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00:00How much unreleased Kiss stuff is in the vault?
00:02There's a lot. I listen back to it today.
00:04I go, you know, these guys that wore more makeup and higher heels than your mommy ever did,
00:09they weren't fooling around.
00:11Rock, metal, frog, and everything in between.
00:15Welcome to this episode of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown.
00:18Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock podcast on all podcast platforms.
00:23And now, it's time for today's conversation.
00:26Here's Meltdown.
00:27Gene, first of all, happy belated birthday, man.
00:31What does the demon do when he turns 77?
00:34You get up every day, and you gotta move, use it, or lose it, as they say.
00:42Yeah.
00:43By the way, it sounds like a soundbite, but every day is my birthday.
00:48I don't have a thing about the calendar dictating when you're supposed to celebrate life.
00:55Somebody told me something a long time ago, and it was pretty, it was a real wake-up call,
01:02and that is that at the end of today, you, young man, are going to be alive one less day.
01:10The fuse has been lit, and every day, it gets, you know, closer to the end.
01:18So, I think the lesson we should all learn from that is, get up every day, work hard, be kind
01:26to your neighbor, kiss a pretty girl, and, you know, leave your mark, and then you die.
01:30Yeah, I know, my son used to say that life is like a roll of toilet paper, it goes faster
01:36near the end.
01:37Is that true?
01:39Yeah, but hopefully you don't get, you don't get your face wiped up in shit.
01:45But I understand, well, of course, I mean, we're all just passing through.
01:52Yeah, well, you know, your mom lived a really long life, so you've still got many years ahead of you.
01:56I mean, and you're still going.
01:58Of course, you've got this show coming up September 20th.
02:00You've got a bunch of shows coming up here.
02:02You just love being on stage, don't you?
02:04I love it.
02:06I love it because imagine you're a painter.
02:11And by the way, I'm really excited because in October next month, I fly to Nashville to get the Performer
02:17of the Year Award.
02:18I mean, if you like that sort of thing.
02:20For me, as a little kid, to get an A on a test or an A-plus on a test,
02:26it was like, you know, a big thing.
02:27And then when you grow up, it's the things like getting the Hollywood Star Walk of Fame or the Kennedy
02:32Center Honors or the Songwriters Hall of Fame, you know, stuff like that.
02:36Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
02:38Those are things that it doesn't really mean anything.
02:41Let's not kid ourselves.
02:43But it's a way for your peers to say, hey, pretty good.
02:48But speaking of potato chips, I love it.
02:52I often wondered when I was first starting out with the band 50 years ago, before you were born, actually
02:59closer to 55 now.
03:03Like all I ever wanted was to be in a band that went in the studio and recorded one album.
03:11One.
03:11I just wanted to be able to go into a store, record store.
03:15They used to have those in those days when people used to rub two sticks together, you know, fire and
03:21everything.
03:21And before young people felt they were entitled to free health care and things like that.
03:27Yeah.
03:28Bullshit.
03:31And that's all I ever wanted to do.
03:33And then that day came.
03:35That day came when I walked next to Electric Lady Studios in New York where we did our first record.
03:42Went next door and actually bought the first record, $3.39.
03:47You know, then they got more expensive and all that.
03:51And then after that, it's like I think it's analogous to when you're a kid and you never made a
03:58penny in your life.
03:59You walk down the street, you look on the floor and you go, oh, my God, there's a penny on
04:04the floor.
04:04I can pick it up and it's mine.
04:06I mean, then when you find the second penny or whatever, you know, that's good.
04:10I did that.
04:11Then you find a dime.
04:13Oh, my God, there's a dime.
04:15You pick it up and you go, wow.
04:17And then later on, you find a dollar and you go, oh, wow, I found a dollar.
04:22I'm rich.
04:24So, you know, how we look at life is all relative.
04:27You know, when you climb on top of a mountain, you go, wow, I made it.
04:30Then you look around and there are taller mountains.
04:33Then you go, OK, roll up your sleeves and keep going.
04:36That's really the idea.
04:38Yeah.
04:39Keep going.
04:41There's got to be an addiction process to going on stage all the time, isn't there?
04:46I don't like that word.
04:47I think it infers negativity, drug addicts, alcohol and so on.
04:55But when you love doing something, I wonder why that's an addiction.
05:00Yeah.
