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00:00Football starts tonight, but not for the New York Jets. Not yet.
00:03I'm Ryan Sampson. That's Frankie Vittorini from U Stadium.
00:06This is Gangs All Here.
00:07We're going to be talking to Kaz a little bit about our training camp report.
00:09Get his analysis on what's going on there.
00:11Geno Smith is looking pretty good at practice right now, Frankie.
00:14He is looking pretty good.
00:15I'm curious to see, though, how this shapes out when it comes to week one, though.
00:20I'm not getting too excited, but I like it.
00:22It's better than what we had to see last year.
00:24We're going to break down the potential for this offense with Geno Smith if he looks good.
00:27We're also going to talk about David Bailey, who is making some really big leaps in practice.
00:32And Kaz is going to give us some really good insight there.
00:34Don't miss today's episode.
00:43And, of course, we're joined now by our Jets beat writer, Brian Costello,
00:47who is from the Jets training facility there to talk about this Jets team
00:52and what's going on in training camp.
00:54But before we get into what happened today at practice, Kaz, there are some Jets fans
01:00who are wondering, why are you fraternizing with the enemy down in Nashville
01:04with Robert Sala and Brian Dayball?
01:09They're not my enemies, guys.
01:12I could not care less who wins in week one.
01:16I hope it's a blowout one way or the other so it's easy to write.
01:20Well, we do know that I know on my end why you were down there.
01:24You were talking to Sala.
01:24You were talking to Dayball.
01:25Getting their perspective, obviously, is both former Giants and Jets head coaches.
01:31But can you elaborate a little bit further?
01:33Like, how was those discussions?
01:34What was it like covering being down there for Titans camp?
01:37Yeah, look.
01:39Look, I mean, it's always interesting when a former Jets coach lands somewhere else.
01:44It was interesting when Rex was in Buffalo.
01:47We did stories on him.
01:48We did stories on Mangini in Cleveland, right?
01:51So it's interesting.
01:52And then add in the element that they're playing week one.
01:54It's even spicier.
01:55And then Dayball, you know, these two former New York coaches uniting in Tennessee.
02:00There's also a lot of players there.
02:02I talked to Jermaine Johnson.
02:04I'll be writing something about him soon.
02:05I talked to JFM.
02:07I talked to Wondell Robinson, you know, as the ex-Giant.
02:11So just a lot of interesting storylines there, Ryan.
02:14And so it felt like a pretty good trip to make where we could get a lot of stories out
02:19of there.
02:19And, yeah, I had a long conversation with Salah in his office before practice.
02:26And, you know, he's in a good place.
02:29He's excited about his team.
02:31But they're a very young team.
02:33So it was interesting to watch Cam Ward practice.
02:37And they've added a lot of pieces there.
02:39They had a lot of money to spend in free agency.
02:42Carnell Tate in the draft.
02:43So they're an interesting team.
02:46Kaz, how do you compare the talent pool between what you saw in Tennessee and what this Jets team has?
02:52Now, I know they haven't practiced all that much.
02:54So it's tough to kind of – yeah, it's tough to kind of see.
02:56But how do you kind of view both teams?
02:58Yeah.
02:59Yeah, look, I mean, I only saw one practice in Tennessee.
03:01But I came away thinking this, Frankie, is the matchups up front are going to be the most interesting element
03:09of that game.
03:10Yeah.
03:10Both ways.
03:11The Titans are – they have holes on the offensive line.
03:16I'll try to put it kindly.
03:18They – they're weak on the offensive line.
03:20And I do think, you know, what we've seen from the Jets with Bailey and Will McDonald and if Osaya
03:28and Ibarri can get healthy and obviously the guys inside, they should be able to put pressure on Cam Ward.
03:33I would be surprised if the Jets didn't.
03:35Now, conversely, they've got a really good defensive line.
03:39Two guys Jets fans know very well with JFM and Jermaine on two sides, Jeffrey Simmons in the middle.
03:45I know – I know we're high on the offensive line with the Jets and especially the tackles.
03:50But this is going to be a good test for them right away and kind of a sneaky one, right?
03:54Like it's not – this isn't Miles Garrett or TJ Watt or big names.
03:58But Jets fans know what Jermaine is capable of when he is playing at his highest level.
04:04And I think he's motivated.
04:05I talked to him and he seems like he's in a good place physically and mentally.
04:09And then JFM is just a really good football player.
04:12And obviously Jeffrey Simmons might be the best defensive tackle in all of football.
04:16So to me, I walked away, Frankie, saying the trenches are going to be interesting.
04:22Titans are young in a lot of spots.
04:24So are the Jets.
04:25It's going to be – it's an interesting matchup.
04:28And like I said, I only saw one practice.
04:30So it's not like he can come here and give you a good read on Cam Ward.
04:33He didn't have the best day when I was there.
04:35But you drop into training camp one day, you don't know what you're going to get.
04:39So I do think – I feel like the Jets are a little bit ahead of them in spots in
04:45terms of building a roster.
04:47Like obviously this is Sal's first year there, Dable's first year.
04:50But they do have some interesting pieces for sure.
04:52Calvin Ridley, you know, at receiver.
04:55I thought that was – you know, you see some guys, you're like, oh, yeah, I forgot he was still
04:58here.
04:59And they've added some talent to that team.
05:01Yeah.
05:02It's certainly – it's going to be a fun matchup, like you said, Kaz.
05:06There's a ton of storylines going into week one.
05:08The Robert Sala angle of it all going against the former team that he was fired from midseason.
05:13But I think for us, I do want to get back into the Jets conversation because, look, there's no secrets
05:21about it.
