- 3 days ago
Catch up on all the latest political news from across Kent with Alfie Reynolds, joined by KCC councillors, Mark Hood, Leader of the Green Group and expelled Reform councillor Bill Barrett.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to the Kemp Politics Show live on KMTV. I'm Alfie Rowe. This week has been one of new
00:28political groupings and party anniversaries. With it being six months since Reform UK took charge
00:33of Kent County Council, we thought it'd be a good idea to reflect on how they're doing so far.
00:39But first, following the explosive leaked video of KCC leader Lyddon Kemkaren swearing and shouting
00:45during a virtual meeting with members, five Reform UK councillors were expelled from the party.
00:51Now, one of that select five has announced he will set up a rival grouping. Ashford member Bill Barrett
00:56has said that he's in the early stages of creating a grouping of independent reformers at County
01:01Hall. Our local democracy reporter Olly Leder asked the council leader Lyddon Kemkaren for her reaction.
01:07The independent reformers being led by Bill Barrett. Any thoughts for this new party? Any worries that
01:13some of your backbenchers may want to jump ship? No, not really. Why is that? Because we are united
01:21and we are strong and we are determined to carry on the good work that we are doing for the people of
01:25Kent. Now, council leader Lyddon Kemkaren was asked to join us here in person today but declined. But
01:32as a part of our panel, we are joined by the man himself, Bill Barrett, as well as councillor Mark
01:37Wood, leader of the Greens at Kent County Council. Bill, let's start with you. In your own words,
01:44what motivated this announcement? In simple terms, we need to create a viable and safe place for the
01:53expelled members of reform to feel they have companionship, the opportunity to speak their
01:58mind at KCC and most importantly, to hold the executive to account. In simple terms, that is it.
02:06But there is also the aspect here that if we just sit on the back benches as independents,
02:10the constitution offers us no safe haven, no protection. We have no appointments on committees
02:17and we really will struggle to influence the outcome of future decisions at KCC. From my
02:22perspective, it was a no-brainer to do this. Whoever wants to join me from the expelled is welcome.
02:28Whoever doesn't want to join me is welcome to sit alongside me at the back benches of KCC.
02:33Members must and should be treated with respect at all points in time.
02:36And I have to ask, has there been any contact with the other reformers to thrash out a plan
02:41of action and kind of set up this group going forward?
02:44There has been contact, which in an open mic session like this, obviously they're private
02:48conversations. I wouldn't want to elucidate on this point in time. But the answer is yes,
02:54we have had conversations. It will initially start with myself and Councillor Robert Ford.
02:59I believe two will quickly become three or four. And the offer is extended to all members of the
03:05back benches of reform currently, who are decent, loyal, hardworking members that have simply taken
03:11the absolute oath and privilege of running for office and all they want to do is serve their
03:15residence. Myself and Councillor Ford have absolutely no problem with the loyal back
03:19benches of reform. And we have no problem whatsoever. And they must choose their own
03:23destinies like myself and Councillor Ford must.
03:26And do you feel that the ousting of you and your fellow reform members was deserved?
03:30No, I believe that we all spoke in private and we believe that those conversations were in private.
03:36But secondly, and maybe more importantly, the expulsion of what I am calling the Maidstone
03:40Six occurred because of a leak to the Guardian, which the hierarchy at KCC will admit they have
03:46no idea who leaked it. We have no idea who leaked it. Now, when you're expelled for one thing,
03:53but the accusation from the leader of the council is that you've committed another offence,
03:57I think that's disingenuous. And just last thing before moving on to Mark,
04:01are you the leader of this new grouping being formed?
04:03Yes. And are you the leaker which is responsible for all this entire scandal around the KCC?
04:10100% not. No? No. Okay, we can confirm that on record. And Mark, moving on to you getting you
04:16involved, your fellow Green councillor, Stuart Jeffrey from Maidstone, has called for the four
04:20expelled reform councillors in Maidstone, rather than being allowed to continue on as an independent
04:24grouping to resign their seats and for by-elections to be called immediately. Do you agree with this
04:30sentiment? And if so, should the same thing be extended to Ashford's Bill Barrett?
04:35Well, when Amelia Randall jumped ship to UKIP, I commented that actually people had voted for
04:42Nigel in that division, and they got nasty Nick Tencomi from UKIP, which is a very different party.
