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Catch up on all the latest political news from across Kent with Rob Bailey joined by Conservative, Cllr Habib Tejan, and recent to defect to Reform UK, Cllr Robbie Lammas
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00:00Welcome to the Kemp Politics Show on KMTV.
00:29I'm Rob Bailey.
00:30Coming up, we'll discuss Labour's plan to save high streets by giving councils the
00:34power to block vape shops, barbers and betting parlours.
00:39But first, it's been a week of big pledges and big defections for the Conservative Party.
00:44Leader Kamid Badenoch said she'll scrap stamp duty and slash welfare spending to win over
00:49voters who abandoned her party in recent elections.
00:52But here in Kent, five Conservative councillors switched to reform.
00:57Local Democracy reporter Olly Leader has more.
01:04As Conservative councillors have been jumping ship to reform UK.
01:09There was an issue that took place locally where I felt I was not supported in standing
01:14up for our flags being flown locally.
01:16One of those who has switched sides is Robbie Lammas, a Medway councillor and former advisor
01:22in the Rishi Sunak government.
01:24That there will be some people in Princes Park ward who voted for a Conservative councillor.
01:30And to those people I say I'm truly sorry.
01:32There's nothing I can do to change that.
01:34I do speak to people, I live in the ward I represent, I'm part of the community here and a lot
01:40of people have been encouraging me to go to reform.
01:42I mean I've had four people contact me this morning saying I'm very encouraged by what
01:46you do, I want to do the same, how can I do it?
01:48So potentially the reform group could become a sizeable opposition force here at Medway
01:52council?
01:53It's possible, however specifically on Medway council there are quite a lot of considered
01:58seasoned, experienced councillors who have been in the party for many years and many
02:02of which are looking forward to retiring at the end of this term.
02:05So I don't think you'll have that seismic shift on Medway but I do think you'll see one
02:09or two come over before too long.
02:10The move has not gone unnoticed.
02:13Conservative group leader George Perfect says that Lamas should reflect on his own part in
02:19the mistakes of the previous government and warning that rather than focusing on themselves,
02:25they should be focused on providing a strong, credible and effective alternative to the Labour
02:29council in Medway.
02:32But none of that takes away from the rise of reform in a traditionally conservative county.
02:39Olly Leader in Medway.
02:43The councillor Robbie Lamas joins us now as the new deputy leader of reform here in
02:49Medway and alongside him Habib Tijan of Medway Conservatives.
02:53Thank you both for joining us.
02:55Robbie I have to start with you.
02:56The timing of your decision to defect in the same week that obviously Kemi Badnock was giving
03:01her first speech as leader of the Conservatives and a chance to reset the party.
03:05It's a deliberate knife in the back of the Conservatives is it?
03:09Oh, I don't like that rhetoric, I mean the choice to defect is actually one that was very personally
03:15felt and it was a very long term decision, you know, the actual timing was not my decision
03:20as you probably well know.
03:22But in terms of the long term decision making I'm totally behind it.
03:25They have a sense of belief of how they want to change Britain.
03:28They have a leader that's credible, that's trusted, that's consistent.
03:32And locally here, my colleagues, my former colleagues in the Conservative Party were not
03:36adequately standing up for ordinary people holding the Labour administration to account.
03:40So I had to do what I thought was right.
03:42Are there specific concerns that you have about the direction of the Conservative Party that
03:46made you make this choice?
03:47Yeah, essentially they're not trusted.
03:49I mean I was fortunate enough to work in the Conservative Party and I know what it's like
03:54on the inside as well as what it's viewed as from the outside and I can tell you no
03:58amount of sort of suddenly after much delay adopting reform policy will change the fact
04:04that I know they won't be able to deliver on it.
04:07The only way the Conservative Party, sadly, the Parliamentary Party in London will be able
04:11to deliver on the promises, particularly on things like ECHR and other constitutional changes,
04:16if they literally got rid of virtually all of their current MPs.
04:19That's not going to happen.
04:20Habib, how has this news been received within your party in Medway?
