- 2 days ago
Alex Pavlovic, who covers the Giants for NBC Sports Bay Area, joins Willard and Dibs to discuss the Giants first half, the trade deadline, and more.
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00:00What is going to happen? Is there a reboot of the roster? Do they go young?
00:05And where does everybody stand on this whole thing?
00:08Willard and Dibbs, 95-7 the game. Let's get some answers from somebody who's on the inside,
00:14topped-in NBC Sports Bay Area. Our friend Alex Pavlovich is joining us here on the River Islands guest line.
00:19Hey, my man, how's the All-Star break going? How you doing?
00:23It's good. I want to push back. I think this has been a very interesting season.
00:27Not for the right reasons, but it's been extremely interesting.
00:31Okay, that's fair. Although, I would like to use a different ING word.
00:37And some people think that frustrating is interesting, but we can meet in the middle on that one.
00:43Dibbs and I were just sitting here talking about where this all goes from here.
00:48Let me just start with that question.
00:50What are the chances that the powers that be are still the powers that be next year?
00:57Buster Posey, Zach Manassi, and Tony Ditello?
01:02Oh, I think very high.
01:05You know, Buster, he's been here two years. I think he's learned a lot this year.
01:09I think he learned a lot from last offseason, but I don't know that he wants to just walk away.
01:14And his whole point when he took the job was to kind of stop what they felt was, I guess,
01:20stop the bleeding in a sense and turn things around.
01:23And I don't, you know, leave the organization in a good place.
01:26Like, I don't know what good it does to leave after two years and go like, oops, like,
01:312026 was really rough. It's somebody else's job now.
01:34And I think Tony's tied to him.
01:36And I also think, you know, I don't know that Tony had a great first half.
01:40I think he learned a lot as well.
01:41But they fired their last two managers.
01:43I would be stunned.
01:45I know national guys like to write about it.
01:48I would be stunned if there was anything close to that.
01:52They can't keep switching people out.
01:55They can't.
01:56But at the same time, if it is broke, then you kind of have to fix it.
02:00And it seems like this is currently broken.
02:02And I'm looking at the history of the San Francisco Giants.
02:05It's the only other time they had a one-and-done manager is when they lost 100 games.
02:10So if this devolves into that sort of territory, does it then become more likely?
02:18I still just don't think it's going to be likely at all.
02:20I mean, the main issue that they have is the bullpen.
02:24And I have questioned some of Tony's bullpen management at times.
02:27But he also wasn't given a good bullpen to work with.
02:31And, you know, I think it's not really fair to put all of that on him at the end of
02:35the year.
02:36And I'll just go back to, like, they look dysfunctional a little bit right now.
02:41You look extremely dysfunctional.
02:43If you fire Gabe Kapoor, you fire Farhan Zaidi, you fire Bob Melvin,
02:47and then you bring in Tony Vitello, and after, you know, 162 games,
02:51you decide we're going in a different direction.
02:52Like, I think at some point they need some stability here.
02:55And at some point they need to figure out what they can do behind the scenes,
02:59what they can do on the field.
03:01But I would hate if they would keep blaming it on the manager and on the coaches.
03:06I mean, they got rid of the hitting coach last year,
03:08got rid of the previous hitting coach.
03:10Pitching coach last year was gone.
03:12It's like, you know, at some point it's kind of on other people.
03:15Alex, I'm with you, although I'm curious your response to this.
03:19What have you viewed in terms of Tony Vitello and his appetite for all of this?
03:25I mean, he's wearing it sometimes, for sure.
03:30But what do you think is his appetite for what he's experienced so far
03:35and his desire to stay?
03:37Well, I think that's the real question.
03:39It's like, you know, Tony's looking at a team that's disappointed,
03:44a season that I think has not gone at all how he expected.
03:48It's been difficult on him.
03:49You can see it post-game.
03:50Like, I'm there every day, but if you watch the post-games,
03:53you can see, like, he's wearing this.
03:56I think he comes in every day with good energy.
03:58But this has been a surprise to him, I think.