05:00Like you're a workaholic losers say that, you know, who the starving people in sad in India and other places
05:12in the world who don't have jobs and are trying to figure out how to how to feed their families.
05:17They can't imagine anybody would come up with a phrase like your workaholic.
05:22You're working too much, too much.
05:24I please let me work too much.
05:27I'll give you my first born.
05:29Yeah.
05:30Where we are.
05:31We are entitled and spoiled.
05:34And I think I've had about enough of that.
05:37The most impressive people to me are Buffett and Elon Musk and Bezos.
05:43Elon's worth, I don't know, about a trillion and a half, something like that.
05:50What does he do every day?
05:52He gets up.
05:53He's he's planning.
05:54He's doing.
05:55He's planning.
05:56For goodness sakes, cities on Mars.
05:58While the rest of us are complaining about the traffic jam.
06:02We're doing we're doing nothing.
06:05These are these are people who have higher intellect and a grander vision of life that you can do big
06:12things.
06:13And for me, the big thing is, look, imagine you write a book and you're really proud of it.
06:19You worked hard and you want, you know, and then once you're finished, you put it on the shelf and
06:24nobody reads it.
06:25Well, look, that's you don't get anything out of that.
06:28The joy is to have other people read it and comment some love it.
06:33You you you're a painter and you do this amazing painting that you're really proud of.
06:38And I've done some of that myself.
06:40Well, if nobody sees it, where's the joy in that?
06:46So writing songs is the same thing or being in a band.
06:50There can't be a party without you.
06:54If you're alone at home spinning your favorite record and you have potato chips and Diet Coke and that ain't
07:00much of a party.
07:02Well, I mean, wait, I mean, think about yourself.
07:05Where would you be if you're home alone talking to yourself?
07:09Yeah, I'd be listening to Destroyer on my turntable, I think, maybe.
07:12Well, you're very kind.
07:13Well, I have done that many times in the past.
07:16By the way, celebrating its 50th anniversary.
07:18And you got this collection with a Dixon flannel.
07:21You're you're always coming up with stuff.
07:23I guess people are always coming to you to put the Kiss brand logo.
07:26Oh, that is that is Dixon's cool.
07:29But that's just a drop in the bucket.
07:32There are literally thousands of new licensed products.
07:36And we've got a new partner called Pop House that actually bought Kiss.
07:40Yes.
07:41Yeah.
07:42And I keep hearing big numbers go, you know, lots of who knows.
07:49But they're the best partners you can imagine because they're in the middle of putting together the first Kiss movie
07:58scripted and everything.
07:59We've got McG directing.
08:01He did Charlie's Angels and lots of other stuff.
08:05And Mark Canton is producing, who ran one of the major studios in Hollywood.
08:11And we're almost at the casting stages.
08:13You know, who's going to play who and so on.
08:16So that's very exciting.
08:18And there's going to be.
08:20Oh, my goodness.
08:21Cartoon shows, theme parks, you whatever you can imagine where no band has gone before.
08:28Who do you want to play you in the movie?
08:30Do you have any?
08:30Did he have any?
08:31Yeah, my preference would be unknowns.
08:36Okay.
08:37I mean, I don't want to see.
08:39That's my taste.
08:41I know that it's better for marketing people because they just produced a big movie that came out called Deep
08:48Water that had Sir Ben Kingsley and Aaron Eckhart.
08:52I saw that.
08:52That was really good, actually.
08:54Very good.
08:54Yeah.
08:55Yeah.
08:57Movies take an awfully long time.
08:59But when somebody is too well-known, it's difficult to even say anything because there are always exceptions.
09:05But when you're doing a biopic, you've got to be really careful who's going to be the person.
09:11If you know too much about what somebody looks like, Elvis, for instance, it's really tough to get somebody to
09:19play that part who's, I don't know how to say this, too well-known.
09:23Because reality gets, oh, that's so-and-so as Elvis.
09:30You want to lose yourself, which is why I'm a big fan of getting lesser-known actors.
09:36Yeah.
09:36Now, did you watch The Dirt and Bohemian Rhapsody and stuff like that?
09:39You like those movies?
09:40The Dirt was terrific.
09:41I thought it was true to form to what Motley's about.
09:44And Rami did amazing.
09:48But for the masses, they don't know who that is.
09:52Yeah.
