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Why Shedeur Sanders' sideline reaction during Browns' win over Steelers is being analyzed
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00:00All right, let's get into this.
00:02This is another one of these segments that are probably going to go haywire,
00:04but fine.
00:05You sent me a video of the sideline reacting to the Andre Schmidt field goal,
00:14right?
00:14Well, before I sent it to you,
00:15I sent it to the afternoon show because I wanted to get their reaction.
00:20And they accused me of trying to set a trap.
00:23You set a trap?
00:24A trap that they kind of fell into.
00:27And then I thought they had a great segment about it.
00:29I thought it was an amazing conversation of what spawned off it.
00:33What was it?
00:35In the end, it took a bigger picture view of how maybe somebody like Shador feels
00:41in a situation where he thought he'd be the starter by now and is not the starter
00:44and how you would react to that
00:47and whether or not you'd even want to be a part of that.
00:50Okay.
00:50Well, one step at a time.
00:52We'll get to that part of it here in a second.
00:55Here's Nick and Jonathan reacting to what you sent them.
00:59Now, this was all over the internet, but you just took a link from what was on the internet.
01:03You sent it to him.
01:04Here's Nick and Jonathan about Shador's reaction or lack thereof.
01:08This is after the Andre Schmidt field goal, right?
01:10Okay.
01:11The lack of reaction from Shador after the Andre Schmidt.
01:13Hold on.
01:13We got to be clear.
01:14Is that after the field goal or is it after the interception?
01:17I think it's after the interception.
01:19I think it's after the interception.
01:20I didn't know.
01:21Okay.
01:21That closes out the game, essentially.
01:22All right.
01:23After the pick.
01:23Go ahead.
01:24I don't know what people think the reaction is going to be from Shador in this moment.
01:27I think people think because he's a member of the Browns, he's just supposed to unilaterally
01:31cheer for everything that happens, Browns-related, and he's supposed to be excited about everything.
01:35Think about it if you're Shador in this spot.
01:37You thought going into this year it'd take you two weeks and then you'd be the starter.
01:40And after week four and starting three and one, you realize unless an injury happens,
01:44you might not start at all this season.
01:46Like, there's a lot about this year that's got to be not soul-crushing, but it's got to
01:49be incredibly demoralizing to Shador.
01:51And yes, he's going to root for the Browns in the sense that he wants the team to do well,
01:55but individually, this is not going the way that Shador Sanders envisioned or wanted.
01:59All right.
02:00I think you did fall in line with this trap.
02:02What other backup quarterback do we say?
02:04Well, he's going to be disappointed on the sidelines.
02:06I think Shador's just not a big reactive guy.
02:08But I would say that about any quarterback, though.
02:10Like, if you're in their spot and you thought you were going to be able to start this year
02:13and it was going to be basically a two-week, let Deshaun Watson fall flat on his face and
02:17then I'll have my opportunity.
02:18How are you not disappointed at how this season has gone?
02:21How are you not disappointed that now you're watching your opportunity go up in smoke?
02:24And again, it's a tip of the cap to Deshaun because he got the chance out of the gate
02:28and he's doing right.
02:28But if you're Shador, it doesn't mean you have to walk around being the biggest cheerleader
02:31ever.
02:34All right.
02:34I think to accuse Shador Sanders of pouting is a very strong accusation.
02:42If you accuse a quarterback, I'm not going to do this.
02:45Because if you sit there and go, oh, Kansas, you do a fit.
02:48No, you accuse a young quarterback of pouting while a team goes out there and wins, you know
02:52what you're doing.
02:53And I'm not going to subscribe to that because I don't know for a fact.
02:57I don't know for a fact.
02:58Yeah, you don't know what's going through his mind.
02:59I don't know what was going through his mind.
03:00I can't imagine he was upset that the team won the football game.
03:04Now, we do read Jerry Judy's body language.
03:06So, we got to be fair because we had pointed out that it didn't seem like when they had
03:12won a previous game that Jerry Judy seemed to be all that into it.
03:15Jerry Judy looked pissed.
03:16Right.
03:17Shador, I don't think, looked mad.
03:19Well, he definitely didn't have his watch up like he does after every first down.
03:22Well, he didn't.
03:24Yeah, see, he knows what he's doing.
03:26Well, he does.
03:27That is his celebration, right?
03:28Here comes the wizard.
03:29Well, no, no, no.
03:29Hold on.
03:30Here comes the wizard.
03:31Well, Jonathan says he doesn't really celebrate that much.
03:33No, he celebrates more than any quarterback I've ever seen.
03:35He does it after every completed pass.
03:37When he's playing?
03:38Yeah.
