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00:06Dragon's Den is open for business I don't often say this but your pitch was awful you've got to
00:13be quiet for this a little bit Peter if that's all right ouch a place where budding entrepreneurs
00:18are given a once-in-a-lifetime chance you have this most bizarre way of answering questions
00:27to present their wares to five captains of Commerce you wanted to see how credible we
00:33are so I'm about to show you show me some will succeed and go on to make millions others will
00:43fail and leave with nothing making the counter for tell him to shove it where the sun doesn't shine
00:48the hunt is on to find the next big money-making idea dragons are go tonight come on we've got
00:58a job to do
00:58here it's business as usual I mean I decided quite a while ago that I that I wasn't going to
01:05make you
01:05an offer oh here she comes I see why you were answering that question if I were sat there I'd
01:10be asking the exact same question no because you look like a rabbit caught in the headlights and
01:13later on Gary welcome back mate how you feeling not sure an old friend will be dropping by you are
01:20absolutely incredible you're a class act and you're getting emotional as well which has just pushed me
01:24over the edge you're ready to slay some dragons pen hi I'm Richard I'm from Sheffield and I'm here
01:42to show the dragons a product that I've created because of my love for penny the dog which dragon do
01:49you fancy eating for tea what do you think I'd like to think that I know my business inside out
01:54so I'm
01:55not worried about any questions the main thing that could go wrong is penny I hope she doesn't growl the
02:03dragons I hope she doesn't do a nervous poo I really just hope that she she performs and that will
02:11help
02:11me relax and perform as well don't be scared it's okay
02:18going in
02:24sit sit
02:29hi dragons I'm Richard and this is penny chief taster and inspiration behind Parklife Parklife
02:37offer a range of delicious and playful treats for dogs with a happy belly promise which means
02:42they're always a hundred percent natural grain free and have absolutely no hidden junk the range includes
02:48frisbix a unique frisbee shaped biscuit ideal for throwing catching and playful snacking in in addition
02:56to that we also have chill bix calming biscuits with honey and caramel and love bix and the seasonal range
03:02which all feature our ever popular grumpy pug to date we have sold over 300,000 units and in the
03:10next 12 months we expect sales of 1.5 million pounds we've sold in over 3,000 distribution points across
03:18various points in the year and we're in discussions with a number of leading pet and grocery retailers
03:23to help grow this bricks and mortar distribution even further so that's okay penny you take a load off
03:30good girl I'll join you in a minute um has penny had the chill bix she has um in addition
03:40to these
03:41recent wins in bricks and mortar stores we also have a blossoming online business it's for those
03:46reasons I'm here looking for an investment of 150,000 pounds in exchange for a five percent stake in the
03:57business that's a lot of bix you've got lots of exciting stuff underneath those blankets next to
04:02you but you'll also find a frisbic so I'd love for you guys to have the opportunity to throw a
04:07frisbic
04:07for penny and see if she can catch it but first you need to get out penny come on penny
04:10a range of
04:12healthy treats for dogs is the proposition for an entrepreneur and canine lover richard marls come on
04:20we've got a job to do here oh so close richard is seeking 150,000 pounds ready in exchange for
04:32just
04:32five percent of his business hey sugar this way the inspiration behind Richard's product may be going
04:53well Richard I've never seen a dog so happy to be in the den I might be connected to your
05:00biscuits I
05:01think possibly um right so so um this is quite a crowded space there's lots of choice if I go
05:08in and
05:08try and buy dog biscuits or dog treats of any kind loads of stuff look at in a nutshell why
05:14is yours
05:14better or different I think there's two sides to that from a functional perspective everything we do
05:20is grain free but then we wrap that in a brand that is fun and playful and people have an
05:26emotional
05:27connection with okay so how long have you been going so the company was established in 2019 but the
05:34business only really got started in 2022 when we launched the biscuits great okay and what's the
05:40turnover been since 22 and 23 so my financial years end in in October randomly but in in October 2021
05:48which was a half year we did um 46,000 pounds the next financial year was 182,000 pounds we've
05:58not
05:58published our next set of accounts but if you take the last 12 months from now we've done
06:03six hundred thousand pounds so profit are you making any money we will be um the first two
06:10years that where I gave the sales number the gross profit was quite low around five percent first year
06:16we broke even second year was a fifty thousand pound loss and but since then our gross profit has
06:23increased around 20 percent and we have plans to bring that up to 30 percent Richard um on first first
06:33look I mean firstly the presentation brilliant it's always it's a bit like when people bring a child
06:38into the den you go oh it's yeah but when you bring a dog into the den as well it's
06:42great but just hearing
06:44your numbers that you've just given to Deborah and then looking at your ask your valuation working that
06:52out is nearly 20 times prior year's revenue I just I don't normally get completely sideswept by value so
07:05quickly but how on earth do you even come up with a evaluation that could go anywhere near three million
07:13pounds for this business I want to know whether you've been eating too many of your own doggy biscuits
07:18I maybe need some chill bix to calm me down um no I genuinely I see why you would answer
07:23that
07:24question if I were sat there I'd be asking the exact same question no I know you look like a
07:27rabbit
07:28caught in headlights with that question genuinely it's based on the growth of the business so what's
07:33your forecast for this year so about 1.5 million okay but when people turn around and say do you
07:41know
07:41what I'm coming in and asking for money based on growth that hasn't been achieved yet and I
07:47want you to invest today that's not real is it it is when I've got orders for 1.2 of
07:52that 1.5
07:52million but that's still three times revenue but actually it's two times revenue and I still
07:58outrageous I can see how you can feel it's difficult it's just I I know the business inside out and
