Negotiation Without Capitulation

Rich Heller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sFyp3-nBB4  When every disagreement turns into a standoff or a surrender, your marriage becomes a battlefield—or a graveyard of resentment. In this episode, we explore how to negotiate like a leader: with clarity, calm, and care. Learn how to honor your values without hardening your heart, and how to create win-wins instead of war zones. This isn’t about “giving in” or “getting your way.” It’s about standing for what matters while building the trust and emotional safety your relationship needs to thrive.   🧭 Want to help shape the book that’s changing how men show up in marriage?   Visit richinrelationship.com for more tips and tools  Follow us on social media for more relationship advice:  Facebook -  https://www.facebook.com/richinrelationship/    Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/richinrelationship/    Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/richinrelationship/_created/  Tiktok -    https://www.tiktok.com/@richinrelationship  LinkedIn -  https://www.linkedin.com/company/rich-in-relationship  Website - https://www.richinrelationship.com

Transcript

00:00Today at Rich in Relationship, we're going to talk about how to negotiate in your marriage

00:05and have it be a win for everyone instead of a battlefield.

00:09If every disagreement ends the same way, you cave to avoid a fight or you dig in and make

00:15things worse.

00:16But disagreement doesn't have to mean fight.

00:18It doesn't have to mean a battle.

00:20Some men, they don't do that at all.

00:22They double down.

00:23They confuse dominance for strength and they shut their partner down.

00:27And that's what a lot of people are calling toxic masculinity right now.

00:34Welcome to another episode of Rich in Relationship.

00:37I'm your host, Rich Heller.

00:38And today we're talking about negotiation without capitulation, how to hold the line with love.

00:47And that sounds like, even as I said it, negotiation without capitulation, I was like, wow, that

00:53sounds like a John Wayne movie or something.

00:57But you can have negotiation without capitulation and still have it be a win-win, all right?

01:06What we're really talking about here is how to negotiate for what you feel is important,

01:11for what you want and need for yourself and for your family and for your marriage in a way

01:20that doesn't compromise you.

01:23And one of the reasons why so many of the men who come to me are so frustrated is they have been

01:29capitulating and compromising themselves.

01:32This is about how to be true to yourself and true to your marital vows and your love for your partner

01:38all together.

01:39And this builds on the last couple of episodes, which have been about identifying your values

01:45and principles.

01:45It's been about how to stand for your values and principles and communicate them in a way

01:49that's loving and caring.

01:50How to build a relationship that feels safe for your wife while not allowing your conversations

01:58to slip into territory where you're hurting each other, which is not really what you want

02:02in your marriage.

02:03If every disagreement ends the same way, you cave to avoid a fight or you dig in and make

02:10things worse, or maybe you give in, blow up or check out.

02:15Well, then the chances are you're negotiating and capitulating.

02:19You're either capitulating to the enemy or capitulating to yourself.

02:23And if your partner's become the enemy, you know right away you've already lost.

02:28Well, you can hold your ground and preserve connection with your partner.

02:33You can negotiate in a healthy relationship and not have it be about you winning, but have

02:40it be about both of you winning.

02:42You can stay true to yourself while protecting partnership.

02:47We're going to equip men with a mindset and process for relational negotiation that honors

02:53both partners' values.

02:54That's what this episode's all about.

02:57So stay tuned.

02:58It's hard to talk about this without talking about the false choice first, which is capitulation

03:02or conflict.

03:03When you think your only options are to fight or to fold, you've already lost.

03:11You're already in a mindset that isn't going to work.

03:15A book that I recommend to a lot of couples that'll help you with this mindset concept is

03:20called The Power of Ted, a great book.

03:22It basically talks about the victim triangle.

03:28In the victim triangle, there is the victim, there is the bully, and there is the rescuer.

03:36When we are in a capitulation or conflict mindset, we're somewhere in the victim triangle.

03:41And that triangle is kind of like a snake eating its own tail.

03:45It enables itself.

03:48It goes on and on and on and on and on and on.

03:50Most of the couples who come to me are stuck in the victim triangle.

03:52The work that we do is to help us step out of the victim triangle into the empowerment

03:58dynamic, which is what Ted stands for, right?