04:00And, you know, I'd say the question is, like,
04:03does he look at what's going on here and look at the potential
04:06of not a whole lot of baseball early next year
04:08just because of a potential lockout and something like that
04:11and just go, hey, I can go back and dominate college.
04:13I don't think he will.
04:14I just, that to me is more of a question than, like, them making a change.
04:18I think this is going to be up to Tony.
04:20And I also don't think Tony's the type who would just walk away
04:23and just say, ah, I tried and I failed.
04:26I think he understands that he's doing something new.
04:29And he didn't ever set out to be a trailblazer,
04:32and he never uses that word.
04:34But he is trying to prove that this can work.
04:37And not just for him, but for every college coach behind him,
04:41it's a huge step back.
04:42It's after one year, he goes, I'm going back to wherever,
04:46somewhere in college.
04:47So I'd be surprised by that as well.
04:49What's the relationship been like between Tony and the players
04:53from spring training all the way through now?
04:56Has it evolved and improved,
04:57or is it still a little bit of a work in progress?
05:02I think it's fine.
05:03I mean, you know, it certainly is different
05:05than some other managers they've had.
05:06He's a lot more active just, like, physically.
05:08Like, he loves to hit a fungo,
05:10loves to be out there and play catch.
05:11And, you know, I think we've seen some communication things at times,
05:15and not just the visible ones,
05:17but things that have happened behind the scenes.
05:19And I think that's a work in progress as well.
05:22But it was always going to be the most difficult part of this year for him
05:25was that he's learning all of this.
05:27And, like, even when you see some of the things that have happened
05:30with, like, ejections and some of the questions he's asked of umpires,
05:33a lot of times these are things that they are learning on the fly.
05:36And so I think he's also trying to figure out how to –
05:40look, it's just different.
05:41Like, he's been dealing with 19-, 20-year-olds his whole career.
05:44It's just different to come in here
05:45and be dealing with guys who are veterans, guys who are all-stars.
05:50So I do think that's been part of this learning process as well.
05:52I just kind of go back to, like,
05:54I think you could point to a lot of things he probably wishes he had done differently
05:57and probably in all aspects of this job.
06:00But I also just don't think it's fair to, like,
06:04keep too much on his shoulders.
06:06Alex Pavlovich, NBC Sports Bay Area.
06:08Alex, best guess, what do you think this roster looks like a few days into August?
06:16Well, you know, Luis Arias and Robbie Ray are, like,
06:19the most tailor-made trade candidates you could possibly have.
06:22And they're in a much different spot than they've been in in previous years.
06:26Like, there's no ambiguity here.
06:27There's no wait until July 27th and see where you stand.
06:32Like, they've been the same team the entire season.
06:34And they have not at any point shown that there's a run coming.
06:39We joked on the podcast today, maybe they'll win every game until the trade deadline.
06:42And that changes things.
06:43But, like, short of that, like, this is not like last year where all of a sudden Buster's
06:47watching them for a few days against, I think it was the Pirates and Mets during that homestand.
06:51And you go, like, oh, it's time to sell.
06:53So, I think this is pretty clear.
06:55And I also think the fascinating thing is, like, look at the American League standings.
06:59Everybody in the American League is still in it.
07:01And you look at the National League and basically everybody, you know, except for a few teams,
07:07is still in it as well.
07:08So, there's going to be some tough choices for other teams.
07:11And what that means is the Giants are set up really well to take advantage of a market where right
07:15now
07:15there's not a lot of sellers and there's not a lot of sellers with what they're offering.
07:19And I think there's the two obvious guys.
07:22I think they will have conversations on just about anybody except for, you know,
07:26Logan Webb, they've said, is off-limits.
07:28Bryce Eldridge, obviously, off-limits.
07:30I think they'll have plenty of conversations because, you know, to what Dib said, like,
07:34there's a lot to fix here.
07:36So, but I would just go back to Ray and Arias for the most part.
07:40Like, guys who are pending free agents, that's automatic for a team like this.
07:45And you have a couple of high-paid guys who are in no-trade clause situations, Adamas and Chapman.