04:24I mean it's very disappointing and it's shocking to hear Robbie, you know, he was unhappy for
04:32quite a long time with the Conservative Party and, you know, he was in the centre of government.
04:39Robbie was in the backbencher.
04:42Robbie was suspect, he was a special advisor.
04:45He was the chief of staff to the party chairman up until recently.
04:50And he never voiced any of this before now.
04:54And what is more important for the Resident of Medway currently?
04:59What's more important, Robbie?
05:01What is the most important issue facing the Resident of Medway?
05:06OK, I mean, I'll tell you, you know, serious financial crisis, consistent reliance on exceptional
05:15financial support.
05:16You know, the council is in financial trouble, you know.
05:21The most serious concern is being solvent so that we may be able to deliver the statutory
05:29service and non-statutory service our residents require.
05:32I think that's very important.
05:34I think it's more important to our resident than which flag is flown or cultural issues
05:41to do with asylum seekers.
05:43Don't you?
05:44Well, the problem you have, Habib, is that notwithstanding the cataclysmic failure of labour locally here
05:51in Medway.
05:52But a lot of the issues you talk about, the fact that social care funding is a local issue,
05:58the fact that the finances are in a mess, is in part labour but also part the legacy.
06:03And that's part of the problem.
06:05I don't think the Conservatives actually understand how much they have not delivered for people
06:10on the ground.
06:11And that is the issue.
06:13You mentioned things like cultural issues about the flag.
06:15It is disgraceful that Labour said they want to rip down flags being flown locally and if
06:20they disagree with them, vote them out of office.
06:23I wanted to stand up for the flag.
06:25My grandfather, who raised me, was buried in the Union flag.
06:29He was a WWII veteran.
06:31The idea that our flag is offensive to some people is complete nonsense.
06:36Everyone loves our flag.
06:37We should be proud of it.
06:38And by the way, with our maritime history here in Medway, I guarantee you historically
06:42we have, even now today, less flags flying in the Medway towns than we ever did throughout
06:47our history, given our, you know, the fact that we were leading the Royal Navy for so
06:52many centuries.
06:53We have less flags than we did.
06:54We need more flags, not less flags.
06:56The splintering on the right, Habib, I mean, in terms of kind of what kind of choice that
07:03means Medway people have, do you think that this is a problem, the splintering on the
07:07right is a problem for the Conservatives and for reform?
07:11No, I mean, like, the problems, we talk about the problems that people have, and I will get
07:18back to the core problem, is about the core services, which is, we're missing the points.
07:25Everyone loves the flag.
07:27We all wave the flag.
07:28I mean, I've got the flag on my desk at home.
07:30Everyone loves the Union Jack, especially when we've got sporting events, when we're celebrating
07:35national issues.
07:36We're all proud of the flag.
07:38But when it's about raising the colours and being divisive, and we know where it's
07:43coming from, when it's a campaign to divide us rather than unite us, then we've got to
07:50be very, very careful.
07:52And you know, if the Council decided to take a position to bring everyone together, you
07:57know, forward together, then I'll support that decision.
08:00However, the most important issue facing the Council currently is the finances.
08:07And I don't see how Robbie can represent his resident, Princess Park, when he moves away
08:14from the most effective opposition on the Council that can hold Labour to account.
08:19You know, we're thinking about holding Labour to account for them to have a balanced budget,
08:23OK?
08:24For them to come up with exceptional financial service, exceptional financial support, and
08:30come up with clear strategies so we're not relying continuously on being bailed up at central
08:35government.
08:36OK?
08:37While Robbie is thinking about moving away to reform, where there's only going to be free
08:42of it.
08:43Can I just say something?
08:44It's astonishing to me that you say that you support Labour's policy on tearing down
08:50flags.
08:51I don't think you meant that.
08:52But that's what I took from that.
08:53You don't actually support that.
08:54No, no, no.
08:55I didn't say I support the policy on tearing down flags.
08:57I'm uniting everyone.
08:59OK.