04:48And so we called for a by-election there. I know that Bill's previously been, or he's currently
04:55a councillor. So in his case, people knew him in the community. So kind of some of those people
05:01will have voted for Bill as a person. But in most cases, people have actually voted for those
05:08candidates. They voted for reform. They voted for Nigel. They haven't voted for the candidates.
05:14They would have been unaware of the background of a lot of those candidates. And I know that
05:19from canvassing in my own division. So I think there is, I think Stuart's call for by-elections
05:26is a credible one that needs to be considered. I've got some sympathy for the members who've
05:33been expelled. It doesn't seem to have been due process. In the Green Party, we've got quite
05:38a long process before you get to expulsion. And that doesn't seem, there seems to be a
05:43knee-jerk reaction. And it's going to be counterproductive as well, because reform have come in on a platform
05:49to cut cost. If this new group manages to get up to five members, actually they get, the leader
05:56gets an allowance, they get their own room, and they get a support officer. We're talking about
06:01an additional £50,000 potentially. And this is completely self-inflicted by Lyndon Kankaran.
06:09But if, I know you're the leader of the Greens, but if, for example, you got caught up in this
06:14and, you know, political disagreements happen in every party, would you, in this similar situation,
06:19having been expelled, expect for an immediate by-election and for you to resign your seat?
06:24Does that seem fair? Which, by your own admission, you do think the process by which these councillors
06:28have been expelled has been unfair? I think you, we, there's two things here. You vote for a candidate
06:34and you vote for a party. People have voted for me as a person and as a Green, as a Green councillor.
06:43In many of these situations, I've got a track record. A lot of these candidates didn't have a track record.
06:50They've been voted in as Reform UK members. So I think it's a very different scenario.
06:58People vote for me because they know that I work hard in my community on that track record.
07:03And as I made the point about Bill, Bill's an established politician and representative in his community.
07:10The same isn't true for a lot of those other members, especially when you look at people like Amelia Randall.
07:17I mean, she's now representing a far-right party. This isn't what people have voted for.
07:23Well, to be honest, she's not here to defend herself, but I might ask Bill. Bill, do you agree, obviously,
07:28I've heard about your own track record as a councillor, but do you agree with the sentiment about the less experienced members
07:33of the independent movement here?
07:36When you say the independent movement, do you mean the backbenchers that reform?
07:38Yes, the independent reformers that you're grouping.
07:40Well, actually, funnily enough, I've always thought that many of the most experienced reformers were kept away from the Cabinet.
07:46People like Maxine Fothergill, people like Paul Thomas. I was given, literally, for seven weeks before Ken Cameron moved me,
07:53I was given the biggest portfolio in the United Kingdom in a local government authority.
07:57That transport department was the biggest.
08:01But many of the most experienced politicians that, as Mark says, have got local backgrounds, local experience,
08:07were never near the Cabinet. The bulk of the Cabinet is inexperienced.
08:10Now, as I said before, Alfie, I have no problem with the backbench reformers as people, as hard-working, decent reform members,
08:19and I will certainly not get into personal comments or discussion about them at all, and I hope they do the same to me.
08:24But the reality of it is, is a lot of the mistakes that have been made have come down to a lack of experience.
08:29But do you think that, do you understand the argument that, you know, the current Ken County Council, as it stands,
08:35was built on this wave in which brought reform into power at the council level,
08:39and that some people might be grieved by the fact that I voted for a reform councillor and now I have an independent,
08:45and, you know, is this not democracy failing on the local level?
08:49I think the answer to that, Alfie, is let's turn the clock back three weeks,
08:53let's let Lyndon rethink her decisions, and then let's let her not expel six members, OK?
08:59If she thinks it through for longer, she wouldn't have made that mistake.
09:03I didn't expel myself. I didn't expel Councillor Bob Ford, Brian Black, Maxine Favgill, Paul Thomas, etc.
09:09etc. She did that, not me.
09:12And, but running on this platform of being representatives, how do you think,
09:17what distinguishes your grouping at this point in time?
09:19Surely people are just going to look at this new grouping and go,
09:21well, is this not just Reform UK with a grudge against Reform UK?
09:25Is that not just what your platform is?