08:05I
08:05have confidence I can deliver those numbers no I believe it what I'm saying is that even delivering
08:09those numbers doesn't give you the valuation um you guys have seen so many more business and have
08:15more expertise in valuing companies but I believe it's a fair valuation Richard um who's your biggest
08:25customer uh Lidl and how much do they account for um in the in the current year forecast yeah probably
08:35about 70 percent of those sales how much about 70 percent 70 yeah so apart from Lidl who else you're
08:42working with Aldi what does Aldi account for probably about 20 percent so we're up to 90 percent now can
08:51I
08:51make a point though that's because I've literally launched in a multiple different retailers very
08:58recently so if you annualize that out the balance is all going to change but Richard I've got to look
09:03at
09:03the risk yeah not only have you come in here with a ballooned up valuation you've got two customers
09:11if you lose Lidl and Aldi overnight completely you'll have no business yeah you could say that to a lot
09:19of
09:19people that have successful businesses that tell them they learn Aldi great response
09:27Richard you've done a fantastic job of taking this where it is today a really really fantastic job
09:32in your pitch you said you were planning to expand into online do you have a plan for the online
09:37business
09:37yeah at the moment like I am literally a one-man band and I can't do everything but with the
09:43right
09:43amount of focus I think that the online platform has got great potential I just need to create the
09:49right content and put it out there to the right audience and get the right return on investment
09:53super easy that's why it's a tough bit it's been on the too hard to do pile you'd be great
09:58at it
09:58like you know yeah but you know what when I look at this I go I know why people are
10:02buying this because
10:03I'll be honest when I buy pet treats for my dog it's a fairly quick decision based on honestly the
10:09box people are much more considered I believe when they're making an online purchase in this
10:14category than they are walking through an aisle seeing one of three options and going that box
10:18that out the most looks the most funny I'll take that yeah and that's why it's quite difficult to sell
10:23this category of product online for me personally I can't see the the online business here and so for
10:33that reason I'm gonna say that I'm out so I think you're really good um thank you and you've stood
10:42up to some really um sometimes sidewinders you know but you you but you've stood your ground you can
10:51feel like you get it you understand it but you've asked for 150,000 pounds and you've asked for it
10:57you've
10:57got a very very hefty evaluation uh and that's kind of I'm sitting here thinking it needed something
11:03a little more bang about it so um disappointingly I I don't feel and if I don't I really shouldn't
11:16invest
11:17so I'm afraid I'm out Richard the way you have held yourself in this situation I would absolutely
11:28back you in a in a business in this industry my concern I've got is this business and I think
11:37there's some good stuff going on but I don't think it's enough to get me over the line so it's
11:43with a
11:44heavy heart I say really sorry but I'm out Richard I can't agree with what's been said more it's
11:53gonna this is really you are so early stage it is very early to to value a business that's totally
12:00unproven you've got some really good ideas and I hope that those ideas come to fruition but the only
12:08chance you've got for those to come to fruition is if you have somebody like me to invest in you
12:13otherwise I don't think you've got much chance so I'm gonna make you an offer
12:24okay I'm gonna offer you all of the money 150,000 pounds
12:29but I want 30% of the business okay and I'm also willing to share that
12:37because I think that sometimes two dragons are better than one and Tuca has some pretty legendary
12:46contacts where this will be ranged faster than you'll be able to eat your own biscuit
12:55Richard I mean I'm sitting on the fence here knowing full well you have an offer
13:04I know what I can bring to the party and I would say this I would say I'd want to
13:10go in
13:10but half the money up for 20% knock it down to 15% when I get my money back
13:16within 18 months
13:18and would Peter match that offer the 20% each
13:24oh yeah
13:25drop it down to 15% better than where he's at yeah yeah of course you would
13:29of course you would be way better off yeah but that's kind of like a no-brainer
13:38okay I think I should take a few minutes if that's okay I think you should yeah right
13:45it's not Richard has earned himself two offers a solo offer from Peter Jones at 30% I like him
13:53yeah he's great as well as a combined bid with Tuca Suleiman at 40% that's eight times the
14:01five percent that was originally on the table I came in here with the thought of two dragons
14:11being better than one but unfortunately I just can't afford to give away that amount of the
14:18business you're sticking to your valuation I'm sticking to my valuation there was some wiggle room
14:24in there but it what you've offered is just giving away way too much so for that reason I'm out
14:38I want to invest in you just for that reason there
14:45Richard you can just go now thank you thank you very much
14:48thank you the pet food entrepreneur departs the den without a deal
14:58but by stealing the dragon's most famous line Richard has ensured that it's the tail that's
15:05wagging the dog well that that really does take the biscuit I went in there expecting them to haggle
15:12so I did value it probably slightly higher than I would expect but to ask for that amount of the
15:19business was miles away unfortunately it wasn't meant to be
15:33hi I'm Daniel I'm 35 I'm from Slovakia and we are going to shake up the drinks industry
15:40would you like some it's alcohol free I believe it's needed
15:47I am very excited about this one let's just say very excited what's the jerry can do you think
15:52though that's how Sarah buys her cocktails yeah takes them up to the filling station
16:13hi my name is Daniel I'm managing director and founder of me teeny after working many years in
16:21hospitality and event industry around the world seeing the waste generated after each shift not to
16:27mention the carbon emissions from unnecessary and excessive equipment and processes I start
16:33thinking there must be a better way how to make delicious drinks and serve them without harm to our
16:39planet I came up with an idea to build a bar into electric cargo bicycle like this one we can