09:00Well, can I put something else to you?
09:02Can I put something else to you which goes to this point about this so-called uniparty,
09:07where they've all just become the same, basically.
09:09So, Labour plan at the next full council, following my defection, to change the council
09:14rules to remove reform's ability to speak on the council and reduce the amount of motions
09:19we can bring to full council.
09:21That's a Labour proposal currently.
09:22Do you support that?
09:23Do you support silencing the voice of reform on Midway Council?
09:26Look, I…
09:27Are you going to agree with Labour on that point too?
09:29I'll tell you now, you know, the people of Midway selected just two reform candidates.
09:36You stood on a Conservative paper.
09:38Yeah, I do.
09:39You were in the midst of the Conservative government, you know, as I said previously…
09:42You're not answering my question, Habib.
09:44You have…
09:45Are you going to support Labour in trying to silence in reform's voice on Midway Council
09:49by reducing the amount of motions we can bring?
09:51I will support whatever is effective…
09:52That's anti-democratic, Habib.
09:53I will support whatever is effective in getting the council business done.
09:57OK?
09:58I mean, look, look, Robbie, do you know how much, do you know how much debt…
10:02Do you know the level of debt Midway Council currently have?
10:05Do you know that…
10:06Do you know that you guys run it for that…
10:08What's the level of debt currently?
10:10OK, you don't know.
10:11Can I ask, Robbie, I want to pick up this point because we have a test case at the moment
10:16for a council run by reform, which is Kent County Council.
10:20It inherited an authority which had deep financial problems.
10:25To my point.
10:26It told residents that it wouldn't have to raise council tax, that it could find the cuts
10:30to fund the services that Kent County Council should do.
10:33And, of course, this year now, in the last couple of weeks, that tune has changed.
10:37They're saying that council tax will have to go up by 25% next year.
10:40No, no.
10:41See, that's the difference, you see.
10:43So, that was a Financial Times hit job on a casual conversation by an unsuspecting member
10:49of the Cabinet, not a formal interview, where they gave an honest reflection saying,
10:53I don't know the situation.
10:54And the truth, if I haven't spoken to my new colleagues on Kent County Council, is they
10:58don't yet know the situation.
11:00Because as Habib knows, and as other fellow councillors know, that approximately a quarter
11:04of council tax goes back into the coffers of local government funding.
11:09A huge part of their funding depends on grants from government.
11:12So, they don't actually know the position.
11:14But I can tell you what they have already done.
11:16They've already, like you said, the financial position in KCC.
11:19They've already helped re-manage the debt to save every single person in Kent £1,820
11:26a day versus what it would have cost if they didn't sort out the debt problems that Kent
11:31County Council have.
11:32They've also scrapped the woke climate change nonsense, which means the procurement rules
11:36for local services are now freed up so that people can actually lower the costs that it
11:42will take to provide the services that Kent need, which will save the residents of Kent
11:45millions in the median term.
11:47Actually, we're out of time in this half.
11:49We've got a quick break coming up.
11:50When we come back, we'll talk about high streets.
11:52Stay with us.
12:17online.
12:18Let'sua alta.
12:19You don't have that big about that.
12:20Relaxing, are there any questions we can answer there?
12:21You don't have Ashley Miller.
12:22Don't put no questions.
12:23Thanks, brother.
12:24Not typically.
12:25Hi, I'm sweaty.
12:26Joe Matt Storbrugic.
12:27It's a great deal.
12:28Your, you can't find those questions in your mind that needs to ask them to get
12:31any questions.
12:32Give us problema to that.
12:33That thing is awesome.
12:34Realten of signs, Police said that you profit some collateral support in this
12:37triangle.
12:38From that standpoint, we don't see how the student can help
12:39anything.
12:40We have trouble to address these ships and engage, but people don't
12:41express their coverage in them.
12:43I assume they've done that getting all kinds of issues now.
16:45and be organized you.
16:47Thank you very few.
16:49Elements Sparling House.