04:01We want you to be personally empowered.

04:03We want your relationship to be empowered.

04:05Now, men in recent history have defaulted to appeasing their partner to keep the peace.

04:10Happy wife, happy life is what we say.

04:13And you know what?

04:14There are times when defaulting makes perfect sense.

04:17If it's in an area that she knows more about than we do, or that she's got a bigger investment

04:20than we do.

04:22Yeah, you've got to pick your fights carefully.

04:25I also want to replace that word fights with pick your battlefields.

04:28Notice that all the wording around disagreement in marriage sounds like warfare.

04:34We need a new word for this, right?

04:37Because really what we're doing in marriage is we're building synergy.

04:40We're going over a bridge together, right?

04:43And the foundation of the bridge is built on shared values.

04:50And when we're going over a bridge together, we might always agree about which bridge to

04:55take or how fast to go over it or any of those things.

04:58Maybe that's part of what needs to be worked out here.

05:01But disagreement doesn't have to mean fight.

05:03It doesn't have to mean a battle.

05:05Some men, they don't do that at all.

05:07They double down.

05:08They confuse dominance for strength and they shut their partner down.

05:12And that's what a lot of people are calling toxic masculinity right now.

05:16This, uh, we talked in the last episode about my way or the highway and what that breeds.

05:21Even if you win from that position and you get your way, you don't win because your partner's

05:27not emotionally invested.

05:28And if your partner's not emotionally invested, then you were going over the bridge alone,

05:31buddy.

05:32The truth is that both options breed resentment, mistrust, and long-term disconnection.

05:37Let's talk about my favorite couple, Brad and Gwen.

05:42Gwen wants to take the kids to Disneyland.

05:46Who doesn't want to go to Disneyland, right?

05:47She doesn't just want to take the kids.

05:48She wants to take her parents to Disneyland.

05:51She thinks Brad is making mad money.

05:53He's a crazy serial entrepreneur, but Brad with the recent tariff war that's been going

06:01on is a little edgy about money right now.

06:03And he doesn't want to spend all that money.

06:05But at the same time, Gwen's on him, Brad, you make so much.

06:09You're always holding back.

06:11You're always keeping it for yourself.

06:13When are you going to spend some money on the family?

06:15And why, why should my parents pay for themselves?

06:18When they die, if they have any money, we're going to get it anyway.

06:21So you might as well pay for them now.

06:23It's pay for it now or pay for it later, no matter how you look at it.

06:27So Brad gives in.

06:28He figures, I'll just carve this money out somewhere else in our budget.

06:32And he spends weeks, literally weeks, feeling bitter, withdrawn, and self-critical.

06:36They go to Disneyland and Brad enjoys his time with his kids, but he doesn't talk to Gwen.

06:41He is hostile to Gwen's parents, even though he likes them.

06:44He unconsciously resents them because Gwen made him, made him pay for them.

06:50That's caving in.

06:52What Brad needed to learn is that he wasn't avoiding a battle there.

06:57Or maybe he was by avoiding, and actually he didn't.

07:00He got into the battle and he let himself be beaten down is what happened.

07:04And then he gave in because he didn't want to fight anymore.

07:08Brad didn't understand that marital negotiation is not a battlefield.

07:11Now, you can approach your marital negotiation like any of the principles of negotiation tell you to.

07:18You can ask for $100,000 when you want $10,000 and feel like you're winning.

07:22But the truth is that if you're negotiating with your partner that way, and they don't know that you're negotiating with them that way,

07:29if it isn't a game, if it's serious, what you're saying is, I don't trust you.

07:34And a marriage without trust, it's like a day without sunshine.

07:39But seriously, a marriage without trust is emotionally stagnant, right?

07:45The negotiation in marriage is not like business negotiation.

07:49It's kind of the opposite.

07:51In business negotiation, you keep your cards to your chest.

07:54You ask for more than you want.

07:56Maybe you ask for something you don't even want so that you can, say, settle for something that you do want that doesn't even seem to be on the table.

08:04That's a great business negotiation.

08:06Don't work in marriage.

08:07In marriage, you need to be transparent.