16:45cycle up to
16:4630 miles serve up to 200 cocktails either on Sunday market festivals private or corporate events
16:54after a few weeks of operations we realized that the weight of the glass bottles is slowing us down not
16:59to mention the hustle with disposal of the dozens of bottles after each day so we start making our own
17:06spirits and liquors currently we have range of 17 products which 13 are certified organic we are currently
17:13using those spirits and liquors to make our own cocktails and we are starting to offer them to other bars
17:18and
17:18restaurants and caterers in five liter refillable containers or 200 liter barrels we are also
17:25offering our bottled products into small independent stores and we would like to approach the larger
17:31retailers however in order to deliver orders of this size we would need to scale up our operations
17:37that's why we are looking today for 75 000 pounds investment in exchange for 15 of the equity
17:45an eco-conscious drinks business is the brainchild of daniel weissaville wheat straw he's asking for 75 000
17:54pounds in exchange for 15 of the company not too strong it's negroni it should be i know what you're
18:05doing you're getting all the dragons it's a good ploy you see yeah i mean i'm trying my best all
18:12the dragons
18:13have been well served
18:18now peter jones wants to know if daniel has a winning blend of a business
18:26daniel yes i really like that thank you tell me about that how have you created that is that
18:32so the bottle is that just a cover or so there is a inside plastic lining which has additives
18:39if it ends up in a landfill it helps it biodegrades but it should be recycled by default so just
18:45to get
18:46this right you've created your own product yes and on top of that though it came out of the back
18:52of a
18:54electric bike yes that you were going around serving drinks so it's electric bar yes so we have three
19:01cargo bicycles currently okay and is your business model then you want to go and introduce these
19:07products yes into the mainstream and start selling them yes so every festival or sunday market we go to
19:15we basically also activate our brand for the spirits and that was what i was going to ask what is
19:20the brand
19:21so for spirits is we are spirits because we are spirits yes okay that's your brand we are all the
19:30spirits yes so uh we we try to make everything that people should have behind the bar in the restaurants
19:36or at your home okay and you've been doing this for how long you start years two years over two
19:44years
19:44just give me the last 12 months what have you generated in an income so for the last year we
19:50had 160 000 pounds in revenue well with 57 000 gross profit with 4 000 net profit daniel where does
20:00this
20:00sell does it sell just from the bike or does it sell somewhere else we have a website uh where
20:06we sell it
20:07from and how what percentage of your sales come from selling on your website we literally just sold few
20:12bottles over the last four weeks i'm not surprised i'm not surprised because you have no brand we are
20:21spirits as a brand i mean these labels look like they've been produced by a printer from 1998.
20:31that was the field that we were going oh you were going for that yeah back to the basics we
20:36just offset
20:37print we stamped the label on sustainable paper and we put it on the bottle so no electricity no
20:42printers are involved this market is so tough and the alcohol market is so tough it's incredibly
20:48saturated it's hard to get on shelves so having a really really clear brand message i think is
20:53paramount to success in this space and i don't see clarity in the brand here i actually disagree
20:58with that daniel you look you like that sarah please tell me on national television you like
21:04that branding sarah stephen bartlett i like that branding because you are all about sustainability
21:10and i can pick this up and what all of these have in common is they all say sustainability in
21:15the
21:15branding yeah they're not telling the truth though oh here she comes this disappoints me i didn't
21:22realize there's plastic inside that what makes it more difficult to recycle when you join two different
21:29materials together so you've taken a plastic bottle that could have been recycled and you've covered it
21:35in cardboard daniel look i don't normally try any drinks here normally my taster on my left she's my
21:44taster i give her my portions and then she reports back to me it's a good setup however today i
21:50did try
21:50your organic coffee liqueur yes excellent thank you not that i drink it but it was good for my palate
21:57thank you now how are you going to convince me to part with 75 000 pounds if you've never made
22:06any
22:06money so we are in the second year of operation and we already made a profit
22:12made a profit where four thousand yes i mean you know breaking even you pay yourself
22:18just expenses so if you had to pay yourself a salary you lose money that's true okay carry on yeah
22:23so we
22:24think the organic market in uk is fast growing and there is a gap with organic spirits especially
22:31so today you get 75 000 for me what would the next year look like so next year based on
22:39the the current
22:40yearly sales of organic spirits liquors and yours here not mine in in uk yeah last year was 130 million
22:49pounds so we believe that we can take quite a few percent of that market few percent yes
23:02um i'm not entirely convinced that that's a big enough market or that how much the consumer cares
23:07about their spirits being organic even if 130 million in sales are from the organic alcohols it
23:12doesn't necessarily mean they're making their purchase decision based on the fact it's organic
23:15but then even if i if i believe that organic spirits are going to become culturally relevant
23:22in any sense do i believe that this is going to be the surfboard that's going to ride that wave
23:27into
23:27shore i don't because it falls down on the branding so i'm going to say that i'm out thank you
23:36thank you
23:36daniel um so so the model i mean i'm not even going to talk about the branding because you you've
23:42heard
23:42too much right yeah but i'm talking about the business model have your six star drinks that's it
23:50less is more unfortunately for me there's too much going on here to actually get my head around it
23:57i can't invest them out thank you
24:02daniel i think you've come with good intentions and i think you've created something
24:08you you've turned over 160 000 and i can tell you that
24:13in the den there have been investments on businesses that have turned over 40 or 50 000.
