Why Good Employees Leave: Pay Transparency & Retention Mistakes CEOs Make

Name: Why Good Employees Leave: Pay Transparency & Retention Mistakes CEOs Make | Scott Trumpolt
Uploaded: 2026-11-11T14:41:31+00:00
Duration: 34 min 58 s
Channel: Workforce Alchemy

00:02Welcome to the Workforce Alchemy Show. I'm today's host, Mason Dugacek. This episode

00:08is brought to you by WorkforceAlchemy.com, where business leaders discover practical ways

00:14to select, engage, and retain their best employees. Pay transparency sounds simple

00:21until employees start asking why they make what they make and what it will take to earn more.

00:28Scott Trumple has spent more than 30 years inside the world of compensation. In his new book,

00:35The Transparency of Compensation, argues that the answer is not simply revealing more numbers.

00:40It is connecting pay, career growth, and business value in a way employees can actually understand.

00:48Scott, welcome to the show. Thank you, Mason. It's wonderful to be on here and to get a chance

00:53to address your viewers and your listeners. I'm very appreciative.

00:56So, when CEOs hear the words, pay transparency, many immediately think about publishing salary

01:04ranges. What do you think they misunderstand about what employees are really asking for?

01:09Well, this is the whole issue. When you think of CEOs, they usually think about most things

01:15strategically. But in the case when something like pay ranges come up, this is a human resources issue,

01:24and it's a natural thing for them to think about it tactically. In other words, oh, this is all about

01:32hosting pay ranges or making what one individual makes compared to another. That's what they're really

01:38talking about. And that's not really what employees are looking for. The employees really, and having

01:47been around it in the corporate world for a number of years, they're looking for transparency, not

01:52necessarily about what someone else is making or what a job is making. They want to know how their pay

02:00is constructed for their particular role within the organization. How do they fit in as an individual?

02:08And so, what is often occurs with compensation, and I'm oversimplifying on this first question,

02:15but what is often happening is that they're getting a very static in the moment view of their current job,

02:23and they're not getting the opportunity to see how that job, why they're getting paid the way they

02:30are, how it's developed. And most importantly, from a career development perspective, how do I grow my

02:36value? Because essentially, that's what it's all about. You're getting paid something at a point,

02:40a moment in time. But ultimately, how do you grow your pay? You grow your pay becoming more and more

02:47vital to the organization, to the business need. So, if we can train our work, our management team

02:55that have this relationship with the employee, because keep in mind, the book is called The

03:00Transparency of Compensation, but also it has a subtitle, The Employee Engagement Response.

03:05And this is crucial to understand, because what I'm talking about in this interview and in this book

03:11is the idea that taking compensation out of the shadows is not just something that we need to do

03:19because of certain laws and certain needs of the latest generations of employees as we're living in

03:25this more age of disclosure. It's really about this idea of the engagement factor. How can we engage

03:36employees in the workplace through compensation? And compensation is often considered an unlikely

03:41candidate to be used for employee engagement. But what I argue in the book is it's one of the best

03:48now because we can link the idea of employee pay to career development to business need.

03:54So, you describe compensation as traditionally operating inside a black box. Can you give us

03:59an example of a company where secrecy around how pay decisions were made created a bigger problem than

04:05the actual amount the employees are being paid?

04:08Well, just in a general sense, not a specific company, in a general sense, compensation has

04:14been kept in a black box. When you think about in an organization, no one ever communicates anything

04:20about pay. If you work in a corporation, they'll talk all about your benefits enrollment. They'll have

04:25a detailed communication plan about what your new benefits are going to be, how much it's going to

04:30cost for you and what the company is paying. There are all these types of conversations. But because

04:35compensation is so much linked to individuals getting paid different amounts of money and because

04:44employers are so worried about the confidentiality of pay information, protecting the confidentiality of

04:52individual employees, it just by nature, by habit, has been kept in a black box where only a few people

05:00understand how it works. But what's changing now is the, so it's just a historical precedent

05:07that has happened. And what is changing now is what's going on in the environment around it.

