Catch up on all the latest political news from across Kent with Rob Bailey, joined by Reform Kent County Councillor Brian Collins and Medway Council Leader, Labour and Co-op's Vince Maple.
They looked back on a year of politics across Kent.
00:00Welcome to the last Kent politics show of 2025 on KMTV. I'm Rob Bailey and it's been the year
00:28of reform. The party won a landmark victory in May when it took control of Kent County Council,
00:34but it's been dogged since by leaks, rows and claims that its leaders want to dodge scrutiny.
00:39And there's more reform coming. All Kent councils will be scrapped in 2028 and replaced by something
00:45new. But does anyone agree on what that should look like? Megan Shaw reflects on a year of
00:50transformation. It's been nothing short of an eventful year for Kent politics, with May seeing
00:56Reform UK sweeping the ballot and snatching Kent County Council control from the long-standing
01:02Conservatives. We are here to serve the residents of Kent. Of course, reform came in on a ticket of
01:08saving money, getting value for money to the people of Kent, who of course pay our wages and pay for
01:14this amazing building here. But despite a fiery start, cracks have begun to show by October.
01:19Sometimes I will make a decision that might not be liked by everybody in the group. But I'm afraid
01:27you're just going to suck it up, OK? Because I am the democratically elected leader.
01:32Kent County Council was supposed to be the blueprint for what reform would deliver across the country.
01:38Now we can see what that means. Cutting local services, raising council tax, failing to protect the
01:44public. That's all reform have to offer. Grievance, division and total incompetence.
01:50And if there was one thing that both councils came together on, it was the possibility of
01:55International Rail Services returning to Kent. I'm delighted that Virgin has won this this bid,
02:01because on the day at this big event that we had at the end of September, I had a lovely chat with
02:06with one of the directors from Virgin who'd come down especially for the event. And he assured me that if
02:11they were successful, they would stop in Kent. Both Kent councils found themselves at the heart
02:17of a national conversation around English flags being strewn across the streets.
02:22It shows the feeling of a lot of the country at the moment. I think it's OK to have something like
02:29that, as long as it doesn't go too over the top, as long as they put their opinions across civilly.
02:36I think hopefully they can get communities together that can hopefully bring, rather than the division,
02:44it's bringing people close together. I think it's a wonderful thing if you want to put your national
02:48flag up, wherever you are, in your garden, you know, on the street, outside. I think it's an absolutely
02:54fantastic thing. We've taken down the flags. And look, I've got a bit of abuse online about that,
03:00but actually when I've come down the high street here in Chatham and elsewhere, you know, we put out
03:04a big video on a Friday. Over that weekend, more than 20 people stopped me and said, you've done the
03:09right thing. And this year also saw both councils put forward their vision for the future of Kent's
03:15local government. Option 4D, as it's called, is expected to cost £135.9 million to implement
03:22and to take between 8 and 15 years to pay off for the new councils. And it's not just squiggly lines on a map.
03:28This proposal redraws the boundaries of Kent. Here in Maidstone, at Kent County Council,
03:32they've also funded their own reorganisation proposal. They're looking at what's called
03:36Option 1A, a single unitary council for the entirety of Kent, with three so-called area
03:41committees sitting underneath it for everyone in Kent. They say this will cost the council £99.4
03:47million to implement and will pay off in about three years.
03:52And here with me in the studio is Brian Collins, deputy leader of reform at Kent County Council,
03:56and Vince Maple, leader of Medway Council for Labour. Thank you so much for joining us.
04:01You're welcome.
04:01It's been a busy year in politics, as they always are.
04:03Exciting.
04:04When we look back at 2025, do you think there might be an element of us looking back and
04:08thinking this was the year when Kent councils failed to find a unified idea of what the future
04:14of Kent politics should look like and missed an opportunity to define on behalf of all Kent's
04:20citizens what their governance would look like in future?
04:22I think the thing we've got to remember very much, it's not in the hands of either Medway
04:28Council or Kent County Council. This is going to be something which is dictated to us by the
04:33government. Now, something which I think we need to take into account is that, is it actually going to go
04:41ahead? We've seen lately the elections that are being cancelled, the four mayoral elections which
04:49have been cancelled in Norfolk, Suffolk, etc. We've just heard in the last couple of days about the
04:5563 councils that have been approached. Do they want to go ahead? So the trend with this government
05:04is for actually cancelling the elections. So I question, is LGR actually even going to go ahead?