24:17so i think that there is credit where it's due i love what you've done here actually and i think
24:21we've
24:22missed this is the fact that you have created a nice bar out of an electric bike that's that's
24:30not something you can go and buy you've i think you've built that with your hands haven't you yes
24:34i would look to grow that and build the community it's not an investment today i'm going to say that
24:39i'm out but i wish you the best of luck okay thank you daniel yeah i see a lot of
24:46potential in this
24:46business you clearly have a very strong set of values that you've built the business on and that
24:53came across loud and clear in your pitch that's fabulous what you can't do is compromise that value
24:59set at any turn all your other products are in glass bottles this one is a disaster it is a
25:08disaster
25:08when it comes to the values be consistent in what you do do not compromise it at any level because
25:14this
25:14consumer will not tolerate that and i'm really surprised based on what i've seen of you that
25:19you would compromise it for something like this so i'm going to say that i'm out but please take
25:26on board the learnings you've had today thank you thank you daniel very very dear friend of mine who's
25:32no longer with us started something called sky vodka and he got on a bicycle and he went around to
25:40a
25:40load of bars and he gave them some bottles and said stop my you are try it tell me what
25:46you think
25:47because you've got a story behind what you do present yourself with your product and tell your
25:53story get it into some bars maurice became a millionaire and he started on the back of a bicycle
26:00with a few bottles of vodkas yeah be nice to think that'd be you next but i'm afraid right now
26:08it
26:08hasn't taken shape so i won't be investing i'm out thank you thank you thank you all the best thank
26:16you thank you the dragons call time on daniel's pitch and he leaves the den without the investment
26:24he was looking for little seed of an idea here hasn't he a lot of entrepreneurs want to run before
26:29they can walk you know it's it's all good i got some positive feedback from them so i know what
26:36i should
26:36do i will take some of their advice on consideration of course let's see what comes up next
26:59hi i'm jane and i'm marty and we're both from winchester yeah today we're taking a business into the den
27:07that is all about my experience of caring for my mum and dad who have dementia
27:16breathe breathe all right give me a minute give me a minute i think they'd be really proud of what
27:20what we've done um i just want to do a good job god i hope this doesn't happen in the
27:31den
27:34also hoping for a good performance is gary neville who'll be joining the dragons for the rest of the
27:40evening gary welcome back mate how you feeling i must have done all right on the first one i think
27:44you
27:44did i think you did but i think it's going to get a little bit hotter in the den this
27:48time around so
27:48you ready i'm not sure
27:59hi i'm jane and i'm marty and we're the founders of sibstar and today we're really happy to offer you
28:04five percent of our business for 125 000 pounds both my parents are living with dementia and it's
28:10through caring for them that we came up with the idea for sibstar as my mum's condition progressed
28:16she really struggled to understand her everyday money she lost thousands to scammers over the phone
28:20and then mum would massively overspend on things she didn't need or couldn't afford like luxury skin
28:25care so to protect mum we eventually had to take away access to her own money which meant she couldn't
28:32live independently anymore so we thought there had to be a better way so we created sibstar the first
28:37ever debit card an app for families living with dementia the person with dementia has the card
28:43which is loaded with money their caregiver has the app on their phone and it's from within this app that
28:49they can manage how and where that money is spent for this we charge 4.99 monthly subscription and 4
28:56.99 setup fee
28:58we launched in march this year and we have a hundred happy customers and we are really proud to be
29:03partnered with the alzheimer's society and mastercard there are nearly one million people living with
29:08dementia in the uk today and 55 million people globally but we are more than a business striving to grow
29:14for profits alone we are here to help families like mine and now you have the rare opportunity to
29:20help us make a positive difference to millions of lives a finance card for families living with
29:27dementia is the offering of husband and wife team marty orton and jane sibley they're seeking 125 000
29:35pounds in return for five percent of their company deborah meaden wants to understand how the process really
29:42works oh i love that you've tackled this this is such an important thing to do can i can i
29:49understand the
29:51actual so what would actually happen how do i allow that person to still feel like they're making their
29:57own decisions because this i think is the really important thing isn't it that they still feel
30:01empowered as opposed to feeling like everything's taken off me it kind of makes it worse exactly
30:05exactly so this is your spending money all of your other direct debits your pension goes into your
30:12regular bank account this is your spending money for going out for coffees for buying your gifts for the
30:16grandkids and how much money do you need each day so within that you can set how much money can
30:21be
30:21spent each month each day and how much money can be taken out the cash point do you get notifications
30:27so when you know when the spend is happening do you because i guess that's where you need to interact
30:31don't you i need the i need to know now not when the money's already gone this is so important
30:36so
30:36every time the card is used uh so me as the daughter would receive a notification onto my phone
30:41and this allows families to keep an eye on their loved one without being really interfering and
30:46overbearing so how does this card interact with the finance providers so we work with an issuing
30:54partner who is regulated by the fca and what are those costs attached to that so you're charging 4.99
