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00:00:30Right now on MSNBC, a new twist in the Epstein saga.
00:00:37The DOJ says it's reaching out to Jeffrey Epstein co-conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell to try to set up a jailhouse meeting.
00:00:43That move comes as a major Trump ally runs interference amid the pressure for information.
00:00:49The House speaker delaying a vote on releasing more Epstein documents.
00:00:53Plus, the files the administration is releasing on the assassination of MLK Jr. against his family's wishes.
00:01:01Did they actually reveal anything new, though?
00:01:04And a new price tag for Trump's so-called Big Beautiful Bill.
00:01:08The not-so-beautiful $3 trillion it could add to our national debt.
00:01:12It's 10 a.m. Eastern, 7 a.m. Pacific.
00:01:17I'm Arielle Reshef, in for Ana Cabrera today.
00:01:20Thank you so much for spending some of your morning with us.
00:01:23We begin with breaking news in Washington this morning as the White House grapples with more Epstein fallout.
00:01:29Next hour, President Trump could offer his first on-camera remarks since the Wall Street Journal reported that he wrote that body birthday letter for Jeffrey Epstein in 2003.
00:01:38Of course, he's denying it, and new this morning in the face of mounting pressure for more transparency on the infamous Epstein case,
00:01:47the Justice Department has reached out to Glenn Maxwell, the late sex offender's convicted co-conspirator.
00:01:53But at the same time, Trump is opposed to a House vote that would demand the release of even more Epstein files.
00:01:59And despite some GOP support for the measure, Speaker Mike Johnson is aligned with Trump and seeking to delay any vote until at least September.
00:02:08Let's bring in NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba, NBC senior national political reporter Sahil Kapoor on Capitol Hill for us.
00:02:16Also with us, New York Times reporter Matthew Goldstein and MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin.
00:02:22Monica, let's start with you.
00:02:23Some of Trump's top Justice Department officials now say they want federal prosecutors to speak to convicted Epstein co-conspirator Glenn Maxwell.
00:02:31So what is behind this move?
00:02:32Yeah, and there are a lot of questions here, Ariel, about why now, why this meeting, and what, if any, information a meeting like this could produce.
00:02:42And it's really unclear because let's remind everybody that Ghislaine Maxwell was indicted and investigated under the first Trump administration,
00:02:50and she was convicted in the Biden administration.
00:02:53But if there were questions about any additional material or things that she could provide, a lot of that you would think would have taken place during the course of her trial.
00:03:04And if there was going to be any kind of a plea agreement, which there wasn't at the time, again, what kind of a question now would be different?
00:03:12That's what a lot of experts and what our own team, in terms of the reporting that we've done in the past, is raising here.
00:03:18But it comes at a moment where the administration and the president himself is under a lot of pressure to produce some new information
00:03:25because there have still been many calls from his own supporters, from those leading the MAGA movement,
00:03:31to uncover, in their words, the truth of what happened here, even though we don't know what that means.
00:03:37So you do have the deputy attorney general saying that he was directed by the attorney general, Pam Bondi, to schedule this meeting.
00:03:44And we're getting confirmation from Ghislaine Maxwell's own attorney.
00:03:49And you see there that comment from Todd Blanche.
00:03:52He writes, no one is above the law and no lead is off limits.
00:03:56But again, it's really unclear what kind of a lead there could be here.
00:04:00And then for her own part, her lawyer is confirming and thanking President Trump for trying to pursue this,
00:04:07trying to see if there is anything new here, if there's any light that could be shed.
00:04:11Though, again, she has been convicted.
00:04:13She was sentenced to 20 years in federal prison, which she is serving now.
00:04:18The question is, is there anything that she could provide?
00:04:21Or is this meant as a distraction at a time when the administration has been raising other issues
00:04:26to try to detract from the conversation, though this new meeting only adds a lot more interest in the Epstein case?
00:04:32So you saw there the lawyer confirming that this could potentially happen.
00:04:36She's been serving her 20-year prison sentence.
00:04:38So could Ghislaine Maxwell end up with a deal on this?
00:04:41I think it's possible, Arielle.
00:04:42And the reason is where we are in Ghislaine Maxwell's own timeline.
00:04:47Ghislaine Maxwell is currently petitioning the Supreme Court to review her conviction.
00:04:52That's a conviction, as Monica mentioned, that resulted in a 20-year prison sentence that was upheld by the Second Circuit.
00:04:58That's the Federal Appeals Court.
00:05:00And now, just as recently as last week, Trump's own Department of Justice saying Ghislaine Maxwell deserves to still be in prison,
00:05:09that she was not essentially a third-party beneficiary of the deal that Jeffrey Epstein struck many, many years ago with Florida prosecutors.
00:05:18That's a deal that was interpreted as to only cover Florida.
00:05:21That resulted in his prosecution by the Southern District of New York before his death and also in Ghislaine Maxwell's prosecution.
00:05:29It's so fascinating here.
00:05:30Matthew, you've reported on the Epstein paper trail and Trump's past friendship with him.
00:05:35So where does Ghislaine Maxwell fit into the puzzle here?
00:05:38Well, I mean, she was basically Epstein's main confidant for many years up until about 2009 or so.
00:05:46And one of her roles was to help recruit women and underage girls for Epstein.
00:05:52So she was very critical in, you know, the operation.
