- 2 months ago
Catch up on all the latest political news from across Kent with Kristin Hawthorne joined by Andy Richards KMTV' channel Director, Local Democracy Reporter Dan Esson, Local Labour Councillor Jonathon Hawkes and Local Conservative Councillor Danny Nicklen.
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00:00Welcome to the Kemp Politics show on KMTV. I'm Kristen Hawthorne. Coming up later, we'll discuss
00:27whether a petition can bring back international trains to Kent. But first this week, the spotlight
00:32has been on intimidation of journalists. In the US, TV host Jimmy Kimmel was briefly taken off air
00:38and Donald Trump suggested that negative coverage of his presidency should be illegal. Here in Kent
00:44though, protesters who claim to represent British values pushed toilet paper into the face of local
00:50democracy reporter Ollie Leader. A Facebook video of the incident was liked by two senior reform
00:54councillors at Kent County Council. Here's Ollie to explain what happened.
00:58It's not every day someone waves used toilet paper in your face when you're simply approaching
01:13them to get their point of view. Or that incident getting tens of thousands of views on Facebook.
01:23But the abuse I received from Harry Hilden, one of the principal organisers behind a wave of
01:30anti-immigration protests in the county, is far from a unique experience for me or my colleagues.
01:37You can never trust a lefty with your kids!
01:41Traitor! Traitor! Traitor! Traitor! You're not safe! You're not safe! You're not safe! You're not safe!
01:51Traitor! Traitor! Traitor! This is just a snapshot of what covering the march in Canterbury over the weekend was like.
02:02A result of being singled out early in the day by organisers. Something which made reflecting the views
02:09of demonstrators there incredibly difficult. All these mainstream media are so utterly woke.
02:16The backlash had started online a few weeks ago after we reported about hundreds descending on the
02:23streets of Faversham. But this new video circulating has been widely shared and even liked by two senior
02:32figures within Kent County Council. With Chairman Richard Palmer claiming he hadn't watched the full clip.
02:40While Peter Osborne, the Cabinet Member for Highways and Transport, has been reached for comment.
02:47It was completely and utterly outrageous because it looks like an endorsement of that behaviour.
02:54And I saw in the Kent Online article that Richard Palmer said he made a mistake and okay we all make mistakes.
03:01But if you hold an important position like Chairman of Kent County Council, you need to be careful about
03:06the social media content you interact with. Kent County Council buildings have been at the heart of
03:13protests in Canterbury and Faversham. Demonstrators at the weekend were marching to Connor's house,
03:20which looks after unaccompanied asylum-seeking children.
03:24I just find it absolutely incredible that any person, any ounce of compassion would march on a children's home.
03:32You know, I find it almost astonishing that anyone would even do that.
03:39Just teenage boys in this home, not anything else. Would you much guess you're in teenage children?
03:47Absolutely disgraceful. The leader of the city council was just one of more than 100 counter-protesters
03:55organised by stand-up to racism, though this was far from the only pushback.
04:00While protesters chanted in the Cathedral City, a wave of deflagging was underway in Faversham.
04:12Where colleagues also faced intimidation.
04:15And yes, I'll be honest, as a woman in her mid-fifties, I felt anxious about coming over here today,
04:38but felt really strongly that we need to be visible. We absolutely need to be visible. It's not going to go away.
04:43After a summer of discontent, the anger that I witnessed on Saturday didn't come as a surprise.
04:51Caught between two increasingly polarised world views, it's easy to see how a journalist like myself
04:58can so easily be caught in the crossfire. Olly Lieder in Canterbury.
05:04Well, to discuss reactions to that, joining me now is Andy Richards, KMTV director and Dan Essam,
05:13one of the local democracy reporters who was there with Olly at the protest. First of all,
05:17can we go to Dan and ask what the protest was like? You were there covering, like I said,
05:22for the local democracy reporting service.
05:24Yeah, so it was pretty standard there for these kinds of things, basically. Lots of chanting,
05:30shouting, drumming, lots of vulgarity, slogans, which don't really bear repeating on television.
05:35Quite ill-tempered, but as opposed to the one that we covered in Faversham a few weeks ago,
05:39there was a pretty heavy police presence right from the start. Everyone was kept quite separate,
05:43if we could ever. So there wasn't much opportunity for the opposing sides to get up in each other's faces,
05:48unlike in Faversham, where for the few weeks ago, where for the first sort of half an hour or so,
05:53there were very few police around and a couple of us were concerned that it could end up getting
05:57quite ugly because people were pretty much right up in each other's faces. But yeah, it was peaceful
06:02as far as it goes, no violence. I don't think there were any arrests or anything like that,
06:06just lots of shouting of abuse and so on, but that's pretty normal, these things.