31:00a month what are the costs attached to that the fixed cost per month of servicing that customer is
31:06one pound 70. and that's the cost of working with your partner or that's all of the costs attached to
31:11that's all of the fixed cost of all of the costs thank you martin and jane um when you compare
31:17this
31:17to other prepaid cards what is unique about it because there are a lot of prepaid cards out there
31:23yeah so the internals of the app once the person with dementia is onboarded is not really unique because
31:31as you say that happens in kids cards and in all sorts of places the really unique and
31:35innovative part of our business is the onboarding process so being able to onboard two people with
31:41lasting power of attorney we could have launched this product um without having that piece in place
31:47but we knew that that was going to be really valuable to these families so we waited and we developed
31:53it
31:53and launched with that um we take that lasting power of attorney and we make sure that the donor and
32:01the attorney on that document are the same people that are applying for the sib star card and supporter
32:06but we go one step further and verify that with the office of public guardianship so we have them say
32:12yeah these this is legitimate this is a valid lasting power of attorney off you go so we're doing that
32:17extra step to safeguard our customers i'm trying to understand what's complicated about doing it well
32:23we can't tell you because we'd have to kill you no no but if you just have and send that
32:29lasting power
32:30of attorney to the bank you have the same solution you have access to the same solution you have access
32:36to the account but you don't that takes away people's money that doesn't give you the ability to
32:44have the person with dementia still using the card because a lot of what happens at that point is the
32:48access to their money gets taken away because no one actually does a card that can be given to the
32:52person with dementia and the lasting power of attorney as well so how many people if you were
32:57to pick like a lasting power of attorney what's the opportunity size in the uk alone for that exact
33:04circumstance so 75 of our customers already have lasting power of attorneys in place uh there's a
33:11million people living with diagnosed people with uh dementia in the uk today the actual figure is
33:17expected to be much much higher and then what's the time period because obviously sadly
33:22obviously which i didn't want to focus on because i know that's a difficult so in our projections
33:27we've estimated that a customer will be with us for two years two okay um and we think that is
33:34a
33:34conservative estimation because really it's about getting customers earlier because i think a lot of
33:40customers are finding us at the moment because they're in panic mode this is happening we've got to
33:44solve it but actually if you get those customers a lot earlier they can then benefit from it without
33:49starting off the problems so what is the cost of acquisition per customer 65 pounds per person
33:55so it's going to cost you 65 pounds to onboard that customer that customer is going to generate 38
34:03pounds 40 for you a year because at the moment you're charging 4.99 less your 170 cost
34:11it's three pounds twenty three pound twenty twelve month 38.40 in real terms
34:15your average life cycle of the customer is two years for that specific model you make no money at all
34:22how many customers and what's your plan over the next three years so i can get an understanding of
34:26how big this can be year one four thousand customers year two eight thousand customers
34:33year three three twenty thousand customers so if i pick year three twenty thousand
34:38what's the profit in year three you think this business is going to generate okay because we need
34:43investment the first three years are actually making a loss but the fourth year is making a profit
34:48seven hundred thousand based on fifty thousand users martin jane you we're talking about technology
34:57here so did was there quite a significant upfront cash outlay to get this going and to do the testing
35:01and build the app we chose to go fairly cheap and fast to prove the product market fit because
35:09nothing like this has been done before so we chose that and we're hoping to develop further
35:15as we go along now we've proven that does the business currently have any investors so we've
35:20had friend friends invest and we've had a entrepreneur and he's invested at the same
35:26valuation that we're giving you and how much did he invest a hundred thousand for four percent
35:33i love the fact that you've set up this business from a personal story um and the sport that i
35:40played has had horrendous problems with dementia i actually donated 50 of the profits of my media
35:47platform to the alzheimer's society last year so i've got a personal interest in this from my background
35:53in football i'm encouraged that you've been able to bring in partners what is it that a dragon can bring
35:59that those partners can't already visibility um championing our values out there in the world
36:09so you're looking for business development and marketing basically is that what you
36:12is is that what you're saying yes network support expertise ambassador for what we're doing
36:20martin and jane um whenever i look at things i always say how do i get out before i get
36:25in
36:26so what's the exit here five to seven years we want to sell this business to who might be a
36:31bank
36:31might be a bank this is the thing that i have an issue and that is that would a bank
36:36really buy at
36:37sibstar as a brand or would they just do this themselves at some point so i'm not going to see
36:46that this is an investment where i can make any return on investment so for that reason i'm out
36:51but i don't want you to stop this journey and i really massive green tick so well done thank you
36:59i think you're going to succeed in what you're doing because i look at this business and i think that
37:06you've translated pain into purpose and that pain is the most potent petrol on the planet
37:11for an entrepreneur so there's no chance you're going to give up no i can see it in every word
