- 21 hours ago
What happens when a leader is hit by devastating personal loss, but the business still needs decisions, direction, and stability?
Steven Ferrara spent 25 years as CEO of a financial services firm, helping build a small family insurance business into a much larger organization. Then his 23-year-old son, Christopher, died in a car accident. Later, Steven also lost his wife, Allie.
In this episode of The Workforce Alchemy Show, Steven joins Mason Duchatschek for a deeply personal conversation about leadership, grief, resilience, delegation, responsibility, and how to keep functioning when your emotional capacity is stretched to its limits.
One of Steven’s biggest leadership lessons came long before tragedy entered his life:
You cannot scale a business if you refuse to let go of control.
Steven explains why growth required him to hire capable people, delegate meaningful responsibility, and give those people enough authority to make decisions without constantly coming back to him for approval.
That leadership philosophy became critical after Christopher died.
Steven knew grief was affecting his judgment. Instead of pretending he could operate normally, he leaned on trusted leaders inside the company and gave them broader authority to keep the organization moving while he focused on his family and his own ability to function.
That raises an important question for CEOs, business owners, executives, HR leaders, and managers:
What should a leader do when personal grief collides with professional responsibility?
Steven and Mason also explore how to support employees and coworkers who are grieving without making things worse.
Steven’s advice is simple:
You do not have to fix them.
You do not always need to give advice.
Sometimes the most valuable thing you can do is listen, be present, offer practical help, and ask what kind of support they actually need.
He also explains why excessive sympathy can sometimes create another emotional burden and why understanding may be more helpful than searching for the perfect words.
The conversation includes practical ways leaders can support grieving employees:
• Give them time
• Cover responsibilities
• Reduce unnecessary pressure
• Reassure them that work will be handled
• Ask what kind of support would actually help
• Be present without trying to solve their grief
Steven also addresses another response to grief that can look productive from the outside: throwing yourself completely into work.
Busyness may provide temporary distraction, but unresolved grief still has to be faced.
For Steven, journaling became one of the most important tools in that process.
What began as a private way to process anger, sadness, confusion, and love eventually became the foundation for his book, Grief to Gratitude: Embracing the Inner Pathway to Healing and Peace.
Steven Ferrara spent 25 years as CEO of a financial services firm, helping build a small family insurance business into a much larger organization. Then his 23-year-old son, Christopher, died in a car accident. Later, Steven also lost his wife, Allie.
In this episode of The Workforce Alchemy Show, Steven joins Mason Duchatschek for a deeply personal conversation about leadership, grief, resilience, delegation, responsibility, and how to keep functioning when your emotional capacity is stretched to its limits.
One of Steven’s biggest leadership lessons came long before tragedy entered his life:
You cannot scale a business if you refuse to let go of control.
Steven explains why growth required him to hire capable people, delegate meaningful responsibility, and give those people enough authority to make decisions without constantly coming back to him for approval.
That leadership philosophy became critical after Christopher died.
Steven knew grief was affecting his judgment. Instead of pretending he could operate normally, he leaned on trusted leaders inside the company and gave them broader authority to keep the organization moving while he focused on his family and his own ability to function.
That raises an important question for CEOs, business owners, executives, HR leaders, and managers:
What should a leader do when personal grief collides with professional responsibility?
Steven and Mason also explore how to support employees and coworkers who are grieving without making things worse.
Steven’s advice is simple:
You do not have to fix them.
You do not always need to give advice.
Sometimes the most valuable thing you can do is listen, be present, offer practical help, and ask what kind of support they actually need.
He also explains why excessive sympathy can sometimes create another emotional burden and why understanding may be more helpful than searching for the perfect words.
The conversation includes practical ways leaders can support grieving employees:
• Give them time
• Cover responsibilities
• Reduce unnecessary pressure
• Reassure them that work will be handled
• Ask what kind of support would actually help
• Be present without trying to solve their grief
Steven also addresses another response to grief that can look productive from the outside: throwing yourself completely into work.
Busyness may provide temporary distraction, but unresolved grief still has to be faced.
For Steven, journaling became one of the most important tools in that process.