00:05:56And she was around all the time at the various different properties.
00:06:00And obviously there are pictures of her and she knowing the president.
00:06:04But, you know, one thing that's important to note is that she has maintained she's been innocent all along.
00:06:10She's been deposed and she's always indicated that she knew nothing about what was going on.
00:06:16And it would be a big break and turn for her to now to presumably cough up names.
00:06:23And even if she was to do that, the question is, would she have anything to back that up?
00:06:28I mean, just throwing out names is not usually what you need to do in terms of a plea deal.
00:06:32You need to offer up something to substantiate.
00:06:35And it's not clear she would she would have any of that.
00:06:38It would be fascinating to hear from her the first time since some of those civil suits against her.
00:06:43Sahil, GOP Congressman Thomas Massey wants to force a vote on releasing the Epstein files.
00:06:48But House Speaker Mike Johnson opposes that.
00:06:50He wants to push it off until at least after the August recess.
00:06:54Where do things stand and what's the earliest we could see any potential movement on this?
00:06:58Well, things are a bit of a mess here, Ariel.
00:07:00The House is largely frozen.
00:07:01The Rules Committee, which sends bills to the floor, had to cancel business yesterday because they can't find the votes to move forward with any of the business that Republican leaders want.
00:07:11The simple reason is that Democrats plan to offer amendments requiring the disclosure and release of files related to Jeffrey Epstein.
00:07:18A bunch of Republicans want to vote with them.
00:07:20And House Republican leadership can't allow that because that would go against the wishes of President Trump.
00:07:24So all they can vote on right now are bills requiring a two-thirds majority, so-called suspension votes, things like renaming the post office.
00:07:31They don't have a lot of those to do.
00:07:33So there's already talk at this point of cutting short business in the House this week and just sending members home for an extra few days for the entire month of August and coming back in September and dealing with this.
00:07:43Is that going to make a difference?
00:07:44Well, take a listen to what Congressman Tom Massey, who authored the resolution to require the release of Epstein files, said about that.
00:07:50So what will happen is, over the August recess, I think momentum will build for transparency.
00:07:59I don't think this is going to go away.
00:08:01And I think when we return in September, we'll get phase two of the Epstein files because we'll get, I believe, every Democrat and at least a dozen Republicans who want transparency and justice.
00:08:15Now, that dozen Republicans is key because he's using a discharge petition to get around House Republican leadership and force a vote against the will of Speaker Johnson, against the will of President Trump.
00:08:26And at least some Republicans this morning say it's inevitable.
00:08:28These files are going to come out, but they would prefer that the Trump administration does it on their own.
00:08:32So clearly some infighting there.
00:08:35Monica, the White House trying to walk a pretty fine line here, pursuing new avenues to get some of this information out on Epstein,
00:08:42but clearly stopping very far short of what some of his, President Trump's constituents may want, a full dump of all these files.
00:08:49How are these mixed messages playing out with the MAGA base?
00:08:52Yeah, it has certainly been fascinating and really complex to watch because many in the MAGA base are calling for a non-existent client list.
00:09:01And they have been really clamoring for that since this started.
00:09:04And it was the own Department of Justice under the president now and Attorney General Pam Bondi, who says that no client list exists,
00:09:12that instead, when she was referring to that on a Fox News interview earlier in the year, that she was talking about the totality of those documents.
00:09:20Then you had President Trump say that he wanted to direct her to release any relevant grand jury testimony that could be related to this.
00:09:28But that, of course, has to go through a court process.
00:09:32It has to go through a bunch of legal hurdles.
00:09:34And it's unclear whether anything that could be declassified and shared would shed any new light on this.
00:09:40And we also know, Ariel, that a lot of this information is related to minors and to the victims,
00:09:47those who were, again, the victims of convicted sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein and his co-conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell.
00:09:54So there are, again, not many indications that there could be new information.
00:09:59But that doesn't mean that anything has certainly quelled the desire from his own supporters to see what else could be out there with this conspiracy.
00:10:07So on that point, Lisa, what is the danger?
00:10:10Obviously, there's the potential to re-traumatize some of these victims who may be in that jury, grand jury assessment.
00:10:16Well, it's not just the re-traumatization of them.
00:10:19But there are laws on the books now that protect against the release of their information.
00:10:24And I'm not just talking about their names.
00:10:26I'm talking about any information that could be used to identify them.
00:10:30The last wave of unsealing of materials in a civil Epstein-related case resulted in a bunch of victims coming forward saying,
00:10:39I feel that I am in danger if you release my name.
00:10:42It's not just a question of my mental health.
00:10:44My physical safety is at risk, too.
00:10:47But I also want to say to some folks who have been critical of my saying that victims' rights are at issue here because I have said that the redactions aren't enough.
00:10:55Imagine that you gave testimony in a matter like this.
00:10:58And they cover up every mention of the word Ariel Reshef and your address and maybe other things that people could use to identify you.
00:11:06When that is in the public domain, you know that that's about you.
00:11:10You hear every news channel, every publication talking about you.
00:11:15And the risks to victims' mental health here should not be undermined at all.
00:11:21It is real.
00:11:21It is serious.
00:11:22The fact that we aren't talking to victims but talking to each other is a reflection of how much they want to stay under the radar and protected right now.
00:11:30And they thought their identities would stay under the radar with all of this under seal.