37:16you say
37:17so i know where you're going but the question as an investor becomes is that place a a place where
37:22i can get a return on my investment or would i be doing getting involved in this business because my
37:27heart is so captivated by your story and the story of millions of others like you that are suffering
37:31and that's the question i weigh upon and there's part of me that wants to make a donation but i'm
37:36here
37:36to invest and that's not the right reasons for me to make an investment into a company
37:42so i'm going to say that i'm out but i wish you the very best thank you jane and martin
37:47um you've done
37:49incredibly well you know identifying a gap in the market however as an investable business when you
37:56when you're telling me well tukey you might get your money back in three or four years time
38:02we're talking about getting my money back not even a return on my investment
38:07so for that reason i'm out can i tell you where i'm at yeah i mean i've got a great
38:17love of your
38:17story and i actually think you've got great partners on board already and i just worry as an investor what
38:23i would be able to personally bring to this particular company so for that reason i'm out
38:36if you get investment today how tightly are you tied to your current valuation has your investors
38:46four percent triggered or is it related to the investment that you get today his best valuation
38:54will be two and a half million but if we raise at a higher level than that he gets a
38:5720 discount
38:58and whatever valuation you raise out so you have some wriggle room yes
39:09i'm going to be quiet for a minute because apart from anything else i want to work out
39:13can i help you because that's the only reason you're standing here it actually isn't you can
39:19raise the money so you know i need to convince myself what can i do for you for a moment
39:27i feel like i want to say on behalf of the million families out there living with this
39:31a massive thank you because i can remember watching my mom and her siblings go through exactly this
39:38about 10 years ago and fighting so hard to give my nana independence and not being able to and i
39:45just
39:45think it's wrong that all of the banks aren't tackling this but it's great that you have done that
39:50thank you totally take my hand off um i mean i mean it does i'm not gonna lie it feels
39:57like a very
39:58high-risk business and a business that i know very little about in terms of the banking sector
40:06oddly enough that's the bit that i i'm quite happy i could add value on oh the other stuff that
40:14you
40:14talked about the advocacy and that i think you you need people who totally get the mission that you're
40:21on yeah we do yeah um so i'm willing to make you an offer um i will offer you all
40:31of the money for
40:32the five percent that you asked plus five percent advisory shares that feels like a valuation that
40:39match the risk profile and i'm trying to find a way that might be workable for you in your structure
40:47or or i would be willing to split that deal on exactly the same basis if you had any other
40:54dragon
40:55interested as well so the bit that i can add is that i know a lot of the ceos of
41:03the banks that
41:04you're probably talking to so i'm not saying listen i can't tell you they're going to adopt you nobody can
41:09what i can do is say i can get you in front of talking to the right people to see
41:14whether or not
41:14there's something a partnership that could be had there i mean you know between us i'm sure sarah
41:20and i could tell the story sarah can tell it personally you know so i think it could be a
41:24really good partnership so i'm willing to offer you half of the money so that is 62 and a half
41:31thousand
41:31four five percent of the business and we can work out the specifics on how much of advisory
41:37and how much after we get to the final amount thank you we'd absolutely love to take your off
41:43oh excellent oh good excellent job brilliant jane and marty leave the den with a 125 000
41:52investment thank you thank you good luck thanks everyone and a valuable pair of dragons that could
41:59help their life-changing company to grow did you see the hug yeah do you know what gary that is
42:09the
42:09best part of this job and seeing what it means to people yeah well done well i'm just so pleased
42:25so pleased that um sarah and deborah invested you know it's amazing it's really such a great opportunity
42:32i just feel really emotional but really happy as well
42:41do you know what yes please i'm lottie i'm 34 and i'm from london i'm joe and i'm also 34
42:52from london
42:53i think it's a real strength that we're sharing this business together as husband and wife
42:57oh you've got something in your teeth oh my god it's right in there so i'm a bit of the
43:04mad um
43:05inventor and lottie is great keeps it all together yeah keeps it together the actual business
43:11we've got a game plan it is that i will answer all of the numbers questions joe will take all
43:15of the
43:15products questions fingers crossed we we stick to plan and no little barney's in the den yeah
43:22oh it's a one of them um ice baths ice baths these two these are all recovery stuff recovery
43:28muscle recovery you'll know about this yeah i spent my life on these things there we go
43:42hi dragons it's great to meet you i'm lottie and this is my co-founder joe and together we started
43:48my master we're here today to ask for a hundred thousand pounds and of course your expertise in
43:55exchange for a five percent stake in our business picture this i'm living out my childhood dream of
44:01playing professional rugby for harlequins but i'm sidelined yet again with another injury so i
44:06decided to dismantle a jigsaw weld a stool leg on the end and i start using it around my achilles
44:10and i'm blown away with how it alleviates the pain the changing room erupts with laughter
44:15as you could probably imagine until the lads start using it for themselves before i know it
44:20they're pulling cash out of their wallets asking me to build them one and by the end of the day
44:24i'd
44:24sold seven there are two billion people in the world right now suffering with muscle and joint issues