08:09You need to be transparent because the contract you entered into was, I'm going to help you succeed as an individual,

08:15and you're going to help me succeed as an individual, and our marriage is going to succeed in helping us both succeed individually.

08:21And because our marriage is succeeding, our kids are going to succeed.

08:24Because our kids are succeeding, we're both going to be individually and merrily fulfilled and happy.

08:28And when our kids grow up, that contract is going to continue because they're going to have kids, and we're going to be the legacy for our grandchildren.

08:36We're going to make sure that there's financial freedom, that our grandchildren get to know each other, even though our kids are living in separate cities.

08:43We're going to make sure that our parents leave this world in the same way that we would want to leave this world.

08:47You know, we've got an ongoing role together, and we can only operate as partners if we're transparent with each other.

08:53That's why this is not like business.

08:55You are partners, not nemesis.

08:57The truth is, when negotiation feels like war, someone's walking away wounded, no matter who wins.

09:03It's not about control, all right?

09:05You don't want to control your partner.

09:07You want to create clarity and collaboration, because in collaboration, they can bring the strengths to the table.

09:11You can bring your strengths to the table.

09:13They can do the things they're best at.

09:15You can do the things you're best at.

09:16A healthy negotiation with a partner starts from shared vision and shared purpose, not opposing positions.

09:24Brad's big mistake is that, for whatever reason, Gwen does not believe him when he says,

09:31Gwen, I'm scared about money right now.

09:33A way Brad could have handled this is, Gwen, I'm not going to pay for this right now.

09:39We're not going to go to Disney.

09:40If you're not going to hear my point of view, I'm not going to spend more than we should, because that means we're not going to have money for other things that we need, like our kids' college.

09:49And I'm not going to argue about it, because it's not helping either of us.

09:56I'm just not going to pay for it.

09:57If you have the money, you can pay for it.

10:00Or Brad could say, I'm only willing to pay for this right now.

10:02And if you have money for the rest, please feel free.

10:05I mean, there are a lot of ways that Brad could do that.

10:07But without being a hard-ass, true power is about being vulnerable.

10:12True power is about taking a stand where it needs to be taken in a way that respects and honors the other person.

10:18See, one of the previous episodes.

10:20You need to know the line between the position you're taking or a preference that you have versus a principle.

10:26So in that story that I told you of Brad and Gwen, it's not that he doesn't want to go to Disneyland.

10:31It's not that he doesn't want to pay for Gwen's parents.

10:33It's that he doesn't want to do it at the expense of a rainy day fund or their kids going to college or their 401k or whatever.

10:42But he's got a conflict.

10:43In fact, Brad has a conflict of principles.

10:46Gwen doesn't trust him.

10:48And so he's trying to prove that he really loves her by giving her what she wants.

10:54And by doing that, he validated her concern or her belief that he was holding back money that he actually had.

11:01And he was holding back money that he actually had.

11:03It was money that they had agreed they were going to use for other things.

11:06He didn't really explain that to her or she didn't believe it when he explained it to her.

11:10In fact, in that instance, in an instance like that, you're almost better off sitting down and talking about, you know what, let's stop talking about money.

11:16Let's talk about why you don't trust me.

11:19I'm almost better off getting that on the table.

11:22It might be that the real negotiation is, how can I get you to believe me and trust me more?

11:27Or if you're not going to believe me and trust me, please forgive me if I can't give you what you want right now because I am where I am with this.

11:36Not, I am where I am and you're going to do what I want.

11:38If you don't know what matters most, everything feels like a fight.

11:42And that's a fact.

11:42And that's really what happened to Brad, right?

11:44He didn't realize that what matters most is the fact that his wife just doesn't trust him.

11:49She didn't realize what matters most is that he really is concerned about their future.

11:54You need to clarify your non-negotiables.

11:57You need to clarify your values and principles and personal boundaries.

12:00A lot of episodes preceding this one about that, so I'm not going to go too deep with it.

12:04You need to separate them from your position or your preferences about how things should be, the things that you care about, but you could flex on.

12:14So Brad really can't flex on money for college because that's a really important value for him.

12:21He could flex on how or when the trip to Disney happens.