What began as a private way to process anger, sadness, confusion, and love eventually became the foundation for his book, Grief to Gratitude: Embracing the Inner Pathway to Healing and Peace.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:05Welcome to the Mason Duke of Tech Show. And before we jump in, this episode is brought
00:10to you by WorkforceAlchemy.com, the place where business owners and executives go to
00:16uncover and address profit leaks hidden in their everyday operations. Today's guest is
00:21Stephen Ferrara, author of Grief to Gratitude, Embracing the Inner Pathway to Healing and
00:27Peace. Stephen spent 25 years as CEO of a financial services firm, then faced the devastating loss
00:34of his 23-year-old son, Christopher, and later his wife, Allie. In this conversation, we'll explore
00:39how leaders can keep going when life breaks their heart. We'll talk about how to make decisions when
00:44emotions are overwhelming and how to support grieving employees without making things worse
00:49and how pain can reshape your understanding of success, legacy, resilience, and what really
00:55matters. Stephen, thanks for being here. Welcome to the show.
00:58Thank you, Mason. I look forward to our time together.
01:01Before we talk about grief, I want to start with leadership. You built a small family insurance
01:07business into a large financial services firm and served as CEO for 25 years. What did running a
01:13company teach you about pressure, responsibility, and the inner life of a leader?
01:18Yeah, that's a good question. You know, as you said, my dad was a musician for most of his life,
01:23and then he started selling life insurance on the side to make a few extra bucks because you can't
01:28make a whole lot of money in music. And I actually am a drummer, and I realized early on that's
01:34not
01:34the way I'm going to make money. So I actually followed him into selling life insurance, cold
01:38canvassing, cold calling. And that was in the early 70s, 1974. Came the late 70s, there was this big wave
01:46in the financial services business. Both the insurance and the investment side started to come together,
01:51and they wanted to build firms. And that's what I did. Through the 80s, I rode that very good wave,
01:5790s through the 2000s, and the firm, you know, grew very large. And what I learned early on,
02:04a number of things about leadership is firstly, you need to be willing to let go of control if you
02:12want
02:12to scale your firm. I think we all know one of the most important things is to attract quality people.
02:18And I was very fortunate early on to find one or two people that I was able to delegate a
02:24lot of
02:24responsibilities to. And as I was able to offload some of the day-to-day things, I was able to
02:30continue to rise in my abilities and my skill sets to be more of a leader, more of a visionary,
02:36more of a spokesperson for the firm, more of someone that attracted quality people to the firm.
02:42You know, delegating, being willing to relinquish control, not thinking that you're the only one
02:48that can do it a certain way. And if it doesn't get done your way, it won't get done. I
02:53found that
02:53people do things so much better than me when given the authority, when they're empowered. And that was
03:01a very big thing was to empower people and let them know that they have authority to move forward,
03:07make decisions, make choices. And in fact, I was always wanting to tell them, just take it as far
03:12as you possibly can. And if you just hit the wall and you can't go any further, then and only
03:17then
03:18should you come to me. Don't be coming to me when you're just halfway there and you still may think
03:23you know a little bit more of what to do. Just keep doing it. And so, you know, empowering people,
03:28one of the other important things, it's always about people, by the way. People, you know,
03:32processes, strategies are important. No question about it, having a vision, but people are what
03:38business is about. You know, we are, you know, I don't care if you're the biggest corporation in
03:43the world, it's made up of people. And so what I found is that I would always search for people's,
03:51what I called unique ability. You know, people have all different levels of competence, you know,
03:56and some things like for me working with my hands, I'm totally incompetent. There's other things
04:02that I might say that I'm competent at. And there's some things that I'd even say that I'm
04:07excellent at. And those are things that I enjoy doing, but they may not give me the total fulfillment
04:12at the end of the day. But unique ability is something that I think we only have a couple of
04:19those really unique abilities. And if we can find them within ourself firstly, and then find them
04:25within other people, we can truly help develop them into their unique abilities. And that's where
04:31people really shine. That's where they get into the zone. That's where they love coming to work
04:36every day because they're fulfilled. They're energized. They're not stressed by their work.