06:11Yeah, so it doesn't sound like you were surprised. Andy, were you surprised?
06:14Well, look, I'm here to talk to you as the channel director here, not as a journalist,
06:20so as Ollie's, Ollie in particular, his boss. I thought the abuse that he received was abhorrent.
06:30I think he was trying to do his job. He was trying to get an opinion from both sides of the protests.
06:40But from my opinion, the way that I can see this is that if they really want to tackle the issues,
06:48or really want to tackle these types of issues, they need to listen to both sides of the argument.
06:55And what it feels more like, you know, I was trying to explain this to friends and family,
06:59it's like what you've witnessed on the terraces in football matches in the 80s and 90s,
07:06where hooligans would turn up to football matches and not watch football. All they're interested in
07:15is the hate and the rage and being able to attach themselves to something. And that's exactly how it
07:23felt. They weren't interested in talking to Ollie about or having his questions or anything like that.
07:28And that was a premeditated act that that's the way that they were going to treat him
07:36from a previous story that he had already done. There's been some national reaction from what
07:42happened to Ollie. The Press Gazette have run a story. Jason Gibbons from the BBC Local Partnerships
07:49team has also been commenting on it. I've had contact from an organisation called Reporters Without Borders,
07:57they contacted us saying it was absolutely shocking what happened to Ollie. We've been speaking to
08:04the police about, you know, how that got to that stage. And we're going to continue to speak to the
08:13police about how we can report safely. But, you know, we've had other incidents, Kristen.
08:18The abuse you received as well, you were behind the camera when that person said he was going to kick
08:26your camera over and then I'm not going to repeat the next bit that he says, which was ironic given
08:31that you were there covering a protest that was apparently about protecting women and they were
08:37threatening you with physical violence. It's absolutely ridiculous. The ignorance is ridiculous.
08:42And unfortunately, this is just the way that attitudes are at the moment on the street. And it's a very,
08:50very difficult time to be an impartial journalist because that's what we're doing. But when people
08:56are just attaching themselves to an argument like that, it's just, it's just daft.
09:00And then Dan, can you explain your role as LDRS? People might be confused as to what that is. Can you explain
09:07what it is and why you wrote this protest for it? Of course. So we're employed by the KM. We work for
09:15the KM. We cover Kent. But our jobs are publicly funded through a scheme called the Local Democracy
09:19Reporting Service. So essentially, the BBC supports KM to hire us and our stories also get coverage and
09:26get picked up by BBC, other partner organisations like Reach Publications and that kind of thing.
09:33So Dan, if I ask you a question, so what about when people put to you that you're not
09:37impartial? How do you approach that when impartiality is absolutely at the heart of what you do?
09:48Well, I mean, obviously, the main thing is that, especially at protests, people will sometimes be
09:52quite clean to say, well, what do you think? What side are you on? I remember when I was in a
09:56protest for a few weeks ago, I had a child, clearly under the age of 10, wearing an England flag
10:01cape, very insistently asking me, whose side are you on, us or them? But the main thing is just saying,
10:06well, what I think isn't really relevant, I'm not here to be asked questions, I'm here to ask you
10:11questions. And essentially, you just have to kind of quite tactfully say, I have my own opinions,
10:16but they're not relevant to my work. And basically, when people speak to you, even if you disagree
10:21with them, understand their opinions in the best possible terms they could be put in, even if you
10:26feel like they're not expressing them properly. And basically, as understanding as possible to people
10:30who you may or may not disagree with, and suggest that your own views aren't what matters, why we're
10:36there is to get other people's views. Chris, can I just pick up on something with reform as well? So
10:42the other thing that the protesters and certainly online that they've been talking about,
10:47KMTV being a bunch of lefty woke people, right? We are absolutely not. We are absolutely impartial. We
10:54have people from all different political backgrounds who've come to learn and to be professional
10:59journalists here at KMTV. Nigel Farage sat about 12 feet away from where we're sitting right now
11:07to present his LBC programme here once. We accommodated him to be able to do that. We've
11:12had dozens of interviews with him in the past. In fact, one of our reporters left KMTV to go and be his
11:18producer at GB News. And so it's not about what side of the political divides you are when you're
11:27a journalist. It really is about covering the topic and being as impartial as possible. And also,
11:33if anyone's got a problem with our impartiality, they can write to Ofcom, they can complain to Ofcom,
11:39and they will investigate whether we have been biased on an issue. And they're very welcome to go to
11:43Ofcom's website and complain about our coverage if that's what they would like to do, rather than just
11:48say this online. Thank you. Time for a quick break now.
14:48Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show on KMTV. Now, rail campaigners went to Downing Street today to hand over a petition calling for the return of international trains to Ashford and to Ebb's fleet.
