- 4/22/2025
WRIF Virtual Rock Room with Avatar's Johannes Eckerström
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FunTranscript
00:00Thank you so much for watching Riff TV. Now this interview is obviously with video, but I don't
00:05interview everybody on Zoom. That's why I put it on my Talkin' Rock with Meltdown podcast. We talk
00:10to rock artists from all over the genre. So check out Talkin' Rock with Meltdown wherever you get
00:15your podcasts. And now to today's video interview. So where in the world are you exactly?
00:22We are in Lyon in France right now. Oh, nice. Excellent. A sold out show. And I don't even
00:31know how many. Closer to 2000, I think. It's going to be real good. Nice. Yeah, that's good. That's
00:37awesome. Have you felt your career kind of go to every single level up till now? Definitely. Like,
00:43yeah, still heading the right direction, knock on wood, but it's been baby steps all the time, which
00:49I'm not going to lie. If I would have, you know, if we would have been getting the Guns
00:53and Roses treatment at age of 22, I would have loved that at a time. I also don't think it's
00:59healthy for anyone to do it like that. So no, no. So yeah, definitely feel, we feel and appreciate
01:06every little step. And this, this European run that we are doing right now, that will continue
01:12over your side of the pond in April is, uh, what's a, it's particularly good. I would say.
01:19Yeah. It's funny that you bring up the, uh, guns and roses slash thing, you know,
01:23the guns and roses thing, but yeah, those guys have been big style, big time celebrities since
01:28their early to mid twenties. And it's like, they kind of jumped to that level right there. And that's
01:33kind of where they stay, but you guys have kind of built it up slowly and surely a lot to do with
01:37your live show as well. When you guys played the Rip Fest last year, I could hear people talking
01:42all around me going, wow, this band is killer, you know, and that's where I really kind of discovered
01:46you guys as well. Yeah. We like, we like cardio on stage and we like to practice. We really know like,
01:56yeah, like it's, it's the end goal of what we do, I guess the whole, like, you know, there's that
02:05cliche, uh, plat, it becomes a platitude. If a singer says without the fans, we will be nothing,
02:11but this is truly music that is made for that moment of, you know, when it enters people's lives
02:18and it does it, it does that in tons of different ways, but specifically when we play live, we get to
02:25watch it happen. And that congregation, that ritual is, uh, what it's all about for us. So we're very
02:31passionate about it. So it's good that people like it. Now, do you write songs with the stage
02:36in mind or with videos in mind or none of that? No, uh, no, it's more like really write music for
02:43the sake of music and whatever needs to come out comes out. But I think it's a measuring stick,
02:50at least for me, like, uh, if the, if the riffs are good, if the grooves are good, you will start
02:57moving a certain way and you will start getting ideas and inspired purely by the music. So, so it's
03:05not that you think, Oh, like, Oh, we need something that has a pyro on the downbeat or something,
03:11but do you still kind of, once you start feeling the song and you start feeling it in all these
03:15kind of different ways? And some of it, sometimes it really quickly, uh, lends itself to start
03:22imagining what, what it would be like to play it live. So, but that's an effect of giving a crap
03:29about the songs on a writer's level, I guess. Yeah. Now, uh, Avatar country came out several
03:33years ago and that's where I really discovered you guys. Hunter Gathers came out, uh, a couple of
03:39years back. And then now you got, uh, now you got the new record. Uh, this, the new record seems
03:44to be a little bit more a hunter gatherers as opposed to avatar country. Would you agree?