05:22We've seen the Twitter reports and the training camp reports.
05:25But I do want to start with Geno Smith and what you've seen from him thus far.
05:30There's definitely been a lot of talk and discussion, I feel like, guys, from content creators, writers, whatnot,
05:36that Geno is very refreshing to watch for training camp because of the way he's able to push the ball
05:42downfield
05:42and be more aggressive to take more shots, which I think they're trying to – I think Glenn talked about
05:47it today.
05:48They want that ability to stretch the field because make explosive plays,
05:51which this Jets offense has been lacking for so many years now.
05:54But it's refreshing for you guys to watch an actual quarterback stand up in the pocket
06:00and take shots downfield.
06:01What have you seen thus far from Geno?
06:05I'm not sure I'd call it refreshing, Ryan.
06:07We're two years removed from seeing one of the greatest quarterbacks that ever played football
06:10in training camp every day.
06:12I mean, this does not compare to Aaron Rodgers at all.
06:15Let's just make that clear.
06:17He's not close to Aaron Rodgers' level.
06:19Not close, Kaz.
06:21Not close.
06:22Okay.
06:23Not close.
06:23Watching Aaron Rodgers every day was like watching Picasso paint.
06:28That was amazing.
06:30I don't think I'll ever probably experience that again covering training camp.
06:35Now, if you're comparing it to last year in Justin Fields, yeah,
06:39Justin Fields isn't even close to Geno Smith, right?
06:42So, yeah, he's taking a lot of deep shots, and that's good.
06:49But, yeah, I'm not going to go overboard on it.
06:51I think he's refreshing compared to Justin Fields.
06:55But it's not like we haven't seen this in training camp before.
06:58You know, obviously, Rodgers had two really good training camps here.
07:02Zach, not so much.
07:04Darnold had some really good training camps, I thought, too, where we saw this.
07:08So, you know, you can't get too carried away with what you see early August.
07:13Yeah, look, I understand what you're saying about, you know, you saw the Rodgers stuff,
07:17and there is no comparison.
07:18But I'm just talking about, again, the refreshing part of last year to this year,
07:23I think it's very stark.
07:25But I also wonder, like, Geno had talked about it today.
07:30He really, really likes the weapons that they put together in the wide receiver room,
07:34the running back depth pieces with Brees Hall and Braylon Allen, and Davis is banged up.
07:39He talked about the tight end group as well.
07:41And then the offensive line, we love the promising potential they have with the two young tackles.
07:46He seems to be set up for success here.
07:48And, again, what would determine a successful offense for you in your mind with Geno and these weapons?
07:58Yeah, I think just a competent offense would be successful at this point, right?
08:01Like, just functional, not having games like we talked about where they don't get their first first down
08:07until a two-minute warning, scoring in the first quarter, scoring on the first drive,
08:12like stuff we haven't seen a lot of.
08:15That would be a successful offense to me.
08:17But I think there's just a lot of question marks.
08:20I think people are kind of maybe checking things off where the only givens, I feel like, on this offense
08:28are Brees and Garrett.
08:30Everything else in my mind is to some degree a question mark.
08:33I think Memu is good.
08:35When I hear, like, he could be all pro, I think that's a question mark.
08:38Like, I don't think he – I'm not sure we could pencil that in yet.
08:41I think you know what to expect from Garrett.
08:43You know what to expect from Brees.
08:44The rest of it, I think, is up in the air a little bit.
08:46And, you know, we're going to see what they look like on September, whatever, 13th.
08:52Yeah, Kaz and Ryan, we've spoken about this for months now.
08:56It's the what if.
08:57If this goes well.
08:58If this goes well.
08:59If that goes well.
09:00But if it goes bad, we might be back to square one where our best two players are Garrett Wilson
09:05and Brees Hall like they've been for the last couple years.
09:08So – but with that said, Kaz, Ryan and I have been going a little bit back and forth offline
09:13about this.
09:14When it comes to Geno Smith, in my opinion – Ryan differs, I think, a bit.
09:19My opinion, I think the leadership intangible here is where I think Geno can get us to a point where
09:27the offense is average,
09:28maybe creeping above average, to it just potentially being a bottom five offense.
09:34I think if Geno comes in and shows the rest of the young guys that he's a leader, he's staying
09:40late,
09:40he's helping you with film, et cetera, I think this offense could be pretty good.
09:45You can start seeing some things like people have talked about with the Ryan Fitzpatrick 15-year.
09:50But if Geno's not going to be that guy and is kind of just here on a one-year, you
09:56know,
09:57figure-things-out kind of season and pie-in-the-sky sort of might go well, might not, I don't
10:03know.
10:03I think this offense could be pretty bad.
10:05I think the talent that he brings to the table is pretty average or maybe below average as, what,
10:12a 34-, 35-year-old quarterback kind of on his last, you know, starting gig.
10:17So, I don't know, how much do you feel the leadership stuff with Geno, the extra, the stuff up here,
10:23the in here,
10:24how much does that, you know, how valuable is that when it comes to how good this offense could be,
10:30in your opinion?
10:32I think the talent is way more valuable, Frankie.
10:35I think it's about what he can do on the field.
10:37I do, I don't know.
10:38That's what Ryan says.
10:40Yeah, I think it's really about what he can do.
10:41I agree, but not as much as you guys are.
10:43On the field, I don't know.
10:44I don't, I don't, like, we've talked about Demario Davis on the other side of the ball.
10:49I don't see Geno as that guy, as, like, the, I don't think he has enough pelts on the wall,
10:55to be honest with you.