15:16The last Eurostar to Paris left Kent in March 2020 and services were not then restored when the COVID pandemic ended.
15:24The group Bring Back Eurotrain says that it's time for that change and 75,000 people have signed their name in support.
15:32Ronnie Glastyle asked those people, some of those people in Ashford, why this matters.
15:36More than 74,000 signatures have now signed an online petition asking for the return of Eurostar services to Ashford Station.
15:46But if this line makes a comeback to the county, what would that mean not just for Eurostar, but for Kent's businesses?
15:52What that will mean for us locally is that we can then confidently start to re-advertise Ashford as an international destination to those investment organisations.
16:04We can start to give some reassurance to those businesses that are looking to plan sort of four, five, ten year strategies that actually the international is something they should factor in.
16:17That in itself creates a much more interesting proposition from a social economic perspective where people see Ashford as being not just a nice place to live in the Kent countryside, but actually has international connectivity and provides a whole range of opportunities.
16:30So that, again, encourages people to perhaps relocate to here and sort of raise families here and that brings skills into the into the territory.
16:36That may be what it brings to the county. But would those already living here feel as though they would make use of the services as well if they were to return?
16:45I think they should. I remember before they went, they were saying about getting a train that went straight to Amsterdam and all my friends are really excited about that.
16:54And then all of a sudden they stopped doing it because of COVID and then international went.
16:58Yes, 100%. I think they should bring it back because going away up to London is a very long way.
17:06And if they brought it back to Ashford, it'd be a lot better for a lot of people that live in Ashford.
17:13I think it'd be good for it to return. But also, it's just as easy to get the train to London and then elsewhere.
17:23It'd be fantastic to come back. We've only lived in Ashford for about three or four years.
17:29But the thought about going to Paris or something like that for the day would be wonderful.
17:33But how does the local council feel about the services potential return?
17:37The council's perspective on it is that we need the economic benefit of getting this station back into action.
17:43We believe that if it was running now with an operator providing a decent number of services to it, we could be well over 860,000, possibly even over a million people a year.
17:54So the economic benefits of getting the services back are huge.
17:58We get billions of pounds worth of business into Kent and the whole of the southeast region, particularly on the tourism side.
18:06And the money that would come in and the jobs that would be generated from that would be incredible.
18:11So that's all possible at the moment. Obviously, we have a monopoly situation with Eurostar.
18:18They're very comfortable in St Pancras. They're very comfortable pursuing their strategy of city to city.
18:24And there's no motivation, really, for them to reopen the station because they're making more money from what they're doing at the moment.
18:31Ronnie Glasthall for KMTV.
18:33Well, joining me now to virtually discuss this more is Jonathan Hawkes from the Labour Party and Councillor Danny Nicklin for the local Conservatives.
18:42Both are from the Dartford Borough Council and from the Epps Fleet Ward, which has been impacted.
18:48So I'll first of all ask you both, are you both for this, for the Eurostar to come back or any other private companies?
18:55Well, thank you for having me.
18:58It's probably no surprise, of course, I'm fully in support of reinstating services from EPSI and Axford.
19:05I think it's hugely important that we see it's reinstated.
19:08The Good Growth Foundation found that there was going to be about £2.7 billion to the local economy,
19:13about half a million visitors and tourism, which was mentioned in your piece.
19:18Of course, it makes great sense for it to come back.
19:20And it's a shame that Eurostar took a commercial decision to withdraw it in the first place.
19:25I recognise that both COVID pandemic and Brexit have had a role in that commercial decision.
19:32And then, Jonathan, what about you? Do you feel like the same?
19:36Absolutely. It's time to bring back international services, both for Epps Fleet and Ashford.
19:42This has gone on for far too long.
19:45And it's a scandal, really, that we've got infrastructure that was built using taxpayers' money,
19:51sitting idle. It's a huge waste.
19:54So getting services running from Epps Fleet would not only be a huge boost to the local economy,
20:00around Epps Fleet and around Dartford and indeed in Ashford,
20:04but the whole of the region in the South East.
20:06So we really do need to get services running again.
20:09The mission being handed in today is a big milestone on that journey.
20:14It's a really important step in getting services running again.
20:18So we are fully in support.
20:21So, Danny, then, I'll pose my next question to you.
20:24The Conservatives were in power, obviously, when this ended.
20:27That was due to COVID, however.
20:29How have you seen that maybe Epps Fleet has changed since the Eurostar has stopped?
20:34Well, there's, as mentioned in the piece about people who moved to Ashford
20:40with the name of utilising and making an advantage to the service.
20:43And I think Epps Fleet is quite similar.
20:45You know, people feel disappointed that that service is not available to them
20:50when they were sold a dream that it would be.