04:42And if you can find that kind of, you know, just sweet spot for people, it's amazing how much people
04:49can do and how much they love what they do. One of the things that really jumps out at me
04:53is how you
04:54talk about giving people authority. I'm sure there's people listening right now wishing they work for
04:59someone who recognizes what you just said. I have been in positions before where I might be
05:04responsible for an outcome, but I didn't have the authority. This was an early career professional
05:09back in the day. So I always felt like, look, give me whatever objective you want to give me.
05:15And I'll take responsibility for accomplishing that objective. But I need the authority that equals
05:19that responsibility. Don't come to me and say, hey, you're responsible for this, but I want you to do
05:24it this way, this way, this way, this way, this way, this way, this way. Because if I do it
05:27that way
05:27and it doesn't work out, I'm the scapegoat. And it's a terrible position to be in because I'm the
05:34scapegoat when it doesn't work. Well, you didn't do it the way I said. I did it exactly the way
05:39you
05:39said exactly everything to the T, the way you said, I'm the scapegoat. And if I see a better way
05:46or know
05:47what is necessary to achieve the outcome and I deviate from that and I can't follow directions,
05:54I'm not a team player, I'm not trustworthy. And that's a terrible position to ask anybody who has
05:59talent, ambition, drive, and a sense of personal responsibility. It's a terrible position to put
06:04them in. So I love that you talked about giving people authority commensurate with that responsibility.
06:09And I wish more people would do that if they're in leadership roles. And you said a mouthful when
06:14you said delegating, that's hard to do. It's easier said than done because, but if you can give the
06:19right people, the authority and the responsibility, that can be done. But missing any of those
06:25ingredients makes for a tough day or week or month or quarter. On a personal level, when your son
06:34Christopher passed, you've said that your world shattered and understandably so. For a CEO or
06:41executive who was hit by a personal crisis, but still has people depending on them, what should
06:45they do in the first few days when they just find it almost impossible to think clearly?
06:49Yeah. Well, you know, I was surrounded by an inner circle of really good quality people in my
06:56business and we were always there for each other. In fact, I was many times accused of running my
07:03business too much like a family, but it was all I really knew. And I treated everyone like family
07:10and they treated me like family. When my son died, it was right before the holidays, right before
07:16Christmas, December 18th, he died and it was in a car accident and he was already in the business.
07:22He had been in my business for about a year. He was training to be an advisor. So one of
07:27the things
07:28that helped is that everyone in my firm knew Christopher. They all had a relationship with him.
07:34Christopher was just a very charismatic, warm individual. Everyone loved Christopher and not
07:42because he was the CEO's son. I mean, he was his own individual person. He was with his own team,
07:46his own group, and everyone just loved him. So what happened is really the entire firm was grieving
07:53when Christopher died. With it being the holidays, we were fortunate. I mean, even though it's a busy
07:59time because it's the end of the year, we all came together. I mean, I was at my house the
08:05day
08:05after and they could not do enough for me to the best that I could. And it wasn't easy. I
08:12spoke with
08:12my key people. I just told them, you have full authority. You do what you see fit. I'm not in
08:19the mindset to be able to be dealt with for any business issues. My family is most important. I have
08:25two daughters. I have a wife. I've got to move my family through this. I've got to move myself through
08:29this. My world was completely shattered and upside down, but I still had the clarity to know I have
08:35responsibility to these 130 people. I'm not just going to run away from them or hide for the next
08:41six months because of my own self-interest or whatever. I have responsibility. So I stayed
08:49connected, but I gave more authority to the key people to know that they have the ability,
08:56full authority, and my full approval to make decisions as they see fit. Nobody was going to
09:02make decisions that would put us out of business. So I wasn't worried about that. And if they made a
09:06mistake that cost us a few thousand dollars, what are you going to do? It's worth the feeling of
09:12comfort to know that I don't have to be thinking about this every day. I can wake up every day.
09:16I need to focus on my family. I need to focus on myself. I need to focus on how do
09:21you handle this
09:23unimaginable situation where grief came out in me in the form of sadness, obviously, and lonesomeness.
