stupid team.
15:04Burroughs make it 65.
15:06The two guys on the outside are making 35 and 40.
15:08And you see how the rest of the team looks.
15:09You desperately need to win as many games as you can.
15:12You just got to win games.
15:13You've got to build something.
15:15For the now, because we want the team to win as many games as possible.
15:18Potentially be a playoff team.
15:20But in addition to that, if you want to continue to bring in players.
15:24And you want Mike Vrabel to last a long time as head coach.
15:28You don't do that by sucking again.
15:30Well, becoming an attractive destination again goes a long way as well.
15:33You threw a ton of cash at Chris Godwin.
15:35He said, no thanks.
15:36Iuk wouldn't call you back.
15:37At least it gets you back in the mix in terms of landing maybe a player that could be a difference maker on offense.
15:43And when I say that, I'm not just referring to this year, by the way.
15:45I'm also referring to next season.
15:47And you're better prepared to be a good team next season if this guy's on your roster.
15:51Simple as that.
15:52It's not just about your record in 2025.
15:55It's about 26 and 27.
15:59Two or three years of a premier pass rusher.
16:02That makes all the sense in the world for a team that is trying to come back from the dead.
16:09From the bottom of the barrel in the NFL.
16:11Imagine the type of message that sends to the room, too.
16:13Like, you know, the guys that were carryovers from two or three years ago, they all, like, look up to Duggar and look at him as, like, a team leader and one of the highest paid guys on the team.
16:22And all of a sudden, new coach comes in, new scheme, and he gets relegated to, like, scout team, and they're going to go out and bring a guy like this kind of impact player.
16:29And they already went after Williams.
16:30Like, holy crap, you're paying Davis $20 million a year.
16:32Like, oh, wow.
16:33They're doing something here.
16:34My favorite is this tweet from Daniel Jeremiah.
16:39He writes, with Drake May on a rookie deal, it makes sense for New England to be interested in trading for an expensive star player.
16:46Hendrickson or McLaurin makes sense.
16:49But I'd call the Cowboys first and shoot my shot for Parsons.
16:54I mean, hey, that I agree with, by the way.
16:56I was trying to get the Patriots to trade their first round pick this year for Parsons.
17:00It was fourth overall.
17:03I think you were out.
17:05One of the comps we did, and, like, the main comp is the Khalil Mack trade that happened.
17:10And that was two first rounders?
17:11It was two first rounders, a fourth, and he was the highest paid guy on the market.
17:15Great.
17:16Yeah, but, like, that's different.
17:18That's going to step up.
17:21Step up, and he's 26.
17:23Like, that is a dude that's going to be in your plans.
17:25Yeah, he's not 30.
17:26He's 26.
17:26If you want the long-term guy, that is the long-term guy.
17:30You're like, yeah, we traded for him.
17:32We gave up multiple first-round picks.
17:33And then we gave him the richest deal in history.
17:36And he's going to be here for the next eight years.
17:39Again, you've got two more years of control with May.
17:41Until he retires.
17:44Right?
17:44You can front-load that baby.
17:46Use up all that cap space.
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