00:00Are fans at a spot now where they would have just wished the Deshaun Watson experience
00:04would have continued on and not had this little break in action?
00:07If that's the overarching question you're trying to ask here,
00:10I told you earlier in the show, I like the idea.
00:13I think this came at the perfect time for the Browns to have Shador Sanders have one week.
00:17The Deshaun Watson experience kind of hit its apex,
00:20and now we're on what seems to be a downward trajectory of it.
00:23All the numbers suggest that he is just not good enough.
00:27And so getting a one-week tryout for a guy that I don't know will be any better or not,
00:32I think it's the perfect time.
00:33It should be noted that I'm excited to see what Shador can do on Sunday.
00:38I am.
00:39And I give him a better chance to have a big game
00:42because I don't think he is maybe shackled with the same self-doubt.
00:46I think some of what Deshaun is struggling with is
00:49Deshaun is trying to keep Todd Munkin happy,
00:53and I think he feels the pressure of potentially getting benched,
00:58potentially ending his career as a starter with any potential turnover.
01:02So that's why I think he's turning down open, obvious throws.
01:05I don't think Shador is going to have that.
01:08So I think that's a real positive for this Sunday.
01:11Munkin is going to all of a sudden morph him into what we saw with Dylan Gabriel last year.
01:14Now, I do think Munkin trusts Deshaun more,
01:21but I think Sunday's an excellent opportunity for Shador to earn that trust,
01:26to meld a little bit of the check-down stuff,
01:28a little bit of take-the-easy stuff plays
01:31with the big boppers hitting Denzel Boston consistently over the top, right?
01:36Yeah, yeah, definitely.
01:37I also looked, though, and this was highlighted yesterday for me
01:41in Shador's press conference,
01:43and this is a hard line to walk
01:45because you and I really saw Shador up close and personal
01:51these last two camps,
01:53and he kind of converted me on who I think he really is in his heart
01:57of, like, he really does care about the fans,
02:01and I think that's really cool.
02:02Like, you don't commit that kind of time
02:07to giving that much of your time to other people if you're phony.
02:11You don't.
02:12I know because there are guys who I've thought that are phony before
02:16that go over for one autograph, make their little statement,
02:20and then walk off.
02:21You don't spend an hour after practice
02:23when you have to then go do another four or five hours of work.
02:25I think he likes it.
02:26I think he likes being out in the community.
02:27I think he likes getting to impact people's lives.
02:30But as I heard Shador talking yesterday,
02:34it did remind me of a comp from an NFL sense
02:38that I don't know is going to end up being flattering to Shador,
02:42and that is Jameis Winston.
02:44And what I mean by that is Jameis is a really engaging,
02:49big-hearted, awesome guy.
02:51But for some reason, as much as people like Jameis individually,
02:56there's something about Jameis that they don't play for.
02:59And I think there's a reason why Jameis is an insanely gifted physical specimen.
03:06He's 6'4", he's 250 pounds, he has a really strong arm.
03:10There's some deficiencies to his game,
03:13but this is a guy who has had multiple times Tampa Bay,
03:17certainly in New Orleans, he's had multiple times to grab the brass rings,
03:22even in New York.
03:23The idea that New York saw Jameis get it, that Jackson Dart get hurt,
03:28and the first thing they did was make sure they trade for J.J. McCarthy,
03:31and two weeks later, J.J. McCarthy's a starting quarterback.
03:34I think that's because Jameis is goofy.
03:37And I think there's something about NFL culture that goofy doesn't work.
03:43Because these are grown men,
03:44because they've got a finite amount of time to work
03:47and make their millions upon millions upon millions of dollars,
03:52goofy is a threat to the establishment.
03:54I think Shador is a little goofy.
03:57I do think when we hear words like maturity,
04:00when we hear Jerry Judy, who had problems with him last year,
04:03when we hear Jerry Judy talking about his maturity,
04:05even Shador was trying to throw out,
04:07I said it for the second time, Shador.
04:09Even Shador yesterday was trying to throw out,
04:11I'm more mature, right?
04:13I think goofy might end up being the biggest threat to Shador's career,
04:17because I think it's one of the few things that just doesn't play in NFL locker rooms
04:21if you want to be the face of the franchise.