05:14We have new pay transparency laws that are being impacted in different states, not all the states,

05:20but in a lot of states. So this makes a big difference in terms of companies having to show

05:26the pay ranges for different jobs and it gets employees thinking, but it provides more questions

05:32than it does answers to the employees because it's just a range of numbers. And then the other part of

05:39that too is that employees, the newest generations of employees in this age of disclosure that's

05:46developing, they want more information of the how, not just the number. So the environment is changing

05:52and that's why we have to come up with solutions to make compensation more transparent. That's the

05:58big difference. It was kept in a black box because it could be kept in a black box. Now that

06:03is changing

06:04where we have to come up with creative ways not to threaten the confidentiality of what companies do

06:10from a pay perspective, but sharing how they get to the numbers that they get to in terms of what

06:17they pay

06:17employees. And most companies use very much a market-based method. That is something that we can explain to

06:23employees to make them understand. Even if they don't agree, they can understand better why things are the way

06:30they are. And then we start looking at compensation from a longer term perspective, which they're not getting.

06:36They're just getting the static once a year conversation about what they're making in terms of their current job.

06:43And that's just a dead end and it's not going to work.

06:47So how do you know when a compensation problem is really a pay problem and when an employee who says,

06:53hey, I'm underpaid is actually telling you something about their career growth, their trust,

06:57or their relationship with their manager?

06:59Well, it's like you have to build a business case. You have to look at the situation as a whole

07:06to determine what's really going on. How long has the employee been with the company? What has their

07:13performance been like? And then looking at their market, where they are in terms of their market

07:19value for their job? So if someone, for example, is, and this will answer your question, if someone

07:25has been with the company for five years and they're getting paid above their market value,

07:32that's not a pay issue. That's a career development issue. Because they are doing well at their job.

07:39They should be doing well at their job because they've been there for five years. They have

07:43had an opportunity to adapt and to learn their job quite well. They're obviously ready for the next

07:49step, but there's no conversation happening about how they get to the next step. Because the whole idea

07:57is, I talk about in the book about career compensation. Compensation is not a one and done

08:03deal. It's a longer term perspective. And that's what's missing today from an employee engagement

08:09perspective when we talk about compensation transparency. So you have to look at the

08:14individual factors for each individual that's involved to determine based on where they are against

08:20their market. Is this a pay issue or is it more of a career development issue where their pay is

08:26going

08:26to grow if we can get them where they need to be from a business perspective?

08:31So what does a conversation built around career compensation sound like compared with the

08:36traditional conversation about somebody just wanting to raise?

08:41Well, it happens every year when an employee goes into their annual merit review process and they find

08:48out they have an understanding that there's a 3% merit increase, but for some reason,

08:52they only got a 2% merit increase. And generally, the response from the manager is something along

08:59the lines of, well, that's what's in the budget. That's all we can do. Where the conversation

09:05dynamic, that becomes dead end and static. What they should do is say, the reason you got a 2%

09:12increase instead of a 3% or even a more higher percent increase is because you're paid above your

09:17market value for the job that you are in right now. You are a terrific performer. You've been with

09:23the company for five years. We need to map out a plan so that we can quickly get you to

09:29the next level

09:30of contribution within your role. That's what career compensation is because remember

09:36that an individual job like a financial analyst is not just a financial analyst. There are different

09:42career levels of financial analysts. And depending on the scope and the complexity of where you are

09:49as a financial analyst in that company, there are different levels. So if you have been in the company

09:54for five years and you're doing a fantastic job and you're getting paid at your market value or above

10:00your value, that's a clear indicator that you're ready for the next step in your development. It does not

10:05mean that you need to become a manager to make more money. It needs to be that you're now very

10:10experienced. And we need to take that experience and use it to a higher level degree within your

10:19field so that you can continue your career growth, your pay growth from a career development perspective.

10:25It's about changing the dynamic from a static. Here's what you're getting paid to a development

10:31perspective. That's the change that needs to take place in these conversations.

10:35So what should a CEO do when a valuable employee gets an outside offer and management suddenly wants

10:43to give that person more money to keep them? Is the counteroffer solving the problem or simply

10:48postponing a resignation? No, it's not solving the problem. It's not a good idea because what it says

10:56to the employee is that suddenly because of certain circumstances, I'm suddenly $10,000,

11:02$20,000 more valuable than I was yesterday. It's not something that's going to engage them if you

11:09give it. They know it will be done somewhat under duress because they've gone through this process

11:15of getting an outside offer and then bringing in. And so you have a couple of options. One is you

11:22should

11:23just let that employee go its way because that relationship has already been tarnished. Or another

11:30thing you can consider that can keep it competitive is to give that individual some type of a special

11:37performance bonus that doesn't add to fixed costs, but says, if you do these different things over the

11:44course of the next six months, we will offset that increase that you were going to get through variable