44:30so it's no surprise that the recovery market is scaling rapidly so what are we doing about it well
44:36we're building my master the home of sports recovery over the past two years we've set about
44:42developing our incredible range of recovery tech from percussive massages that are amazing for
44:47alleviating pain and mobility we have compression boots which are perfect for post exercise we have
44:53our cold water immersion range and our cbd muscle and joint balm everyday athletes love our products
44:59but so do some of the most elite sports teams in the world we've had some really exciting traction
45:04today generating over 1.3 million pounds worth of sales in the last 24 months we're not stopping
45:10there continuing to innovate we're currently building the physio in your pocket software
45:15that will connect your workout tracker to give you guided recovery based on the exercise that you've
45:19just done excitingly we've just been backed by google google have a fund called the black founders fund
45:26and they look at 4 000 people i think applied for it this year which we were one um they
45:31describe it
45:32their words not mine as what the most exceptional black led tech startups across europe and africa and they
45:39selected 40 out of those uh 4 000 of which my master was one so what's not to love dragons
45:45thank you
45:46so much for listening we can't wait for you to come and try our products and i get in the
45:51bath yeah give
45:53the back a go a grant-backed business selling a range of sports recovery equipment and an app
45:59is the offering of joe gray and lotte white wow it's big enough for me what it's currently doing is
46:05it's
46:05blowing up from your foot to your calf to your knee to your quad it'll flush out the blood what
46:09you'll
46:09then get is fresh oxygenated blood that'll flush back into the muscle so that helps um rejuvenate
46:14your legs post-exercise they're asking for a hundred thousand pounds in return for five percent of the
46:20company so i was i was sat in one of these about two weeks ago at soccer aid right it
46:26was basically a
46:27group of people who shouldn't have been playing with elite athletes yeah exactly steven bartlett might not
46:33be up to gary neville's high standards but he has no fear of tackling lotte and joe's products head-on
46:43so there's i've got a few questions but the big thing here for me is i've been sent so many
46:49um
46:49massage guns like this that kind of look quite similar um from so many different brands and so
46:56and then with the ice ice bar thing i've looked at so many investments in this space because i'm
47:00really into the old hot and cold phenomenon at the moment that i actually can't remember the name of
47:04them anymore and that for me is a real kind of threat to this business over the long term that
47:08there's going to be so much there already is so many brands in this space what's your big point of
47:12difference so i'd say there's a couple couple of key points so um we've developed our products to be
47:18unique in certain areas but also our customer and our community base um love that this company is
47:24actually created and designed by a former elite athlete can i just make a point on that yeah
47:30because i mean i was an elite athlete and there's nothing different here than i saw 15 years ago
47:36in a club that invested heavily in world-class recovery products but what i want to ask you is
47:43what is it that google helped with that was innovative uh great question so what google helped
47:48in is us building the software that will connect to your workout tracker it will say okay you've just
47:53done park run 5k on a saturday and you can log on to your app and it'll go okay look
47:58i've got 10
47:59minutes to do my recovery it will take you through guided program and in exactly what stretches you
48:04should do and it will also give the ability to use our products to help you with that recovery okay
48:10you see i'm interested in that how much of that currently is your business compared to the actual
48:18product which i think is something that's being sold regularly by other brands yeah so um we forecast
48:26that it will make up 40 to 50 percent we're in the process of building the technology that's exactly why
48:32we haven't built it yet no so we're developing it at the moment seems like a much more interesting
48:37business because honestly i've seen all of this before and what i said at the start of this is these
48:42massage guns they send me this stuff all the time and it's just piling up in my house with all
48:49due
48:49respect you're not our core customer to be honest with you like our core customer isn't getting sent
48:54free therapy they're people who love sport but they're not though they they love running they go to
48:59park run they sign up for 10k runs we meet thousands and thousands of them
49:05let me understand the business now turnover 1.3 million so far you should be pretty proud of
49:11that thank you profit yeah so in 2021 we generated revenue of 216 000 with a net loss of 153
49:19for the full year of 2022 we generated net revenue of 599 000 with a loss of 95 000 and
49:28year to date
49:28we've generated 502 000 with a net profit of 48 000 so 100 year on year growth year to date
49:35so that's
49:35really powerful i mean for you that's really good news for you that's brilliant lottie joe you talk very
49:42well however let's get back to reality at the end of the day what you haven't said you'll get your
49:51money
49:51back in at x time and you'll get x times your investment in x in x period and that's why
49:58we're
49:59investable i'm glad you said all of those things because we prepared for those questions well why
50:04are you glad that's reality we're ready and you wanted to see how credible we are so i'm about to
50:09show you well show me so our forecast is that in in seven years time how much in seven seven
50:17years time
50:17you've got to wait seven years too oh my god seven years time can i finish is that okay
50:24sorry carry on yeah in six or seven years time we want 250 000 athletes to be spending 250 pounds
50:31a
50:31year with us yeah and then we get to around 60 million of revenue and currently in our space um