20:52So, of course, it would be a huge benefit for customer choice and passenger choice
20:56accessing the continent.
20:58It's disappointing.
21:00Of course, the pandemic has played a huge part.
21:03Which party was in power would have had to have dealt with that situation.
21:08It is a commercial decision that Eurostar took.
21:10So it's an emotive issue.
21:12I'm pleased that the petition has been so well received.
21:15I hope that it makes a difference and we see services reinstated as quickly as possible.
21:21And then, Jonathan, you obviously spoke there.
21:25I mean, you both spoke about the impact on the economy that it could have.
21:29We still don't know the full extent of the entry exit system checks with Europe could look like.
21:34And that's part of the reason why Eurostar kind of holding fire with the return.
21:39Could that barrier be for the other private operators as well?
21:42Well, that's something that any operator will need to deal with.
21:47But I'm afraid that I don't buy and many people don't buy Eurostar's continued excuses around this.
21:56They are at the same time that they are saying that they're not able to reopen services from Ashford.
22:02They are announcing plans to significantly expand operations at St. Pancras.
22:10So those kind of issues aren't a barrier for them.
22:13It's a Pancras.
22:14They need not be a barrier at Ebsleet and Ashford either.
22:18So I don't think we buy those excuses.
22:21And we know that there are other operators in the market ready to step in and provide competition for Eurostar and provide those services.
22:29So I don't think that's a barrier.
22:31And I think we need to get on and open services and get them running again.
22:36And, I mean, why has it taken so long then if there are different private companies interested?
22:42I mean, are we going to get started now on getting it back?
22:47Well, look, I think the government is listening to this.
22:50They're very receptive to it.
22:52The Prime Minister has supported these calls in Parliament.
22:57We've got the two Labour MPs in Dartford and Ashford very, very engaged in the issue.
23:04I do have to say that is in stark contrast to the action that we saw from the previous Conservative government.
23:10You left this issue to sort of drift for years and years.
23:13We're now getting back into a situation where we're putting pressure on Eurostar.
23:18The ORR now looking in this autumn about how we can possibly get new operators involved, get that competition in.
23:27The key to it is competition.
23:28The key is to get other operators involved in running services again.
23:33And once we get past that hurdle, I'm very, very confident we can get services running again too.
23:39And then, Danny, just before our last question, I do want to ask, before Covid happened, it looked like the Eurostar was going to stop in Ashford anyway, because not many people were using it at all.
23:52Do you feel like the Conservatives maybe could have done more to support it and provide people trains internationally?
23:58Well, I mean, Councillor Hawks is right, the competition is hugely important and we need to encourage new operators to provide services from both stations.
24:12When the last Conservative government was in power, it faced one of the biggest global pandemics in a generation and had to deal with that.
24:22So negotiate with private companies running rail franchises was one of many things the government was having to do.
24:28So we do have to take that into consideration.
24:31Could more have been done? Yes, probably.
24:34The government used to have a stake in Eurostar, which now it doesn't.
24:39There's a strategic decision that perhaps could have been taken differently.
24:43But there's a bigger discussion here about high speed connectivity in the United Kingdom.
24:48And successive governments, in my opinion, have perhaps not taken the strategic lead that they could have done on developing that high speed infrastructure compared to the continent.
24:56So we do have to think about commercial operators operating on our rail network.
25:00So there's a lot more involved and it's a much bigger strategic issue than just who did what, who did when, with respect to this issue.
25:10But we want more people to use those services from EBC and Ashford.
25:15And I hope, I hope that it's reinstated as quickly as possible.
25:19And then Jonathan, just quickly, how do you feel like if this comes in with the Labour government, how do you feel like it's going to be supported long term?
25:27Because I could imagine it'd be quite popular at the beginning, but then that might trickle off as time goes on.
25:32Well, investing in all of our public transport and connectivity around the country and to Europe is vital to getting the economy growing and leaving again.
25:42And you'll know that that is the number one priority of this Labour government.
25:46So I'm very confident that it's got the support of the government.
25:50It will have the support both in the short term, if they're going again, and in the long term.
25:54So I think we have reasons for the optimism.
25:57The petition going in today is a big milestone and let's kick on from there and get services running from EBC and Ashford once again.
26:06And the Dartford council leader, Jeremy Kite, has joined a whole sweep of politicians from across the political spectrum in Ashford today to call for the services to return.
26:16And so we will see more about that as the story continues.
26:20But that's all from us here at the Kent Politics Show.
26:23Thank you to Andy Richards, Dan Essin, Jonathan Hawkes and Danny Nicklin.
26:28And soon we'll be back with lots more politics.
26:31But stay with us for Kent tonight, which is coming up with all the latest news from across the county.
26:36But for now, have a great evening and we will see you next week. Bye bye.
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