07:53If they were even able to get those guys to waive it, what do you think the willingness is of
07:57ownership
07:58to pay down some of those salaries to help out with the trade?
08:04You know, it's tough.
08:05Like, it's not a question that certainly ownership here doesn't speak to the media a whole lot.
08:10And that's the case with most major league baseball owners.
08:13So, a question like that, I mean, you're just kind of guessing and reading between the lines of what other
08:17people tell you.
08:18I think they know that some tough decisions have to be made.
08:22And, like, you're not going to trade any of the big contract guys here without eating some of that money.
08:29So, they would have to do some of that.
08:31I think they'd probably be okay with that, just knowing that there's a lot they have to do before next
08:36opening day.
08:36And part of that is going to be eating some money.
08:38But it is much more complicated than, you know, people like to make it sound.
08:43And there's the no-trade clauses.
08:45There is a lot of money.
08:46It's $450 million for those three guys after this season.
08:50Like, just a tremendous amount of money owed to them.
08:54They're older.
08:55You know, Willie has had a rough year in a lot of respects.
08:59Devers has picked it up.
09:00He's the one guy who just on paper you look at and go, you could put him on 15 teams
09:04around this league.
09:05He's also owed, like, two week 11, I think, after this year.
09:08So, it's really, really complicated.
09:10I tend to think those trades are off-season trades, more than trade deadline trades.
09:15And especially with some of the struggles they've had in the first half.
09:18And, you know, Matt Chapman is the one guy who I think would appeal to a lot of contenders
09:23just because you stick him at third base and you know what you're going to get.
09:26And it's not nearly as much money.
09:27But he's been hurt.
09:29You know, he's played hurt most of the first half.
09:31And he's not going to be ready on Friday.
09:33So, that's complicating as well.
09:35Alex, what if we asked it this way?
09:37Like, what do you think right now the Giants' organizational appetite is for keeping Bryce Eldridge
09:44and Rafi Devers on the team together long-term?
09:50Yeah.
09:50You know, they've always said that that's, like, part of the plan, that they love the idea.
09:55I do think, for me, one of the biggest things I've picked up over the last two, three weeks,
09:59and I know it was hard to watch at times, Bryce Eldridge looked really solid at first base.
10:05It's a good at first base.
10:06And, you know, you see, if you watch him, like, if you saw him last September work out,
10:12if you saw him this spring in games and you see him now, he has come a long way defensively
10:17at first base.
10:19And it's just one of their biggest questions, whether it's this deadline or in the offseason,
10:23is two of their best young players, their two best young players, Eldridge and Schmidt,
10:28are blocked at their natural position.
10:30And they kind of have to figure that out.
10:32So I do think it's changed from where it was maybe six months ago where there was a lot of,
10:37yeah, no, Devers and Eldridge, those two are fine.
10:40It's a great problem to have if you have those guys hitting 70 combined homers.
10:44I do think there's more of a sense that, like, Eldridge has been so good so fast in a lot
10:49of ways
10:49that you kind of just got to turn first base over to him at some point.
10:53And we also know Raphael Devers likes to play the field.
10:57So ultimately, I think they're going to have to figure that out and not just ride this out.
11:02But again, like, there's so much money left on that deal that I don't think that's really a trade deadline
11:07conversation.
11:09Is that part of the bigger challenge for the team is Adamas wants to play every day
11:13and Chapman, same thing, win healthy and Devers wants to play the field.
11:16Does that become position preventative going forward to have three guys who want to be everyday guys in the field?
11:24Yeah, I think the stickiest thing they have to figure out long term is, you know,
11:29their best future, I believe, is with Bryce Eldridge at first base
11:33and just stick him there and stick him there for the next decade.
11:35And I think he checks every box that you would want from somebody.
11:40He has said he wants to be the face of the franchise,
11:42and I think he's done everything you'd want from somebody who looks like he can be that guy.
11:46And then you see what Casey's capable of at third base,
11:49and I also think he would be pretty good at second base if you put him there.
11:52So these guys are blocked, and that's not even to speak of, you know,
11:57all these guys coming through the system who are middle infielders,
12:00and you have to figure out where Adamas fits in.