16:51federal city still has a few telltale signs of urban decline sort of old vacant nation's
16:55department store, but counselors here hope the pride in place strategy will given the powers to do something about this, you know every new
16:59shop is at seems to be a big shot, the council will be able to have regulations around
17:04that but the thing that I'm most passionate about is that it will give councils the powers if
17:11of premises has been empty for two years to put that those premises up for auction with councils
17:18like canterbury set to get expanded powers to compulsorily purchase abandoned buildings
17:24and block certain businesses do locals share the excitement well i i i welcome it if they did it but
17:33they don't get on with doing any of this it's just promises i've been looking at decline now
17:38for about seven years maybe eight i want to see this building used i want to see that building
17:43used but for what purpose but the new powers may not be the short-term fix people here are looking
17:50for i i think they're potentially important tools in some parts of the country but they're not a
17:57solution on their own the idea that we need to as a community come together and and find out look
18:04why are these units vacant who is the property owner what can be done about that i think that that
18:10is important for us and there are some who don't welcome the plans at all with concerns that
18:16legitimate vape shops will be lumped in with other cash intensive businesses associated with money
18:24laundering i saw on the high street are those rogue traders and that's what needs to be dealt with and
18:29once they are gone from the high street then you can really rejuvenate the high street bring other
18:35startups and businesses in and and really build that community which which we all want to have
18:40and and see back on the high street not it but i think councils will struggle to differentiate um
18:46between the reputable retailers and rogue traders the devil will be in the detail about how these new
18:52powers work but with such strong feelings from across the county there might finally be some
18:59sunshine for kent's high streets as the autumn skies set in ollie leader in canterbury
19:08well still here with me are medway councillors habib tijan and robbie lammas uh before we get into
19:14the into the issue when was the last time you went and popped to the shops in medway we and which
19:19which place did you go to oh just yesterday i was in uh chatham at the nucleus arts cafe having a
19:26coffee uh yesterday morning robbie you've been popped to the shops recently yeah last week i went
19:31to tay's which does really good food uh do you agree that that medway the high street and high
19:37streets across the county do have a bit of a problem these days with with the story that they're telling
19:42shoppers and the ability to draw people in do you think that's that's a real problem absolutely i think so
19:47i mean i'm you uh a retail offering and and has changed and i don't think it will ever go back
19:53to what it used to and that's have a huge impact uh on the high street uh the the the uh pride in place
20:01funding has recently been announced is wholeheartedly welcome and i think it will go a long way
20:06however you know a slightly more than the little previous scheme which was the uk
20:11of prosperity share funding i think we got 750 000 a year over two years period so 1.5 million but
20:19that's a drop in the ocean really i thought you know with regards to what i think it could do i mean
20:24yeah it's it's welcome but it is a drop in the ocean when uh some of the announcement i came forward
20:31from chemist speech uh a conference i think that will have huge impact on our high street you know you
20:39know i think that would drive investment in and you know uh reducing uh taxes on on on businesses
20:46that that will really drive our economy rather than than the start for growth because i mean 1.5 million
20:53is obviously what medway is going to get out of this fund it sounds like a reasonably big chunk of
20:57money it doesn't go very far when you're trying to fix high streets does it well it's not a big chunk
21:01of money when it comes to this kind of stuff as you well know it's not a lot but of course any money is
21:06welcome how should it be spent well i'll tell you how it should present so this week i attended an
21:10event where a lady broke down in tears in front of vince maple saying that parts of chatham high
21:15street are a no-go area she said that she lives in chatham high street and every night druggies
21:20and criminals are screaming their heads off in the high streets there's a lack of police presence
21:25and the place is completely unrecognizable as to what it was 20 years ago when she first moved there
21:29it's a disgrace and actually much more needs to be done much much more needs to be done especially in
21:35chatham high street is that an experience did you do you share that kind of view of chatham
21:42well you know i haven't had that sort of experience i do go to chatham and yes i mean
21:47but i don't think it's a no-go area you know i mean i walk across chatham at night and i don't feel
21:53that way but everyone's perception is different i mean i know there's crime read all across midway but