00:11:34Matthew, on your reporting on the Epstein money trail here, the top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee says Epstein sent over a billion dollars in wire transfers.
00:11:43And that should have piqued some interest from banks at the time.
00:11:46Where was all that money going?
00:11:47Who was he paying out?
00:11:49And what was he paying for?
00:11:50Yeah, I mean, that's basically this kind of operation required a tremendous amount of money and inflow because you have properties all over the world where he was taking women and girls.
00:12:02You know, the banks did – there was like J.P. Morgan, which was his bank for a long time.
00:12:07There was some awareness of what was going on.
00:12:09But the reality is that Epstein was bringing in a lot of business for these banks in terms of clients.
00:12:16He also was bringing in a lot of businesses himself in terms of the transactions.
00:12:20It was generating a lot of fees.
00:12:22You know, it's a sad statement to some degree that Wall Street sort of wanted to look the other way when they could because he was a powerful person and valuable to them.
00:12:33You know, it's a great mystery still what he was really doing in terms of the tax advice he provided people.
00:12:39But we do know that people like Liam Black, the private equity billionaire, paid him over $158 million for tax advice.
00:12:46You know, the thing is, all this stuff may be purely innocent in the sense of what was going on.
00:12:53But it does raise a lot of mystery and it shows, like, there needs to be better checks and balances in terms of Wall Street and monitoring its behavior and how its money goes around.
00:13:04And sex trafficking is supposed to be something they're supposed to be on the lookout for.
00:13:07Yeah, that was a lot of money floating around.
00:13:09Matthew, were those transactions ever investigated as part of the various Epstein criminal probes?
00:13:14Some Republicans are now saying, why didn't some of the leadership then press President Biden's administration to release the information?
00:13:22Yeah, it's not.
00:13:25I mean, the money transactions have never really come up.
00:13:28They certainly didn't come up in Maxwell's case and did not come.
00:13:31They weren't mentioned in the indictment against Epstein.
00:13:34If he had lived and if he had gone to trial, it's presumably possible some of these money transactions may have come up since it was his operation.
00:13:42You know, you can have a separate idea, like, why were the banks themselves not looked at?
00:13:46You know, we've seen, obviously, money laundering cases brought against banks.
00:13:52The only bank that ever paid any penalty was Deutsche Bank, which was investigated by the New York Department of Financial Services.
00:14:00You know, it's a good question, like, whether regulators, did they fall down on the job and other federal authorities on looking at the money flows?
00:14:09You know, I think that's a legitimate question to be asked.
00:14:11Well, nothing is quieting this story anytime soon.
00:14:14Monica Alba, Sahil Kapoor, Matthew Goldstein, and Lisa Rubin, we thank you all.
00:14:18Up next, the files the administration did release on MLK Jr.'s assassination, despite his family's opposition to this.
00:14:26Why our next guest warns this isn't about transparency, it's about distraction.
00:14:31Plus, tariffs pumping the brakes on one major auto company's earnings, what is signaling about larger economic fallout.
00:14:38And new details about that close call in the skies.
00:14:42It is terrifying.
00:14:43A B-52 bomber and a SkyWest flight.
00:14:45We're back here in 90 seconds, so we hope you will be, too.
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00:16:21The Trump administration releasing 200,000 pages of previously sealed documents, but not the ones that you might expect this week.
00:16:33The release involves records related to the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.
00:16:38The Trump administration hailed the move as a major step toward transparency, but Dr. King's two living children opposed the release of the documents.
00:16:46And civil rights leaders, including my next guest, say it's a distraction from growing calls to release files about Jeffrey Epstein.
00:16:52Joining us now, National Action Network President Reverend Al Sharpton.
00:16:57He's also the host of Politics Nation right here on MSNBC.
00:17:00Rev, thanks so much for being with us.
00:17:02So you are close friends with the King family.
00:17:04They didn't want this to happen.
00:17:06And they didn't want this document dumped.
00:17:07And you've said that this is not about transparency.
00:17:09So what do you think it's about?
00:17:10I think it's a distraction or attempted distraction from the Epstein files.
00:17:17The King family, I work closely with Martin Luther King III, Reverend Bernice King and his sister, who's kept the King's synagogue on.
00:17:26They had said that they wanted to go through the files.
00:17:30And we're in the process of doing that.
00:17:31Because you must remember, a lot of these files were done by J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI in the 60s, where there was a real plan by them to dislodge the civil rights movement, come out with salacious lies on Dr. King.
00:17:47And they wanted to make sure that these files were not contaminated by this kind of distortion of their father.
00:17:55Then all of a sudden, they dropped the files.
00:17:58200,000 plus pages.
00:18:00Now, you'd have to ask yourself, even the most objective person, why would you want to drop files that were sealed in 77, that were not supposed to be unsealed for another couple of years?
00:18:10Why would you drop that many files now, but you can't drop the files on Epstein, which is just a couple of years ago?
00:18:18You're talking about, well, maybe we'll do the grand jury minutes.
00:18:21Why not all the Epstein files, but you'll give all the King files, despite the fact you know there may be distorted and untrue information in them?
00:18:32Obviously, precarious timing in a lot of people's eyes.
00:18:35Historians are just now starting to comb through this trove of files.
00:18:38200,000 pages here.
00:18:40A leading biographer for Dr. King himself telling the New York Times his initial assessment, essentially, is that there's not much new here.