04:24I don't know.
04:24We have some goofy quarterbacks that are good, though.
04:25Mahomes is goofy.
04:27Yeah, no, no, no.
04:27There's goofy from the sense of...
04:29I need a better detail of your version of goofy.
04:32A goober.
04:33Like a clownish kind of person.
04:37Mahomes is not clownish.
04:38Allen is not clownish.
04:40They both are clownish at times, certainly.
04:42Show your work on that.
04:43What do you mean?
04:43Josh Allen is constantly, like, pranking people and doing jokes and all that stuff.
04:47Yeah, no, I think it's just how you comport yourself.
04:51Mahomes' family is a mess 24-7.
04:53Yeah, how is that held against him?
04:54That's not...
04:55That doesn't...
04:55The Apple doesn't fall far from the tree there.
04:57He's constantly doing goofy things.
04:59I think...
05:01I'm just going to say,
05:02I see a lot of Jameis in Shador,
05:05and I don't think that's a good thing for Shador.
05:08I think when everyone doubts
05:10whether you're going to take this seriously enough
05:12and put in the work to do it,
05:13I think some of that ties back to kind of his jokey personality.
05:18And you can do that.
05:19Honestly, he even handled yesterday kind of like Deion does.
05:22The difference is,
05:23Deion Sanders was a once-in-a-generation cornerback
05:27who backed it up on the field.
05:29Shador hasn't had that opportunity yet.
05:31And so you can't do those things if you haven't...
05:34You can do whatever you want if you win.
05:36Joe Burrow's incredibly goofy.
05:38Yeah, I don't think it's the same thing.
05:40Maybe we're just not...
05:41Maybe you're taking that word to mean something different than I am.
05:43Maybe.
05:45I mean, we've seen all the different...
05:48Between his different commercials and everything
05:50with his weird hobbies,
05:51but the way he trolls media members and stuff like that,
05:54like Joe Burrow just had that thing a couple weeks ago we discussed.
05:57Then maybe it's just immature.
05:59Maybe what I'm really saying is
06:01Shador and Jameis are immature guys
06:03and that doesn't play in the NFL
06:05because it's a man's game.
06:07I hope I'm wrong, by the way,
06:08but I think, like, I'm just trying to draw the corollary
06:11between why guys still aren't bought into that locker room,
06:14why I think guys still are
06:16a little bit more leaning towards DeSean than Shador.
06:18Well, I do wonder if he was playing and winning games,
06:21I think it'd be a different story.
06:22Obviously, he's not playing right now
06:23and he's not winning games,
06:24so it's not a different story.
06:25Like, we've seen in the past, though,
06:27even remember last year
06:28where they had that rookie photo
06:29where Dylan Gabriel wouldn't put his wrist up
06:31but everybody else in the photo was?
06:34Like, Shador's got a long history
06:35of teammates liking and being around him.
06:37There's a difference between liking somebody
06:39and following them,
06:40and I think that's where I think
06:42there seems to be a disconnect at the professional level.
06:45Well, he hasn't played at the professional level.
06:46Where there's doubt.
06:47I should say doubt.
06:48He hasn't played one at any point this year.
06:50Like, it's really hard to get people to follow
06:52if you're not even playing.
06:52I mean, you were in the quarterback competition
06:54until the very end.
06:55You had every opportunity to take that job.
06:58One of the ways that you can take that job
07:00is by getting people to follow you.
07:02Yeah, but every person we talked to,
07:03even away from the mic,
07:04like Quincy Williams,
07:05we talked to him.
07:05He was like,
07:06yeah, we all like Shador
07:07and we all like Deshaun.
07:09It's all that.
07:10Yeah, it's not about disliking.
07:11It's about following him.
07:12That's a big difference.
07:13They're not going to follow you
07:13in a preseason camp.
07:15There's nothing you can buy into
07:16in a preseason camp.
07:17No, that's exactly how Russell Wilson,
07:18who himself is a big goober,
07:20how he took the job
07:21from Matt Flynn and Tavares Jackson.
07:22Yeah, but when did they follow him?