09:52And that's what made it good.
09:54That's what made it real.
09:56Obviously, the script and the director and all that.
09:59But, yeah, I don't want somebody famous to play Freddie Mercury.
10:04Yeah.
10:04Now, you just talked about, you know, this company buying Kiss.
10:08Somebody wanted me to ask you about what your best business decision was outside of the music world.
10:13Would that be it, you think?
10:15No.
10:16Coming to America.
10:19And I don't say that in jest or anything.
10:22I'm so, to some people, embarrassingly patriotic and grateful for the people of America who allow this legal, I underline
10:36legal, immigrant to come into America and first hear about it as an eight-and-a-half-year-old boy,
10:45because I was eight before I was nine.
10:48See what I just did there?
10:49Yeah.
10:50I started hearing about something called the American dream.
10:54I didn't understand what that was.
10:57And as the years passed, I realized you can't be in Russia and say the Russian dream.
11:02Or in France, the French dream means nothing.
11:06There is only the American dream.
11:09And I'm living proof of it.
11:11It's not only alive, but it's alive and well.
11:14I came from nothing.
11:16My mother was in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany.
11:19I mean, we had nothing.
11:20And we came to America.
11:22And my mother went to work in a sweat factory.
11:25There wasn't even a minimum wage.
11:29And through education and learning to speak English well and learn, you know, assimilating and so on.
11:36We rose to the heights.
11:38I mean, getting the Kennedy Center honors from the president.
11:42Come on.
11:43You can't buy that in a supermarket.
11:45You've got to earn it.
11:48Yeah.
11:48And where are you going to get this award in Nashville?
11:50Where is that going to take place?
11:51I have no idea.
11:53Oh, I thought it was going to be at the opera or something.
11:55I don't use a system.
11:56Well, it's not necessarily a Nashville award.
11:59It's a business symposium where all the promoters in the country get together and they, you know, talk about performers
12:07and the business.
12:09Yeah.
12:09Yeah.
12:10A couple of months ago, I was doing some yard work and I was listening to your interview with Bill
12:12O'Reilly.
12:13Your story is really one of the American dream.
12:15No question about that.
12:16And, of course, then you come here.
12:18You build a huge career, obviously.
12:20You know, you've got two great kids.
12:22Then you talked about record stores and whatnot.
12:25I saw that your son and Paul Stanley's kid were signing records here.
12:28Yeah.
12:29You posted something about how proud you were.
12:31I mean, talk to me about that for a second.
12:33Oh, come on.
12:34I urge anybody and everybody, yes, nepotism is a big word like gymnasium, but ignore that.
12:41At the end of the day, you get judged by what you do, not who you are.
12:45Right?
12:45Yeah.
12:46And so, you know, there are exceptions.
12:50Michael Douglas turned out to be a decent actor, even though Kirk Douglas was an actor and, you know, and
12:55so on and so forth.
12:56There are examples and mostly nepotism doesn't work just because you're Rod Stewart doesn't mean there's going to be junior
13:04Rod Stewart.
13:05And I love Rod, you know, he's got great kids and all that, but the public decides everything.
13:10So ignore everything I say.
13:12Check out Stanley Simmons.
13:15They didn't want to use those names.
13:17They didn't want to, you know, hey, Dad, I love you.
13:19Can I have 20 bucks?
13:21They didn't want to do any of that.
13:23But, you know, they ran up a brick wall, which is you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
13:29They were childhood friends.
13:31They went on tours with us and, you know, they'd see each other and hung out.
13:35And who knew they'd develop into this kind of individually without talking to each other.
13:44Evan went the route of blues and really learned to play great guitar and Nick was keyboards and Nick got
13:52involved in kind of Radiohead, that kind of stuff.
13:55He started off with ACDC, ABBA, you know, all the greats, and then wandered off into Radiohead and, you know,
14:04that kind of stuff.
14:06And then they happened to meet at, just as pals, at Nick's place, and Evan brought an acoustic guitar, and
14:17they set up a video, and they did Sounds of Silence, just one acoustic guitar and those two singing.
14:24You've got to check it out.
14:25Go on YouTube, put Sounds of Silence, Stanley Simmons.
14:29You won't believe it.
14:31Yeah, their band is nothing like Kiss, but there is a groove and kind of a classic mentality to it.