00:18:47But is there anything that you believe might be useful to the public?
00:18:50I mean, clearly, if they come up with the fact the family has always felt that James L. Ray was not acting alone and may not have been involved,
00:18:59who was the one convicted and went to jail for killing of Dr. King, if that were to come out from this file, that would be new.
00:19:08But I am more concerned as one who grew up in the King movement in the north.
00:19:13I'm from New York.
00:19:14Most of the movement was in the south.
00:19:15But when I was 13, I became youth director in New York of the economic arm of his organization, Operation Breadbasket.
00:19:22We always knew there was a plot to get Dr. King, and that was ultimately happened in 68.
00:19:30I was only 13 years old, but I was already involved.
00:19:33We always knew there was plots to try to avert other parts of the civil rights movement.
00:19:38So to have this, especially at this time, just drop like this is very disturbing to us.
00:19:43But more than us, the personal toll that takes on the family, Bernice and Martin lost their father.
00:19:53Martin's daughter, who was the only grandchild the kings would have had, Bernice's niece, never would meet her grandfather.
00:20:00So now they've got to relive all of this and live in this anxiety of what they will try to do to his reputation that they tried to do in life.
00:20:08What lies is just something that is beyond the pale.
00:20:11And I know what's really important to the family here is to maintain that historical context that you mentioned,
00:20:16what the FBI was up to at the time, their perspective on Dr. King.
00:20:20So how important is the historical context as people maybe try themselves to comb through what's been released?
00:20:27It's very important, the historical context.
00:20:30Let's not forget this is a man that led a movement that made America a full democracy,
00:20:35the Voting Rights Act of 65, Civil Rights Act of 64.
00:20:39So this is not just some celebrity.
00:20:43This is a man that was a consequential figure in world history, Nobel Prize winner.
00:20:49And to just reduce this to can we find some dirt so that we can cover what we all know is dirty in the Epstein case.
00:20:57We don't know how involved the president was or was not.
00:21:00I'm not making that accusation.
00:21:01But it seems to me that he has found a way to get everybody's files out or at least others' files out.
00:21:08But this why don't we have the same openness with the Epstein files that you're not doing to Dr. King,
00:21:14a man who gave his life for this country.
00:21:16Yeah, we just saw that tweet from Bernice saying now do the Epstein files.
00:21:20So she's clearly saying there's more to this than just releasing this information about my family member.
00:21:25Reverend Al Sharpton, we appreciate you as always.
00:21:27And you can catch Rev on Politics Nation weekends at 5 p.m. Eastern right here on MSNBC.
00:21:33Up next, meat price markup.
00:21:36Why the price for your summer barbecue is on the rise with beef prices at historic levels.
00:21:42And speaking of beef, but let's talk about the political kind.
00:21:44And no one spared by Hunter Biden in his first post-election media blitz,
00:21:49including former President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and George Clooney.
00:21:53Plus, new fallout from that scary close call between a B-52 bomber and a SkyWest Airlines flight.
00:22:00What's happening in our skies?
00:22:02Let's talk about it coming up.
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00:26:35This morning, a new warning about the impact of President Trump's tariffs on big business.
00:26:43General Motors revealing it took a $1.1 billion hit because of those tariffs,
00:26:49with the auto giant's second quarter profit shrinking by 35%.
00:26:52Joining us now, the best in the business, NBC News senior business correspondent, Christine Romans.
00:26:57Christine, what's the significance of this news,
00:27:00and what does it say about how other companies will navigate this?
00:27:02I mean, it just shows you when you've got a big, globally integrated industry like the auto industry,
00:27:07how the tariffs are going to change their business.
00:27:09And the company's scrambling to say that it's trying to mitigate its tariff exposure where it can.
00:27:14But a $1.1 billion hit in just one quarter,
00:27:19that shows you how big this trade shift from the president will be on this industry and many others.
00:27:24Yeah, and let's talk about another industry.
00:27:25People are paying a very high price for beef as they're barbecuing over the summer.
00:27:29So what are people paying exactly, and what are you seeing that's behind this spike?
00:27:34I think a lot of people have noticed this.
00:27:35You know, people are exhausted by inflation and the high cost of living.
00:27:38For the first time in history, you have ground beef prices above $6 a pound,
00:27:43steak prices up 8% from last year to about $11 here.
00:27:48And a couple of things are going on here.
00:27:49You have smaller herd sizes.
00:27:51You've had some tough weather, drought weather,
00:27:55that means there's not as many acres for cattle to graze.
00:27:58You've had high interest rates and inflation that have hurt some of these farms.
00:28:01So the USDA is expecting you could see these beef prices,
00:28:05beef and field prices, up 6.8% for the year.
00:28:07Ooh, that's a lot.
00:28:08Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal is painting a bit of a rosier picture about our economy,
00:28:12saying that it's getting its swagger back.
00:28:13There's consumer spending that's up right now.
00:28:16What do you attribute that to, and do you agree with that perspective?
00:28:18And record highs in the stock market.
00:28:20Look, the U.S. economy was really resilient coming into this year.
00:28:23The Fed had achieved this so-called soft landing, right, from high inflation, 9% inflation.
00:28:29And you've had an economy that has really absorbed so many of the body blows of the on-again,
00:28:34off-again trade wars and the like.
00:28:36So it's really been remarkable.