09:31I mean, Christopher was literally my best friend. We can almost end each other's sentences. And
09:35working for me, we spent an inordinate amount of time together. And every night when he came home,
09:40he debriefed me on the whole day. We just loved so much our relationship. And so I lost my best
09:47friend in addition to everything else. But, you know, life had to go on. And I had to accept that
09:55this is what occurred. I realized pretty early on, I just can't push back against life and say,
10:00well, you know, how did this happen? I mean, I did. I used to, I was a runner and I
10:05used to run
10:05through the long country roads where we lived. And it was in the middle of winter, scream at the top
10:10of my lungs at whoever. It was usually God or whatever I perceive as God or the universe.
10:16How can you do this? You took a 23-year-old man who was due to get married. He was
10:22doing wonderful
10:23in business. He was at the top of his game. It made no sense. And I was just so confused,
10:28so angry.
10:30You know, so for the first couple of months, I just needed to process and express some of that anger
10:34and screaming it out on the streets of where I used to live. And also what I did, and it's
10:41kind
10:41of where my book emerged from, is I just realized I needed to express myself and I began to journal.
10:47And I did that every single day, sometimes two or three times a day, literally for the next 15 years.
10:53And that's where the book emerged from is the journals. I never intended to write a book. I just
10:57had a bookshelf of journals. And I happened to decide to look back at them a few years ago after
11:02I sold
11:02my business and had some time on my hands. And I realized, man, this is a documentary of my journey.
11:10And as I took excerpts out of it, I realized that these are things that may be able to help
11:16others.
11:16And then I met with an editor and we worked together for probably a year and a half, two years,
11:20and she turned it into a book-worthy manuscript. So in terms of the business, though, to your question,
11:26it was just empowering people even more and giving them the assurance that I'm behind them.
11:33Whatever their decision is, even if it's a mistake, it's okay. It's better than coming to me.
11:38You know, could very well be giving you bad decisions just because of my mindset at that time.
11:44And the business was affected for sure. It had a bit of a lull, but I did have, and again,
11:51this is where I was so fortunate. There were some real leaders in the firm that took it upon
11:57themselves that they were going to carry the business, so to speak, on their back. And they
12:02were going to do everything they could to make sure that this business was going to continue to
12:06move forward every day and continue to grow. Let me in here for a second because you've unwrapped a lot.
12:15And I think that, first of all, thank you for sharing that. It's like a gut punch for me to
12:21hear your story and you're expressing what you went through and what you're going through and what
12:26your thoughts were and what your emotions were and how you felt. And there are executives and business
12:31owners, managers who are watching and listening today who have or will work with others who go
12:38through some degree of grief for one reason or another. Someone gets a cancer diagnosis, someone
12:42passes away, someone has a car accident. I mean, it could be someone goes through a divorce. I mean,
12:46there's a whole bunch of traumatic things that can cause deep emotional distress, which makes work
12:52not a priority. And in the big scope of things, it probably shouldn't be. People first. And one of
12:58the challenges that I have, and I suspect people watching and listening probably have to, and they may
13:03be asking themselves because I'm asking myself, if I found myself in a position like that and I was around
13:08someone who was in pain and suffering and needed help, whether it's a co, it could be a coworker,
13:12it could be a friend. My instincts are to want to help. My fear is that I don't know how
13:19to do that.
13:20And although my intentions are pure, I might do more damage than good if I open my mouth at the
13:26wrong
13:26time or the wrong words come out or both. And my question to you is what guidance do you have
13:33having been through that, that you can give to us so that we kind of know the do's and the
13:38don'ts,
13:39whether it's workplace peers or whether it's family or whether it's friends? What are some of the best
13:44ways to navigate or to be helpful? And what are some of the things to avoid in your opinion?
13:50You don't have to provide advice. You don't need to fix them. You need to listen. And in fact,
13:55listening is maybe the most important thing that we can do if we're dealing with someone that's deep
14:01in grief. Let them express, let them cry. Don't get worried that they're going to jump out the
14:06window. You know, sometimes we come from fear and frankly, our society does come from fear.