05:09I have my doubts. Well, that's a good place for you to come in. Is it going to go ahead? Oh,
05:15absolutely it will. Can you guarantee us that? Absolutely, I will. And look, here's the thing,
05:20if the Labour Party were cancelling all elections, Brian, you wouldn't be a councillor. That's the truth
05:25of it. We had elections in May, not the result I would want to see. But as I always say, I congratulate
05:30anyone who wins an election. And I'm sure we'll talk about the administration's time to date. So look,
05:36LGR is happening. It's important for me to say, actually. Can you give us a guarantee on it?
05:42I'm guaranteeing. I'm guaranteeing the Secretary of State. Where do your facts come from to guarantee
05:48that? A letter from the Minister this week. You've heard that letter? As has Lyndon,
05:53Kim Karen and all other leaders involved in the processes. Guaranteeing that LGR is going ahead?
05:59Absolutely it is. Absolutely it is. Very, very clear on that. And look, from my perspective,
06:04I'm clear. For the residents of Kent and Medway, actually, local government reorganisation is a
06:09milestone as we move forward. Because for me, actually, the bigger prize is not local government
06:14reorganisation, although it's important. Actually, it's about devolution. It's about getting those
06:19powers, those resources to our communities. Things like public transport, things like the skills agenda,
06:25where at the moment, we are missing out. And we need to be grabbing those opportunities. But it was
06:30clear from government last year, sorry, earlier this year, I should say, that actually, for us to
06:36access that, for us to be part of that conversation, we need to be in a place where we don't have two
06:42upper-tier authorities. And that's where local government reorganisation for our region is really important.
06:47Kent is famously a difficult county to manage, isn't it? It's a big, diverse, largest in the country.
06:54It has enormous challenges around adult and child social care. We know it has challenges
06:58by the fact that it's a border county. And we've had an opportunity here for councils across Kent
07:03to come up with the best way for us to manage ourselves. The fact of the matter is that KCC
07:08put forward its own plan, which kind of came about at the last minute. Medway Council put
07:13forward a plan that other councils have said is a kind of raid on their territory and they don't
07:17think it'll work. Is the squabbling going to eventually harm what happens for residents in the future?
07:23I could not give an input on that. I think the problem that's happening with the different ideas
07:29that have come from different parts of, you know, the county, is I think there's a lot of self-protection
07:35out there. Obviously, if we went with our idea, which is one authority with three, I'll call them
07:43branches, but that's not the correct term. Someone like my colleague here, you know, is not possibly
07:51going to be so safe in this position. You know, not even talking about, you know, the national
07:56political theme at the moment. So I do feel that there's a lot of protectionism going on here.
08:02And when you look at the financial analysis of the breakdown of what it will cost to do the
08:09individual plans, our plan clearly comes out financially better, but it's not going to
08:15protect some people's careers. So look, respectfully, Brian, there are five options on the table.
08:21If you look across the rest of England, there's not a single place in England that's come up with
08:24one option. Actually, those from the local government family more broadly have recognised positively
08:30the constructive approach that all 14 councils have taken. I don't want to recognise that,
08:35you know, from the most politically diverse county in the country, we've come forward in a way which
08:41is positive. Even this week, we've sent a collective letter from the 14 of us saying devolution matters.
08:47The problem for Brian and his team is this. Actually, of the five options, four are compliant
08:55with what government are asking for. Now, I have an option which I prefer, that's well documented,
08:59but I recognise that three of the other options would be perfectly acceptable to the process.
09:04The one that isn't is actually the one that Brian and his colleagues from Reform are
09:09putting forward. And why is that important? Because of the point I made earlier on about
09:13devolution. It is not compliant with getting to a devolution situation. So actually,
09:18Reform UK and Kent are stopping us having that access to public transport, to skills,
09:24to those agendas which are important to residents across the region.