03:39So, am I supposed to deduce that he's pouting now that they're doing well without him?
03:44I definitely wouldn't have used the term pouting.
03:46I know that that's the term that people are using online.
03:48I actually kind of agree with Jonathan here.
03:50I think this has been a roller coaster of emotions for somebody like...
03:55You really agree with Jonathan, but you were going to specify that he celebrates every first down.
03:58Yeah, well, he does.
03:59That is his trademark.
04:00I mean, that's...
04:01I think he tried to trademark it, actually.
04:04Celebrating first down, his trademark is applying for trademarks.
04:08Yeah.
04:08I think so.
04:09But either way, I didn't call it pouting.
04:13I think this has been a roller coaster of emotions from somebody that was a part of one of the
04:19biggest college football turnaround stories.
04:23Was one of the best college quarterbacks.
04:25Was being talked about as if he could go number two overall in the draft.
04:28Then falls all the way down to round number five.
04:31Has everybody in the league talking about why he fell to number five.
04:34His fan base alleging grand conspiracy.
04:36The rest of the league saying, no, he kind of sabotaged his own draft stock.
04:41Him and his representation or whatever.
04:44There are definitely people that hate his guts, even though he seems like the nicest guy ever.
04:49Oozing with charisma around every turn.
04:51Remember, he was a four-string quarterback.
04:53When he was the third-string quarterback, reporters were coming up to him to get his thoughts on games.
04:58Something that just doesn't happen in the NFL.
05:00I didn't bash him for that.
05:04He signed a $17 million licensing deal with the trading card company because they thought he would be a starting
05:11quarterback by now.
05:12They don't do that to backups.
05:14They don't do that just because they thought he's big on Twitch or whatever.
05:18They did that because they thought he'd be starting and being able to build his fan base and sell more
05:23jerseys and sell more trading cards.
05:25Now, for the second straight year, he's had two different coaching staff say, you're not ready to play football.
05:31And he got drafted behind Dylan Gabriel.
05:34And now Deshaun Watson, who was a pariah at the start of the year, is the quarterback.
05:39And now he's earning the runway until he's done.
05:42But I don't think that that manifested in that moment.
05:44You don't think that enters into the psyche of a young man?
05:47At that moment?
05:48No, not necessarily at that moment.
05:50I think that he was relieved because I think to accuse him pout is a strong accusation unless I absolutely
05:57know for sure.
05:58I agree.
05:58That is a strong one.
05:59He definitely wasn't cheering.
06:01But my issue with it, this is where I'm going to now point the arrows at you here.
06:07Who sent it to Afternoon Drive?
06:08I did.
06:09Okay.
06:10Who wanted Afternoon Drive to talk about it?
06:12Oh, I did.
06:13Why did you want Afternoon Drive to talk about it?
06:16Because their show was so staunchly in the category of thinking that Watson was, that Shador was robbed of the
06:25starting job.
06:26All right.
06:26So either A, you want to hammer him, and you're looking for a way to hammer him.
06:31Hammer him?
06:32I think you're looking for a door to hammer him for his lack of reaction.
06:35No, I don't think I was hammering him at all.
06:37Yeah, you say that, but then the first thing you say in your passive-aggressive way, in your passive-aggressive
06:42tone tone, is why he celebrates every first down.
06:45Celebrates every first down.
06:46He does.
06:47Let me go to the judge.
06:48Did he or did he not bring that up?
06:49He did bring that up.
06:50Twice.
06:51At least twice.
06:52Maybe three times.
06:53Well, that's just on air.
06:54That was in response to Jonathan saying he doesn't celebrate.
06:57I said he actually celebrates the most I've ever seen a quarterback celebrate.
07:00So you took this 15-second clip, I think it was.
07:04Am I wrong?
07:05Hold on.
07:05Am I wrong?
07:06I don't remember.
07:07He hasn't played for a while.
07:08It's been a long time since last year.
07:10Wait a second.
07:11That's his signature move.
07:12I will go with you that he does.
07:14Fine.
07:15I don't know if that equates to the sidelines when he's not playing.
07:19All right?
07:20So, again, to say he pouts, which you did not say, I understand that.
07:27I think it's a very strong accusation.
07:29But I think you want to talk about it.
07:30I think you want to put it in people's heads that he was pouting.
07:32I think you do.
07:34You sent it to Afternoon Drive.
07:36You wanted them to do it.
07:37They did it.
07:39I think you wanted the door to be able to do it.
07:41So you weren't the one beating up on Shador.
07:43You weren't the one who was going to be all nasty and getting nasty tweets
07:46and nasty messages about beating up on Shador.
07:49You got what you wanted.