10:56Like, I just don't think he's got it, he's accomplished enough in the NFL.
11:00I think he's an interesting guy because he's experienced so many different things.
11:03Like, he's sort of like a Forrest Gump character of the NFL, right?
11:06Like, he was his second-round pick, he was a starter here as a rookie.
11:11Obviously, we know the punch that derails his career.
11:14He goes through an ACL.
11:17He goes to the Giants, which he's the guy who played when they benched Eli Manning.
11:21Yep.
11:21Like, which is crazy to think about, right?
11:22Which was a huge thing.
11:23And then he has to be a backup for a few years.
11:26And then he gets the second life in Seattle as the guy replaces Russell Wilson, the Vegas chapter.
11:31So, he's had a lot of interesting experiences, and I think players would be wise to tap into that and
11:37learn from him in that regard.
11:38I just don't see him as a big-time voice like a DeMarco Davis type.
11:43Does he have to be, though?
11:44I don't feel that from him.
11:45Do you think he has to be, though, for this offense to get to the next stage or to get
11:49to average?
11:50I don't, I don't, I don't.
11:51No, I don't think so.
11:52I think he just needs to play well, right?
11:54I don't think they need him to be that guy.
11:56Yeah, look, Frankie, I think this is what I had said to you offline.
11:59I said, throw touchdowns, win football games.
12:01That's what's ultimately going to matter for Geno Smith.
12:03Be competent at quarterback, like Kaz said, but at the same time, raise the level of play of everyone else
12:09around you,
12:10which I think he can do because he can be decisive in the pocket.
12:13If you give him time with the offensive line, I think he can actually make some dangerous throws downfield,
12:18meaning good, dangerous plays for them, but also dangerous throws because he's going to take the risk
12:22and throw it into coverage when he shouldn't be.
12:24But that's tantalizing, I think, as an offense for Frank Reich
12:27because I think the Jets have married up a good, like, a good combination between Reich and Geno
12:34where they're going to draw plays for him to attack downfield and be the pocket passer that he can be.
12:40Look, Geno last year was 37th according to pro football focus in passing PFF grade.
12:45Like, it wasn't a good year for him last year, but he's got a lot more pieces here this year.
12:52He's got a lot more protection, you would think, on that offensive line.
12:56I think Frank Reich and him do work well together, and I don't think he has to be a leader.
13:01I think he just, again, needs to be in the system, take shots when you can,
13:05get the ball to your playmakers in Brees and Garrett.
13:07You have two tight ends you think you can get the ball to, and see how the offense goes.
13:11I think it's a little bit more Kaz, though, than what you're saying.
13:14Like, don't be playing behind early.
13:16I think the Jets actually have a chance to be a more aggressive offense, if that makes sense.
13:21Like, it's not so much like we're actually going to be in games.
13:25It's more like, hey, can we jump out to a quick 10-0 lead in the game?
13:28That'd be nice.
13:29You know, like, I think the offense could have that type of potential.
13:32I'm not talking about the Rams and Sean McVay, but I'm talking about, like,
13:36an offense that can give your defense.
13:37You're looking at best-case scenario, by the way.
13:39Best-case scenario, by the way, like, if the offense reaches that potential.
13:41Yeah.
13:43Yeah, and I think, frankly, the leadership piece comes after he plays well.
13:46Like, you mentioned Fitzpatrick, right?
13:48Yeah.
13:48Like, remember now, Fitzpatrick got the job in the middle of the training camp
13:52after Geno was injured.
13:53Yeah.
13:54And no one was viewing Fitz as the leader.
13:57Fitz was, you know, he hated being called this, a journeyman quarterback that came in
14:00and was supposed to just be backing up Geno.
14:04The Fitz thing was like a snowball, right?
14:06Like, they just played.
14:07They played well.
14:08They won the Monday night game in Indianapolis in week two,
14:11and he could feel, like, the momentum was rolling, and it kind of worked where he clicked
14:17with Mangold, he clicked with Brandon Marshall, he clicked with Eric Decker.
14:21Like, they became a very tight-knit group, but I think the success came first,
14:25and then that aspect developed.
14:26So, I think Geno could, that could happen if Geno plays really well right away.
14:31And I agree.
14:32I think, guys, I just think it's going to be up and down.
14:34I think it's going to be weeks where it looks really good, weeks where it looks really bad.
14:38I know people want to say, like, is Geno going to be the guy he was last year,
14:41or is he going to be the guy, was it 2022 was his really good year in Seattle?
14:45I could see it being more like 2024 in Seattle, his last year there.
14:50Like, 21 touchdowns, 15 interceptions.
14:52He did throw for 4,300 yards, which would be something.
14:56But, you know, I could see it being more in line with that type of season.
15:01And are they top, are they the average offense?
15:05I think they'll probably be, like, 22, 23 in that range of offense.
15:08They're not bottom five, like you mentioned, but they're probably not top 15 is what would be the ultimate dream,
15:15probably.
15:16Yeah.
15:16I mean, 18 to 24 is probably, like, the sure bet for this Jets offense right around there.
15:22And even that, compared to last year, would look worlds better.
15:27Oh, yeah.
15:28And look like a completely incompetent offense compared to what we saw last year.
15:31Because, again, guys, like, if you look at the advanced stats of Brady Cook, Tyrod Taylor, and Justin Fields,
15:36they're all below the 32nd ranked quarter.
15:39They're all in the 40s.
15:40Like, it's that bad when you talk about quarterbacks and the EPA that they added to their team
15:45and the completion percentage above expected.
15:47Yeah, it was pretty epic last year.