21:59i don't i won't say that chatham is unsafe i won't promote chatham so they're unsafe the residents
22:04themselves are crying crying saying that parts of chatham are unsafe that police are not responding
22:10to calls shops are now getting together on chatham high street to decide what they're going to do about
22:15shoplifting some kind of vigilante service i mean to say that you're not aware of this is insane
22:20i mean shops are getting together no we have got the community safety department and you've got
22:26shops that work together i know i know a gentleman who who who operate the safer chatham uh sort of
22:36system with every shops having a walkie-talkie and and and speaking to each other and identifying crime
22:42and being more vigilant and and and and that is supported by the the town center community forum
22:48so there's lots of work going on behind the saying and i don't think chatham is is the worst place
22:54compared to many other high street yeah it could be better it could be safer and and yeah that's
22:59that funding is welcome uh it could go into more uh keeping our history more safer but i won't say
23:05it's a no-go area there are parts of chatham high street that are no-go areas that are very very
23:10unsafe at night and they need urgent urgent emergency attention that's the scale of it and another problem
23:15with this funding that's not been picked up i think adequately is the way in which they've decided that
23:21the decision making will be taken on how the funding will be spent in catteling to the left
23:26wing of his party keir starmer put rules in that mandates decisions made on how this money is spent
23:31is done by community forums which will be lunchtime wokarati committees that will decide that these
23:37former shops rather than attracting other shops coming in will probably just create 10 million more public
23:41libraries and things like that which won't make a substantial difference in power needs to be in
23:46the hands of politicians who represent and understand the needs of the people well i mean yeah you're
23:52probably right power needs to be in the hands of politicians but i'm telling you the community and
23:56town center forum if you have ever attended one of those they are very vibrant and it involve everyone
24:02and really you know it's it's more community engagement because the people who work on the house
24:08street and business owners and everyone including politicians are part of our forum and they come
24:13up with the decision and ideas because they know what the problems are people are screaming their heads
24:18off at night in chatham street the local residents are crying to the leader vince maple crying their eyes
24:23are saying they cannot sleep at night you know i appreciate all existing strategies to help but i'm sure you'd
24:29agree with me that much more has to be done much more has to be done and that's why it is better
24:35you know being part of the more effective opposition uh group on midway council where you can hold
24:41administration to account then you know therein lies the difference rob it talks about effects of
24:46opposition you have one person and one party not person but one party who i think it's just got too
24:54close to the status quo they just they always want to talk about some committee or some program that's
25:00going on and pretend everything's fine whereas i tend to just see things as they are and speak
25:04the truth and i think people find that really refreshing we are holding the administration to
25:10account robbie and you know that and the most you agree with them tearing down flags the most serious
25:14the most serious issue facing the resident midway are you going to agree with them on the motion to
25:18silence our voice on midway council can you please stop talking it is holding them to account uh with
25:24regards to financial sovereignty you know but what you've done robbie you move away and joined a group of
25:30two uh uh reform councillors you know betraying the people who elected you to serve them and leaving
25:38the largest and most effective group right now we've got a motion going through uh holding the
25:44administration to account with regards to financial sustainability and and and will you support that
25:50motion most likely yes i hope to see reform supporting that motion because i think that's what important
25:56you know a sovereign council that can deliver uh for the people of medway to make sure that money goes
26:02in the right place and so do you know what motion we're bringing to council we're trying to increase
26:08the powers to stop all family homes being turned into homes for multiple occupation because labor's
26:14solution to migrants in hotels is to relocate them across the southeast in family homes including in the
26:21medway area and at the moment medway is a soft touch because we don't have the powers to stop
26:27these um changes being made at to family homes which will be procured by the home office will you
26:32support our motion very sadly very sadly that's all we've got time for i'm so sorry here at the
26:40kent politics show thank you for both of my guests for a passionate debate tonight we'll be back next week
26:45with more politics news but stay with us because kent tonight is coming up next
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