07:50And in your passive-aggressive way, because you pussyfooted around the situation
07:53for about two and a half good minutes there before you really got into it.
07:56I think that you really want to either hammer him or you want people just to stick it in
08:03the back of their mind that maybe.
08:04And I'll go a bit further.
08:06Let me ask you something.
08:08What do you know?
08:09Do you know something I don't know?
08:11About?
08:11That maybe he's unhappy?
08:13Because why would you be so gung-ho to send it to our co-hosts, our co-workers,
08:18and then go right on ahead and want to bring this up while the Guardians got a game tonight
08:23while the Browns are 3-1?
08:24Look, I don't know what he's feeling because he thought he'd be starting right now.
08:28Most competitive guys, they don't want to be the backup.
08:32And I know we have some other audio to play for the afternoon show.
08:35So I know that competitive guys that are big-time personalities, like, yeah,
08:40they're not content being the backup.
08:42But you are a person who studies sociology without even having to study sociology.
08:48I will full-on admit that Lima has a higher IQ than me, smarter than me,
08:53has trapped me many times before.
08:55You know what the IQ is, but I believe yours would probably be higher.
09:01I think you know and I know that just by having the conversation,
09:04all it does, as you've done with me a million times,
09:06and you've planted a forest of thoughts in my head,
09:09that all it takes is one little five-minute conversation to plant a seed.
09:13And now people are going to be watching him like a hawk on the sideline of the Jets game.
09:17Well, I defended him.
09:17They're going to be watching him like a hawk.
09:19They will, and I defended him when people talked about not having a headset
09:23or not having an earpiece.
09:24And I'm like, well, sometimes he does.
09:25This makes me wonder if you knew what his demeanor was on the sideline
09:30and that you would like to bring that up because here we are.
09:32I just got to ask.
09:34I was definitely getting texts during the game.
09:36Okay.
09:37Now we're out with it.
09:38Well, but to me, I wasn't ready to make any big proclamations
09:44about the sentiment that he has about this team being 3-1
09:47and him not being the starting quarterback.
09:49But, you know, there were texts that I got that in the locker room
09:52he wasn't as overjoyed as his teammates were.
09:54There we go.
09:56The truth shall set you free, baby.
09:59But everybody, in some ways, their joy or their level of content,
10:07like it's manifested in different ways.
10:08Nick Chubb was never the guy that was jumping up and down,
10:12celebrating all the time.
10:13Hey, congratulations.
10:13You got what you wanted.
10:15You got the show that is most approached your door,
10:18which is afternoon drive, to talk about this.
10:21And then you got to get it out because you got texts
10:24that he must not have been very thrilled that they won the game,
10:27which is concerning.
10:28I'll tell you that.
10:29I'm not going to say that you're making it up.
10:31But I'm not saying he's not thrilled.
10:31I don't think you make things up.
10:32I don't know if he's thrilled or not.
10:34You just said you got texts that were people wondering
10:36if he was thrilled about winning.
10:37Because everybody's trying to be a body language expert
10:39in situations like these, and I've been guilty of that too.
10:42What I'm saying is I think I'd be in a similar way.
10:46I don't think I'd be as overjoyed.
10:48Every game that Deshaun Watson plays well is another game
10:51or another week that he's going to have to wait his turn.
10:54And we see in the NFL sometimes that turn never comes.
10:58Sometimes it never does.
10:59There are a bunch of guys that thought they were ready
11:01to spring into action and then never got that opportunity.
11:04I know you really well, and I know that you like to play
11:08psychiatrist with me basically every morning.
11:10We do a part of a segment where you try to dig into my psyche
11:13and ask me what I truly mean.
11:15And you're a guy who wanted Deshaun Watson.
11:17Deshaun Watson has done reasonably well.
11:19You had an argument with analytical people this week on the Internet
11:22about how well Deshaun Watson has done.
11:24And then this gets brought up.
11:27Well, I think everybody and their brother knows that you like to twist
11:29the screws on Shador fans.
11:31And this was another place where you're going, hey, the Browns are 3-1.
11:34The quarterback that you advocated for is doing a much better job
11:38than what people thought he would be able to do in playing winning football.
11:41And then this video is seen, and you see everybody,
11:44a lot of other people hooting and hollering and whooping it up
11:47over a Browns victory.
11:48And then he's standing there, and you said, get my screwdriver out.
11:51Is it Phillips head or is it flathead?
11:53And you found a way to turn the screws a little bit more.
11:56So let me ask you this.
11:57What do you think?
11:58What do you think?
11:59Were you surprised to see?
12:00I think I was probably just relieved.
12:01I'm going, because I don't know.
12:03I did not receive texts about how he was reacting in the locker room.