12:03The defensive numbers haven't been great this year.
12:05So I do think that's their biggest long-term question is figuring out those three
12:10and positionally as well figuring out what you do with them.
12:13Because it just, the roster right now just doesn't make a whole lot of sense moving forward.
12:20Alex, Buster hasn't been kind of the most forthcoming, I'd say, with a lot of things this year.
12:26But I wonder if you've got any sense for sort of how he's feeling about some of the decisions he's
12:32made.
12:32In other words, like, what do you think that he's learned?
12:36What do you think that he would do differently this year if he had to do it over again?
12:42You know, I think this, from talking to people who have gotten to know him,
12:46I think this has been a very frustrating year for him.
12:48I mean, that's obvious.
12:49But he does take this really, really hard.
12:53And I think it's probably been humbling in a lot of ways for the front office
12:57because they did have what has been rightfully viewed as a bad offseason.
13:02And it was, they had a real chance to, you know, get going in the right direction.
13:07They felt really good about Tony.
13:09And I've written this and said this other places, but, like, they were telling agents
13:13they thought the staff was going to add wins and add four or five wins to where they were at
13:18and that that can make a big difference.
13:20And not only, you know, has that not happened, but you go backwards just in every respect.
13:25So I think this has probably been a humbling year for everybody.
13:28But I kind of go back to your first question.
13:32Like, Buster didn't walk away, you know, after 18 or 19 or come back in 22 to see what it
13:40looked like
13:40and then walk away after a disappointing year.
13:42He walked away after an NL West title.
13:44Like, I think he's somebody who's competitive and this is something he wanted to try.
13:49And I would bet he's pretty anxious to get to this trade deadline.
13:53And you get to the deadline and you probably won't add a lot to the Major League Club,
13:57but looking forward to next year.
13:59Alex, what do you think about the prospects in AAA pitching-wise who can come up and be starting pitchers
14:05so you don't have to go out and get mediocre pitchers on the market next year?
14:11Well, for me, that's the biggest question of the deadline.
14:13You know, they did a good job in the draft of adding pitching, but it's pretty far away.
14:18Even Jackson Flora, like, you're talking at least a year from now, most likely.
14:23I think their biggest question, and I've talked to Buster about this, and I know he kind of feels the
14:28same way,
14:29is adding pitching at the big league level, at the AAA level, at AA, you know, kind of like what
14:35they did last year,
14:36getting somebody like a Blade Tidwell in a trade.
14:39I know we haven't seen him a whole lot, but he's somebody who could be part of the bullpen solution
14:43going forward.
14:44So, for me, that's really in every trade.
14:47It's weird to say about the Giants, but, like, their big league lineup is set in a lot of ways,
14:51and positionally in the minor leagues, like, they have a ton of position players coming,
14:56and even guys like Dakota Jordan and Bo Davidson and those guys who are being promoted this week,
15:02they really need to add pitching depth, and not just rotation depth,
15:05but they need to add guys who can go into camp next year, and if they're not on this team,
15:09they can do what Landon Roop did two years ago and be in the bullpen and be part of that
15:13solution.
15:14So, that's the biggest question for me going into the deadline, like,
15:17how much pitching can you get back in these trades, and then also, what can you clear,
15:21and are you clearing out more guys other than a Robbie Ray in opening spots
15:25so Carson Wisenhunt can start every five days, and you figure out who he is.
15:30Blade Tidwell can come back, and you figure out who he is.
15:32Like, they really need to spend the next two months figuring out who is part of that
15:382027 pitching staff, because there's not a whole lot of guys you feel are locked in.
15:43There's some obvious guys right now, and Randy Rodriguez will be back,
15:45but there's not a whole lot that, it's not a long list of guys that I think you would say
15:50are locked in to opening day next year.
15:53Al, are you going to Seattle?
15:56I am.
15:57Okay, well, have a safe trip, and enjoy the rest of the break,
16:01and thanks for doing this, man.
16:03I will, anytime, guys.
16:04Okay.
16:05Anytime, Al.
16:06Alex.
16:07NBC Sports Bay Area.
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