11:50pay. Then at least you're keeping it within the perfect pay for performance component. But just giving money

11:56because you're forced into retaining that individual, you will be retaining them, but probably

12:01they will be more disengaged and they will probably be leaving shortly anyways. So it's not a winning

12:08situation to meet that. I could see the employees sitting there saying, well, why would I take this

12:14performance-based? If you can do this, this, this, and that, then you'll get these performance bonuses

12:19when by leaving I got that guaranteed. Why would I take the risk? Well, the, the, the, the question

12:26is, is that sometimes the grass is not always greener where you go, unless they've done a thorough job

12:31checking out their, their company, they may be getting that additional pay, but then are they

12:36going to be stuck once they get there? The idea is also that we need to, again, this idea of

12:42what is

12:42your future like? What can we offer in terms of a future for this organization? Because people, the

12:49may be thinking narrowly just about today, but if the company that they're thinking of leaving

12:54because they got more money somewhere else is going to be able to convince them that other

12:59opportunities are going to be, be opening up. And there's that type of dialogue and that type of

13:04conversation between the manager and the employee that can make a big difference. Are you going to,

13:09if you're going to leave just for another five or $10,000, then my, my feeling is, is that, that,

13:17that, that, that they don't see opportunities in their current company to move their career

13:24forward. So just for five or $10,000 to just make a jump and go to another company. But if

13:30they feel

13:31that the company they're working for is the place where they can really grow over time into higher

13:36level jobs, I think you're going to have to do a lot more than a small increase. If someone's leaving

13:40for a small increase, $10,000 or whatever, chances are that that company that they're at currently

13:46has not outlined what the future business can mean to them in their career. That's what's missing.

13:53That's a, that's a signal for anybody listening because it might, maybe you say, oh, if it's just

14:00five or $10,000, even if it's 20 or $30,000, the reverse of that is also valuable advice because

14:06what I'm reading between lines is saying, Hey, employers who do a very good job of laying out a,

14:13a future and mentoring and career path planning and doing the things that you're talking about,

14:20then people will stay because they understand what the future looks like and why it looks that way.

14:26And they have some degree of certainty that they wouldn't have had if the employer hadn't taken

14:30the time to do the things that you're talking about. And if people are leaving for five or 10,

14:35or even a significant amount of money, what about those that stay because they do the things right?

14:41It's like talk about a competitive advantage and retention strategy is to execute the things

14:46that you're talking about so that people understand what the future looks like. And there's not as much

14:52risk and there's more certainty. Good employers who take the time to do the things that you're

14:56talking about, in my opinion, are likely to keep a lot of the folks that they otherwise might've lost

15:01unnecessarily. Yeah. Keep in mind though, these are all individual situations that we've been

15:06talking about, individual scenarios. They're very relevant. But the thing is, is that you've got

15:12to change the culture. That's what my book is talking about. Different parties need to,

15:18like human resources, the different stakeholders, the middle manager, the employee, the type of

15:24information that they receive or they're looking at out there. Everybody is involved in making this a

15:31different culture. And that's what I map out in my book because it's not going to solve individual

15:37situations like we're talking about. There has got to be a cultural change within the organization

15:43when it comes to transparency. I agree 100%. And that's what I was getting at. If the company

15:47does a good job of executing what you're describing organization-wide, then I would think that would

15:54become a competitive retention tool as opposed to- Absolutely. Because to this point, you hear

16:01about these companies that you might wonder, you see these posters or these certifications when you

16:06walk into the reception area. Voted one of the certified as one of the hundred best companies to

16:11work for. Well, what does that mean? People just see this and they think it's just words on a piece

16:18of paper. Those companies have actually been certified. They have done internal employee opinion

16:23surveys. They've identified where their issues are. And it all boils down to the concept of employee

16:30engagement. If people take anything away from this podcast that we're doing right now, it is this.

16:38That compensation can play a huge role, which it's not currently doing. It's underutilized

16:43in employee engagement because those companies, best companies to work for, they score high on employee

16:50engagement results. They have looked at individual programs such as all areas of the employee work

17:00life experience. This is very important. So I want to just take a moment on this. The employee work

17:05life experience. But even for those top companies, one of the areas that they still might be lacking in

17:11is in transparency of compensation to help further their employee engagement cause. There's always some

17:18outliers when you get the certification. Maybe your employees are engaged in this way and that way and

17:22this is all great, but not in the area of compensation and the roles that different people need to play

17:29in

17:29the organization to make that culture of transparency, pay transparency, more visible to employees so they

17:37can become more engaged. And so this is the kind of thing that I talk a lot about in the

17:45book and it takes

17:46a culture-changing exercise and there are ways to do it. It's just about shifting dynamics.