09:27I have no grudges against Reform UK.
09:30I ran on that platform and I was elected on that platform.
09:32The grudge I have is with the KCC hierarchy and with the way that the complaints have been dealt with,
09:38the way that human beings have been dealt with and the lack of respect, OK?
09:42I personally, at this stage in our new grouping, do not want to get into a discussion about what's right
09:48and what's wrong with a political group because they've expelled us.
09:50Our time in Reform has come to an end.
09:53We have to now make our own decisions and our own destinies moving forwards.
09:56We have no other option.
09:57The only other option, Alfie, is to sit on the back benches with very, very little influence
10:01and there's now six of us.
10:03You've got to understand that people like Paul Thomas and Maxine Fothergill,
10:06Paul was a chairman of a committee.
10:08Maxine Fothergill has got a lot of experience.
10:11Maxine Fothergill broke down in tears outside Sessions' house when it happened
10:14and they've tried to rescue their careers within Reform.
10:16Unfortunately, it hasn't happened.
10:18And I cannot see Reform UK accepting anyone that's been expelled back into the party,
10:23well, for the foreseeable future,
10:25because they will look like bigger fools than they already look now.
10:28That's the truth of the matter.
10:29And, Mark, do you agree with the sentiment that this independent grouping can stand for itself
10:33and not just be a Reform UK with a grudge?
10:38Well, I understand why Bill wants to form a group
10:41because otherwise they will have no influence.
10:44They won't be able to sit on committees.
10:45So that's a problem.
10:46I think there's a wider problem that the media isn't picking up on here
10:50is a lot of our councillors at KCC also sit on the Kent Fire and Rescue Authority.
10:57Brian Black is the chair of that authority.
11:00Two of the others, I think three of the others, are actually members of the Fire Authority.
11:05So this is destabilising organisations outside of Kent County Council.
11:11And this is very, this is chaotic.
11:14These are senior figures within the party that have been removed.
11:19And I'm not sure that, as I said, that there's been due process.
11:23Yeah, I agree.
11:24I couldn't agree more with Mark there.
11:25I mean, we haven't just had people expelled.
11:27We've had people expelled, Alfie,
11:29that have been doing senior positions and getting paid for it.
11:32So you've got a situation now of localised chaos.
11:34And the localised chaos cannot continue indefinitely
11:37because as local representatives, we are there to represent the people.
11:41And we cannot represent the people if we're surrounded by chaos every morning when we wake up.
11:45And we're going to have to cut it short there.
11:46It's time for a short break.
11:48But when we come back, we'll continue on the subject, Kent County Council,
11:51and discuss reform majority control, six months on.
15:37All of our energies have been focused on choosing the right person to lead this group into the future.
15:43We've already made history.
15:45It was just six months ago at Kent County Council, the Reform UK swept the local elections.
15:50They won 57 out of a possible 81 council seats, painting county hall turquoise in the process.
15:59But six months is a long time in politics, and since then, we've seen suspensions, expulsions, and infighting dominating the local and national headlines when it comes to our local upper tier authority.
16:15I'm just asking you.
16:16I'm just asking you.
16:17Well, you are.
16:18That's exactly what you're asking you to do.
16:19No, no, no, no, no.
16:20But what do the people that voted for them think?
16:22Are they going to give them any leeway after their first six months?
16:27And do they think that time was a success?
16:30I was really disappointed with the other party.
16:32Erm, I voted for Reform.
16:34I'm sorry.
16:35You got me there.
16:36You got me there.
16:37I'm afraid.
16:38This is the first six months of Reform UK in the eyes of the people of Kent.
16:46Back in May, over 17,000 people turned up at the polling booths on the Isle of Sheppey.
16:53And of those, nearly 10,000 voted for Reform candidates.
16:59Are those same people now feeling any buyer's remorse?
17:04Yes, exactly, yeah.
17:06Why is that?
17:08What's gone wrong?
17:09They can't seem to run a council, let alone a country.
17:13I think it's fantastic.
17:15I was all for it.
17:16And if they keep the promises that they've made, even better.
17:20I think in all parties you get arguments and people fall out for one another.
17:27I think at the moment people are finding their feet.
17:31And I think once things settle down, it'll be okay.
17:35We needed something different than that definitely from what we've had and that.