00:28:37There's still some concern down the road.
00:28:39We're not quite sure what's going to happen, when and if and how big the tariff higher prices hit will be.
00:28:44But it seems like, at least for now, there are so many parts of the supply chains that are absorbing the tariffs,
00:28:50and that is actually kind of softening the blow for now.
00:28:53It hasn't been the recession warnings you had from some economists and big banks earlier this spring have just not come true.
00:29:00Never a dull moment for you, Christine Romans.
00:29:02We appreciate you.
00:29:04The FAA now investigating a close call in the skies above North Dakota.
00:29:08The pilot of a SkyWest flight forced to make a fast, very aggressive maneuver after a B-52 bomber flying over a nearby fare appeared in its flight path
00:29:18as the Delta regional plane was coming in for a landing at the airport there.
00:29:22Take a listen to how one passenger described the quick move by that pilot.
00:29:28I just remember the plane going, like, sideways like that and just looking straight out the window and just seeing grass.
00:29:34Like, you weren't seeing the skyline anymore.
00:29:36It was just, we were completely sideways.
00:29:40Ooh, not what anyone wants to imagine or be part of.
00:29:43Let's bring in NBC News senior national security correspondent, Courtney Kuby.
00:29:47And, Courtney, the pilot actually told his passengers,
00:29:50nobody told me about it when he was referencing that large B-52.
00:29:53What have we learned about the air traffic control in that area
00:29:56and how this bomber made it into commercial airspace, into that flight path?
00:30:03Yeah, and, Ariel, you really, you hit the nail on the head here
00:30:05because the big question is if the commercial aircraft and the military aircraft,
00:30:10if neither of them was aware of the fact that the other could be in close proximity,
00:30:15then that really points all fingers back to air traffic control,
00:30:19who are supposed to essentially be guiding traffic in the skies.
00:30:22Why did neither of those aircraft know the other one could be either at the same altitude
00:30:27or at a close enough lateral distance that could pose a threat?
00:30:31The pilot was pretty candid with the passengers after they landed,
00:30:35after this very aggressive maneuver, explaining exactly what happened
00:30:38and why he took the moves that he did.
00:30:41Here's what he had to say.
00:30:41I looked over and saw the airplane that was kind of coming on a converging course with us.
00:30:48And so, given his speed, it was the military.
00:30:51I don't know how fast they were going, but they were a lot faster than us.
00:30:53And I felt it was the safest thing to do to turn behind it.
00:30:55So, sorry about the aggressive maneuver.
00:30:57It caught me by surprise.
00:30:59This is not normal at all.
00:31:01And thank you for having me today.
00:31:02It was kind of, not a fun day at work.
00:31:05Ariel, you can hear there, the passengers seem pretty pleased with the fact that they
00:31:13were able to escape without any real harm there.
00:31:16But it does open up the question of how this could happen.
00:31:20How is it possible that this military aircraft, which was on a pre-approved FAA-approved flight
00:31:26plan, and an aircraft, a civilian aircraft that was approved for landing, could have come
00:31:32anywhere close enough to require a maneuver like that?
00:31:34Yeah, and you heard the pilot himself say, this is not normal at all, not necessarily
00:31:39what passengers want to know.
00:31:41This comes just months, though, after, of course, that tragedy above Reagan National in D.C.
00:31:46It just feels, like, to so many people, like these close calls keep happening more and more.
00:31:51Is this just, like, a perception thing, or is there really a growing problem in the skies?
00:31:57Yeah, it's definitely true that we're seeing, with cell phones, we're seeing more information
00:32:02about these close calls.
00:32:04And in often cases like this one, there's cell phone video or there's audio of the pilot
00:32:08speaking about it.
00:32:09So that probably provides a little bit more attention to incidents like this.
00:32:14But Ariel, you're absolutely right that there have been a series of these close calls, including
00:32:20that deadly accident in January just over by Reagan National Airport nearby.
00:32:27And so it's definitely getting more attention.
00:32:30The real question now is, will anything come from these close calls?
00:32:34The FAA is looking into this.
00:32:36But we haven't heard a whole lot out of the Pentagon, as this has now been a number of
00:32:40these sorts of incidents just in 2025 under the Trump administration.
00:32:44Yeah, and we should just say praise to that pilot who acted so quickly in the midst of that
00:32:49scare.
00:32:50Courtney Kuby, thank you.
00:32:51More breaking news now from Washington this morning.
00:32:54As the Justice Department reaches out to convicted Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell, Congress
00:32:58is also angling to hear from her as well.
00:33:01Members of the Oversight Committee just took a key step towards forcing Maxwell to testify
00:33:06in front of Congress.
00:33:07NBC's Sahil Kapoor back in front of the camera for us.
00:33:10Sahil, where do things stand right now?
00:33:13Yeah, a notable little twist here.
00:33:14A House Oversight Subcommittee just voted moments ago to approve a motion offered by the Republican
00:33:20Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee that would direct the committee chairman, James
00:33:25Comer, to issue a subpoena for Ghislaine Maxwell.
00:33:28Now, Burchett offered this motion at the beginning of an Oversight Subcommittee meeting.
00:33:32He didn't give details about why this, why now, but it does show that tensions are high.
00:33:37Republicans are dissatisfied.
00:33:39This issue is not going away.
00:33:40They're having problems in the Rules Committee.