03:48Yeah. In the sense that hunter gatherer, sorry, avatar country was a comedy. Um, it was, it's a
03:57very specific time in our history and something we really wanted to try, but to try once how the
04:02whole King thing and avatar country thing is all built out around inside jokes that we brought out to
04:09the world and let's be, and just play it and have fun with people who joined in on that little game
04:14and, um, and really make the avatar country thing come alive. It was very, very special, but it was a
04:20thing that could only ever work once. Just did you did a part two just could never, yeah, it just would
04:26never work. Then how to gatherer is very serious. I think it's an effect of what came, what it came,
04:35what came just before, maybe too serious in some ways, or, and also maybe a bit song by song. I'm
04:42incredibly proud of it, but for the album as a whole, I can feel that in order to do avatar country
04:48successfully, we kind of had to consciously hold back other vibes, other ideas. And then that, that
04:55all came out, uh, in hunter gatherer in a way that, uh, I mean, again, individual songs, great,
05:02but seeing big picture, it feels a bit scattered and it's a weird balance for us because we always
05:08are always eclectic, I guess is the word in terms of just what happens on an album, but to be eclectic
05:15and scattered, you know, that's the risk you take. And there, I feel like dance devil dance got that
05:21part, right. There's more fun and dance and rock and roll on it, but it's still definitely, it's all
05:27about exploring darker rooms. So finding the right balance between those and doing it where the
05:34songs feel more focused than ever, than anything we've ever done in the past, honestly, in my
05:39opinion. Yeah, no, the record's killer. And it's like, I love it. As with all your records, you know,
05:43your voice plays such a unique instrument as a, you know, some, some guys, they just got kind of got
05:49that one thing or they're just a little bit, but you're kind of like wider. You're, you're all over
05:53the place, don't you? I like to feel like a beginner, which means I like to try things
06:00and for each album, whatever are the challenges on that album, then to nail in the studio, to nail
06:08in the writing. Once you hit the road with it after a while, hopefully I should get, you know, get a bit
06:14more secure in it. But that also means that I then have to push myself a bit further and further.
06:20And yeah, that leads to craziness on the album. And also we all feel on any instrument,
06:28not just the vocals, but the way with that's, we don't use trigs and we don't let the amps
06:34do too much of the heavy lifting. It's all about the wrists or the fingers on the bass
06:37and stuff that we, it's very important to us that to, to play metal should make you sweat
06:44a bit. That it's a physical genre, a part of the sound and the drive and what really makes
06:50metal what it is, is sensing that physicality. So yeah, there's a lot of pushing, uh, involved
06:57and that, that, and I push myself all over the place. Absolutely.
07:01How many of the ideas for this new record were kind of left over from the last record
07:05or do you start from scratch?
07:07Um, not really. And it, well, nothing in a way, but there's, it's also, there are, there are always
07:15those little bits and pieces that have been lying around longer than others. As a matter
07:20of fact, the old, like some riffs just take 10 years to figure out what you're supposed
07:25to do with it. And, uh, a lot of parts are from the Dirk and Barrett and were written
07:31intended to be parts and smells like a freak show. So that's more than 10 years now.
07:36Yeah. But, um, it's funny, like, but it kind of grow as a, what's called a mistletoe, like
07:42a parasite on the branch that was, it's most like a freak show on that album that it were
07:46it became its own thing. Like, okay, it doesn't work for this song, but it is something, what
07:51is it? And then we had a disco beat, we had a clean guitar, we had a chorus and from time
07:56to time would rediscover it on some hard drive or on someone's phone or just talking about
08:01them. That's something, can we do something with them? And didn't nail it until now. So
08:07in that sense. Yeah. Like old, old ideas can get new life after a while. We'd never truly
08:13throw anything away, but it's, there was no songs from how the hunter gatherer era that
08:18made it, that had turned into songs then that stayed. Now we kind of flushed that out when
08:24we did a whole little trip with a single releases, uh, throughout, uh, when was that last
08:29year or a year ago, even I would say, and more when we did so signed hollow and, uh, and,
08:36uh, uh, cruel and unusual. And those, those are truly stuff that was written throughout
08:41the era of, uh, have to gather. Yeah. I know. And I remember James Hetfield one time telling
08:46me he had some sort of like a riff, uh, junkyard that he would go to every once in a while.
08:50Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And you can't stare yourself too blind at it and you can't, uh, you know,
08:55sometimes things simply don't work for a reason, but, um, but then you have those things where
09:01you have 50% or something, but it's such a good 50%. And then you can't really, but 50% is very,
09:09very far away from being a full song. Um, and that those, those drives can drive us crazy for years.
09:16And yeah, we got a whole lot of 50% or seven from time to time, but it's just, again, some,
09:22some stuff needs more time to mature and some things, I mean, most songs are always written
09:28in that time from when you, when you've released the latest album and go, ah, good. I don't need
09:35to worry about writing songs anymore. Oh, a guitar. Nice. Oh, okay. Here we go again. Guys,
09:40we're making another one, you know, same. And most of it comes in that phase because anyway,
09:47you know, it's reflects wherever you are in life at any given time. So lyrics are harder
09:54to recycle unless really lines that sound good in visual lines, but thematically, because
10:00it feels so important to that. Whatever we do with avatar reflects where we are at, at any
10:06given time, like we're not interested in pretending that we are at any certain age that we're not,
10:14you know, we want to keep this being, you know, that the music goes on the same trip as we go
10:20through in life in general. So lyrically it's harder to keep things around. Yeah. I was going
10:26to say this far in your career, what kind of stuff inspires you as far as music and lyrics?