07:23When he went to the Super Bowl in year two.
07:25That's when they followed him.
07:26But no, they trusted him
07:27as a third-round rookie
07:28because of the way he comported himself
07:30and how he brought people through it.
07:33Yeah, but Shador,
07:33he's not playing.
07:34I just think it's incredibly hard
07:35to get people to follow you
07:36if you're not playing.
07:37Well, but how did Russell Wilson go
07:39from a third-round pick
07:40to taking a job
07:42that he wasn't supposed to win?
07:43He was just flat-out better
07:44than everyone was the deal there.
07:45Well, okay,
07:46so Shador has not been that yet.
07:47And that, I think,
07:48is the better criticism
07:49than saying people aren't following him.
07:50He didn't lose the job
07:52because people didn't follow him.
07:54No, no, no.
07:54He lost the job
07:54because Munkin didn't think
07:55he was good enough.
07:56I think there is a difference
07:57between not following him,
07:59not liking him,
08:00and again,
08:01there is the Mahomes kind of leadership.
08:03There is the,
08:05I'm trying to think of it,
08:06the Tom Brady style of leadership.
08:07There's a seriousness
08:08that goes with playing quarterback
08:10in the NFL.
08:10I just think he wasn't good enough.
08:12Like, Munkin clearly didn't think
08:13he was good enough.
08:13Because on that point,
08:15I don't think it's as if
08:15Watson had a bunch of followers.
08:17It's not as if Watson
08:18had a bunch of people
08:19that were, like,
08:20going to bat for Deshaun Watson
08:21at that point.
08:22I don't know.
08:22I don't know.
08:23I just think,
08:24I think,
08:25whatever you want to call it,
08:27maturity,
08:28goofiness,
08:29gooberishness,
08:30whatever you want to call it,
08:32Shador demonstrated,
08:33again,
08:34the thing yesterday
08:35that he's demonstrated
08:36to NFL teams
08:38that caused him to go
08:39from people thinking
08:40he was a second round
08:41down to a fifth rounder.
08:42And I want this kid
08:44to succeed
08:44because,
08:45quite frankly,
08:45I want to watch
08:47fun offense on Sunday.
08:48And I also don't want
08:50to go back to losing.
08:51So,
08:52I need somebody
08:53to step up
08:54and grab the brass ring,
08:55and then the sooner
08:56somebody can do it,
08:56the better.
08:57And I'm willing
08:58to live with
08:59the Shador experience,
09:00including his
09:01absolutely bat bleep
09:02insane,
09:03and that's not
09:04every Shador supporter,
09:05by the way,
09:06but the lunatic fringe
09:08that follows him around,
09:09I'm willing to deal
09:09with that.
09:10But,
09:11like,
09:11when you come out
09:12and you handle
09:12yourself yesterday
09:13in what is your
09:14big moment,
09:15and you have
09:16some sort of
09:17childishness
09:18towards reporters,
09:20to me,
09:21I don't care
09:22how it,
09:22you know,
09:23oh,
09:23Mary Kay's
09:24going to survive,
09:25Daryl and
09:27Tony Grossi,
09:28they've survived
09:29countless clownish
09:30quarterbacks before,
09:31but,
09:32like,
09:32this is your moment
09:33to show everybody
09:34you're ready
09:35for the moment,
09:35and you're trying
09:36to play games
09:37like you're
09:37Deion Sanders.
09:38Well,
09:38Bud,
09:38you're not.
09:39You've not,
09:40you've not earned
09:41the latitude
09:42to act that way
09:43and then walk
09:44through that locker
09:44room like you
09:45are something.
09:46No,
09:46and we agree
09:46on that.
09:47We agree
09:47on that.
09:47That's why
09:48yesterday we went
09:49after him
09:49in a pretty
09:49hard way.
09:51Yesterday was not,
09:52that was not good
09:52for Shador
09:53in any sort of way,
09:54and I don't think
09:55that's representational
09:56of people not
09:56following him,
09:57though.
09:57I just think
09:57he was just a,
09:59as you said,
09:59goober.
10:00He's just a goober
10:00to the media yesterday.