00:33:42They're having problems getting bills to the floor, and, you know, Republicans are demanding
00:33:46more transparency on this issue from the administration, and clearly now there's a desire to hear
00:33:50directly from Ghislaine Maxwell.
00:33:53Now, one of two things has to happen here in order for the subpoena to actually be issued.
00:33:57Either the chairman of the committee, James Comer, also a Republican, a close ally of Trump,
00:34:01issued it himself, or the full Oversight Committee has to vote in order to move this forward.
00:34:06We have reached out to the committee.
00:34:08We don't exactly know what they're going to do next.
00:34:11This news coming to us from our colleague, Kyle Stewart.
00:34:14Ariel?
00:34:15It'll be quite a scene if we see Ghislaine Maxwell there in front of Congress.
00:34:19Sahil Kapoor, we know you'll continue to monitor it for us.
00:34:23Next, a new price tag for Trump's so-called Big Beautiful Bill, which, according to fresh
00:34:28projections, could add a whopping $3.4 trillion to the national debt.
00:34:33The new pressure it puts on Republicans to sell this bill ahead of the midterms.
00:34:36Plus, next hour, inside what aid groups say is a growing hunger crisis and concern about
00:34:42the Israeli hostages with the new IDF moves inside the beleaguered enclave.
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00:39:203.4 trillion dollars expected to be added to the national debt, and 10 million people
00:39:30kicked off their health insurance.
00:39:31Those are the latest estimates from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office about the impact
00:39:36of President Trump's so-called Big Beautiful Bill.
00:39:39And despite bold predictions that the bill will gain House seats for Republicans from House
00:39:43Speaker Mike Johnson, the mega bill is still looking pretty unpopular with American voters.
00:39:48Take a look at these recent polling numbers.
00:39:5161% disapprove, according to CNN, and 55% according to Knipiak.
00:39:57That is Trump's approval rating on so many core issues remains underwater.
00:40:01Take a look here at that polling.
00:40:03Let's bring in NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Julie Sirkin, along with Republican strategist
00:40:08Susan Del Perseo, oh my goodness, and Democratic strategist and professor of practice
00:40:16at Columbia University, Basil Smeichel.
00:40:18Both are MSNBC political analysts, and we're so grateful for them.
00:40:22Julie, start us off here.
00:40:23The Congressional Budget Office putting out those new projections on Trump's so-called
00:40:27Big Beautiful Bill.
00:40:29What more are we learning here?
00:40:30Well, the numbers that the Congressional Budget Office has updated in their new projections
00:40:34aren't too far off the numbers that we've been seeing that Republican lawmakers considering
00:40:39this bill have been seeing for weeks.
00:40:41And the numbers are bleak, and certainly it is reflective in the polling that we've seen
00:40:45specifically on those social safety net benefits.
00:40:49The CBO projecting 10 million people could be kicked off their health coverage.
00:40:53I saw this firsthand, just the worries about this in rural and underserved communities,
00:40:57specifically in Missouri.
00:40:59That's why Senator Josh Hawley, for example, was ringing the alarms on this.
00:41:02That's why he's introduced provisions to undo the very bill that he and so many Republicans
00:41:06supported.
00:41:07And it's why you're going to see Republicans hit the road over the August recess, if they
00:41:11ever get out of town here, to try and message on the parts of the bill that are more popular.
00:41:16Those tax cuts, extending and making permanent the tax cuts that will benefit the middle class
00:41:21and also some high-income earners, too.
00:41:24Some of the other provisions, like no tax on tips, no tax on overtimes, key campaign provisions,
00:41:28are the things that Republicans are hoping Americans will feel, especially heading into the
00:41:332026 midterm elections, which is really a test of the president's performance this term so far.
00:41:40And it's something Republicans are also paying attention to as they tell their members,
00:41:44focus on this piece of the bill and ignore the rest.
00:41:47Already looking towards the midterms.
00:41:48Julie Sirkin, thank you.
00:41:50And Susan, let's read those numbers one more time.
00:41:52Three trillion added to the national debt.
00:41:54Possibly 10 million people kicked off their health care.
00:41:56How do Republicans go back to their districts and explain this to their constituents?
00:42:00I don't think they will, because a lot of these policies will not take effect, as Julie said,
00:42:06until after the midterm elections.
00:42:09And I'm not even sure that they're going to try and campaign on this bill at all,
00:42:14it being 18 months away from the midterm elections.
00:42:18Because, you know, we heard it with Big Back, that Build Back Better under Biden, that it was,
00:42:24oh, they don't have a message.
00:42:25It's the messenger.
00:42:26It's all of that.
00:42:27I don't think people want to be messaged to.
00:42:30I think you have to talk about what they're feeling right now.
00:42:33And what do they feel right now?
00:42:35Price of beef.
00:42:36That's what they feel.
00:42:37That's what, you know, whatever those issues are, are what elected officials who are hoping
00:42:42to be reelected and their challengers should be talking about.
00:42:45So kick the can down the road strategy is possibly what we're looking at here.
00:42:48OK, so, Basil, break this down for us.
00:42:50Several polls, as we showed, show this is widely unpopular.
00:42:53Of course, Democrats are taking the opportunity to hammer this and the impact it could have
00:42:59on American lives, losing health care for 10 million people.
00:43:01So is their messaging so far effective in your mind?