15:48It was epically bad.
15:49Epically bad.
15:50Let me just say one quick thing to what Kaz was saying.
15:52And I was actually thinking about this the other night.
15:55I have some, I have these thoughts late at night about this Jets team.
15:58Now, when they're playing badly, that offense, this is where the leadership stuff, for me, comes in.
16:05So, maybe it doesn't necessarily start right away.
16:08It doesn't rear its ugly head right away.
16:09Yes.
16:09When things start going bad and the dominoes start falling negatively,
16:15who's going to pick this offense up?
16:17Because it can look bad, and you know it will look bad.
16:20And who are you going to look at in that huddle to gather everyone together to kind of say,
16:24all right, guys, we can't get a first down out here.
16:26We just threw two interceptions, like, get it together.
16:29That's where maybe it's not Geno, or maybe Geno's had some success in previous games
16:35where he can go back into his bag as to what he did in games before, and things will get
16:39better.
16:39But I'm just wondering that, that's my biggest concern, excuse me, with the offense.
16:45Yes, is can you stop the snowball from getting bigger and bigger and bigger until it's an avalanche?
16:50That's my concern with this offense.
16:52Can Geno stop the snowball effect?
16:57Yeah, I don't know, right?
16:58Yeah, I don't think, yeah, it's impossible to answer, right?
17:00It takes you know that.
17:01But I also think guys like Garrett Wilson is interning year five, right?
17:05Yeah.
17:06Some of this has to be on Garrett at this point, too.
17:08If you want to be the best player on the team, you want to be the highest paid player,
17:12at some point you've got to be a leader.
17:14So I do think he needs to be looked at, too, on offense as being one of those guys.
17:19And that would be kind of a step up for Garrett.
17:22He has not really been in that role during his time here.
17:25But maybe this is the year that Garrett kind of finds his leadership voice and maybe helps
17:31along Geno in that regard.
17:33Yeah.
17:33Yeah.
17:34Speaking of Garrett, I think we should definitely talk about him, his camp he's having.
17:38I know it's probably usual from your perspective, Kaz, like he makes plays, but I am interested
17:43in the battle between him and Brandon Stevens.
17:45It seems like those two have had a pretty good battle in training camp thus far.
17:49Does that speak more to Stevens and how much he seems to be getting better in this system?
17:54Or Garrett just always is going to find ways to get open no matter who it is?
18:00Yeah.
18:00No, I think there was one today.
18:02The first player, they did a high red zone from the 25, and Garrett just shook free.
18:08And obviously, we're watching it live.
18:09There's no replay.
18:10So I don't know exactly how he got open.
18:12But you looked up, and he was wide open in the end zone, and he had beaten Stevens somehow.
18:17And Geno found him for a really nice 25-yard touchdown pass.
18:22So yeah, I actually just wrote a little something for it.
18:24We do a graphic in the paper every day.
18:27And it's easy to overlook Garrett because it's expected.
18:30So when he has a good day, it's not like, oh, my God, look at Garrett.
18:33But he's looked good, guys.
18:35He looks really good.
18:36He looks like Garrett.
18:37Garrett, you know, showing no ill effects of his injury.
18:41And I'm curious, you know, again, a lot of this is happy talk during this time of year.
18:46But they've talked about how Frank Reich's offense fits him.
18:50And Reich gives players a little leeway into what they can do.
18:54And that's Garrett.
18:54You know, Garrett is not a guy who runs the play exactly as it's drawn up in the book.
18:59Garrett has a little freelance to his game.
19:01And we'll see.
19:02They're saying that that's what Reich's offense is going to be.
19:06Sometimes that's happy talk in August.
19:08It doesn't really translate.
19:09But I do think Garrett has looked really good.
19:12And, you know, Stevens, guys, I thought he had a good year last year in terms of coverage.
19:16There weren't games where I was like, oh, my God, Brandon Stevens is going to be here.
19:19Totally.
19:19He just doesn't have the ball skills.
19:21He just doesn't get, you know, pass breakups and interceptions.
19:25And that's where he has to improve.
19:28And I think he had one the other day when I wasn't here.
19:31It was a tip pass.
19:31I saw the video the Jets put out.
19:34But, you know, that's a positive because they obviously didn't have any of those last year.
19:37So, to me, for Stevens, his next step is can he turn the ball over?
19:43I also would worry about this, too, guys.
19:45I thought when they signed Stevens last year, he was the number two, right?
19:48Sauce was here.
19:49He's now the number one corner.
19:51To me, he's more of a number two.
19:52I think he's a nice number two cornerback.
19:54I'm not sure he's a number one cornerback.
19:56So, I do have some concerns about the secondary.
19:59Kaz, how do you feel about AZ Thomas?
20:01I know he's been an X factor for a lot of fans, especially now looking at this cornerback room,
20:07saying he could potentially propel himself into being, even in that cornerback one conversation,
20:12if he can, you know, make some plays.
20:14How do you feel about AZ?
20:16How's he looking out there?
20:17I think he'll be the second cornerback, Frankie.
20:20Okay.
20:20I do think he's going to – I do think he'll end up being the guy opposite, Brandon Stevens.
20:24Him and Nashawn Wright have kind of gone back and forth, and we haven't seen Pons at all because of
20:29his calf.
20:30So, I sort of leave him out.
20:31I do think he's probably in the nickel, you know, when he comes back.
20:34He's competing with Brownlee for that spot.
20:36But there's been some good things from AZ.
20:39He's done some interesting – you know, he's made some interesting plays.
20:42And I thought – one thing that stood out was Aaron Glenn was asked about him last week,
20:47and he basically didn't answer.