14:38Yeah, and how much did Paul and I have to do with it?
14:42Zip.
14:43They wouldn't even play us the tracks as they were writing it.
14:47Somehow they were able to come up with the goods.
14:49I have no idea how.
14:51And by the way, that doesn't even touch Sophie, who had the number one Asian record called Bubblegum.
14:58And she writes, produces, does all this stuff every day, and she's got over a billion and a half, I
15:08don't know what the hell it's called, streams, downloads.
15:10I don't know the difference.
15:13I have an award sitting here in my room.
15:16Did she ever ask my opinion?
15:18Nope.
15:19Just did it.
15:20But getting back to your point, I love getting up on stage.
15:26Otherwise, these songs fits like a glove, which we do, which Kiss hardly ever played.
15:33When I go through her, it's just like a hot knife through butter.
15:39Come on, that's poetry.
15:41Get up and get your grandma out of here.
15:43That's poetry.
15:44That's right.
15:46And just do the, you know, shut up.
15:50He works twice as hard.
15:51Your man is worth a deuce.
15:52That's right.
15:53If you bring home the bacon, not for the Jews, because they won't do that, but if you're the one
15:58that's bringing home the food, then the guy gets to clean and do all that stuff.
16:03If I'm the one that's bringing home food, it's time to be quiet and go do what I say.
16:09Yeah.
16:10Somebody, you know, we can all be in the same car.
16:12Somebody's got to drive.
16:13Right.
16:14And you know who drives?
16:15The guy that paid for the car.
16:19Hey, you guys just released this live album from Anaheim.
16:22How much unreleased Kiss stuff is in the vault?
16:26There's a lot.
16:27And what I'm thrilled about is hearing back.
16:32You never really think, you know, when I was a kid, I used to fart and shit in my diapers
16:37and all that kind of stuff.
16:38I wasn't any good.
16:39I listened back to it today.
16:40I go, you know, sounds like these guys that wore more makeup and higher heels than your mommy ever did.
16:48Sounds like they were here, you know, to burn rubber.
16:53They weren't fooling around.
16:55If I listen to that as a new band, I go, wow, that's a lot of energy.
16:59And that's what impresses me most.
17:02The band at that point was really all for one, one for all.
17:07And but, you know, familiarity breeds contempt.
17:10Not everybody's got the DNA to run a marathon.
17:14That happened with Lennon and McCartney and Jagger and Richards and, you know, Simon and Garfunkel.
17:19Everybody, it seems for some sad reason, to turn on each other.
17:24Of course, there's drugs and alcohol and all the stupid stuff.
17:27But at least when you were starting out, there was somebody to slap the back of your head so that
17:32you looked like one of those bobblehead dolls when you went astray.
17:37But as you become more famous and richer, there's nobody there to say, are you a moron?
17:43The hell you're doing?
17:44You worked hard to become to get all this the money, the fame, the chicks, and you're going to blow
17:49it.
17:50You are going to blow it.
17:52So I've been lucky.
17:53I've always been straight, never been higher drunk in my life.
17:57Which is why I just turned 77.
18:01I can hold my hand in front of my face and it doesn't do this.
18:05Right, right.
18:06Yeah.
18:06You'd be shocked.
18:08You know, Ozzy and I, bless him, are the same age.
18:12And Ace sadly passed away.
18:16But he's years younger than I am.
18:20Yeah.
18:21How have you and Paul remained so connected at the hip over all these years?
18:28I think it bears noting that you don't have to agree on many things.
18:34And Paul and I hardly do.
18:39He likes cooking.
18:41I can't, you'd have to hold a gun to my head.
18:45He likes French pastries, you know, the fluffy, like sweet shaving cream that you can't chew.
18:55I don't care about that.
18:56But I've got to be able to chew.
18:58Put some chocolate and some jam in the middle of a rock.
19:03And I'm set.
19:04Got to be able to chew.
19:05So if you walk into a room and there's a chocolate cake there.
19:09And if you see, you know, the chocolate missing and just the devil's food left, you know, Paul's been there.
19:16And on the other table, if you see what's left over is the chocolate and devil's food gone, you know,
19:24I've been there.
19:25But, you know, it bears noting that currency has two different, completely different sides.
19:32They don't resemble each other, but both get along fine and both can lay claim to being a dollar bill.