00:43:05It has been effective in part because it took so long to get the bill passed.
00:43:08It provided a little extra time for some voters to get to understand what's actually in the bill.
00:43:13But to Susan's point, and she's absolutely right, a lot of these provisions don't really
00:43:17get put into effect for quite some time.
00:43:20So it really is important for Democrats to kind of keep up the pressure, don't take their
00:43:24foot off the gas.
00:43:26So the more they talk about it, the more they can warn Americans about the effects of that
00:43:30bill and plan for it.
00:43:32That, to me, is probably the most important part here, because it's not just saying this
00:43:36is bad.
00:43:37It's how are we as a party going to help support you going forward, particularly when you have
00:43:41things like rural hospitals closing?
00:43:43Yeah.
00:43:43So, Susan, the White House Republicans are trying to portray this as a tax cut.
00:43:48It's going to be a growth economy coming down the pike with this, the positive outlook
00:43:52on this.
00:43:53How will Americans see it?
00:43:55They'll see it as, I didn't have my taxes go up, but I didn't have my taxes go down either.
00:44:00Things, this is status quo.
00:44:02I will take a little point of what you said, Basil, to it happening so, it took so long to
00:44:07get passed.
00:44:08This bill got passed in five months, the first five months of the Trump administration, which
00:44:13is pretty quickly.
00:44:14And I think that was done intentionally, one, because the administration knew it didn't
00:44:19have a long time to move their agenda forward.
00:44:21And the second part is it gave them enough time to either distance themselves or double
00:44:26down on it.
00:44:27Now it seems like they're going to distance themselves.
00:44:29OK, so throw up a full screen for us.
00:44:31Basil, the new Quinnipiac poll puts approval of the Democratic Party at just 19 percent.
00:44:36Not that's not the one it is 19 percent.
00:44:40And the DNC's latest fundraising numbers are trailing the Republican counterparts by
00:44:44sixty five million dollars.
00:44:46So what more do Democrats need to do to regain some of the trust that they've lost from
00:44:50Americans?
00:44:51And how can they do it?
00:44:53Boy, if I could fully answer that question, all those numbers are going to turn around.
00:44:57But that said, look, there was some reporting that there is a report coming out to talk about
00:45:00what went wrong.
00:45:01I actually do talk to some of the folks at the DNC have full faith that they're going to
00:45:06get to the bottom of it.
00:45:07But I think what's important that probably will come out of that report is there's an
00:45:11infrastructure issue that has that didn't just happen last year.
00:45:15It's been years in the making.
00:45:17And that is the one thing that I think needs to be rebuilt.
00:45:21But I think but a broader sort of umbrella issue, something that my former Congress
00:45:25member Charlie Rangel used to say to sort of pull off of that.
00:45:28He represented Harlem.
00:45:30You say Harlem's not a place.
00:45:31It's a state of mind.
00:45:32And that, I think, is a parallel for the Democratic Party.
00:45:35It's not just a party.
00:45:36It's not just an organization.
00:45:38It has to be something that people want to belong to because it will impact their lives
00:45:42in a positive way.
00:45:43That's the kind of overall messaging that the party needs to get to.
00:45:46OK, but meanwhile, everyone is focused on the Jeffrey Epstein saga as it continues to
00:45:50unravel parts of the MAGA base.
00:45:53House Speaker Mike Johnson was asked about moves to try to make some of these files public
00:45:57and whether or not he would let that happen before Congress goes into recess.
00:46:01Take a look at what he had to say.
00:46:03Are you going to ask the members to not sign on to the discharge petition?
00:46:07Discharge petitions are never a good idea in the House.
00:46:10It is a party of them.
00:46:11It is a tool of the minority party, not majority.
00:46:15The majority party has stated its position and it is mine and it is the president's that
00:46:19we want maximum disclosure.
00:46:21So the rest of it is a political game that Democrats are playing and I hope Republicans
00:46:25don't join it.
00:46:26OK, Susan, so if Johnson is successful in burying this discharge petition, at least for now,
00:46:32until maybe September, is he just prolonging the inevitable here?
00:46:36I think he's prolonging it and making it actually worse because we're talking about it.
00:46:41Exactly.
00:46:42And it's not necessarily going to be the top media story like it is now.
00:46:45But those folks in Magellan that are the big conspiracists, they are going to be talking
00:46:50about it among themselves every single day and this will and the attacks will drum on
00:46:56against Pam Bondi, against President Trump.
00:46:59It's I think this was a big mistake.
00:47:02They should have let it come forward.
00:47:03But I don't think we'll ever see all those documents anyway.
00:47:06Should should Democrats be hitching their wagon to this or no?
00:47:09I think they should be talking about it because remember, there are women and girls involved
00:47:12and there's about it's about protecting and creating potential legislation that keep this
00:47:17from happening again, particularly on the financial aspects of this.
00:47:19There's a whole network of people involved.
00:47:22But Donald Trump's not going to be on the ballot.
00:47:24There are midterms coming up.
00:47:25So I always ask the practical question, what changes the ultimate electoral dynamic?
00:47:31Those Republicans are not going to vote for Democrats, but maybe you'll have more
00:47:35conspiratorial, alt-right Republicans running and that presents an opportunity for Democrats.
00:47:39Well, and as Lisa Rubin has continued to say, at the heart of this are those victims
00:47:42that we have to keep in mind.