17:52Maybe could you give us maybe one example? You said there's ways to do it. Can you maybe give us

17:56just

17:56one example?

17:57Well, it's like I was talking about earlier with assessing the different roles that individuals

18:03play within the organization. So the manager is going to get information about their employees,

18:10which they're not getting right now. It might be due to faulty HRIS systems. It may be to

18:15a lack of trusting managers with this information, but they're going to get information

18:20from either their human resource workforce or even AI about who are their flight risks

18:26within their organization based upon the details of the employee. Is the employee underpaid? Are they

18:34a top performer? Have they been with the company for five years? So they get this kind of information

18:39proactively so that they can talk to their employees about those individual situations,

18:45their individual situation before they become a crisis. So the managers are armed with more

18:52information. And human resources are not playing a policing role. They're playing this role where they are

18:59strategic, in effect, working as a partner with managers to provide them the information they need

19:04so they don't have to have an awkward, stilted, once a year type of conversation with an employee.

19:11And a manager is going to be armed with facts and then be able to take those facts and to

19:17speak

19:18to employees in a different way, shifting the dynamic from the immediacy of what they're making

19:23to a career development perspective, linking it to the business need, which a business middle manager

19:30should definitely know what the needs are for their organization and seeing how those top performers

19:35fit in. So what are the biggest mistakes that managers make when employees ask what they're paid?

19:44What are some of the biggest mistakes?

19:47Well, the biggest mistakes is they say things like, well, go to human resources, which to find out

19:55the answers about your pay, which that's a disengagement as well, because a lot of employees

20:01do not see human resources. They see them as representatives of the company, perhaps acting

20:07as policemen. So that's going to be a disengagement. They want to hear it from their manager, but the

20:12manager, see, this is all interdependent upon different parties in the company. So one of the

20:20biggest mistakes is it's not really their fault, but the manager becomes defensive and will say

20:27things like, well, this is all we can do and we don't have the budget for it right now. Instead

20:32of

20:32focusing on what they know is going to be occurring from a business perspective, what those needs are

20:40going to be, and then make sure that these employees who are demonstrating the kind of competencies

20:45get the kind of skill training and exposure to work assignments that are going to make that person

20:53ideal to fill that business need six months from now. So it's changing the conversation.

21:00So one example in the book involves managers giving almost everyone similar merit increases

21:05because it feels safe and more equal. Why can treating everybody the same really be unfair?

21:10And what should a CEO want managers to consider instead? Yeah, this is a big issue with managers.

21:18A lot of them just feel like I give everybody the same amount and that's how I utilize my budget.

21:25But again, this is defeating the purpose of a pay transparency. So what I would look at is the idea

21:32that you have a limited budget and you should be spreading that budget according to a few different

21:40factors that will make compensation more aware to the individuals out there. For example,

21:45you have two individuals. One individual is making currently their market level in terms of pay.

21:52They're getting paid competitively. They've been with the company for five years. They may get a lower

21:57pay increase because they're already at their market value. Even though they're a top performer,

22:03they should get less of a market, less of a merit increase because they're not only are they only at

22:08their market value, but we expect them at their market value to be doing that level of performance.

22:14Whereas someone who is low against their competitive market value and is a top performer should get a

22:21bigger increase because we want to get them closer to their market value more quickly.

22:26So two individuals, one, they're both top performers, but one of them is getting paid according to their

22:31market value and another one is not and they're a top performer. So they're underpaid in the sense that

22:37they're a really good performer and they're all, but they're, they're paid below their market value.

22:43So that individual is going to get more. It is, it may, it is not, there's one thing about equal

22:49and then

22:49there's what's fair. So that's the biggest thing that I would recommend is that employees don't just

22:55look at the merit pay program in terms of the increase, but in terms of the performance level

23:01of employee and where they fit against their competitive value in their pay range.

23:06I love that distinction with equal versus fair because they're not the same thing. I love that.

23:13That's a, Jim, I appreciate you sharing that, Scott.

23:15Well, it's, it's an issue that is hard for employees to understand, to get their hands around it.