09:28I'll come back on that from a financial aspect. If it was divided up into four areas. Now, we all know
09:35the demographic of Kent is very varied. You go over to East Kent, where you've got Folkestone,
09:41Hyde, you get into Thanet. Demographically, it contributes less financially to the county,
09:49but it takes a lot more out. Whereas we go over to the west side, where you've got Tunbridge,
09:55they would be quite well off on a four split unitary. But East Kent would almost be,
10:02can I use the word bankrupt before it starts? So to do it that way would be, you know,
10:08the East Kent side would be really at a disadvantage. And this is not taking into account when you look at
10:15subjects like adult social care, which Kent County Council has always handled.
10:21The other tiers of authorities that we've got, they're not used to dealing with the adult social
10:27care. I need to bring you in because there's an economy of scale issue, isn't there? The more
10:31unitaries there are, the more difficult that gets. But let's look at it. You know,
10:34we talk about wanting to empower communities. You know, I think, look, look at the two most recent
10:39scores on adult social care. And it's, and it's not a competition, but Medway did have a higher score
10:44in its rating than Kent. So from that perspective, actually a unitary authority with that closer
10:49focus and that ability for the council to work collaboratively. If you go to anywhere else in
10:54the county at the moment, you can pick up the phone, phone a councillor and they may well say,
10:58I'm sorry, that's not me. That's the other council for the area. That's not efficient.
11:03In Medway for nearly 30 years, you live in Chatham, you're phoning me, whatever your issue,
11:08I'm helping you with it. That's not the case. So actually bringing forward multiple unitary authorities,
11:13which are close to the community, but big enough to be able to make that difference.
11:16We've only got a very short amount of time. That's important.
11:18What I'm going to come back on that with is the problem with adult social care is, yes,
11:23it's dealt with by the local authorities, but the demand on adult social care roughly around
11:29the country is increasing by 10% a year. This is becoming a national problem. And it's government
11:35that needs to actually start having more of an input on the finances.
11:39That's it. It's time for a short break. When we come back,
11:42why are we still in a cost of living crisis? Stay with us.
11:51Stay with us.
12:08Stay with us.
12:13Stay with us.
20:17Now, obviously, we're not here today to talk about particular financial policies, but some
20:24of our policies, when we get into government in about two years' time, will put this right.
20:30But at the moment, unfortunately, this government have broken their manifesto promises on many
20:36things.
20:37Taxes have gone up, national insurance contributions have gone up for employers.
20:43Taxes meant that that's harder for employers to bring in new staff, they can't afford to
20:48do so.
20:49People are very nervous, and this is what is contributing to the crisis at the moment.
20:53I suppose part of that is then, as you say, for every positive metric, you can find a
20:58negative one.
20:59Half of low-income households are turning off their heating this winter because they can't
21:03afford to keep their house warm.
21:04Five million households skipping meals to save money from the Joseph Roundtree Foundation,
21:08for example.
21:09Most families include people in Medway, people across Kent.
21:13But all of this is part of a big picture, Brian.
21:15You're saying about breaking manifesto promises, putting up taxes.
21:18The next thing on the agenda here, for an awful lot of Kent families, is what's going to happen
21:22to my council tax bill next year?
21:23Am I going to be asked to pay more again from another authority saying that they need more
21:27money?
21:28And there is a suspicion that, when it comes to it, that a 4.9% rise will come in at both
21:34Kent and potentially Medway next year.
21:36I've been quite intrigued over the last few weeks, the way that everybody seems to know
21:41what Kent's going to be doing about council tax, apart from the people that are actually
21:45going to make the decision.
21:47And I'm one of those people.
21:49We've just had the fair funding report in.
21:52Haven't had a chance to look at it properly.
21:54It came in very late on Wednesday afternoon.
21:57We had full council yesterday, which obviously took up most of the day.
22:00We've seen the figures.
22:03We're analysing them at the moment.
22:05When I leave here, I'll be going into the office and we'll carry on doing that.
22:09And hopefully, early in the new year, we will make a decision.
22:13But there has been, and I want to clarify that, because everybody, apart from the decision
22:18makers, seems to know what we're going to be doing.
22:21There has been no decision made on council tax yet.
22:24Hopefully, we'll be announcing that in the new year.
22:26Well, I have to say, look, I've seen some of the literature that went out from Brian's
22:30party in the run-up to May.
22:32There will be broken promises, undoubtedly.
22:35Not on any literature I've seen.