10:30I mean, in many ways, it's the same as always. It starts with the fact that we are fans and
10:38it almost sounds religious putting it like this, I guess, but the thing is we really, really
10:43love heavy metal. We're really, um, and at this point in our lives, heavy metal has given us like
10:50everything. Um, it's in that context. It's a part of that scene where I even met my wife and that's
10:58how we pay our bills. So that's how we got to travel the world or make the friends we have and,
11:01and just, and how we got to be the family that we are and grow together the way we have. It's all
11:08and since adolescence, you know, heavy metal has given us so much and, and then it's just the drive of
11:14figuring it out more and more, doing something with it and trying, try to write songs you haven't
11:21heard yet, try to add something to the conversation to the best of our ability. And, and that is
11:27a driving factor in itself, just the passion for the music. And then specifically, you know,
11:33it's life. So there's whatever journey you're on in life on this journey and through the time
11:40of this album, things happen. A pandemic happened. Um, I realized that I am Satan that happened.
11:47Uh, a lot of things happened.
11:49When does that dawn on you?
11:52Oh, uh, I started to, uh, run further and by run, I mean, crawl and cry, but, you know,
11:58started to try to do exercising that took me over 10 Ks. And, uh, and if you're a good boy or girl,
12:07some of, some of us are lucky enough to sometimes experience a proper runner's high. And I was,
12:13you know, I was in a kind of trance in a trance from running real far and really far for me and
12:20listening to some really intense rave music. And with everything that's been go going through in
12:27life around that time and everything, it's just ultimately, I don't believe in anything. Uh, but
12:33there's something to be said about the power of symbols, the power of rituals, uh, that is definitely
12:40there, whether or not you believe in magic, you, we blow out birthday candles on the cake. All of
12:45most of us, you know, that's a ritual. A concert is a ritual. We have tons of rituals in our lives
12:51and stuff and symbols, tons of symbols, whether they're religious or political, or otherwise you
12:57can see the power of them, uh, sports teams. It's just how we operate them and me kind of accepting
13:03that there's a value in a spiritual perspective, whether or not you're a believer of things or not.
13:08Um, what's an important insight for me through this and, uh, you know, the more conventional,
13:15uh, higher powers in charge in different, uh, in different, uh, branches of faith, they, um,
13:24the instruction manuals to, to, to those, uh, to those belief systems tend to contain a lot of
13:30authoritarianism and, uh, misogyny and stuff. And then I think, you know, and Satan then as this symbol,
13:38uh, becomes this, I don't know, egalitarian, feminist, harbinger of democracy. And that's
13:45cool. Um, that, and I like, you know, the album is called Dance, Devil, Dance, but there's a
13:51difference between saying devil and saying Satan in my mind. Devil is, he's funny. That's,
13:56that's Angus Young with, uh, with horn, horns on his hat, you know, that's Highway to Hell.
14:01That's a, that's an aesthetic. That's a party. That's a rock and roll, right? Um, Satan is a
14:07word and a name that predates the Abramitic religions. You find it in Soriastrianism and
14:14ancient Persia and stuff. And then I try to remember if it was Shatana or Satana or, you
14:19know, the root anyways, there somewhere. And I now misrepresent it by not remembering exactly
14:24what you should call it, but that figure, yeah, that figure has anyway traveled the
14:30world and traveled through history and tend to symbolize many different things. And as
14:36such, it's very open to be moldable by your own perspective, by what that entity can be
14:43as a symbol. And, um, I believe in accountability. I believe in the individual. I also believe in
14:49not putting anyone above or below myself and all these things that this symbol as an
14:54antagonist and an antithesis to, to, uh, ruling conditions and substanding for. So yeah,
15:03at this time, at least makes perfect sense in my mind.
15:07That's a lot to unpack right there. I'm back right there. So I'm going to go somewhere else
15:12here real fast, but you just mentioned, uh, rituals and stuff. Was that horror movie,
15:16the ritual? Was that, was that made in Sweden? Uh, wait, I tried to remember that one. Cause
15:23yeah, we, me and my wife, we watched all of them. That's a world out in the woods somewhere.
15:28Exactly. Well, that leads me to my next point.