12:26There are a lot of ways that he could have worked that through.

12:28Invite her to do the same.

12:29Brad could have invited Gwen to be more flexible.

12:31He could have said to her, hey, listen, I'm willing to work with you on this, but you need to understand it's the kid's future.

12:36You may not trust me.

12:37You may not believe me, but, you know, work with me on this.

12:40Being willing to give in the areas that you can give and asking them to give in the areas that they can give without compromising yourselves creates mutual clarity and respect.

12:50Here's a tool.

12:52I want you to write out three things that you will always stand for and three things that you're always willing to work through together.

12:59So these are three things that you won't compromise on and three things that you will compromise on.

13:04What would some examples be?

13:05Three things that you won't compromise on.

13:07I won't compromise on the safety of my family.

13:09I won't compromise on my children's future, their financial freedom in terms of education and opportunity.

13:17And I won't compromise on emotional safety in our household.

13:26Three things that you might be willing to compromise on.

13:31I will compromise on the way money is, that money is spent.

13:36As long as these are the things I won't be compromised, are not compromised on.

13:41Um, I might agree to having a house somewhere different than I thought I would be good or right.

13:48If we have the money for it, if there's benefit for everyone involved, I'm open to change.

13:53Um, I could compromise on vacations.

14:00I could compromise on parties.

14:03I can compromise on time with the children.

14:07Not that I won't.

14:08It's not a choice.

14:09I'm not saying I would compromise on.

14:11Yes, time with the children.

14:12No, but how much and when could be compromises.

14:16In fact, those are things that I think my partner might do better than me.

14:19To be honest, when you speak, speak with strength and speak with softness.

14:24All right.

14:24Uh, in the last episode, we talked about what it's like to build a foundation of emotional

14:32honesty that isn't angry or frustrated.

14:35That isn't combative, right?

14:37That we want to come from that place and maintain that place.

14:40See, the truth is you don't have to be allowed to be heard or understood and you don't have

14:45to be cold to be respected.

14:46This is really important.

14:48In the story I told you about Brad and Gwen last episode, Brad used a lot of I statements.

14:53I statements are, I'm feeling this feeling when the situation happens because it reminds

15:00me of something in my childhood or whatever, or because I'm afraid or also use calm body

15:06language.

15:07You want to sit with your back straight, but not in an aggressive stance.

15:13You don't want to be hunched over.

15:14You want your body language, try not to be crossing your arms or your body language to

15:18be open, but is that the word, uh, open, but strong is probably the word I'm looking

15:24for.

15:25You want to validate her concerns before presenting yours.

15:29You want to make sure that you not just validate her concerns.

15:32It's really important that you, my wife uses this expression.

15:35She says, you don't just want to know what it's like to walk in someone's shoes.

15:40You want to know what it would be like to walk in it.

15:42If you were them walking it with them, as if you were them before you present your perspective,

15:48if you really understand where someone's coming from and what it feels like to walk in their

15:53shoes.

15:53to live their life, to have their fears and hopes and dreams, it, then you can present

15:59your concerns with a lot more sensitivity to what might trigger them or, and what might

16:05be appealing to them.

16:06This is very strategic.

16:08What I'm telling you here, I'm telling you before you negotiate, imagine where she comes

16:13from and why had Brad imagined why this was so important to Gwen in advance, he might have

16:24figured out another way to do this.

16:26It might not have been Disneyland.

16:29Maybe there would be a less expensive trip.

16:31One that met the amount of money they had earmarked for holidays where they could take

16:36Gwen's parents and kids and, and still feel, uh, still show that they're invested in them.

16:44That was really what Gwen wanted.

16:46Own your emotion without projecting blame.

16:49As men, we tend to avoid hurt, sad, alone, and we turn to cover it over with frustrated

16:59and angry.

17:00So when I sit with that, inevitably, when we don't own our hurt and our sadness or our

17:06sense of aloneness, any of those kind of victim-y feelings, we don't own them and really

17:12get where it's coming from, what it reminds us of in our childhood, why we might be having

17:16more emotion than the situation calls for.

17:19And then we get angry or frustrated.

17:22It turns into blame.

17:23We take our hurt and put it on them.