19:39Well, the differences are probably what makes it better.
19:45One and one equals three kind of a thing.
19:47Because if you're exactly the same, then what have you got to offer that I can't do myself kind of
19:53a thing?
19:54Which is why we can talk about Lennon and McCartney and Jagger and Richards.
19:59All we want a solo artist.
20:01It doesn't touch the Beatles or the Stones.
20:05Yeah, and if you notice that, you know, I guess when you're coming here solo on September 20th, playing all
20:10these great songs and stuff.
20:11But I guess when you put the band back together, when that unit is formed, that's when it really, the
20:15magic takes over.
20:16At the end of the day, you live or die by the team.
20:20And I've got killers.
20:21I've got three guys who are multi-instrumentalists.
20:24Every guy can lead his own band.
20:26They all sing.
20:27In fact, at the show, you're going to hear them.
20:29They're all going to take a song and sing.
20:31And by the way, I just found out Eric Singer, our drummer, is going to drive out.
20:36He wants to jump up on stage.
20:37And you know what?
20:38And have fun.
20:40Wow.
20:41There's nothing.
20:42I mean, I can't think of having more fun with my pants on.
20:47Being on stage, there's just nothing like it.
20:52It's, as they say down south, a hoot.
20:56Yeah.
20:56And I know you're going to be here on September 20th, like I mentioned, UMW Field in Utica.
21:00But I want to give this a shout as well.
21:02November 5th, you're going to be at my friend's place in Green Bay, the Epic Events Center.
21:06And I was there last month.
21:07They have a giant 20-foot painting of your bass on the wall where the bands hang out.
21:14Oh, that's so sweet.
21:17I always appreciate that kind of stuff.
21:21I, you don't understand.
21:26You know, when a kid can't imagine, I could barely, when I first came to America, I couldn't even ride
21:33a bike.
21:34I mean, we came from nothing.
21:35I never had a bike.
21:36I never had a TV set.
21:38I didn't know what TV was.
21:39I know it sounds like, what are you talking about, everybody?
21:41No, not where I came from.
21:43They had dirt roads.
21:44I never heard of television.
21:46When I came to America, I turned on the first TV, and I couldn't believe it.
21:50It was like, ooh, what is it?
21:52I thought there was a guy.
21:53There was the news, and there's a close-up of the guy's face, black and white.
21:58Color hadn't come yet.
21:59And he's saying, this evening, tonight, I thought there was a guy in the box.
22:04I didn't know there was, that his image was being flown through the air thousands of miles.
22:11What?
22:12And then I saw a human being with a cape flying through the air outside of a plane.
22:18I just couldn't understand.
22:20It was like, what is that?
22:22And then I walked into my first supermarket, which was like a city of food.
22:27I saw people going down avenues and byways where the food was taller than the people.
22:34They would disappear.
22:36Like, what is that?
22:38America.
22:39Come on.
22:40There's not another country that touches us.
22:43And then at one point, you probably watched four guys from Liverpool on TV, and it probably blew your mind.
22:48I didn't know what to think.
22:50I always worked, and I remember it was a Sunday night, and I came.
22:55Yes, I worked on Sundays.
22:57And I came back, and my sweet mother would have these things called TV dinners.
23:03You'd have this thing, box, and you'd warm it up in the oven.
23:09We didn't have microwave back then.
23:11And eat them on TV trays.
23:14TV trays.
23:15Yeah, that's right.
23:15And I had a TV tray.
23:16You had your mashed potatoes, your peas, you know, like meat, and even dessert, like a small slice of cheesecake
23:24or something.
23:24I was happy, even with the peas.
23:27So I'm eating the stuff and all the way.
23:29If you talk like that, and she loves you.
23:31I'm going, what is that?
23:33It's like four girls with the silly hair.
23:36Because in those days, everybody had really, really short hair.
23:40I mean, I've got really long hair, but it's tied back.
23:44At any rate, I thought they looked funny.
23:49And then my mother came in, and she said, boy, they look funny.
23:51And at that point, I thought, huh, maybe they look cool.
24:00And of course, you modeled Kiss after that.
24:04And whenever you come to Detroit, it's always a big thing.
24:06I saw you at your Rock and Brews when you were here a couple months ago.
24:09Now you're coming back to Detroit Rock City on September 20th.
24:12So it'll be a big night.