20:48He said, like, we need to see him when the pads come on.
20:50So, that to me was like, okay, they're testing this guy a little bit to see what he's got.
20:54I think it's a really important training camp for him.
20:57I think it's really important preseason games that he plays well.
21:00And then, you know, for what you're talking about, Frankie,
21:02I think we're probably a year away from that conversation of could he be a number one.
21:06He'd have to play really well this year to propel him into that conversation.
21:10But I think right now you're looking at him as probably the number two.
21:13Going back to the wide receiver room, Omar Cooper, I've continued to see he's made some plays in camp.
21:18What have you made of the rookies so far in his first couple weeks,
21:21especially with the pads coming on now?
21:23Yeah, he had a bad drop today.
21:24He had a bad drop in seven on seven.
21:26You know, I think he's a rookie.
21:28So, there's moments where he flashes.
21:31You know, other moments where, like, I haven't seen the ball go to him very much today.
21:36So, I think he's a work in progress, Ryan.
21:38And I'm curious, again, the preseason games are going to be huge for these rookies
21:45and also the joint practices with the Bucs next week.
21:47Like, that's when we're going to get more of a tell of where guys are at, to be honest with
21:52you.
21:52Like, I do put a lot more value in those things.
21:55And you also can see what the coaches think of them and what situations they put them in and things
22:00like that.
22:01So, Cooper has flashed.
22:03He's had some good moments.
22:05The day I wasn't hearing it, it was a really good catch.
22:06I saw that video, too.
22:09But I think, you know, I think he's still kind of feeling his way.
22:12Yeah.
22:13It's just I am interested to see how they use him because there's a lot of mouths to feed in
22:17this offense.
22:18Adnan Mitchell has certainly looked like he stepped up thus far.
22:21But it's Garrett, it's Brees, if you think Sadiq.
22:24Speaking of Sadiq, I do want to ask you about this.
22:27I heard you talk, ask Glenn about the injury.
22:29He said a couple weeks now after the setback with the hernia surgery.
22:34Kaz, I know you've been covering the game for a while now.
22:36When a rookie misses this much training camp time, do you get concerned at all,
22:40especially when it's their first year in the NFL?
22:44I do because I think you come back and you're playing catch up, right?
22:47I just, you know, I know he's going to be in meetings and all that stuff,
22:50but it's not the same as getting the reps on the field.
22:53I also think a guy like Sadiq is a guy, like we've all speculated on this,
22:59that they can do a ton of different things with, right?
23:01Now I think you start crossing a few of those things off the list,
23:04at least for the beginning of the season.
23:06Like, you can't have this rookie out there with, you're going to do this, this, this, this, and this.
23:11You're going to use him in this position.
23:12You're going to use him in this position.
23:15You've got to kind of narrow the focus, I think, now for week one, at least,
23:19and week two of like, okay, let's, let's not give him too much to think about.
23:23So you might not be able to be as creative as you hoped with him when you drafted him.
23:29That's alarming.
23:30Like, I, I, I feel for him that he's, he had a setback and he had the surgery in the
23:34off season,
23:35but like, you want to see this guy kind of get off like week one and like, let him,
23:39let him have the full potential of the offense.
23:41I agree with you guys. It is, it's, it's a little concern.
23:44Like he's missing valuable reps, especially next week.
23:46Like you said too, with the bucks, like it would have been great to see Sadiq out there,
23:50like getting reps against another team and seeing, oh, Frank Reich's, you know,
23:55he's motioning him from outside. He's bringing him to the backfield.
23:57He's running a route for the backfield.
23:59Yeah.
23:59He's getting an end around run.
24:01Like there's different things they could do with him.
24:03And it feels like it's tough break for him to miss this much time.
24:07His body type and how he plays too. Usually guys like that, they get banged up every once in a
24:14while.
24:14The last thing you want is that to happen so early because of how freakish he is.
24:19But Kaz, they were saying today, and I think you may have asked Glenn, it doesn't seem as serious.
24:24Like there was some good news kind of about it, right?
24:27Yeah. Well, I don't think he's, I think he's gonna be back for the season opener.
24:29Okay.
24:30He said, but he said weeks. Yeah. So when they say weeks, they mean weeks.
24:35Yeah. Yeah.
24:36Cause they, cause a lot of times we hear, oh, like remember like the beginning of training camp, it was
24:40ponds is fine. I'm not that concerned. We still haven't seen ponds practice.
24:43Yeah. Sweat's fine. I'm not concerned. We still haven't seen sweat practice. Right.
24:46So when they say weeks at the podium, they mean like,
24:50I don't think we're going to see Sadiq the rest of training camp. I'd be surprised.
24:54I don't think we'll see him in preseason.
24:56Wow.
24:56Maybe he's back for that last, for that Giants game. Maybe.
24:58But like, I don't know. That's right. You're one week away from the box.
25:02Yeah.
25:02You're two weeks away from the Steelers. You're three weeks away from the Giants.
25:05Four weeks away from the season, basically.
25:08Five weeks from the season.
25:09Five weeks from the season.
25:10You got a dead week in there. You got a dead week in there with nothing.
25:13To me, I don't think, when he's, when, when Glenn says weeks to me, that's at least two and probably
25:20three.
25:21So maybe he's back for the Giants.
25:23Right.
25:24Maybe. But if he rolls out the Giants week,
25:27and like, I don't have their schedule in front of me, but that game is Friday night.
25:31So they'd probably be practicing like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
25:34Yeah.
25:36Monday, he's going to do individual drills and nothing else.