15:31Midsommar was, which was great. I just thought it was amazing to for once be, uh, belong to
15:39the people who was, were quote unquote culturally appropriated. It was hilarious. Um, but yeah,
15:46no, that, that wasn't your question though. Go ahead.
15:48No, no. Midsommar is fantastic. But my, I wanted to ask, you know, I'm bringing that,
15:51speaking of the ritual and stuff, uh, Jay Rustin wanted me to ask you about your four hour hike
15:55through the woods.
15:57I just four hours because the guys were so slow. Um, again, these long runs, um,
16:05I kept them going also while recording as we were recording out in the wilderness and stuff. And,
16:13uh, and one day I just, Hey guys, let's go this around the lake. And then some, come on,
16:18like, come with me, you know, it's, uh, you're missing out. If we're here for a month and you
16:23don't do this. And it was most were okay, but, and I got most of the band and the people who were
16:30with us, uh, you know, Jay and the camera guy, you want to stuff to come with us. And, but it was a
16:35lot of, are we there yet? Are we there yet? And of course, when I went alone, I saw two, I saw,
16:39I saw falcons. I saw, I saw all kinds of animals when I was there by myself and everything. And
16:46then we just saw cars when we walked everyone together, of course. But, uh, yeah, no, it was,
16:52it, it built some character for someone. I hope.
16:56Why does, uh, why do, why do so many rock bands use, uh, Jay Rustin? He's used all over the place
17:01for those who don't know who produces. He mixes, he does all sorts of stuff. You guys have worked
17:04with him several times because for whatever reason, the even bigger selling genre people
17:12are not smart enough to realize how great he is. So we get to keep him for ourselves.
17:16Uh, Jay as an engineer, as a producer, he's obviously mostly known for heavier stuff, rock
17:23and metal. Yes. Um, but if you look in it, if you expand the curriculum to also mixing engineering
17:30and everything, he's, he's done it all and he got experiences for it all. I think I like the,
17:36because he has done so many things, seen so many things, everything feels possible with him. And
17:42it's easy to develop a common language because I don't know enough about mixing or, you know,
17:50the studio stuff, the, what each button does to be able to truly communicate what needs to be done.
17:57Um, but when we are, but we are able to communicate what we would want and what we want to try and
18:02where we want things to go in a way that he then can fill in the blanks in that. So he really makes
18:09it easy for you to be an artist. Uh, in that sense, it's very easy to work extremely hard with Jay.
18:16The good take to another one. Good take to another one. Good. Like that, that whole,
18:20I, it just, the flow of doing that, his discipline and his endurance. So what he puts his ears through
18:29so that we can put what we put our bodies through playing. It's just, it just flows, you know,
18:35he's a workhorse in that sense. And, and I speak for our band, like just with our values,
18:42what we, what we like, what we're into, what we don't eat and what we eat and whatever, you know,
18:47we just are very much in tune with each other and sync. And I'm, have a feeling that he's able
18:51to do that with, with most people he works with, you know, connect with them. So it's just a total
18:58package. And nowadays when no one is willing to pay for, for as much personnel as you would find on
19:03when Beatles did on the road and stuff, it's good to have a total package with the right attitude.
19:09As Jay is. Yeah. Jay said, uh, living in the forest for a month was amazing. Uh,
19:14I know you've probably talked to us before, but, uh, just, uh, for, for the folks here in Detroit,
19:18maybe you'll be watching us for the first time, whatever. Why did you guys decide to go in the
19:22middle of nowhere? Well, so it kind of goes back to the experience of having done how to gather,
19:27which was amazing. We went to Los Angeles. So, you know, that ultimately becomes the scent is the center
19:33of the music universe as far as in, and for entertainment in general, it's Hollywood,
19:38it's studio cities, all these things, right? So the resources and the vibe of the people who work
19:45there, who are just so very validating place to be and well-equipped, amazing and easy to find
19:54vegan food at any time of the day. And, uh, it was pretty sunny for us Swedes being there in December
20:00and everything awesome in every possible way. It wasn't for us, maybe a bit too awesome,
20:06as stupid as that sounds. Um, you had to pare it back a little bit. Yeah. Just that, you know,
20:13you feel you kind of, it's easy to pretend that you're recording thriller and you have Steve
20:17Lukather in there playing and you make slicker choices. I think that album sounds amazing. Um,
20:24yeah, the way the amazing way in the way it sounds amazing, it's very good, heavy, low end.