17:26Um, you made me take you to Disney and spend the kids money.

17:30And I'm so upset with you.

17:32The kids college is ruined because of you.

17:34That's what Brad could have said.

17:36Maybe even did say what Brad could have said is, look, I know budget conversations really

17:41stress you out.

17:42And I know you think that I'm sitting on a stockpile of money and that I'm super cheap.

17:47The truth is that I feel anxious, not just about money.

17:51I feel anxious that we're not on the same page about this.

17:53I'd really like to have that time with your parents and our kids together.

17:58And I'd like to pay for it.

18:00Let's work out a way that we can do this and have it be a win for everyone.

18:04What do you say, Gwen?

18:06And who knows?

18:07Maybe Gwen would have tested that first.

18:09Maybe Gwen would have said, yeah, that's just what you say.

18:12When you, when you're trying to get me to do something, I don't want to do.

18:15And Brad's opportunity there would be to say, I could see why you feel that way.

18:19Because I've been that way in the past, but I want you to know that today I really am,

18:25you know, with what's going on with the economy, I really am concerned.

18:28And I only have so much money available right now.

18:32If I'm not picking our own pockets in the future.

18:35And if she goes on, he can say, you know what?

18:36I don't want to have this kind of conversation with you.

18:38We can revisit it when we can both be calm.

18:42Or I'm getting upset.

18:43If you're going to have this kind of conversation, it's super important that you pick the right time and moment, right?

18:49As guys, what we love to do is say, Friday at 3 p.m., we're talking about this.

18:56But sometimes Friday at 3 p.m. is the worst time.

19:00She's just picked the kids up from school.

19:02It's been a hard day.

19:03She's busy.

19:05She's freaked out.

19:06You want to wait till you're both feeling calm and safe.

19:09Maybe the kids are put to bed before you have a negotiation.

19:12And you may not even want to finish the negotiation.

19:15You may just want to start it.

19:18Look, you wouldn't do surgery in a boxing ring.

19:21So don't try and negotiate when you're feeling emotionally fluttered or when she is.

19:26Schedule the hard conversations with care.

19:29Agree on some ground rules.

19:31Maybe you want ground rules like no yelling, interrupting, or walking out.

19:35Revisit.

19:36Don't rehash.

19:38And pause.

19:39Pause.

19:39Pause if needed.

19:40Return when you're both feeling grounded.

19:44Like you've had your emotions and you can talk about them without them having you.

19:49I want you to think about, here's your challenge.

19:50I want you to think about one area that you need to negotiate on in the future.

19:59And I want you to think about what is really important to you about that as a principle.

20:03A principle would be like a 10,000-foot view thing.

20:09Like for Brad, there were several principles at play.

20:12There's the principle of ensuring my, protecting my children's future.

20:16There's the principle of, also in conflict, was the principle of, I really want to have a good vacation with my kids and my wife's family.

20:24These things were coming head to head.

20:28But because he wasn't in touch with the principles, he was sure that the only thing was to make the parents pay or whatever.

20:36He wasn't willing to look at options.

20:38So I want you to think about one challenge you have to think about 10,000 feet.

20:42What are the principles?

20:43What are her principles?

20:44What are your principles?

20:44And then from that sense, think about how might we have a win for both of us that where all of our principles come into alignment and choose something like small or medium level.

20:56Don't go for a big picture one.

20:57Don't go for something like money.

21:00Okay.

21:01Maybe it's about weekend plans or something like that.

21:05Clarify your line and make sure you remain willing to listen.

21:08Use I statements.

21:10Use committed listening.

21:11Go to Rich in Relationship if you need to learn more about those things.

21:16In the meantime, I want you to think about, I've been, in previous episodes, I've talked about what would it be like to be in a community.

21:24And I'm going to challenge you here.

21:26We're building a community of men right now who are on a shared, have a shared ambition for their individual families.

21:36And the beauty of this is that they're not in competition with each other.

21:40They're not fighting each other.

21:41They're uplifting each other in a shared ambition.

21:44Think about, would something like that benefit you?

21:47I just want you to think about that.

21:49And in the meantime, have a wonderful day and an awesome tomorrow.

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