14:12And so many of the kind of things that are done in our society are based on individual people's fear,
14:18you know, and we don't have to fear most, most of the time that someone's going to, you know,
14:24jump out the window because they're sad. They're going to feel that sadness. There's no question.
14:28And if you can be there for them, assure them that you're there to be there, to support them.
14:34What I'm hearing you say is if I'm, let's say that I worked with you when this happened,
14:38the best thing would have been to say, Hey, I'm here for you. What can I do to support you?
14:42And
14:43ask how I can best support you? Because like you said, you would want someone to talk to you.
14:48Your wife would have wanted more space. So by asking someone who's going through grief,
14:52what's the best way I can support you? You can find out whether they need conversation
14:56or someone to listen or whether they need space. I also hear you saying things like
15:01encourage them to journal so they can get their thoughts down and get clarity of thought and let
15:05them know that you're there for them. At what point, again, I'm going to put myself in that
15:09situation. Let's just say I worked with you at that point because I wouldn't want you to feel
15:14that I didn't care or I was indifferent because I wasn't talking to you. I wouldn't know what to say
15:19or when to say it, what's appropriate, what isn't. So I would probably be more inclined not to say
15:23anything unless you said something to me. I would be there and let you know, Hey, I'm here anytime
15:28you need me. But what advice do you have for those? Because that's an awkward situation because
15:33we want to help. Like that one of, one of my best friends passed away. It's coming up on his
15:38third
15:39year, third year. But he was cycling a fraternity brother, a guy I've known since college, one of my
15:44best friends. And he was cycling in Colorado and went for a ride with his twin brother. And he said,
15:49Hey, see you tomorrow. And they never did. He got hit by a car and hit and run. That was
15:54it.
15:54I'm still close to his whole family and his twin brother is a good buddy of mine too. And I
16:00miss
16:00him. Don't always know what to say. Well, you know, and what I would just say is we don't have
16:06to say
16:07anything. Some of the most impactful times when, you know, when someone would meet me, you know,
16:13and for the first time, having found out that my son died, they didn't say the standard, you know,
16:18my thoughts and, you know, prayers and, and, and, and all of that's fine. And I do think that
16:23people are coming from their best possible place, but many times, yeah, of course. Yeah,
16:27absolutely. But many times what I found is that it was more something they needed to do. And,
16:34and at times, and I hate to say this, but it's true. I'd almost feel like the burden was then
16:39put
16:39on my shoulders when they say, Oh, I feel so sorry for you. And they're giving me too much sympathy.
16:44I didn't need sympathy. I needed, that's not something I would have known. That's a, that's,
16:49that's a, I would never have guessed that. Yeah. Like this is why I value this conversation
16:54because I assure you there are people out there working with others. Like I said,
16:57it could be a coworker or a friend who's going through a divorce or someone who's lost a child
17:01or someone who's had some financial devastating news, or, I mean, it could be a whole bunch of
17:07different things that could really bring people into pain. And like you said, if you, if you believe
17:12that people are the core of your business, yes, which I do, then you got to take care of your
17:17people, people first. And when you don't know how to handle awkward situations, you don't do it.
17:22And I guess, I guess not doing anything is better than doing something wrong, but not by a lie.
17:28You know what I think I would say Mason is the intention of what you do. Something is really
17:34critical in, in this situation, maybe more than any, you know, if you're coming from love,
17:40which is where I think many people try to come from to the best of their ability, you know,
17:45and love is a deeper feeling, you know, some of the superficial kind of reactive things that we
17:50all say, even in our day to day. And certainly when someone passes away, it's just a standard kind
17:56of thing. But if you come from your deeper place and you truly, you know, are coming from your highest
18:02place, sometimes saying nothing is the best thing. And just giving them a warm, loving hug,
18:08just letting them know I'm here for you in whatever way I can help. Some of the things that I
18:15appreciated more than anything, certainly in the early days was people, you know, we've had so much
18:20food and stuff delivered to the house. I mean, it was great because you're not going to be cooking
18:25during those first couple of weeks. You're not going to be doing much of your routines. And it was
18:29really nice that people were so thoughtful to send us a dinner, to send us whatever it might be,
18:35you know, in helping us with even day to day. I'm amazed at the wonderfulness of some people.