17:38So that's why I thought.
17:39But now I'm not, I don't know, I'm not 100% certain sort of what they've done to be honest
17:45with you.
17:46Are you getting a bit of buyer's remorse?
17:48A little bit, yes.
17:50The hint of a sea change in public opinion on the shores of Sheerness.
17:57But further inland, a different story is taking shape.
18:03Maidstone is the county town and they did elect quite a few reform councillors.
18:09Some of whom have now been expelled from the party.
18:14Even Lyndon Kemkaren, the leader of the council, is a Maidstone councillor though for the South East Division.
18:23Do people on the streets of Maidstone support the new party at County Hall?
18:29And do they think they've been doing a good job?
18:32We can't really tell, can we?
18:34I mean, and that's for them arguing.
18:35I can't see that's anything to worry about really.
18:37Because I mean, we all get, we all get a bit hard on the collar at times, don't we?
18:42So no buyer's remorse as of yet?
18:46No, no, no, no.
18:47And I hope they go further.
18:49I hope they go further.
18:51You know, you sort of hope they do the right thing.
18:54But I suppose they've started to try and do potholes and other things.
18:59But no, I think, I think they do the best.
19:05That's all I can say.
19:07I'm sure everybody will give reform a chance.
19:12But it just seems to be that when they get the chance,
19:16they don't know quite what to do with the situation.
19:19Personally, the way I see it is Labour couldn't do it.
19:24Conservatives couldn't do it.
19:26So let's give another party a chance, see what they do.
19:31And hopefully they can.
19:33And let's just go from there.
19:35A county divided, much like the party overseeing it.
19:39But the leader of Kent County Council says the last six months have still been a success.
19:47It's been a huge success.
19:48Yes, we've had our ups and downs.
19:49We're a brand new political party.
19:51We achieved an historic win back in May, taking control of the whole council.
19:56There were bound to be a few hiccups along the way.
19:58But do you know what?
19:59That's yesterday's news.
20:00Because as you can see, it is business as usual.
20:02There's still big questions hanging in the air.
20:06There's a £2.5 billion budget to set sooner rather than later.
20:12And many people on our high streets are wondering,
20:16will the next six months be smoother than the last?
20:21The last.
20:22Oli Leda at County Hall.
20:25Now, as I said, sadly, Reform UK declined to join us here today.
20:32But I'm happy still to be joined by Mark and Bill Barrett in the studio.
20:35Mark, let's start with you.
20:36We heard Lyndon say there that she's defined the first six months of her tenure as a complete success.
20:41Do you agree with this assessment?
20:43No, we've had clickbait, chaos and cultural wars and that's been the dominant feature as far as I'm concerned.
20:49Instead of looking at the core functions of the council, how we can serve our community and our people,
20:56we've had a series of distractions and I think that's been the fundamental problem.
21:02We wanted to come together and to work collaboratively and we're not seeing any of that at all.
21:07And all we're seeing is a series of broken promises and false claims, false financial claims of cuts.
21:14Doge is done.
21:15We need to move on from this rubbish and actually concentrate on the important thing of setting a budget that's going to protect services.
21:22I want to go on to the Doge point in a minute, but to start with that, this idea of, you know, chaos and infighting.
21:28As we saw there in the clip, some people say, well, you know, we all get hot under the collar sometimes
21:33and, you know, this kind of shows they just care about their job.
21:35Would you agree with this assessment and is it fair to give them this tough of a ride?
21:39I've been a member of a political group at Tumbridge Morning Borough Council and KCC.
21:45I've never ever had to raise my voice.
21:48I've never had a meeting where you've had that kind of being told to, you know, suck it up.
21:57Really?
21:58This isn't leadership.
21:59You bring people with you.
22:01If you're a leader, you reach out.
22:03You seek collaboration and cooperation from other parties and your colleagues.
22:08And we've seen a chasm, a crevasse open up between the leader and their own group.
22:13So much so that there's eight members have been shed in six months.
22:18This isn't the sign of a healthy administration.
22:24And Bill, obviously your time with Reform UK is now over, but do you have any positive feedback from your first six months with them?
22:31That's a good question.
22:34Where are the positives?
22:35Well, it was an experience for a whole seven weeks, holding the largest portfolio in local government in the United Kingdom.