50:40you are rubbing your glass but what i think no we're standing here before you
50:44and we got to profitability within 18 months and we're selling these products because we are
50:49building an incredible community when do we they trust when do i get my money back i think the ultimate
50:53exit for this business will be in six years but of course there'll be opportunities to make your
50:57money back through the great amounts of profit that we're making i'm not looking for 70 years down the
51:02road yeah three years i could live with five seven years so for that reason i'm out
51:13so my heart's breaking i'm gonna tell you why because i love you guys that's where i'm like
51:17squirming in my chair i'm looking for something i'm like these are the founders that we come to
51:22dragon's den and sit in these chairs to invest in but then i look over here and i don't see
51:26i don't see
51:26innovation i'm being honest i think this business is predicated on the fact that you are exceptional
51:33well thank you for saying all of those things i think um you're gonna flip it now and say that
51:38that was what i just said was a good thing right yeah yeah you're a master yeah because i think
51:42you know i hope we stand before you as people who built something from our kitchen table
51:46so i think you should say i know what these two are going to do next is going to be
51:49exceptional and
51:50we should buy them i i i think i'm in love with you but i'm not in love with the
52:02business
52:03so i'm gonna say that i'm out okay thank you
52:09i think you've picked a market that is packed and busy and competitive you've not got your
52:20technology player way yet and it's not been designed
52:25but joe i i think i like your story thank you and lotter you are unbelievable
52:32thank you she is you are absolutely incredible you're a class act and i've never met anybody
52:39under interrogation and you're getting emotional as well which has just pushed me over the edge
52:43never make an emotional investment
52:49so yeah i will offer you half the money
52:56for five percent but i would want another dragon in with me
53:02thank you very much
53:07um there's a lot there is a lot here
53:12i think i can really unlock this in a major way for you
53:17so i am going to make you an offer so my offer comes at a slight cost i'm going to
53:24offer you all
53:25of the money a hundred thousand but i want twenty percent however if i get back my hundred thousand in
53:34the first 12 months of working with you i will drop down to ten percent
53:44what a business survives on is good people and um you've been absolutely faultless and you've come
53:54under a lot of questioning and i just i couldn't miss an opportunity of working with you because i i
54:00just you know i could see it could be really exciting thank you so i i'm going to make you
54:07an offer
54:09and i'm going to offer you all of the money
54:14for ten percent of the business thank you thank you very much
54:20i mean i decided quite a while ago that i that i wasn't going to make you an offer that
54:23i didn't
54:24want to invest because i didn't know the business it wasn't something that was setting my world on fire
54:28yeah yeah but the more you talked honestly i i can't even tell you the impact that that has had
54:38and i actually think you'll win at this business i know it's a crowded space i know there are a
54:43lot
54:43of other players but you are clearly great at product and at building community it's exactly what
54:49i've done in my business yeah and backing another strong woman like you are is just you don't get
54:55chances to do that very many times in your life you really don't so i would offer you all of
55:01the
55:01money all 100 000 for 10 percent reducing to the five percent you're asking for if i get my money
55:11returned within 12 months fantastic thank you very much thank you very much we just have two minutes
55:19yes thank you thank you guys a collection of offers for lotty and joe peter jones wants 20
55:27reducing by half when he gets his money back whilst deborah meaden would like a straight 10.
55:33i just think uh combination with maybe peter and gary it's just too high though sarah davies has also
55:42asked for 10 percent with a ratchet deal that would see her dropped of the couple's original offer of
55:47five and gary neville has bid half the money for five percent and proposed a collaboration with another
56:08dragon thank you so much for all of your offers um and for your feedback um we wanted to just
56:15clarify
56:16that you said you would reduce to five percent if we were able to pay the money back i did
56:20i was the
56:20only one sitting here who respected your original ask thank you just for clarity we wanted to ask
56:28if you would consider coming in with uh gary i would love to work with gary and he has a
56:33lot more
56:34knowledge in this market than i do so if i get my money back in 12 months we go down
56:39to two and a half
56:39five percent yeah i'm happy come on jr guys before anyone changes the mind thank you so much
56:50thank you thank you thank you thank you successful lotty and joe well done who leave the den
56:59thank you guys thank you with the hundred thousand pounds they were seeking and a winning partnership
57:05in gary neville and sarah davies you're amazing oh my god that was so hard you were incredible like
57:16honestly you were you're amazing well done love you get in i've never met anyone like her in my life
57:25no no no we haven't had anyone like her in the dead well you're a great great amazing great thing
57:30good partnership on that one the combination of gary with his sports background and sarah she didn't
57:36question the business that we're building and she's done the same thing with her business in the same
57:40way so we felt the combination of those two things was really powerful and we're ready to rocket ship my
57:54master i'll bet you 50 quid that a goat doesn't come in next time on dragon's den
58:01show me the money do i pay you 125 000 pounds now yeah pretty much yeah they're selling tickets to
58:07the
58:07moon there are times where i sit here i want to be beamed up to the moon what could be
58:11appealing to
58:11you to get involved i would be looking to take 40 of the business vampire i heard that
58:44you