25:40They'll see how he feels.
25:41Maybe he does team by Wednesday.
25:44Are you going to play him in a preseason game?
25:46If that's all he's had that week, probably not.
25:48They're probably going to be cautious with this guy.
25:50Totally. Wow.
25:50So to me, I think he's probably not going to see him the rest of camp.
25:54And I'm not counting the dead week.
25:56Training camp is over to me once the Giants game is done.
25:59So, yeah, I'd be surprised if we see him at all in the preseason.
26:02Why would you risk him getting hurt in that Giants game?
26:04I completely hear you guys.
26:05It's just a tough break for the Rook.
26:07It is.
26:08They took him with a high pick, and I think a lot of Jets fans are anxious,
26:12and the beat writers like Kaz are anxious to see how they're going to use him
26:16in this offense.
26:17And I want to see him on the field because I think he can be special,
26:20like just because of the talent and the skill that he has.
26:23I have some good news, by the way, because we're talking some negative stuff.
26:27I have some really positive news, guys.
26:29I don't know if you've heard about this really high pick that we drafted.
26:32Let me tee this up here.
26:34Can I get into this a little bit?
26:35Before you get to it, Kaz, I am of the opinion that you really can't
26:41evaluate line play, and I think you the same way, until the pads come on.
26:44The pads have come on, and now we've seen Bailey, Membu, Olu, McDonald,
26:50all these guys on the field.
26:52David Bailey is what Frankie wants to talk about.
26:54I'll let him get his part after I ask you this, though.
26:58What do you make of Bailey thus far, and what do you make of Membu thus far
27:02in that training camp battle that's been going back and forth?
27:05Yeah, it's a fun battle, guys.
27:07They definitely go back and forth.
27:09Like there's been days where Membu's dominated, days where Bailey's dominated.
27:15Bailey's the real deal, and I think you guys have done this long enough with me now
27:18that I don't throw praise around that easy.
27:21Wow.
27:21Especially to rookies.
27:22Love it.
27:23Yeah, let's go.
27:23Kaz is giving him the real deal.
27:25I heard Kaz with Jake, I think.
27:27He was on ESPN Radio, and he was giving Bailey love.
27:30I was listening to that.
27:30Yeah, like there's some guys you see, and they're different.
27:34And I feel like the guy who I always remember, Sheldon Richardson,
27:38you saw it, and he was different.
27:40Jamal Adams was different right away.
27:43Sauce and Garrett were different.
27:44There's guys that come in as rookies, and you just see it like, yeah, okay,
27:48there's this guy.
27:49And I put Bailey in that category.
27:52Wow.
27:52If you were an alien dropped on the field, and you're picking the best players,
27:57you'd pick him because he's just explosive.
27:59He's got a lot of moves.
28:00He's got more power than I thought.
28:02He's been good against the run, too.
28:04Like I've seen him blow up some plays in the backfield, run plays.
28:07He just seems to always be back there.
28:10He had a move on Membu last week that was like, the only way I could describe it
28:15was like a stutter step, and it looked like an Allen Iverson crossover,
28:19the way Membu, you know how like a defender kind of stumbles backwards in
28:23basketball?
28:24Membu, not Membu, sorry, it was Olu.
28:27Olu just kind of fell backwards like off balance by the rush.
28:31And I was like, that was different.
28:33Like that was good.
28:34He's just, he's got such a burst about him.
28:38Yeah, so I think you got one there, Frankie.
28:41Yeah, we'll see, man.
28:43I mean, listen, at the end of the day, to what Ryan was saying,
28:47I was all excited about all these reports when the pads were off.
28:51Now with the pads on, it seems like, you know,
28:54things get a little bit more back to life.
28:55But Kaz, I was looking at this guy, and we talked about it how many times,
29:00about how much I loved him.
29:01And that first step, Kaz, that first step that he has will set everything else
29:06up for him.
29:07It is so freakish because he's able to get almost a yard into the backfield
29:12before some of these offensive linemen are even in their sets.
29:15Yeah.
29:16That sets up the speed to power.
29:18That sets up the club, sets up the spin.
29:20Kaz, something else that's interesting, and this is,
29:23I'm going to be positive, Frankie, for 30 seconds.
29:25If you look, if you look at edge players that have been picked second overall
29:31or defensive tackles.
29:32So these outside linebackers and defensive ends.
29:34Yes.
29:34Taken second overall in the draft since?
29:37Since, we'll go since 2000.
29:392000, so last 26 years.
29:42Yes.
29:42Actually, that's crazy.
29:432000 was 26 years ago.
29:45Holy smokes.
29:46All right.
29:47Aiden Hutchinson was drafted.
29:49How many total are you?
29:50So we'll do Aiden Hutchinson, one, Chase Young, Nick Bosa, Von Miller.
29:54We'll put in Dominic Ndamukong Suh, and then Chris Long, Julius Peppers.
30:01We'll go those guys.
30:02So you're just doing defensive players taking second overall in the line?
30:05Defensive linemen, we'll say.
30:06Okay.
30:07Aiden Hutchinson, Lions went from 3-13-1 to after drafting him,
30:12went to 9-8.
30:13Six win difference.
30:15Six plus wins.
30:16Chase Young, year before they drafted him, were 3-13.
30:20Year after, Kaz, 7-9.
30:22That's plus four wins.
30:23Nick Bosa, Niners, were 4-12 before they drafted Bosa second overall.
30:28Drafted Bosa, they went 13-3.
30:30They won nine games.
30:31They went to the Super Bowl.
30:32They went to the Super Bowl, yes.