22:42I love the honour of it.
22:44I love the responsibility.
22:45I love the pothole recovery strategy that Lyndon Kemkaren turned into reforming Kent's roads.
22:50I loved working with the officers, but the experience was stressful.
22:54I lost weight.
22:55I lost sleep.
22:56And obviously after being abused in someone's office for 45 minutes and then walking out and then going to the press and telling an untruth about me and the way that that ended is just not acceptable.
23:07And I do agree with Mark that this situation can't continue much longer because it is chaos.
23:12But ultimately Reform UK at KCC are in charge and they have to determine how best to run KCC because they have the majority.
23:19So, you know, the rudder's in their hands.
23:22And I think the future will be a key indicator of what happens.
23:26And by that, I mean, let's just wait and watch.
23:28That's what we'll be doing on the backbench is waiting, watching and holding the executive to account.
23:33Well, obviously, Mark, as you were talking about earlier, they made headlines when they came in for installing the Department of Local Government efficiency.
23:40Yeah.
23:41As someone who is, you know, sitting in the council, what is your opinion of this so far?
23:46Has there been much transparency with how it's been doing this process?
23:49When Zia Yusuf came in with Banks and the other team member, every single one of the claims that they made about the inefficiencies and wastefulness of the county council,
24:02were actually undone.
24:04We debunked them and then a paper was brought by the Dolge team, by Matthew Fraser-Mote.
24:10And he admitted this was all completely incorrect, completely groundless.
24:16And since then, we've had a series of claims about savings, which have been completely untrue.
24:22EVs, £7.5 million to be saved on EVs. That was from 2028. There's no additional cost in transitioning over.
24:33It is completely the same kind of price for conventional vehicles or EVs.
24:38County Hall, they're saying we're going to save £40 million because we're not going to be refurbishing in Victor House.
24:45Well, we're going to be saddled with a £67 million price for refurbishment over the road at County Hall.
24:53These claims are completely groundless. It's a real shame that we can't just concentrate on the serious business of setting a budget and looking at the practical steps that we need to take to get the council on a firm footing.
25:11Because we've got huge challenges that if we don't sort this out, we're going to be in the hands of the government's commissioners that are going to come in if we have to sign a 114 notice because the council has run out of money.
25:26It's as blunt as that.
25:28And talking about moving into them needing to set a budget and there have been a bunch of, you know, allusions to what might happen ahead of time, for example, council tax hikes have been suggested.
25:37Bill, what do you think of these proposals and what would you like to see from this council moving forward?
25:42I'd like to see a little bit of respect from the reform front bench towards the colleagues to work in a difficult scenario in a difficult situation to find a coherent policy and plan going forwards.
25:54I think personally what's happened is the front bench at Reform UK feel that they're in a battle.
25:59I think they're bombastic and combative.
26:01I think what they should understand is that they're now elected as representatives and they have to represent the residents.
26:06And that means working with colleagues.
26:08You know, they did have 57 members.
26:10That's reduced.
26:11But the opposition has members.
26:12They're hardworking people that were elected on decent, decent policies and decent reasons.
26:18And when you get into County Hall, you have to work together for the best outcome.
26:21And then when it comes to election time, you will basically squabble to try and get reelected.
26:26But in that four year period, if you don't work together, you have chaos.
26:29And that's what we've got.
26:30Simple chaos.
26:31And on that point, we'll have to leave it there.
26:34That's all from us here on the Kent Politics Show.
26:36Thank you very much for our guests for coming in tonight into the studio.
26:39We'll be back next Friday, but stay with us because Kent Tonight is coming up next with all the latest news across the county.
26:45Have a great evening.
26:46Good night.
26:47Good night.
26:59Good night.
27:01Keep waiting right now.
27:03Good night.
27:05Have a great evening.
27:06Bye-bye.
27:07Have a great day.
27:08Take care.
27:09Bye-bye.
27:10Bye-bye.
27:11Bye-bye.
27:12Happy Saturday,
27:15Good night.
27:15Bye-bye.
Recommended
27:09
|
Up next
26:59
27:09
27:00
27:31
27:00
27:00
27:53
27:01
27:00
27:07
27:14
27:00
27:09
29:18
24:00
Be the first to comment