18:40They'd come over and they would do our laundry. You know, it's sometimes doing an act that is so
18:47wonderful as opposed to anything that can be said. But certainly people that were there for you,
18:54you knew that they were there for you and maybe listened more than anything. And also maybe ask a
19:00question or two, what can I do to help and give them some suggestions? Cause everybody's head is
19:05in a blur at that point. And people are going to just naturally say, don't worry about it. But can
19:10I, can I get, can I take you close to the cleaners? Can I, you know, just day to day
19:15stuff is so
19:16helpful. Can I, you know, how about if I send my cleaning? What about coworkers? What about if it's
19:21someone that you're working with? I guess you could do things on a personal level outside of work,
19:25but what's the best way to interact at work with someone like that? That's going through
19:28something horrible. Yeah. Well, you know, as the CEO of the firm, I mean, I had the authority and
19:33always did the best I could with it to help. I've had people that lost, you know, loved ones,
19:39you know, and if it's a father or a mother, I mean, that's bad enough, but it's more in the
19:43natural
19:44scheme of things, but you still give them the time. Some people need a day, a week, whatever it
19:49might be. You give them a chance to grieve. I would always go to the family's services to show my
19:56support and talk with the other family members and what could I do to help them? Because sometimes
20:02that individual feels they can't say anything or they might feel intimidated or whatever the case
20:07may be. So I would talk to other family members. What can I do to help them? Where do you
20:11think
20:12they really can use any help? Certainly giving them time with a reason to be able to take the time.
20:19You do what you need to do for your family. Everything will be covered here. We'll put a team on
20:23it.
20:23You don't think about it and don't worry about it and check in with me in a week or so
20:27and let me
20:28know how you're doing. You know, and just kind of give them that assurance, give them that really
20:34just feeling that you're there for them no matter what. And as I say, in my position as a CEO,
20:40I mean,
20:40that came with a lot of value, but even as a coworker, if you're just, you know, working on the
20:46next desk
20:46next to them, there's so many things that you can do, picking up, you know, whatever slack that their
20:52work won't be able to be done and assure them I will be on it for you. Don't you even
20:57think about
20:58it? If anything were to, you know, completely be out of left field that I can't handle, I would text
21:04you to see if you could pick up the phone. But except for that, I will handle everything and
21:10assure them of that because, you know, a lot of people feel that, you know, if they're not there,
21:15they're going to come back to a desk full of stuff. I'm going to be buried and they feel they've
21:18got to
21:18get back to work sooner or they just feel pressure that's unnecessary. What you want people to be
21:23able to do is give their undivided attention to themselves and their family's wellbeing and give
21:30them an environment, so to speak, that they can feel comfortable, that they can move forward and
21:36not be worrying about all this other stuff. I don't know if that helps. It does. And that seems very
21:42healthy to me. However, I could also imagine without too much effort, someone responding
21:48who's going through grief in the exact opposite way by throwing themselves into their work even more
21:53and trying to do everything or too much, just if nothing more to distract or take their mind off it
21:58as someone who is leading or a coworker with someone in that position. What advice or guidance
22:03might you offer? I mean, from my own personal experience, that is not a healthy way to deal with
22:08it. You can immerse yourself into all kinds of busyness and that's all fine if necessary initially,
22:14but at some point you've got to deal with the grief. Otherwise you'll be in it for a very
22:20unnecessary long period of time because all you're doing is burying it, denying it, just pushing it
22:27down, suppressing it. None of that is good in the long run. In the short run, you do whatever you
22:33need
22:33to do. But in the long run, it's got to be faced. It's got to be expressed and maybe not
22:39with a
22:39counselor or a psychiatrist. It could just be to your journal. It could just be to your brother.
22:44It could just be in whatever way. This needs to be reconciled in some way, shape or form.