12:06I do not know other things about this.
12:09I can only go by what I know, and to say that a teammate who plays
12:14a leadership position, for me to say that he was upset, pouting,
12:19anything but happy that the team won without knowing for a fact
12:24is irresponsible by me.
12:26And I'm not going to do it.
12:27I've acted irresponsibly by accident in the past.
12:30I'm not going to act irresponsibly here knowing it.
12:32No.
12:32Well, just everybody in that stadium was cheering.
12:35He looked like the one guy that wasn't.
12:36Todd Munkin wasn't cheering, but Todd Munkin's the head coach
12:38of the football team.
12:39I saw him running around, dabbing up every single fan.
12:43That was after the game, but in the moment of the game.
12:46Well, I can tell you, I know for a fact,
12:46Watson was not doing that after the game.
12:48Okay.
12:48All right.
12:49For the people that were.
12:50So he acted exactly like Baker Mayfield did after the Lions win.
12:54His own fan.
12:55According to you.
12:56Well, wait a second.
12:56What was the situation after the Lions game?
12:59Baker Mayfield ran off the field and then didn't talk to the media.
13:02And why was that?
13:03Because he played poorly and they won.
13:04Yes.
13:05But they won.
13:05And there were a lot of mixed emotions about where the team was.
13:09Yeah, but he was the starting quarterback at the time.
13:11At least that conversation was worth it.
13:12This is a three-in-one football team where everybody supporting the Browns
13:17could not believe that they were three-in-one and that they had another
13:20come-from-behind win.
13:20Yeah.
13:21And I feel the same way that everybody else did.
13:24But I also believe that it's a little bit wrong to plant the seed,
13:28especially for a lot of people who are Browns fans,
13:31that might be, I think, maybe torn, lukewarm about the quarterback situation
13:37right now, might be annoyed by Shador-only fans who have dropped in
13:42and said that, you know, they love Shador and they want him off the team.
13:45But the second you talk about possibly trading him,
13:48then you don't know what's good for you and you get mad.
13:50That, I'm going to say it.
13:52But the other stuff, I don't know.
13:53I've just been around this wizard a long time.
13:58And I think right now you've got your hat on and the mops are walking behind you
14:03and you are getting ready to conduct.
14:05I'm just saying, I think I see something different here.
14:10There was a lot of pussyfooting around that last segment.
14:12I'm not going to participate in it.
14:15I mean, I'm going to participate in the show, but I'm not.
14:19If you think I'm going to wonder whether or not he was pouting.
14:22I was just surprised to see how many Browns fans agreed that they thought he was pouting.
14:25Interesting, though, you got those texts.
14:27You made sure that that's a seed that you're going to cover up and plant
14:29and let everything grow in the back of people's head.
14:31I thought you got similar texts.
14:33No.
14:33Okay.
14:34If I had got similar texts, when have I ever not told you I got texts?
14:39Like four times in the history of the show?
14:42Of any consequence.
14:44I've not told you maybe a handful of times.
14:47In ten years.
14:49So, no, I did not get texts.
14:52Are you going to go ahead and do this now?
14:54You wanted to scream from the rooftops calling me the L word?
14:59Well, Kenny was undermining my credibility in the last couple minutes of the segment.
15:02No, no, no, no, no, no.
15:03I did not undermine your credibility.
15:05No, no, no.
15:06I did not undermine credibility.
15:09No, that is wrong.
15:10I undermined your motive.
15:13I undermined your motive.
15:14I'm not saying you're not credible.
15:16I'm not saying that you were lying about people texting you from the locker room about Shador's demeanor.
15:24That, I did not.
15:24You can go back and check those tapes.
15:26I did not do that.
15:27I question your motive.
15:29Well, we can also check the tapes out.
15:31It was, send it to the afternoon.
15:33Send it in, Jerome.
15:35Let him talk about it.
15:36So, he could talk about it.
15:37Well, because we weren't on the air at that time.
15:39So, it would give him a chance to plant the seed.
15:42Either, A, he gets to hammer Shador Sanders for quote-unquote pouting.
15:45Or, B, he gets to plant the seed that everybody's going to be watching him if all of a sudden
15:50they turn up and they start doing well against the New York Jets on Sunday.
15:54I know how you operate.
15:55I know your games.
15:56I know your gimmicks.
15:57While Ken has us checking some tapes, we can check another one.
16:00There absolutely was a text that Ken was on the receiving end of that did indicate that it was a
16:07full, I'm reading the text now, a full quote pout in the post-game locker room.
16:15While everybody else was going nuts.
16:16I did not see that.
16:18I did not, on, on my dead mother, I did not see that text.
16:21I can't see everything.