22:37Well, no, I can absolutely...
22:38We did not say that we would be putting council tax down in the first year of administration.
22:44Well, let's...
22:45Show me a piece of literature that said that.
22:46Well, let's see what things were being put out in places like...
22:49Did you see a piece of literature that said that?
22:50Places like Folkestone and Hive, which were also breaking the law because it had the Kent County
22:54Council logo on it, which you shouldn't have in party political literature.
22:57I think we're straying off the topic now.
22:59But the point is this.
23:00I'm very clear.
23:02When we stood for election for 2023, we said we'd have the lowest council tax in Kent.
23:06We've continued to deliver that.
23:08But that is recognising that because of the financial pressures, because of, frankly,
23:1215 years of austerity to local government, the maximum possible increase would be year
23:18on year.
23:18We will put council tax up by 4.99% in Medway.
23:23I have no problem saying that because that's the working assumption.
23:26Now, actually, that's the working assumption the government has when Brian and I and all
23:31financial portfolio holders are going through that.
23:34And that's a reasonable assumption because, again, it's about everybody playing their fair share.
23:39Could I just ask you a question, Vince?
23:40You tried to accuse us of breaking manifesto promises, which I explained we haven't done.
23:46Not yet.
23:48Not yet.
23:48Let's see what happens in February.
23:50So, if you claim that we have, would that justify the manifesto promises that the government
23:55has broken?
23:56Well, look, I think one thing that you and I and Rachel Reeves have all got in common...
24:02Not a lot, I don't think.
24:03No, no.
24:04If we're all dealing with the financial mess by a previous Conservative administration,
24:08maybe you don't think the previous...
24:10I'll agree.
24:11There we go.
24:11So, from that perspective...
24:13It's being compounded.
24:14I mean, look, if we're going to talk nationally, look at the growth figures.
24:18She stood there in the budget and said that this budget was about growth.
24:23Growth has been virtually stagnant apart from one month in the last seven months.
24:29That's not creating growth, is it?
24:32All we've heard from Rachel Reeves is about, I'm going to create growth.
24:36I'm going to create growth.
24:39Growth has stagnated.
24:40Now, there's been a little reduction in inflation yesterday.
24:48We wait to see...
24:480.4%, quite substantial.
24:50Quite substantial.
24:50In the scheme of things, let's see if that's a blip, because we had a blip with a growth
24:54of 0.1% a couple of months ago.
24:57The problem is, Rachel Reeves is out of her depth.
25:02No, I disagree with that.
25:03I disagree with that.
25:04Steering the conversation back towards Ken.
25:06I mean, you find yourself in a bit of a dilemma, don't you?
25:08Because even if you didn't make a black and white pledge to say that the counter-tax would
25:13come down, you certainly gave the impression that it wouldn't go up by very much.
25:17And you find yourself in a position where if it doesn't go up, if you hold it low, then
25:21politically you gain.
25:23But if you don't let it go up, potentially public services suffer, don't they?
25:26Let's clarify this.
25:28Now, I'm not saying that I saw every election brochure for every constituency in Kent, but
25:34the ones I saw said, reform will cut taxes.
25:41Didn't say council tax, and I'm not saying we're not going to.
25:44I'm not saying we are.
25:45It said we will cut taxes.
25:47It didn't give a timeline on that.
25:49We didn't make false promises.
25:52That is fully our intention, whether it be a local government or when we take over a
25:57national government, to bring the tax...
25:59We've only got a very short time, Vincent.
26:01This is an election leaflet for an election that you were standing in, you've now been
26:04elected as a deputy leader.
26:05Are you saying that the leaflets that were put out were nothing to do with the election
26:08that people were voting for?
26:09No, we said we would reduce taxes.
26:11We didn't put a timeline on it.
26:13And remember, we haven't made a decision yet.
26:16You've got a term till the end of your term, so let's see what happens.
26:18But I think people will be disappointed when they see what comes, because of the expectations
26:23your candidates gave.
26:25I will be disappointed if we're not able to make an improvement on the tax situation
26:29in Kent.
26:30On that, that's all we have time for here at the Kent Politics Show for 2025.
26:35Thank you to both of my guests for coming in.
26:37We'll see you in the new year, but stay tuned for Kent tonight, coming up next.
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