30:33Yeah, yeah, you're right.
30:34Von Miller, plus four wins.
30:37Ndamukong Suh, plus four wins.
30:39Chris Long now was minus one, so they went from 3-13 to 2-14.
30:43Hopefully that doesn't happen here.
30:45But Julius Peppers, 1-15.
30:47Got Peppers 7-9, plus six wins.
30:49So, if you go down the list, there's a really good track record, and you could go back into this.
30:54Yeah.
30:55Frank, I would say your better point is how good those players are.
31:01That's true.
31:01Those are some good players.
31:02Robin, I mean, the wins jump is almost going to happen because those teams are picking number two.
31:10So, automatically, if you're picking number two, you probably have three wins or two wins or one win the year
31:15before.
31:16So, chances are you're improving.
31:17And you've also probably got a new coach in a lot of those situations.
31:21A new – like, they spent $100 million.
31:24Like, so you'd have to look at each of those situations.
31:26But I think your greater point is you go down those names.
31:29And those were great players.
31:30Now, Chase Young got injured, and kind of that altered his career, right?
31:34But the other ones you mentioned, like, there's some Hall of Famers on that list, like Julius Peppers.
31:40Vaughn Miller will be a Hall of Famer whenever he stops playing.
31:43Both of them might be on that trajectory.
31:45Yeah, great player, yeah.
31:46Oh, yeah.
31:47Hutchinson's a great player.
31:48So, like, yeah, it's – when you're taking a pass rusher at number two, there's a high hit rate.
31:53Probably better than quarterbacks at number two.
31:55If you started looking at all the quarterbacks drafted there, it's probably been more success.
31:59But, so, yeah, I think – I think the fascinating thing, guys, is going to be to watch what Reese
32:06does for the Giants
32:07and what Bailey does for the Jets.
32:08And that was what we debated all January, February, March, and April.
32:13And, you know, I've seen some of the good reports out of West Virginia about what Reese is doing down
32:17there.
32:17And it feels like he's in a less splashy position, right?
32:21He's playing off-ball linebacker.
32:23He's playing off-ball linebacker, yeah.
32:23So I'm not sure he's going to be able to have the splash plays.
32:24But you'll know if he's a good player, and that's going to be a fun comparison to make throughout their
32:29entire careers.
32:30And I think both players are pretty good.
32:32So I think it's going to be – I think both teams will end up happy with their guy.
32:36But it is going to be interesting.
32:37And, look, if the Jets ended up with four more wins, that's seven wins this year,
32:42I think most Jets fans would take seven wins this year considering what they saw last year and how bad
32:47it was.
32:48Like, seven wins, I think, Kaz, would be a significant improvement from last year.
32:51Yeah, that'd be huge.
32:53Maybe more than doubling your win total.
32:55I have a trivia question for Kaz.
32:57Uh-oh.
32:59Kaz, trivia question.
33:00There was also a great Edge player drafted at Edge in New York second overall.
33:07Do you know who that player was?
33:09Lawrence Taylor.
33:10Yes, sir.
33:11There we go.
33:12I'm just saying.
33:13I'm just saying.
33:14You know, I call him Lawrence Taylor Jr.
33:16Who was drafted first?
33:17That's a better question in 81.
33:21That's the trivia question.
33:22Was it a quarterback?
33:23It was a quarterback.
33:24No.
33:25No.
33:26It's an offensive lineman?
33:27No.
33:29I'm stumped.
33:31I believe it was George Rogers.
33:34But let me confirm that for you.
33:37But I believe it was George Rogers who was a running back.
33:41It was George Rogers.
33:42Wow.
33:43Yeah, first overall.
33:44Yeah.
33:44Wow.
33:45What kind of career did he have?
33:47You went out one day to see how he was.
33:48He was an okay.
33:49Yeah?
33:49He was okay.
33:51He was a two-time Pro Bowl for one time.
33:54First team All-Pro.
33:557,000 rushing yards.
33:56Ran for 1,600 yards as a rookie.
33:5754 touchdowns total.
33:59Wow.
34:00Yeah.
34:00He was a good running back, Frankie, but he was not Lawrence Taylor.
34:03Freeman McNeil, number three.
34:04That's right.
34:05Yes, sir.
34:05Yeah, that was a cool draft.
34:06For the Jets.
34:07Nice.
34:08Cool draft.
34:09Look, the thing I take away from all that is Cod saying he's the real deal.
34:13Oh, yeah.
34:14David Bailey being a real deal would be huge for this Jets defense and for Aaron Glenn.
34:20It would take, I don't want to say pressure, but it would definitely, it would make Aaron Glenn's life a
34:26little bit easier to call this defense and have that type of weapon to deploy against opposing offenses and quarterbacks.
34:33Because, again, I'll bring it up.
34:34There are a lot of mobile quarterbacks the Jets have to face, especially in the AFC.
34:40Josh Allen being numero uno.
34:42You're going to go up against him twice.
34:43Malik Willis can run as well.
34:45Drake May.
34:45Drake May is actually very elusive too.
34:47Lamar Jack.
34:48They need David Bailey to be the real deal on this defense.
34:52Yeah, and I think to your point about Aaron Glenn, we get bogged down into the how many games do
34:58the Jets have to win for Aaron Glenn to be back in 2027.
35:01To me, it's more about how it looks.
35:03Obviously, he can't win two or three games.
35:05He's got to have some wins.
35:07But if the Jets are 6-11, let's say, and David Bailey looks like he's coming, like he's had a
35:16great season, and Sadiq has a good season, and Pons is playing well, and now Olu and Membu have played
35:23well.