00:47:44Susan and Basil, thank you so much for your time.
00:47:46Next hour, late night comic Stephen Colbert getting by with a little help from his friends.
00:47:51The surprise solidarity last night in the wake of the CBS shakeup.
00:47:55But first, he was introduced to millions as Theo Huxtable on The Cosby Show.
00:47:59What we know about the tragic accidental death of actor Malcolm Jamal Warner.
00:48:04That's coming up.
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00:51:38We are learning new details this morning in the tragic death of beloved actor Malcolm Jamal Warner.
00:51:47Authorities say the 54-year-old drowned while swimming on a family vacation in Costa Rica.
00:51:52Warner was best known for his role as Theo Huxtable for eight seasons on The Cosby Show,
00:51:57a sitcom watched by more than 60 million during its heyday.
00:52:01Warner's co-star is now paying tribute to him as the investigation into his death moves forward.
00:52:06NBC's Jesse Kirsch has the latest from Costa Rica.
00:52:09Jesse?
00:52:10This is the beach where Malcolm Jamal Warner's life suddenly and shockingly came to an end over the weekend.
00:52:16When we got here, we immediately saw signs warning about the potential for a rip current.
00:52:21Signs warning about the conditions in the water.
00:52:23And you can see that there is a red flag blowing here right now telling people to not go swimming in that water.
00:52:29And, of course, a flag like that can change as conditions change on a beachfront,
00:52:33but just speaks to how the conditions can be at this beach.
00:52:37A source close to the actor tells NBC News that Warner was with his wife and young daughter on vacation
00:52:43when a day at the beach went horribly wrong.
00:52:47This morning, fans and co-stars are mourning the shocking death of Malcolm Jamal Warner,
00:52:52the actor best known as Theo Huxtable, on The Cosby Show.
00:52:55Oh, there you go!
00:52:57That's the interesting!
00:52:59Costa Rican officials say Warner drowned Sunday afternoon in the province of Limon.
00:53:04According to investigators, the 54-year-old was swept away by the sea's current
00:53:08before bystanders were able to pull him out of the water.
00:53:11But he had no vital signs.
00:53:13I'll be in my room, Suzanne.
00:53:15Warner was just 14 when he landed the role that would cement his place in television history,
00:53:20playing the lovably naive Theo Huxtable on The Cosby Show.
00:53:24Look at these sleeves!
00:53:27Warner's stopping by today, just before the show wrapped in 1992.
00:53:32The show has given me a wonderful opportunity to be able to grow
00:53:36and to be able to kind of show what I can do.
00:53:41He later addressed the show's complicated legacy after its star,
00:53:44Bill Cosby, was accused and convicted of sexual assault.
00:53:48That conviction later overturned.
00:53:50The effect that it had on Black people worldwide can never be taken away.
00:54:02After his early success, Warner kept acting, including alongside Tracee Ellis Ross in Read Between the Lines.
00:54:08On Monday, she wrote,
00:54:09Beyond his on-screen career, he also worked as a poet and musician, even earning a Grammy.
00:54:19Just last year, he launched the Not All Hood podcast, looking at the experiences of Black Americans,
00:54:25and reflected on today about his life after early fame.
00:54:28And I've got my head on straight.
00:54:30My soul and dignity is intact.
00:54:34Like, I've had a really wonderful journey.
00:54:36The source close to Warner says all signs point to this being a tragic accident.
00:54:42The Costa Rican Red Cross says a second man was also treated on the scene
00:54:46and was taken to a local clinic at last word in critical condition.
00:54:51Back to you.
00:54:52Absolutely tragic for his friends and family.
00:54:54Jesse Kirsch, thank you.
00:54:56Coming up in our next hour, President Trump meeting with the leader of the Philippines any moment now.
00:55:01We will be watching, of course, to see if he says anything about the Epstein files that have roiled his administration and the MAGA base.
00:55:08And we'll talk more about the fallout with the top Democrat on the Oversight Committee, Congressman Robert Garcia.
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00:59:18Democratic U.S. Senator Alex Padilla on MSNBC for his first exclusive interview.
00:59:23I'm going to talk to Zoran Ramdani for his first national interview.
00:59:27New Jersey Senator Cory Booker.
00:59:28His first TV interview since his record-breaking speech in the Senate.
00:59:32We've got Jacob Soberoff standing by with the governor of California.
00:59:35Is it an emergency?
00:59:36Is it a peaceful protest?
00:59:37Have you at all soured about your American experience?
00:59:40The Department of Homeland Security called this political theater.
00:59:42What you've done has captured the nation's attention.
00:59:46It is 11 a.m. Eastern, 8 a.m. Pacific.
00:59:54Thanks for staying with us.
00:59:55I'm Arielle Reshef, in for Ana Cabrera today.
00:59:58Any moment now, President Trump will welcome the president of the Philippines to the White House.
01:00:02Trade and tariffs are the key focus here, but Trump could take questions from the press for the very first time since Friday's Wall Street Journal reporting on the alleged letter from Trump to disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.
01:00:13The president denying the birthday note and the doodle, calling them, quote, a fake thing.
01:00:19He's now suing for $10 billion in damages.
01:00:22And there's a new development this morning.
01:00:24The Justice Department just announced it plans to meet with convicted Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell.
01:00:29Well, let's get.
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