10:02Why did Jerry Judy
10:04not follow him last year?
10:05Why did Jerry Judy
10:08Watson this year?
10:09Actually,
10:09did Sean Watson
10:10last year,
10:10too.
10:12I think that's like,
10:13that's supposed to,
10:13wide receivers and
10:14quarterbacks supposed
10:15to go hand in hand.
10:16I know Jerry is a
10:18complicated figure,
10:19but I think Jerry's,
10:20Jerry's the veteran
10:21in that wide receiver
10:22room right there.
10:24What's that about?
10:26What's Jerry Judy
10:27not being a supporter
10:28of him?
10:28I think Jerry just
10:30genuinely liked
10:30to Sean better.
10:31But I think if I
10:32pulled 53 different
10:33people in that
10:34locker room and
10:34asked different
10:35Browns players,
10:36during training camp,
10:37it would have been
10:38split.
10:39It would not have
10:39been 53 all
10:40following to Sean
10:41to the end of the
10:42earth.
10:44Yeah,
10:45because if like
10:45to Sean had some
10:46sort of like big,
10:47like everyone just
10:47follows him type
10:48mentality,
10:49he had Jerry Judy
10:50sticking up for him.
10:51That was really
10:51about it.
10:52I don't know
10:53that that's true.
10:532-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-9-2.
10:57Is Shador,
10:58whether it's too
10:59goofy, immature,
11:00however you want to
11:01say it,
11:01we'll just say too
11:02much like Jameis
11:03Winston.
11:03In a battle of who's
11:04mature between
11:05Deshaun Watson and
11:06Shador Sanders,
11:07Deshaun is not
11:08winning that battle.
11:09Yeah,
11:10there's a professional
11:11I think we've got a
11:12lot of history on
11:12that side.
11:13Yeah,
11:13you're talking about
11:14off the field issues
11:15versus how you can
11:16port yourself in a
11:16locker room,
11:17which are two very
11:17different things.
11:18They do all go
11:19together,
11:19do they not?
11:20Yeah,
11:20no,
11:20guys in the NFL
11:21locker room don't
11:22care about what
11:22Deshaun did off the
11:23field.
11:23That's been proven
11:24time and time again.
11:24I think some guys
11:25did.
11:26Yeah,
11:26no,
11:27clearly not enough
11:28did.
11:29No,
11:29he didn't win the
11:29job based off of
11:30whether he was
11:30mature or not.
11:31He won the job
11:32because Todd
11:32Munkin thought he
11:33was a better
11:33football player.
11:34Which part are we
11:36talking about?
11:36We're bouncing
11:36between three
11:37different points
11:37here.
11:38No,
11:38the point's
11:38simple.
11:39You're trying to
11:39make a case that
11:40Shador Sanders
11:41lost the job
11:42because enough
11:43people didn't
11:43foul him.
11:44No,
11:44I'm saying he
11:45can't start in the
11:45NFL if he's
11:46going to be a
11:47clown.
11:47But he didn't
11:48win the job
11:48because Todd
11:49Munkin thought
11:50that Deshaun was
11:51better.
11:53You have to act
11:54like an adult.
11:55These are men.
11:56These are guys
11:57putting their necks
11:58and their asses on
11:59the line every
12:00day.
12:00You want to act
12:01like a jackass,
12:02go back to
12:03Colorado.
12:04You want to act
12:04like a child,
12:05go be on TikTok.
12:07And by the way,
12:08I say this as
12:08somebody who's
12:09excited to watch
12:10Shador play.
12:11But we got to
12:11rip the band-aid
12:12off.
12:13Grow up,
12:14kid.
12:14Play like an
12:15adult.
12:15Deshaun was really
12:16acting like an
12:17adult in the
12:17preseason.
12:17That's not about
12:18Deshaun.
12:19And by the way,
12:20you know I would
12:20have shot his ass
12:21out of Cleveland
12:21on a rocket if I
12:22could have.
12:23You tried.
12:24You did.
12:24But that's why
12:25you can't make the
12:25whole basis off of
12:26whether one guy's
12:27mature and one guy
12:27isn't when neither
12:28one of them have
12:29been particularly
12:29mature.
