00:00It looks from this email as though where he says we will forward report shortly
00:06that by this stage you hadn't yet received the second site report. Do you
00:11recall that? I can't recall, no, but as I said earlier on we represented agents
00:19who had contracts for services, a franchise if you like, and we work
00:24closely with the Post Service to make that franchise as beneficial as we could
00:30for everyone concerned. But what it looks like is that you have drafted an
00:36announcement in respect of the second site report without in fact having
00:41received the report itself prior to receiving the report. I couldn't give you
00:47a definite, as I said it's a long time ago. You're reassured the system has been
00:56found to be robust in an independent survey, is it likely that you hadn't
01:00actually read the report by the time that that announcement was being
01:04drafted? I probably have read it, but I couldn't say, it's 12, 13 years ago, I mean I've
01:14read it a good few times. Mark Davis is here forwarding the report, did you
01:18ultimately read the second site report? Of course I did, yeah. We used them on a
01:25semi-regular basis and one particular case was some postmasters were being
01:31held liable for fraudulent green gyros, welfare benefit checks, and we were used
01:38and the social service, and we got a good result and the Post Service had to reimburse
01:43many of the postmasters the money. So we were aware of them and we used them for a few
01:50things, yes. So he's getting in touch with you and he says I've seen, heard, read the
01:54detail of the computer system fallout, do you need any advice on the legals here? I
01:59would be pleased to assist slash advise as appropriate. And you then forward that
02:05email to Paula Venels and others, if we scroll up, and you say hi folks, this is the type
02:10of mess we've created with the Horizon debacle, our tactics were totally misguided. This type
02:17of mess, the mess we've created, what is that, the mess you've created? Well I believe that
02:21I believe that the company we use, Anderson Southern, who are very good, that obviously
02:26the Federation tactics were wrong if they actually thought that we were wanting them
02:31to take the Post Service to court. Was the mess you created, or that we created, the
02:38instruction of Second Sight? No, not them. And their report? Because this comes just
02:43after the publication of their report. The mess we created was basically giving our lawyers
02:50the actual thoughts in their head that they thought we would engage them to take some
02:53kind of action against the Post Service. What's the Horizon debacle though? This is shortly
02:58after publication of the Second Sight report. The whole situation. Are you there referring
03:03to the fact that the Horizon, the Second Sight report, has identified issues with the Horizon
03:09system? No, the Federation tactics are the, in my opinion, the Horizon debacle for us.
03:14That our lawyers would be using for other things actually would think that we were coming
03:19from another direction from where we were, which was systemic, that the Horizon system
03:25was systemic and robust.
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