23:22They think, well, I'm, I'm a great performer. I should get a top increase every year. And maybe

23:27for years they were, but now they're at their full market value. Now we don't want to turn around

23:33and say to them, you're not valuable to us anymore. You're actually more valuable, but you have reached

23:38the limit within what you're doing right now. You are a top performer. You should be, you've been here

23:44for, for five years. You've put in the work to do that, but you know what? This is not a

23:49signal that

23:50we're going to cut your pay or keep your pay the same. That's what they usually hear an employee

23:55hears. What we need to say is that you're ready for the next step in this organization. And that's

24:01how you're going to continue to grow your pay. So it's a great idea. It's a great moment to share

24:06awareness with employee. The reason why you've got a 2% increase is because you're paid at the full

24:12market value of your job and you're doing a great job. That means you're ready for the next step.

24:17And that's the part that's missing that next step. So you connect compensation to something you call

24:23career architecture. If a company has never built a clear architecture, showing employees how jobs,

24:30skills, responsibilities, and pay progress, where should leadership start? Well, leadership needs to

24:36start with what is their own pay philosophy. Do they want to pay competitively? Do they want to

24:43pay more than competitively? Do they want to pay less than market? Do they want to do more on the

24:49variable pay side, higher than market, and less on the base pay? All those issues are important

24:54to determine what type of a career development architecture, a structure that you're going to

25:01have in your organization. Do you want to keep people retained in their existing jobs? Do you

25:08want stability for a fairly long term? Do you not see a lot of promotional opportunities in your company

25:14over the next few years? So there needs to be conversation and discussion first about what

25:20the organization's thoughts and feelings are about what type of career development will work best in

25:26their organization. Do you believe in laterally training people by getting them into other

25:32departments to grow different skill sets? Is that what works within your organization? Is instead of

25:38continuing to move upwards, that you need to move laterally to learn new skills? Like for example,

25:45a lot of CEOs of companies started in one department in their career. They moved to different departments

25:51to understand the business as a whole over time. So is that the kind of company you're operating?

25:57So it begins with that kind of discussion. And as a consultant in compensation and implementing,

26:04I actually implement career architecture systems. Like I was talking about where there's a financial

26:09analyst, one, two, three, four, and what do they actually mean? But it starts with a conversation about

26:16customizing it to the specific organization. What is your pay philosophy? How do you expect

26:23individuals to successfully develop within your organization? And once that's understood,

26:30then we can customize and create the kind of career paths that are going to mean greater pay for

26:35employees. But your question was, how do they start? It starts with an internal discussion,

26:40which I help facilitate to understand what's going to work within your organization.

26:45Do you expect people to wear multiple hats in your organization? Okay. If they're wearing

26:51multiple hats, they're getting multiple skill sets. So what does that mean from a career development

26:56perspective? Where did they go? Do you look from the outside to bring in a lot of new blood into

27:03your

27:04group? Or do you want to grow people internally? Different companies have different thoughts on this.

27:08So that's what needs to be understood first. So we're entering a world where employees can

27:14obtain increasingly sophisticated salary information from the internet and AI. What happens when employees

27:20know more about external compensation data than some of their managers do? And how should companies

27:26prepare for those conversations? Well, the first thing is, is that it is true that with advances in

27:32technology that employees have a lot more access to data out in the marketplace. But unfortunately,

27:41it's usually free data and it's employee reported data rather than employer reporter data. So I don't

27:49want to get too technical here. But the point I'm trying to make here is, is that you have to

27:53take

27:54employees who are looking out for free information on compensation have to take it with a grain of salt

28:00in terms of what they are. They may, they're not sophisticated in understanding that they may

28:07oftentimes be looking at a job title that's similar to theirs, but it's really not the same content,

28:12the same exact job. There are so many different factors. Geographic, your company will compare

28:18yourself to different industries and to specific industries. And a lot of this information is not

28:25sophisticated enough online that they see. It's just a bottom line number. And there can be a lot

28:31of variation. Companies know this. They use employer reported data as opposed to employee reported data,

28:39which you're seeing on the outside. They pay for this information. The point of it is, is that that

28:45information needs to become much more transparent to the internal managers, not kept in a black box,

28:52as we were talking about earlier, in human resources, where no one can benefit from what those numbers

28:59say, and use human resources to get those managers trained on the realities of the marketplace so they

29:08can have not a defensive conversation when employees come in with the numbers that they have, but to be able

29:14to articulate the numbers that the company has and compare it to them and to point out where there are

29:20differences and see where they go from there. So that's the other aspect of transparency. Yes,

29:26employees out there or candidates for jobs can see the basics out there, but it's not fine-tuned and it's

29:32not the kind of information that is specific to the organization that they're applying to. And there's a whole

29:39method of analyzing market data that needs to be simplified and shared with managers within the

29:47organization internally so they can have the proper conversation with the employee. So looking ahead

29:52a few years from now, three to five, let's say, what changes in pay transparency, AI, remote work,

29:59or employee expectations do you think will catch the greatest number of business leaders unprepared?