22:51One of the big things that helped me, and it's just the way I've always been. I've been a voracious
22:56reader my whole life. I just found books that helped me. They weren't the classic books like
23:04The Five Steps of Grief or whatever the case may be. They were much more, based on my background,
23:08much more spiritually oriented books where spiritual principles were discussed. The authors
23:15would talk about life and death in a, I guess, clear way, understanding that this is a journey that
23:23we're on, this human experience is a part of it, and we continue on. Just that assurance that this
23:29is not the end and there is an ongoing journey made me feel so much better that my 23-year
23:35-old son
23:35wasn't here in his human experience for 23 years and then gone. There must be a continuing journey.
23:41I don't know where it goes or where you go or what you do, but to know that there must
23:47be an
23:47ongoing journey opened up a door for me to be able to know that I could have an ongoing and
23:54even a
23:54growing relationship with my son, not in a physical way. I couldn't give him a hug. I couldn't talk to
24:00him over a cup of coffee, but through journaling, through meditating, which is another thing I did,
24:04and it's another really important point I'd suggest to people. Very few people give themselves this kind
24:09of time. Just overstimulate it, and when you go through a major crisis, the last thing you need
24:16is the stimulation of the negativity of the news or social media and all the things that we deal with
24:23on a day-to-day basis that, you know, if you're not in a crisis, well, you can handle it.
24:28You got a certain
24:28amount of ability to handle. Not that I do it, you know, for me, I don't listen to the news
24:33and I stay pretty much
24:34away from social media, but my point is that you need to find some time for yourself. You need to
24:40find silence. I don't care if it's five or 10 minutes in the morning or five or 10 minutes at
24:44night. If you're going through a major crisis, you got to find time to cool your jets and just allow
24:51yourself some peace because that's when you get more in touch with the deeper feelings, and it's not
24:57all just the superficial stuff that stimulation and a lot of conversation may get you into. So for me,
25:04I've been a meditator, you know, I grew up in the 50s, 60s, 60s was when meditation, TM in particular
25:10was popular. I took a class when I was 17 and I've been a meditator my whole life. So I
25:15had some of
25:15these tools, but I can tell you, even having all the tools I had, those tools all went out the
25:20window
25:20in the beginning. But I eventually came back to them and I used them as the tools that they were,
25:27that were a tremendous help. It's one of the things I appreciate the way you described your book
25:31and what inspired your book. I'm a huge fan of Alex Armosi. He's got a lot of videos and books
25:36on the internet. I've read, I guess, three of his books, maybe four, a fourth of them. Anyway,
25:40I find him to be full of wisdom. And one of the things he talks about is be descriptive instead
25:47of prescriptive. And I love the way how you talk about what inspired your book. Like, hey,
25:51here's what I went through. Here's what I learned. Here's what I experienced. And here are the outcomes.
25:55And it's raw. It's authentic. It's real. You're not telling other people what to do or how to do
26:01it. You're just saying that here, this was my path. This was my journey. This is cause and effect.
26:06And I hope that you can learn something. That's very descriptive. And he takes that approach towards
26:10business. And I think in this case, you're taking it towards life and business, which I appreciate.
26:15You're not sitting here telling people, go do this, go do that. And saying, hey,
26:18these are some options for you. Here's what served me well. And I know that a lot of executives
26:23and type A personalities, they want to control everything. And grief's not one of those things
26:28that you can control. And one of the things you've mentioned several times was how important
26:33journaling was to you. Could you maybe share a specific moment from your journaling where
26:37something shifted for you and what lesson that a leader could apply from that moment?
26:42Yeah. You know, one of the early shifts, and there was so many that I had no idea until I
26:48read back
26:48my journals and, you know, I put them all in the book and it really does create that pathway. But
26:53one of
26:53the early mind shifts, I was journaling one day and, you know, it was probably a few months
27:00after my son Christopher died. And I was still very much into focusing on myself and certainly my
27:06family. But a lot of it was, you know, how I felt. And naturally so. I mean, that's what we
27:12think
27:13about most of the time is how we feel. But it dawned on me, and it was because I think
27:17I use this
27:18principle in business often is, you know, I'm going to look at this experience from Christopher's side.