35:24And you feel pretty good about this young core in December.
35:29That's a good case for Aaron Glenn.
35:30He can say, look, we're doing player development.
35:33Do you really want to blow this up?
35:35And basically start over, because maybe the next guy is going to come in with a different defense than Aaron
35:40Glenn.
35:40And he's going to want different players, and he's got different philosophies, and now you're starting over in that regard.
35:47So I do think Bailey is a huge key for Aaron Glenn in his job security, and not just in
35:52terms of how many wins he can add, but can he just make the feeling about this team really good
35:57going into 2027?
35:59That's a good point, Kaz, and I know you're excited to see him.
36:04Bailey's going to be playing preseason week one against the Bucs, right?
36:08Like, we expect him to play.
36:09We haven't asked.
36:09We haven't asked, but I think Glenn.
36:11I mean, Aaron Glenn is an old-school type of coach.
36:13I don't think he's going to be sitting.
36:15I remember, like, last year, everybody played, even Fields played that first game.
36:19So I think if I remember last year correctly, the starters played in the first two games and not the
36:24third game.
36:25I think that's how he did it.
36:26So I wouldn't expect him to deviate from that.
36:29Kaz, this practice schedule, speaking of old-school, I'm a little bit – I'm questioning a little bit this whole
36:36practice schedule and some of the time that they're out there for.
36:40It seems like they're practicing for 45 minutes a day.
36:44No.
36:44I mean, it seems like –
36:46No, two hours a day.
36:47Yeah, but, I mean, the practices start, and then I text Ryan, and Glenn's at the podium, it seems like,
36:53less than an hour later.
36:54Well, here's the deal.
36:55Here's the deal, Yorah, guys.
36:56Practice starts at 830 a.m., okay?
36:59You're probably judging it by tweets.
37:02Yes.
37:02The first beginning of practice is basically they're doing, like, a jog-through, I would call it.
37:08It's not walk-through.
37:09It's not practice.
37:10It's offense versus offense, defense versus defense, like scout team type of stuff, and they're just running some places.
37:16We're not tweeting about that.
37:17There's nothing to gain from that.
37:18Then they go to stretch.
37:19We're not tweeting about stretching.
37:21Then they do special teams.
37:22We're not tweeting about special teams.
37:24Then they do individual drills, and maybe you'll get some videos during that time, but you're not going to get
37:28a lot.
37:29Then they go to teams.
37:30So, yeah, the team portion of practice is probably 30, 40 minutes.
37:34I mean, hour 15, maybe, like, hour 15 or something like that, you know.
37:38But, yeah, they're doing two-hour practices.
37:40And, Frankie, at this point, it's so legislated.
37:44I know.
37:44And I talked to Salah about this a little bit, Tennessee.
37:47Like, they're basically, like, there's not a lot of wiggle room these coaches have.
37:52It's you've got this period of time, and, you know, last week is the ramp-up.
37:56So, those are a little shorter practices.
37:58But they've been all basically doing the same thing at this point.
38:01And I think they can move, like, the days off.
38:04They can play with that a little bit.
38:06But, you know, it's basically all the same everywhere you go now.
38:10The days off, they knew this in advance, though, right?
38:13Like, they had planned these days off weeks ago, months ago.
38:17Yeah, yeah, yeah, months ago.
38:18Yeah.
38:19Yeah, and it's like, you know, and Glenn said the other day, like, his thing is, like, they're going to
38:23–
38:24they ramp up the reps, and then they bring it down a little bit.
38:28Then they ramp it up again and bring it down.
38:30So, that's kind of the way he's doing it.
38:32And so, like, this week, they're three days in a row.
38:33They practice today, Friday, Saturday.
38:36They're off Sunday, Monday.
38:38Now, when I say off, that means from practice that we're allowed to watch.
38:41There could be – I'm going to guess there's probably going to be a walk-through Monday that we're not
38:44at,
38:45and they'll probably have meetings, but they won't have a full practice.
38:47And then the Bucs are here Tuesday, Wednesday for joint practices,
38:52and then they're off the day before a game.
38:53So, yeah, it's pretty consistent around the league you look at.
38:57Like, I looked at the Tennessee schedule when I was going there, and their schedule was very similar.
39:01Okay.
39:01It just – it brought me back memories, like, watching and following Coz when Twitter was first around.
39:08There was two-a-days, and, you know, my favorite portion was you guys tweeting about goal line with Rex
39:14Ryan
39:14and, like, starting offense for starting defense.
39:17Yeah, you don't see that anymore.
39:18No.
39:19It was the –
39:20You don't see goal line.
39:21It was the afternoon practice where they were getting after it because it's hot.
39:24It's crazy.
39:25Rex brings out the Terminator on the goal line.
39:27Yeah.
39:29Rex used to love to do nine-on-seven.
39:32Yes.
39:32Nine-on-defense, seven-on-offense.
39:34Yeah.
39:35Like, and do the running stuff.
39:36Like, they would do nine-on-seven drills, and those don't exist anymore.
39:41Yeah.
39:41Too bad.
39:42Too bad.
39:42Two-a-days were great, man.
39:43They were horrible for us as athletes, but they were fun to follow, though, too.
39:47I think the NFL may have gone just a little too far legislating these practices.
39:51Give these guys a little bit more.
39:53Injuries happen either way.
39:53Yeah.
39:53That's all it really is.
39:54Maybe they'll get a little thicker skin if they play a little.
39:57A little more.
39:58Guys, we appreciate you, as always, for hopping on here, giving you your analysis.
40:01We're looking forward to catching up with you next week, man.
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