20:30And it's fancy. And I think we sacrificed aggression for that. And, uh, where I feel
20:37like that album should have, if you listen to, if you will listen to raw mixes, like just unmixed
20:43of the performances and what we actually did, that album is recorded live as far as, you know,
20:48the instrumentals go, but it just, we kind of, it sounds so quote unquote good that we kind of
20:54hide that fact, I feel. And this time it's more important to capture that gnarliness and, um,
21:01paraphrasing Jay to, you know, to get that more aggressive sound and guitar driven sound and,
21:07and to be down and dirty rock and roll with your metal and make the death metal riffs count for
21:12something. All those, that's a more mid range and mix actually between how to gather and dance,
21:18that will dance coming out. Cannibal Corpse released an album. And it was for me such a
21:23jolt to be reminded of how mean guitars could and should be, you know? And, uh, uh, so all that's
21:32built into wanting to have a different attitude in every part of it. Part of it, of course,
21:38what kind of songs we wrote more to the points, more, you know, consistent, maybe in the grooves,
21:45song by song. So that sense of focus and, uh, and combining that with a performance that again
21:54is a bunch of guys sitting, sweating in a room, but really capturing the sound of that, not just
21:59the performance of that. And, and to just be away from the world together like that, which was
22:03so pleasant, you know, we just, again, hiking, um, cooking for each other, uh,
22:12oak barrel hot tub. And, uh, I see living like a fancy little doomsday cult for, uh, for a month
22:18was very good stuff. Yeah. Jay had some great things to say about it as did, uh, as did, uh,
22:23George Jr. He said it was really a cool experience, but, um, Hey, a couple more things here for you.
22:27We'll cut you loose. And thanks for your time. I know you guys show here tonight. Uh,
22:30have you been following the world of wrestling? Uh, yeah, I always keep on, you know,
22:36here on the ground casually. So, you know, uh, but I'm not super up to date. I also like to listen
22:44to the podcast of people talking about how much better it was before. And I tend to agree,
22:49but you know, you gotta keep an ear on the ground. Yeah. I'm a, I'm an attitude era guy myself,
22:54you know, and, uh, actually I'm going to an independent show tonight. My friend, uh,
22:58Rhino is going to be wrestling. Do you remember Rhino?
22:59Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's from here. Maybe I'll have to bring him out when you guys
23:03play here in, um, at the Royal Oak music theater coming up. But, uh, uh, and of course,
23:07Dan Housen's from here. We'll have to see if we can get Dan Housen out to his show.
23:10He's had some surgery. But all right. Final thing here for you, since we are in hockey town,
23:14who's the greatest Swedish hockey player? Um,
23:18Oh, there are different kinds of looking at this Nacka Skoglund. Of course, if you look at early trailblazers,
23:25but for me, uh, going back to childhood, what he meant and then what, how he, what he was able to
23:33achieve in his NHL career and stuff, it, sorry, Detroit, but it has to be, uh, Peter Forsberg for me.
23:39Oh, okay. There you go. He's the Olympic gold in 94. Yeah. The Olympic gold in 94. And then,
23:47you know, a couple of Stanley cups there with the Avalanche and stuff. But then I know, I, uh,
23:52I know I'm cursing at church there and I do appreciate what a Sweden town Detroit is for, um,
24:00due to ice hockey. Um, so I know what I'm doing by saying this, but I just was eight years old and we
24:07were the best in the world. And then he, you know, did the NHL stuff and was one of the greatest there.
24:13And also I love the defensive tackles, the eyes in the neck. He was a Jedi, you know,
24:21people come from behind and somehow they weren't to tackle him, but somehow his shoulder always knocked
24:25them out. It was amazing. He was, uh, he was a great player. There's no question about it. Um,
24:29I had the good fortune of playing with Milan Aduk for a year last year. And, you know,
24:33you know, of course many years with, uh, with Forsberg and stuff, but, uh, he is too,
24:37but well, the new records out, uh, dance double dances out and, uh, we'll see you here in, uh,
24:42Detroit at the Royal Oak music theater coming up here in a month or so. And I'm looking forward to
24:47that a lot. Yeah. Thank you so much for your time. And I can hardly wait to see you back in,
24:51on the stage. Cause that's where you belong. As far as I'm concerned, it is where we belong.
24:55It is. Yeah. We need some good rituals over on your side of the pond as well. We'll bring it.
25:01All right. I'll bring some wrestlers. How about that? We'll start with that.
25:03Please do. Yeah. Still real to me, diamonds.
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