24:14I love it all.
24:16And you meet new folks, people of all ages, from all walks of life.
24:21And often you meet people that have been going to the concerts and Kiss and my solo band.
24:30It's like an extended family.
24:32It's the best.
24:33And by the way, Kaleido's playing that day, the Detroit band.
24:35And also a Derek St. Holmes from the old Ted Nugent days.
24:38Yeah, Derek, sure.
24:40Took Ted out as an opening band.
24:43Within a year and a half of forming, we found ourselves, and it just came out,
24:49the live box set, Kiss Destroys Anaheim.
24:54Here we are headlining a stadium.
24:57And Ted and his band were one of the opening bands.
25:01And there was Derek.
25:02He was there.
25:04And Bob Seger was on the bill.
25:06And, you know, all kinds of great artists who've been around for decades, at least a decade.
25:12We didn't know what we were doing.
25:14It bears noting, by the way, people were saying,
25:16Ah, it must have been great.
25:17How many mansions did you have?
25:19No, I was on $85 a week salary.
25:23All the money we made went right back into the shows.
25:27But you didn't care.
25:29You were rock and roll gypsies.
25:31The circus came back into town.
25:33You hop on and you just go on an adventure.
25:35You had as much attention.
25:37And as you're seeing the sights and his chicks.
25:41Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
25:43Because I have a feeling if I was a dentist, I wouldn't get as much attention.
25:47Oh, he's a dentist?
25:48I got to give him some.
25:50Hey, by the way, real fast.
25:52Before I cut you loose here, I saw Rush the other day.
25:54Oh, my God.
25:55I love that band.
25:56So good.
25:57They were so good.
25:58And, of course, you guys famously toured together back in the day.
26:00No, it's a little different.
26:03We took him from nowhere.
26:04Nobody would give him a tour because they were Canadian.
26:07Right.
26:08But when Paul and I heard Working Man and especially, yeah.
26:13Oh, yeah.
26:15I thought, what is that?
26:17And we didn't care where it was from, for heaven's sakes.
26:20I wasn't born in America.
26:22So we took Rush out on their very first tour.
26:25And we'd had to torture the promoters who, when you got there to do a show,
26:31I'll never forget, we played Winterland in San Francisco.
26:35And it was Kiss, The Tubes, and then Rush.
26:39And I remember Getty, I think it was Getty, who came into our dressing room
26:43as we were putting on makeup because we got to start two hours earlier
26:46while the opening bands are going on.
26:49And he's going, we're really hungry.
26:51Can you arrange food?
26:52I go, what are you talking about?
26:53You should have food in your dressing room.
26:55He goes, no.
26:56So the promoter cheaped out.
26:58So half made up.
27:00I went over to Bill Graham.
27:02And I said, we don't go on.
27:04You don't feed our bands.
27:05We don't go on.
27:07So they went out and got burgers and stuff like that.
27:10Yeah.
27:11Treat everybody the way you want to be treated.
27:14Well, one of the recent shows, I guess, Annika,
27:17she kind of plays these games at the end of Working Man,
27:19at the end of their set.
27:20And she actually put on the costume thing, I guess,
27:24Ace and Alex used to goof around with the...
27:28The bag.
27:28Yeah, the bag.
27:30Called the bag, yeah.
27:31It bears noting on the very last show in San Diego
27:36when Neil was still, you know, alive.
27:40What they did was pay an homage to Kiss.
27:45And right on stage were these six foot tall...
27:49They were store...
27:51What were they called?
27:52Like when you wanted to buy Kiss stuff,
27:54it was like the band was there, you know, full height.
27:57And we were on the stage for the entire evening.
28:02Yeah.
28:02No, look, it's...
28:05You will meet the same people going up...
28:08That's right.
28:09...as you will going down.
28:11That's right.
28:12But so far...
28:14So far, so good.
28:17Well, the UW on field Sunday, September 20th,
28:21the inaugural USPBL Fall Music Classic.
28:24Gene, I can hardly wait to see you back here
28:25in Detroit Rock City.
28:26Thank you so much for your time.
28:27You're a powerful and attractive man.
28:29Dude, it's been great for you to talk to me.
28:32Good.
28:33You're learning.
28:34Check out Talkin' Rock with Meltdown
28:36on all podcast platforms and WRIF.com.