27:24And it was like a light bulb went on in my head. Like, I can look at this from my
27:28son's side of
27:30this experience. This is Christopher's journey. You know, this is Christopher's, you know, I guess
27:36destiny. By that point, I was accepting that life doesn't make mistakes. So it couldn't have been a
27:42mistake. It had to be something that was destined for whatever the reason. I'll never know why. The
27:47question why never gets answered. But what I understood is that if I look at this from
27:52Christopher's side, it changed everything to the point where instead of now thinking about what
27:58could have been, you know, he could have been my partner. He could have, I could have been a
28:03grandfather to his children. I could have, could have, should have, would have. I began to think about
28:07what can be in our ongoing relationship on his ongoing journey. I realized that I could have an
28:14ongoing and a growing relationship with him. Much of which for me was through the journaling,
28:20as well as through finding the quiet times where I could feel his presence. I eventually realized that
28:25other than him physically not being here, and that's huge. I mean, I can't understate obviously
28:32how huge it is when someone has gone from their human experience. But what I did realize is that the
28:37love I feel for my son, and I would say that out of every human being that I've ever had
28:43a relationship
28:44with in my life, Christopher is who I probably have as close to an unconditional loving relationship.
28:51We just accept each other. And what I realize is that that love can continue because the love I feel
28:58is the love I share with him. It's not, you know, love is not about getting something. We get confused
29:03with that at times. Like, you know, you want your wife to love your kids to love your mother. It's
29:08about the love we share with them. That's the only love we feel. We don't feel their love. We feel
29:12our
29:12love. And when I started to understand that even more so in this situation, I realized that I can
29:18still share the same amount of love that I've always had for him. I can still have that wonderful
29:23feeling of love and support of my son on his ongoing and growing journey, wherever it took him.
29:30I don't know, but I love and support him as his father, wherever it takes him. And ultimately,
29:36this shift of looking at it from his side took me to a point where I began, and I saw
29:42this in my
29:42journal, maybe a year and maybe two years in every journal, I just end it with love forever and
29:48eternity, dad. And about two years in, I started to see myself saying love forever and eternity,
29:54dad and your spiritual partner. And as I began to see my son as my spiritual partner, in addition to
30:02being my son, I was able to feel that the two of us are walking together, helping each other. He's
30:08not in his human experience anymore, and I am. But spiritually, in our essence, we're still walking
30:14together and he is my spiritual partner. How fortunate am I to have had a son for 23 years
30:21that I now know is on the other side, and he's my spiritual partner. So that's where the gratitude
30:27began to come in. Not gratitude that he died, but gratitude for the experience and all the things
30:33that I was learning and realizing that, you know, he was helping me get more in touch with my
30:39spiritual essence. He was the window, so to speak, to my spiritual essence, because that was the only
30:44dimension, so to speak, that I could have a relationship with him on anymore.
30:47But the first shift to your question was looking at it from his side of the journey.
30:53Okay. So if, first of all, thank you. I was very, very excited to, because this topic is
31:00outside of the comfort zone for me, probably for a lot of people, because it's just not,
31:05it's a necessary part of life and business and friendships and family, but not an easy part
31:13sometimes. And there's not, I guess maybe your book might shed some light on this, but no roadmap
31:20on how to easily navigate all these variables. If people want to learn more about you, your work,
31:25your book, what are the best ways for them to find your book and learn more about you and your
31:29journey and hopefully get peace and guidance in their own path?
31:32Yeah. Thank you, Mason. Easiest way is my website is really easy. It's my name,
31:39StephenFerrara.com. So it's Stephen with a V and then it's F-E-R-R-A-R-A.com. From
31:46there,
31:47you'll see the website. Obviously, I've got interviews on there and various other clips,
31:52excuse me, but also Instagram, Facebook, Substack can all be gotten right from the website. That's
31:57the easiest way. And you could also, if someone was interested to buy the book, get, you know,
32:01right to Amazon from there and purchase the book.
32:03Thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and for sharing both. It's been a pleasure visiting
32:09with you today. Thank you. Thank you, Mason.