30:05Well, I think, first of all, probably about 40% of the states have pay transparency laws,

30:11but it's growing all the time. So that's going to continue to grow. And what that means is while the

30:19pay transparency laws are posting pay ranges for all jobs so everyone can see not what individuals are

30:25making, but just what the job in general making this broad range, this is going to be, this is

30:31going to continue to grow. So that is going to be more and more of a instigator for companies to

30:39make

30:39sure that they've got their internal house in order in terms of how they pay individuals. There's a lot

30:45of work that goes on behind the scenes in how to pay individuals. It's not cut and dry, but that

30:50is

30:51going to be more and more of an impetus. And as we were just discussing, AI tools are going to

30:57get more

30:58and more sophisticated. And the data that employees see out there is going to get better and better. I don't

31:04think it's out there right now, because again, it's just free data and it's not giving them specifics

31:09that they need. So employees are going to become more and more educated on specifics of compensation.

31:17And in this age of disclosure, this is, it's going to be coming more and more of an issue for

31:22companies.

31:23So they need to look internally. And a lot of companies are already doing this, looking internally

31:28over the next three years, to make sure that they've got their house really in order in terms of competitive

31:35compensation in general, and from an internal equity perspective. Because as you said earlier, Mason,

31:42you make decisions at one time that seem to make sense for the organization. But over time, they pile up,

31:48they accumulate, and they start to conflict with one another. So this is an ideal opportunity,

31:53as all these changes are going on in compensation transparency, to use that as an impetus to,

32:01and again, a lot of companies are, to get your own house in order, so that you can execute on

32:07this

32:07culture of pay transparency. So if there's a CEO listening, and he or she agrees that compensation

32:14needs to become more transparent, but they don't want to create chaos by suddenly opening everything up,

32:19what are maybe the first couple steps that you'd recommend that they take to begin moving from

32:26the black box towards the kind of career compensation system that you've described in your book?

32:32Well, the first, and a lot of CEOs are aware of this. They're very much awareness. And the first step

32:37is, as I said, at the very, this is a great way to kind of bring it all back home

32:41as part of our

32:42conversation. But, but the, the, the, the, the first step of all is to understand that you have

32:50to get, you have to disassociate, associate yourself from this concept out there that this is all about

33:01showing everybody's pay and posting pay ranges throughout the organization. So getting rid of

33:08that tactical concept and thinking, first of all, we have to look at our own compensation philosophy,

33:13as we were talking about earlier, we have to look at our pay strange, our pay structures. Are they

33:19working? Are they delivering equity and where people fall? That's all behind the scenes work

33:25so that you can make the reality of transparency of compensation more real. You've got to get your

33:32internal house in order. And that's what, again, a lot of companies are doing. So that's the first

33:36stuff. And understanding that it's, it's not pay transparency is not what they're thinking it is.

33:42So if people want to know more about you, the work you do and your book, what are the best

33:47ways for

33:47them to connect? Well, certainly I have my website, which is a great place. And both of my books are

33:52available out there on my website as long, as well as a lot of articles about compensation,

33:57transparency, www.hrcompensationconsulting.com. I'm on LinkedIn and my books are available,

34:04the transparency of compensation, which is available on Amazon. And this is great because

34:12it walks through the foundation of just what we scratched the surface on today during our

34:17conversation. I appreciate you sharing that, Scott. Thank you so much for your time. And before we wrap

34:22up, I want to leave people listening with one practical next step. If you want less turnover,

34:27less workplace drama, and more discretionary effort from your team, I want to invite you to apply for the

34:32Workforce Alchemy Challenge at workforcealchemy.com, where you can receive expert training and have

34:37the opportunity to qualify for up to a thousand dollars in tools that you can actually use.

34:42We're so glad you joined us today. And I hope that everyone watching and listening learned as much

34:46as I did. And Scott, I really appreciate having you. Thank you.

Why Good Employees Leave: Pay Transparency & Retention Mistakes CEOs Make | Scott Trumpolt

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